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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #315 on: April 21, 2023, 01:04:28 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 21, 2023, 12:58:39 PM
If your main point was totally irrelevant to the discussion I’d started, and you used that to misrepresent my views for years - is that your issue? Or mine?

Would it be fair to judge Justin Fields based on his production thus far?  He’s played more games than either Trubisky or Mahomes had when this discussion took place.

To be honest, I’m not sure exactly where I was on Trubisky at that time. Probably didn’t love him. Probably didn’t view him as hopeless. What I was pretty certain of was that he wasn’t in Patrick Mahomes’ league. Although technically I guess he was. So you got me there…
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #316 on: April 21, 2023, 01:05:47 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 01:01:46 PM
Your “opinion” is virtually meaningless. Go hang out at the deuce, where you have some value.

Spark's years worth of damning evidence is something to behold, Strawman34.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #317 on: April 21, 2023, 01:15:40 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 12:59:29 PM
Again. It doesn’t matter what the stats through 5 weeks said. It was clear Mahomes was the better player. That’s the only point I ever made. It’s 10x more obvious now than it was even then. I don’t see how I’m the one who comes out looking stupid on this one.

Well if you think the point I made was "Trubisky was the better player", you look stupid as fuck.  And that's how you've painted this for years, which you know is false - another way to say this is a lie.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #318 on: April 21, 2023, 01:17:22 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 21, 2023, 01:05:47 PM
Spark's years worth of damning evidence is something to behold, Strawman34.

12-18 months ago, you liked the cut of my jib. Often voicing support for my arguments. What’s changed? Other than the butthurt feelings you’ve developed since the JFC topic.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #319 on: April 21, 2023, 01:18:40 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 21, 2023, 01:15:40 PM
Well if you think the point I made was "Trubisky was the better player", you look stupid as fuck.  And that's how you've painted this for years, which you know is false - another way to say this is a lie.


Once again, I never ever once said that. So “stop lying.”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #320 on: April 21, 2023, 01:20:54 PM »
I can gauranfuckingtee you I never once said you “think Trubisky is ‘better’ than Mahomes.” Even in this thread I said “pretty much on par with statistically.” That’s as far as i went. And that’s exactly what we argued about 5-6 years ago.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #321 on: April 21, 2023, 01:21:35 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 01:17:22 PM
12-18 months ago, you liked the cut of my jib. Often voicing support for my arguments. What’s changed? Other than the butthurt feelings you’ve developed since the JFC topic.

Like anything else, some of your arguments I agree with and some I do not.

Then there is your penchant for strawmen.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #322 on: April 21, 2023, 01:22:53 PM »
We argued about how much “truth” was in those numbers. But, you’re the stat guy (unless stats favor Illinois heavily over ASU over 50 years). So in your opinion, the numbers were the “truth.”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #323 on: April 21, 2023, 01:23:41 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 21, 2023, 01:21:35 PM
Like anything else, some of your arguments I agree with and some I do not.

Then there is your penchant for strawmen.

You agreed with a lot more of them pre JFC.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #324 on: April 21, 2023, 01:24:00 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 01:18:40 PM

Once again, I never ever once said that. So “stop lying.”

How many god damn times have you tried to "gotcha" me for thinking Trubisky and Mahomes were comparable?  And just totally leaving out that the only thing I ever ACTUALLY said was "they've been comparable the last 5 weeks, so let's not rush to judgement before they've played 20 total games?"

I gotta say, this last week has been a reminder about how fucking dishonest you tend to be in these discussions.  Really hard to have an earnest, honest discussion when every single time it's full to the brim with strawmen, exaggerations, and outright lies about your position.

And as I've mentioned a few times - I KNOW you hate it when people act like you loved Reggie Theus or whatever falsehood they're spreading about you this week.  But that hate doesn't stop you from turning around and doing the EXACT same thing to me when you think it'll "win" you a gotcha.  Literally, I said "Mahomes and Trubisky are comparable players" exactly as much as you said "I'm going to be disappointed if we get anybody other than Theus".  Exactly the same amount.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #325 on: April 21, 2023, 01:25:27 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 01:22:53 PM
We argued about how much “truth” was in those numbers. But, you’re the stat guy (unless stats favor Illinois heavily over ASU over 50 years). So in your opinion, the numbers were the “truth.”

More made up stuff.

Hey man, if you want to claim some victory on this go for it.  I'm going to point out that they only way you can do that is to flat out lie about the debate and actively misrepresent what I was saying though, because that is true..
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #326 on: April 21, 2023, 01:26:41 PM »
I’m really trying to find some common ground here. You made the case that Mahomes and Trubisky were basically about even (using stats). I said don’t pay attention to the stats, pay attention to what you see. Are you saying this is an inaccurate remembrance of what occurred?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #327 on: April 21, 2023, 01:27:31 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 01:20:54 PM
I can gauranfuckingtee you I never once said you “think Trubisky is ‘better’ than Mahomes.” Even in this thread I said “pretty much on par with statistically.” That’s as far as i went. And that’s exactly what we argued about 5-6 years ago.

Yes, and "pretty much on par statistically" leaves out a pretty notable bit of context, right?

If I had said they were "pretty much on par statistically", something that was objectively false, then by all means hammer me for it.  I didn't say that though.  I said they had been pretty much on par statistically over the 5 weeks previous to the discussion, which was objectively true, and used it as an example to show how silly it is to judge a guy by his first 15-20 NFL games.

The exact point I was making then, and the exact same point I'm making now.  Has literally never changed one single time in 5-6 years, and you have managed to accurately recount it zero times in that span.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #328 on: April 21, 2023, 01:28:00 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 21, 2023, 01:25:27 PM
More made up stuff.

Hey man, if you want to claim some victory on this go for it.  I'm going to point out that they only way you can do that is to flat out lie about the debate and actively misrepresent what I was saying though, because that is true..

Again. I never ever ever ever ever said you “thought Trubisky was better than Mahomes.” So who is making shit up here?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #329 on: April 21, 2023, 01:28:48 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 01:26:41 PM
I’m really trying to find some common ground here. You made the case that Mahomes and Trubisky were basically about even (using stats). I said don’t pay attention to the stats, pay attention to what you see. Are you saying this is an inaccurate remembrance of what occurred?

Yes.  If you think I said "Mahomes and Trubisky were basically about even", yes, this is an "inaccurrate remembrance" - which you know, because you've misrepresented that point and been corrected at least a dozen times.
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