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General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: Judge Judy on March 08, 2022, 11:14:26 AM
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All B1G Teams for Illini
Kofi- 1st team
Trent- 2nd team
Plummer- 3rd team
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Johnny Davis gets POTY over Kofi and Murray on both coaches and media.
Don’t agree with it, but he’s deserving. We beat them head to head and split the championship. Kofi’s rebounding should’ve put him ahead, but I don’t have a vote.
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All B1G Teams for Illini
Kofi- 1st team
Trent- 2nd team
Plummer- 3rd team
Congratulations. All deserving.
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Trent on All B1G defensive team.
Didn’t win DPOTY award.
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Trent on All B1G defensive team.
Didn’t win DPOTY award.
Who got it? McConnell?
Guy is a beast.
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Johnny Davis gets POTY over Kofi and Murray on both coaches and media.
Don’t agree with it, but he’s deserving. We beat them head to head and split the championship. Kofi’s rebounding should’ve put him ahead, but I don’t have a vote.
Davis isn’t close to as good as Kofi or Murray. Would be really disappointing if the voters made him POY. Dude shot under 40% in like half of his conference games. He’s a pure volume guy.
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Who got it? McConnell?
Guy is a beast.
Yeah, Caleb McConnell
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Davis isn’t close to as good as Kofi or Murray. Would be really disappointing if the voters made him POY. Dude shot under 40% in like half of his conference games. He’s a pure volume guy.
I agree.
I do think since IL and WI tied for championship, WI got the POTY, so I’m assuming IL and Underwood will get COTY
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Well never mind, Gard just named COTY.
Complete horseshit now that WI swept both POTY and COTY. How does that even happen they get both?! They completely shit the bed.
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Ok, fuck Wisconsin. Complete bullshit and we better use this as motivation for the tourneys! I’ll be interested to hear Underwood and Kofi’s take on this.
We get snubbed and slighted last year and this year. It’s quite unbelievable.
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Gard SHOULD be COY. Davis has no business being the conference POY.
And Kofi got left off at least one media all-conference ballot. Davis Ivey and Murray consensus, Kofi isn’t.
Somehow being preseason POY and playing better than expected was held against him. Will never understand it.
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All B1G Teams for Illini
Kofi- 1st team
Trent- 2nd team
Plummer- 3rd team
well deserved!
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Murray would by my choice. Kofi a close second.
I think the COY choice is OK. Agree, Davis as POY is weak.
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Somehow being preseason POY and playing better than expected was held against him. Will never understand it.
yeah he had a pretty historic year statistically... I don't get it
like who was the last guy to average 21/10 in the big ten for the season? Glen Robinson?
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Murray would by my choice. Kofi a close second.
I think the COY choice is OK. Agree, Davis as POY is weak.
He shot 40% or worse from the floor in almost half his conference games.
This was written in early January when Davis went off for 37 against the team people thought would win the league. At that point even Kofi going off for 37 against the team that actually shared the title with him didn’t move the needle. It’s absolutely absurd.
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yeah he had a pretty historic year statistically... I don't get it
like who was the last guy to average 21/10 in the big ten for the season? Glen Robinson?
Oturu did it. He and Kofi are the only ones since 1992-93. Kofi’s team also won the league, and the media that covered the league gave three guys more votes than him.
Will never ever get it. It’s complete nonsense. Hopefully Kofi is mad about it too and ready to show out.
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Yeah I agree Spark. Gard deserves COTY and Kofi should’ve got POTY. Those two awards definitely should’ve been split in my opinion. I thought they’d do that is why I figured Underwood would get it after they announced Davis as POTY if that’s a little clearer.
Kofi had a historic season and to be disregarded like that is baffling! No other big has done that in over 20 years at least! Totally pissed!
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Ah I forgot about Oturu, yeah I hope this is motivation in March! Not that he's a particularly unmotivated player regardless but yeah what a joke!
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Robinson might've too, actually, his conference-only stats are incomplete on sports-reference. He had 30/11 in all games but I can't find conference-only.
There have been a heck of a lot of really good bigs in this conference over the last few decades that didn't put up 20/10 a night though.
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He shot 40% or worse from the floor in almost half his conference games.
This was written in early January when Davis went off for 37 against the team people thought would win the league. At that point even Kofi going off for 37 against the team that actually shared the title with him didn’t move the needle. It’s absolutely absurd.
Agree.
Murray or Kofi all day along over Davis.
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Agree.
Murray or Kofi all day along over Davis.
And I felt like Murray lost it missing all those free throws down the stretch against IL to lose that game. Just a complete choke job.
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To not have the COTY or POTY when you win the conference is absurd. Total horseshit.
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Kofi is very deserving of POTY, that said, hard to argue Davis and what he did on a team projected 9/10th preseason in the league let alone Top 10 nationally.
Frazier is deserving of his awards/status, actually agree with McConnell.
Coach of the year has to be Gard hands down....and if the same rational is used, then Davis should be POTY. Conference only imo though.
Wisky wins how many without Davis?
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Kofi is very deserving of POTY, that said, hard to argue Davis and what he did on a team projected 9/10th preseason in the league let alone Top 10 nationally.
Frazier is deserving of his awards/status, actually agree with McConnell.
Coach of the year has to be Gard hands down....and if the same rational is used, then Davis should be POTY. Conference only imo though.
Wisky wins how many without Davis?
Who knows?
They'd have lost some games he won them.
They also easily could've beaten Rutgers (11 points for Davis), Illinois (5/19 shooting), Michigan State (8/20 shooting) with a more efficient player getting his minutes.
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https://twitter.com/jgtrends/status/1501262516738875394?s=20&t=g-wUy99GnaO8uO_BraCmDQ
How many games would Illinois have won without Kofi? Pretty much all our players were -'s with him off the court.
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Gard SHOULD be COY. Davis has no business being the conference POY.
And Kofi got left off at least one media all-conference ballot. Davis Ivey and Murray consensus, Kofi isn’t.
Somehow being preseason POY and playing better than expected was held against him. Will never understand it.
Perception made the difference. Most people would probably say Wisconsin overachieved quite a bit, and Illinois under achieved a bit. Kofi also had a couple of duds down the stretch.
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https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/sporting-news-2021-22-college-basketball-all-america-team/rrbzoho3xq9kmg74un7uv03j?fbclid=IwAR2_zDE9I8zxPTZ04ah6xN5oV2RyJy2QY7CMoSOXSCevLkwN47_AXQM2_Cc
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Perception made the difference. Most people would probably say Wisconsin overachieved quite a bit, and Illinois under achieved a bit. Kofi also had a couple of duds down the stretch.
Which duds?
Compare them to the duds Davis had in the league. Davis went three games down the stretch where he shot 35% from the floor. Kofi shot less than 35% from the floor in two total games.
Agree it was 'perception', or narrative, but that's incredibly dumb. And basically the opposite rationale that explained last year's voting.
Johnny Davis had games of 15% shooting (four points!!), 22% shooting, 26% shooting, 31% shooting, 33% shooting, 36% shooting in Big Ten games.
Kofi's five worst Big Ten games were two games shooting 33%, one at 44%, one at 46%, and one at 50%. All in double figures.
And underachieved? We have had among the most injuries of any team nationally and won the league.
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https://twitter.com/jgtrends/status/1501262516738875394?s=20&t=g-wUy99GnaO8uO_BraCmDQ
How many games would Illinois have won without Kofi? Pretty much all our players were -'s with him off the court.
Fair enough, but I think we find a way to win more with our talent without Kofi than Wisky does without Davis...opinions are just that.
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https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/sporting-news-2021-22-college-basketball-all-america-team/rrbzoho3xq9kmg74un7uv03j?fbclid=IwAR2_zDE9I8zxPTZ04ah6xN5oV2RyJy2QY7CMoSOXSCevLkwN47_AXQM2_Cc
!!!!!!
3 big ten players on the first team all American squad
not sure I agree with that but ok
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Which duds?
Compare them to the duds Davis had in the league. Davis went three games down the stretch where he shot 35% from the floor. Kofi shot less than 35% from the floor in two total games.
Agree it was 'perception', or narrative, but that's incredibly dumb. And basically the opposite rationale that explained last year's voting.
Johnny Davis had games of 15% shooting (four points!!), 22% shooting, 26% shooting, 31% shooting, 33% shooting, 36% shooting in Big Ten games.
Kofi's five worst Big Ten games were two games shooting 33%, one at 44%, one at 46%, and one at 50%. All in double figures.
And underachieved? We have had among the most injuries of any team nationally and won the league.
Largely ineffective against Purdue and OSU. Not sure what Davis did or didn’t do the last 10 games off hand. Again, the perception that Wisconsin overachieved greatly helped them in the voting I’m sure. The perception that Illinois slightly underachieved hurt Kofi.
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Largely ineffective against Purdue and OSU. Not sure what Davis did or didn’t do the last 10 games off hand. Again, the perception that Wisconsin overachieved greatly helped them in the voting I’m sure. The perception that Illinois slightly underachieved hurt Kofi.
And that perception is, on its face, absolutely ridiculous. We missed Kofi for two games and Belo for what, 8 or 9? and won the league.
Do you mean the game in Champaign in mid-January against Purdue?
At their place he had 18/7 on 7/12 shooting, that doesn't even make the team photo of Davis' biggest 'duds'. Davis shot better than that percentage four times in conference season, including his 4/4 in the Nebraska game before he got hurt.
Davis' last 10 games he scored 17.4 points (below his season average) on 45.7% shooting and 25% from three. 8.5 rebounds, 1.6 assists to 2.4 turnovers.
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I’m not arguing against you. Just explaining why they did what they did. Feel free to be mad about. Illinois is almost always overlooked. So…
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I’m not arguing against you. Just explaining why they did what they did. Feel free to be mad about. Illinois is almost always overlooked. So…
You're arguing it was the perception, which is right - and I'm pointing out that that doesn't match reality whatsoever. It's absurd. The most undeserved BTPOY I remember.
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Yeah, well perception is what it is. Can’t always explain it easily. Wisconsin unexpectedly sharing the title, Gard being a fairly easy choice for COY probably helped Davis. It is what it is.
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Davis got a little extra gravy on his potatoes due to Wisconsin’s overall success. Kofi basically did what was expected.
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My theory FWIW is that Kofi is penalized for having an extreme physical size and presence. I think there is a little bit of "its not fair-he is too big and strong and anybody like that can go 20/10".
His game is not pretty. It is punishing.
It's bullshit and I will go as far to say there is something unconscious involving race in there somewhere I cannot quite put my finger on.
Who the fuck leaves him off an ALL BT ballot?
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Davis got a little extra gravy on his potatoes due to Wisconsin’s overall success. Kofi basically did what was expected.
Which is the exact reverse of how they gave out POY last year, when Ayo was the surprise candidate and Garza basically did what was expected.
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My theory FWIW is that Kofi is penalized for having an extreme physical size and presence. I think there is a little bit of "its not fair-he is too big and strong and anybody like that can go 20/10".
His game is not pretty. It is punishing.
It's bullshit and I will go as far to say there is something unconscious involving race in there somewhere I cannot quite put my finger on.
Who the fuck leaves him off an ALL BT ballot?
I'd be interested to know who exactly votes for that AP team that didn't have Kofi unanimous.
He was unanimous among both coaches and media in the BT.
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Illinois senior guard Da'Monte Williams was one of six college basketball players named to Seth Davis’ All-Glue team (The Athletic). In its 22nd year, the annual All-Glue team honors “glue guys” who don’t quite earn the press of stars but are key to teams’ success.
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Illinois senior guard Da'Monte Williams was one of six college basketball players named to Seth Davis’ All-Glue team (The Athletic). In its 22nd year, the annual All-Glue team honors “glue guys” who don’t quite earn the press of stars but are key to teams’ success.
It was Damonte's 22nd year too I think.
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It was Damonte's 22nd year too I think.
And only 1 behind Bohannon.
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My theory FWIW is that Kofi is penalized for having an extreme physical size and presence. I think there is a little bit of "its not fair-he is too big and strong and anybody like that can go 20/10".
His game is not pretty. It is punishing.
It's bullshit and I will go as far to say there is something unconscious involving race in there somewhere I cannot quite put my finger on.
Who the fuck leaves him off an ALL BT ballot?
That, too.
None of it is 100% justifiable or defensible. It is 100% “explainable” though.
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Which is the exact reverse of how they gave out POY last year, when Ayo was the surprise candidate and Garza basically did what was expected.
I’m not sure Ayo was a “surprise candidate.”
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Yeah I’m definitely with Spark and Lkdog here on their takes. Complete bullshit and the AP thing is insane and should be investigated honestly. It does have a feel that something isn’t right and is egregious.
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I’m not sure Ayo was a “surprise candidate.”
He was just as good as Garza, but Garza was the preseason pick and didn't do anything to lose it.
This year Davis wasn't as good as the preseason pick, who didn't do anything to lose it, but they gave it to Davis.
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Yeah I’m definitely with Spark and Lkdog here on their takes. Complete bullshit and the AP thing is insane and should be investigated honestly. It does have a feel that something isn’t right and is egregious.
I’d look for it to change as soon as B1G officiating gets fixed.
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I’d look for it to change as soon as B1G officiating gets fixed.
Yeah, end of the day the AP voting doesn't really matter.
The officiating in the Big Ten is brutally bad though, almost every single game.
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I’d look for it to change as soon as B1G officiating gets fixed.
I happen to agree. No accountability. At all.
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It fucks the BT over in the NCAA.
They usually call obvious fouls in the tourney and there subsequently a little is more freedom of movement.
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Yeah I’m really interested to see how Kofi gets reffed in the NCAA tourney this year. The whole B1G actually. From past tourneys, our shitty officiating has really hurt us.
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One would hope a 1st team, 2 time All-American gets fair if not preferential treatment, but one never knows.
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One would hope a 1st team, 2 time All-American gets fair if not preferential treatment, but one never knows.
Definitely hasn’t happened so far this year.
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I don’t think Kofi has been reffed especially poorly. Rarely seems to get into foul trouble for such a big guy. Probably doesn’t get as many calls on the offensive end as he should.
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Can't remember the last dude I saw that got hammered as consistently without fouls called. He's officiated night-and-day differently than say Edey, who is also huge - but is slow and plodding, not nearly as athletic.
I get Kofi's a tough dude to officiate but some of the no-calls are just inexcusable. Underwood said a ref told him they could call a foul on Kofi's man every possession - that's shitty to hear.
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Gard SHOULD be COY. Davis has no business being the conference POY.
And Kofi got left off at least one media all-conference ballot. Davis Ivey and Murray consensus, Kofi isn’t.
Somehow being preseason POY and playing better than expected was held against him. Will never understand it.
Davis and Ivey are lottery pick.
A lotto pick will typically be rated higher than another player not likely to be drafted
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https://twitter.com/jgtrends/status/1501262516738875394?s=20&t=g-wUy99GnaO8uO_BraCmDQ
How many games would Illinois have won without Kofi? Pretty much all our players were -'s with him off the court.
They’d have 20+ losses judging from Underwood’s history without Kofi
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They’d have 20+ losses judging from Underwood’s history without Kofi
So he should be POY then right?
Ignoring your typically simple as fuck "analysis".
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Davis and Ivey are lottery pick.
A lotto pick will typically be rated higher than another player not likely to be drafted
Which is why Franz Wagner won BTPOY last year.
Or, y'know, NBA draft potential could have nothing whatsoever to do with BTPOY voting.
Do a quick run-over.
When was the last time the BTPOY was the highest drafted player from the league?
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So he should be POY then right?
Ignoring your typically simple as fuck "analysis".
No, POY is best player.
MVP is most valuable to one’s own team.
Ivey/Davis are better players than Kofi, therefore they should finish higher in the POY race.
If Big 10 was giving out awards for MVP, then Kofi should win that.
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No, POY is best player.
MVP is most valuable to one’s own team.
Ivey/Davis are better players than Kofi, therefore they should finish higher in the POY race.
If Big 10 was giving out awards for MVP, then Kofi should win that.
By what metric is Davis a better player than Kofi? It ain't production or efficiency.
If it's not an 'MVP' race, Davis shouldn't even be in consideration. He's a pure volume guy.
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Which is why Franz Wagner won BTPOY last year.
Or, y'know, NBA draft potential could have nothing whatsoever to do with BTPOY voting.
Do a quick run-over.
When was the last time the BTPOY was the highest drafted player from the league?
Well, I’d assume the BTPOY has at least been a drafted player in years whete other guys were also in the draft.
Kofi, likely not drafted, would look silly getting POY over Ivey/Davis who are likely top 5 picks. Ivey may go #1
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Well, I’d assume the BTPOY has at least been a drafted player in years whete other guys were also in the draft.
Kofi, likely not drafted, would look silly getting POY over Ivey/Davis who are likely top 5 picks. Ivey may go #1
The NBA draft simply is unrelated to the BTPOY race.
You know that, but your dick gets rock hard like you saw a 13 yea old tennis girl's Twitter when you get to try to rip on Illinois and you're a complete and utter moron 100% of the time.
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By what metric is Davis a better player than Kofi? It ain't production or efficiency.
If it's not an 'MVP' race, Davis shouldn't even be in consideration. He's a pure volume guy.
Davis is better than Kofi because players that can dribble and create are better than post players that can’t.
If Kofi was a 20/10 guy that was an athletic 4 who was shooting 3s…he’s be looked at as better. But pure post players are no longer valued as highly as guys that can dribble
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Davis is better than Kofi because players that can dribble and create are better than post players that can’t.
If Kofi was a 20/10 guy that was an athletic 4 who was shooting 3s…he’s be looked at as better. But pure post players are no longer valued as highly as guys that can dribble
Basically, even though Kofi produced more and more efficiently, you disqualify him because of the position he plays.
Dumb as fuck.
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Davis is better than Kofi because players that can dribble and create are better than post players that can’t.
If Kofi was a 20/10 guy that was an athletic 4 who was shooting 3s…he’s be looked at as better. But pure post players are no longer valued as highly as guys that can dribble
They’d have 20+ losses judging from Underwood’s history without Kofi
so which is it, is he not valuable, or is he valuable? Hard to keep up with your lack of logic here
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so which is it, is he not valuable, or is he valuable? Hard to keep up with your lack of logic here
It’s easy logic if you can understand the difference between most valuable and most outstanding.
Kofi can be most valuable (given his importance to Illinois) while also acknowledging Davis/Ivey are simply better players.
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And only 1 behind Bohannon.
And here I only thought this was Bohannon's 13th season at xxxx, AKA the northwest suburb of Illinois.
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Well, I’d assume the BTPOY has at least been a drafted player in years whete other guys were also in the draft.
Kofi, likely not drafted, would look silly getting POY over Ivey/Davis who are likely top 5 picks. Ivey may go #1
Ivey does not go #1 in any scenario imo. He may get into the Top 5, that is even questionable...Kofi may not go in top 60 as projected by Bleacher Report.
Chance we get him back with some serious NIL $$$
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Gard SHOULD be COY. Davis has no business being the conference POY.
And Kofi got left off at least one media all-conference ballot. Davis Ivey and Murray consensus, Kofi isn’t.
Somehow being preseason POY and playing better than expected was held against him. Will never understand it.
Agreed on all fronts. I don't care how his game projects in the pros, the guy's a more valuable college player.
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Gard for COY.
They couldn't give POY to Murray, tho he probably deserved it more than Davis, because they gave it to Garza the previous 2 years. 1 program just shouldn't get POY 3 years running.
Davis is 4th in scoring and 3rd in rebounding, which is damn good for a guy 6'5".
Davis is a very good player, but Murray put up better numbers offensively.
Kofi is 3rd and 1st with 20+ and 10+.
Give it to the 2 time All American Kofi and few people would be bitching about Wisco NOT getting COY and POY.
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https://twitter.com/IlliniBaby/status/1501592610007363592
The last three Big Ten Coach of the Year winners (Gard and Howard) are a combined 0-9 against Brad Underwood during that span.
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https://twitter.com/IlliniBaby/status/1501592610007363592
Haha wow!
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https://twitter.com/IlliniBaby/status/1501592610007363592
Underwood would probably have had a better record against those two if he hadn't underperformed.
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Underwood would probably have had a better record against those two if he hadn't underperformed.
Too bad he is 0-1 against Porter Moser.
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Too bad he is 0-1 against Porter Moser.
Porter Moser wasn't COY tho.
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Porter Moser wasn't COY tho.
He was in the MVC.
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He was in the MVC.
Not during the Gard, angry dipshit, Gard 3 year time span.
Underwood needs to up his game vs the Marylands, the Rutgers, the Mizzous and the Loyolas.
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Gard for COY.
They couldn't give POY to Murray, tho he probably deserved it more than Davis, because they gave it to Garza the previous 2 years. 1 program just shouldn't get POY 3 years running.
Davis is 4th in scoring and 3rd in rebounding, which is damn good for a guy 6'5".
Davis is a very good player, but Murray put up better numbers offensively.
Kofi is 3rd and 1st with 20+ and 10+.
Give it to the 2 time All American Kofi and few people would be bitching about Wisco NOT getting COY and POY.
Davis as 1st team All American is just plain wrong. Granted, he's the best player on a good team but, Mathurin on AZ is a much better player on a better team. BIG POY was Kofi or Murray. We didn't lose to either.