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THE JFC Thread!

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #480 on: December 03, 2023, 01:23:56 PM »
And Custard made a good point. He went from the “next Patrick Mahomes,” to maybe “the guy drafted after Drake Maye.” And it wasn’t me and Twitter Bears fans that made that happen.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #481 on: December 03, 2023, 01:24:25 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:21:40 PM
FTR, I don’t care much about the crying. But it is fun to make fun of him for it.

It's certainly fun making fun of the meathead morons who have made it a thing.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #482 on: December 03, 2023, 01:26:01 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:23:56 PM
And Custard made a good point. He went from the “next Patrick Mahomes,” to maybe “the guy drafted after Drake Maye.” And it wasn’t me and Twitter Bears fans that made that happen.

It's also not a thing that has happened, really.  He's still expected by most people following to go 1st overall.

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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #483 on: December 03, 2023, 01:28:52 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 03, 2023, 01:24:25 PM
It's certainly fun making fun of the meathead morons who have made it a thing.

Lol
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #484 on: December 03, 2023, 01:29:38 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 03, 2023, 01:26:01 PM
It's also not a thing that has happened, really.  He's still expected by most people following to go 1st overall.

Most. Not all.  3 months ago he was a slam dunk. It was the “Caleb Williams lottery.”
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #485 on: December 03, 2023, 01:30:36 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:29:38 PM
Most. Not all.  3 months ago he was a slam dunk. It was the “Caleb Williams lottery.”

And still is, most likely.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #486 on: December 03, 2023, 01:31:12 PM »
There wasn’t a single mock draft where he wasn’t #1 a few months ago.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #487 on: December 03, 2023, 01:32:33 PM »
Let's say this: if there were more valid on-field criticisms, there's no question you'd be repeating them.  The fact that nearly all the criticisms you have are stretchy off-field shit that other great players have done and not had held against them, that have nothing to do whatsoever with his ability to do the job the Bears would be hiring him to do, is extremely telling.

End of the day, I'm not super bullish on Caleb - I'm not qualified to evaluate an NFL QB.  If the people who are evaluate him highly, none of the stretchy shit you've been bringing up would talk me off of him.  Same for Drake Maye or whoever else.

What I'm pretty confident of at this point is that Justin Fields is most likely not going to turn into the elite QB who wins you games in the NFL.  He makes far too many mistakes, takes too many sacks, is not nearly consistent enough as a passer.  It would be a mistake to hold onto him and pass on picking a top-QB, rare as it is to have a shot at one of those guys.

Doesn't mean that the top QBs would be better, no one here can know that, but hanging onto Fields is 1. a pretty hard sell given his play thusfar in his career, and 2. going to be very expensive a year from now.  When you have a chance to take a guy with a higher ceiling on a far more team-friendly contract than you'll have Fields on after next year, it would be very stupid not to take them IMO.

And I don't see a way you can take one of those guys and also keep Fields.  That is a disaster waiting to happen, especially the part of that that requires putting Fields in a do-or-die situation AGAIN, for the second year in a row, with his third OC and third HC.  You've talked a lot about 'setting him up to fail'; nothing would set him up to fail more than taking a QB at 1 or 2, and then telling Fields his job is on the line with a new OC and HC next year.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2023, 01:38:49 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #488 on: December 03, 2023, 01:44:42 PM »
Yeah, I suppose I would. I also don’t think it’s a given Caleb Williams is an upgrade over Justin Fields. Especially given their draft profiles are remarkably similar. Only there were no potential maturity issues with Fields that I’m aware of.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #489 on: December 03, 2023, 01:49:43 PM »
Also, I’m not saying the Bears shouldn’t draft Caleb Williams. I totally understand why they would. I’m just saying I don’t think I’d do it. And if they drafted Williams and brought back Fields for a 4th year, I’d probably call that prudent.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #490 on: December 03, 2023, 01:51:06 PM »
Rolling it back with Fields, but having your premium insurance policy would probably be a great move.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #491 on: December 03, 2023, 01:52:29 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:49:43 PM
Also, I’m not saying the Bears shouldn’t draft Caleb Williams. I totally understand why they would. I’m just saying I don’t think I’d do it. And if they drafted Williams and brought back Fields for a 4th year, I’d probably call that prudent.

I can't think of a worse scenario for either dude than for them to both be here, with Fields having $150-200m on the line, with a new coach and a new OC, having not spent that draft capital on anything that helps Fields but instead on a top prospect at his position that if things go your way you won't even want to keep and will likely have to sell cheap.

As I've stated a couple times, the absolute worst case here is that we're still arguing about whether Justin Fields is good enough in December 2024.  Your idea here seems like it's intentionally set up to make that happen.  I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "if you're not sure if you have a QB, then you don't."  As of now, the Bears don't.  If they keep Fields and still don't a year from now, you might as well burn this whole era to the ground and start over.
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #492 on: December 03, 2023, 01:53:31 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:51:06 PM
Rolling it back with Fields, but having your premium insurance policy would probably be a great move.

Yes, why spend a lot of resources on one position where you can start one guy when you can spend twice the resources and have two guys for the one position?

It's a terrible idea.  Fields isn't some aging legend QB that's going to retire after the season.  You can't pick his replacement with a top-5 pick and then pay him $150m the next offseason.  If you're sticking with Fields you need to spend those high picks on MHJ or a tackle (or, maybe, an edge rusher if you feel safe on the OLine).

It's not hard to foresee a situation, were they to take Williams/Maye and ALSO hang onto Fields where you're telling people a year from now "well what did you expect from Fields when they spent their high pick on another QB instead of a WR or OL last year?!"
« Last Edit: December 03, 2023, 01:57:39 PM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #493 on: December 03, 2023, 01:56:11 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on December 03, 2023, 01:44:42 PM
Yeah, I suppose I would. I also don’t think it’s a given Caleb Williams is an upgrade over Justin Fields. Especially given their draft profiles are remarkably similar. Only there were no potential maturity issues with Fields that I’m aware of.

No one has said that it's a given, only that Caleb has consistently been evaluated better than Fields was.  If that weren't true, Fields would've been a top-3 pick and he wasn't even a top-3 QB picked in his draft.

What you do seem to think is a given is that Justin Fields suddenly, after 40 some starts, turns into a much better QB than he has been.  Not only do I not think that's a given, I don't think it's particularly likely.

What I know is that Fields, thusfar, has not been good enough at QB.  That's true regardless of Caleb Williams.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2023, 01:58:49 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: THE JFC Thread!
« Reply #494 on: December 03, 2023, 02:03:30 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on December 03, 2023, 01:52:29 PM
I can't think of a worse scenario for either dude than for them to both be here, with Fields having $150-200m on the line, with a new coach and a new OC, having not spent that draft capital on anything that helps Fields but instead on a top prospect at his position that if things go your way you won't even want to keep and will likely have to sell cheap.

As I've stated a couple times, the absolute worst case here is that we're still arguing about whether Justin Fields is good enough in December 2024.  Your idea here seems like it's intentionally set up to make that happen.  I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "if you're not sure if you have a QB, then you don't."  As of now, the Bears don't.  If they keep Fields and still don't a year from now, you might as well burn this whole era to the ground and start over.

You disagree. Cool.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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