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TSJ suspended charged with rape

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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #525 on: January 21, 2024, 09:18:16 AM »
Nope.
You decided that Whitman didn't handle this correctly, that he had something in writing indicating that charges had been filed and he wasn't forthcoming.

Imo, the UIUC shit lawyers should have followed OSCR policy and kept the decision out of the hands of the man who said he had nothing in writing and was following the process used in other instances.
If the UIUC police didn't give Whitman the charging documents that apparently they didn't have, I'm not sure that Whitman should be your target. Were the charges under seal from Dec 5 to the end of the month ?
If the last information that FOIA shows is an Oct 24 opinion that anticipated that charges would occur, wtf would you expect Whitman to do if he was given no updates until the end of Dec ?

"Tuesday, Dec. 5 — Shannon charging document filed in Douglas County, KS. It appears as though there is no mention of the document being filed in the FOIA requests – by DIA officials or by UIPD."

Nonetheless, the judge granting the TRO held that OSCR policy should have been the deciding factor. The judge is saying that Whitman was put in a position that he shouldn't have been.

If you want to hold Whitman accountable, maybe it should be that he should have told the university to go fuck themselves and it is an OSCR decision, and not his.

Guenther Jr  got up there and said they had zero clue and nothing in writing about whether the case against Shannon would be proceeding. We have an email showing that the cop told the cop, whose job it appears was to find out what was going on in Kansas, that he anticipated the DA was proceeding if they had not done so already. Sure looks like they had something in writing, before the DNA sample was even taken.
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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #526 on: January 21, 2024, 09:22:18 AM »
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39345062/ui-police-aware-lawrence-investigation-3-months-suspending-shannon-jr   

National media investigating the UI response now.

They had the cops serve as an intermediary and now claim they couldn't get documents and info from the cops. Yeah, lot of back peddling going on here.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #527 on: January 21, 2024, 09:51:28 AM »
I thought the judge entered a TRO. That usually lasts 10 days. Then there is a preliminary injunction hearing where there is testimony, etc.

Did the order actually grant a preliminary injunction and a TRO? I haven't been able to read the order yet

Reading the order on my phone which is not ideal.

Nichi is correct! Judge explains in her first footnote why  she could enter a PI at this time.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Custard

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #528 on: January 21, 2024, 10:03:26 AM »
The DIA’s policy had been deployed regularly and its authority never challenged. Then along comes a star NIL athlete who has the means and community support to retain multiple good attorneys. Those attorneys then find a legal loophole and get TSJ back on the floor NOW, AND give the UI plausible deniability. Naturally The PAMan is MAD ABOUT IT.

Had he been put in OSCR from the get go he’d almost certainly be gone until legal resolution occurred and never play here again. Those wishing for OSCR to have been in play are de facto rooting for never seeing TSJ play for UI again barring dropping of charges.

At least with the DIA’s three person panel there was a chance he could come back without legal resolution.

Why do I have the feeling that if the UI had an ironclad policy in place to keep TSJ off the floor and avoid all this drama that ThePAMan would be bitching about how we are small potatoes and actual big time schools would have found a way to keep their best players on the court?
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Lkdog

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #529 on: January 21, 2024, 10:14:19 AM »
Nobody has answered my simple question.

How many players do we know of have continued to play in intercollegiate athletics anywhere while out on bond for a felony rape charge, or any felony charge?




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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #530 on: January 21, 2024, 10:34:28 AM »
The DIA’s policy had been deployed regularly and its authority never challenged. Then along comes a star NIL athlete who has the means and community support to retain multiple good attorneys. Those attorneys then find a legal loophole and get TSJ back on the floor NOW, AND give the UI plausible deniability. Naturally The PAMan is MAD ABOUT IT.

Had he been put in OSCR from the get go he’d almost certainly be gone until legal resolution occurred and never play here again. Those wishing for OSCR to have been in play are de facto rooting for never seeing TSJ play for UI again barring dropping of charges.

At least with the DIA’s three person panel there was a chance he could come back without legal resolution.

Why do I have the feeling that if the UI had an ironclad policy in place to keep TSJ off the floor and avoid all this drama that ThePAMan would be bitching about how we are small potatoes and actual big time schools would have found a way to keep their best players on the court?
If they are going to do it, do it right. My bitch was that Guenther Jr. was full of shit in the press conference while you, and others, were impressed with him and  it. Judge just ruled he was full of shit. The lawyers did not find a "loophole." DIA, and the university, just fucked it up royal by not following the university's policies.

If you read the opinion, the judge, pp.23-24, noted that the university's policies for handling these types of claims outside of Title IX were to be followed as part of the DIA process that was explained by Guenther Jr. in the press conference.

"The sensible reading of this means that the OSCR policy—which outlines the
University’s regulations for handling allegations of student sexual misconduct—would
apply prior to the DIA’s interim suspension."

Pp 28-30, she notes the Purdue case, where the ROTC guy was provided notice of the allegations against him but not provided any evidence supporting the allegations.

"Of particular concern to the [Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals]
 was the fact that the committee found the complainant more credible than the plaintiff in
a case that “boiled down to a he said/she said” without ever receiving a statement written
by the complainant herself, much less a sworn statement, or asking the complainant any
questions during the investigation. Id. at 664. The Seventh Circuit reasonably questioned
how the committee could have conducted an evaluation of credibility under those
circumstances.
 
The same holds true in this case...."

"Just as in Purdue, Plaintiff was given notice and the opportunity to submit evidence
 but only in the form of a written statement and documents. He was unaware of the
alleged victim’s identity and there is no indication that he was given an opportunity to
view the evidence against him. In reliance on the DIA policy, the conduct panel did not
investigate the alleged offense, consider a written statement by the complainant, or have
the ability to weigh the credibility of evidence in light of the nature of the allegation.
 Plaintiff was not allowed in the hearing and no recording or transcript of the proceeding
was provided to him. The conduct panel is not required to submit a written decision or
findings of fact for Plaintiff to ascertain the basis for the interim decision, and there is no
avenue to appeal an interim decision.

Conversely, the procedural safeguards awarded to Plaintiff under the OSCR
policy do not appear fundamentally unfair as written. The policy provides adequate
safeguards through detailed notice, levels of review, an actual investigation, disclosure
of evidence, witness participation, a defined burden of proof, and a written decision."

At the end, p.30, "Defendants are enjoined from suspending Plaintiff from the basketball team without at least affording him the protections of the OSCR Policy."

Nothing stopping them from going back and doing this right, instead of whatever shortcut process Gunther Jr. cooked up here.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #531 on: January 21, 2024, 10:37:07 AM »
Nobody has answered my simple question.

How many players do we know of have continued to play in intercollegiate athletics anywhere while out on bond for a felony rape charge, or any felony charge?

No clue. How many schools provided Due Process, and followed their policies to do so, when suspending  athletes under these conditions?
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #532 on: January 21, 2024, 10:37:18 AM »
Nobody has answered my simple question.

How many players do we know of have continued to play in intercollegiate athletics anywhere while out on bond for a felony rape charge, or any felony charge?

I do not know of any.  Every college athlete I could find who was charged with a felony was indefinitely suspended before the trial was concluded.

Kobe played a season with a pending SA charge in the NBA.

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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #533 on: January 21, 2024, 10:38:11 AM »
Apologies for BS formatting issues....
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #534 on: January 21, 2024, 10:46:37 AM »
The DIA’s policy had been deployed regularly and its authority never challenged. Then along comes a star NIL athlete who has the means and community support to retain multiple good attorneys. Those attorneys then find a legal loophole and get TSJ back on the floor NOW, AND give the UI plausible deniability. Naturally The PAMan is MAD ABOUT IT.

Had he been put in OSCR from the get go he’d almost certainly be gone until legal resolution occurred and never play here again. Those wishing for OSCR to have been in play are de facto rooting for never seeing TSJ play for UI again barring dropping of charges.

At least with the DIA’s three person panel there was a chance he could come back without legal resolution.

Why do I have the feeling that if the UI had an ironclad policy in place to keep TSJ off the floor and avoid all this drama that ThePAMan would be bitching about how we are small potatoes and actual big time schools would have found a way to keep their best players on the court?
I'm not sure that anyone here wants OSCR to be put in play. Pointing out that the reason TSJ can play today because the university did not follow OSCR policy is on the university.
I believe the TRO also called for expedited discovery. Without the discovery, I'm not sure that the university will move forward considering the bind that they put themselves in.

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Custard

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #535 on: January 21, 2024, 12:33:48 PM »
The insinuation here is incompetence but I think what happened in the end was actually a pretty brilliant workaround for a rather unusual case.

Had there been decent evidence he forcibly raped someone in the traditional sense, people would feel differently. Given the nature of this case and with the university being sympathetic to TSJ the entire time, I don’t think the exposure to the university is really that high.
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Judge Judy

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #536 on: January 21, 2024, 01:11:19 PM »
Nobody has answered my simple question.

How many players do we know of have continued to play in intercollegiate athletics anywhere while out on bond for a felony rape charge, or any felony charge?

No, but here’s an example of what happened in exactly the opposite situation Illinois did…

Don’t think that’s a great thing to do to an innocent person.

https://x.com/thecardconnect/status/1749144823951442082?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Because FOX News told me so…

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Lkdog

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #537 on: January 21, 2024, 02:10:35 PM »
No, but here’s an example of what happened in exactly the opposite situation Illinois did…

Don’t think that’s a great thing to do to an innocent person.

https://x.com/thecardconnect/status/1749144823951442082?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

TSj maintained full scholarship privileges and was not kicked off the team or out of school.

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Judge Judy

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #538 on: January 21, 2024, 02:11:44 PM »
TSj maintained full scholarship privileges and was not kicked off the team or out of school.

Exactly. So you want him to be treated like the example I showed?! Is that better look for the university?!
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #539 on: January 21, 2024, 02:24:31 PM »
The insinuation here is incompetence but I think what happened in the end was actually a pretty brilliant workaround for a rather unusual case.

I'm not sure this would have been their original intent but given some information and time to assess the situation it may be the case.