TSJ suspended charged with rape

Reacher

40112
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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #240 on: January 04, 2024, 02:52:57 PM »

Quote from: ThePAMan on January 04, 2024, 02:44:53 PM

Yes, I would.

And talk about what?

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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

spark mandrill

4043
+312/-40

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #241 on: January 04, 2024, 02:54:33 PM »

A significant portion of the regulars on this board exist to troll people in the same way, of course. PAMan hasn't made a non-trolling post in at least a year from what I've seen.

I think giving TSJ the benefit of the doubt is great - I have seen very few if any people say "lock him up and throw away the key", nor should people say that. Anyone who does is being just as gross and dumb as the people saying the stuff I'm talking about (which, notably, is actually prominent among Illini fans online, unlike the 'lock him up' take). That is very different than what so many Illini fans have been doing though.

I've seen a ton of Illini fans with absolutely zero way to know saying he's totally innocent and the alleged victim is greedy and the DA is corrupt and the LPD dropped the ball and any number of other evidence-less theories to declare him innocent, when the truth is that no one here knows any of that at all. It's clear if you gave a fuck about how this board represents the University it would be different from jump street, but I do kind of give a fuck how terrible our fans look doing that shit. They represent me, too, as a lifelong fan and alumnus. I never had the highest opinion of our fanbase - certainly not of most of the regulars here, including you - but some of the shit I've seen about this issue is fucking gross and it's extremely disheartening to watch people who are smart enough to know better continue to defend it, even if that's exactly what you expected of them.

None of us here are naive or stupid enough to think this is related to 'justice' or some criminal justice reform initiative. It's about fucking basketball and hopefully no one here is dishonest enough to pretend I'm wrong about that.

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spark mandrill

4043
+312/-40

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #242 on: January 04, 2024, 02:57:02 PM »

I do find it funny that you could call people fucking retards and fags and be openly bigoted here all day and very few people would say shit about it, but if you do something that boils down to being a decent person and telling people to wait until they know the facts to spout off the whole board comes down on you like you kicked their dog.

The two things that have gotten me the most scorn on this board by far are: being upset when I thought someone I believed to be my friend apparently died, and saying we should wait until we have SOME evidence rather than unsourced Twitter rumor before we start acting like the alleged victim of this felony rape allegation is greedy and the DA is corrupt and everyone was just out to get a guy because he plays for Illini basketball.

Pretty telling, and not in a particularly good way.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2024, 03:11:56 PM by spark mandrill »

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Judge Judy

11937
+120/-1813

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #243 on: January 04, 2024, 03:22:38 PM »

Quote from: Custard on January 04, 2024, 02:43:48 PM

Despite some posters claiming the moral high ground like it’s Iwo Jima, I don’t see any problem with posters on an Illini forum speculating on internet rumors regarding the Illini’s star player. It’s just not a big deal. Certainly not something to get all self-righteous about.

I actually kind of take a little exception that we apparently aren’t allowed to give TSJ—by all accounts a really good kid—some benefit of the doubt. It’s not just because we want him unsuspended and it’s kind of insulting that insinuation has been made. Pretty much everyone, here or on Twitter, has said if he’s indeed guilty that he should pay the price.

I also don’t think HQ posters should be lumped in with accounts on Twitter that literally exist to troll people.

Thank you.

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Judge Judy

11937
+120/-1813

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #244 on: January 04, 2024, 03:23:31 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on January 04, 2024, 02:54:33 PM

A significant portion of the regulars on this board exist to troll people in the same way, of course. PAMan hasn't made a non-trolling post in at least a year from what I've seen.

I think giving TSJ the benefit of the doubt is great - I have seen very few if any people say "lock him up and throw away the key", nor should people say that. Anyone who does is being just as gross and dumb as the people saying the stuff I'm talking about (which, notably, is actually prominent among Illini fans online, unlike the 'lock him up' take). That is very different than what so many Illini fans have been doing though.

I've seen a ton of Illini fans with absolutely zero way to know saying he's totally innocent and the alleged victim is greedy and the DA is corrupt and the LPD dropped the ball and any number of other evidence-less theories to declare him innocent, when the truth is that no one here knows any of that at all. It's clear if you gave a fuck about how this board represents the University it would be different from jump street, but I do kind of give a fuck how terrible our fans look doing that shit. They represent me, too, as a lifelong fan and alumnus. I never had the highest opinion of our fanbase - certainly not of most of the regulars here, including you - but some of the shit I've seen about this issue is fucking gross and it's extremely disheartening to watch people who are smart enough to know better continue to defend it, even if that's exactly what you expected of them.

None of us here are naive or stupid enough to think this is related to 'justice' or some criminal justice reform initiative. It's about fucking basketball and hopefully no one here is dishonest enough to pretend I'm wrong about that.

Oh Jesus, here we go with some more self-righteous nonsense bullshit.

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illiniray

9387
+630/-2101

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #245 on: January 04, 2024, 03:37:58 PM »

I don't think anybody believes the charge was brought because TSJ plays ball for UI. There is a reasonable theory that the DA and ADA might be inclined to bring severe forcible rape charges based on flimsy evidence and a strange "rape by misrepresentation" theory.

There are broader issues too.

For most crimes, there is a presumption of innocence. However, in the case of rape, we are told women don't bring false charges, so we must believe the victim.

It's almost as of it's guilty until proven innocent, and even then, still guilty.

Iirc, a couple studies found only 2% of rape charges are false and an outlier has 8%?

Apparently, these are the proven false cases, cleared by DNA, solid alibis, etc. it does not mean the other 92 to 98% were proven true.

Many are saying zero tolerance means he can't possibly return until the case is settled.

We shall see. That is the purpose of the 3 person panel.

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spark mandrill

4043
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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #246 on: January 04, 2024, 03:43:09 PM »

The 3 person panel has met.

He isn't being reinstated with a pending felony rape charge.

If the charge is dropped or they manage to plea down to some misdemeanor simple battery charge, he probably will be. If he pleads to the lesser sexual battery charge, he's probably off the team either way. And those things are certainly possible. But we won't, and shouldn't, reinstate him with a pending felony rape charge.

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illiniray

9387
+630/-2101

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #247 on: January 04, 2024, 04:13:57 PM »

There is no timeline on a decision by the 3 person panel.

The panel exists solely to make reinstatement possible while criminal charges are still pending.

If reinstatement prior to resolution of charges were not possible; then the automatic suspension would be it, and no need for a review by a panel.

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spark mandrill

4043
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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #248 on: January 04, 2024, 04:26:20 PM »

If you think they are going to reinstate him with a felony rape charge pending you are not thinking very clearly at all.

They surely could've kicked him off the team permanently and it seems did not, but they weren't going to (and should not) reinstate him with a pending rape charge.

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ThePAMan

31950
+609/-2449
Because "PussyMan" and "PenisMan" were trademarked

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #249 on: January 04, 2024, 04:49:56 PM »

Quote from: Judge Judy on January 04, 2024, 03:23:31 PM

Oh Jesus, here we go with some more self-righteous nonsense bullshit.

It is what he does best. We all have our purpose here.

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Custard

12335
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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #250 on: January 04, 2024, 05:09:34 PM »

I cannot imagine a situation where they reinstate him with a pending felony rape charge unless by some miracle they have ironclad proof of his innocence before the court has it.

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illiniray

9387
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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #251 on: January 04, 2024, 05:34:28 PM »

It's possible the 3 person panel is just for show and has no actual power to make an independent decision based a preponderance of the available evidence..

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“Taking a trip? Where to?” -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

Custard

12335
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Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #252 on: January 04, 2024, 11:38:46 PM »

Quote from: spark mandrill on January 04, 2024, 02:57:02 PM

I do find it funny that you could call people fucking retards and fags and be openly bigoted here all day and very few people would say shit about it…

…Pretty telling, and not in a particularly good way.

A couple of things are working against you here:

First, you openly admit this is basically Frat Bro IlliniBoard, then complain that you’re self-righteous indignation wasn’t well-received.

Second, you’re backing your position with a bunch of “gross” anecdotal evidence gleaned from ________ that isn’t even congruent with the inherent grossness of the Cesspool itself.

I’ve said it before and I’ll reiterate. You’re obviously an intelligent, reasoned, articulate, sensitive and passionate person. I’ve long enjoyed your contributions to various Illini forums over the years. I know that when I am scrolling through the threads and I see your user name, I’m about to read something that had thought put into it. I’m happy that you circle back here once in a while to be a yang to our yin, so to speak.

At the same time, you should know by now that when you come here and perform the self-righteous victim bit, you’re going to get the Tempo treatment.

It’s just my personal opinion that you’ve always been the guy that is soooo damned worried about being right all the time that you never stop to consider that everyone else is just having fun in between work calls and family obligations.

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Reacher

40112
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You should see my passer rating

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #253 on: January 04, 2024, 11:44:21 PM »

I actually see both sides of this argument. No strong stand on either.

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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

Reacher

40112
+1074/-1063
You should see my passer rating

Re: TSJ suspended charged with rape

« Reply #254 on: January 04, 2024, 11:46:33 PM »

Quote from: Custard on January 04, 2024, 11:38:46 PM

you’re going to get the Tempo treatment.

Nice for someone to finally acknowledge this is a thing.

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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.