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wtf is wrong with the right?

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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1590 on: November 23, 2021, 10:34:53 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 23, 2021, 10:15:21 PM
And the video showed what it showed.

Unclear from video if Rosenbaum was trying to take the gun or push it away. The physical evidence (bullet wound and gun shot residue) indicates either possible, latter more likely. Eye witness who works for radical right wing media says former.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1591 on: November 23, 2021, 10:37:42 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on November 23, 2021, 10:34:53 PM
Unclear from video if Rosenbaum was trying to take the gun or push it away. The physical evidence (bullet wound and gun shot residue) indicates either possible, latter more likely. Eye witness who works for radical right wing media says former.

The jury, who studied the video, disagreed.

Why do you hate America, and its laws, but love America hating (but married men loving) Rep. Omar?
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1592 on: November 23, 2021, 10:54:46 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 23, 2021, 10:14:51 PM
Yeah, that is pretty obvious.

You may want to actually read the law you previously posted.

I read it carefully. The correct charge for an adult would have been 2nd degree homicide. The legal issue is proportionality of the response to the threat.

Wisconsin law says, paraphrasing, force can only be used to the extent reasonably necessary to deter an attack. Lethal force can only be used if one is about to die or suffer a devastating injury.

Also:

Mitigating circumstances. The following are affirmative defenses to prosecution under this section which mitigate the offense to 2nd-degree intentional homicide under s. 940.05:

 (b) Unnecessary defensive force. Death was caused because the actor believed he or she or another was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that the force used was necessary to defend the endangered person, if either belief was unreasonable.


If Kyle believed lethal force was neccessary; 1st degree was out. Then the issue becomes whether lethal force was reasonable or not for "a person of ordinary intelligence and prudence in the same situation"
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1593 on: November 23, 2021, 10:59:03 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 23, 2021, 10:37:42 PM
The jury, who studied the video,

The jury ruled based on reasonable doubt in a poorly charged case. Never got to hear who the eye witness works for.
 
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1594 on: November 23, 2021, 10:59:22 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on November 23, 2021, 10:54:46 PM
I read it carefully. The correct charge for an adult would have been 2nd degree homicide. The legal issue is proportionality of the response to the threat.

Wisconsin law says, paraphrasing, force can only be used to the extent reasonably necessary to deter an attack. Lethal force can only be used if one is about to die or suffer a devastating injury.

Also:

Mitigating circumstances. The following are affirmative defenses to prosecution under this section which mitigate the offense to 2nd-degree intentional homicide under s. 940.05:

 (b) Unnecessary defensive force. Death was caused because the actor believed he or she or another was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that the force used was necessary to defend the endangered person, if either belief was unreasonable.


If Kyle believed lethal force was neccessary; 1st degree was out. Then the issue becomes whether lethal force was reasonable or not for "a person of ordinary intelligence and prudence in the same situation"

You have frequently omitted "or suffer a devastating injury" from your analysis. The jury did not.
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ThePAMan

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1595 on: November 23, 2021, 11:00:04 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on November 23, 2021, 10:59:03 PM
The jury ruled based on reasonable doubt in a poorly charged case. Never got to hear who the eye witness works for.

Are you saying he lied?
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1596 on: November 23, 2021, 11:15:49 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on November 23, 2021, 11:00:04 PM
Are you saying he lied?

Eye witness testimony sucks because it is influenced by preconceptions and biases.

Btw, the jury never heard  this:

"A voice that sounds like Rittenhouse says one of the men coming out of the store appears to be armed, the Journal Sentinel reported. Then, he says, “Bro I wish I had my (expletive) AR. l’d start shooting rounds at them.”

https://apnews.com/article/trials-f19acb6b4f1e4128610d2078105db1ce
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Custard

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1597 on: November 23, 2021, 11:26:56 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on November 23, 2021, 11:15:49 PM
Eye witness testimony sucks because it is influenced by preconceptions and biases.

Btw, the jury never heard  this:

"A voice that sounds like Rittenhouse says one of the men coming out of the store appears to be armed, the Journal Sentinel reported. Then, he says, “Bro I wish I had my (expletive) AR. l’d start shooting rounds at them.”

https://apnews.com/article/trials-f19acb6b4f1e4128610d2078105db1ce

Yeah that sounds like concrete evidence. Lock him up!!!
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1598 on: November 23, 2021, 11:28:37 PM »
JFC the “they deserved it because of totally unrelated stuff” argument. Sad and pathetic.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1599 on: November 23, 2021, 11:31:08 PM »
I did not take PAMan for a fascist sympathizer.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1600 on: November 23, 2021, 11:33:34 PM »
Quote from: Custard on November 23, 2021, 11:26:56 PM
Yeah that sounds like concrete evidence. Lock him up!!!

He just fantasizes about shooting people, three weeks before shooting people. But the people he shot were bad guys.
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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1601 on: November 23, 2021, 11:34:58 PM »
Quote from: illiniray on November 23, 2021, 11:33:34 PM
He just fantasizes about shooting people, three weeks before shooting people. But the people he shot were bad guys.

*They deserved it (because of totally unrelated stuff)!*
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1602 on: November 23, 2021, 11:35:48 PM »
Can’t we just agree that some very bad decisions were made on both sides?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 11:37:55 PM by Tempo34 »
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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illiniray

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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1603 on: November 23, 2021, 11:36:02 PM »
Quote from: Chickengeorge on November 23, 2021, 03:30:14 PM
"I was going to put it out"

With his AR-15?
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Re: wtf is wrong with the right?
« Reply #1604 on: November 23, 2021, 11:38:05 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on November 23, 2021, 11:28:37 PM
JFC the “they deserved it because of totally unrelated stuff” argument. Sad and pathetic.

They’d had a lot of bites at the apple but always seemed to come up with the lemon. 
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