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WTF is up with this Clown World?

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2040 on: August 09, 2022, 11:11:15 AM »
Quote from: IlliniGolf on August 09, 2022, 10:45:54 AM
Trickle down economics !

The opposite. Trickle out and up.
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2041 on: August 09, 2022, 11:55:30 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on August 09, 2022, 11:09:50 AM
Republicans are making the idiotic argument that theoretical so-called indirect taxation violates Biden's promise not to raise income taxes on people making less than 400 thousand. One idiot calls it a lower and middle class tax increase.

They aren't even talking about indirect taxation in the technical sense. They appear to be saying that taxes on the rich trickle down. There is the old saying that businesses do not pay taxes, they collect them from their customers.

One counter is if you are taking that approach; then be consistent, also talk about the actual and potential indirect benefits.

Energy is affordable? Wow! High energy prices is one the biggest components of the 40 year high CPI. Reducing energy costs will reduce the CPI

You are really  going to argue that a tax increase on a rich corporation or a wealthy person is really a lower and middle class tax increase; then say a tax credit to middle class person is really a stimulus to megacap corp?

Making sure people can afford healthcare and prescription drugs is not inflationary. It helps keep inflation in check. The last thing we need is another round of soaring healthcare costs.

Deficit reduction might also help some with inflation.

It's questionable how much inflation is due to demand. We know it is global and related to post covid supply side disruptions.  Good news I have noticed the truck traffic around here is approaching 2019 levels.

I don't think there is much more  long-term the government can do beyond maintain the transportation, healthcare, education, and public safety infrastructures -- 3 out of 4 which Republicans see as wasteful spending.

I don't care what Republicans are saying they are just as retarded as the Democrats

government spending has actually been decreasing quite substantially already in 2022 and yet inflation keeps rampaging
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/report/deficit-tracker/

inflation will not decline until M2 declines which it has just barely started to do from April this year, who knows where it will go when the government is handing out another 700 billion to their cronies
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM2NS

and finally you really think EV manufacturers are going to lower prices of their cars because of a tax credit?  Guess what, all they do is charge $7500 more or whatever the tax credit is on the MSRP of their vehicles making them prohibitively more expensive and thus increasing inflation on those vehicles and money trickling up to shareholders due to increased revenues brought in...  remember when the model 3 was going to cost 35k?  well now its 50k and with tesla getting their tax credit back I would wager on it costing hmmm... around 57.5k next year
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alum74

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2042 on: August 09, 2022, 01:04:08 PM »
Very few Tesla cars will be eligible for tax credits under the Inflation Reduction Act.  The bill caps the price of eligible new EVs at $55,000 for most passenger cars and $80,000 for trucks, vans and SUVs.  Popular EV models eligible for the proposed rebates include Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Volkswagen ID.4, Ford Mach-E, and the upcoming Ford F-150 Lightning.

Also looks like the proposed legislation doesn’t apply to imported EVs and new EV buyers with an annual taxable income of greater than $150,000 ($300,000 for joint filers).

The $4,000 tax credit for buying a used EV got my attention.   
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2043 on: August 09, 2022, 01:47:17 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on August 09, 2022, 01:04:08 PM
Very few Tesla cars will be eligible for tax credits under the Inflation Reduction Act.  The bill caps the price of eligible new EVs at $55,000 for most passenger cars and $80,000 for trucks, vans and SUVs.  Popular EV models eligible for the proposed rebates include Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Volkswagen ID.4, Ford Mach-E, and the upcoming Ford F-150 Lightning.

Also looks like the proposed legislation doesn’t apply to imported EVs and new EV buyers with an annual taxable income of greater than $150,000 ($300,000 for joint filers).

The $4,000 tax credit for buying a used EV got my attention.

https://youtu.be/W45DRy7M1no?t=146

And boom goes the dynamite.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2044 on: August 09, 2022, 02:45:38 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on August 08, 2022, 11:57:13 PM
not gonna happen
never gonna happen
energy is already affordable
do megacap corporations companies really need stimulus for EV's?  last I checked they can't build them fast enough
medicare and ACA... if people have more free income to spend how does that reduce inflation you fucking idiot

So you are saying that Biden brought gas prices back down?
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2045 on: August 09, 2022, 02:48:22 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on August 09, 2022, 01:04:08 PM
Very few Tesla cars will be eligible for tax credits under the Inflation Reduction Act.  The bill caps the price of eligible new EVs at $55,000 for most passenger cars and $80,000 for trucks, vans and SUVs.  Popular EV models eligible for the proposed rebates include Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Volkswagen ID.4, Ford Mach-E, and the upcoming Ford F-150 Lightning.

Also looks like the proposed legislation doesn’t apply to imported EVs and new EV buyers with an annual taxable income of greater than $150,000 ($300,000 for joint filers).

The $4,000 tax credit for buying a used EV got my attention.

Aren't going to be able to find used EV. Or if you can, the battery will be drained enough that you'd want a new one you can't get
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2046 on: August 09, 2022, 03:46:13 PM »
https://electrek.co/2022/08/02/gm-offers-chevy-bolt-ev-owners-6000-if-promise-not-sue-battery-fire-recall-fiasco/

"Forever waive and release all claims, damages, or causes of action arising out of my Bolt vehicle, the battery defect, or the battery recalls."
« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 03:47:51 PM by Mn »
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2047 on: August 09, 2022, 05:49:59 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on August 09, 2022, 11:55:30 AM
I don't care what Republicans are saying they are just as retarded as the Democrats

government spending has actually been decreasing quite substantially already in 2022 and yet inflation keeps rampaging
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/report/deficit-tracker/

inflation will not decline until M2 declines which it has just barely started to do from April this year, who knows where it will go when the government is handing out another 700 billion to their cronies
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM2NS

and finally you really think EV manufacturers are going to lower prices of their cars because of a tax credit?  Guess what, all they do is charge $7500 more or whatever the tax credit is on the MSRP of their vehicles making them prohibitively more expensive and thus increasing inflation on those vehicles and money trickling up to shareholders due to increased revenues brought in...  remember when the model 3 was going to cost 35k?  well now its 50k and with tesla getting their tax credit back I would wager on it costing hmmm... around 57.5k next year

Democrats are not as idiotic as Republicans.

Increasing or decreasing the money supply in and of itself does not affect inflation.  The simple explanation is when the money supply increases faster than the economy is growing, inflation can occur.


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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2048 on: August 09, 2022, 07:12:37 PM »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2049 on: August 09, 2022, 08:41:45 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on August 09, 2022, 07:12:37 PM
Well that didn't take very long

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/9/23298076/ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-price-order-2023
"And if you think that the $7,500 federal EV tax credit might help take some of the sting out of these price increases, think again. Under the deal constructed by Senate Democrats, the Ford F-150 Lightning would not be eligible for the tax credit until at least 40 percent of its components — including the battery — are made in North America or by a US trading partner."

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2050 on: August 09, 2022, 09:33:30 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on August 09, 2022, 07:12:37 PM
Well that didn't take very long

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/9/23298076/ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-price-order-2023

Do you read the stuff you link?

Quote
...the Ford F-150 Lightning would not be eligible for the tax credit until at least 40 percent of its components — including the battery — are made in North America or by a US trading partner.

Hope there aren't many suckers out there
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alum74

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2051 on: August 09, 2022, 09:42:05 PM »
Quote from: Mn on August 09, 2022, 08:41:45 PM
"And if you think that the $7,500 federal EV tax credit might help take some of the sting out of these price increases, think again. Under the deal constructed by Senate Democrats, the Ford F-150 Lightning would not be eligible for the tax credit until at least 40 percent of its components — including the battery — are made in North America or by a US trading partner."

I think it’s a good idea that the legislation incentivizes EV and battery manufacturing in North America with minerals mined or recycled on the continent.  More of this please: 
https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/27/22696427/ford-ev-battery-factory-tennessee-kentucky-investment and https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/4/22313251/gm-ev-second-battery-factory-lg-chem-tennessee


« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 09:45:24 PM by alum74 »
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2052 on: August 09, 2022, 09:46:11 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on August 09, 2022, 09:33:30 PM
Do you read the stuff you link?

Hope there aren't many suckers out there
I'm guessing he was referring to the price increase.
$7000 price increase and no indirect benefit. Woohoo.

https://www.ibtimes.com/ford-layoffs-2022-why-automaker-reportedly-plans-cut-8000-jobs-3581973
Ford employees can learn to write code.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 09:54:53 PM by Mn »
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alum74

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2053 on: August 09, 2022, 10:02:09 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on August 09, 2022, 02:48:22 PM
Aren't going to be able to find used EV. Or if you can, the battery will be drained enough that you'd want a new one you can't get

Did a quick internet search and found 30 used EVs for sale where I live, ranging in price from $12,000 to $65,000.  If I find a car I like, I would take it to an independent repair shop to check the battery's health. 

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is up with this Clown World?
« Reply #2054 on: August 09, 2022, 10:10:52 PM »
workers at the 2nd largest aluminum mill in America, accounting for 20% of US supply, learned they were losing their jobs because the plant can’t afford an electricity tab that’s tripled in a matter of months. "
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/
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