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WTF happened to the WTF happened to the WTF happened with Trump today thread?

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fucking

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I'm kind of a law & order guy. I believe in prosecuting crimes. I think dangerous felons should be imprisoned.

I'm touched by your bleeding heart live & let live attitude, but it just encourages more crime.

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ThePAMan

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KAGlato, let me know where I can send you an autographed copy of the book -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9184687/How-Russia-began-grooming-Donald-Trump-40-years-ago-saving-financial-ruin-book-claims.html

EXCLUSIVE: Explosive new book claims the KGB began grooming 'young and vain' Donald Trump 40 years ago by saving him from financial ruin and turned him into a Russian asset who gave Putin 'everything he wanted' as president.

American Kompromat How the KGB Cultivated Donald Trump, and Related Tales of Sex, Greed, Power, and Treachery by Craig Unger is out January 26

The author claims Trump's association with Russia began in 1976 when he decided to make his move from developing real estate in Queens to Manhattan 

Trump was rescued multiple times from multiple bankruptcies by boatloads of Russian cash laundered through his real estate in the 1980s and 1990s 

When Trump became President, it was time to pay the piper and Trump gave Putin everything he wanted, Unger writes 

The author claims Trump was connected to Russians  through friend Jeffrey Epstein, who was supplying the Russians and Silicon Valley with underage girls 

Trump also appealed to the KGB because he was 'vain, narcissistic, highly susceptible to flattery and greedy,' the author writes 

The author interviewed high-level sources, Soviets who defected, former CIA officers, FBI counter-intelligent agents, lawyers and more for the book



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ILLove1997

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I'm kind of a law & order guy. I believe in prosecuting crimes. I think dangerous felons should be imprisoned.

I'm touched by your bleeding heart live & let live attitude, but it just encourages more crime.

I nominate you to run to replace Kim Foxx to help repair a great city's crime problem
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2025 - Pot stirrer of the year

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fucking

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Not absolutely all conservatives want young, uneducated black men and boys to stop killing each other.

UBI and legalization of drugs would put a cramp in their modus operandus.

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illiniray

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I'm kind of a law & order guy. I believe in prosecuting crimes. I think dangerous felons should be imprisoned.

I'm touched by your bleeding heart live & let live attitude, but it just encourages more crime.

I am kind of different  for a conservative leaning old white guy, in that I believe in rehabilitation.  Punishment exists primarily  to satisfy  the revenge motive; which is what' justice  for the victim' amounts to. Justice is or should actually be about helping  perps hold themselves accountable.

What  part of our current criminal justice system do you think discourages  crime? The only sane rationale for detaining someone is public safety, and their time in detention should be devoted to rehabilitation, not punishment.     
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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fucking

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Good of you to ask. As I've mentioned in various iterations of this forum, my Jurisprudence thesis was on punishment.

You overstate its focus on revenge. Retribution is one of its four purposes. Rehabilitation is another, then Deterrence  and Incapacitation. Some people add Restitution to that list, but that seems like a subchapter of Retribution to me.

Some people believe in rehabilitation, and some don't. In my opinion it works only because 20 year olds eventually, given time, become 60 year olds.

My continued belief is that Incapacitation is the only proven, non-ideological basis for punishment.

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murphstahoe

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You overstate its focus on revenge. Retribution is one of its four purposes. Rehabilitation is another, then Deterrence  and Incapacitation. Some people add Restitution to that list, but that seems like a subchapter of Retribution to me.


Deterrence works for rational people, but rational people also are far less prone to crime. Yet those same rational people project the concept of deterrence onto irrational people

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fucking

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You are correct.

I think the Trump experience has changed & will forever change the way we view mental health, rationality, human intelligence and so on. I had no idea there were so many crazy/easily led people as a percentage of population.

(One of my major cognitive deficiencies is projecting complete knowledge on others.)

« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 11:28:07 AM by fucking »

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ThePAMan

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You are correct.

I think the Trump experience has changed & will forever change the way we view mental health, rationality, human intelligence and so on. I had no idea there were so many crazy/easily led people as a percentage of population.

(One of my major cognitive deficiencies is projecting complete knowledge on others.)

How can this be? You lived through Scorat Bored's  Bruce Weber fanaticism.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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fucking

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Oh yeah!

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ThePAMan

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https://news.yahoo.com/russia-cultivating-trump-asset-40-122505054.html

Always trust content from.The PAMan, PAThey, or whatever else you want to call me.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Custard

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I stumbled across something similar the other day. I think it makes sense on the surface. I mean of course foreign powers are going to try to influence guys like Trump. My only gripe is that I haven’t seen a lot of “anti-western” talking points from Trump as this alleges. His rhetoric has been about as anti socialism/communism and pro USA as it can get. All delivered with the hallmark brashness and abrasiveness of a silver spoon New Yorker.

And his policies weren’t exactly pro Russian.

I find it interesting that in the wake of W’s Iraq fiasco many Democrats said we shouldn’t be the worlds police force and should stop spending money protecting other rich countries but now that same sentiment is anti-Western?
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fucking

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many Democrats said we shouldn’t be the worlds police force and should stop spending money protecting other rich countries
Bernie Bros and hippies, perhaps.

The Dem establishment is distinctly pro-engagement, GATT-friendly, UN-dedicated and WTO-adjacent.

They are just as globalist as the MAGAts say they are.

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ThePAMan

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I stumbled across something similar the other day. I think it makes sense on the surface. I mean of course foreign powers are going to try to influence guys like Trump. My only gripe is that I haven’t seen a lot of “anti-western” talking points from Trump as this alleges. His rhetoric has been about as anti socialism/communism and pro USA as it can get. All delivered with the hallmark brashness and abrasiveness of a silver spoon New Yorker.

And his policies weren’t exactly pro Russian.

I find it interesting that in the wake of W’s Iraq fiasco many Democrats said we shouldn’t be the worlds police force and should stop spending money protecting other rich countries but now that same sentiment is anti-Western?

For starters, how soon we forget Trump being mocked by the rest of the G-7 for trying to bring the Soviets back in and the Soviets, basically, hacking the entire Federal government on Trump's "watch."

He also allowed the Chinese to run amuck in Africa and win the "Trade War," for those that say I focus too much on the Soviets....
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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illiniray

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Good of you to ask. As I've mentioned in various iterations of this forum, my Jurisprudence thesis was on punishment.

You overstate its focus on revenge. Retribution is one of its four purposes. Rehabilitation is another, then Deterrence  and Incapacitation. Some people add Restitution to that list, but that seems like a subchapter of Retribution to me.

Some people believe in rehabilitation, and some don't. In my opinion it works only because 20 year olds eventually, given time, become 60 year olds.

My continued belief is that Incapacitation is the only proven, non-ideological basis for punishment.

Thanks for that. Not that I am a proponent of behaviorism, but Psych 100 teaches that reward (positive reinforcement) is more effective than punishment (negative reinforcement) in achieving behavior modification. 

How do you define punishment?  Depriving someone of life, liberty, or property?

I guess most would agree with incapacitation as a justification. 

Right now, "justice for the victim" is common theme. That almost always  amounts to capturing and punishing a perpetrator; which is revenge or, if you prefer, retribution. 

I say almost always, because restorative justice might be an exception.  From what little I know, it appears that might involve a mix of restitution for victim and and rehabilitation of the perpetrator. I gather they meet and the perp is supposed to experience empathy and remorse.

There are Buddhist practices in every tradition that are proven effective at arousing empathy and cultivating self reform -- Theravada metta bhanava, Tibetan tonglen,  Mahayana sange. Also, samatha-vippassa; some form of which is common to most traditions. 

Buddhism also teaches that moral conscience / private guilt and fear of public shame or embarrassment are what deters crime for most people.
 
 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 10:20:33 PM by illiniray »
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”