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TSJ suspended charged with rape

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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #570 on: January 22, 2024, 11:37:11 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 22, 2024, 09:33:17 PM
Then they would have the same result as now.

I am not sure they would punish him without an actual finding.

Odds are if they started the investigation when the cop was told what was going to happen, they would have found out quick that they probably are not going to be able to get far in any investigation and have to drop the whole thing or let it sit until the preliminary hearing.

Instead they apparently, and intentionally per Custard, violated a student-athlete's Constitutional rights for PR purposes.
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Custard

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #571 on: January 22, 2024, 11:56:47 PM »
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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #572 on: January 23, 2024, 12:03:20 AM »
Quote from: Custard on January 22, 2024, 11:56:47 PM


Wait until the motion for his attorneys' fees comes!

The names change down there every decade, or less, but the institutional issues never seem to go away.
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illinicalvin

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #573 on: January 23, 2024, 01:08:49 PM »
Parrish's point is part of why a TRO and injunction are improper. He has no right to play at all.

I personally do not think he should be playing but it's hard to fault Brad for processes out of his control.

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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #574 on: January 23, 2024, 01:33:59 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on January 23, 2024, 01:08:49 PM
Parrish's point is part of why a TRO and injunction are improper. He has no right to play at all.

I personally do not think he should be playing but it's hard to fault Brad for processes out of his control.

Apparently he does have a right to play, according to a federal court judge applying case law.

And your opinion that he should not be playing is based on?
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spark mandrill

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #575 on: January 23, 2024, 01:50:00 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on January 23, 2024, 01:08:49 PM
Parrish's point is part of why a TRO and injunction are improper. He has no right to play at all.

I personally do not think he should be playing but it's hard to fault Brad for processes out of his control.

This is pretty much exactly where I’m at.  I think he shouldn’t be playing and I think it’s kind of crazy that a judge said we cannot suspend him - but it’s what the judge thinks, not what I (or Underwood, or Whitman) thinks that matters here.

That said, people going after Underwood for playing him make no sense to me.  It’s his hide on the line if he openly contradicts a judge’s order, and suddenly refusing to play him is a de facto suspension.  It seems like he might be personally vulnerable if he defied the judge like that.

I gotta say I find it interesting how many Illini fans are sudden due process purists.  I don’t remember Illini fans being mad about how Iowa violated Pierre Pierce’s Constitutional rights, or arguing there’s no way Alabama should be able to suspend Brandon Miller.  I remember a lot of Illini fans with sentiments directly opposed to those though.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2024, 01:52:07 PM by spark mandrill »
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Jobu

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #576 on: January 23, 2024, 02:01:38 PM »
Brad doesn't have to play him if he doesn't want to. He can DNP him, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. He has control of the playing time of his roster.

With that being said, if I were him and he were available to play (not suspended), I would play him. But he doesn't have to.
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spark mandrill

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #577 on: January 23, 2024, 02:14:56 PM »
Quote from: Jobu on January 23, 2024, 02:01:38 PM
Brad doesn't have to play him if he doesn't want to. He can DNP him, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. He has control of the playing time of his roster.

With that being said, if I were him and he were available to play (not suspended), I would play him. But he doesn't have to.

He and the university would have a lawsuit against them before they went to sleep the night they DNP’d him.  Have no idea if contempt would be realistic in that situation but that’d be pretty open defiance of a ruling from a federal judge - in general, seems like a bad idea.

Maybe that’s worth it, I have no idea, but there’s no question that if the justification is that him being suspended and not given the chance to defend himself is unfairly harming his value, a DNP accomplishes the same thing.
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Jobu

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #578 on: January 23, 2024, 02:17:24 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on January 23, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
He and the university would have a lawsuit against them before they went to sleep the night they DNP’d him.  Have no idea if contempt would be realistic in that situation but that’d be pretty open defiance of a ruling from a federal judge - in general, seems like a bad idea.

Maybe that’s worth it, I have no idea, but there’s no question that if the justification is that him being suspended is unfairly harming his value, a DNP accomplishes the same thing.

Well, then that's a lawsuit that Brad should fight, and win.

I'm all for players having more control, and getting paid, and etc. But ultimately, a coach should have total control over who he chooses to play in a game. If he doesn't want to play TSJ, he shouldn't have to. If he doesn't want to play Coleman Hawkins, he shouldn't have to.
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Jobu

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #579 on: January 23, 2024, 02:18:30 PM »
The judge said he shouldn't be suspended. That doesn't mandate actual playing time, granted by the coach.
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illiniray

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #580 on: January 23, 2024, 02:26:46 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on January 23, 2024, 01:33:59 PM
Apparently he does have a right to play, according to a federal court judge applying case law.


The Judge didn't say there is a right to play college basketball. My take is she said Terrence Shannon has earned or acquired property and liberty interests in playing basketball at UI. She didn't use those exact words.

Her reasoning and citations can be found in her ruling.

I have a copy of the ruling. Maybe there is a hassle free file sharing site where I could upload it?

« Last Edit: January 23, 2024, 02:30:00 PM by illiniray »
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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #581 on: January 23, 2024, 02:29:24 PM »
Pierce was suspended by Iowa, but no clue if the school followed its policies at the time or not. I note that Wikipedia cites an ESPN article which notes that Iowa's actions were "atypical, as the school usually waits for the legal process to play out before making a decision, but the school took swift action because of the severity of the charge." He pled guilty to a lesser charge and judgment was deferred. He sat out a year after the plea bargain. He then came back and played. He then got arrested after a domestic violence incident and was kicked off the team. He was convicted and served time.

The allegations against Pierce were particularly nasty in nature.

As for Miller, no charges were ever filed against him in connection with the murder. It appears he was truthful with the cops, whereas others were not, and his version of events matched video and witness statements.
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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #582 on: January 23, 2024, 02:35:13 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on January 23, 2024, 02:26:46 PM
The Judge didn't say there is a right to play college basketball. My take is she said Terrence Shannon has earned or acquired property and liberty interests in playing basketball at UI. She didn't use those exact words.

Her reasoning and citations can be found in her ruling.

I have a copy of the ruling. Maybe there is a hassle free file sharing site where I could upload it?

She cited 2 cases that preventing a kid from "competition" created irreparable harm.
Quote
Other courts have held that preventing student-athletes from competition creates an irreparable harm for which there is no adequate legal remedy. See Ganden v. NCAA, 1996 WL 680000, at *6 (N.D. Ill. Nov. 21, 1996)....see also Hutsonville Cmty. Unit Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. Illinois High Sch. Ass’n, 195 N.E.3d 662, 666-667 (5th Dist. 2021)(high school senior athlete granted TRO “because failure to compete for a year was the type of injury that could not be corrected by monetary judgment”)..

We just had some All-Conference kid at a Hinsdale HS put back on a basketball team after the kid sued because he was not picked for the team because he had complained about a coach harassing him. Granted, the school caved.
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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #583 on: January 23, 2024, 02:39:27 PM »
Quote from: Jobu on January 23, 2024, 02:18:30 PM
The judge said he shouldn't be suspended. That doesn't mandate actual playing time, granted by the coach.

This is correct. But she also held

Quote
The obligations of Defendants pursuant to this Order are to be construed as broadly as possible.

Granted, no judge is going to weigh that he needs to play x minutes versus y minutes. But playing no minutes might lead to contempt of court finding absent a good explanation other than "Fuck you, judge." Brad Underwood does not want to have to deal with that shit.
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ThePAMan

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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape
« Reply #584 on: January 23, 2024, 02:41:35 PM »
How about instead of blaming a federal court judge, how about this? If you are going to discipline him, how about following your own fucking policies. It really is not that tough, except for the people in Champaign, apparently.
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