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Sven's team comes visiting

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Reacher

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #105 on: March 04, 2023, 03:18:24 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on March 04, 2023, 01:10:18 PM
We whiffed on so many point guards in that era. Demetrius Jackson, London Perrantes, Q Snider (lol), Brunson.

As an aside, Larry Austin is still drawing a paycheck playing basketball as is Glynn Watson, who I still can't believe we didn't offer unless they flat-out told us no because of how Demetri was treated.

Don’t believe we were ever interested in Fred Van Vleet, either. I’m sure there are others, I just can’t remember their names anymore.
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illinicalvin

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #106 on: March 04, 2023, 06:09:09 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 04, 2023, 12:53:59 PM
At what point was the annual bar 'SWEET SIXTEEN!!!' ever in our program's history?

I mean I suppose maybe it was the expectation for some, but we've never met it.  We got four Final Fours in the late 40's/early 50's.  We made three S16's in 5 years in the early 80's.  We made 4 in 5 years in the early 2000's.

Three times in 70 years we've made more than one S16 in a 5 year span, one of which was in the Bill Russell college era.

Obviously we want to be that, but the way to be that is to consistently have good teams, consistently get into the tournament with favored seeds, not have big tournament droughts.  Be able to build and rebuild.  Literally every great coach has letdown tournament years like the year we lost to Loyola, which is really the only notable black mark on Underwood's tourney resume (and yes, it was a big one).

I think some of those questions are still open about Underwood for sure, but the number of great coaches who would've been fired because they didn't make a sweet 16 in their first 5-6 six years at the program is high.  The tournament is fickle, but keep getting there with high seeds and you will break through.
I'd largely agree with this. In the modern B1G our goal should be top half + making the tournament regularly and breaking through every few years. You can count on one hand the number of programs and coaches who've done better than that in the B1G the last 25 years, and a few of those had situations that aren't happening again (like Matta's recruitment at OSU or Bo Ryan lucking into multiple low-star NBA-level players for his offense).
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Reacher

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #107 on: March 04, 2023, 07:27:48 PM »
We’ve flirted with “S16 expectation” status a few times, but were fairly quickly knocked off our perch every time.
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FaninCa

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #108 on: March 04, 2023, 07:36:00 PM »
Can't see  Sweet 16 run any time soon.

Pretty pathetic.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #109 on: March 04, 2023, 09:07:29 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 04, 2023, 12:53:59 PM
At what point was the annual bar 'SWEET SIXTEEN!!!' ever in our program's history?

I mean I suppose maybe it was the expectation for some, but we've never met it.  We got four Final Fours in the late 40's/early 50's.  We made three S16's in 5 years in the early 80's.  We made 4 in 5 years in the early 2000's.

Three times in 70 years we've made more than one S16 in a 5 year span, one of which was in the Bill Russell college era.

Obviously we want to be that, but the way to be that is to consistently have good teams, consistently get into the tournament with favored seeds, not have big tournament droughts.  Be able to build and rebuild.  Literally every great coach has letdown tournament years like the year we lost to Loyola, which is really the only notable black mark on Underwood's tourney resume (and yes, it was a big one).

I think some of those questions are still open about Underwood for sure, but the number of great coaches who it would've been a mistake to fire because they didn't make a sweet 16 in their first 5-6 six years at the program is high.  The tournament is fickle, but keep getting there with high seeds and you will break through.

Except it WAS an annual expectation at the old incarnation of the site.

In regard to the bold portion: Since 2004-05, the program has never advanced past the first weekend. The tournament wins have been over giants like Air Force, Drexel, Chattanooga (narrowly), a mediocre UNLV, and Colora-doh.

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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #110 on: March 04, 2023, 09:11:10 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on March 04, 2023, 06:09:09 PM
I'd largely agree with this. In the modern B1G our goal should be top half + making the tournament regularly and breaking through every few years. You can count on one hand the number of programs and coaches who've done better than that in the B1G the last 25 years, and a few of those had situations that aren't happening again (like Matta's recruitment at OSU or Bo Ryan lucking into multiple low-star NBA-level players for his offense).

This is silly. Wisconsin got to the championship game and defeated Kentucky.

Ohio State got to a title game. Michigan St. USED to guard hard and make Final Fours. The floating Scum pool advanced and lost to a Louisville team that had to vacate all of its wins.

The only true "lucky" run I recall is Indiana in 2002.

The only thing making Illinois look less ridiculous is that Iowa and Purdue have collapsed multiple times.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #111 on: March 04, 2023, 09:13:02 PM »
Quote from: Miles Leonard on March 04, 2023, 02:13:23 PM
Groce was a good dude but he couldn't land a PG or big to save his life.

He was a hit with the moms though.

I almost literally bumped into him once. He seemed quite agitated about something.
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Custard

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #112 on: March 04, 2023, 10:42:17 PM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 04, 2023, 09:11:10 PM
This is silly. Wisconsin got to the championship game and defeated Kentucky.

Ohio State got to a title game. Michigan St. USED to guard hard and make Final Fours. The floating Scum pool advanced and lost to a Louisville team that had to vacate all of its wins.

The only true "lucky" run I recall is Indiana in 2002.

The only thing making Illinois look less ridiculous is that Iowa and Purdue have collapsed multiple times.

Seems like about a handful
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spark mandrill

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #113 on: March 04, 2023, 11:35:49 PM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 04, 2023, 09:07:29 PM
In regard to the bold portion: Since 2004-05, the program has never advanced past the first weekend. The tournament wins have been over giants like Air Force, Drexel, Chattanooga (narrowly), a mediocre UNLV, and Colora-doh.

Also since 04-05, we haven't made three straight tourneys (until this year, most likely, and only because of COVID), and only made 3/4 once (that run included Dee's senior year).  We've been a favored seed in the first round 5 times in that span and a top-4 seed three times (Dee's senior year, and the last two years).

Again, make the tourney every year, usually with a favored seed, and you'll break through.  That hasn't been how the last 20 years of Illinois basketball have looked overall, but it's kind of what the last ~4 years have looked like.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #114 on: March 04, 2023, 11:49:40 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 04, 2023, 10:42:17 PM
Seems like about a handful

Sigh. Yes, only 6 of the 11/12/14 teams made it to the final game of the tournament. Also, if we go back 25 years, then we can include another Final Four for Ohio St. and a title for Michigan St. And another Final Four for both Wisconsin and Michigan St.

Again, the original take was silly.
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frankiew

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #115 on: March 05, 2023, 07:41:55 AM »
remember when we blew the 2006 game against Washington, we were up 9 with 6:48 left and Washington went on a 18-6 run

or 2007 against Va Tech, up 10 with 4:29 left and Va Tech goes on a 12-0 run


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ThePAMan

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #116 on: March 05, 2023, 11:00:41 AM »
Quote from: sharethejuice on March 05, 2023, 07:41:55 AM
remember when we blew the 2006 game against Washington, we were up 9 with 6:48 left and Washington went on a 18-6 run

or 2007 against Va Tech, up 10 with 4:29 left and Va Tech goes on a 12-0 run

Free shots were an issue against Va Tech if I recall accurately
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #117 on: March 05, 2023, 11:07:13 AM »
Quote from: sharethejuice on March 05, 2023, 07:41:55 AM
remember when we blew the 2006 game against Washington, we were up 9 with 6:48 left and Washington went on a 18-6 run

or 2007 against Va Tech, up 10 with 4:29 left and Va Tech goes on a 12-0 run

The Washington game is particularly galling. I had just walked in the door from work, at about the high point you mention. Then I realized I had to go back for something. On the way there, a train blocks the crossing for several minutes. By the time I got what I needed and walked back in the door, Illinois had lost the game.

But hey, we beat the life out of Air Force!

The next year was equally spectacular. Near the end, Tech fouled Brian Randle (I think) or some other bricklayer at the FT line. The announcers, clearly clueless about the team, were astonished that VT FOULED! Um, that was the intention. Of course, the Illinois player clanged the first shot, and the demise continued.
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illinicalvin

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #118 on: March 05, 2023, 11:54:41 AM »
Quote from: IVMP on March 04, 2023, 11:49:40 PM
Again, the original take was silly.
The take is that no B1G school is in a position to expect the Sweet 16 every year with college basketball as it currently exists. That's not "silly." It's an opinion bordering on factual reality.
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IVMP

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Re: Sven's team comes visiting
« Reply #119 on: March 05, 2023, 02:10:48 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on March 05, 2023, 11:54:41 AM
The take is that no B1G school is in a position to expect the Sweet 16 every year with college basketball as it currently exists. That's not "silly." It's an opinion bordering on factual reality.

Factual reality for Illinois. And the chokers like Iowa.

Once again, the fan base expected Sweet Sixteens. And that's a big reason why Weber and Groce didn't last. And part of why Henson retired when he did, and part of why Kruger left for the NBA.
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