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Other NFL teams/games 2024

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ThePAMan

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #660 on: May 20, 2024, 05:53:54 PM »
From my perspective I was reasonable on Fields. If someone thinks I was too protective of him, I get that argument, but I don’t really agree with it completely. Maybe I was. Again, with the fucking car and completely missing the point.

LOL. This is great.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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spark mandrill

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #661 on: May 20, 2024, 05:54:20 PM »
From my perspective I was reasonable on Fields. If someone thinks I was too protective of him, I get that argument, but I don’t really agree with it completely. Maybe I was. Again, with the fucking car and completely missing the point.

In what way does it miss the point?

Your "red flag" is that since he got money and bought a nice car, maybe the money went to his head?  Maybe he's got a huge ego, and isn't coachable, and thinks he's bigger than the team?

But the concern - the only evidence that you're using to justify that 'red flag' - is "he bought a nice car".

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ThePAMan

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #662 on: May 20, 2024, 05:56:46 PM »
Guy completely and absolutely wrong about Fields thinks he was reasonable about Fields (and Williams).
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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Reacher

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #663 on: May 20, 2024, 05:57:20 PM »
I’m “losing this argument” because this place has four or five Fields haters and one Fields supporter. Congrats on “identifying” the dynamics of this debate. I’ve been arguing minority opinions here for 20 years. This isn’t new.
Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

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spark mandrill

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #664 on: May 20, 2024, 06:03:44 PM »
Here's a hot Caleb/Fields take that I know Tempo will like.  And let me preface this by repeating something I've said all year:  there are NO "can't miss" prospects.  Caleb isn't one, MHJ isn't one, Andrew Luck wasn't one.  The day of the draft, no one REALLY knows.  Caleb could ABSOLUTELY be mediocre or worse, no question about it.  I think he has a really high ceiling, but I've obviously never seen him play any NFL football and until he does, no one really knows what the Bears have in him.

But I think if the Bears (specifically them) didn't have the first pick this year - a major-market team with a massive, passionate fanbase that's NEVER had a great QB, who recently drafted a QB who has shown flashes and highlight plays but never put it together to be an actually good quarterback with any consistency - that Caleb's "red flags" would be almost entirely a non-issue and there'd be a near-consensus that he was one of the better prospects of the last 25 years.  That doesn't mean they'd be right, but I think the Fields situation definitely contributed to suddenly there being some big unmissable 'red flags' (most of which are actually non-issues) in a prospect who would've gone #1 last year if he'd been eligible and had another monster statistical season with a worse team.

The flip side of that is that if the Bears didn't have a top-5 pick this year and ONLY picked at 9, there'd definitely be a whole lot less controversy about maybe picking up Fields' Y5 option and giving him another chance with a better core before you try to draft over him next year (or the year after).  Fields was mostly mediocre, not bad - and obviously, electric with his legs.  Personally I would much prefer an electric arm (and I think it's telling that even like Lamar hasn't broken through in the playoffs - the best teams seem to consistently be the ones with great QBs who can sling it) - but Fields' legs are definitely a weapon and if they went into next season with DJ, Allen, Odunze, and Fields there'd be at least moderate excitement in Chicago.  I am not convinced Fields would be great even with that kind of core, and I think their ceiling and situation are much much better in reality than they'd be in that "what-if".

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spark mandrill

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #665 on: May 20, 2024, 06:06:21 PM »
I’m “losing this argument” because this place has four or five Fields haters and one Fields supporter. Congrats on “identifying” the dynamics of this debate. I’ve been arguing minority opinions here for 20 years. This isn’t new.

You're not losing because you're outnumbered.

You're outnumbered because you are dug in on a losing argument.

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Reacher

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #666 on: May 20, 2024, 06:20:15 PM »
If I were as much of a Caleb hater as everyone says I am, you’d be able to find posts me of saying not to draft him. Once Fields was traded, I was all-in on Caleb. That’s not to say I was super enthused about everything I saw. But he was no doubt the pick, and I never said anything otherwise.
Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

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Reacher

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #667 on: May 20, 2024, 06:20:58 PM »
You're not losing because you're outnumbered.

You're outnumbered because you are dug in on a losing argument.

You bet. I’m losing because JJ and PAMan are infallible in their football opinions.
Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

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spark mandrill

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #668 on: May 20, 2024, 06:28:11 PM »
You bet. I’m losing because JJ and PAMan are infallible in their football opinions.

The only thing it's missing is "amirite?"

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Reacher

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #669 on: May 20, 2024, 06:36:38 PM »
The only thing it's missing is "amirite?"

Fer sure.
Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

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Reacher

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #670 on: May 20, 2024, 06:37:46 PM »
If I were as much of a Caleb hater as everyone says I am, you’d be able to find posts me of saying not to draft him. Once Fields was traded, I was all-in on Caleb. That’s not to say I was super enthused about everything I saw. But he was no doubt the pick, and I never said anything otherwise.

Anyone gonna touch this? OMG, he had observations and possible critiques of Caleb Williams! HATER!
Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

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spark mandrill

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #671 on: May 20, 2024, 06:46:18 PM »
Anyone gonna touch this? OMG, he had observations and possible critiques of Caleb Williams! HATER!

After defending the last guy from any and all criticism, no matter how valid, you have consistently pretty stretchy criticisms of his successor.  Doesn't take a rocket surgeon.

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Reacher

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #672 on: May 20, 2024, 06:49:21 PM »
After defending the last guy from any and all criticism, no matter how valid, you have consistently pretty stretchy criticisms of his successor.  Doesn't take a rocket surgeon.

I didn’t “defend him from any and all” criticism. I said there was plenty to go around (including him), and I felt he was likely to still get better. Learn to fucking read.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2024, 06:51:15 PM by Tempo34 »
Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

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Reacher

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #673 on: May 20, 2024, 06:50:46 PM »
Did I scrutinize Caleb intensely? Yes. Am I remorseful? No. At the end of the day my opinion or insight doesn’t make a difference.
Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.

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Reacher

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Re: Other NFL teams/games 2024
« Reply #674 on: May 20, 2024, 06:53:26 PM »
IIRC you once asked me to assign a percentage of the blame to Fields, and I think I put the number at 30-35%. That’s not “nothing,” and “blaming everyone but him.” He certainly played his role. But I don’t think he was the biggest problem. His problem was he wasn’t Patrick Mahomes.
Wanting America to be better is not America-hating, it’s patriotism.