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WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2020, 02:41:02 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 06, 2020, 02:25:23 PM
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 06, 2020, 02:22:33 PM
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 06, 2020, 02:19:06 PM
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 06, 2020, 02:16:45 PM
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 06, 2020, 02:10:34 PM
As for the "everyone is better off" comment, from what I can tell that definitely hasn't been true in America.  From 1989 to 2018 the top 1% of Americans saw their net worth increase by $21,000,000,000,000.  The bottom 50% saw their net worth decrease by $900,000,000,000.  Is that sustainable in the long term?

I don't know what the solution is necessarily, but it seems pretty clear that "let's just get back to the status quo" isn't going to cut it as an answer for many of the people in that bottom 50%.

Well, more people are working. And, currently, wages appear to be rising at the lowest rungs of the economy for the first time since when? The Clinton administration? And it is being done through a mixture of a) local statutory minimum wage hikes and b) current reductionist immigration policies. It is "bad" enough that you have corporatists on the right calling for more immigration to stymie wage growth.

When you say "more people are working", I think it's safe to assume all of them come from the bottom 50% pool rather than the top-1% pool.  Why do you think that bottom 50% is actually losing value despite more of them working?  Why is the inequality accelerating so rapidly?

Is it currently accelerating? My understanding is that real wages are currently rising for the lowest rungs right now due to the tight labor market. Granted, that is only a dent in the difference between the schmoes working at McDonald's and Bezos, but still.

As I mentioned, it has been accelerating for thirty years.

I get that, but I am not sure that is technically true right here, right now, in the current job market because I have read that "real" wages have been rising. I would take that to mean they are gaining ground as they are rising faster than they are at the top.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2020, 10:29:10 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 06, 2020, 02:19:06 PM
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 06, 2020, 02:16:45 PM
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 06, 2020, 02:10:34 PM
As for the "everyone is better off" comment, from what I can tell that definitely hasn't been true in America.  From 1989 to 2018 the top 1% of Americans saw their net worth increase by $21,000,000,000,000.  The bottom 50% saw their net worth decrease by $900,000,000,000.  Is that sustainable in the long term?

I don't know what the solution is necessarily, but it seems pretty clear that "let's just get back to the status quo" isn't going to cut it as an answer for many of the people in that bottom 50%.

Well, more people are working. And, currently, wages appear to be rising at the lowest rungs of the economy for the first time since when? The Clinton administration? And it is being done through a mixture of a) local statutory minimum wage hikes and b) current reductionist immigration policies. It is "bad" enough that you have corporatists on the right calling for more immigration to stymie wage growth.

When you say "more people are working", I think it's safe to assume all of them come from the bottom 50% pool rather than the top-1% pool.  Why do you think that bottom 50% is actually losing value despite more of them working?  Why is the inequality accelerating so rapidly?

I remember a few years ago when the headlines were full of stories about highly educated people not being able to get a job, anyone know what’s going on with those folks?
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2020, 01:44:07 AM »
My new hot take on Super Tuesday is that plenty of Trump supporters have decided there is a pretty good chance that Trump is going to lose, so they decided they would like a voice in who he loses to, so they crossed over where it's allowed if they are GOP, voted in the Democratic primary as Independents, or even went to the trouble of re-registering. There is no downside to swapping parties unless maybe you expect to hold office, the upside is you get to actually vote in a meaningful primary.

This is a great reason for the GOP to cancel primaries if they think Trump might lose, to encourage this sort of crossover voting to make sure that if he loses, it's to the least worst option
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2020, 01:45:46 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 06, 2020, 09:45:04 AM
Hey Murph I sent you a PM not sure if you saw it or not. No big deal either way just letting you know.

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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2020, 05:18:47 AM »
Quote from: Custard on March 06, 2020, 10:29:10 PM
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 06, 2020, 02:19:06 PM
Quote from: ThePAMan on March 06, 2020, 02:16:45 PM
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 06, 2020, 02:10:34 PM
As for the "everyone is better off" comment, from what I can tell that definitely hasn't been true in America.  From 1989 to 2018 the top 1% of Americans saw their net worth increase by $21,000,000,000,000.  The bottom 50% saw their net worth decrease by $900,000,000,000.  Is that sustainable in the long term?

I don't know what the solution is necessarily, but it seems pretty clear that "let's just get back to the status quo" isn't going to cut it as an answer for many of the people in that bottom 50%.

Well, more people are working. And, currently, wages appear to be rising at the lowest rungs of the economy for the first time since when? The Clinton administration? And it is being done through a mixture of a) local statutory minimum wage hikes and b) current reductionist immigration policies. It is "bad" enough that you have corporatists on the right calling for more immigration to stymie wage growth.

When you say "more people are working", I think it's safe to assume all of them come from the bottom 50% pool rather than the top-1% pool.  Why do you think that bottom 50% is actually losing value despite more of them working?  Why is the inequality accelerating so rapidly?

I remember a few years ago when the headlines were full of stories about highly educated people not being able to get a job, anyone know what’s going on with those folks?

I do not. But that is an interesting question.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2020, 01:19:21 PM »
Here's a pretty good analysis that outlines the key problems with Bernie's campaign strategy:

Bernie's problem isn't 'the establishment.' It's his lack of support
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/2/1923555/-Bernie-s-problem-isn-t-the-establishment-it-s-his-lack-of-support
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illinicalvin

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2020, 01:29:31 PM »
Quote from: Custard on March 06, 2020, 10:29:10 PM
I remember a few years ago when the headlines were full of stories about highly educated people not being able to get a job, anyone know what’s going on with those folks?
Speaking solely for law, the full-time job market is drastically better than 2010-2015 but I think salaries remain pretty much flat-lined outside of the high-end firms. This causes/contributes to a number of collateral issues, but the core "can you get a job in the first place" is way better.
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SlatsGrobnik

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2020, 02:55:22 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on March 06, 2020, 02:10:34 PM
As for the "everyone is better off" comment, from what I can tell that definitely hasn't been true in America.  From 1989 to 2018 the top 1% of Americans saw their net worth increase by $21,000,000,000,000.  The bottom 50% saw their net worth decrease by $900,000,000,000.  Is that sustainable in the long term?

I don't know what the solution is necessarily, but it seems pretty clear that "let's just get back to the status quo" isn't going to cut it as an answer for many of the people in that bottom 50%.

Where does that stat come from? Maybe I'm jaded because I've read a lot of this kind of stuff, but how can anyone know what the wealth of large groups of people totals? We can't even get our president to release his taxes. And obviously there's no tax on wealth.

And my remark wasn't meant to be factual, just an example that wealth gap alone isn't a great indicator of tougher times for people.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 03:05:12 PM by SlatsGrobnik »
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2020, 10:49:38 AM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on March 07, 2020, 01:29:31 PM
Quote from: Custard on March 06, 2020, 10:29:10 PM
I remember a few years ago when the headlines were full of stories about highly educated people not being able to get a job, anyone know what’s going on with those folks?
Speaking solely for law, the full-time job market is drastically better than 2010-2015 but I think salaries remain pretty much flat-lined outside of the high-end firms. This causes/contributes to a number of collateral issues, but the core "can you get a job in the first place" is way better.

Total compensation for tech jobs in the Valley is way up. It's ridiculous. The only problem being a crappy 2 BR home in a bad part of a bad school district is 2.7 Million
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illinicalvin

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2020, 03:48:31 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on March 08, 2020, 10:49:38 AM
Quote from: illinicalvin on March 07, 2020, 01:29:31 PM
Quote from: Custard on March 06, 2020, 10:29:10 PM
I remember a few years ago when the headlines were full of stories about highly educated people not being able to get a job, anyone know what’s going on with those folks?
Speaking solely for law, the full-time job market is drastically better than 2010-2015 but I think salaries remain pretty much flat-lined outside of the high-end firms. This causes/contributes to a number of collateral issues, but the core "can you get a job in the first place" is way better.
Total compensation for tech jobs in the Valley is way up. It's ridiculous. The only problem being a crappy 2 BR home in a bad part of a bad school district is 2.7 Million
Shouldn't ever be a problem as long as the tech sector sustains itself for the next 30 years so the mortgages get paid off.
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Breal31

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2020, 07:29:26 AM »
If I may....please accept this visual demonstration of what The Joe Biden Express has, and will continue to do to the floundering campaign of Comrade Sanders

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fucking

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2020, 07:43:44 AM »
Tom Perez deserves some kind of medal.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2020, 01:55:33 PM »
Quote from: fucking on March 10, 2020, 07:43:44 AM
Tom Perez deserves some kind of medal.

Trump will probably give him one in thanks
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alum74

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2020, 12:09:55 PM »
Looking at the MI and MO primary results, it appears that a large chunk of Bernie’s support was more anti-Hillary than pro-Bernie, particularly among white males.   

https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1237570631761182720

The voter turnout was relatively high, and Biden won every county in MI, MO and MS.   That’s impressive, especially in MI.

One big problem for Bernie is that the percentage of young voters is almost the same or less than four years ago.  It didn't grow as it needed to.   Compared to 2016, Sanders also got less percent of the African American vote in MS, MO and MI this cycle.  African Americans are the most loyal voters of the Democratic party.  No one after 1988 has won the nomination without winning that key voting group.

I think many D voters and independents just want Trump gone (“Trump exhaustion”) and that makes everyone more risk averse.  Biden is not a polarizing figure and that makes him acceptable to even those who would prefer a different candidate.  People want stability, security and sanity, and that's what he represents.  Not exactly a recipe for revolution. 

I do appreciate what Bernie has brought to the table.  He's been successful in helping to frame much of the discussion in the D party (e.g., livable wage, affordable health care and zero carbon energy).  What he’s accomplished is significant. 
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 02:58:01 PM by alum74 »
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is wrong with Bernie Sanders today?
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2020, 12:14:46 PM »
Bernie got woke, went broke

If he would have stuck to the Bernie policies he had in 2016, he'd be crushing it now, but he sold out to the far left lunatics and is paying for it dearly.
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