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Poll

Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?

No
5 (35.7%)
Yes
9 (64.3%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: January 26, 2024, 10:59:11 AM

Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?

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Lkdog

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Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« on: January 21, 2024, 10:59:11 AM »
Am interested to hear the sentiment of people here.

Not going to get into the weeds of the processes that UI did or did not follow to date.
Not going to get into the merits of the case.

As it stands right now he is out on bond for a felony charge.

Simple question.

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ThePAMan

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2024, 11:01:32 AM »
Apply the process correctly is my vote.
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2024, 11:13:06 AM »

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Beach Bum

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2024, 03:38:34 PM »
Great poll. All 6 of us on this board with split views.

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Judge Judy

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2024, 03:43:28 PM »
It’s not the University’s responsibility or place to determine innocence or guilt. Until he’s been proven guilty, he should play. Plain and simple. Otherwise suspending him and not playing is punishing him while he’s presumed innocent. How in the world is that ok?!
Because FOX News told me so…

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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2024, 04:14:43 PM »
It’s not the University’s responsibility or place to determine innocence or guilt. Until he’s been proven guilty, he should play. Plain and simple. Otherwise suspending him and not playing is punishing him while he’s presumed innocent. How in the world is that ok?!

The judge's ruling was to grant the TRO in large part because the University's Office of Student Conflict Resolution didn't hold a trial, hear his evidence and whatever evidence they could get (probably basically none) against him, and determine his innocence or guilt

I tend to agree it shouldn't be their responsibility - in fact, think it's kind of crazy to rule that it's the University's responsibility to determine that - but that they didn't do that is the reason he is able to play.

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Judge Judy

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2024, 04:19:06 PM »
The judge's ruling was to grant the TRO in large part because the University's Office of Student Conflict Resolution didn't hold a trial, hear his evidence and whatever evidence they could get (probably basically none) against him, and determine his innocence or guilt

I tend to agree it shouldn't be their responsibility - in fact, think it's kind of crazy to rule that it's the University's responsibility to determine that - but that they didn't do that is the reason he is able to play.

Yeah, I agree with that. I was referring to Lkdog’s response. I agree completely with the judges ruling on the TRO and letting him play.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2024, 04:21:44 PM »
Yeah, I agree with that. I was referring to Lkdog’s response. I agree completely with the judges ruling on the TRO and letting him play.

Fair enough, but that's a direct contradiction to what you said in your last post: "It’s not the University’s responsibility or place to determine innocence or guilt."

He is able to play specifically because the judge ruled it WAS the university's responsibility to determine innocence or guilt via the OSCR regulation, and he wasn't granted that.

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Judge Judy

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2024, 04:24:01 PM »
Fair enough, but that's a direct contradiction to what you said in your last post: "It’s not the University’s responsibility or place to determine innocence or guilt."

He is able to play specifically because the judge ruled it WAS the university's responsibility to determine innocence or guilt via the OSCR regulation, and he wasn't granted that.

Oh my apologies, as I must have misread something or misunderstood.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2024, 04:25:40 PM »
It’s not the University’s responsibility or place to determine innocence or guilt. Until he’s been proven guilty, he should play. Plain and simple. Otherwise suspending him and not playing is punishing him while he’s presumed innocent. How in the world is that ok?!

If your daughter's pre-school teacher had a pending felony rape charge against him, would you defend him on the grounds that he is innocent until proven guilty?  Would you be okay with him teaching your daughter?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 04:29:40 PM by spark mandrill »

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Judge Judy

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2024, 04:39:10 PM »
If your daughter's pre-school teacher had a pending felony rape charge against him, would you defend him on the grounds that he is innocent until proven guilty?  Would you be okay with him teaching your daughter?

You know there’s a big difference between those things. You’re being intentionally and intellectually dishonest, and you know it…
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ILLINICHIEF

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2024, 04:42:02 PM »
If your daughter's pre-school teacher had a pending felony rape charge against him, would you defend him on the grounds that he is innocent until proven guilty?  Would you be okay with him teaching your daughter?


If you truly believe in the 5th amendment and persons overall rights, regardless of the situation, then I think you would have to do just that, and let the legal process follow suit...why does it have to be a him?

Trust the process can't just apply to sports??? Can it??
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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2024, 05:06:18 PM »
You know there’s a big difference between those things. You’re being intentionally and intellectually dishonest, and you know it…


A big difference between what things?

Wouldn't punishing your kid's teacher while he's presumed innocent also not be okay, if you believe in the presumption of innocence?

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Lkdog

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2024, 06:01:12 PM »
There is conflation here by some of due process rights in a court of law (with which we all agree) with any rights of a student who is deemed in violation of compliance with student or athletic policy code of conduct required in order to continue participating in an extracurricular activity.

They are not the same.

There is a reason no one can name one NCAA athlete who continued to participate while awaiting trial on felony rape charges.

That does not mean they are expelled from school, or even necessarily lose their scholarship that year. But representing the university on a team is not a legal right.

And while we are on the subject- most employers in Illinois are at will and can terminate an employee for any reason at any time as long as it is not illegal.



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spark mandrill

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Re: Should Terrence Shannon play while awaiting trial?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2024, 06:13:22 PM »
There is conflation here by some of due process rights in a court of law (with which we all agree) with any rights of a student who is deemed in violation of compliance with student or athletic policy code of conduct required in order to continue participating in an extracurricular activity.

They are not the same.

There is a reason no one can name one NCAA athlete who continued to participate while awaiting trial on felony rape charges.

That does not mean they are expelled from school, or even necessarily lose their scholarship that year. But representing the university on a team is not a legal right.

And while we are on the subject- most employers in Illinois are at will and can terminate an employee for any reason at any time as long as it is not illegal.

I don't think it's an accident.

A lot of people are willing to bend / ignore a lot of their stated values, and argue a lot of things, if they perceive some personal benefit to them.

As you saw by JJ's response, the presumption of innocence isn't going to apply evenly to everyone who's been charged with a crime - the JJ's of the world aren't out there ranting about how you violate some accused inner city shooter's rights by holding him in jail before he's convicted of the crime.  It applies stringently when it would benefit me, and in other cases - maybe.

The real truth is that 'innocent until proven guilty' does not and has never meant 'there can be no consequences if you haven't been convicted of a crime'. The only reason people are arguing that is because they see a personal benefit.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2024, 06:38:53 PM by spark mandrill »