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Let's talk about something we all can agree on...

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1755 on: May 24, 2024, 11:19:15 PM »
His lawyer finds it difficult to be in two places at one time.

“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1756 on: May 24, 2024, 11:27:35 PM »
Clark had 11 points in their first victory. Looked like she hit two threes late.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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ThePAMan

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1757 on: May 24, 2024, 11:28:07 PM »
His lawyer finds it difficult to be in two places at one time.

Apparently doesn't matter, Nichi!
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

Tempo: "PAMan is a pot stirrer and agent provocateur"

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Reacher

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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1759 on: May 25, 2024, 07:27:01 AM »
His lawyer finds it difficult to be in two places at one time.


Apparently doesn't matter, Nichi!
It's actually quite reasonable and understandable for the judge to address pre-trial motions and move the tax trial date.

And Cannon ought to get moving while Trump can't attend a SCOTUS hearing regarding the case in DC. because he's sitting in  NYC courtroom while his lawyers also are involved in Ga.

Relax.
The administration will get it's pre-election conviction in NYC on an as of yet unnamed crime that will be overturned post-election all while Democrats say that the cases are to keep Trump off the campaign trail.

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1760 on: May 25, 2024, 03:52:35 PM »
SCOTUS acted swiftly on the Colorado insurrection case. For some reason, they are dragging their heals on immunity.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1761 on: May 25, 2024, 04:17:29 PM »
"... Trump not only falsified or caused business records to be entered falsely, ... he did so with the intent to commit or conceal another crime related to violating federal and state election laws."
 
I don't foresee Manhattan or Albany overturning a jury.

I am sure the SCOTUS majority would like to bail out dear leader. However, they have their limits.

“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1762 on: May 25, 2024, 04:48:47 PM »
"... Trump not only falsified or caused business records to be entered falsely, ... he did so with the intent to commit or conceal another crime related to violating federal and state election laws."
 
I don't foresee Manhattan or Albany overturning a jury.

I am sure the SCOTUS majority would like to bail out dear leader. However, they have their limits.


What evidence was presented that Trump falsified or caused business records to be entered falsely ?
What evidence was presented that it was done with intent to commit a state or federal election law violation ?
What is the federal or state election law that was violated ?
What jurisdiction does a Manhattan DA have over Federal election laws ?

There are reasons that the FEC, the SDNY and Bragg himself chose originally not to pursue.

What will prevent any local DA from anywhere in the country from trying to impact every upcoming federal election ?

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1763 on: May 25, 2024, 06:11:21 PM »


What will prevent any local DA from anywhere in the country from trying to impact every upcoming federal election ?

Candidates who obey the law?

“The primary crime that we have alleged is New York state election law section 17-152,” Manhattan Assistant District Attorney Joshua Steinglass told New York Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan during Trump’s trial on April 23. “There is conspiracy language in the statute. The entire case is predicated on the idea that there was a conspiracy to influence the election in 2016.”

"In legal filings last year, Bragg’s team members cited statute 17-152 as one of three possible underlying crimes to help make their case. The others they cited were that Trump sought to skirt New York tax laws and that he violated federal campaign finance regulations.' 

"Bragg’s team does not have to prove Trump violated the statute but merely demonstrate that he was falsifying internal Trump Organization records as part of a broader scheme to improperly influence the 2016 election.''

google it
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1764 on: May 25, 2024, 06:43:44 PM »
There are reasons that the FEC the SDNY and Bragg himself chose originally not to pursue.

FEC: dropped it over objections of Democratic members.

In December 2020, the F.E.C. issued an internal report from its Office of General Counsel on how to proceed in its review. The office said it had found “reason to believe” violations of campaign finance law were made “knowingly and willfully” by the Trump campaign.

But the election commission — split evenly between three Republicans and three Democratic-aligned commissioners — declined to proceed in a closed-door meeting in February. Two Republican commissioners voted to dismiss the case while two Democratic commissioners voted to move forward. There was one absence and one Republican recusal.
 

SDNY: political interference

What they actually found was that Cohen acted at Trump’s direction and to Trump’s benefit. Why didn’t prosecutors pursue the matter further? According to Geoffrey Berman — the Trump-appointed U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, who wrote a book about his experiences — it’s because there was political interference from other Trump appointees who ordered prosecutors to end their investigation.

Bragg: It appears he proceeded with caution. 

For a time, their efforts were haphazard as they examined a wide range of Mr. Trump’s business practices, including whether he had lied about his net worth, which was the focus of the investigation when Mr. Bragg had declined to seek an indictment. But by July, Mr. Bragg had decided to assign several additional prosecutors to pursue one particular strand that struck him as promising: a hush-money payment made on Mr. Trump’s behalf to a porn star during the final days of the 2016 presidential campaign.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1765 on: May 25, 2024, 09:53:48 PM »
Candidates who obey the law?

“The primary crime that we have alleged is New York state election law section 17-152,” Manhattan Assistant District Attorney Joshua Steinglass told New York Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan during Trump’s trial on April 23. “There is conspiracy language in the statute. The entire case is predicated on the idea that there was a conspiracy to influence the election in 2016.”

"In legal filings last year, Bragg’s team members cited statute 17-152 as one of three possible underlying crimes to help make their case. The others they cited were that Trump sought to skirt New York tax laws and that he violated federal campaign finance regulations.' 

"Bragg’s team does not have to prove Trump violated the statute but merely demonstrate that he was falsifying internal Trump Organization records as part of a broader scheme to improperly influence the 2016 election.''

google it
A local DA is injecting his interpretations into federal election law and federal campaign finance law in front of a local judge who will set precedent with respect to federal election and campaign finance law while limiting what a former FEC commissioner may offer in expert testimony with respect to federal campaign law.

If Trump wasn't running for President and the entire scenario played out the same, it would be an NDA with no charges. If he's running for President and bills as a campaign expense, some local DA can charge in front of a local judge saying the expired misdemeanors were part of a conspiracy to violate federal campaign law.

Who's going to be creative and charge Biden with something ?

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illiniray

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1766 on: May 25, 2024, 10:41:51 PM »
New York Penal Law § 175.10: Falsifying business records in the first degree
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof. 

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.


2021 New York Laws
ELN - Election Article 17 - Violations of the Elective Franchise 17-152 - Conspiracy to Promote or Prevent Election.


17-152. Conspiracy to promote or prevent election. Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Trump and his surrogates conspired to keep the public from learning about his misdeeds via "bribes". See 17-152 conspiracy.

Trump concealed the payments by illegally writing them off as legal expenses. see 175.10: Falsifying business records in the first degree. There was an intent to commit another crime and to both aid conceal the commission thereof.
“Taking a trip? Where to?”  -“Wherever I end up, I guess. -“Man, I wish I was you." -Well, hang in there.”

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alum74

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1767 on: May 25, 2024, 11:09:30 PM »

...What will prevent any local DA from anywhere in the country from trying to impact every upcoming federal election ?

Cyber Ninjas bogus audit
Tucker/My Pillow Guy/Rudy false claims
Fox/Dominion $787M settlement
Fake Electors in AZ, MI, GA & WI
"You need to stop counting"
"I just want to find 11,780 votes"
January 6 US Capitol attack

Republicans are so concerned about election integrity.

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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1768 on: May 26, 2024, 06:54:58 AM »
New York Penal Law § 175.10: Falsifying business records in the first degree
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof. 

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.


2021 New York Laws
ELN - Election Article 17 - Violations of the Elective Franchise 17-152 - Conspiracy to Promote or Prevent Election.


17-152. Conspiracy to promote or prevent election. Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Trump and his surrogates conspired to keep the public from learning about his misdeeds via "bribes". See 17-152 conspiracy.

Trump concealed the payments by illegally writing them off as legal expenses. see 175.10: Falsifying business records in the first degree. There was an intent to commit another crime and to both aid conceal the commission thereof.
You keep going back to the allegations.

In any similar situation, how would anyone not running for political office have categorized the expense ?
If Trump had categorized the NDA as a campaign expense would he have violated Federal campaign law ?
If, as alleged, that Bragg had knowledge of the theft of tens of thousands of dollars by the state's star witness from the Trump organization and did not inform the grand jury would that be prejudicial ?

This case is nothing more than a local DA attempting to make good on his campaign promises to go after a former President. Bragg's case is, or should be, more on trial than Trump's categorization of the expense as it not being a campaign expenditure.
"“I’ve never heard of it actually being used, and I’ve practiced election law for 53 years,” Brooklyn attorney and former Democratic NY state Sen. Martin Connor said of section 17-152."
https://electionlawblog.org/?p=142769

Tell us again of your fears that Trump will use retribution if elected while you appear to support Bragg's efforts to fulfill a campaign promise by using state law in a novel way to apply it to federal elections and federal campaign law while Democrats are saying that the case is election interference.

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Reacher

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Re: Let's talk about something we all can agree on...
« Reply #1769 on: May 26, 2024, 11:59:40 AM »
Not even sure what you guys are arguing about, but I’m on the side opposite Mn, because he’s almost always wrong.
"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.