IlliniHQ 2
General Category => The Deuce => Topic started by: Murph’s Dog on June 13, 2023, 02:54:56 PM
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Rate yourself!
Also, please put what you voted for in the comments. That would be helpful.
To no one’s surprise I’m a Bernie Sanders Democrat, so just this side of full-blown socialist. Far-left.
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Rate yourself!
Also, please put what you voted for in the comments. That would be helpful.
To no one’s surprise I’m a Bernie Sanders Democrat, so just this side of full-blown socialist. Far-left.
Define each term, please.
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Define each term, please.
Exactly my point from the other day! Just do your “best.”
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Exactly my point from the other day! Just do your “best.”
Define "best." Are we talking "Justin Fields 2022 Bears Best" or "ThePAMan 2023 HQ2 NCAA Tournament Bracket Best"?
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Or don’t participate. Either way.
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Globally I'm pretty firmly center-right.
If you asked an American MAGA type, they'd call me "extreme left".
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Anything not MAGA is extreme left to them.
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Center-right
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Center-right
Spark and you share the same ideology! Who knew?
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Spark and you share the same ideology! Who knew?
He’s WAY above me according to him…
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He’s WAY above me according to him…
He likes to think he is one of the Elites that Trump, et al., like to rail on.
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Very few things make me laugh harder than Trump railing on "elites" from the gold plated toilet in his Manhattan penthouse or the Florida golf course he owns.
The effect he has on American politics sucks ass because I have to take it seriously, but if I didn't I'd be the first one to tell you that Donald Trump is funny as fuck.
Like if I'm holding a Wrestlemania type event and need a host Trump would be my absolute first call.
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Exactly my point from the other day! Just do your “best.”
Where would a "Clinton/Obama Democrat" fall on the compass you provided above?
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Extremely correct
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Globally I'm pretty firmly center-right.
Did not see that coming.
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I voted center-left.
For the most part none of this has any meaning. We can't even define the scale.
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Where would a "Clinton/Obama Democrat" fall on the compass you provided above?
Center-left if in a generous mood. Clinton more Center. As an Obama apologist I’d give you Center-Left. You seem to lean right(ish) culturally.
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I voted center-left.
For the most part none of this has any meaning. We can't even define the scale.
Which was exactly my point the other day regarding the new polling results claiming Americans are skewing more conservative.
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I gave this poll 7 options. I’ll bet that poll offered less
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Center. Go with what is best, issue by issue, without emotional attachment to views. For example, economically, some sectors work better with a free market; others with central planning or a mix. Same with private versus public enterprise.
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Which was exactly my point the other day regarding the new polling results claiming Americans are skewing more conservative.
The poll specifically asked people to self-identify and then compared the results to prior identical polls. The point was that more people were now self-identifying more conservative that previously.
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Center. Go with what is best, issue by issue, without emotional attachment to views. For example, economically, some sectors work better with a free market; others with central planning or a mix. Same with private versus public enterprise.
Pragmatism has been dead here for a long time.
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Center-left if in a generous mood. Clinton more Center. As an Obama apologist I’d give you Center-Left. You seem to lean right(ish) culturally.
Lean right(ish) of whom? Are there Maoist-like Cultural Revolutionaries amongst us?
I agree on the bathroom issues with Spark. I disagree on how to get the JudgeJudys of the world to not be so verbally angry about it.
I believe in "due process" and the possibility of redemption in the court of public opinion. Maybe Nichi would even say those were old school, Capital L, "Liberal" considerations.
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Lean right(ish) of whom? Are there Maoist-like Cultural Revolutionaries amongst us?
I agree on the bathroom issues with Spark. I disagree on how to get the JudgeJudys of the world to not be so verbally angry about it.
I believe in "due process" and the possibility of redemption in the court of public opinion. Maybe Nichi would even say those were old school, Capital L, "Liberal" considerations.
IDK, you seem fairly hostile to trans people to me.
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The poll specifically asked people to self-identify and then compared the results to prior identical polls. The point was that more people were now self-identifying more conservative that previously.
Did the poll the same people as previously? I’m assuming it was your typical 1000 person poll.
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Did the poll the same people as previously? I’m assuming it was your typical 1000 person poll.
This isn't what it means. It's not saying this percentage of the same 1000(0) people identify as more conservative.
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IDK, you seem fairly hostile to trans people to me.
Because I don't thing the guy with the penis should be competing in swim races with biological women? I thought that was your exception....
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This isn't what it means. It's not saying this percentage of the same 1000(0) people identify as more conservative.
I know that.
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Because I don't thing the guy with the penis should be competing in swim races with biological women? I thought that was your exception....
A trans person winning an award meant for women really seemed to get your ire up as well.
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A trans person winning an award meant for women really seemed to get your ire up as well.
True. I didn't think that was fair either.
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Ok, so you’re anti-trans. Unless, you know, it’s on your terms.
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Ok, so you’re anti-trans. Unless, you know, it’s on your terms.
Didn't think it was fair. Why do you believe it was fair?
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Ok, so you’re anti-trans. Unless, you know, it’s on your terms.
Jesus fucking Christ this is next level stupid.
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Jesus fucking Christ this is next level stupid.
It's ok.
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Pragmatism has been dead here for a long time.
As it should be. Fortune does not favor the weak.
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Which was exactly my point the other day regarding the new polling results claiming Americans are skewing more conservative.
Americans as a whole are skewing more "Scared shitless". Except in California.
Newsom had a great interview with Hannity where he just laid down the salt. But the best part is that the only clip FOX news is putting on their stream is where Hannity asks Newsom about Trump's indictment and within 15 seconds has turned it into bashing Newsom for going to the French Laundry. The rest of the interview he was like "Straight Buttigieg" just talking over Hannity and throwing firebombs so fast Hannity couldn't dodge them.
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Didn't think it was fair. Why do you believe it was fair?
Life ain't fair. The whole thing sucks. If you are born with
1) Gender dysphoria
2) Athletic skill and competitive drive
It just might not end up working out. The NCAA and IOC et all are struggling with this, you don't want to take the ability to compete away, you don't want to stack the deck against women after we worked so hard because it used to be if you were born
1) A biological woman with
2) Athletic skill and competitive drive
It just might not end up working out.
Think in the end, trans women are gonna get shut out most likely. From a high level view, it's removing more opportunities than it's giving. Hopefully we can agree that sort of sucks. I mean, that swimmer from Penn still presumably loves swimming, and as a swimmer, I can attest that swimming is pretty fucking boring unless you occasionally get to compete. Even if you run in the Napertucky 5k Turkey Trot you have to enter in an age/sex group with dinky ass prizes, this backlash could put a damper on the joy of sport for sport's sake for a lot of people (albeit fewer than if women's competitions are dominated by trans athletes).
It's NOT that simple - even if the final landscape ends up being the simple one.
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Jesus fucking Christ this is next level stupid.
Lol. Explain how? PAMan is ok with trans people as long as “they know their place.” Tell me how that isn’t discriminatory. I pretty much get it in athletics. But why would he give a shit that they gave a woman’s award to a trans person? They have transitioned to a woman. It’s not an award won in physical competition. You guys should worry less about what’s in someone else’s pants.
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Didn't think it was fair. Why do you believe it was fair?
1) Because it’s not a physical competition.
2) being born with a penis when your brain tells you you should have a vagina probably isn’t fair either.
I get it in sports, but again, you guys should spend less time worrying about what is in other peoples’ pants.
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I wonder who our “extreme-right” voter was. Golf? 97?
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Also wonder who the other “far-left” voter is. Murph?
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https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1668694303168667678/mediaviewer
'In our back yard, with kids present, this was simply unacceptable behavior.'
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https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1668694303168667678/mediaviewer
'In our back yard, with kids present, this was simply unacceptable behavior.'
Screw gun violence, inflation, and healthcare! Let’s focus on the important things like topless TikTok models!
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Who'da thunk Tempo would agree with banning LGBTQ+ people.
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Jesus fucking Christ this is next level stupid.
Noticed PAMan didn’t have any issues with this post
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Lol. Explain how? PAMan is ok with trans people as long as “they know their place.” Tell me how that isn’t discriminatory. I pretty much get it in athletics. But why would he give a shit that they gave a woman’s award to a trans person? They have transitioned to a woman. It’s not an award won in physical competition. You guys should worry less about what’s in someone else’s pants.
Just the typical straw man bullshit and putting words in other peoples’ mouths.
Your universal stance is, “You’re either on my side, or you’re a radical” and there’s no middle ground whatsoever.
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I will say, I sincerely doubt any trans person would read PAMan's posts here and think, "wow, what a great ally." Frankly, the environment among the 'regulars' here is pretty openly hostile to trans people overall.
It's also worth noting that liberals are treated as radicals for simply wanting to leave trans people alone and let them live their lives how they want and I have never seen you object to it in this way, ever.
For a 'both sides suck' guy, you - like PAMan - spend a truly disproportionate amount of time lecturing one side and letting the other say whatever insane shit they want without pushback.
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I will say, I sincerely doubt any trans person would read PAMan's posts here and think, "wow, what a great ally." Frankly, the environment among the 'regulars' here is pretty openly hostile to trans people overall.
It's also worth noting that liberals are treated as radicals for simply wanting to leave trans people alone and let them live their lives how they want and I have never seen you object to it in this way, ever.
For a 'both sides suck' guy, you - like PAMan - spend a truly disproportionate amount of time lecturing one side and letting the other say whatever insane shit they want without pushback.
“Wanting to leave them alone?!” They’re trying to shove it down anybody and everybody’s throat. Gtfooh with that bullshit. Hell they’re even using tax payers’ money through Medicaid to pay for their transitions and shit. I don’t give a fuck what sex you wanna be, but I don’t have to support it with my money. You wanna transition, pay for it like everybody else does that needs medical care. Same for abortions. Don’t like it, fuck off.
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Shoving it down your throat? They're trying to use the fucking bathroom and you're telling them you will assault them if they do. Who's shoving it down who's throat? If it was you and someone told you, "if you enter that restroom I will cut your dick off", would you agree that you were shoving your existence down their throat by minding your business and taking a piss? It's insanity.
You're so terrified of these people that you interpret their literal existence as an affront being shoved down your throat. That is YOUR problem, not the people simply trying to live their lives.
Do you think white heteronormative shit has been "shoved down your throat" your whole life? It's FAR, FAR more pervasive than any trans issue. Far more.
Do you not understand that literally every civil rights fight ever - womens rights, African American rights, gay rights; things we take for granted now - had opponents saying the exact same things you are right now? I'd think that'd make you step back and take a thought about the disdain history is going to have for the folks making the arguments you do, as it has in every other situation where anti-women's rights, anti-black, anti-gay people made the exact same arguments.
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Shoving it down your throat? They're trying to use the fucking bathroom and you're telling them you will assault them if they do. Who's shoving it down who's throat? If it was you and someone told you, "if you enter that restroom I will cut your dick off", would you agree that you were shoving your existence down their throat? It's insanity.
You're so terrified of these people that you interpret their literal existence as an affront being shoved down your throat. That is YOUR problem, not the people simply trying to live their lives.
Do you think white heteronormative shit has been "shoved down your throat" your whole life? It's FAR, FAR more pervasive than any trans issue. Far more.
Do you not understand that literally every civil rights fight ever - womens rights, African American rights, gay rights; things we take for granted now - had opponents saying the exact same things you are right now? I'd think that'd make you step back and take a thought about the disdain history is going to have for the folks making the arguments you do, as it has in every other situation where anti-women's rights, anti-black, anti-gay people made the exact same arguments.
Everything was just fine with them using the bathroom they were using before. Like why is this a fucking issue now all the sudden?! It’s ridiculous and there are much bigger issues than this bullshit. They’re the ones making a big issue about using a fucking restroom. If it doesn’t matter which one they use like you say, then what’s the big deal for them…
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Yes, everything was literally fine with them using the bathroom before. No, they are NOT the people making a big deal out of the restroom. That would be the people making laws literally making it illegal for them to use the restroom they feel comfortable in. If those laws weren't being introduced and passed all over the country by transphobes riled up by bad faith right wing outrage media, this wouldn't even be a discussion at all.
What happened was that conservatives who are transphobic made it a wedge issue and got low-information voters all up in arms about the existence of trans people, which leads to the very historically common "I don't care if trans people exist I just wish they wouldn't do it in front of me" arguments like the one you're making here.
They riled up their base, who they know won't think about this very deeply but instead will simply lash out in the direction they're pointing. That's why this is an issue now.
If they really didn't care about trans people existing, no one would be saying things like "if that trans woman goes to the bathroom with my daughter I will assault her", because reasonable people don't assault others for simply minding their business and using the restroom. However, the right wing outrage machine has successfully scared their base into thinking trans people using the restroom they identify with is being "shoved down their throat". They were just fine using the restroom they felt comfortable in until bigots decided, despite the lack of evidence, that it was dangerous and needed to be illegal.
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Yes, everything was literally fine with them using the bathroom before. No, they are NOT the people making a big deal out of the restroom. That would be the people making laws literally making it illegal for them to use the restroom they feel comfortable in. If those laws weren't being introduced and passed all over the country by transphobes riled up by bad faith right wing outrage media, this wouldn't even be a discussion at all.
What happened was that conservatives who are transphobic made it a wedge issue and got low-information voters all up in arms about the existence of trans people, which leads to the very historically common "I don't care if trans people exist I just wish they wouldn't do it in front of me" arguments like the one you're making here.
They riled up their base, who they know won't think about this very deeply but instead will simply lash out in the direction they're pointing. That's why this is an issue now.
If they really didn't care about trans people existing, no one would be saying things like "if that trans woman goes to the bathroom with my daughter I will assault her", because reasonable people don't assault others for simply minding their business and using the restroom. However, the right wing outrage machine has successfully scared their base into thinking trans people using the restroom they identify with is being "shoved down their throat". They were just fine using the restroom they felt comfortable in until bigots decided, despite the lack of evidence, that it was dangerous and needed to be illegal.
Ok, fair enough.
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"I don't mind black people I just wish they wouldn't shove their civil rights fight down my throat all the time."
"I don't mind women wanting to vote I just wish they'd stop bringing it up all the time."
"I don't mind gay people getting married I just wish they'd shut up and stop arguing about it."
All real arguments that were commonly made. Your argument will look just like these historically.
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“Wanting to leave them alone?!” They’re trying to shove it down anybody and everybody’s throat. Gtfooh with that bullshit. Hell they’re even using tax payers’ money through Medicaid to pay for their transitions and shit. I don’t give a fuck what sex you wanna be, but I don’t have to support it with my money. You wanna transition, pay for it like everybody else does that needs medical care. Same for abortions. Don’t like it, fuck off.
Then get the fuck off my roads. I don't approve of your views, so I don't want you driving on the roads paid for with my tax dollars.
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Few things annoy me more than the "it's taxpayers money" so I get to decide how the money is spent.
Doctors, not right wing congress critters, should make that call.
They should spend time and energy in investigating Medicare and Medicaid fraud instead of making other people's medical decisions.
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Who'da thunk Tempo would agree with banning LGBTQ+ people.
Are you referring to biological men competing against women in sports? Because that’s the only place I’d entertain the idea. But yeah, weird post. Congrats.
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Are you referring to biological men competing against women in sports? Because that’s the only place I’d entertain the idea. But yeah, weird post. Congrats.
I'm referring to the post directly above mine where you commented on focusing on the gay female banning transgenders for their unacceptable behavior at the White House.
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Just the typical straw man bullshit and putting words in other peoples’ mouths.
Your universal stance is, “You’re either on my side, or you’re a radical” and there’s no middle ground whatsoever.
Bigger strawmen are created here every day (and yes, some of them are mine). But he’s basically saying “You can be trans, but I don’t accept you, and don’t recognize you.”
The sports thing, fine. I get it. That puts biological women at a disadvantage. There’s no reason for someone to flip their lid over a trans person receiving a female award if it’s a non-athletic award. Particularly when multiple people are receiving the award. That’s just being anti-trans, no other way to cut it.
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I will say, I sincerely doubt any trans person would read PAMan's posts here and think, "wow, what a great ally." Frankly, the environment among the 'regulars' here is pretty openly hostile to trans people overall.
It's also worth noting that liberals are treated as radicals for simply wanting to leave trans people alone and let them live their lives how they want and I have never seen you object to it in this way, ever.
For a 'both sides suck' guy, you - like PAMan - spend a truly disproportionate amount of time lecturing one side and letting the other say whatever insane shit they want without pushback.
🎯
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Lol. Explain how? PAMan is ok with trans people as long as “they know their place.” Tell me how that isn’t discriminatory. I pretty much get it in athletics. But why would he give a shit that they gave a woman’s award to a trans person? They have transitioned to a woman. It’s not an award won in physical competition. You guys should worry less about what’s in someone else’s pants.
Great use of straw. You are the master.
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Shoving it down your throat? They're trying to use the fucking bathroom and you're telling them you will assault them if they do. Who's shoving it down who's throat? If it was you and someone told you, "if you enter that restroom I will cut your dick off", would you agree that you were shoving your existence down their throat by minding your business and taking a piss? It's insanity.
You're so terrified of these people that you interpret their literal existence as an affront being shoved down your throat. That is YOUR problem, not the people simply trying to live their lives.
Do you think white heteronormative shit has been "shoved down your throat" your whole life? It's FAR, FAR more pervasive than any trans issue. Far more.
Do you not understand that literally every civil rights fight ever - womens rights, African American rights, gay rights; things we take for granted now - had opponents saying the exact same things you are right now? I'd think that'd make you step back and take a thought about the disdain history is going to have for the folks making the arguments you do, as it has in every other situation where anti-women's rights, anti-black, anti-gay people made the exact same arguments.
Spark bringing his A game this morning.
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Ok, fair enough.
Lol
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Who'da thunk Tempo would agree with banning LGBTQ+ people.
He's a great ally! Just ask him!
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Noticed PAMan didn’t have any issues with this post
I didn't think I had to respond to every one of Tempo's moronic strawman posts. Granted, I respond to about 90% of them.
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I will say, I sincerely doubt any trans person would read PAMan's posts here and think, "wow, what a great ally." Frankly, the environment among the 'regulars' here is pretty openly hostile to trans people overall.
It's also worth noting that liberals are treated as radicals for simply wanting to leave trans people alone and let them live their lives how they want and I have never seen you object to it in this way, ever.
For a 'both sides suck' guy, you - like PAMan - spend a truly disproportionate amount of time lecturing one side and letting the other say whatever insane shit they want without pushback.
Sorry, I must have missed how being an "ally" is the equivalent of being a "yes person."
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Just the typical straw man bullshit and putting words in other peoples’ mouths.
Your universal stance is, “You’re either on my side, or you’re a radical” and there’s no middle ground whatsoever.
Good call.
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Great use of straw. You are the master.
Dude, they awarded a trans with an award that multiple women received and you flipped your lid over it. You’re “ok” with people being trans, but you’re also planning on discriminating against them. How is that “straw?” You’re the most Republican Democrat I know.
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Good call.
“You can be trans, but also, expect to be discriminated against.”
That’s essentially your stance.
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Bigger strawmen are created here every day (and yes, some of them are mine). But he’s basically saying “You can be trans, but I don’t accept you, and don’t recognize you.”
The sports thing, fine. I get it. That puts biological women at a disadvantage. There’s no reason for someone to flip their lid over a trans person receiving a female award if it’s a non-athletic award. Particularly when multiple people are receiving the award. That’s just being anti-trans, no other way to cut it.
What are you talking about? You are the biggest constructor of strawmen here. It is not even close. And you create more strawmen in this post.
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Are you referring to biological men competing against women in sports? Because that’s the only place I’d entertain the idea. But yeah, weird post. Congrats.
Some ally! We all knew you were anti-trans.
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“You can be trans, but also, expect to be discriminated against.”
That’s essentially your stance.
No it isn't. Lots straw today. Too bad you cannot monetize it You'd be richer than Bezos.
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Sorry, I must have missed how being an "ally" is the equivalent of being a ”yes persontreating them equally.”
Fixed it for you.
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Spark bringing his A game this morning.
He has done a good job explaining himself. Though you can tell he is teetering on the edge.
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No it isn't. Lots straw today. Too bad you cannot monetize it You'd be richer than Bezos.
PAMan flailing means he knows he lost.
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Fixed it for you.
No, I do not think you did.
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PAMan flailing means he knows he lost.
Hilarious. Strawman34 on a roll today.
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He's a great ally! Just ask him!
“Straw! Flailing!”
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I wonder who the idiot who skewed the poll with mults is.
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I didn't think I had to respond to every one of Tempo's moronic strawman posts. Granted, I respond to about 90% of them.
Someone can call something stupid and you won't say shit if it's said to a liberal.
If a liberal says it to a conservative you will lecture them for multiple days about how they're ruining this country and going to lose the election for "us".
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He has done a good job explaining himself. Though you can tell he is teetering on the edge.
"I can't formulate a counter to his post so instead I'll insinuate something negative to avoid having to try"
I will say, at least you're consistent in your bad faith nonsense.
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Bigger strawmen are created here every day (and yes, some of them are mine). But he’s basically saying “You can be trans, but I don’t accept you, and don’t recognize you.”
The sports thing, fine. I get it. That puts biological women at a disadvantage. There’s no reason for someone to flip their lid over a trans person receiving a female award if it’s a non-athletic award. Particularly when multiple people are receiving the award. That’s just being anti-trans, no other way to cut it.
How do you know that biological women were not at a similar "disadvantage" when it came to that award? Why is the disadvantage only limited to athletics? I know nuance is hard for you.
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Some ally! We all knew you were anti-trans.
The way you accuse others of doing what you are doing yourself is enough to make Donald Trump jealous. Truly Trumpian.
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"I can't formulate a counter to his post so instead I'll insinuate something negative to avoid having to try"
I will say, at least you're consistent in your bad faith nonsense.
You can tell you are getting angry. JudgeJudy appeared to give in, so there was no reason to bash him.
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How do you know that biological women were not at a similar "disadvantage" when it came to that award? Why is the disadvantage only limited to athletics? I know nuance is hard for you.
Lol gold
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The way you accuse others of doing what you are doing yourself is enough to make Donald Trump jealous. Truly Trumpian.
Well, you have admitted you are not a true "ally." In essence.
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Lol gold
Laydown accepted.
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Someone can call something stupid and you won't say shit if it's said to a liberal.
If a liberal says it to a conservative you will lecture them for multiple days about how they're ruining this country and going to lose the election for "us".
Did 97 agree he was trolling you? Yeah, he did. Just like I told you he was.
You are a smart guy. But you are not as smart as you think you are.
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You can tell you are getting angry. JudgeJudy appeared to give in, so there was no reason to bash him.
Here you are, lecturing the people arguing for decency again. Sure he made a good point, but I can just TELL he's getting angry arguing for basic human decency.
It's almost like this is just who you are, despite the protests to the contrary.
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“There’s no way a trans person could be awarded for “COURAGE.” Could never happen. I call foul.”
-ThePAMan
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Everything was just fine with them using the bathroom they were using before. Like why is this a fucking issue now all the sudden?! It’s ridiculous and there are much bigger issues than this bullshit. They’re the ones making a big issue about using a fucking restroom. If it doesn’t matter which one they use like you say, then what’s the big deal for them…
C'mon JudgeJudy, this is simply not true.
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Well, you have admitted you are not a true "ally." In essence.
Trumpian.
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“There’s no way a trans person could be awarded for “COURAGE.” Could never happen. I call foul.”
-ThePAMan
What are you talking about?
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Trumpian.
No it isn't. It is a fact.
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Did 97 agree he was trolling you? Yeah, he did. Just like I told you he was.
You are a smart guy. But you are not as smart as you think you are.
Where we differ is in thinking " when i publicly say openly racist shit im just trolling libz lol snowflake!" is a reasonable excuse to handwave away saying openly racist and bigoted shit.
You're welcome to defend that behavior, and if you want that behavior to be acceptable defending it makes sense. If you don't, then obviously it makes no sense whatsoever.
Have you ever considered that simply saying that shit in public and this board not pushing back on it is a negative even if that person later comes out and says "lol i was trolling u!"?
You've had a few chances this morning to practice what you preach and defend decency with the same vigor you defend bigotry. You declined. It's just who you are.
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Here you are, lecturing the people arguing for decency again. Sure he made a good point, but I can just TELL he's getting angry arguing for basic human decency.
It's almost like this is just who you are, despite the protests to the contrary.
I could just tell you were getting angry as you kept typing. Even after Judge Judy said you made fair points.
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Where we differ is in thinking "im just trolling libz lol snowflake!" is a reasonable excuse to handwave away saying openly racist and bigoted shit.
You're welcome to defend that behavior, and if you want that behavior to be acceptable defending it makes sense. If you don't, then obviously it makes no sense whatsoever.
Have you ever considered that simply saying that shit in public and this board not pushing back on it is a negative even if that person later comes out and says "lol i was trolling u!"?
You've had a few chances this morning to practice what you preach and defend decency with the same vigor you defend bigotry. You declined. It's just who you are.
You can lecture all you want, but I didn't think he meant it, so I was not going to engage. Sorry I was right.
I just got here. Figured I dispense with Strawman34's daily stupidity first. Thought Ray chimed in nicely to JudgeJudy though.
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What are you talking about?
Take a couple hours off, troll.
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I could just tell you were getting angry as you kept typing. Even after Judge Judy said you made fair points.
I can see the lickspittle flying off while you type this. Calm down dude.
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"I can't formulate a counter to his post so instead I'll insinuate something negative to avoid having to try"
I will say, at least you're consistent in your bad faith nonsense.
Boy (no pun intended!), is he ever…
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Someone can call something stupid and you won't say shit if it's said to a liberal.
If a liberal says it to a conservative you will lecture them for multiple days about how they're ruining this country and going to lose the election for "us".
Well, you did lose one election and appear to want to lose another.
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I can see the lickspittle flying off while you type this. Calm down dude.
That is funny, at least.
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You can lecture all you want, but I didn't think he meant it, so I was not going to engage. Sorry I was right.
I just got here. Figured I dispense with Strawman34's daily stupidity first. Thought Ray chimed in nicely to JudgeJudy though.
It does not matter if he meant it. He said some openly racist shit, and your lecturing was exclusively pointed at the people who called it racist. As I've said multiple times, that's an AMAZING strategy if the goal is to make it more acceptable to say openly racist shit. If that's your goal, you're doing great. You claim your goal is the opposite of that though.
Saying racist shit and then saying "IM JOKING" afterwards is not a good joke, and we shouldn't pretend it is.
Look, you called Tempo stupid. Fuckin' hypocrites man.
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Take a couple hours off, troll.
Strawman34 must construct more strawman to destroy to show HQ2 posters how strong he is.
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Well, you did lose one election and appear to want to lose another.
Are you actually incapable of good faith discussion, or do you refuse out of some "nothing is serious lol" principle?
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Where we differ is in thinking " when i publicly say openly racist shit im just trolling libz lol snowflake!" is a reasonable excuse to handwave away saying openly racist and bigoted shit.
You're welcome to defend that behavior, and if you want that behavior to be acceptable defending it makes sense. If you don't, then obviously it makes no sense whatsoever.
Have you ever considered that simply saying that shit in public and this board not pushing back on it is a negative even if that person later comes out and says "lol i was trolling u!"?
You've had a few chances this morning to practice what you preach and defend decency with the same vigor you defend bigotry. You declined. It's just who you are.
I can see the red mark on PAMan’s ass from here.
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It does not matter if he meant it. He said some openly racist shit, and your lecturing was exclusively pointed at the people who called it racist. As I've said multiple times, that's an AMAZING strategy if the goal is to make it more acceptable to say openly racist shit. If that's your goal, you're doing great. You claim your goal is the opposite of that though.
Saying racist shit and then saying "IM JOKING" afterwards is not a good joke, and we shouldn't pretend it is.
Look, you called Tempo stupid. Fuckin' hypocrites man.
Yes, it does matter. He was trying to, and succeeded, in getting a rise out of you. I was not going to give him the satisfaction. Ignore him and he won't do it.
Tempo does act stupid around here quite a bit.
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I can see the red mark on PAMan’s ass from here.
LOL.
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Well, you did lose one election and appear to want to lose another.
“No strawmen allowed!”
-ThePAMan
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Yes, it does matter. He was trying to, and succeeded, in getting a rise out of you. I was not going to give him the satisfaction. Ignore him and he won't do it.
Tempo does act stupid around here quite a bit.
Fucking hypocrite. Not gonna win hearts and minds that way!
And no, it does not matter. In case you've missed it, the Republican party has made LOTS of in roads using this exact <say some heinous racist shit and then attack the people who point that out for taking you seriously> strategy. We are headed down that path, and will continue down that path as long as "lol i was just trolling you when i said the openly racist shit!" is acceptable, defensible behavior.
Like, imagine being a descendant of a person who was owned as property, seeing someone say "you owe white people money because your ancestors were enslaved", and then having 100% of the outrage about that statement dedicated to the people who said "yo that's racist and fucked up". Are you capable of that sort of empathy? At some point "I'm joking snowflake" is not a good defense for saying openly racist shit.
If that's what you want, well, great work I guess. I'm more interested in a society where saying openly racist shit isn't okay even if later you say "lol i was trolling u!"
Would you really change your views if I'd simply said "lol ur so easy to troll" after you started lecturing me about calling someone who says openly bigoted stuff a bigot? Ignoring that, again, this is equating being a bigot with calling out bigotry as wrong.
As for 'getting a rise out of me', literally my only reaction was "that was a very stupid post". You've said the same thing about Tempo multiple times today. Custard said the same thing about Tempo and you didn't say shit to him. It's pretty clear in interacting with you that you prefer a place where open bigotry is fine as long as later you say "lol im trolling". I do not prefer a place like that.
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Fucking hypocrite. Not gonna win hearts and minds that way!
And no, it does not matter. In case you've missed it, the Republican party has made LOTS of in roads using this exact <say some heinous racist shit and then attack the people who point that out> strategy. We are headed down that path, and will continue down that path as long as "lol i was just trolling you when i said the openly racist shit!" is acceptable, defensible behavior.
Like, imagine being a descendant of a person who was owned as property, seeing someone say "you owe white people money because your ancestors were enslaved", and then having 100% of the outrage about that statement dedicated to the people who said "yo that's racist and fucked up". Are you capable of that sort of empathy? At some point "I'm joking snowflake" is not a good defense for saying openly racist shit.
If that's what you want, well, great work I guess. I'm more interested in a society where saying openly racist shit isn't okay even if later you say "lol i was trolling u!"
I have given up on Tempo stopping with the strawman arguments. It is who he is and who has has been for decades. That is part of the reason he has been mocked for years on other boards. Meanwhile, for example, JudgeJudy and bathrooms is a far more serious issue. I may be wrong, but I think it is worth trying to change his mind. It seems like a lot of time here is spent arguing against strawmen arguments (including yours lately).
Actually, I want to know who the racists are, because they are never going away, so I do believe in the First Amendment and "free speech" even where the First Amendment does not apply. It is truly one of the more redeeming qualities of this Cesspool. While I know 97 has some "dark" views, I did not believe that post was in earnest.
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You do the stupid strawman thing at least as often as Tempo. And 95+% of your posts these days are just troll nonsense. Can't remember the last time you really substantively discussed an issue beyond lecturing a liberal for pointing out bigotry.
It's funny you mention 'free speech' - I've never said that the post should be deleted, the poster should be banned, etc. I spoke out against it as racist and/or bigoted. You, despite being such a clear supporter of free speech on this board, have taken great issue with me calling those things out 3 times this week. If ILLove wants to be a bigot and then do the "lol i was trolling!" thing like a middle schooler, that's fine. The people who believe open racism is wrong will speak out against it, and the people who don't will defend it.
Free speech, as long as you don't point out when someone says something abhorrent.
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Are you referring to biological men competing against women in sports? Because that’s the only place I’d entertain the idea. But yeah, weird post. Congrats.
So only on YOUR terms… got it!
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You do the stupid strawman thing at least as often as Tempo.
It's funny you mention 'free speech' - I've never said that the post should be deleted, the poster should be banned, etc. I spoke out against it as racist and/or bigoted. You, despite being such a clear supporter of free speech on this board, have taken great issue with me calling those things out 3 times this week. If ILLove wants to be a bigot and then do the "lol i was trolling!" thing like a middle schooler, that's fine. The people who believe open racism is wrong will speak out against it, and the people who don't will defend it.
Free speech, as long as you don't point out when someone says something abhorrent.
Did say you wanted Dom banned?
Again, my point to you was not to "point[] out when someone says something abhorrent" but questioning "how" you point it out.
I still want to know who the idiot racists are, personally. I do not want them to hidden behind "polite society." I know that this view is not en vogue at this point.
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So only on YOUR terms… got it!
Yep.
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Did say you wanted Dom banned?
Again, my point to you was not to "point[] out when someone says something abhorrent" but questioning "how" you point it out.
I still want to know who the idiot racists are, personally. I do not want them to hidden behind "polite society." I know that this view is not en vogue at this point.
Only because he lost the bet and has a long history of welching on the consequences. I certainly never wanted him banned for something he said here. I even offered him two separate chances out of the bet when it was pretty damn clear he'd lost.
Want to know a secret about 'knowing who the idiot racists are'? If one of those shows their ass and you spend 100% of the time after lecturing the people who pointed it out instead of the person being an idiot racist, people will assume you are one too - and they won't be totally crazy to assume that.
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Only because he lost the bet and has a long history of welching on the consequences. I certainly never wanted him banned for something he said here. I even offered him two separate chances out of the bet when it was pretty damn clear he'd lost.
Want to know a secret about 'knowing who the idiot racists are'? If one of those shows their ass and you spend 100% of the time after lecturing the people who pointed it out instead of the person being an idiot racist, people will assume you are one too - and they won't be totally crazy to assume that.
Oh brother. It is good to see you have stopped calling people "stupid" at least. But now you just call everyone a racist. Congrats on your moral superiority over everyone here that does not join you in responding to 97's trolling.
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Oh brother. It is good to see you have stopped calling people "stupid" at least. But now you just call everyone a racist. Congrats on your moral superiority over everyone here that does not join you in responding to 97's trolling.
I've never called someone who didn't say or defend openly racist shit a racist ever in my life. Something to consider.
Tempo's right, it's very Trumpian. The real racists are the people who call the folks saying racist shit 'racist'. Don't listen to the words he says, just take the 'meaning' of the word and assume he doesn't actually mean the stuff he says all the time. Both strategies employed often by Trumpists.
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I've never called someone who didn't say or defend openly racist shit a racist ever in my life. Something to consider.
Considering how sheltered you appear to be, that does not say much. But I applaud your artistry. You are diligent in your craft. It is underappreciated by the 10 people here.
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Hahaha, yeah, really sheltered. Really top notch stuff.
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Hahaha, yeah, really sheltered. Really top notch stuff.
You cannot say that you are not. I dread opening up this can of worms, but your comments about/reaction to Jobu's fake death. C'mon, dude. Just own it.
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“There’s no way a trans person could be awarded for “COURAGE.” Could never happen. I call foul.”
-ThePAMan
This puts bio females at a disadvantage since bio males are naturally braver
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This puts bio females at a disadvantage since bio males are naturally braver
I cannot believe you said that Nichi. You are smarter than this. You know better. Take it back.
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Tempo does act stupid around here quite a bit.
This one is gold. Especially considering the poster.
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You keep trying to troll me and instead prove how it's just not in your nature to call out bigotry, but instead to call out the people calling out the bigotry. It's hilarious. Like I couldn't have written better posts exemplifying the things I've been saying if I tried.
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Fucking hypocrite. Not gonna win hearts and minds that way!
Like, imagine being a descendant of a person who was owned as property, seeing someone say "you owe white people money because your ancestors were enslaved", and then having 100% of the outrage about that statement dedicated to the people who said "yo that's racist and fucked up". Are you capable of that sort of empathy?
I have serious doubts about this. I don’t think empathy is an emotion that PAMan delves too deeply in.
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I cannot believe you said that Nichi. You are smarter than this. You know better. Take it back.
Where is your facetiousness detector?
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So only on YOUR terms… got it!
Simpleton making a simpleton argument. It’s physical competition. Should we let NFL players play high school football? I’m trying to be reasonable, here. Unlike you and ThePAMan.
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I still want to know who the idiot racists are, personally. I do not want them to hidden behind "polite society."
Yet you want to coddle people with racist views so as not to upset them.
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Where is your facetiousness detector?
Don't worry, it was just an attempt at trolling me that backfired.
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Yep.
You are so fucking disingenuous, it’s literally quite shocking.
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Oh brother. It is good to see you have stopped calling people "stupid" at least. But now you just call everyone a racist. Congrats on your moral superiority over everyone here that does not join you in responding to 97's trolling.
You of all people should not lecture anyone on posting etiquette. What a joke.
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You cannot say that you are not. I dread opening up this can of worms, but your comments about/reaction to Jobu's fake death. C'mon, dude. Just own it.
I’d be willing to bet about 1/10,000 people would even ENTERTAIN the idea of literally faking their death on a message board, let alone do it. And then your response is to mock the person who expressed empathy over what he could only logically assume was a real life situation, and then be angered by the fact he was duped with a neurotic hoax. This seems to fit your profile. LackofEmpathyMan
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This puts bio females at a disadvantage since bio males are naturally braver
Lol
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You literally can’t even be reasonable with PAMan (conceding biological men competing athletically with biological females seems to be unfair) without being mocked.
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I cannot believe you said that Nichi. You are smarter than this. You know better. Take it back.
His post was brilliant. POTW candidate.
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You keep trying to troll me and instead prove how it's just not in your nature to call out bigotry, but instead to call out the people calling out the bigotry. It's hilarious. Like I couldn't have written better posts exemplifying the things I've been saying if I tried.
He does this regularly. It’s why I created the mults to mock his opinions. RandomLogicMan, Score Listener, et al.
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Where is your facetiousness detector?
How dare you! Spark said I had to turn it off since I was right about 97.
Being right is not as superior as his performative art here.
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I’m trying to be reasonable, here.
LOL
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I’d be willing to bet about 1/10,000 people would even ENTERTAIN the idea of literally faking their death on a message board, let alone do it. And then your response is to mock the person who expressed empathy over what he could only logically assume was a real life situation, and then be angered by the fact he was duped with a neurotic hoax. This seems to fit your profile. LackofEmpathyMan
I thought Jobu's Fake Death would never be topped as a bit here. Starting to wonder.
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Tempo, remember how Sidra carried around that little stuffed monkey and called it "Kendall" after Kendall Gill? I admit to being taken aback and uncomfortable by that as I found it disturbing.
I think she also mentioned calling the stuffed monkey Kendall at the old HQ.
What was your view, if any, on that?
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Yeah, I'll never live down ... *checks notes* ... giving a shit about a person I thought was my friend literally dying.
What a moron I am.
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Yeah, I'll never live down ... *checks notes* ... giving a shit about a person I thought was my friend literally dying.
What a moron I am.
You won't if 97 has his way.
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LOL
You make me laugh like a clown.
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Tempo, remember how Sidra carried around that little stuffed monkey and called it "Kendall" after Kendall Gill? I admit to being taken aback and uncomfortable by that as I found it disturbing.
I think she also mentioned calling the stuffed monkey Kendall at the old HQ.
What was your view, if any, on that?
Never really thought about it. I’m assuming she loves Kendall so I doubt it was anything racist.
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I thought Jobu's Fake Death would never be topped as a bit here. Starting to wonder.
It makes sense though, since clearly, trolling trumps all else with you. Be as horrible or as racist as you want, as long as the troll is a good one!
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Never really thought about it. I’m assuming she loves Kendall so I doubt it was anything racist.
Telling.
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It makes sense though, since clearly, trolling trumps all else with you. Be as horrible or as racist as you want, as long as the troll is a good one!
Jobu's Death, Tempo's Shooting Bigoted Voters, and 97's Reverse Reparations are not all on the same trolling quality level.
Jobu's Death is far more epic for the continued reaction. I think that my JudgeJudy Daughter Bit may be second behind it. I do not think your Shooting Bigoted Voters or 97's Reverse Reparations will be as memorable. Sorry.
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Telling.
You misspelled “Trolling.”
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You misspelled “Trolling.”
I find it telling that you saw nothing amiss with it.
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I find it telling that you saw nothing amiss with it.
Did you call her out on it?
GFY troll
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Did you call her out on it?
GFY troll
I did not. I had just met her. I just thought it was weird and felt uncomfortable. You didn't. Interesting. Telling.
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I did not. I had just met her. I just thought it was weird and felt uncomfortable. You didn't. Interesting. Telling.
🧌
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🧌
You do not think it is odd for a white person to walk around with a stuffed monkey named after an African-American basketball player. Alrighty then....
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I find stuffed animals for adults odd in general. She’s a huge Illini fan, and I’m sure she loves Kendall. I’ll let her know you think she’s racist, though.
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I find stuffed animals for adults odd in general. She’s a huge Illini fan, and I’m sure she loves Kendall. I’ll let her know you think she’s racist, though.
I did not say she was that. Seemed odd to me and made me wonder. I was uncomfortable with it though.
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Yes, "JudgeJudy molests his daughter" is an elite, hilarious bit.
GTFOH with that, Jesus. It's disgusting and surely not at all true.
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Yes, "JudgeJudy molests his daughter" is an elite, hilarious bit.
GTFOH with that, Jesus. It's disgusting and surely not at all true.
Wow, defending Judge Judy is new. "surely"? I mean, you believed Jobu died. Oy vey.
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Defending JudgeJudy from "jokes" about a really, really disgusting and serious thing without evidence?
Yes, of course man.
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I’ve pretty much been told that I’m racist because I live in Washington, IL so there’s that.
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I’ve pretty much been told that I’m racist because I live in Washington, IL so there’s that.
By Tempo. Maybe you should walk around with a stuffed gorilla named Kofi and you’d be in the clear…
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Defending JudgeJudy from "jokes" about a really, really disgusting and serious thing without evidence?
Yes, of course man.
Well I appreciate it. He did go WAY too far in that shit. Totally uncalled for.
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Yes, "JudgeJudy molests his daughter" is an elite, hilarious bit.
GTFOH with that, Jesus. It's disgusting and surely not at all true.
Agreed.
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I’ve pretty much been told that I’m racist because I live in Washington, IL so there’s that.
Lol
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It’s kinda funny how Tempo constantly says this place is full of right wingers, yet his own poll says exactly the opposite. I’ve always felt the deuce was dominated by left leaning conversations.
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It’s kinda funny how Tempo constantly says this place is full of right wingers, yet his own poll says exactly the opposite. I’ve always felt the deuce was dominated by left leaning conversations.
LMMFAO
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It’s kinda funny how Tempo constantly says this place is full of right wingers, yet his own poll says exactly the opposite. I’ve always felt the deuce was dominated by left leaning conversations.
Which option did you pick? I don’t think I’ve seen a single right-winger post their pick. Hell, even Spark who said he considers himself center-right said he voted center-left. All of the extreme left votes are obviously fake votes.
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All of the extreme left votes are obviously fake votes.
Why do you say that? People are self-identifying since you did not provide any definitions. Maybe they do think of themselves as "extreme left"?
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I'm not buying it either. I voted Center Left.
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Why do you say that? People are self-identifying since you did not provide any definitions. Maybe they do think of themselves as "extreme left"?
Lol
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Lol
You could have avoided this by providing definitions or examples.
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You could have avoided this by providing definitions or examples.
Anyone with half a brain should be able to find one that works “well enough.” You are 1,000% making my case as to why that poll everyone was giddy about is ignorant. I have people 7 options. Certainly everyone can find 1-2 that work.
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If you follow politics and don’t have an idea of what Center-right or center-left more or less look like, you’re an idiot of the highest order.
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Anyone with half a brain should be able to find one that works “well enough.” You are 1,000% making my case as to why that poll everyone was giddy about is ignorant. I have people 7 options. Certainly everyone can find 1-2 that work.
It appears you missed the point of the poll.
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Is it okay to think classic satirical TV shows like Fawlty Towers and All in the Family are funny?
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What about Blazing Saddles?
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What about Blazing Saddles?
Movies like that are still funny, but would seem out of place today.
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Wonder where Trump would put himself in this poll...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/16/politics/trump-transgender-women-pageants-kfile/index.html
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Wonder where Trump would put himself in this poll...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/16/politics/trump-transgender-women-pageants-kfile/index.html
Lol CNN
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Lol CNN
Why is CNN (especially) funny?
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Why is CNN (especially) funny?
You really don’t know?!😳 I actually believe you though, Bernie…
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Why is CNN (especially) funny?
People who trust right wing news sources think CNN is too biased.
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Lol CNN
Which part do you think is inaccurate?
Trump flipped flopped on a lot of issues. No surprise that in 2012 he supported trans rights. He used to support national health insurance too.
At some point he figured out his market was angry blue collar conservatives.
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Which part do you think is inaccurate?
Trump flipped flopped on a lot of issues. No surprise that in 2012 he supported trans rights. He used to support national health insurance too.
At some point he figured out his market was angry blue collar conservatives.
If you want to accept this as a flip flop because CNN says so, go ahead.
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If you want to accept this as a flip flop because CNN says so, go ahead.
You don't think changing his positions on trans rights and health care were flip flops? Or you don't think he changed his positions?
I followed Trump at the time and considered those flip flops. He had no real views except self promotion. He floated ideas to see how they were received. Supporting trans rights and national health care did not resonate with his new found base. So he waffled. I don't need CNN to tell me that. I am not the one who bases the veracity of news solely on the source.
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People who trust right wing news sources think CNN is too biased.
I get that. His comment just seems oddly placed to me.
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If you want to accept this as a flip flop because CNN says so, go ahead.
Maybe you could provide us with the NewsMax perspective.
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He had no real views except self promotion.
This is the correct answer when discussing Donald Trump. It’s always the correct answer.
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And conservatives are biased. Lol.
Transgender rights doesn't have to be an either/or situation.
What do you tell the woman who, in her last NCAA race, misses obtaining All-American status because Lia Thomas had a better time ?
What do you tell the high school girl who's still suffering a year later from injuries from getting hit in the head with a spiked volleyball ?
Tough shit, get over it ?
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And conservatives are biased. Lol.
Transgender rights doesn't have to be an either/or situation.
What do you tell the woman who, in her last NCAA race, misses obtaining All-American status because Lia Thomas had a better time ?
What do you tell the high school girl who's still suffering a year later from injuries from getting hit in the head with a spiked volleyball ?
Tough shit, get over it ?
We weren't discussing transgender rights. We were discussing how Trump's positions changed. Trans rights is just one example.
Yes, conservatives and liberals have biased perspectives by definition.
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We weren't discussing transgender rights. We were discussing how Trump's positions changed. Trans rights is just one example.
Yes, conservatives and liberals have biased perspectives by definition.
Transgenders in competitive sports wasn't an issue when Trump made his comments about the pageants.
And not expressing an opinion on sports when he made the comments on pageants is not a flip flop.
Being ok with pageants but not competitive sports isn't that dissimilar from the women who support transgender rights but have an objection to competing against them.
Transgender rights don't have to be all inclusive by decree.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/americans-oppose-inclusion-trans-athletes-sports-poll-finds-rcna88940
"The survey — conducted from May 1 to May 24 via telephone interviews with roughly 1,000 adults living in the U.S. — found that 69% of people say that transgender athletes should only be allowed to compete on sports teams that correspond with the sex they were assigned at birth, compared with 62% in 2021."
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In 2012, Trump agreed with the Olympic policy. He cited it as a rationale to admit trans to the pageant.
Are you saying CNN made that up? That Trump didn't appear to conveniently change his position on that?
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Which part do you think is inaccurate?
Trump flipped flopped on a lot of issues. No surprise that in 2012 he supported trans rights. He used to support national health insurance too.
At some point he figured out his market was angry blue collar conservatives.
Donald Trump's past statements about LGBT rights
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-past-statements-lgbt-rights/story?id=48858527
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https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-pride-merchandise-target-bud-light-backlash-1803353
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In 2012, Trump agreed with the Olympic policy. He cited it as a rationale to admit trans to the pageant.
Are you saying CNN made that up? That Trump didn't appear to conveniently change his position on that?
He said the Olympic policy supports the decision he made about a beauty pageant. And a campaign speech about kids and 14 year old girls competing against transgenders are entirely different issues from a beauty pageant policy decision and Caitlyn Jenner's preferred bathroom.
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He said the Olympic policy supports the decision he made about a beauty pageant. And a campaign speech about kids and 14 year old girls competing against transgenders are entirely different issues from a beauty pageant policy decision and Caitlyn Jenner's preferred bathroom.
Trump has no principles other than his own advancement. We all know that.
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Trump has no principles other than his own advancement. We all know that.
That’s every single politician.
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And conservatives are biased. Lol.
Transgender rights doesn't have to be an either/or situation.
What do you tell the woman who, in her last NCAA race, misses obtaining All-American status because Lia Thomas had a better time ?
What do you tell the high school girl who's still suffering a year later from injuries from getting hit in the head with a spiked volleyball ?
Tough shit, get over it ?
I think even the lefties among us here at HQ have conceded that it’s unfair for women to compete athletically with biological men. So it doesn’t seem like you’re arguing with us.
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That’s every single politician.
Lol perfect Trumper response
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Lol perfect Trumper response
I see why PMan is wondering what the poll means. I said I’m center-right, so no wonder why it’s skewed. You think I’m a Trumper at center-right. Awful judgmental aren’t you. You’re the problem thinking the way you do.
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I see why PMan is wondering what the poll means. I said I’m center-right, so no wonder why it’s skewed. You think I’m a Trumper at center-right. Awful judgmental aren’t you. You’re the problem thinking the way you do.
TBH I don’t recall what your level of Trump support is/was, but I’m guessing you’d take him over pretty much any Democrat. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I laugh because you think any level of corruption is equal to complete corruption. See: LIV/PGA debate for a prime example that’s really not even political. I’m not sure you’re a die hard Trumper, but you exhibit many of their traits. Trump tells them the entire system is corrupt, which is largely true. But they overlook the part where he’s the most corrupt of all.