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2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD

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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #660 on: April 19, 2023, 09:47:09 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 09:42:35 AM
Okay, so neither program consistently is a top-4 seed (ASU has one, a 2-seed in the 80's).  Agree with that.  Illinois has been that more, mostly 15+ years ago (we've been a top-4 seed twice since Dee Brown graduated, both under Underwood) - agree with that too.

It's the opposite of the point you're trying to make again though.

Is your contention is that Brad Underwood has Illinois contending for Final Fours?

Saying that is like saying Dansby Swanson and Nick Madrigal are essentially the same because they are both big leaguers. ASU has not sniffed the success Illinois has had.

Yes, unfortunately the majority of that success was 15-40 years ago.  But we’ve recently flirted with it again. My basic point is, a competent coach can do well at Illinois.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #661 on: April 19, 2023, 09:48:27 AM »
And my other point is that a “competent” coach won’t get Illinois level success at ASU. That coach would have to be elite.

And by that I mean slam dunk HOfer.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #662 on: April 19, 2023, 09:51:00 AM »
I would say during the Kofi/Ayo period, yes. Underwood was at that level. Covid ruined his other good chance for a deep run.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #663 on: April 19, 2023, 09:54:55 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:48:27 AM
And my other point is that a “competent” coach won’t get Illinois level success at ASU. That coach would have to be elite.

And by that I mean slam dunk HOfer.

But you have yet to provide any reasoning or evidence for this take other than "it's just true".

I think the evidence pretty clearly shows that good coaches win everywhere they coach, and bad coaches don't.  I don't think it makes any logical sense at all to say "this coach with better results is comparable to this other coach with worse results - even a worse X's and O's coach - because the first coach is at a program that has more historical success."  They inherited programs that had been very similar in recent years.  No one other than Illinois fans latches onto Illinois' history from 20-40 years ago.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #664 on: April 19, 2023, 09:55:52 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 09:54:55 AM
But you have yet to provide any reasoning or evidence for this take other than "it's just true".

I think the evidence pretty clearly shows that good coaches win everywhere they coach, and bad coaches don't.  I don't think it makes any logical sense at all to say "this coach with better results is comparable to this other coach with worse results - even a worse X's and O's coach - because the first coach is at a program that has more historical success."  They inherited programs that had been very similar in recent years.  No one other than Illinois fans latches onto Illinois' history from 20-40 years ago.

The fact that Illinois’ “failure” is success ASU only dreams of isn’t enough “proof?”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #665 on: April 19, 2023, 09:57:03 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:47:09 AM
Saying that is like saying Dansby Swanson and Nick Madrigal are essentially the same because they are both big leaguers. ASU has not sniffed the success Illinois has had.

Yes, unfortunately the majority of that success was 15-40 years ago.  But we’ve recently flirted with it again. My basic point is, a competent coach can do well at Illinois.

No, it's not.  It's like saying that Dansby Swanson is comparable to guys who have produced comparably to him, and is better than guys who have produced less than him.

Your take is like saying that Dansby Swanson is actually comparable to a guy with considerably worse production because he plays for the historically inept Chicago Cubs.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #666 on: April 19, 2023, 09:58:02 AM »
Again. Good coaches “win,” anywhere. That’s largely true. I’m talking about winning at the highest levels. It is easier to do (though not “easy”) at Illinois than it is ASU. I don’t see how that’s controversial. We’ve had 3 HOF caliber coaches in our lifetime. I don’t think ASU has had one. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #667 on: April 19, 2023, 09:58:14 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:55:52 AM
The fact that Illinois’ “failure” is success ASU only dreams of isn’t enough “proof?”

It's certainly evidence that Illinois' coach is considerably better than ASU's - that the Underwood season that causes this board to meltdown and want him fire would be near the top of Hurley's list.

The notion that it's related to the history of the programs and not the coaches they have simply doesn't follow the evidence at all.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #668 on: April 19, 2023, 10:00:02 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:58:02 AM
Again. Good coaches “win,” anywhere. That’s largely true. I’m talking about winning at the highest levels. It is easier to do (though not “easy”) at Illinois than it is ASU. I don’t see how that’s controversial. We’ve had 3 HOF caliber coaches in our lifetime. I don’t think ASU has had one. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

And that's why Illinois has historically better results than ASU.  Because they have hired Hall of Fame coaches.

It's not because it's Illinois and ASU is ASU.  It's because Illinois has hired better college basketball coaches, and good college basketball coaches win whether they're at Illinois or Iona or Kentucky or UMass.

You're arguing against your own point again.  Good coaches win wherever they go.  Mediocre coaches don't. Saying two coaches are comparable despite their results not being comparable because historically one program is better than the other simply ignores reality.
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Lkdog

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #669 on: April 19, 2023, 10:29:49 AM »
If I can interpret all of the sophomoric bullshit worshiping of insiders and nuthugging going on at Loyalty- this guy might be visiting today.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4432996/quincy-guerrier
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No one in Mn

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #670 on: April 19, 2023, 10:36:09 AM »
Quote from: Lkdog on April 19, 2023, 10:29:49 AM
If I can interpret all of the sophomoric bullshit worshiping of insiders and nuthugging going on at Loyalty- this guy might be visiting today.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4432996/quincy-guerrier
Looks like he could elevate our 3 point percentage a tiche, but make up for it with free shot shooting.
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Still hiding behind innuendo and practicing the art of ommision.
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Lkdog

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #671 on: April 19, 2023, 10:40:21 AM »
Also there allegedly is a deal already made for a PG.

Rumor is RayJ Dennis.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4431941/rayj-dennis

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ThePAMan

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #672 on: April 19, 2023, 10:43:47 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:21:41 AM
I sure hope you’re not including me in that group.

You are the Duke of New York, A Number 1, person in the group.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #673 on: April 19, 2023, 10:44:09 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 09:58:14 AM
It's certainly evidence that Illinois' coach is considerably better than ASU's -

Over 40 years. Even Weber (post Dee) and probably Groce achieved at a level ASU would have been pretty happy with.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #674 on: April 19, 2023, 10:45:58 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:20:49 AM
So now you’re going to replace objective results with “supposing.” Where did Calipari start getting his BEST results? Where did Roy finally WIN titles? Where did Pitino reach the HEIGHT of his success?  Where did Self win two titles and earn a perpetual 1 seed? It seems safe to say that these legendary coaches achieved their GREATEST success at the most prestigious programs they coached at. It’s not a coincidence.

Didn't stay long enough due to...the answer for everything...MONEY.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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