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2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD

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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #600 on: April 18, 2023, 09:59:49 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 18, 2023, 09:06:44 PM
And money.

And an improved chance to win on an annual basis. He left a roster he considered a national title roster to go to Kansas. And it wasn’t (all) about the money.

You could even argue Roy left Kansas for a better chance to win a national title. Roy was coming off back to back Final Fours at KU. And still recognized his ceiling was probably higher at North Carolina.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #601 on: April 18, 2023, 10:00:58 PM »
The point is, Illinois to ASU isn’t an apples to apples comparison. No coach wanting to win titles would choose ASU over Illinois. Unless he was from there.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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illiniray

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #602 on: April 18, 2023, 10:02:06 PM »
In 1999, nobody in their right mind wanted Lou Henson fired. There were idiots though.

By 1992, lots had their doubts.

In 1995, it was reaching a consensus he had to move on.

I supported Groce at first. At some point, it was obvious he was over his head.

I am not even going to talk about Weber.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #603 on: April 18, 2023, 10:02:34 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 18, 2023, 09:06:15 PM
It was Tempo doubling down on his Calipari argument....

Where were Pitino and Calipari MOST successful? I’ll hang up and listen to your answer.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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illiniray

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #604 on: April 18, 2023, 10:03:20 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 18, 2023, 10:00:58 PM
The point is, Illinois to ASU isn’t an apples to apples comparison. No coach wanting to win titles would choose ASU over Illinois. Unless he was from there.

Because Illinois has won so many?
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #605 on: April 18, 2023, 10:05:15 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on April 18, 2023, 10:03:20 PM
Because Illinois has won so many?

More than ASU (I count conference titles, too). And certainly been more of a national title contender than ASU. Should we count 4 seeds and higher the last 40 years?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #606 on: April 18, 2023, 10:08:04 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 18, 2023, 09:58:56 PM
This is a total deflection though Tempo.  We're talking about comparing the results between a 'better' program and a 'worse' program, however you define that.

If you were right, Calipari and Pitino would have had worse results at their 'worse' stops, but they didn't.  They had consistent success everywhere they'd been, barring a couple years for a program rebuild at the beginning.

They absolutely had “worse” results at their “worse” stops. It just so happens their worst results were usually pretty good as well.

Calipari didn’t win a national title at Memphis with a generational one and done player. He looked up at the scoreboard and saw “Kansas” after the game. It was probably then he realized he HAD to upgrade.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #607 on: April 18, 2023, 10:08:17 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 18, 2023, 10:00:58 PM
The point is, Illinois to ASU isn’t an apples to apples comparison. No coach wanting to win titles would choose ASU over Illinois. Unless he was from there.

Every coach wants to win titles, but coaches turned us down not that long ago for more time at VCU and Butler.

I get how you view our program, but most people didn't view it that way in 2005, let alone now.  The idea that a coach at Illinois is 'comparable' to a coach winning 10-15% fewer games at a different high major program just isn't real life.

Good coaches win everywhere they coach, as you accidentally showed us.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #608 on: April 18, 2023, 10:10:01 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 18, 2023, 10:08:04 PM
They absolutely had “worse” results at their “worse” stops. It just so happens their worst results were usually pretty good as well.

Calipari didn’t win a national title at Memphis with a generational one and done player. He looked up at the scoreboard and saw “Kansas.” It was probably then he realized he HAD to upgrade.

He coached in Final Fours at two mid-major programs.  His results were superlative everywhere he went.  He was almost literally the best example to use to argue against the point you're trying to make.  He's a great coach who's gotten great results whether he's coaching at a blue blood or a mid major.

He wasn't held back from big time success because he was at UMass, and that isn't a coincidence.  It's because he's a great college basketball coach.

If the program's historical success was the dictating factor, he'd have had considerably less success at UMass and Memphis than at Kentucky, but he didn't.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2023, 10:13:15 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #609 on: April 18, 2023, 10:11:51 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 18, 2023, 10:08:17 PM
Every coach wants to win titles, but coaches turned us down not that long ago for more time at VCU and Butler.

I get how you view our program, but most people didn't view it that way in 2005, let alone now.  The idea that a coach at Illinois is 'comparable' to a coach winning 10-15% fewer games at a different high major program just isn't real life.

Good coaches win everywhere they coach, as you accidentally showed us.

There were probably underlying reasons Shaka didn’t take Illinois. It was soon discovered Mike Thomas was a clown. Shaka knew a Texas or UCLA would come calling. He was the hot commodity for several years.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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illiniray

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #610 on: April 18, 2023, 10:12:10 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 18, 2023, 10:05:15 PM
More than ASU (I count conference titles, too). And certainly been more of a national title contender than ASU. Should we count 4 seeds and higher the last 40 years?

Number of 4 seeds or higher since 1982 is something only an Illini fan would bring up.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #611 on: April 18, 2023, 10:13:10 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 18, 2023, 10:10:01 PM
He coached in Final Fours at two mid-major programs.  His results were superlative everywhere he went.  He was almost literally the best example to use to argue against the point you're trying to make.  He's a great coach who's gotten great results whether he's coaching at a blue blood or a mid major.

He wasn't held back from big time success because he was at UMass, and that isn't a coincidence.  It's because he's a great college

 basketball coach.

Do you think Calipari’s ultimate goal each year is “to make the Final Four?” Hell, no. His goal is to win the damn thing. More often than not.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #612 on: April 18, 2023, 10:13:59 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 18, 2023, 10:11:51 PM
There were probably underlying reasons Shaka didn’t take Illinois. It was soon discovered Mike Thomas was a clown. Shaka knew a Texas or UCLA would come calling. He was the hot commodity for several years.

And washed out at Texas, yes.

But what coach who wanted to win titles would stay at VCU or Butler over Illinois?

it's just a silly meatheady type take.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #613 on: April 18, 2023, 10:16:31 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 18, 2023, 10:13:10 PM
Do you think Calipari’s ultimate goal each year is “to make the Final Four?” Hell, no. His goal is to win the damn thing. More often than not.

Yep, and he came really close at multiple mid-majors.

Do you really think you're supporting your point?  You're not, you're supporting mine.

John Calipari had big time success, in terms of winning percentage, conference winning percentage, tournament success - comparable at every stop he made, whether it was one of the most successful programs in history or a program that has two total tournament appearances in 95+ seasons when he didn't coach or recruit their players.
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Judge Judy

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #614 on: April 18, 2023, 10:18:22 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 18, 2023, 09:59:26 PM

Brad Underwood has had WAY more wins vacated than Calipari.

True story: SFA has vacated more wins than anyone other than Northern Colorado and Louisville.

No doubt, but cheating and sanctions would be a reason Cal left UMass and Memphis. They were definitely in hot water because of him.
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