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THE JFC Thread!

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #465 on: December 03, 2023, 12:41:57 PM »
Quote from: Custard on December 03, 2023, 12:35:04 PM
I mostly agree with spark’s assessment but will side with Tempo on the idea that the 150k car could be construed as at least a little bit of questionable decision making. He’s managed to play himself out of “best QB prospect since ______ consideration” to people having questions about him even being the best QB prospect in this draft. I’m sure he’s made some really good coin in the NIL game, but he hasn’t exactly made the kind of generational life changing money that comes with a big guaranteed NFL contract. Simply from an optics perspective it would probably be better to bank the NIL money and drive something a little more modest. And I can see it being a little bit of a red flag to NFL people seeking to examine the decision making of Caleb and the people around him. It’s not fair to hold Williams accountable for all the other athletes that recklessly blew through their money and ended up flat broke by 30, but it’s silly not to think stuff like that doesn’t get taken into consideration in the court of public opinion and by decision makers at franchises.

Reasonable. Factor in it’s been said he wants partial ownership in the franchise that drafts him (which he has not denied), paints expletives on his fingernails, refuses to do press conferences, apparently refused to shake hands with opposing players; it makes you question his maturity and professionalism. If I’m drafting a QB #1 overall, I don’t want to have to ponder his professionalism long and hard. Not saying he’s not worthy, or won’t be great, but the scrutiny is fair.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #466 on: December 03, 2023, 01:00:07 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 12:29:01 PM
Spark, when I made that observation, I even stated “maybe this is a ME thing,” so I allowed for the fact that perhaps I was reading too far into things. But to pretend like there aren’t multiple red flags on Caleb Williams that have popped up recently is head in the sand shit.

As long as you take stupid shit like "he cried when he lost a big game at 19" or "he bought a nice car" as red flags, then sure.

Most reasonable people don't though.

Again, there's a reason you nearly exclusively see those "criticisms" from Bears fans who are invested in keeping Justin Fields another year.  That isn't a coincidence.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #467 on: December 03, 2023, 01:00:49 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 03, 2023, 01:00:07 PM
As long as you take stupid shit like "he cried when he lost a big game at 19" or "he bought a nice car" as red flags, then sure.

Most reasonable people don't though.

Again, there's a reason you nearly exclusively see those "criticisms" from Bears fans who are invested in keeping Justin Fields another year.  That isn't a coincidence.

I didn’t even cite the crying in that post.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #468 on: December 03, 2023, 01:01:08 PM »
Quote from: Custard on December 03, 2023, 12:35:04 PM
I mostly agree with spark’s assessment but will side with Tempo on the idea that the 150k car could be construed as at least a little bit of questionable decision making. He’s managed to play himself out of “best QB prospect since ______ consideration” to people having questions about him even being the best QB prospect in this draft. I’m sure he’s made some really good coin in the NIL game, but he hasn’t exactly made the kind of generational life changing money that comes with a big guaranteed NFL contract. Simply from an optics perspective it would probably be better to bank the NIL money and drive something a little more modest. And I can see it being a little bit of a red flag to NFL people seeking to examine the decision making of Caleb and the people around him. It’s not fair to hold Williams accountable for all the other athletes that recklessly blew through their money and ended up flat broke by 30, but it’s silly not to think stuff like that doesn’t get taken into consideration in the court of public opinion and by decision makers at franchises.

There is zero difference between a guy who buys a nice car with his NIL money and a guy who buys a nice car with his NFL signing bonus.

Not one bit of difference whatsoever.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #469 on: December 03, 2023, 01:03:30 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 03, 2023, 01:01:08 PM
There is zero difference between a guy who buys a nice car with his NIL money and a guy who buys a nice car with his NFL signing bonus.

Not one bit of difference whatsoever.

What about the other off the field stuff? Again, I said from the get-go maybe I’m trying too hard
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #470 on: December 03, 2023, 01:03:54 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:00:49 PM
I didn’t even cite the crying in that post.

There's simply no doubt you have cited it previously.  You've nailed all the other Reddit meathead criticisms of Caleb Williams thusfar, I struggle to believe you don't buy that one too.

He got hammered on the Bears subreddit for sitting and watching as his defense let the opponent drive down and lose him a game - he didn't care enough.

Two weeks later he got hammered by the exact same people for crying with his parents after his defense let the opponent drive down and lose him a game, ending their chances at a title - he cared too much.

You're criticizing him for spending his money on a nice car.

These are not serious criticisms from serious people.  They're desperate, flailing criticisms from people who badly want the Bears to pass on him to keep Justin Fields, and that's all they are.  They're the kind of shit you talk about when you don't have any real objective data that supports the conclusion you want to be true.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #471 on: December 03, 2023, 01:05:43 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:03:30 PM
What about the other off the field stuff? Again, I said from the get-go maybe I’m trying too hard

Which?

The rumor - unsourced - that he wants ownership in a franchise doesn't bother me all that much, even if it's true.  I wouldn't blame him for wanting ownership in an NFL franchise.

There's plenty of evidence that his teammates and coaching staff think very highly of him and his leadership on and off the field, right?  These criticisms aren't coming from people who know him and have been around him.  They're coming from Bears fans who don't want to draft him.

Whoever picks after the Bears is surely hoping they talk themselves into passing on the QBs.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #472 on: December 03, 2023, 01:06:01 PM »
Get OFf OF THE CAR. Get OFF of the CRYING which I didn’t cite. What about the other stuff?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #473 on: December 03, 2023, 01:07:21 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:06:01 PM
Get OFf OF THE CAR. Get OFF of the CRYING which I didn’t cite. What about the other stuff?

I don't care about the unsourced rumor regarding franchise ownership.  I care about how he plays on the field.  What matters is whether he can become an elite quarterback in the NFL.

Which other off-field stuff?  If they're even half as stretchy as what you've brought so far, you can be sure I don't care about it.  He didn't get in a car accident and leave someone he knew to die or anything.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #474 on: December 03, 2023, 01:09:46 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 03, 2023, 01:07:21 PM
I don't care about the unsourced rumor regarding franchise ownership.  I care about how he plays on the field.  What matters is whether he can become an elite quarterback in the NFL.

Which other off-field stuff?  If they're even half as stretchy as what you've brought so far, you can be sure I don't care about it.  He didn't get in a car accident and leave someone he knew to die or anything.

So you’re ignoring the possible lack of sportsmanship and professionalism, shutting down of pressers, rumors that have not been denied. Noted.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #475 on: December 03, 2023, 01:10:34 PM »
I see a list you cited earlier.

He paints a bad word on his fingernails for a big game.

He doesn't like talking to the press.

You've heard, but can't confirm, that he wouldn't shake some opponent's hand.

Again, these aren't particularly damning criticisms.  That you have even resorted to this sort of stretchy nonsense is telling as to your state of mind.  You've already decided, based on stupid shit like this.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #476 on: December 03, 2023, 01:12:30 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:09:46 PM
So you’re ignoring the possible lack of sportsmanship and professionalism, shutting down of pressers, rumors that have not been denied. Noted.

I think many great NFL players have said a bad word about an opponent, refused to shake their hands, not been thrilled to do press conferences, and worse.  I don't think they're the sort of thing that are held against other players, and I think the sole reason you're making such a huge deal of them is that you like Justin Fields so much and desperately do not want the Bears to take a new QB in the draft.

Let's put it this way: last year you were upset that the Bears did not take Jalen Carter with their pick, and I don't think there's a reasonable accounting of 'off field, character issues' that says Caleb Williams' are worse than Jalen Carter's.

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #477 on: December 03, 2023, 01:17:14 PM »
Ok, so you’re willing to overlook possible red flags when evaluating a franchise QB. Glad you aren’t the GM.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #478 on: December 03, 2023, 01:21:40 PM »
FTR, I don’t care much about the crying. But it is fun to make fun of him for it.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #479 on: December 03, 2023, 01:23:17 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:17:14 PM
Ok, so you’re willing to overlook possible red flags when evaluating a franchise QB. Glad you aren’t the GM.

Is not shaking your opponent's hand a red flag in a QB?

You'd pass on Tom Brady?  Lamar Jackson?  Both have openly refused to shake an opponent's hand in the NFL, Brady at least three or four times.

It's just not a thing.  It has no bearing on whether a guy can be your franchise quarterback at all.  I would make my decision based on the attributes that DO have bearing on whether a guy can be my franchise quarterback.

You're here talking about his car and some unsourced rumor about his agent and him painting a bad word on his fingernails.
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