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Where we screwed up

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Custard

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2022, 12:52:04 AM »
I mean context is kind of important. Not making excuses but we have to be realistic.

Had to rebuild. We were likely a 5-6 seed two years ago and didn’t get to dance due to Covid. The immediate transfer provision wasn’t even around until last year. We had a lot of quality pieces returning so there didn’t seem a big need to go rebuild off the scrap heap like an ISU or Houston did.

Even so I’d still rather have our first B1G regular season championship than finish middle of the pack and go one game farther in a single elimination tournament. (Or maybe two since they got a favorable draw with Miami advancing.)

We would be in S16 if we had played Wisconsin today too. It’s all about being healthy and matchups. No one except the ISU fans will remember their little run by mid-April. We’ll have a banner hanging in our arena for a long time assuming the world doesn’t implode. May not mean much to some, but it’s a more lasting and defining achievement for most.

Our body of work over the last three years is objectively outstanding. Does that mean the work is done and there’s no room for improvement? Of course not.

Agree the program has to continue to grow and evolve and find ways to win at all phases. It starts with high level talent evaluation and acquisition. Scheme and development needs to be better too.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2022, 12:55:10 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 21, 2022, 12:52:04 AM
I mean context is kind of important. Not making excuses but we have to be realistic.

Had to rebuild. We were likely a 5-6 seed two years ago and didn’t get to dance due to Covid. The immediate transfer provision wasn’t even around until last year. We had a lot of quality pieces returning so there didn’t seem a big need to go rebuild off the scrap heap like an ISU or Houston did.

Even so I’d still rather have our first B1G regular season championship than finish middle of the pack and go one game farther in a single elimination tournament. (Or maybe two since they got a favorable draw with Miami advancing.)

We would be in S16 if we had played Wisconsin today too. It’s all about being healthy and matchups. No one except the ISU fans will remember their little run by mid-April. We’ll have a banner hanging in our arena for a long time assuming the world doesn’t implode. May not mean much to some, but it’s a more lasting and defining achievement for most.

Our body of work over the last three years is objectively outstanding. Does that mean the work is done and there’s no room for improvement? Of course not.

Agree the program has to continue to grow and evolve and find ways to win at all phases. It starts with high level talent evaluation and acquisition. Scheme and development needs to be better too.

Mostly reasonable, but you have to admit that Underwood has severely underperformed in his only two tournament appearances here. That’s concerning. Especially considering the golden goose probably isn’t coming back for his senior year.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Lkdog

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2022, 01:00:44 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 21, 2022, 12:52:04 AM

Agree the program has to continue to grow and evolve and find ways to win at all phases. It starts with high level talent evaluation and acquisition. Scheme and development needs to be better too.

We agree on this. We disagree on how much success we have had or how it is perceived.
I thought the team in the COVID year was our best in the last three years- and Underwood's best coaching job by far.
Too bad as we might have won a few games in tourney. The toughest team mentally we have had in years. 


 
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Custard

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2022, 01:16:08 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on March 21, 2022, 12:55:10 AM
Mostly reasonable, but you have to admit that Underwood has severely underperformed in his only two tournament appearances here. That’s concerning. Especially considering the golden goose probably isn’t coming back for his senior year.

Ok I will kind of buy that last year was a “severe underperformance” by seed.

But as we are seeing it’s becoming quite common to see 1 and 2 seeds knocked out early. We played a top ten KenPom and #16 ranked team in the second round for crying out loud. When was the last time that happened to a 1 seed in second round?

#1 Wichita State vs #8 Kentucky in 2014 is the closest I can find and Kentucky was 13th KenPom and 22nd in polls. Regardless of seed it’s hard to call losing to a top 20 team severely underperforming. There is simply more parity than there’s ever been.

And this year we lost to a team that was favored to beat us by 4.5 points. 4-5 games are usually a tossup. Historically, 4 seeds win their second round game 59% of the time while 5 seeds win 53% of the time. There’s literally no way you can spin losing what’s typically a toss up game as “severe underperformance.”
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fucking

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2022, 06:04:25 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on March 21, 2022, 12:55:10 AM
Mostly reasonable, but you have to admit that Underwood has severely underperformed in his only two tournament appearances here. That’s concerning. Especially considering the golden goose probably isn’t coming back for his senior year.
No analytics agree with you. But as long as we're all prepared to stipulate to your gut instincts, we can probably all agree with your conclusions.
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fucking

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2022, 06:06:59 AM »
Also, it's kinda charming to watch you lay down your aotc tracks in real time.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2022, 06:40:42 AM »
Quote from: Lkdog on March 21, 2022, 01:00:44 AM
We agree on this. We disagree on how much success we have had or how it is perceived.
I thought the team in the COVID year was our best in the last three years- and Underwood's best coaching job by far.
Too bad as we might have won a few games in tourney. The toughest team mentally we have had in years. 


 
I'm not sure the staff can impart mental toughness. Not to knock the players, but I think a lot of it has to come from them.
I think Underwood said during non-con that this is the softest team he's had.
We're a top 20-25 program again. We need to maintain that, and improve on it.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2022, 07:49:07 AM »
Robb is back! Yay!

Sure Custard, you can say this year we more or less “performed to seed.” But if we’re being honest, our last three tournament games were pure dog crap all the way around. That’s concerning.



 
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2022, 07:55:27 AM »
Quote from: fucking on March 21, 2022, 06:06:59 AM
Also, it's kinda charming to watch you lay down your aotc tracks in real time.

How so?

I guess Robb feels we’ve represented ourselves well in the last two tournaments. Not shocking.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2022, 07:57:39 AM »
FTR folks, I’m not talking just how far we’ve advanced. But it’s not like we played well and just lost to a good Loyola team. We’ve been pure dog crap in the tourney both years we were trendy picks to go deep.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Judge Judy

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2022, 08:45:33 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on March 21, 2022, 07:57:39 AM
FTR folks, I’m not talking just how far we’ve advanced. But it’s not like we played well and just lost to a good Loyola team. We’ve been pure dog crap in the tourney both years we were trendy picks to go deep.

We were also trendy picks to lose in the first round. Did you miss all that or even watch it?
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2022, 09:16:56 AM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on March 21, 2022, 08:45:33 AM
We were also trendy picks to lose in the first round. Did you miss all that or even watch it?

Did you hear that PAMan!? Chattanooga was underseeded!
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2022, 09:18:35 AM »
Quote from: Judge Judy on March 21, 2022, 08:45:33 AM
We were also trendy picks to lose in the first round. Did you miss all that or even watch it?

Could it be because we went into the tourney playing like horse dung?
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2022, 09:30:59 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 21, 2022, 01:16:08 AM
Ok I will kind of buy that last year was a “severe underperformance” by seed.

But as we are seeing it’s becoming quite common to see 1 and 2 seeds knocked out early. We played a top ten KenPom and #16 ranked team in the second round for crying out loud. When was the last time that happened to a 1 seed in second round?

#1 Wichita State vs #8 Kentucky in 2014 is the closest I can find and Kentucky was 13th KenPom and 22nd in polls. Regardless of seed it’s hard to call losing to a top 20 team severely underperforming. There is simply more parity than there’s ever been.

And this year we lost to a team that was favored to beat us by 4.5 points. 4-5 games are usually a tossup. Historically, 4 seeds win their second round game 59% of the time while 5 seeds win 53% of the time. There’s literally no way you can spin losing what’s typically a toss up game as “severe underperformance.”

We were an underdog because it was no secret our team was in extremely poor form. We had the talent to compete and beat Houston, and we got steamrolled by a team that was limited offensively (and a team that was 1-4 against quad 1 in the regular season). Yes, Houston is a solid team, but please don’t make it sound like it was always an uphill battle to beat the mighty Cougars. We’ve played like absolute horse crap 3 tourney games in a row, and there’s no way around that.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Where we screwed up
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2022, 09:34:57 AM »
If we’d have played well for a few games last year and throttled Chattanooga, I’d be more willing to write of Houston. 3 piss poor tourney games in a row is definitely a trend.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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