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Underwood

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ThePAMan

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1095 on: April 01, 2022, 10:06:38 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 01, 2022, 08:17:26 AM
(where it matters most)

Watch out, Tempo. Only B1G Regular Season Championships matter around here! ::)
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spark mandrill

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1096 on: April 01, 2022, 02:01:05 PM »
Huh?

Big Ten Championships don't matter at all.  All that matters is the crap-shoot single elimination tournament.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1097 on: April 01, 2022, 02:06:25 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 01, 2022, 08:17:26 AM
It’s not that Underwood didn’t deserve an extension (he’d already gotten one recently). He’s getting a $500k raise and extension when he he’s underachieved two years running (where it matters most), and he’s not likely to jump ship to go anywhere else. And also, according to the report the buyout was increased. And hate to agree with Dominic, but I’d like to see him win without Kofi before giving him extension after extension.

It’s probably fine. Just don’t see the point, other than Guenther Jr finding a way to pay himself on the back. There’s a lot of really attractive coaching candidates out there right now. Don’t want to tie ourselves to a near 60 year old when it’s not really necessary. If things were to go south, I don’t want anyone here a year longer than necessary. We’ve been through this multiple times recently.

I suspect it’s fine. Just irks me to see a guy get an extension two years in a row when the season has ended on sour note in consecutive seasons. If he’d made the Final Four, I would completely get it.


3 consensus All American selections, our first BT regular season title in 17 years (and missed another only by virtue of a weird COVID thing where we finished a half game up of the champion), first BTT title in 16 years and third ever.  We had had basically 3 groups win BTT titles (the 84 team, the Frank/Marcus/Sergio group, and the Dee/Deron/Luther group) since the early 1960s and he won one, finished a game out of one, and somehow managed to not win one despite being half a game up in the standings.  Like he missed two other BT titles by a total of 0.5 games - I doubt that's ever happened before, but I don't know.


If Underwood's underachieved the last few seasons we might as well shut the program down.

Of course I'd like some deeper tournament runs, the way to get those is to keep putting together teams like the last few years and get high seeds, not to risk having your coach poached and starting over every few years because you won't pony up a 14% raise to keep him.  That's the point, to keep the coach that's built a nationally relevant program around instead of watching him go elsewhere and starting over.

Sure wish we'd ponied up for Self after the core he built was upset in the second round.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 02:35:51 PM by spark mandrill »
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Reacher

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1098 on: April 01, 2022, 02:30:47 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 01, 2022, 02:01:05 PM
Huh?

Big Ten Championships don't matter at all.  All that matters is the crap-shoot single elimination tournament.

No, that’s not all that matters. But in consecutive years we’ve laid massive eggs in the tourney. Once when we were basically a co-favorite, and another when we were a popular dark horse title contender.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Custard

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1099 on: April 01, 2022, 02:33:18 PM »
Spark as usual is spot-on. The only two other times we’ve been this consistently good in my lifetime (and I’m getting to be middle aged) got derailed when the coaches who were responsible for the success were either sanctioned or left. Bumping the guy’s pay by .42% of the athletic budget is not the end of the world when he’s brought this much to the program. Even if we do end up firing him for anything other than severe infractions he’d get snatched up immediately and the pay would offset our obligation.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1100 on: April 01, 2022, 02:34:25 PM »
We lost to a 5 seed as a 4 seed this year.  That 5 seed went on to beat the 1 seed people thought was the best team in the country.

This was not some huge upset.

Last year was not good.

It's a tiny sample size, and the tournament is always - always - a crapshoot.  There is a long list of coaches that have had tons of tournament success who at one point were thought of as tournament failures, on bigger sample sizes than we're judging Underwood on.
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Custard

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1101 on: April 01, 2022, 02:35:04 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 01, 2022, 02:30:47 PM
No, that’s not all that matters. But in consecutive years we’ve laid massive eggs in the tourney. Once when we were basically a co-favorite, and another when we were a popular dark horse title contender.

I don’t know how anyone can say we laid an egg this year. We lost to a team that was way better than us in the metrics and way better than us on the floor the last five minutes. Then they dominated #2 overall seed Arizona the next game. No one was talking about Illinois as a title contender after the first week or so of February as we scuffled down the stretch with a whole host of roster issues and inconsistency.
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Reacher

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1102 on: April 01, 2022, 02:36:05 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 01, 2022, 02:34:25 PM
We lost to a 5 seed as a 4 seed this year.  That 5 seed went on to beat the 1 seed people thought was the best team in the country.

This was not some huge upset.

Last year was not good.

It's a tiny sample size, and the tournament is always - always - a crapshoot.  There is a long list of coaches that have had tons of tournament success who at one point were thought of as tournament failures, on bigger sample sizes than we're judging Underwood on.

And we played like utter dog shit. We also played like utter dog shit to a 13 seed that I can’t even remember who they were already.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1103 on: April 01, 2022, 02:36:25 PM »
We should have lost the first game.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1104 on: April 01, 2022, 02:38:42 PM »
So in other words, we’ve played like utter dog shit 3 tourney games in a row. That’s a trend.

I have no problem rewarding Underwood for bringing the program back from the depths, but two extensions in 6 mos, and one after a bed-wetting tournament effort, is so on brand for Illinois.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1105 on: April 01, 2022, 02:40:18 PM »
This isn't remotely an excuse for our performance (especially last year), but I sure do hope next time we play a 5-8 seed we don't get a team that metrics say is a top-10 team.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1106 on: April 01, 2022, 02:40:36 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 01, 2022, 02:36:25 PM
We should have lost the first game.

We didn't.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1107 on: April 01, 2022, 02:41:55 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 01, 2022, 02:36:05 PM
And we played like utter dog shit. We also played like utter dog shit to a 13 seed that I can’t even remember who they were already.

I'd never say it was the best game we played this year, but we were within 5 with 5 minutes left against a really good team.  It wasn't THAT bad.
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Reacher

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1108 on: April 01, 2022, 02:42:35 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 01, 2022, 02:40:18 PM
This isn't remotely an excuse for our performance (especially last year), but I sure do hope next time we play a 5-8 seed we don't get a team that metrics say is a top-10 team.

I mainly just hope we play better (i.e. live up to our billing) and don’t get pantsed.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: Underwood
« Reply #1109 on: April 01, 2022, 02:44:26 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 01, 2022, 02:41:55 PM
I'd never say it was the best game we played this year, but we were within 5 with 5 minutes left against a really good team.  It wasn't THAT bad.

It was pretty bad. Doubt we had a stretch of good basketball more than 3 minutes in that game. It’s a small miracle we were within shouting distance with 6 to go.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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