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WTF is going to happen in the next week?

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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2020, 11:58:07 AM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on November 05, 2020, 09:12:53 AM
how about everyone pays their share and feels the pain so they can maybe you know - hold the crony dipshit politicians accountable for their reckless spending habits?

That's what a progressive tax system does.

People who make more money benefit more from taxes. Jeff Bezos has 171 Billion dollars because we have paid taxes to build roads, airports, and subsidize the USPS. Including building roads specifically to his distribution centers so they can handle the volume of freight. We benefit by being able to order random crap and have it come to our door, he's benefitted 171 billion. Wanna trade?
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alum74

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #61 on: November 05, 2020, 02:41:10 PM »
While I think the Fair Tax proposal was a good approach for dealing with Illinois's budgetary problems, I can understand why it failed.   

Poor messaging on the part of Pritzker and lack of support from many Democratic leaders, including Lightfoot.   Maybe the actual rates should have been included in the amendment.  Another problem is that a large chunk of the revenue would have to be applied to the pension shortfall, not property tax relief.  That’s the big elephant in the room that many people don’t understand or want to address.   It was caused by decades of bi-partisan, bogus-balanced budgets that failed to contribute the required amounts to the pension systems each year.   

And then there’s the “trust issue.”  “Because Madigan….” (boy do I wish that old fart would retire); recent doubling of the gas tax and other fee increases; blank check concerns; and a general disconnect that people have with state government.   As one pundit put it, “many people think of the state as a separate, alien entity from themselves.  As if state debt isn’t their debt as well.  Or that state “spending” isn’t related to their families.”

Well, the voters have spoken.  Perhaps Pritzker should have followed Jerry Brown’s “scorched-earth” model in CA by making deep cuts in government first.  Start closing prisons, IDOT facilities, SOS offices and community colleges.   Less funding for hospitals, local governments, workforce training, wastewater treatment upgrades, mental health programs, public safety equipment and higher education too.   Do we need EIU, Chicago State and WIU?   Do we need two state fairs?   

Looks like it’s time to put an “austerity budget” on the table for the legislators, citizens and interest groups to review and decide how best to move forward.   Some legislators and groups have said we can cut our way out of the mess, but they never provide the specifics.   Don’t give me that 10%, 15% or more “across the board” cuts dodge.  Which programs, services, grants, facilities and equipment should be cut and by how much?   

Let’s see what the details looks like and have an honest discussion.  Until people take the time to see real numbers and what taxes pay for (discretionary, non-discretionary spending, etc.), I don’t think there will be meaningful progress in dealing with the state budget crisis.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2020, 03:03:28 PM »
Quote from: murphstahoe on November 05, 2020, 11:55:19 AM
Do you have kids? Are you being exposed to this?

The teachers I see are having to do 1-1 zoom sessions with kids and parents over and over, trying to figure out the algorithm for each kid to get them to make progress. In a room, the teachers have a fairly compact task. On Zoom, they are dealing with asking a kid who is looking directly at the camera a question, and that kid not answering because the kid has fired up Minecraft or is doing Google Hangouts. Homework slips, and they have to chase down kids to find out why. They have to deal with stressed out parents screaming at them or begging them to help them figure out how to crack the problem.

Eventually these kids will take MAP tests and when the scores suck, the teachers are going to have to defend how poorly things went in a pandemic.

Now imagine you are a special needs teacher.

I do not envy those teachers one bit. Their jobs are substantially harder now.

I am.dealing with this right now. It is nowhere close to what you describe,  but my kid is in HS. My kid even says it sucks.

I also know  parents who have special need kids and it is a complete disaster.
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2020, 03:06:57 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on November 05, 2020, 02:41:10 PM
While I think the Fair Tax proposal was a good approach for dealing with Illinois's budgetary problems, I can understand why it failed.   

Poor messaging on the part of Pritzker and lack of support from many Democratic leaders, including Lightfoot.   Maybe the actual rates should have been included in the amendment.  Another problem is that a large chunk of the revenue would have to be applied to the pension shortfall, not property tax relief.  That’s the big elephant in the room that many people don’t understand or want to address.   It was caused by decades of bi-partisan, bogus-balanced budgets that failed to contribute the required amounts to the pension systems each year.   

And then there’s the “trust issue.”  “Because Madigan….” (boy do I wish that old fart would retire); recent doubling of the gas tax and other fee increases; blank check concerns; and a general disconnect that people have with state government.   As one pundit put it, “many people think of the state as a separate, alien entity from themselves.  As if state debt isn’t their debt as well.  Or that state “spending” isn’t related to their families.”

Well, the voters have spoken.  Perhaps Pritzker should have followed Jerry Brown’s “scorched-earth” model in CA by making deep cuts in government first.  Start closing prisons, IDOT facilities, SOS offices and community colleges.   Less funding for hospitals, local governments, workforce training, wastewater treatment upgrades, mental health programs, public safety equipment and higher education too.   Do we need EIU, Chicago State and WIU?   Do we need two state fairs?   

Looks like it’s time to put an “austerity budget” on the table for the legislators, citizens and interest groups to review and decide how best to move forward.   Some legislators and groups have said we can cut our way out of the mess, but they never provide the specifics.   Don’t give me that 10%, 15% or more “across the board” cuts dodge.  Which programs, services, grants, facilities and equipment should be cut and by how much?   

Let’s see what the details looks like and have an honest discussion.  Until people take the time to see real numbers and what taxes pay for (discretionary, non-discretionary spending, etc.), I don’t think there will be meaningful progress in dealing with the state budget crisis.

How about a state pension tax amendment and reform? And my wife works at a state college. That one Republican fuck in the pro tax ad is getting a huge pension for working one year in state government.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #64 on: November 05, 2020, 04:45:52 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 05, 2020, 03:03:28 PM
I am.dealing with this right now. It is nowhere close to what you describe,  but my kid is in HS. My kid even says it sucks.

I also know  parents who have special need kids and it is a complete disaster.
High schoolers have fairly well developed executive functioning skills. You know it sucks because he tells you it sucks. I know it sucks because it's all encompassing for me. I can't just hand him a computer and say "see you at lunch"

2nd Graders doing zoom school is equivalent to an autistic/downs child in High School. They just don't have the skills to do it self contained. The threads on my kid's school's parent's email list are pretty much 75% how to block X/Y/Z from the computers, how to set up a VNC to watch the screens, which new game/etc... we need to block, how to set YouTube filters (the kids are told to use YouTube to research subjects at which point they decide to research ROBLOX strategies or watch movie clips).

While trying to sort that out is a parent's responsibility, the final upshot is that the work productivity for kids in a class is extremely variable, and hard to monitor. So it's very difficult to lesson plan. I get a message asking if my kid needs extra support because he's behind on his homework, and I'm confused because we did it together. But because he didn't click the "turn in button", the teacher has no idea.
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murphstahoe

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #65 on: November 05, 2020, 04:55:36 PM »
Quote from: alum74 on November 05, 2020, 02:41:10 PM
While I think the Fair Tax proposal was a good approach for dealing with Illinois's budgetary problems, I can understand why it failed.   

Poor messaging on the part of Pritzker and lack of support from many Democratic leaders, including Lightfoot.   Maybe the actual rates should have been included in the amendment.  Another problem is that a large chunk of the revenue would have to be applied to the pension shortfall, not property tax relief.  That’s the big elephant in the room that many people don’t understand or want to address.   It was caused by decades of bi-partisan, bogus-balanced budgets that failed to contribute the required amounts to the pension systems each year.   

And then there’s the “trust issue.”  “Because Madigan….” (boy do I wish that old fart would retire); recent doubling of the gas tax and other fee increases; blank check concerns; and a general disconnect that people have with state government.   As one pundit put it, “many people think of the state as a separate, alien entity from themselves.  As if state debt isn’t their debt as well.  Or that state “spending” isn’t related to their families.”

Well, the voters have spoken.  Perhaps Pritzker should have followed Jerry Brown’s “scorched-earth” model in CA by making deep cuts in government first.  Start closing prisons, IDOT facilities, SOS offices and community colleges.   Less funding for hospitals, local governments, workforce training, wastewater treatment upgrades, mental health programs, public safety equipment and higher education too.   Do we need EIU, Chicago State and WIU?   Do we need two state fairs?   

Looks like it’s time to put an “austerity budget” on the table for the legislators, citizens and interest groups to review and decide how best to move forward.   Some legislators and groups have said we can cut our way out of the mess, but they never provide the specifics.   Don’t give me that 10%, 15% or more “across the board” cuts dodge.  Which programs, services, grants, facilities and equipment should be cut and by how much?   

Let’s see what the details looks like and have an honest discussion.  Until people take the time to see real numbers and what taxes pay for (discretionary, non-discretionary spending, etc.), I don’t think there will be meaningful progress in dealing with the state budget crisis.

Durbin throws Madigan under the bus and Pritzker hits the gas.

https://news.wttw.com/2020/11/04/we-paid-heavy-price-durbin-madigan-s-leadership-presidency-and-senate

Illinois really is a tricky beast and when you have a polarizing character like Madigan it makes it really hard. You have this huge population center in Chicago that rightfully dominates the overall picture, but state government is sort of abstract to them because the Capital is basically on another planet. Downstate is an agricultural behemoth - so even despite the lower populations it's still a serious economic player. It makes for some very serious demographic splits - like you've left one Nation and gone to another. I never feel that way moving around California - there is very big geographic and even slight cultural diversity - but even though LA feels like another planet, and San Diego burritos have god damn french fries in them, it's another planet with your own kin. Maybe it's because the Giants and Dodgers play 12 times a year, and because people move back and forth between areas.

But despite those challenges in Illinois, the two regions have a symbiosis that keeps Illinois from becoming Ohio. Chicago is a true hub unlike Cleveland/Cincy/Columbus/Indy and isn't a trainwreck like Detroit. It provides an economic engine that creates more opportunity than Iowa.

I totally agree they should revamp the Universities. Feels to me that a second true public flagship is needed, and re-org the rest. It's getting harder to get into UIUC as the demand has increased but you can only expand the school so much.
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ILLove1997

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2020, 05:54:40 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 05, 2020, 03:06:57 PM
How about a state pension tax amendment and reform? And my wife works at a state college. That one Republican fuck in the pro tax ad is getting a huge pension for working one year in state government.

we can start by cutting FURG's ridiculous pension!
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ThePAMan

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #67 on: November 05, 2020, 06:45:50 PM »
Quote from: ILLove1997 on November 05, 2020, 05:54:40 PM
we can start by cutting FURG's ridiculous pension!

Exactly.
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fucking

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2020, 07:00:11 PM »
Yep.

Social Security was intended to keep people secure. And judging from the SS payments I've seen, that's what they do.

Pensions shouldn't be like winning the lottery. They should keep people fed, with a roof over their heads. It's insane that SURS pays six figures annually to individuals who don't work.

My dad is making a shit ton of money from y'all's taxes, and it's all going to end abortion and elect Republicans.
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alum74

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2020, 07:57:31 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 05, 2020, 03:06:57 PM
How about a state pension tax amendment and reform? And my wife works at a state college. That one Republican fuck in the pro tax ad is getting a huge pension for working one year in state government.

A pension amendment?  To do what?  I suppose you could try to change Big Jim Thompson’s compounded COLA gift.  But that won’t solve the underfunded pension liability that’s grown over the last decade or so.

And I don’t think Illinoisans will vote for a constitutional amendment that significantly reduces pension benefits for existing State retirees.  The workers paid all their costs into the system.  The State chose other priorities than the pension payment.   You and I both voted for these idiots.   We’re all part of the problem.   

Interestingly the pension debt was getting paid down while Quinn was governor; when the income tax was increased to 5%.  But that tax hike had a sunset provision and Rauner called for it to expire at the beginning of his term.  The legislature obliged. 

As to “reform.”  In the last 10 years, the General Assembly has passed two laws that reduced pension benefits.   The State now has a three-tiered pension system for workers, with newer hires (2011> and 2017>) having a lower benefits package.

As to the Republican “fuck” who got a last-minute pension bump for working in State government.  Why should state workers get penalized for that?  The legislature has been whittling away at those perks.   For the 95% of state pensioners, the pensions are modest and reasonable (annual average of $28,600 for SS members and $37,198 for non-SS members.  Source: AARP).   Ask your legislator to introduce a bill that imposes an income tax on six-figure pensions for those fucks who gamed the State system.

Bottom line: both cuts and revenue will be needed to solve the State’s budget problem.   Maybe there’s a “grand bargain” out there that will require everyone to take a haircut, including state workers, service industries, large corporations, retirees and Ken Griffin.   
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illinicalvin

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2020, 09:39:27 PM »
Amending the pension thing would pass easily but for it never seeing a ballot.

The Fair Tax issue was terribly marketed and poorly explained. They should've put a minimum income in the amendment itself.
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illinicalvin

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2020, 09:56:04 PM »
Quote from: fucking on November 04, 2020, 03:33:32 PM
Gosh. Scrolling through 14 years of (mostly spam) emails containing the word "Pelosi" went faster than I thought.

me
To
letters@sfchronicle.com
Oct 8, 2006 at 10:13 PM
Nancy Pelosi can give her party a boost by declaring that she will not seek the Speakership.

Now may be the best time for the Democrats to persuade all voters, in all districts, in all states to vote for their candidates.  But people in my neck of the woods, the "heartland" would be a lot more excited to vote for a party not led by one of the old school -- one of the members of the House that has been entrenched inside the beltway since the last time a ruling party got tossed out.

We've seen Ms. Pelosi on the Sunday chat shows too many times.

It's not that Ms. Pelosi strikes the average voter as being too far left -- which I gather she does.  But more importantly, she comes off as a party shill.  She seems more interested in promoting the party than promoting equitable concepts of governance.

Put more damningly, she is Tom DeLay in different clothes.

Right now there's a real chance to stop the madness in Washington.  Ms. Pelosi can advance the greater cause by ceasing her personal quest for power.


Rob McColley
Urbana, Illinois
2 years pre-Obama and this is still true.

There's talk of a revolt against Pelosi in favor of Jeffries or someone else. Would be welcome, along with dumping Perez.
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Custard

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2020, 06:21:36 AM »
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ridingthegrange

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2020, 08:14:02 AM »
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fucking

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Re: WTF is going to happen in the next week?
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2020, 08:15:53 AM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on November 05, 2020, 09:56:04 PM
dumping Perez.

I'd be interested to see the outcome of an election featuring a slate of Bernie- esque ideologues. Who knows, maybe the socialists are right.

Personally, I strongly favor the Spanbergers and Slotkins. I'm grateful to Perez for running them.

Rick Wilson said Any McGrath and MJ Hagar would have done better if they were men, and called on the Dems to recruit conservative white men with military backgrounds if they want to win Red State elections.
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