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WTF is up with this Clown World?

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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2250 on: October 21, 2022, 12:37:02 AM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on October 20, 2022, 07:31:59 PM
3 words for you California Prop 13 Boy:  property fucking taxes. I know it is tough for someone not living in IL, but it is how the schools and worthless shit like township government is funded here. Like I said, as they didn't prevent the local school board, library board, park district, from jacking up your taxes, you were not going to get enough support for this. No one trusted these fucks to do that.

Prop 13 is a disaster.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2251 on: October 21, 2022, 01:28:58 AM »
The taxes in Illinois are plenty high enough. But hey, tax and spend Democrats gonna tax and spend. The way things are going they won’t have enough actual earners to tax to death at some point. It’s telling that the retired guys with grown children here are the ones advocating for overall higher taxes.

The property taxes are 1/3 (dollar for dollar on property value) here compared to Illinois. And we lived in a rural area in IL and a new, very nice suburban area here. State income taxes are essentially half. The roads and public schools are nice. Budgets are balanced. Middle wage earners live very well here compared to back home because they get to keep a lot more of their money.

I’ll keep believing my own eyes rather than articles arguing for more of the same shitty government and politics that got Illinois into this mess in the first place.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2252 on: October 21, 2022, 07:27:50 AM »
Quote from: alum74 on October 20, 2022, 11:24:55 PM
When Rauner started to slash funding for social services, high-ed, local governments, schools, infrastructure, etc., the fight was on.  He managed to unite the various caucuses within the Democratic party.  Madigan and Cullerton barely had to lift a finger to organize the opposition.  Their existence didn’t even matter.  What happened to the labor movement in Wisconsin and Indiana wasn’t going to work in a state like Illinois, with its long and proud history of collective bargaining and labor organizing.   

Rauner should have played the long game.  First stop the hemorrhaging and splintering within the GOP party organization.  Recruit better candidates to run for office.  Work to elect more Republicans to the House and take control of the Senate.  That would have given him leverage to seek labor reforms down the road, probably in his second term.  Instead, he decided to blow up the state budgetary process in his first two years of office.   

Here’s another thing.  As you know, not all labor unions are in bed with the Democrats.  The construction trades, teamsters, electrical workers, plumbers and public safety unions tend to be more conservative and will support moderate Republicans.  Rauner’s sledgehammer approach left these unions with no place to go but to form an alliance with the AFL-CIO, AFSCME, UAW and Illinois Federation of Teachers.   

And we all know the rest of the story.

We certainly know the rest of the story.
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Chickengeorge

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2253 on: October 21, 2022, 08:52:16 AM »
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Custard

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2254 on: October 21, 2022, 09:20:59 AM »
Holy shit, 8.53% state income tax rate over 78k? 🤯🤯🤯

The flat tax looks like a huge win for all but the very lowest earners, and not taxing retirement income is great as well.

I really hate being double taxed, but it’s pretty much unavoidable.
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Chickengeorge

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2255 on: October 21, 2022, 10:19:39 AM »
Quote from: Custard on October 21, 2022, 09:20:59 AM
Holy shit, 8.53% state income tax rate over 78k? 🤯🤯🤯

The flat tax looks like a huge win for all but the very lowest earners, and not taxing retirement income is great as well.

I really hate being double taxed, but it’s pretty much unavoidable.

Yeah it's pretty bad over there right now. Also, I think their vehicle registration is fairly high as well, based on the year or value of the vehicle. That was the one good thing we had going in Illinois until fatfuckface came in and jacked up vehicle registrations. What was the biggest joke was small trailers. Used to be $18 a year, and then they added $100 to that. I just stopped paying it. Fuck em. I believe they did get it back down to $36 but that is still doubling it. I've yet to get my registration current and probably won't. I don't think the county cops give a shit and the trailer sits for 95% of the year anyway.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2256 on: October 21, 2022, 12:44:41 PM »
Quote from: Custard on October 21, 2022, 09:20:59 AM
Holy shit, 8.53% state income tax rate over 78k? 🤯🤯🤯

The flat tax looks like a huge win for all but the very lowest earners, and not taxing retirement income is great as well.

I really hate being double taxed, but it’s pretty much unavoidable.

What are the property taxes like in Iowa?
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Chickengeorge

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2257 on: October 21, 2022, 01:07:38 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on October 21, 2022, 12:44:41 PM
What are the property taxes like in Iowa?

Not as bad as Illinois. About in the middle compared to the other states. Scott County Iowa (part of the Quad Cities), a $200k home would have about $2,700 in property taxes. That would easily be $1k more if it was in Rock Island County across the river.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2258 on: October 21, 2022, 01:14:27 PM »
Quote from: Custard on October 21, 2022, 01:28:58 AM
The taxes in Illinois are plenty high enough. But hey, tax and spend Democrats gonna tax and spend. The way things are going they won’t have enough actual earners to tax to death at some point. It’s telling that the retired guys with grown children here are the ones advocating for overall higher taxes.

The property taxes are 1/3 (dollar for dollar on property value) here compared to Illinois. And we lived in a rural area in IL and a new, very nice suburban area here. State income taxes are essentially half. The roads and public schools are nice. Budgets are balanced. Middle wage earners live very well here compared to back home because they get to keep a lot more of their money.

I’ll keep believing my own eyes rather than articles arguing for more of the same shitty government and politics that got Illinois into this mess in the first place.

Where is here?
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2259 on: October 21, 2022, 01:25:40 PM »
Quote from: Chickengeorge on October 21, 2022, 01:07:38 PM
Not as bad as Illinois. About in the middle compared to the other states. Scott County Iowa (part of the Quad Cities), a $200k home would have about $2,700 in property taxes. That would easily be $1k more if it was in Rock Island County across the river.

Whatever state you go to, everyone bitches about the tax that is "too high". The income tax in CA is too high. But our property taxes are low to begin with, and if you've owned your home for a while, they are ridiculously low. There are 3 million dollar homes in SF that have under 500 a year in property taxes, and your heirs can inherit that basis. It's a horrible ponzi scheme, older residents benefitted for their school districts at property tax assessments that matched the cost of living, newer residents now get underfunded schools. Or they get funded by sales taxes which also target younger demographics.

The only places that seem to avoid the argument that this tax or that tax is too high, are Florida and Nevada, because they rely on taxing non-residents. One thing that will be very interesting when DeSantis starts firing up his Presidential campaign, will the Florida budget in two years. No matter how much money the feds are throwing at Florida, their economy is going to be completely fucked. When you rely on tourist occupancy taxes, then you have a massive hurricane that destroys huge chunks of your tourist sector, those taxes vanish at a time you need to spend money to support rebuilding and services for people whose jobs won't return for 2-3 years. While Florida has no income tax, their property tax is roughly average, but it will be a lot easier for people in Ft Meyers Beach to say their home is uninhabitable than it was for Pritzker.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2260 on: October 21, 2022, 01:39:13 PM »
Quote from: Chickengeorge on October 21, 2022, 01:07:38 PM
Not as bad as Illinois. About in the middle compared to the other states. Scott County Iowa (part of the Quad Cities), a $200k home would have about $2,700 in property taxes. That would easily be $1k more if it was in Rock Island County across the river.

And maybe 4-5x higher in Cook County depending upon where you live? This is what I'm talking about Murph, and Nichi. People in IL are not going to approve higher income tax rates without a resulting change in the property tax system.

On one hand, I know where the property taxes are going - directly to the local schools. The problem is that this system sucks for poorer communities. They need to alter the property tax system in connection with a progressive income tax (and, probably add pension taxation) or else it is not going to work.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2261 on: October 21, 2022, 01:41:59 PM »
Quote from: Custard on October 21, 2022, 01:28:58 AM
It’s telling that the retired guys with grown children here are the ones advocating for overall higher taxes.

You forgot to mention and probably living on untaxed by the state pensions. Not that there is anything wrong with that other than being unsustainable.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2262 on: October 21, 2022, 02:04:12 PM »
I could see taxing retirement benefits over a certain amount, but propose that an the right wing will say see, they are raising taxes on poor seniors, just like we said. It would be a lie, but that is what Republicans do.

Right now they are a running an ad with Joe Rogan, saying if we reelect Pritzker we'll have a new no bail purge law with mandatory release for rapists, serial killers, child molesters, illegal aliens, and even people who commit voter fraud.
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2263 on: October 21, 2022, 02:06:04 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on October 21, 2022, 01:14:27 PM
Where is here?

Probably a red state that rakes in a lot of federal money.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2264 on: October 21, 2022, 02:08:49 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on October 21, 2022, 01:39:13 PM
And maybe 4-5x higher in Cook County depending upon where you live? This is what I'm talking about Murph, and Nichi. People in IL are not going to approve higher income tax rates without a resulting change in the property tax system.

On one hand, I know where the property taxes are going - directly to the local schools. The problem is that this system sucks for poorer communities. They need to alter the property tax system in connection with a progressive income tax (and, probably add pension taxation) or else it is not going to work.

I'm retired, but I'd vote for that. 
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