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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #180 on: April 20, 2023, 11:19:14 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 20, 2023, 10:54:05 AM
I think the Trubisky v Mahomes example is actually quite appropriate for this debate. Sometimes the “numbers” don’t tell the entire story.

It's a perfect example of how you're unable to partake in an argument without exaggerating or misrepresenting others' points and beating up strawmen.  I agree.

I said “Trubisky is definitely better than Mahomes” in the same way you said “Reggie Theus is the only acceptable choice for the next Illinois basketball coach”.  Which is to say, only in the mind of people who are being actively dishonest.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 12:26:54 PM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #181 on: April 20, 2023, 11:20:10 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 20, 2023, 09:35:16 AM
This is really below your usual standard of work. Usually you make me work harder. For this example to be legit, both of the coaches have to be competent.

They're of comparable competency.  One of them just had jobs where it's way easier to win.

Is it a dumb argument no reasonable person would make?  Yes.  Is it the same one you're making?  Also yes.

This is the point in the argument where you said, "oh so you think Illinois is a comparable program to UNC?  You don't think UNC has competitive advantages?"

Frankly, it's pretty well on par with your usual work.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 11:22:16 AM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #182 on: April 20, 2023, 11:23:55 AM »
Quote from: Dominic on April 20, 2023, 10:34:43 AM
How do you consider Bruce Weber a mediocre coach but not Underwood?

Underwood has far worse results.

But you are the guy that thinks Trubisky is similar to Mahomes lol

I'm shocked that A. you don't recognize the differences in the Illinois program that those two guys inherited and B. you're dishonestly parroting Tempo's active dishonesty about the Trubisky/Mahomes thing.

I'm not actually shocked, because you're a complete fucking idiot who is proudly wrong about nearly every single thing you say.

Underwood's early results in the first two years taking over a dead program were comparable to Weber's last few years after he'd killed it, yes.  His last four years have been considerably better than any four year stretch that Weber built here, that's for sure.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 11:33:31 AM by spark mandrill »
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Dominic

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #183 on: April 20, 2023, 11:36:11 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 20, 2023, 11:23:55 AM
I'm shocked that A. you don't recognize the differences in the Illinois program that those two guys inherited and B. you're dishonestly parroting Tempo's active dishonesty about the Trubisky/Mahomes thing.

I'm not actually shocked, because you're a complete fucking idiot who is proudly wrong about nearly every single thing you say.

Underwood's early results in the first two years taking over a dead program were comparable to Weber's last few years after he'd killed it, yes.  His last four years have been considerably better than any four year stretch thaty Weber built here, that's for sure.

Weber’s first 4 years at Illinois are better than anything Underwood will ever achieve.  Ever.  Why does Weber not get credit for those wins? 

You talk about building rosters.  This past year is the first year Underwood has had where it’s a roster completely built by himself.  Guess what.  It sucked. Weber’s teams were better that he built from scratch.

Weber’s 2008-09 and 2010-11 teams were far better than this past year of Underwood.

But according to you, there are no inherent competitive advantages in college basketball.  So it doesn’t matter what situation a coach enters in.  He’s just gonna succeed or fail based on who he is.
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Lkdog

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #184 on: April 20, 2023, 11:47:53 AM »
Hey NITSqueaky.

Just STFU.
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Dominic

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #185 on: April 20, 2023, 12:04:51 PM »
And to go further, these 100% built Weber teams:

SIU (2001-02)
IL (2008–09)
IL (2010-11)
K State (2017-18)
K State (2018-19)

Were all better than the only Underwood built team we can compare it too which is this year’s Illinois team.

And no sparky, Underwood’s first 2 years were no where close to even Weber’s last years.

Weber went 20-14, 17-15 his last 2 years and was fired.

Underwood went 14–18, 12-21 his first 2 seasons.

I expect you’ll want Underwood fired if he goes 17-15 this year right?  If you’re gonna apply the same standards to Weber, please be consistent.






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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #186 on: April 20, 2023, 12:21:48 PM »
Quote from: Dominic on April 20, 2023, 12:04:51 PM
And to go further, these 100% built Weber teams:

SIU (2001-02)
IL (2008–09)
IL (2010-11)
K State (2017-18)
K State (2018-19)

Were all better than the only Underwood built team we can compare it too which is this year’s Illinois team.

And no sparky, Underwood’s first 2 years were no where close to even Weber’s last years.

Weber went 20-14, 17-15 his last 2 years and was fired.

Underwood went 14–18, 12-21 his first 2 seasons.

I expect you’ll want Underwood fired if he goes 17-15 this year right?  If you’re gonna apply the same standards to Weber, please be consistent.

You’re an utter moron, straight up, if you don’t think Underwood built the last four Illinois teams.  An utter, complete moron.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #187 on: April 20, 2023, 12:23:19 PM »
If Underwood went 17-15 this year I’d be okay with him getting fired, even if it’s clearly a pretty quick trigger.  If we did we’d be likely to get worse though.

If Underwood made the Final Four this year you’d be here making up some excuse for why it didn’t count and when you predicted we’d be horrible you were actually right.  That’s the difference between us - I am not a fucking idiot.
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Dominic

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #188 on: April 20, 2023, 12:32:16 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 20, 2023, 12:21:48 PM
You’re an utter moron, straight up, if you don’t think Underwood built the last four Illinois teams.  An utter, complete moron.

He inherited Trent Frazier.  He inherited Damonte Williams.  If you aren’t going to give credit to Weber for the 2003-2006 success, it’s only fair to apply the same standard to Underwood
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Dominic

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #189 on: April 20, 2023, 12:33:53 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 20, 2023, 12:23:19 PM
If Underwood went 17-15 this year I’d be okay with him getting fired, even if it’s clearly a pretty quick trigger.  If we did we’d be likely to get worse though.


We’re you this pessimistic about firing Weber?   

How much worse can we do than Underwood?  Again, 31-45. No more Kofi’s. 

Underwood/Groce should be the floor of Illinois coaches
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 12:35:48 PM by Dominic »
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illiniray

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #190 on: April 20, 2023, 12:36:09 PM »
Quote from: Dominic on April 20, 2023, 11:36:11 AM
This past year is the first year Underwood has had where it’s a roster completely built by himself. 

How do you arrive at that conclusion?
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #191 on: April 20, 2023, 12:36:54 PM »
Quote from: Dominic on April 20, 2023, 12:32:16 PM
He inherited Trent Frazier.  He inherited Damonte Williams.  If you aren’t going to give credit to Weber for the 2003-2006 success, it’s only fair to apply the same standard to Underwood

Ignoring that both of them could’ve left and he got them to re-commit, it makes sense that a basketball genius like you would compare Damonte Williams and Trent Frazier to an entire starting five that played in the NBA.

Totally matches up to your level of basketball knowledge.

If you don’t think Brad Underwood built the last four teams here, or if you think Weber did build his first few teams here, then “complete moron” was giving you way too much credit, so my bad on that.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #192 on: April 20, 2023, 12:37:37 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on April 20, 2023, 12:36:09 PM
How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Same way he comes up with all his shit - just pretend with me!
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #193 on: April 20, 2023, 12:38:50 PM »
Quote from: Dominic on April 20, 2023, 12:33:53 PM
We’re you this pessimistic about firing Weber?   

How much worse can we do than Underwood?  Again, 31-45. No more Kofi’s. 

Underwood/Groce should be the floor of Illinois coaches

How much worse can we do than four straight tournament teams after 3 in a decade under Weber and Groce?

You are truly irredeemably stupid my friend.  Just bottom of the barrel intelligence.  Surprising you got kicked out of UI for being a stalker since that implies you got in in the first place.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #194 on: April 20, 2023, 12:39:51 PM »
One thing I love is Truth trying to gotcha me by saying I didn’t like Weber, that’s funny as fuck.
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