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THE JFC Thread!

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ThePAMan

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #705 on: December 04, 2023, 11:34:49 AM »
Quote from: jobu on December 04, 2023, 10:35:04 AM
Trey Lance had all of that, and he crashed and burned.

Now "Justin Lance" is in Dallas, but Tempo says "What if Fields was playing for the 49ers?" Well, they did  that already and shipped his ass out of town.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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ThePAMan

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #706 on: December 04, 2023, 11:38:59 AM »
If they draft a QB in the 1st and keep Fields, Fields will act like a little bitch to get traded. It will be far worse than the whiny "they are throwing too much at me" BS we saw earlier this year. Just watch.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #707 on: December 04, 2023, 11:53:32 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 11:23:28 AM
I don’t see how. If Fields busts you dump him at the deadline and now Willliams or Maye is your starter and he’s had half a season to settle in. If Fields is great, you can easily trade the understudy for a nice return. He’ll still be a rookie.

If Fields bust you dump him at the deadline for considerably less than you can get for him right now, which already is likely not a TON.

If Fields is great, you can trade Williams or Maye for considerably less than you can get for the first overall pick right now.

You lose value either way, and for no real return.

It's like the worst of all worlds type move.

I think it’s worth asking though - what do you do if he neither busts nor is great?  If he’s terrible then the decisions easy, but what if he’s just average like he has been?  That’s the scary thing - it’s not hard to foresee a really similar season next year and people still arguing to keep Fields based on some unrealized potential.  That would be an incredibly dangerous move though - if Fields comes back next year he needs to produce no matter if the OL or OC or WR corps is perfect.  There can’t continue to be excuses in year 4 with 9 figures and the team’s cap flexibility on the line. I’m obviously a bit appalled that there are still so many excuses in year 3 after spending all last year and off-season hyping this year’s team up.

If they keep Fields, so be it.  They need to maximize the return and roster help out of those two top-5/10 picks.  They cannot justify spending one of them on a QB.  If they move on from Fields, they need to take a shot at one of the top QBs.  They can't justify moving on from Fields and then not taking the shot at one of those top guys.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 12:05:10 PM by spark mandrill »
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No one in Mn

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #708 on: December 04, 2023, 11:55:09 AM »
GM, HC and OC decisions will be made before the draft. Draft day decisions will come after, and $100 million for Fields next contract will be part of those decisions.
Warren, Poles, Flus and Getsy all came in after Fields. Whomever is in the GM, HC and OC positions will have input. Moving on from Fields will undoubtedly be a front and center discussion.
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ThePAMan

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #709 on: December 04, 2023, 11:56:23 AM »
Quote from: Mn on December 04, 2023, 11:55:09 AM
GM, HC and OC decisions will be made before the draft. Draft day decisions will come after, and $100 million for Fields next contract will be part of those decisions.
Warren, Poles, Flus and Getsy all came in after Fields. Whomever is in the GM, HC and OC positions will have input. Moving on from Fields will undoubtedly be a front and center discussion.

If it has not been decided already and this is all showcasing to try and trade him.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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No one in Mn

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #710 on: December 04, 2023, 12:07:54 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 04, 2023, 11:56:23 AM
If it has not been decided already and this is all showcasing to try and trade him.
If they want to showcase Just Fields, they may as well run him 16 times a game rather than showcase his pocket abilities.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #711 on: December 04, 2023, 12:22:01 PM »
Thought it was pretty interesting reading all Tempo's posts in this thread from the offseason, still on the front page: https://illinihq2.com/index.php/topic,821.0.html

In that thread he posted "data analysis" showing the Bears were the most improved team.  He posted a video about how the Bears are 'building up for Justin Fields to prove he's the guy'.  He posted a quote from EQ St. Brown about the Bears going worst to first.  He posted about how the Bears were picked to finish second in the NFC North.  He posted a video about how the Bears are "doing everything right" and had a "near perfect offseason building around Justin Fields".  He posted a poll showing 91% of Bears fans are 'confident' the franchise is moving in the right direction.  Someone else posted a list of the "top-5 NFC QBs entering the 2023 season", Fields was #2.  Tempo's main concern about the list was that Brock Purdy at #4 was too high.  These were all in the first four pages of the 81 page thread.

And now that Fields hasn't been that good, it's because the franchise sucks, they haven't done anything to build around him, etc.

This is why I'm so concerned - we literally just did this thing where we decided Fields had 'turned the corner' based on a few games, and at the time the exact same people trashing the franchise now were selling that NEXT year (i.e., this year) things would be much better because of all the improvement and moves from the FO.  They aren't much better.

To be clear, not trying to rip Tempo for having been optimistic. I’m trying to point out the dangers in doing this exact same thing again.  It’s like we forgot that everyone expected a big jump from the Bears this year.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 12:30:36 PM by spark mandrill »
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ThePAMan

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #712 on: December 04, 2023, 12:34:11 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 02, 2023, 03:51:06 AM
Quote
[C] The Bears will be ready to make a big jump next year IMO.....We are still 2nd in the league in cap space....That’s a big if, I know, but they look to be swimming in draft capital the way U of I swims in Asian butthole.

Quote from: ThePAMan on December 02, 2023, 08:07:52 AM
C. You said this same shit last year. If you say it every year you will undoubtedly get it right and then claim you were Ahead of the Curve.

Wash, rinse, repeat....
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #713 on: December 04, 2023, 02:46:22 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on December 04, 2023, 11:34:49 AM
Now "Justin Lance" is in Dallas, but Tempo says "What if Fields was playing for the 49ers?" Well, they did  that already and shipped his ass out of town.

Such a moronic take that Lance and Fields are the same guy because they have similar athleticism. Simpleton gonna simpleton.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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ThePAMan

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #714 on: December 04, 2023, 02:47:59 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 02:46:22 PM
Such a moronic take that Lance and Fields are the same guy because they have similar athleticism. Simpleton gonna simpleton.

They both have the same lack of QB skills. We saw it on display with Lance and have seen it with Fields. Shanahan isn't wasting his time with Fields as a starter.

Hell, Kaepernick was a far better QB than Fields.
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Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #715 on: December 04, 2023, 02:57:52 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 04, 2023, 11:53:32 AM
If Fields bust you dump him at the deadline for considerably less than you can get for him right now, which already is likely not a TON.

If Fields is great, you can trade Williams or Maye for considerably less than you can get for the first overall pick right now.

You lose value either way, and for no real return.

It's like the worst of all worlds type move.

I think it’s worth asking though - what do you do if he neither busts nor is great?  If he’s terrible then the decisions easy, but what if he’s just average like he has been?  That’s the scary thing - it’s not hard to foresee a really similar season next year and people still arguing to keep Fields based on some unrealized potential.  That would be an incredibly dangerous move though - if Fields comes back next year he needs to produce no matter if the OL or OC or WR corps is perfect.  There can’t continue to be excuses in year 4 with 9 figures and the team’s cap flexibility on the line. I’m obviously a bit appalled that there are still so many excuses in year 3 after spending all last year and off-season hyping this year’s team up.

If they keep Fields, so be it.  They need to maximize the return and roster help out of those two top-5/10 picks.  They cannot justify spending one of them on a QB.  If they move on from Fields, they need to take a shot at one of the top QBs.  They can't justify moving on from Fields and then not taking the shot at one of those top guys.

I suppose it’s probably true that you’d lose some value. But IF…I went that route my #1 priority would be getting the franchise quarterback. I’d have two spins at the wheel. I might be willing to trade some “value” for extra insurance. I have not headd of any trade offers for Fields that sound too great to turn downs. I said HERE as recently as a week or so ago I’d entertain a top 35-40 or better pick for Fields. If you keep him and draft one, you likely give up some value, but have a greater chance on making sure you get it right, which IMO is the larger goal. And again, I don’t recall saying “this is what I would do.” It’s what I’d do if I was INTENT on drafting one at the top. I’ll eat the return on Fields to be sure I’m making the right move.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #716 on: December 04, 2023, 03:04:08 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 04, 2023, 12:22:01 PM
Thought it was pretty interesting reading all Tempo's posts in this thread from the offseason, still on the front page: https://illinihq2.com/index.php/topic,821.0.html

In that thread he posted "data analysis" showing the Bears were the most improved team.  He posted a video about how the Bears are 'building up for Justin Fields to prove he's the guy'.  He posted a quote from EQ St. Brown about the Bears going worst to first.  He posted about how the Bears were picked to finish second in the NFC North.  He posted a video about how the Bears are "doing everything right" and had a "near perfect offseason building around Justin Fields".  He posted a poll showing 91% of Bears fans are 'confident' the franchise is moving in the right direction.  Someone else posted a list of the "top-5 NFC QBs entering the 2023 season", Fields was #2.  Tempo's main concern about the list was that Brock Purdy at #4 was too high.  These were all in the first four pages of the 81 page thread.

And now that Fields hasn't been that good, it's because the franchise sucks, they haven't done anything to build around him, etc.

This is why I'm so concerned - we literally just did this thing where we decided Fields had 'turned the corner' based on a few games, and at the time the exact same people trashing the franchise now were selling that NEXT year (i.e., this year) things would be much better because of all the improvement and moves from the FO.  They aren't much better.

To be clear, not trying to rip Tempo for having been optimistic. I’m trying to point out the dangers in doing this exact same thing again.  It’s like we forgot that everyone expected a big jump from the Bears this year.

And it’s pretty crazy how you refuse to acknowledge things such as injuries happen. I just showed you that perhaps your top 3 offensive linemen have missed an average of 50% of snaps. Not to mention earlier run the year when the defense was playing 3rd stringers. Particularly in the secondary. Coaching can play a role, plus or negative. Of course Fields can help or hurt himself by his play. Rookies can perhaps not help as much as projected (Tyler Scott?).

And there’s the possibility that maybe, just maybe…my analysis was less than perfect.

And maybe underestimated the difficulty in assimilating 30+ new faces. And injuries haven’t helped that.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #717 on: December 04, 2023, 03:11:29 PM »
What’s lost in all of this is that the Bears are 4-4 in their last 8, and really should be 6-2. Funny how things got better once the team got healthier and a few games together. Cue PAMan and his “thanks 2-2 Tyson Bagent” post.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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No one in Mn

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #718 on: December 04, 2023, 03:13:31 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 04, 2023, 03:04:08 PM
And maybe underestimated the difficulty in assimilating 30+ new faces.
I just can't imagine that the guy who brought in Claypool and gave ESB an extension and went scorched earth on any talent on the roster would have trouble with that.

Could be, not should be, 3-5 also in their last 8.

With Bagent getting 2 of the wins.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 03:20:14 PM by Mn »
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #719 on: December 04, 2023, 03:19:31 PM »
Quote from: Mn on December 04, 2023, 03:13:31 PM
I just can't imagine that the guy who brought in Claypool and gave ESB an extension and went scorched earth on any talent on the roster would have trouble with that.

Could be, not should be, 3-5 also.

Let the record show that you posted.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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