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WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?

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Reacher

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5745 on: November 02, 2023, 07:57:50 AM »
Yep, “brilliant.”
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5746 on: November 29, 2023, 01:34:08 PM »
Is there anything more up to date on the origins of the virus that causes covid?

"Four of the eight intelligence agencies lean toward a natural origin for the virus, with "low confidence," while two of them — the DOE and the Federal Bureau of Investigation — support a lab origin, with the latter having "moderate confidence" about its conclusion."

"... the origin of the pandemic is also a scientific question. Virologists who study pandemic origins are much less divided than the U.S. intelligence community. They say there is "very convincing" data and "overwhelming evidence" pointing to an animal origin.'

"... scientists published two extensive, peer-reviewed papers in Science in July 2022, offering the strongest evidence to date that the COVID-19 pandemic originated in animals at a market in Wuhan, China."

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/28/1160162845/what-does-the-science-say-about-the-origin-of-the-sars-cov-2-pandemic
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5747 on: November 29, 2023, 01:44:02 PM »
Is there anything more up to date on the origins of the virus that causes covid?

"Four of the eight intelligence agencies lean toward a natural origin for the virus, with "low confidence," while two of them — the DOE and the Federal Bureau of Investigation — support a lab origin, with the latter having "moderate confidence" about its conclusion."

"... the origin of the pandemic is also a scientific question. Virologists who study pandemic origins are much less divided than the U.S. intelligence community. They say there is "very convincing" data and "overwhelming evidence" pointing to an animal origin.'

"... scientists published two extensive, peer-reviewed papers in Science in July 2022, offering the strongest evidence to date that the COVID-19 pandemic originated in animals at a market in Wuhan, China."

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/28/1160162845/what-does-the-science-say-about-the-origin-of-the-sars-cov-2-pandemic

Nichi, can we trust National Palestinian Radio?
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5748 on: November 29, 2023, 02:03:33 PM »
Robert Kadlec, who would have been Fauci's boss, has apparently said that they worked together to suppress a lab leak theory to minimize any negative impact on the commies.
Which, I guess if true, would indicate that unelected bureaucrats were impacting US foreign policy.


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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5749 on: November 29, 2023, 02:16:35 PM »
Nichi, can we trust National Palestinian Radio?

They are pretty much objective in reporting news. I don't many who like them because they present all sides.

The impression I have is the Intel community is divided.

Only the DoE (low confidence) and the FBI (moderate confidence) thinks it was a lab leak. I gather the former bases it on evidence of a cover up. That could just be Asian face saving?

The FBI won't say what they have.

The science seems to point to a naturally occuring virus that first emerged in tha animal market. Apparently most virologists and epidemiologists who have studied it in detail tend to agree?

None of it's conclusive as far as I can tell.

MARCH 3, 2023 4 MIN READ
Lab-Leak Intelligence Reports Aren’t Scientific Conclusions


"There are gaps in the ancestry of SARS-CoV-2 that need to be closed before a definitive scientific conclusion can be made."
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ridingthegrange

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5750 on: November 29, 2023, 02:24:48 PM »
Robert Kadlec, who would have been Fauci's boss, has apparently said that they worked together to suppress a lab leak theory to minimize any negative impact on the commies.
Which, I guess if true, would indicate that unelected bureaucrats were impacting US foreign policy.

The unelected bureaucrats have always impacted foreign and domestic policy.  They are usually our topical experts on science/intelligence/diplomacy etc...  Why wouldn't we rely on them? Or would you rather rely upon our elected experts dotting the halls of Congress? 

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5751 on: November 29, 2023, 02:31:18 PM »
Robert Kadlec, who would have been Fauci's boss, has apparently said that they worked together to suppress a lab leak theory to minimize any negative impact on the commies.
Which, I guess if true, would indicate that unelected bureaucrats were impacting US foreign policy.

That may or may not be true. It still isn't scientific evidence either way. This sort of thing is might be the political evidence Intel agencies look at. The Kadlec character is also allegedly connected to the Trump admin's slow response.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5752 on: November 29, 2023, 03:32:47 PM »
They are pretty much objective in reporting news. I don't many who like them because they present all sides.

The impression I have is the Intel community is divided.

Only the DoE (low confidence) and the FBI (moderate confidence) thinks it was a lab leak. I gather the former bases it on evidence of a cover up. That could just be Asian face saving?

The FBI won't say what they have.

The science seems to point to a naturally occuring virus that first emerged in tha animal market. Apparently most virologists and epidemiologists who have studied it in detail tend to agree?

None of it's conclusive as far as I can tell.

MARCH 3, 2023 4 MIN READ
Lab-Leak Intelligence Reports Aren’t Scientific Conclusions


"There are gaps in the ancestry of SARS-CoV-2 that need to be closed before a definitive scientific conclusion can be made."
Michael Worobey's wet market theories have been pretty well debunked.
Maybe Ralph Baric's work at UNC, that he has been fighting tooth and nail to hide, could be of some help.
Maybe Eddie Holmes' work at the U of Sydney could be released.

Sun light is the best medicine, I'm told.

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alum74

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5753 on: November 29, 2023, 03:51:31 PM »
Michael Worobey's wet market theories have been pretty well debunked.
Maybe Ralph Baric's work at UNC, that he has been fighting tooth and nail to hide, could be of some help.
Maybe Eddie Holmes' work at the U of Sydney could be released.

Sun light is the best medicine, I'm told.

It is, but we'll need China's cooperation in conducting a comprehensive investigation into the origins of COVID-19. 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 03:53:38 PM by alum74 »

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5754 on: November 29, 2023, 04:08:01 PM »
 "If SARS-CoV-2 had a laboratory origin, it would have been amplified in a laboratory through a process of serial passage typically needed to recover high-titer stocks from environmental samples. In this process, the deletion of the furin cleavage site is expected, offering a signature of laboratory handling. However, early isolates of SARS-CoV-2 show the furin cleavage site to be intact, arguing against introduction into humans after laboratory cell culture."
 ...

"... laboratory experiments would likely have included the adaptation of a virus in common laboratory animal models such as mice to study it with ease. Thus, a laboratory-derived virus released into the population would reasonably be expected to carry these adaptive markers in their genomes. However, early isolates of SARS-CoV-2 did not carry mutations that confer adaptation to common animal models,"
...

"Early cases in Wuhan involved two lineages, distinguishable by the viral genome sequence, suggesting that there were multiple events of spillover into humans. This situation is more likely to have resulted from zoonosis than a lab accident as lab accidents are relatively rare, and both lineages of SARS-CoV-2 were found in sequences from the Hunan market"

More:

28 March 2023
A Critical Analysis of the Evidence for the SARS-CoV-2 Origin Hypotheses
Authors: James C. Alwine, Arturo Casadevall, Lynn W. Enquist https://orcid.org/0000-0001-9968-8586, Felicia D. Goodrum https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6646-7290 fgoodrum@arizona.edu, Michael J. Imperiale
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mbio.00583-23
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5755 on: November 29, 2023, 04:10:00 PM »
It is, but we'll need China's cooperation in conducting a comprehensive investigation into the origins of COVID-19.

This is exactly what I mean by just letting it lie basically. Why aren’t we as a society beating their doors down to get answers? We’ve invaded and occupied countries for killing 3500 Americans.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5756 on: November 29, 2023, 04:15:17 PM »
This is exactly what I mean by just letting it lie basically. Why aren’t we as a society beating their doors down to get answers? We’ve invaded and occupied countries for killing 3500 Americans.

Uh, because invading a billion Chinese would not be that easy? Also, there is the complex economic ties? But, this is why Sleepy Joe proposed and signed some bills to bring some manufacturing home....
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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5757 on: November 29, 2023, 04:19:03 PM »
Even so, the evidence we have favors zoonotic origins over a genetically engineered virus / lab leak.   

The one thing we seldom hear about is the possibility of a naturally occuring virus / lab leak.

Still, the circumstantial evidence that it jumped from animals to humans at the Hunan market is strong.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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illiniray

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5758 on: November 29, 2023, 04:20:51 PM »
Name dropping is not evidence.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is the deal with the caronavirus?
« Reply #5759 on: November 29, 2023, 04:24:44 PM »
Uh, because invading a billion Chinese would not be that easy? Also, there is the complex economic ties? But, this is why Sleepy Joe proposed and signed some bills to bring some manufacturing home....

Not suggesting we invade by any means. Just saying if this thing killed millions and literally nothing has been done to hold anyone accountable for it, is that doing right by the dead? Or doing anything to prevent it from happening again? Saying welp China won’t work with us 🤷🏻‍♂️ is some pretty fucking weak sauce. Soft on crime, soft on illegal immigration, soft on China. 
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