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2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations

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Reacher

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #105 on: June 19, 2023, 03:01:20 PM »
Not to mention, Altman wasn't fired from Kansas State, He left to accept the job at Creighton.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #106 on: June 19, 2023, 03:02:04 PM »
I'm surprised the idea of leaving the Big 12 for the Missouri Valley willingly doesn't break your brain.  That's the kind of thing you consistently argue basically no one would ever do.

He wasn't going to last long at KSU though.  So it makes sense.  It'd be like if we missed the tournament this year and Underwood took a job at Indiana State.

Altman also won 2 tournament games in his first 24 seasons before he made his first S16 in year 25.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2023, 03:05:39 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #107 on: June 19, 2023, 03:05:38 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 19, 2023, 03:02:04 PM
I'm surprised the idea of leaving the Big 12 for the Missouri Valley willingly doesn't break your brain.  That's the kind of thing you consistently argue basically no one would ever do.

He wasn't going to last long at KSU though.  So it makes sense.  It'd be like if we missed the tournament this year and Underwood took a job at Indiana State.

Different era. That's how long ago it was. Sometimes people just aren't happy. It's not like Manhattan KS is heaven.

Larranaga has also been a HC for 2/3rds of Underwood's life.

Again', about the only real comparison is Tang. But I do like Tang.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #108 on: June 19, 2023, 03:06:57 PM »
Tang is probably the worst comparison on the list IMO.  I almost didn't even mention him, because he has nowhere near the sample size as even Underwood, let alone the other guys on that list.

Explain why Tang is a better comparison than, say, Bo Ryan.

Yes, Larranaga has coached for a long time.  He didn't get a high major job until he'd been coaching for 25 seasons.  He had one amazing tournament run at George Mason, and won one other tournament game outside that run in those 25 years.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2023, 03:09:43 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #109 on: June 19, 2023, 03:24:08 PM »
Bo Ryan was a highly successful head coach for like 25 years before getting the Wisconsin job. And yes, I’d still consider Bo Ryan that rare outlier.

Tang is the one guy that had less experience than Underwood at 52 (that I’m aware of).
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #110 on: June 19, 2023, 03:32:26 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on June 19, 2023, 03:24:08 PM
Bo Ryan was a highly successful head coach for like 25 years before getting the Wisconsin job. And yes, I’d still consider Bo Ryan that rare outlier.

Tang is the one guy that had less experience than Underwood at 52 (that I’m aware of).

Bo Ryan was coaching for 25 years in Division III before he got UW-Milwaukee job, where he stayed for only two years.  Like, he coached at a level that literally doesn't offer athletic scholarships.
 Isn't this exactly the thing you're criticizing Underwood for, except Underwood was actually coaching in Division I, and for less time?

Underwood had considerably more success and experience as a head coach at this level when we hired him than Bo Ryan did when Wisconsin hired him.  Way more.  If we hired Herb Magee or Dave Holmquist to be our head coach would you say they're really experienced?  Hell, they're some of the winningest and most experienced coaches in NCAA history - and started young, too.

My guess is you don't even know who those guys are without looking them up, even though they're #2 and #4 on the all time winningest college basketball coaches list.

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #111 on: June 19, 2023, 03:36:23 PM »
If we're using that logic, then Brad Underwood actually got his first college head coaching job at age 25 and had more than a decade of CBB head coaching experience when we hired him.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2023, 03:38:17 PM by spark mandrill »
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FaninCa

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #112 on: June 19, 2023, 04:15:27 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 19, 2023, 02:14:20 PM
Only because you can't; it's pretty clear you would've fired him last year.

I think it's pretty clear based on that that you'd have fired most of the E8 and F4 coaches before last season, because they mostly had had less success than Underwood lately.

Squeaky Jr?  Nobody would be here agreeing with you more loudly than Truth.  He agreed with you completely, and - surely coincidentally - also actively wants Illinois Basketball to be bad.

Wtf.

You're just throwing wild haymakers like Squeaky.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #113 on: June 19, 2023, 04:21:10 PM »
You haven't even attempted to make a well-evidenced point yet, so no worries.

You called me Squeaky Jr.  'Squeaky' agrees with you, not me.  He also has wanted Illinois basketball to be bad for multiple decades.

I found being compared to Truth by someone making literally the exact same arguments he makes constantly pretty funny.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2023, 04:24:57 PM by spark mandrill »
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FaninCa

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #114 on: June 19, 2023, 04:37:07 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 19, 2023, 04:21:10 PM
You haven't even attempted to make a well-evidenced point yet, so no worries.

You called me Squeaky Jr.  'Squeaky' agrees with you, not me.  He also has wanted Illinois basketball to be bad for multiple decades.

I found being compared to Truth by someone making literally the exact same arguments he makes constantly pretty funny.

I don't root against Illinois, but keep making stuff up, kid.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #115 on: June 19, 2023, 07:12:46 PM »
Lol sure D3, but Bo Ryan won 4 national titles. I guess that’s not like coaching at a couple of community colleges, but close enough.

The point is, it’s a much less traveled avenue to be a highly successful HC who didn’t really get a shot at the big time until he was well into his 50s. It’s doesn’t mean Underwood can’t or won’t be highly successful.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #116 on: June 19, 2023, 07:17:46 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 19, 2023, 03:32:26 PM
If we hired Herb Magee or Dave Holmquist to be our head coach would you say they're really

My guess is you don't even know who those guys are without looking them up, even though they're #2 and #4 on the all time winningest college basketball coaches list.

Those names sound vaguely familiar, but I could be confusing them with HOF harness driver Dave Magee, who was the leading driver in Chicago for many years…
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #117 on: June 20, 2023, 09:09:49 AM »
Quote from: FaninCa on June 19, 2023, 04:37:07 PM
I don't root against Illinois, but keep making stuff up, kid.

No, you just coincidentally make identical arguments to those who do and never stop to think about that.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #118 on: June 20, 2023, 09:12:05 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on June 19, 2023, 07:12:46 PM
Lol sure D3, but Bo Ryan won 4 national titles. I guess that’s not like coaching at a couple of community colleges, but close enough.

The point is, it’s a much less traveled avenue to be a highly successful HC who didn’t really get a shot at the big time until he was well into his 50s. It’s doesn’t mean Underwood can’t or won’t be highly successful.

Correct - JUCO, especially D1 JUCOs, offer scholarships and get considerably better talent than most D3 schools.  There's a reason you see an influx of JUCO guys coming into high major D1 schools every year but rarely see D3 transfers.

I got offered out of high school to play division 3 basketball and football (along with baseball).  I had never played basketball or football at anything above a Park District, everyone gets to play type level.  It's not remotely comparable to D1 basketball.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #119 on: June 20, 2023, 09:12:41 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on June 19, 2023, 07:17:46 PM
Those names sound vaguely familiar, but I could be confusing them with HOF harness driver Dave Magee, who was the leading driver in Chicago for many years…

What's a harness driver?  Is that like a jockey?
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