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2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD

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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #645 on: April 19, 2023, 09:25:50 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 08:09:35 AM
Which 6 coaches did Illinois contend for the Final Four under?

Calipari won the title at UK, yes.  He played for it at Memphis.  He was one game away from playing for at UMass.  To pretend those results aren’t very comparable is wild.  They are.  He has had great results everywhere - he didn’t have mediocre results at UMass because it’s a mid-major, which is what you would expect if your overall point about Hurley having a mediocre record because of ASU’s history was accurate.

It’s far more likely that Underwood and Hurley’s results aren’t comparable because one of them is a notably better college basketball coach than the other.

Are you confusing only E8 appearances for “contending” for Final Fours? Even if you use that high bar, the answer is half of them. 4 of them had earned a 1 seed at some point.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #646 on: April 19, 2023, 09:26:30 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:23:42 AM
He’d be pretty inept if he didn’t have an inkling.

I suspect that you wouldn't even be able to tell me what happened to get SFA in trouble without looking it up.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #647 on: April 19, 2023, 09:27:11 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:25:50 AM
Are you confusing only E8 appearances for “contending” for Final Fours? Even if you use that high bar, the answer is half of them. 4 of them had earned a 1 seed at some point.

I mean, it'd be a difficult sell to claim that Lon Kruger or John Groce or Brad Underwood have contended for Final Fours at Illinois, which was why I asked what basis you were claiming that on.

I will agree that Henson, Self, Weber contended for or made them at least a couple times.

Illinois has actually made two Final Fours in the last 70 years.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 09:31:33 AM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #648 on: April 19, 2023, 09:30:50 AM »
Had Kruger stayed more than 3 years he’d have probably earned a 1 seed at some point. That’s a potent program.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #649 on: April 19, 2023, 09:31:54 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:30:50 AM
Had Kruger stayed more than 3 years he’d have probably earned a 1 seed at some point. That’s a potent program.

LOL, the way your standards shift with the wind is always funny.

Can you really contend for the Final Four in the first weekend of the tournament?
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #650 on: April 19, 2023, 09:34:46 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 09:27:11 AM
I mean, it'd be a difficult sell to claim that Lon Kruger or John Groce or Brad Underwood have contended for Final Fours at Illinois, which was why I asked what basis you were claiming that on.

I will agree that Henson, Self, Weber contended for or made them at least a couple times.

Illinois has actually made two Final Fours in the last 70 years.

I would argue that any program consistently earning 4 seeds or better is “contending” for final fours more or less, regardless of tournament run. Underwood having a very disappointing run as a 1 seed doesn’t diminish the potency of the Illinois program.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #651 on: April 19, 2023, 09:36:14 AM »
Sorry, I was using voice translator. I fixed it.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #652 on: April 19, 2023, 09:38:06 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 09:31:54 AM
LOL, the way your standards shift with the wind is always funny.

Can you really contend for the Final Four in the first weekend of the tournament?

Again, it’s very much about seeding. Regularly earning high seeds is important. The fact that Illinois has underachieved relative to those seedings doesn’t diminish the potency of the program.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #653 on: April 19, 2023, 09:38:37 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 09:31:54 AM
LOL, the way your standards shift with the wind is always funny.

Can you really contend for the Final Four in the first weekend of the tournament?

Care to explain how I’ve “shifted?”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #654 on: April 19, 2023, 09:38:47 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:34:46 AM
I would argue that any program consistently earning 4 seeds or better is “contending” for final fours more or less, regardless of tournament run. Underwood having a very disappointing run as a 1 seed doesn’t diminish the potency of the Illinois program.



Illinois has been a top-4 seed 14 times in the 70+ years there have been more than 20 teams in the tournament.  Twice a decade.
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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #655 on: April 19, 2023, 09:40:12 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 19, 2023, 09:38:47 AM


Illinois has been a top-4 seed 14 times in the 70+ years there have been more than 20 teams in the tournament.  Twice a decade.

Most of those since 1980. And that’s probably 14 more 4 seeds or higher than ASU has had.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #656 on: April 19, 2023, 09:40:23 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:38:37 AM
Care to explain how I’ve “shifted?”

Well, you opined that Calipari's ceiling and results were better at Kentucky, but I didn't hear you mention "if he'd stayed at Memphis or UMass, he'd have likely continued his success at those places" even though that's likely true.

But Lon Kruger contended for Final Fours at Illinois even though he didn't make the second weekend, because if he'd stayed he probably would've had a 1-seed later.

Those are notably different standards, seems like they shift based on what argument you're trying to make in that moment.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #657 on: April 19, 2023, 09:42:35 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:40:12 AM
Most of those since 1980. And that’s probably 14 more 4 seeds or higher than ASU has had.

Okay, so neither program consistently is a top-4 seed (ASU has one, a 2-seed in the 80's).  Agree with that.  Illinois has been that more, mostly 15+ years ago (we've been a top-4 seed twice since Dee Brown graduated, both under Underwood) - agree with that too.

It's the opposite of the point you're trying to make again though.

Lou Henson had 6 consecutive top-4 seeds in the 80's.  He made one S16, one E8, one Final Four, and lost in the first round twice.  We put his name on our court.

Is your contention is that Brad Underwood has Illinois contending for Final Fours?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 09:44:42 AM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #658 on: April 19, 2023, 09:43:24 AM »
Calipari would have definitely been “successful” had he stayed at Memphis. 4 Final Fours and a natty in 6 years successful? Likely not.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #659 on: April 19, 2023, 09:46:07 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 19, 2023, 09:43:24 AM
Calipari would have definitely been “successful” had he stayed at Memphis. 4 Final Fours and a natty in 6 years successful? Likely not.

He'd been to two E8's and a Final Four - including an overtime loss in the national title game - in the previous four years, why would four F4's in the next 6 be out of the question? He was pulling the exact same kinds of recruits at Memphis as he did at Kentucky.

He already had Cousins coming to Memphis the next year, and was going to get Wall there too.  You really think those guys got to the Elite Eight because they were at Kentucky, not because they were good and had a good coach that's won big everywhere he's been?  You really think he was going to stop getting the top recruits every year at Memphis?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 09:48:52 AM by spark mandrill »
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