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Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #795 on: December 12, 2024, 01:27:10 PM »
Oh.

I thought you had said " The shareholders would rightly vote them all out. "
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murphstahoe

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #796 on: December 12, 2024, 01:46:51 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on December 12, 2024, 01:27:10 PM
Oh.

I thought you had said " The shareholders would rightly vote them all out. "

The board is showing complete malfeasance with this pay package. The shareholders would rightly vote them all out. Thing is, you can add Musk's shares and institutional shares and get a majority to keep the board in place because they have internal conflicts of interest. Which is sad because the mutual funds are - by not voting against the board, not being good stewards of THEIR shareholders

Can't tell if shitposter or just stupid
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #797 on: December 12, 2024, 02:30:52 PM »
They would  "rightly vote them all out."
But "Thing is, you can .... get a majority to keep the board in."

So far you've missed on the first one.
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illiniray

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #798 on: December 12, 2024, 02:52:13 PM »
People don't always do what is right. That is even a basic Republican concept that rule of law trumps majority rule.

Iirc Murph suggested the proxy voters had a vested interest in over paying CEOs. That slid a bit over my head.

Do all shareholders get to vote? Does Musk get to vote? Does Musk's shares plus proxy make a majority?

Why would proxies vote with Musk?
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murphstahoe

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #799 on: December 12, 2024, 02:52:35 PM »
Quote from: No one in Mn on December 12, 2024, 02:30:52 PM
They would  "rightly vote them all out."
But "Thing is, you can .... get a majority to keep the board in."

So far you've missed on the first one.

The *actual* shareholders - the people who own Tesla shares via the mutual funds, are not voting their shares. Non shareholders - the mutual funds - get to vote their shares. So you have non shareholders, voting against the interests of shareholders using the shares that belong to the shareholders. If the actual owners of the shares were voting their shares and had a clue, would vote the board out.

It's not THAT complicated to understand, I've only written it out four times.
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murphstahoe

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #800 on: December 12, 2024, 03:01:40 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 12, 2024, 02:52:13 PM
People don't always do what is right. That is even a basic Republican concept that rule of law trumps majority rule.

Iirc Murph suggested the proxy voters had a vested interest in over paying CEOs. That slid a bit over my head.

Do all shareholders get to vote? Does Musk get to vote? Does Musk's shares plus proxy make a majority?

Why would proxies vote with Musk?

I'm not going to disentangle the specific entanglements in the Tesla case, but the simplest toy example is this...

Person A is CEO of company X. He's on the board of Company Y
Person B is CEO of company Y. He's on the board of company X

So person B is responsible for setting the salary of Person A, and vice versa, via their membership on each other's board.
It's in their personal best interests to .. give each other a big fat raise. Getting a lot of additional stock options is worth more than their current stock going up by a buck by reducing dilution caused by the issuance of the shares.

The dirty pool can go all over the place, especially with the boards of large financial firms that get to vote a lot of shares. The CEO of some company that does business with SpaceX could be on the board of Goldman Sachs, tells Goldman Sachs to vote for the Musk pay package to keep Musk happy so they get the contract with SpaceX, etc...
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murphstahoe

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #801 on: December 12, 2024, 03:09:58 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on December 12, 2024, 02:52:13 PM
Do all shareholders get to vote? Does Musk get to vote? Does Musk's shares plus proxy make a majority?

Why would proxies vote with Musk?

Musk owns 20%. Vanguard owns 7.5% - er well, Vanguard's clients own 7.5% - mutual funds in total own 14%
18.4% is in ETFs - basically mutual funds also controlled by large fund companies including Vanguard
10% are institutional investors - basically large banks or hedge funds.

I think Tesla's governance is such that all shareholders get to vote, but the result is based on actual voters.

Musk plus mutual funds/ETFs add up to 63% - and remember most individual investors don't return their proxies for most votes, and you just need 50% + 1 of the actual returned proxies.
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murphstahoe

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #802 on: December 13, 2024, 12:38:25 AM »


The Musk package gets a good treatment, somwhere around 8 minutes
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Judge Judy

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #803 on: December 14, 2024, 09:19:31 AM »
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illiniray

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #804 on: December 14, 2024, 09:57:46 AM »
Conflating Confidential Informants with Undercover Agents with Agents Provocateur?
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Custard

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #805 on: December 14, 2024, 04:56:47 PM »
Hey at least you’re up to admitting it wasn’t just MAGA people there. That’s a start. I was told here a while back that the whole notion was ridiculous.
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illiniray

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #806 on: December 14, 2024, 05:17:43 PM »
I would hope the FBI has CIs within terrorist organizations. Maybe even imbedded under cover agents. Covert ops aren't all evil conspiracies. Sometimes they are the good guys.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #807 on: December 15, 2024, 12:28:03 PM »
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alum74

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #808 on: December 15, 2024, 01:28:19 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 15, 2024, 12:28:03 PM
https://futurism.com/twitter-traffic-plummeting

I have accounts on both platforms.  If significant potions of users leave Twitter/X, I think Musk will operate it at a loss just to have influence and the ability to manipulate the conversation.  One thing I've learned about Bluesky is that it is open-sourced, which may make it less vulnerable to a billionaire takeover.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2024, 01:59:57 PM by alum74 »
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Custard

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Re: Wtf is Elon Musk doing today?
« Reply #809 on: December 15, 2024, 02:17:48 PM »
It was nice of Jack to make a safe space echo chamber for the losers. Of course they’re going to go there.
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