IlliniHQ 2
General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: frankiew on April 21, 2023, 10:42:24 AM
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I feel like they always hint at stuff but never in a way people could call them out if they are wrong
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I feel like they always hint at stuff but never in a way people could call them out if they are wrong
Yes, definitely. You should post there.
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Yes, definitely. You should post there.
why?
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Seems like a good spot for you.
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Jasn88Cub, don't listen to Spark. Your gaseous self is more welcomed here than would be over there.
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You should have made it a poll. and then gotten 8 consecutive votes out of nowhere.
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How about answering the question
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How about answering the question
I’m not the person to answer that question. No idea.
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I haven’t talked to anyone I’d consider an insider in 10 years.
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Dom is the only insider. Duh.
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I haven’t talked to anyone I’d consider an insider in 10 years.
Truth is pissed you just dissed him.
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I meant DM wise or verbally. But Dom is probably as much of an insider as the next person claiming to be an insider. I don’t think we have one here for sure. We have people who get nuggets I would suppose. But those nuggets are sometimes chicken as opposed to gold.
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I think they probably have some contacts that likely have some pieces of info as situations play out.
I doubt they have any definitive information or insight earlier than anyone else, but they seem to at least know what rocks we are turning over and sniffing around on.
The way they are worshiped on Loyalty is pretty sad, but the general knowledge level about college basketball after you sort through all the naivete, nuthugging and stupid gifs is not bad.
You are just are not allowed to ever question the insiders, or staff, or players. It's a homer site.
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I think they probably have some contacts that likely have some pieces of info as situations play out.
I doubt they have any definitive information or insight earlier than anyone else, but they seem to at least know what rocks we are turning over and sniffing around on.
The way they are worshiped on Loyalty is pretty sad, but the general knowledge level about college basketball after you sort through all the naivete, nuthugging and stupid gifs is not bad.
You are just are not allowed to ever question the insiders, or staff, or players. It's a homer site.
So in other words. Lots of chicken (imitation chicken filler likely), much less gold.
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So in other words. Lots of chicken (imitation chicken filler likely), much less gold.
Probably true.
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Dom is the only insider. Duh.
Correct.
Nobody on Loyalty knows anything. It’s always one of 2 things:
#1. I’ll steal premium info about guys visiting
OR
#2. I’ll suggest Illinois is getting the best available player, and push that until player commits elsewhere and then I’ll move on to the next guy.
Nobody on that site knows anything. If they did, you’d think they’d have broken the Moretti or Perrin commitments. Nothing was said about either of those guys before they committed.
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I meant DM wise or verbally. But Dom is probably as much of an insider as the next person claiming to be an insider. I don’t think we have one here for sure. We have people who get nuggets I would suppose. But those nuggets are sometimes chicken as opposed to gold.
Nah, some of the people who claim to be insiders are really hearing stuff from inside the program - but the people in the program know that stuff will get out, too.
Dominic literally knows nothing.
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They basically just know people who know people. As Sturdy says, recruiting is fluid, so they aren't always right.
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Nah, some of the people who claim to be insiders are really hearing stuff from inside the program - but the people in the program know that stuff will get out, too.
Dominic literally knows nothing.
I wasn’t making the case Dom was an insider. I’m making the case that we don’t really have one. So he may as well lay stake to that claim.
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Nah, some of the people who claim to be insiders are really hearing stuff from inside the program - but the people in the program know that stuff will get out, too.
Dominic literally knows nothing.
No they aren’t
Then why am I always right?
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They basically just know people who know people. As Sturdy says, recruiting is fluid, so they aren't always right.
Lol no. They don’t know anything.
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Then why am I always right?
The bigger question is who is more in denial? Tempo or Dom?
Well, maybe the bigger question is whose W-L record at guard is better, Revie Sorey or Cody Whitehair?
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Lol no. They don’t know anything.
Says the homeless pedophile idiot who guaranteed we would be in the NIT.
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Says the homeless pedophile idiot who guaranteed we would be in the NIT.
If I was on the selection committee I certainly would not have picked Illinois.
Trash team.
2-12 vs Quad 1
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No they aren’t
Then why am I always right?
Just pretend with me and I’m always right!
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Just pretend with me and I’m always right!
Let’s again review:
Loyalty says Kofi is coming back.
Loyalty says TSJ is coming back.
Loyalty says RayJ or Tyger is coming.
None of those things are correct. I will be proven right as I always am. And the grift that the “Loyalty” insiders know anything will be further exposed.
I
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The bigger question is who is more in denial? Tempo or Dom?
Well, maybe the bigger question is whose W-L record at guard is better, Revie Sorey or Cody Whitehair?
Ankle-biting PAMan is my least favorite PAMan.
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No they aren’t
Then why am I always right?
Always?
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If I was on the selection committee I certainly would not have picked Illinois.
Trash team.
2-12 vs Quad 1
What a truly sad and delusional response. Is this flop house you live in for the chronically mentally ill?
The absolute worst blowhard insider on Loyalty is more informative than you.
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Well, maybe the bigger question is whose W-L record at guard is better, Revie Sorey or Cody Whitehair?
Yep! If only the best player on the field for the Bears had played better, the Bears would have won! Why did the best player on the field let them down like that?
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Ankle-biting PAMan is my least favorite PAMan.
You don't get a Revie Sorey reference every day, Tempo. I know you just want to argue, but c'mon, you need to rethink your QB W-L percentage argument.
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Yep! If only the best player on the field for the Bears had played better, the Bears would have won! Why did the best player on the field let them down like that?
Many asked the same question last year on The Mastodon. You on there?
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You don't get a Revie Sorey reference every day, Tempo. I know you just want to argue, but c'mon, you need to rethink your QB W-L percentage argument.
Why did Dan Marino always allow his defense to give up 38 points a game? Just imagine how good Marino would have been if he’d been better at defense.
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Why did Dan Marino always allow his defense to give up 38 points a game? Just imagine how good Marino would have been if he’d been better at defense.
He had some good and some bad games in the playdowns. Not as dynamic when he could not puff up his numbers against garbage Ds I guess....
1999: Lost to JAX 62-7 - 11/25 95 yards 1TD/2INT
1998: Lost to Den 38-3 - 26/37 243 0TD/2INT
1997: Lost to NE 17-3 - 17/43 141 0/2
1996: n/a
1995: Lost to Buf 37-27 - 33/64 422 2/3
1994: Lost to SD 22-21 - 24/38 262 3/0
1993: n/a
1992 Lost to Buf 29-10 - 22/45 268 1/2
1991 n/a
1990: Lost to Buf 44-34 - 23/49 323 3/2
1986-1989: n/a
1985: Lost to NE 31-14 - 20/48 248 2/2
1984 Lost to SF 38-16 - 29/50 318 1/2
1983: Lost to Sea 27-20 - 15/25 193 2/2
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Dan Marino was 8-10 in the playoffs and never won a SB. Mediocre QB.
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Dan Marino was 8-10 in the playoffs and never won a SB. Mediocre QB.
Straw! Just not as prolific in the playoffs. Like Dan Fouts.
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Let’s again review:
Loyalty says Kofi is coming back.
Loyalty says TSJ is coming back.
Loyalty says RayJ or Tyger is coming.
None of those things are correct. I will be proven right as I always am. And the grift that the “Loyalty” insiders know anything will be further exposed.
I
Did anyone at Loyalty or anywhere have Illinois in NIT? Nope just the Homeless NIT Pedophile.
Just STFU you fucking idiot. The more you post the more pathetic you look.
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Many asked the same question last year on The Mastodon. You on there?
The Mastodon?
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Dom predicted Kofi would either turn pro or transfer to UK in 2001/2002. The loyalty insiders hinted it was likely he would return to Illinois.
They never predicted he would stay for 2022/23. They said there was a good chance because he stood to earn a large amount of NIL money. In the end, his family wanted an unrealistic sum that could not be projected.
Indy Illini Fan, Lville, 0440, and DB do not actually make predictions. They are not psychics. They drop hints about what is trending right now; which is subject to change.
For example, Shannon and Hawkins are undecided. Nobody is saying they have decided to stay. They are more likely to stay if Underwood brings in a solid, veteran point guard.
Most years, Underwood and staff have offered everyone and their brother. Dom could predict they were not coming to Illinois and be right most of the time, because we didn't have 100 roundball scholarships.
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They never predicted he would stay for 2022/23. They said there was a good chance because he stood to earn a large amount of NIL money.
Yes they did.
They were wrong. Period.
Stop listening to these idiots. I’m right.
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Stop listening to these idiots. I’m right.
Did anyone at Loyalty or anywhere have Illinois in NIT? Nope just the Homeless NIT Pedophile.
Just STFU you fucking idiot.
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Dom really reticent to acknowledge that the first time he claimed it was 100% sure Kofi wasn’t coming back.. well..
It’s the same strategy he always uses. Just pretend with me.
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Dom really reticent to acknowledge that the first time he claimed it was 100% sure Kofi wasn’t coming back.. well..
It’s the same strategy he always uses. Just pretend with me.
I never made any predictions the first time. He clearly wanted to leave the first time bc he sold his stuff on the internet.
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I never made any predictions the first time. He clearly wanted to leave the first time bc he sold his stuff on the internet.
There are plenty of college basketball players who want to leave early and play in the NBA. Wanting to and having a realistic chance are two different things.
From I can gather, Kofi's family had unrealistic expectations. I don't think they envisioned playing in Japan for less than his projected NIL value.
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Sorry I posted about Illinois basketball in a Bears' thread.
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People on Loyalty having a complete meltdown because some people are talking about good eating places in Illinois instead of recruiting news in the thread 😂
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These days the Denzel Washington boom gif has replaced the chief symbol when there's a commitment on the horizon.
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People on Loyalty having a complete meltdown because some people are talking about good eating places in Illinois instead of recruiting news in the thread 😂
Is tempo there now?
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illini0440
illini0440
Brad was very happy on a phone call earlier
Today 🤷🏻♂️
LvilleILL
LvilleILL
ILL
:)
AMAZING INSIDE INFO
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I never made any predictions the first time. He clearly wanted to leave the first time bc he sold his stuff on the internet.
You definitely told me no way was Kofi coming back and anyone who thought he was was an idiot.
Same thing you said about him last year, and about Shannon this year.
In all three situations, you were talking completely out your ass because you don't know a fuckin' thing.
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illini0440
illini0440
Brad was very happy on a phone call earlier
Today 🤷🏻♂️
LvilleILL
LvilleILL
ILL
:)
AMAZING INSIDE INFO
LOL how people can even take that clown seriously
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You definitely told me no way was Kofi coming back
Go find the posts then. Should be easy right? Just go in my history and find all my posts.
I literally made a post the exact week that Kofi announced he was leaving, and it came true that week.
I made a similar post about Shannon. Again within days he announced he was leaving..
I’m always right. You got 22 days left here. Then you can stay on the scout board with the rest of the Loren Tate demographic
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illini0440
illini0440
Brad was very happy on a phone call earlier
Today 🤷🏻♂️
LvilleILL
LvilleILL
ILL
:)
AMAZING INSIDE INFO
Was he on one of those "chat with a sexy lady" phone numbers? Do they even still have those?
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LOL how people can even take that clown seriously
That’s BrooksTaylorFan. He makes Reese Woodcock look intelligent.
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Go find the posts then. Should be easy right? Just go in my history and find all my posts.
I literally made a post the exact week that Kofi announced he was leaving, and it came true that week.
I made a similar post about Shannon. Again within days he announced he was leaving..
I’m always right. You got 22 days left here. Then you can stay on the scout board with the rest of the Loren Tate demographic
I would, but you were banned from the board you posted it on - like every other board other than this one - again.
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That’s BrooksTaylorFan. He makes Reese Woodcock look intelligent.
Sure he's way, way smarter than you but I bet Rees Woodcock doesn't have jokes like this.
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It's called a hint. Code for good news is coming.
Those guys consistently know shit before it becomes public. Unlike our resident self appointed insider, they are right most of the time. Nobody here knows what their sources are.
Lville was hinting about RayJ in March.
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Shannon entered the draft April 12, but left open the option to return.
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It's called a hint. Code for good news is coming.
Those guys consistently know shit before it becomes public. Unlike our resident self appointed insider, they are right most of the time. Nobody here knows what their sources are.
Lville was hinting about RayJ in March.
yea a hint so when nothing happens they can say "plans change" or when ANYTHING happens they can say "I called that"
kinda like when someone asked about staff changes and one of them said Brad and OA still talk and when someone asked if it could result in OA coming back they said something along the lines of"They still talk and Calipari took Chin on a trip he usually takes OA"
ok and that tells us what?
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yea a hint so when nothing happens they can say "plans change" or when ANYTHING happens they can say "I called that"
kinda like when someone asked about staff changes and one of them said Brad and OA still talk and when someone asked if it could result in OA coming back they said something along the lines of"They still talk and Calipari took Chin on a trip he usually takes OA"
ok and that tells us what?
That there might be mutual interest there and things might not be all.thst rosey at UK.
There might be a change in NCAA rules regarding assistants -- new positions created.
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I subscribed to Sturdy back in the day. He was wrong most of the time -- recruiting if fluid. His player evals were worse, they were atrocious. I gather Price was his main source.
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It's called a hint. Code for good news is coming.
Those guys consistently know shit before it becomes public. Unlike our resident self appointed insider, they are right most of the time. Nobody here knows what their sources are.
Lville was hinting about RayJ in March.
RayJ has barely been a secret for a long while now.
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That there might be mutual interest there and things might not be all.thst rosey at UK.
There might be a change in NCAA rules regarding assistants -- new positions created.
Surely you understand how hinting but not saying "there might be mutual interest there" puts you in a position where you can claim to have been right, but no one can claim that you were wrong?
It's their entire strategy. Seems like it works on you.
Half the Loyalty guys just post or hint at pay info from other sites.
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Surely you understand how hinting but not saying "there might be mutual interest there" puts you in a position where you can claim to have been right, but no one can claim that you were wrong?
It's their entire strategy. Seems like it works on you.
Half the Loyalty guys just post or hint at pay info from other sites.
Nobody knows where they get information. Maybe they get it from the same sources as Sturdy et al?
Where do pay sites get info?
The concept of premium information is bullshit. It's no different than info published in a print newspaper or magazine. Putting it behind an Internet pay wall doesn't make it more privileged.
Even journalists of all stripes use weasel words. It appears, it seems, there might be, reportedly, sources say ...
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I would, but you were banned from the board you posted it on - like every other board other than this one - again.
I haven’t posted on any boards except Ish Lite Reborn (where I correctly predicted Bret Bielema was the answer to Illinois football before he was even hired) and this board.
And you can see I’m right. Go thru my post history.
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It's called a hint. Code for good news is coming.
Those guys consistently know shit before it becomes public.
No, they don’t.
Go look up LVille’s post. Dude said RJ Melendez was coming back. That was flat out wrong.
Dude thought Tyger Campbell was coming. Nope
Dude last year claimed Kofi was coming back. Nope.
All these guys do is cling on to the best thing possible for illinois, then when it doesn’t happen, claim “recruiting is fluid”.
Go back and see if EVEN ONE POSTER, mentioned anything about Zack Perrin. Not one mention.
What “insider” can claim they know what’s going on when they can’t even mention a guy that does commit?
Track their losses. These dudes know Jack shit
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RayJ has barely been a secret for a long while now.
And who gives a shit?
A mid-major 5th year grad transfer, who is from Illinois, would consider transferring to Illinois? An IL team that currently has Scencire Harris and Justin Harmon as the starting backcourt. Wow how shocking!
What a SCOOP!
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I have said this before. About 20 years ago, I stumbled upon the Scout IB. Back then, I still multiple contacts in my circles that were close to the programs. One person had a contact in RG's office.
I posted something at the Scout freeboard that I'd heard from my sources, and was promptly censored for sharing premium information. I have never had a scout premium account. At the time, I had no idea what premium information even meant. I'm still not sure.
I pay for the digital versions of WaPo and the failing NYT. Is what I read there premium information?
How about the print versions?
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I come here for the insider information on dumpster diving, Uber driving, and human behavior. The dumpster diving info has been a bit light since Robb left. Been a bit too heavy on the human behavior though.
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Again Nichi.
If people on Loyalty know insider recruiting info, why did nobody even mention Zach Perrin even being recruited????
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RayJ has barely been a secret for a long while now.
Nobody had even heard of him in March. At the time, I googled him. He had entered the NBA draft. He said if he pulled out, he would return to Toledo.
Then Indy? dropped hints about Tyger and there wasn't that much RayJ talk.
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Again Nichi.
If people on Loyalty know insider recruiting info, why did nobody even mention Zach Perrin even being recruited????
I recall discussions about a French big.
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Underwood’s recruited 19 freshmen players. Know how many of his own commits graduated? 2 This stat alone should get him fired: 2/19.
FR Recruits:
Mark Smith
Trent Frazier-
Damonte Williams
Greg Eboigbodin
Matic Vesel
Ayo Donsunmu
Tevian Jones
Allen Griffin
Samba Kane
Giorgi B
Anthony Higgs
Kofi Cockburn
Benjamin Verdonk
Jermaine Hamlin
Adam Miller
Andre Curbelo
Coleman Hawkins
Brandon Lieb
RJ Melendez
Luke Goode
Brandin Podzemski
21 Freshman Recruits altogether.
4 left Illinois with degrees (Williams, Frazier, Lieb, assume Goode)
4/21 😂. I’m sure parents like this stat
4/21
Fire this guy.
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Nobody had even heard of him in March. At the time, I googled him. He had entered the NBA draft. He said if he pulled out, he would return to Toledo.
Then Indy? dropped hints about Tyger and there wasn't that much RayJ talk.
That’s because you are illiterate. RayJ Dennis played at Boise State. Then he went to Toledo. He’s from Oswego. He’s nothing special which is why you hadn’t heard of him.
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No, they don’t.
Go look up LVille’s post. Dude said RJ Melendez was coming back. That was flat out wrong.
Who is illiterate? He had RJ trending to returning, then undecided.
LvilleILL
"Not sure anyone knows what RJ is going to do including RJ. So no he's not staying nor is he gone yet. Time will tell"
Post in thread 'Illini Basketball' https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/illini-basketball.31034/post-1890400
Dain, Ty, Goode, and RJ all trending towards coming back.
Post in thread 'Illini Basketball' https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/illini-basketball.30954/post-1886482
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Nobody knows where they get information. Maybe they get it from the same sources as Sturdy et al?
Where do pay sites get info?
The concept of premium information is bullshit. It's no different than info published in a print newspaper or magazine. Putting it behind an Internet pay wall doesn't make it more privileged.
Even journalists of all stripes use weasel words. It appears, it seems, there might be, reportedly, sources say ...
I mean hey man, if you want to pretend with the loyalty 'insiders' have at it. I'm just saying they don't know anything you couldn't know for $6 a month or whatever. They get a LOT of people fawning over them for it, it's pathetic.
That BReal is still doing his fake insider thing is absolutely hysterical to me.
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Nobody had even heard of him in March. At the time, I googled him. He had entered the NBA draft. He said if he pulled out, he would return to Toledo.
Then Indy? dropped hints about Tyger and there wasn't that much RayJ talk.
I suppose it depends on how close you pay attention, and which pay sites you subscribe to.
RayJ was not a surprise.
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That’s because you are illiterate. RayJ Dennis played at Boise State. Then he went to Toledo. He’s from Oswego. He’s nothing special which is why you hadn’t heard of him.
I found out all that googling, just like you did. Or maybe you use DuckDuckGo?
Prior to that, I do not recall hearing the name. There was no buzz about RayJ Dennis and Illinois in March.
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And who gives a shit?
A mid-major 5th year grad transfer, who is from Illinois, would consider transferring to Illinois? An IL team that currently has Scencire Harris and Justin Harmon as the starting backcourt. Wow how shocking!
What a SCOOP!
Hey NIT Fcktard Pedophile.
STFU.
About time to go to work. We would like to know something, however. How many guys have taken a shit in your Ubermobile?
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I suppose it depends on how close you pay attention, and which pay sites you subscribe to.
RayJ was not a surprise.
I paid O & B for a few years. It was like 99 dollars for an annual. I got bad recruiting information and worse prospect evals.
I used to get vastly superior recruiting info and better prospect data from Tatelines.
Other than that, it was entertaining. I left when Doug took over.
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I mean hey man, if you want to pretend with the loyalty 'insiders' have at it.
I am saying I have no way of knowing where they get their information.
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I come here for the insider information on dumpster diving, Uber driving, and human behavior. The dumpster diving info has been a bit light since Robb left. Been a bit too heavy on the human behavior though.
Fair. But I’d also include the football analysis. Men only, of course.
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Who is illiterate? He had RJ trending to returning, then undecided.
LvilleILL
"Not sure anyone knows what RJ is going to do including RJ. So no he's not staying nor is he gone yet. Time will tell"
Post in thread 'Illini Basketball' https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/illini-basketball.31034/post-1890400
Dain, Ty, Goode, and RJ all trending towards coming back.
Post in thread 'Illini Basketball' https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/illini-basketball.30954/post-1886482
“Trending”…wtf does that even mean?
When I make predictions, I don’t use that weak language.
Terence Shannon is gone. There’s no trending. He’s gone. And so is sparky.
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I found out all that googling, just like you did. Or maybe you use DuckDuckGo?
Prior to that, I do not recall hearing the name. There was no buzz about RayJ Dennis and Illinois in March.
Again, I suppose that depends on how closely you follow these things and how.
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“Trending”…wtf does that even mean?
When I make predictions, I don’t use that weak language.
Terence Shannon is gone. There’s no trending. He’s gone. And so is sparky.
And if he's not gone, I'll just pretend he is.
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I am saying I have no way of knowing where they get their information.
That it's so consistently the same information recently sent out via one or more of the premium sites is probably just a coincidence.
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“Trending”…wtf does that even mean?
When I make predictions, I don’t use that weak language.
Terence Shannon is gone. There’s no trending. He’s gone. And so is sparky.
What makes you so sure he’s gone?
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“Trending”…wtf does that even mean?
When I make predictions, I don’t use that weak language.
Terence Shannon is gone. There’s no trending. He’s gone. And so is sparky.
Seriously. How many guys have taken a shit in your Ubermobile?
And tonight try not think about guys like this.
https://www.wpxi.com/video/dash-cam-footage-shows-murdered-uber-drivers-last-moments/22cfd0c5-a677-486d-b824-652b531d1f77/ (https://www.wpxi.com/video/dash-cam-footage-shows-murdered-uber-drivers-last-moments/22cfd0c5-a677-486d-b824-652b531d1f77/)
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Im beginning to think LKDog doesn’t like Dom.
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That it's so consistently the same information recently sent out via one or more of the premium sites is probably just a coincidence.
Every single channel reports the same scores for the same games. They all report the same weather forecast. Coincidence?
The news is what it is. Some pursue it as a job and charge for their take on it. If they start to claim exclusive ownership over the raw news, that is a bit twisted.
My experience with premium sites soured me on them. They wanted to charge me for recruiting information I already knew; then tell me I had to keep it secret. Or charge me for "fluid" information and bad prospect evals.
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“Trending”…wtf does that even mean?
In this case, it clearly means undecided but leaning one way or another. At that point, RJ was leaning toward staying. Later on, he was
50:50.
Dainja moved the other direction. He had been leaning toward leaving, but decided to stay.
Your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired.
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i should create a post and pretend im a insider and see if it fools em
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i should create a post and pretend im a insider and see if it fools em
I’d recommend the usernames Deepthroat or TheInsider.
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i should create a post and pretend im a insider and see if it fools em
Tell them you are close personal friends with Paint, recently had lunch with Mick Cronin, and just got off the phone with Bill Self.
Make sure you use the correct nicknames. Don't call Chester Chet.
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Really hoping Shannon returns so we can watch Squeaky weasel out of another bet.
Fortunately he can't weasel out of bad bets in the real life.
God bless the stock market for breaking Squeaky.
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Really hoping Shannon returns so we can watch Squeaky weasel out of another bet.
Fortunately he can't weasel out of bad bets in the real life.
God bless the stock market for breaking Squeaky.
What a total fucking loser.
"Yeah, I was a big trader making a fortune in the Chinese Stock Market, but got bored so taking a break right now to drive Uber in my Squeakymobile".
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y33eO6SjvTM/maxresdefault.jpg)
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What makes you so sure he’s gone?
Bc guys don’t come back for 5th years, on bad teams, when they have no ability to improve their draft stock.
The propaganda put forth by the Illini Guardians is bullshit. They aren’t paying anyone more than a pro NBA deal is worth
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I’d recommend the usernames Deepthroat or TheInsider.
DeepThroat and The Insidher would be the same person though??? :o
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Bc guys don’t come back for 5th years, on bad teams, when they have no ability to improve their draft stock.
The propaganda put forth by the Illini Guardians is bullshit. They aren’t paying anyone more than a pro NBA deal is worth
Ok, so you don’t have “information.” I don’t have a problem with your conclusion, I just don’t know why you’d need to go all in on it.
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Ok, so you don’t have “information.” I don’t have a problem with your conclusion, I just don’t know why you’d need to go all in on it.
I go all in on common sense plays
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Ok, so you don’t have “information.” I don’t have a problem with your conclusion, I just don’t know why you’d need to go all in on it.
It's Truth. He's the biggest moron you've ever met, guaranteed.
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I go all in on common sense plays
That is why you are broke and homeless and driving a fucking Squeakymobile at age 50.
All of those common sense plays in your life.
Did you bet on Illinois in their NIT game?
How much money did you make?
We want to know.
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I go all in on common sense plays
Is that why you’re broke?!
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I have no clue how ON3 adduces NIL value, but they have Shannon at 1/4 million. Then there is the value of his basketball scholarship, roughly $30,000. Plus any degrees he earns will benefit him long after he is done playing ball.
I don't believe any of the draft projections. He needs to go through the process and get feedback.
He might get drafted in the 2nd round, but he is unlikely to get a guaranteed contract. A two way is possible and he should go for that. If it looks like Europe or g league, he should probably stay in school.
Of course, none of us know his personal goals or the actual NIL amount.
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They use a formula based on how many followers you have on social media, what level of school you play at, etc.
Most 2nd round picks get guaranteed deals these days. A two-way basically means playing in the G-League.
I'm curious whether you actually believe that a basketball scholarship's true value is $30,000 a year.
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They use a formula based on how many followers you have on social media, what level of school you play at, etc.
Most 2nd round picks get guaranteed deals these days. A two-way basically means playing in the G-League.
I'm curious whether you actually believe that a basketball scholarship's true value is $30,000 a year.
A two way is a pretty good deal. $500K plus. Each team gets to keep two guys on a two way beyond the 15 man roster and nobody else can poach them IIRC.
A typical G League salary is $40K for guys not on any kind of guaranteed contract. Better off in Europe or taking NIL.
I would think Illinois could match $500k for TSJ or Hawkins if they really wanted if they were unsure if they were going to get one of the two way deals.
Both are borderline to get a two way or roster spot IMO unless they really impress in workouts.
Of course a guaranteed rookie minimum roster spot for a second rounder is the ideal.
A reach for either of them, but who knows.
FWIW the rumor on Hunter Dickinson was several million in NIL.
Smart move as I think he is not a long term NBA roster guy in this lifetime.
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They use a formula based on how many followers you have on social media, what level of school you play at, etc.
Most 2nd round picks get guaranteed deals these days. A two-way basically means playing in the G-League.
I'm curious whether you actually believe that a basketball scholarship's true value is $30,000 a year.
I read somewhere that about 70% of 2nd round picks get at least one year guaranteed..
A two way deal is going to be worth more than just a g league contract. Period.
In 2014, Indiana quantified the value:
"For an out of state student-athlete, the four year total value of a full athletics scholarship is estimated to be $240,274. For an in-state student-athlete, that estimate is $135,766."
It would vary by institution.
The average for all sports is 18,000 per year. 30,000 is a low estimate for UI in state.
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Is that why you’re broke?!
I’m not. I have 80,000 and no debt. I could literally do nothing for 6 years if I wanted too
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I’m not. I have 80,000 and no debt. I could literally do nothing for 6 years if I wanted too
80,000 Yuan is what? $12,000?
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I’m not. I have 80,000 and no debt. I could literally do nothing for 6 years if I wanted too
What a total fucking idiot. "I could literally do nothing for 6 years if I wanted too".
Cannot spell either.
Let's break that down. The Pedophole Retard claims he can live in his Squeakymobile for 6 years without working on $15,000 a year.
Good luck with that loser.
That will not even cover the candy you hand out on the playground.
(https://www.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/videos/9391112/thumb/5.jpg?ip=x480)
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80,000/6 is more like 13,000 and some change.
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I’m not. I have 80,000 and no debt. I could literally do nothing for 6 years if I wanted too
Moving in with mom and dad?
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I’m not. I have 80,000 and no debt. I could literally do nothing for 6 years if I wanted too
So $80k on fetanyl.
$0 on food & shelter, etc.
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80,000/6 is more like 13,000 and some change.
Even a moron like him can get 5% a year on CDs unless he puts it under the bed at the flop house.
He is a fucking idiot.
No health care.
Living in a crack house.
Eating at homeless meal sites and dumpsters.
I bet he is pulling his own teeth out about now.
Driving the Squeakymobile trying to get 11 year olds to go for a ride.
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how the fuck you live on 13k a year lol I spend about that in a month
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how the fuck you live on 13k a year lol I spend about that in a month
He is living on SSI disability and in a homeless shelter.
Chronic mental health diagnosis and unable to really work except for his Squeakymobile gig.
If he wasn't such an asshole we would have empathy for his situation.
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He is living on SSI disability and in a homeless shelter.
Chronic mental health diagnosis and unable to really work except for his Squeakymobile gig.
wow his life sucks far more than I could have ever imagined lol
what a pathetic dipshit
maybe he could hit up Robb for some dupster diving tips to stretch that out to 8k a year living costs
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Shannon not invited to the combine. If he had any intention of sticking to his word, truth would probably be pretty nervous.
I hold no delusions about that though.
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how the fuck you live on 13k a year lol I spend about that in a month
No, you don't.
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Shannon not invited to the combine. If he had any intention of sticking to his word, truth would probably be pretty nervous.
I hold no delusions about that though.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-draft-combine-2023-participants-list-date-time-location/spx1qfkab7sasj0zgoz826ml
Must be another TSJ then?
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Welp, when you fuck up you fuck up. Looks like I fucked up. My bad.
I'm sure Truth will love this, but I'm a grown up so I'll own up to it. Missed his name on the list.
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https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-draft-combine-2023-participants-list-date-time-location/spx1qfkab7sasj0zgoz826ml
Must be another TSJ then?
Stuff happens.
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Welp, when you fuck up you fuck up. Looks like I fucked up. My bad.
I'm sure Truth will love this, but I'm a grown up so I'll own up to it. Missed his name on the list.
WHAT STOP THE PRESSES....someone owned his/her shit? Kudo's and Well Done, what a refreshing thing to see.... :o, Dumfuknic taking notes in the "delivery" van? ;D
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There are 78 guys on that list. And there are several guys who emerge in workouts who are not on that list.
60 slots.
Both he and Hawkins are mid to late second at best unless they really shine.
But who knows. We will know nothing definite for weeks.
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No, you don't.
wanna bet?
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20 days left for this maggot.
Nichi and LKDog are next. Of course, nobody is gonna bet me bc they know I’m right.
Reading that Loyalty thread. Hilarious those idiots think Dennis is a lock when he’s visiting other schools. Not that he’s gonna matter one way or another (Illinois is gonna suck with him or without him) but I hope he does go someplace just to see the “explanations” from the insiders.
“Recruiting is fluid”. No. Diarrhea is fluid. Which is what IL is.
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wanna bet?
I, for one, am looking forward to this exchange.
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My best friend has a 1.5 million dollar home and like 4 really really fancy cars and i doubt he spends 13k a month. I suppose it’s possible though. He could be in that neighborhood, now that I think a little more about it. I might ask him.
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He travels a lot, so yeah, he probably does. Do bad weeks in Vegas count? Lol
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My best friend has a 1.5 million dollar home and like 4 really really fancy cars and i doubt he spends 13k a month. I suppose it’s possible though. He could be in that neighborhood, now that I think a little more about it. I might ask him.
The guy that trolls you on The FaceBook?
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He travels a lot, so yeah, he probably does. Do bad weeks in Vegas count? Lol
If you own your own place and car, and only need to spend about $300 a month on food then yea it’s quite easy to live on $1,300 a month. All the excess would be going to property tax expenses
If you spend more than $300 a month on food you are probably a fat ass.
So yeah it’s quite easy to live as a single person for that low of money.
I consider myself retired at this point
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wanna bet?
I doubt you'd pay up.
Feel free to pretend, but you should pick more realistic fantasies.
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If you own your own place and car, and only need to spend about $300 a month on food then yea it’s quite easy to live on $1,300 a month. All the excess would be going to property tax expenses
If you spend more than $300 a month on food you are probably a fat ass.
So yeah it’s quite easy to live as a single person for that low of money.
I consider myself retired at this point
If nobody would hire me because of my legal issues, I'd also pretend to be retired.
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I consider myself retired at this point
Hilarious.
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I doubt you'd pay up.
Feel free to pretend, but you should pick more realistic fantasies.
QAnon97 does not pay his bets?
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20 days left for this maggot.
Nichi and LKDog are next. Of course, nobody is gonna bet me bc they know I’m right.
Reading that Loyalty thread. Hilarious those idiots think Dennis is a lock when he’s visiting other schools. Not that he’s gonna matter one way or another (Illinois is gonna suck with him or without him) but I hope he does go someplace just to see the “explanations” from the insiders.
“Recruiting is fluid”. No. Diarrhea is fluid. Which is what IL is.
I assume most people don't want to bet you for the same reason they don't want to do contract work for Donald Trump. Gotta price in the fact that you've lost posting rights bet like, 4-5 times and never paid up.
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QAnon97 does not pay his bets?
He's so stupid he thinks intelligent people would believe a moron like him spends $13k a month.
Yeah, and Dominic graduated from UIUC.
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The guy that trolls you on The FaceBook?
Believe it or not, I have more than one friend.
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The guy on Facebook I honestly almost never see anymore. We were close in school, and even moreso after HS. Didn’t know this until recently but it seems we’re distant cousins. His dad showed up as like my 4th cousin on DNA app.
To be honest, my buddy was a bully growing up. He bullied me in grade school. But we’ve had a lot of good times together. He’s the one that inspired me to join the Corps.
We’re very different people today, though.
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We still message each other occasionally about sports and whatnot. He was a very good baseball player. Junior college All-American. When we played as kids he was the guy everyone backed up 40 feet for when he batted.
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Hilarious.
That was a good one…
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Believe it or not, I have more than one friend.
Just wondering if it was the same guy, Mr. Defensive.
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The guy on Facebook I honestly almost never see anymore. We were close in school, and even moreso after HS. Didn’t know this until recently but it seems we’re distant cousins. His dad showed up as like my 4th cousin on DNA app.
To be honest, my buddy was a bully growing up. He bullied me in grade school. But we’ve had a lot of good times together. He’s the one that inspired me to join the Corps.
We’re very different people today, though.
It appears he may still be bullying you with his memes, etc.
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I doubt you'd pay up.
Feel free to pretend, but you should pick more realistic fantasies.
Well I'm not going to dox myself
We pull in about 30-40k a month before taxes so why is spending 13k that out of the realm of possibility? Especially since it's for two people that travel quite a bit.
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20 days left for this maggot.
Nichi and LKDog are next. Of course, nobody is gonna bet me bc they know I’m right.
Reading that Loyalty thread. Hilarious those idiots think Dennis is a lock when he’s visiting other schools. Not that he’s gonna matter one way or another (Illinois is gonna suck with him or without him) but I hope he does go someplace just to see the “explanations” from the insiders.
“Recruiting is fluid”. No. Diarrhea is fluid. Which is what IL is.
Next for what Cab Boy? Tell us again about Illinois in the NIT you fucking Pedophile Bitch. Nobody gives a fuck what you have to say. You are the Village Idiot.
You get welfare checks don't you?
I bet you are one of those guys that also goes to multiple food pantries on different days and then brags about it you worthless pedophile scum.
Just STFU and go back to your Squeakymobile.
(https://www.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/videos/9391112/thumb/5.jpg?ip=x480)
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Well I'm not going to dox myself
We pull in about 30-40k a month before taxes so why is spending 13k that out of the realm of possibility? Especially since it's for two people that travel quite a bit.
(https://media.tenor.com/hiI1FL8uh9AAAAAC/john-hamm-sure.gif)
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LKDog is broken. I have literally broken him.
I think it’s time for you and your butt Buddy Nichi to run along back to Loyalty.
Illinois is gonna suck.
I am going to gloat about it.
And that’s just the way it’s gonna be.
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I consider myself retired at this point
(https://ihpl.llu.edu/sites/ihpl.llu.edu/files/field/image/blog-photo.jpg)
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LKDog is broken. I have literally broken him.
I think it’s time for you and your butt Buddy Nichi to run along back to Loyalty.
Illinois is gonna suck.
I am going to gloat about it.
And that’s just the way it’s gonna be.
LOL. You are mentally ill on SSi Disability. Your own parents will not even help you.
You are a pathetic sad fuck.
Have a nice life bitch.
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Illinois is gonna suck.
I am going to gloat about it.
And that’s just the way it’s gonna be.
Yes, we know. You gloat about them sucking whether they suck or not, that's why every single person here thinks you're a joke of a human being.
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Well I'm not going to dox myself
We pull in about 30-40k a month before taxes so why is spending 13k that out of the realm of possibility? Especially since it's for two people that travel quite a bit.
Very possible total expenses for a family.
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Very possible total expenses for a family.
Good point. Does QAnon have kids? This matters greatly. Doubt my buddy is at 13k a month without 3 kids (2 I’m guessing he pays child support for) and a newborn.
The kids split time 50/50 with parents, but I’m assuming he still pays child support. A lot of it.
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If you believe that moron lives in a household that pulls in 360-480k a year, I have an island property in Arizona to sell you.
It's a great deal, promise.
Maybe he pulls that in veritably, like Dom's billions?
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If you believe that moron lives in a household that pulls in 360-480k a year, I have an island property in Arizona to sell you.
It's a great deal, promise.
Maybe he pulls that in veritably, like Dom's billions?
It does seem a bit fringey.
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If you believe that moron lives in a household that pulls in 360-480k a year, I have an island property in Arizona to sell you.
It's a great deal, promise.
Maybe he pulls that in veritably, like Dom's billions?
You want to see my ferrari sparky boy?
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You want to see my ferrari sparky boy?
This is not a euphemism for your penis, is it?
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Here's mine.
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/210624133717-ferrari-296-gtb.jpg)
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You want to see my ferrari sparky boy?
Are you really Vin Diesel?
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I don't know much about anyone here personally.
Well except Squeaky NIT Pedophile who pukes out his pathetic sad personal details every five minutes.
When you add up a mortgage, health care, childcare, education, insurance, taxes, auto, home maintenance, etc.; and proactive investments and safeguards so you do not end up like Squeaky eating out of a dumpster, then $13K a month is not out of the question. Maybe he has a higher cost lifestyle.
Maybe he lives in a high wage income and higher cost of living area.
If he is making that income, that is good for him.
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I spend about $50k a month, so I'm obviously not too worried about it.
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Seems like Squeaky's braggadocios-ness on his spending backfired as everyone is way ahead of him.
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Are you really Vin Diesel?
I am not bald or gay so no
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Next time I’m at the beach I’ll make a video and give you a shoutout LK. You can tell me how much my life sucks lounging at the beach all day.
Not that I need to flex on a guy too ashamed to post his own videos or pictures. You’re like the trolls that post shit on IG celebrity profiles
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I am not bald or gay so no
Vin Diesel is gay? Huh, the things you learn here.
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Is Paloma Jiménez a dude?
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Is Paloma Jiménez a dude?
Gender is fluid.
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I'm sure it's easy to not have a job when you can't get a job because of your history of harassment.
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Gender is fluid.
Hey see my avatar. I obviously have some conflicts. Just glad I’ve never been attacked when choosing a bathroom yet.
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Next time I’m at the beach I’ll make a video and give you a shoutout LK. You can tell me how much my life sucks lounging at the beach all day.
Not that I need to flex on a guy too ashamed to post his own videos or pictures. You’re like the trolls that post shit on IG celebrity profiles
Please post more videos. They were a big hit. We want one where you are going through the garbage cans at the beach looking for your dinner.
And we have no doubt you spend time at the beach every day hanging around drooling by the kiddie pool with all of the other pedophiles doing pedophile things.
Keep sharing your miserable life details. It is hilarious.
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If you spend more than $300 a month on food you are probably a fat ass.
$300.00 a month, makes you a fat ass? Literally eating healthy (skinny ass) cost even more $$$
When/where do you buy groceries?
Dumpster Dive for the rest?
This might be the most telling post you have ever done. :P
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Here's mine.
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/210624133717-ferrari-296-gtb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SzGFrPy.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/SzGFrPy.jpg)
Well played, well played... ;D
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Didn’t QAnon move to Nevada because it’s cheaper? Wouldn’t think someone who spends 13k a month and drives a Ferrari would move to lower expenditures.
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Didn’t QAnon move to Nevada because it’s cheaper? Wouldn’t think someone who spends 13k a month and drives a Ferrari would move to lower expenditures.
Yes, yes he did.
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Didn’t QAnon move to Nevada because it’s cheaper? Wouldn’t think someone who spends 13k a month and drives a Ferrari would move to lower expenditures.
I moved from Chicago for a myriad of reasons
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I moved from Chicago for a myriad of reasons
Why not just go to Winnetka or Wilmette where you belong?
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(https://i.imgur.com/SzGFrPy.jpg)
Lol sparky getting embarrassed again. This faggot just needs to stay on scout where belongs
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(https://i.imgur.com/SzGFrPy.jpg)
That’s some quality photoshop.
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Why not just go to Winnetka or Wilmette where you belong?
Why would any wealthy person choose to pay insane amounts of “property + state income tax” when Florida/Texas offer no state income tax?
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Why not just go to Winnetka or Wilmette where you belong?
too jewish
lol
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too jewish
lol
True, wouldn’t want to get hit with one of those space lasers.
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(https://i.imgur.com/SzGFrPy.jpg)
POTY
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If you own your own place and car, and only need to spend about $300 a month on food then yea it’s quite easy to live on $1,300 a month. All the excess would be going to property tax expenses
If you spend more than $300 a month on food you are probably a fat ass.
So yeah it’s quite easy to live as a single person for that low of money.
I consider myself retired at this point
Looking forward to Karen setting the record straight.
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Looking forward to Karen setting the record straight.
Great call.
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Looking forward to Karen setting the record straight.
Maybe he is including spousal support for his ex and her husband?
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I’ll repeat; if you’re stupid enough to believe this moron drives a Ferrari and his household pulls in close to half a million a year then you might as well believe Dominic is a billionaire.
I’ll make sure to take a pic of my Lambo next time I walk by it.
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I’ll repeat; if you’re stupid enough to believe this moron drives a Ferrari and his household pulls in close to half a million a year then you might as well believe Dominic is a billionaire.
I’ll make sure to take a pic of my Lambo next time I walk by it.
He literally posted a picture with your name on it.
You been owned.
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I don't think anyone's surprised you're stupid enough to buy it, Dom.
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I’ll repeat; if you’re stupid enough to believe this moron drives a Ferrari and his household pulls in close to half a million a year then you might as well believe Dominic is a billionaire.
I’ll make sure to take a pic of my Lambo next time I walk by it.
LOL this is absolutely hilarious
Guess I should have just posted that I was dead and you would have believed it... what do you want to see spark? credit card bills? tax returns? pay checks? lol
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Guess I should have just posted that I was dead and you would have believed it...
Have to admit this crossed my mind during this kerfuffle.
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I’ll repeat; if you’re stupid enough to believe this moron drives a Ferrari and his household pulls in close to half a million a year then you might as well believe Dominic is a billionaire.
I’ll make sure to take a pic of my Lambo next time I walk by it.
I’ll ask, why are you so hesitant and resistant to believing his income couldn’t be what he says it is?! That’s weird fighting so hard to say it’s not. Do YOU do this when somebody tells you their gender too? Do YOU check? Wanna see receipts?! Instead of genitals, it’s tax returns because his Ferrari isn’t enough apparently.
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Have to admit this crossed my mind during this kerfuffle.
Me too, but honestly, who cares. It’s weird Spark is so resistant to believing him.
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Me too, but honestly, who cares. It’s weird Spark is so resistant to believing him.
well he thinks I'm an absolute moron (for whatever reason) so there's no way a moron can make a nice upper middle class income!
bizarre to say the least, and its funny because I was shitting on dom and then spark started this strange little kerfuffle
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I'd say I thought more of this place, but I suppose it's JudgeJudy.
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Nobody here, other than Illove, should give a shit what he makes or spends.
Welcome to the moron crowd tho.
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well he thinks I'm an absolute moron (for whatever reason) so there's no way a moron can make a nice upper middle class income!
bizarre to say the least, and its funny because I was shitting on dom and then spark started this strange little kerfuffle
Other than every post you've made here or at the first HQ, there's no reason to think you're an absolute moron.
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Nobody here, other than Illove, should give a shit what he makes or spends.
Welcome to the moron crowd tho.
Hey man, Spark says it can’t be so! Says I’m the idiot! Nobody can make that amount of money! 😂
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Other than every post you've made here or at the first HQ, there's no reason to think you're an absolute moron.
Appears you’re the judgmental one…
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Other than every post you've made here or at the first HQ, there's no reason to think you're an absolute moron.
Projection?!
-
I'd say I thought more of this place, but I suppose it's JudgeJudy.
Projection?!
You have a small penis? Or maybe not one at all?! 🤔
-
Other than every post you've made here or at the first HQ, there's no reason to think you're an absolute moron.
Other than every post you've made here or at the first HQ, there's no reason to think you're not a child diddling pedophile
-
This faggot Sparky really hates rich white people. Pretty sad to be honest.
So glad I get to ban this racist piece of shit in 20 days
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Projection?!
You have a small penis? Or maybe not one at all?! 🤔
Sparky is all about pronouns and Bud Light.
Whereas wealthy law abiding white people are the back bone of the US, Sparky is the anus of the US.
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well he thinks I'm an absolute moron (for whatever reason) so there's no way a moron can make a nice upper middle class income!
bizarre to say the least, and its funny because I was shitting on dom and then spark started this strange little kerfuffle
I know plenty of morons that make a lot of money. Generally they are great sales people who are approachable.
You don’t need to know calculus to sell.
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I know plenty of morons that make a lot of money. Generally they are great sales people who are approachable.
You don’t need to know calculus to sell.
very true, its not what you know its who you know
They evidently don't teach you that at Northwestern though LOL
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Projection?!
You have a small penis? Or maybe not one at all?! 🤔
I'm sure you'd like to check.
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I'm sure you'd like to check.
Sure. Quite the trope you’ve created.
And don’t flatter yourself. I’m sure you’d love me to.
-
I'm sure you'd like to check.
Speaking of projection…
-
Have you not made it extremely clear that you're very concerned with what genitals other people have?
Not like you've hidden it, you've mentioned it a bunch of times.
-
Insert Eating Popcorn GIF here....
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LOL this is absolutely hilarious
Guess I should have just posted that I was dead and you would have believed it... what do you want to see spark? credit card bills? tax returns? pay checks? lol
I would like to see, at minimum, your tax returns. Please supply SS# as well. DOB would probably also be helpful.
Thx
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I would like to see, at minimum, your tax returns. Please supply SS# as well. DOB would probably also be helpful.
Thx
Because it is a thing now...JudgeJudy wants to see a below the belt photo (unclothed) before you go into any public gendered restroom.
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I would like to see, at minimum, your tax returns. Please supply SS# as well. DOB would probably also be helpful.
Thx
lol
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Because it is a thing now...JudgeJudy wants to see a below the belt photo (unclothed) before you go into any public gendered restroom.
Uh oh, I’m getting the Tempo treatment now…
I’ve finally made it to the big time!!
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Other than every post you've made here or at the first HQ, there's no reason to think you're not a child diddling pedophile
This board already has that job filled by NIT Squeaky Pedophile.
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This board already has that job filled by NIT Squeaky Pedophile.
This board is a flame for such moths, apparently.
-
Quintessential HQ…
-
Maybe he is including spousal support for his ex and her husband?
And discounted uber rides.
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What a total fucking idiot. "I could literally do nothing for 6 years if I wanted too".
Cannot spell either.
Let's break that down. The Pedophole Retard claims he can live in his Squeakymobile for 6 years without working on $15,000 a year.
Good luck with that loser.
That will not even cover the candy you hand out on the playground.
(https://www.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/videos/9391112/thumb/5.jpg?ip=x480)
That looks like the ice cream truck in Davenport that my buddy sends me videos of occasionally. Although I think he has a different van now.
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Apparently Squeaky can pay a young girl $200 a week to fall in love with him.
I specifically started dating him solely on thinking he was a good person, I thought he was a stock trader. Outside my 401k, I bought my first stock Feb 2020. And I bought at $2.80 and watched it go to $17 twice and didn't sell. My dad pointed out the saying don't be a pig. But I became obsessed with it happening so fast. Then I met him and he lied. Then he layed it on thick. I think I was smarter than his norms because I went into clerk of courts and found his record. But I still gave him a chance, I really, truly ended up caring about him and at the least thought we were friends. I accepted so much and did so much for him.
He did give me covid the first time we ever met, end Dec 2021. I do have had severe long hauler results since. It would anger me so much when we dated that I was so sick and he would brag about driving old lady's, knowing he had it, and refused to wear a mask. Covid has caused permanent long term damage to my system. But like he said to Tempo "if covid affects you, you deserve to die". What type a person says that to a person. So I can only assume he thinks the same about everything health wise I have gone through this year. He never cared or was compassionate to me. But what ever problem he had I was there, anything good that happened to him I let him know I was happy for him.
I would always call him out on the underage stuff, pointing out I was underage and in college at a time. And I wouldn't want some to take advantage of me when I was so incapacitated "I would fuck a tree". I wasn't ever like that, but I think you get what I'm saying. He will only pick up girls with certain names. He's not terrible looking but does not look a day younger than 38 and he doesn't get it. He is educated, if he got a real job, he could prob get a successful, goodlooking 30/more 32+ girl. That's if he moved out of the dorms. There is the quote I'll attach.
He cheated on me, and said I should be a mature adult and it shouldnt hurt my feelings and started citing Bible verses supporting his belief. But the real eye opener was when he said maybe he would pay a young college girl $200 a week and they would fall for him. I told him hes missing the dollar amount by a mile. He said in the end they won't want his money. I said no bro, they will have a boyfriend under 30. $200 a week is not a sugar daddy. That's when he said he will find an undocumented woman on the internet.
I like this site and like talking sports. I deleted my accounts to appease him. I'm mainly gator and cubs, but watch other teams. I told him he was crazy. He made stupid accusations about me that weren't true, so wanted to say what is true. I'm not going to avoid places I like for his benefit. He's the one who gave me the links to here.
Below is the perfect quote .
I think he deep down is nice and a good person. But something with this pedofile stuff is something I've never seen. That why I think he has that disorder I said.
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Really some sad disgusting shit.
If Custard refuses to ban this piece of human pedophile garbage-he should at least pin this at top of every forum here.
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Fanin’s obsession with me is pathetic.
Get a life you old geek.
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Really some sad disgusting shit.
If Custard refuses to ban this piece of human pedophile garbage-he should at least pin this at top of every forum here.
After Sparky is gone forever, you’re next on my list.
Custard could easily ban every Democrat voter from this place (except Tempo he’s ok) and the IQ/per capital wealth/ and just overall cool factor with 100x.
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After Sparky is gone forever, you’re next on my list.
Custard could easily ban every Democrat voter from this place (except Tempo he’s ok) and the IQ/per capital wealth/ and just overall cool factor with 100x.
Try English next time, please.
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I like that Squeaky is a fan of Tempo.
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Fanin’s obsession with me is pathetic.
Get a life you old geek.
Love that you're broke and alone, after all your boasting on reborn.
Custard should ban your pathetic ass. No one wants a pedophile posting here.
Lastly go fuck yourself.
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Love that you're broke and alone, after all your boasting on reborn.
Custard should ban your pathetic ass. No one wants a pedophile posting here.
Lastly go fuck yourself.
Tempo may support him though.
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After Sparky is gone forever, you’re next on my list.
Custard could easily ban every Democrat voter from this place (except Tempo he’s ok) and the IQ/per capital wealth/ and just overall cool factor with 100x.
Your $15k annually is a drag on the right wingers here.
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Tempo may support him though.
Thought Squeaky's jealous that Karen thinks Tempo is better looking than Squeaky?
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Thought Squeaky's jealous that Karen thinks Tempo is better looking than Squeaky?
I think Squeaky is jealous Tempo has a kid with a nice golf swing and a higher Uber driver rating.
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After Sparky is gone forever, you’re next on my list.
Custard could easily ban every Democrat voter from this place (except Tempo he’s ok) and the IQ/per capital wealth/ and just overall cool factor with 100x.
"the IQ/per capital wealth/ and just overall cool factor with 100x."
This is gibberish.
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"the IQ/per capital wealth/ and just overall cool factor with 100x."
This is gibberish.
Ok most people can understand it but I will speak more clearly:
If Custard banned every Democrat voter, then the remaining posters here average:
*IQ level would increase
*Per Capita wealth would increase
*Cool Factor would go up 100x
Traffic would admittedly dwindle however as GOP voters have more incentive to enjoy life than complain on the internet.
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LOL. More people would appear here if you kept your ridiculous video up to laugh at.
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After Sparky is gone forever, you’re next on my list.
Custard could easily ban every Democrat voter from this place (except Tempo he’s ok) and the IQ/per capital wealth/ and just overall cool factor with 100x.
Zzzzzzzz.
Awwww, is da widdle NIT Fcktard Pedophile butthurt over being called a Fcktard Pedophile everyday here?
So Karen found your records as registered sex offender?
That is hilarious.
You are fucked for life condemned to eating shit out of garbage cans.
Karen laughs at your sad pathetic ass living in a fucking sleeping room you moron.
I would tell you to go fuck yourself but you already have.
Your life is basically over cab bitch.
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Ok most people can understand it but I will speak more clearly:
If Custard banned every Democrat voter, then the remaining posters here average:
*IQ level would increase
*Per Capita wealth would increase
*Cool Factor would go up 100x
Traffic would admittedly dwindle however as GOP voters have more incentive to enjoy life than complain on the internet.
You wrote 'with' instead of 'would increase' or 'would go up'.
I assumed that was what you were struggling to say. Most people would assume you were just stupid or too lazy to correct yourself.
You posts here do not exactly suggest you are a candidate for mensa.
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You wrote 'with' instead of 'would increase' or 'would go up'.
I assumed that was what you were struggling to say. Most people would assume you were just stupid or too lazy to correct yourself.
You posts here do not exactly suggest you are a candidate for mensa.
He is a registered sex offender who lost whatever little money he had in the Chinese stock market and lives in a flop house driving an Uber Pedophilemobile that people piss and puke and shit in every night. He is dead broke and apparently aspires to pay an 11 year old immigrant 200$ a month to fuck him.
No, he is not Mensa.
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Not defending Dom, but I know a kid who was a registered sex offender for 10 years. His crime was committed when he was he was 17 and his girl friend was 15. It involved consensual 'petting'. He is poor and black. The girl is white and from an influential family.
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Not defending Dom, but I know a kid who was a registered sex offender for 10 years. His crime was committed when he was he was 17 and his girl friend was 15. It involved consensual 'petting'. He is poor and black. The girl is white and from an influential family.
Well, there is no question money determines the level of justice you can buy.
Some guys get jail time for putting weights in fish.
Others rape women and lead an attempt to kill the VP and overthrow the government and can run for POTUS.
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Tempo may support him though.
Kind of surprised you don't. You seem to have a soft spot for white men with soiled character.
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Kind of surprised you don't. You seem to have a soft spot for white men with soiled character.
Great straw material. You are like Dom in that way, which is probably why he wants you to stay. How special for you.
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Not defending Dom, but I know a kid who was a registered sex offender for 10 years. His crime was committed when he was he was 17 and his girl friend was 15. It involved consensual 'petting'. He is poor and black. The girl is white and from an influential family.
Sounds like terrible parenting to even allow that.
When you got 5% of the population committing > 50% of all violent crime in the US, you stay away from that population. Common sense
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He is a registered sex offender who lost whatever little money he had in the Chinese stock market and lives in a flop house driving an Uber Pedophilemobile that people piss and puke and shit in every night. He is dead broke and apparently aspires to pay an 11 year old immigrant 200$ a month to fuck him.
No, he is not Mensa.
Uber doesn’t allow anyone with a record to drive for them. So I could easily sue you for defamation of character but you clearly don’t have anything anyway.
You are literally an unhinged lunatic. That can’t handle the fact I’m always right.
Just like after the Texas game, you were here running your mouth about how good Illinois was. Then you disappear after Mizzou.
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You are literally an unhinged lunatic. That can’t handle the fact I’m always right.
Hey NIT Squeaky Pedophile - we are still looking for the NIT results you promised.
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Looks like we can cross off Baylor on the list of contenders for the RayJ sweepstakes.
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https://news.yahoo.com/richey-rayj-dennis-bust-illini-144700000.html (https://news.yahoo.com/richey-rayj-dennis-bust-illini-144700000.html)
RayJ Dennis or bust for the Illini?
Scott Richey, The News-Gazette, Champaign-Urbana, Ill.
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Sounds like terrible parenting to even allow that.
When you got 5% of the population committing > 50% of all violent crime in the US, you stay away from that population. Common sense
Unless they are good athletes?
Actually, my impression is the girl's parents used their influence with the police and SA to have the boy arrested and charged.
Most of the time the police are not getting involved when the kids are that close in age..
The way the Illinois law is written, if two 16 year olds engage in multiple consensual private part touching; both could be charged with criminal sexual abuse and forced to register as sex offenders.
Again, the police generally have better things to do.
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https://help.uber.com/driving-and-delivering/article/what-does-the-background-check-look-for?nodeId=ee210269-89bf-4bd9-87f6-43471300ebf2
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https://news.yahoo.com/richey-rayj-dennis-bust-illini-144700000.html (https://news.yahoo.com/richey-rayj-dennis-bust-illini-144700000.html)
RayJ Dennis or bust for the Illini?
Scott Richey, The News-Gazette, Champaign-Urbana, Ill.
"They're not interested in a rebuild or reload or whatever you want to call it, and Underwood clearly isn't either."
It's called reloading.
'Sure, there are point guards going through the pre-draft process who have graduated and could still decide to return to college basketball and make a move."
The portal is closed.
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https://help.uber.com/driving-and-delivering/article/what-does-the-background-check-look-for?nodeId=ee210269-89bf-4bd9-87f6-43471300ebf2
Someone who claims to have a degree from U of I should have better employment options than uber.
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Someone who claims to have a degree from U of I should have better employment options than uber.
Tempo?
Dom?
What do you have to say for yourselves?!
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Tempo?
Dom?
What do you have to say for yourselves?!
I’m retired living by the beach in paradise. Why should I get a real job?
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part of me wants RJ to NOt pick the Illini to see how insiders spin it
If you’re an Illini fan, that’s dumb.
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part of me wants RJ to NOt pick the Illini to see how insiders spin it
You shut your whore mouth.
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No we’re just friends. She really wants to get married so I hope she finds the right guy.
I do not have the finances to marry anyone. I ruined my own finances making bad trades and now I just have to sit on it and wait for it to recover.
Most reasonable people put their IRAs into index funds. I didn’t. I dumped it all into a few stocks with the intent of turning a few hundred thousands into millions. Then was going to trade on that the rest of my life. Instead I got buried. Also used leverage got buried. Sold my home, put the equity into trading, got buried.
But those were the risks I took. Didn’t work out. Went for it and lost.
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I’m retired living by the beach in paradise. Why should I get a real job?
Sure you are.
You were broke last December.
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Karen has a strange way of showing it since she text me her boobs a couple days ago. They looked great I had to admit.
I never get depressed over relationships or girls. Just stock market.
I’ve lost like 90% of what I had. It’s rough. Went from a successful day trader making 200k a year to just getting by.
Bought SKLZ at $11. It had been $46. Went all the way to 2.50 before I sold at a 80% loss
Then bought KC at $5. It had been 76. It goes all the way down to 1.77. I’m still in it. If it gets back to where it was I’ll be comfortable making a good living. But till it does I make ends meet with Uber and spreading the word of God. I have Christian music playing when I make pickups so that’s my calling. I have finance degree I don’t do anything with. I’m having too much fun toting around college girls. And I’d do that even if stocks were doing better
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If you’re an Illini fan, that’s dumb.
But if you hate Illini fans, it’s 100% the right call.
Illinois will suck with Dennis
Illinois will suck without Dennis.
So with outcome being the same, watch the idiots on Loyalty cut n run with “recruiting is fluid”. “We were in it to the end” “Mom hates Underwood”.
Nothing but excuses from these losers.
Honestly hope Bielema leaves for a better job. The losers in Illini fanbase don’t deserve him
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Sure you are.
You were broke last December.
KC Software made a big run since last October. I’m doing better. Waiting to short the entire market and get back above 200,000
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The spreading the word of God and Christian music in the Uber part is just phenomenal.
Maybe Jobu's Hell would be riding in Dom's Uber instead of Tempo's Bears Talk Uber.
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Uber doesn’t allow anyone with a record to drive for them. So I could easily sue you for defamation of character but you clearly don’t have anything anyway.
You are literally an unhinged lunatic. That can’t handle the fact I’m always right.
Just like after the Texas game, you were here running your mouth about how good Illinois was. Then you disappear after Mizzou.
He's not suing anyone for defamation, it would all go to his previous
employer (atleast five yrs ago) who has a $500k judgement against him that he's in hiding from
Just stop already
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Sounds like terrible parenting to even allow that.
When you got 5% of the population committing > 50% of all violent crime in the US, you stay away from that population. Common sense
Sure glad this board doesn’t believe in moderation and enable open racists, great work guys
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He's not suing anyone for defamation, it would all go to his previous
employer (atleast five yrs ago) who has a $500k judgement against him that he's in hiding from
Just stop already
Not surprised whatsoever.
Lock him up!
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LvilleILL
LvilleILL
reckejo said:
sorry to reply to you specifically, but it's late and you're active :ROFLMAO: did you by chance hear anything about how RayJ's visit went today? I truly have no clue how Baylor's NIL situation is, and they're supposed to have decent guard play already, no? Walter is for sure gonna be a stud
Still think we are in a great spot
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Tempo?
Dom?
What do you have to say for yourselves?!
Until recently, the money was pretty good; and the schedule flexibility couldn’t be beaten. And no boss.
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He's not suing anyone for defamation, it would all go to his previous
employer (atleast five yrs ago) who has a $500k judgement against him that he's in hiding from
Just stop already
Maybe someone should alert the Judgment Creditor what Squeaky does for a "living" so that they can garnish his wages/earnings to start collecting on that judgment.
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Sounds like a comfy retirement.
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Hey Dom, come talk some football! I need something to cheer me up!
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Hey Dom, come talk some football! I need something to cheer me up!
Sad. SMDH.
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Until recently, the money was pretty good; and the schedule flexibility couldn’t be beaten. And no boss.
Thought that the money was OK until you need a different vehicle?
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Sad. SMDH.
His football takes are even funnier than yours.
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Thought that the money was OK until you need a different vehicle?
That is the big downside. Get a vehicle that doesn’t last, and you can be in for a rough period. You have to be smart about vehicle, maintenance, and save some pennies for repairs or even replacement.
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That is the big downside. Get a vehicle that doesn’t last, and you can be in for a rough period. You have to be smart about vehicle, maintenance, and save some pennies for repairs or even replacement.
Yeah is what I've heard... Seems the maintainence, repairs and eventual replacement don't make it a good long-term plan.
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Yeah is what I've heard... Seems the maintainence, repairs and eventual replacement don't make it a good long-term plan.
Especially now that the wages have dried up.
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Especially now that the wages have dried up.
Squeaky's prior employer will never get their $500k. Damn.
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Rayj visiting Utah which insiders never mentioned, yet people still waiting for insiders to give their opinion on this
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Rayj visiting Utah which insiders never mentioned, yet people still waiting for insiders to give their opinion on this
Sounds like you are our HQ2 Insider, Jasn88Cub!
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The Loyalty recruiting thread has updates all day. Actually pretty entertaining.
Big day for TSJ and CH when they scrimmage.
Will probably determine what they do in the end.
Who the hell knows for sure until the dust settles.
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Rayj visiting Utah which insiders never mentioned, yet people still waiting for insiders to give their opinion on this
If you want actual recruiting news, should just come here.
Hawkins will stay in the draft.
Shannon was never a possibility to ever come back.
And Dennis probably lands at a better team. Illlinois will then go get Jeremiah Williams for PG and the homers will claim he’s good when he hadn’t even played at a high D1 level and is coming off Achilles injury.
This 2023-24 team will be a soulless bad team. I predict an all time low in attendance at SFC
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If you want actual recruiting news, should just come here.
Hawkins will stay in the draft.
Shannon was never a possibility to ever come back.
And Dennis probably lands at a better team. Illlinois will then go get Jeremiah Williams for PG and the homers will claim he’s good when he hadn’t even played at a high D1 level and is coming off Achilles injury.
This 2023-24 team will be a soulless bad team. I predict an all time low in attendance at SFC
Will the Illini make the NIT? Or is that a standing prediction for you?
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Will the Illini make the NIT? Or is that a standing prediction for you?
No NIT. But an attendance level that would make people miss the Groce years
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No NIT. But an attendance level that would make people miss the Groce years
So NIT Fcktard is on record now that Illinois will not make any postseason tournament and have record low attendance.
Got it.
How about you agree to feed yourself to the alligators when you are wrong yet again.
Can't wait.
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So NIT Fcktard is on record now that Illinois will not make any postseason tournament and have record low attendance.
Got it.
How about you agree to feed yourself to the alligators when you are wrong yet again.
Can't wait.
Who’s gonna come watch a team of 1 year mediocre players?
Look at the Cubs attendance.
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Who’s gonna come watch a team of 1 year mediocre players?
Look at the Cubs attendance.
You do know Cubs ranks #9 in avg attendance right, "Mr I'm Always Right"
And they have sucked a long time. So what is your point?
*Home
Like I said you are "Special"
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He's Tempo lite.
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LvilleILL said:
lol come on man
jasn88cubs
I mean your the same one who said he was visiting Baylor, Michigan then back to Illinois and commit to us. I don't recall Utah being thrown in anywhere and this is taking alot longer than what you made it seem so not sure why you would ridicule that post
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LvilleILL said:
lol come on man
jasn88cubs
I mean your the same one who said he was visiting Baylor, Michigan then back to Illinois and commit to us. I don't recall Utah being thrown in anywhere and this is taking alot longer than what you made it seem so not sure why you would ridicule that post
The inmates are running the asylum there this morning.
Going to be quite a few time outs handed out. Lol.
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The inmates are running the asylum there this morning.
Going to be quite a few time outs handed out. Lol.
Pretty sure they put me on ignore lol
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If you want actual recruiting news, should just come here.
Hawkins will stay in the draft.
Shannon was never a possibility to ever come back.
And Dennis probably lands at a better team. Illlinois will then go get Jeremiah Williams for PG and the homers will claim he’s good when he hadn’t even played at a high D1 level and is coming off Achilles injury.
This 2023-24 team will be a soulless bad team. I predict an all time low in attendance at SFC
I assume people who want actual recruiting news would go to someone who knows WTF they're talking about - and if not that, then obviously not someone who has been wrong about 99% of things he's said for multiple consecutive decades.
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No NIT. But an attendance level that would make people miss the Groce years
Okay so playing the numbers, we're likely to win the league this year.
Betting against Truth is easy, easy money. Which is why he's broke and alone.
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He's Tempo lite.
You're a fucking idiot.
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I assume people who want actual recruiting news would go to someone who knows WTF they're talking about - and if not that, then obviously not someone who has been wrong about 99% of things he's said for multiple consecutive decades.
*Bret Bielema will be the answer to Illinois football (before he was even hired)
*Kofi Cockburn will enter the 2022 draft and not return
*Skyy Clark will SUCK. (Didn’t even make it a semester).
* TSJ will not return
*2022-23 Illinois will suck
*Purdue is the best team in the Big 10 (7 games into the season)
* Illinois will destroy NW. 42-0
When I speak it, take it to the bank. When I put my word on the line, it’s done.
You got 14 days Trent. Then your faggot ass is gone and will never be back
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*Bret Bielema will be the answer to Illinois football (before he was even hired)
*Kofi Cockburn will enter the draft
* TSJ will not return
*2022-23 Illinois will suck
*Purdue is the best team in the Big 10 (7 games into the season)
* Illinois will destroy NW. 42-0
When I speak it, take it to the bank. When I put my word on the line, it’s done.
You got 14 days Trent. Then your faggot ass is gone and will never be back
😂 you’re a fucking moron…
And who the fuck is Trent?!
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Okay so playing the numbers, we're likely to win the league this year.
Betting against Truth is easy, easy money. Which is why he's broke and alone.
Dude, you literally bet me Shannon was returning the very week he declared for the draft.
You claimed ILL97 doesn’t drive a Ferrari. He literally took a picture calling you out of it.
Just go back to the Scout Board TRENT. You and Swank59 can jerk each other off about how good finishing in 10th place is going to be.
I really do hope Bielema leaves bc he’s too good for fans like you. And don’t pretend that you even wanted him as coach. You were one of these easily triggered faggots that was was offended by Bielema. You’re just a loser Trent. My advice just stay the fuck in Illinois where your votes are limited to damaging that state.
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😂 you’re a fucking moron…
And who the fuck is Trent?!
On the scout board, Sparky’s name is TrentReynolds. He and Swank59 are the two biggest examples of why Illinois sports have been terrible for the last 15 years (sans Bielema). Easily offended, far leftist, absolute mediocrity accepting.
I’m doing my best to keep that trash on that board. And off this board.
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Lol
Who knew Dom was fighting such a noble cause?
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Lol
Who knew Dom was fighting such a noble cause?
I know, right?!
All due respect, I’m sure he doesn’t have much else to do…
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*Bret Bielema will be the answer to Illinois football (before he was even hired)
*Kofi Cockburn will enter the 2022 draft and not return
*Skyy Clark will SUCK. (Didn’t even make it a semester).
* TSJ will not return
*2022-23 Illinois will suck
*Purdue is the best team in the Big 10 (7 games into the season)
* Illinois will destroy NW. 42-0
When I speak it, take it to the bank. When I put my word on the line, it’s done.
You got 14 days Trent. Then your faggot ass is gone and will never be back
We're not willing to pretend with you Dom.
I appreciate you giving me credit for being a man of my word. It's one of the many major differences between the two of us. I will actually be a man and stick to my word.
Literally zero people expect that of you, because you're a beta moron.
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Dude, you literally bet me Shannon was returning the very week he declared for the draft.
You claimed ILL97 doesn’t drive a Ferrari. He literally took a picture calling you out of it.
Just go back to the Scout Board TRENT. You and Swank59 can jerk each other off about how good finishing in 10th place is going to be.
I really do hope Bielema leaves bc he’s too good for fans like you. And don’t pretend that you even wanted him as coach. You were one of these easily triggered faggots that was was offended by Bielema. You’re just a loser Trent. My advice just stay the fuck in Illinois where your votes are limited to damaging that state.
I don't live in Illinois - add it to the list of shit you're wrong about.
Shannon is still not sure if he's coming back. Makes your nonsense here particularly funny.
I was pretty stoked when we got Bielema, actually - another one for the list.
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On the scout board, Sparky’s name is TrentReynolds. He and Swank59 are the two biggest examples of why Illinois sports have been terrible for the last 15 years (sans Bielema). Easily offended, far leftist, absolute mediocrity accepting.
I’m doing my best to keep that trash on that board. And off this board.
This is the dude who went to the moderators at Scout and begged them to let him stay after he was banned, by his accounting, for the 20th time or so. When they said no, he sent hundreds (maybe thousands) of unhinged and explicit PMs to everyone on the board. I got 50+.
Can't make that shit up. What a pathetic guy.
Imagine how depressed you'd be if that kind of shit was the only thing you had to cling to in your entire life.
Shannon still may go pro, and if he does I'll leave - but I still don't have to live your pathetic unfulfilled life and you do, so I'm happy with the trade off if it comes to that.
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I know, right?!
All due respect, I’m sure he doesn’t have much else to do…
True. I’m retired. Posting from the beach between getting in the water
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True. I’m retired. Posting from the beach between getting in the water
Getting in your weekly bath?
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True. I’m retired. Posting from the beach between getting in the water
The notion of being retired at 40 something with $80k in the bank - ignoring that that figure, like everything else you say, is almost certainly a lie - and bragging about it is a perfect joke, just like everything else in your life. Just hilarious.
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The notion of being retired at 40 something with $80k in the bank - ignoring that that figure, like everything else you say, is almost certainly a lie - and bragging about it is a perfect joke, just like everything else in your life. Just hilarious.
You want me to take picture for you to? I’ll show you my beach just like 97 showed you his ferrari
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Lol I'm walking home from pool now did anyone see Uber just passed rides minors 13-17 today.
Wow I predict Uber is going to be out of business in the near future. Drivers murdered with package pickup. Then allowing people to take rides with people who prey on them.
*"And sorry should have taken this topic to off topic, I was just shocked. Maybe mod can move it.
Scary world we are in now.
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Lol I'm walking home from pool now did anyone see Uber just passed rides minors 13-17 today.
Wow I predict Uber is going to be out of business in the near future. Drivers murdered with package pickup. Then allowing people to take rides with people who prey on them.
*"And sorry should have taken this topic to off topic, I was just shocked. Maybe mod can move it.
Scary world we are in now.
The entire forum is off topic.
Alert the authorities if Squeaky can pick up 13 year olds who are alone.
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Okay so playing the numbers, we're likely to win the league this year.
Betting against Truth is easy, easy money. Which is why he's broke and alone.
Being $500k down isn't a winner with the ladies.
What a loser.
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He's not suing anyone for defamation, it would all go to his previous
employer (atleast five yrs ago) who has a $500k judgement against him that he's in hiding from
Just stop already
Finally found something Squeaky's an expert in.
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You want me to take picture for you to? I’ll show you my beach just like 97 showed you his ferrari
I believe your stupid ass is on a beach instead of trying to find a job.
It's probably a waste of time for you to look for a job anyway with your history, but still.
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You want me to take picture for you to? I’ll show you my beach just like 97 showed you his ferrari
Take a pic of the tent you're living in.
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That's a pretty weird obsession you've got with those dudes, jasn.
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You want me to take picture for you to? I’ll show you my beach just like 97 showed you his ferrari
Anyone can take a picture of a beach.
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I took this picture in Mexico in December. This is the beach “I live on.”
(https://i.postimg.cc/zGDhT92r/C5783-D9-F-1542-49-F8-B228-71-B77065-A7-D7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TpSh6HX7)
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I “live here.” That’s my condo building to the right.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qvdTYrVP/4-C129-D36-EBFA-4-E9-B-8223-6-C2-AF24-F9568.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzQSh97w)
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Squeaky Beach, FL
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-I originally said Shannon first to decide, but sounds like it’ll be RayJ. Here’s everything that I’ve heard the last 24 hours (I’ve been on vacation, so I’m in a different time zone). There’s been a lot of different buzz on different timelines, but this is what is expected as of tonight.
RayJ is going to be first this week. Sounds like Coleman and Shannon will be later in the week/weekend
Shannon still expected back but has one more workout left. Coleman has a one workout left as well, but he may not go to it. I was told unless Shannon gets an absolute guarantee from two different teams in the top 40, he’s coming back. He’s making an announcement this coming weekend Friday-Sunday. 80%ish chance he comes back. Coleman is still up in the air imo. But landing a very good pg makes it a lot more likely that he comes back, and we are going to do that.
There’s a solid backup plan for RayJ, but I’m very confident in Illinois landing him and not needing to do that. Getting RayJ makes Shannon and Coleman even more likely to come back too imo. The staff is expecting to land RayJ, as am I.
I will say though, there is a VERY good backup plan if RayJ doesn’t go our way (I expect he does). I was a little worried about having too many eggs in one basket, but the name I was given (grad transfer) blew me away. Again, don’t think it’ll come to this though-we will know for sure in the next two days.
We WILL have all the answers for the three guys mentioned at the end of the week. I expect we get 2/3, but all 3 is not off the table. I’m really excited about what the team can do next year-I’ve heard some really good things about the progression of certain guys already on the team. I’m checking off the board for a few days, but may stop by if we get some good news :). Keep a close eye on a RayJ announcement Monday or Tuesday
----We were suppose to hear something last week, then over the weekend, now its next weekend
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Not too worried about it. We will be competitive when it is all put together.
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Not too worried about it. We will be competitive when it is all put together.
1st rd loss or 2nd rd loss?
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You never know.
But NIT Fcktard Pedophile is already on record as saying we miss both NCAA and NIT and have record low attendance.
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You never know.
But NIT Fcktard Pedophile is already on record as saying we miss both NCAA and NIT and have record low attendance.
well I won't be in attendance for any games
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You kind of have a hard on about the team.
What's up with that. They are figuring it out.
Nobody has been crazy about the tourney shitshows, but you have to give UW credit for getting us back in the mix.
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You kind of have a hard on about the team.
What's up with that. They are figuring it out.
Nobody has been crazy about the tourney shitshows, but you have to give UW credit for getting us back in the mix.
we don't even have a team yet
instead we are waiting to see if a MAC transfer is coming and waiting on 2 guys, 1 who pump fakes to much and 1 who can't go right
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well I won't be in attendance for any games
You still gonna buy tickets like you did last year?
No one will notice you're not there, promise.
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You still gonna buy tickets like you did last year?
No one will notice you're not there, promise.
Are you sure there are no people out there who share the same view as Jasn?
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Not too worried about it. We will be competitive when it is all put together.
31-45 major conference record without Kofi Cockburn,
The team will suck and then you’ll also decide that Underwood should be fired
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You still gonna buy tickets like you did last year?
No one will notice you're not there, promise.
hell no
will you?
enjoy paying for the salary of the 8TH highest coach in America who can't get to the sweet 16
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-I originally said Shannon first to decide, but sounds like it’ll be RayJ. Here’s everything that I’ve heard the last 24 hours (I’ve been on vacation, so I’m in a different time zone). There’s been a lot of different buzz on different timelines, but this is what is expected as of tonight.
RayJ is going to be first this week. Sounds like Coleman and Shannon will be later in the week/weekend
Shannon still expected back but has one more workout left. Coleman has a one workout left as well, but he may not go to it. I was told unless Shannon gets an absolute guarantee from two different teams in the top 40, he’s coming back. He’s making an announcement this coming weekend Friday-Sunday. 80%ish chance he comes back. Coleman is still up in the air imo. But landing a very good pg makes it a lot more likely that he comes back, and we are going to do that.
There’s a solid backup plan for RayJ, but I’m very confident in Illinois landing him and not needing to do that. Getting RayJ makes Shannon and Coleman even more likely to come back too imo. The staff is expecting to land RayJ, as am I.
I will say though, there is a VERY good backup plan if RayJ doesn’t go our way (I expect he does). I was a little worried about having too many eggs in one basket, but the name I was given (grad transfer) blew me away. Again, don’t think it’ll come to this though-we will know for sure in the next two days.
We WILL have all the answers for the three guys mentioned at the end of the week. I expect we get 2/3, but all 3 is not off the table. I’m really excited about what the team can do next year-I’ve heard some really good things about the progression of certain guys already on the team. I’m checking off the board for a few days, but may stop by if we get some good news :). Keep a close eye on a RayJ announcement Monday or Tuesday
----We were suppose to hear something last week, then over the weekend, now its next weekend
BrooksTaylorFan knows absolutely nothing. If Dan allowed posts over there, I’d light this fucker up.
I love the part where he’s not going to post for a few days 😂
And next weekend will find out? Well considering May 31 is the deadline…duh
What happened to Shannon telling Underwood he’s coming back and to expect an announcement over the weekend? Sparky getting his panties wet over BrooksTaylorFan fans delusions.
And “a great backup plan if RayJ doesn’t come”.
So many Baghdad Bob’s in this fanbase.
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hell no
will you?
enjoy paying for the salary of the 8TH highest coach in America who can't get to the sweet 16
8th highest paid coach in America won’t even finish 8th in the Big 10
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Not be a bearer of potential bad news, but via Portal, I do not see any "very good backup plan" listed as a grad transfer PG.
That said, I did just scan through quickly so maybe I missed BU next saving grace.
RayJ, will commit and TSJ, Hawk both are coming back...2024 is so weak, if they ONLY have the same type of years and nothing better, they will move up by default to high 2nd rd and or lower 1st rd next year.
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8th highest paid coach in America won’t even finish 8th in the Big 10
Such a sad attention seeking infant.
Even worse this is your only interaction with anyone in your life.
But that is what happens with borderlines.
No relationships. Can't keep a job.
In legal trouble. Broke. Delusional view of self.
I see you have a new account on Loyalty or are copying and pasting verbatim from one. Good luck with that.
Such a pathetic life.
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Are you sure there are no people out there who share the same view as Jasn?
I'm sure I didn't say anything remotely approaching this.
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hell no
will you?
enjoy paying for the salary of the 8TH highest coach in America who can't get to the sweet 16
I don't live in town. The only time I get to pay to see 'em it's paying a rival.
I'll enjoy continuing to be a nationally relevant program finally, and you can enjoy whining about it incessantly. Deal?
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Not be a bearer of potential bad news, but via Portal, I do not see any "very good backup plan" listed as a grad transfer PG.
That said, I did just scan through quickly so maybe I missed BU next saving grace.
RayJ, will commit and TSJ, Hawk both are coming back...2024 is so weak, if they ONLY have the same type of years and nothing better, they will move up by default to high 2nd rd and or lower 1st rd next year.
I'll eat my hat if Shannon or Hawkins is ever a first round pick. Another year older is going to hurt their stock, not help it.
Doesn't mean they shouldn't come back by any means.
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Such a sad attention seeking infant.
Even worse this is your only interaction with anyone in your life.
But that is what happens with borderlines.
No relationships. Can't keep a job.
In legal trouble. Broke. Delusional view of self.
I see you have a new account on Loyalty or are copying and pasting verbatim from one. Good luck with that.
Such a pathetic life.
One of my friends has borderline and you're really misselling her here.
Truth is those things, but doesn't mean all or even most people with borderline personality disorder are. Truth's just a particularly pathetic person.
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I'm sure I didn't say anything remotely approaching this.
I did not say that you did. I was asking a question since you said
No one will notice you're not there, promise.
If there are people who share Jasn's view, and tickets go unsold, that will be noticed.
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I sincerely doubt they're going to have trouble selling tickets, outside of the Truth fever dream of record low attendance.
We're finally winning again, people aren't going to stop coming now until that isn't true.
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I don't live in town. The only time I get to pay to see 'em it's paying a rival.
I'll enjoy continuing to be a nationally relevant program finally, and you can enjoy whining about it incessantly. Deal?
There’s nothing nationally relevant with Illinois. Are the Iowa Hawkeyes “nationally relevant”? They must be too. Similar record and all.
Sparky is the Ron Turner fan before 2003. He’s still celebrating being better than Lou Tepper as if that’s an accomplishment.
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One of my friends has borderline and you're really misselling her here.
Truth is those things, but doesn't mean all or even most people with borderline personality disorder are. Truth's just a particularly pathetic person.
I know someone who was misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder, based primarily on one test and a few adolescent scrapes with the law.
Years later, he runs a successful business with dozens of employees.
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Not be a bearer of potential bad news, but via Portal, I do not see any "very good backup plan" listed as a grad transfer PG.
That said, I did just scan through quickly so maybe I missed BU next saving grace.
RayJ, will commit and TSJ, Hawk both are coming back...2024 is so weak, if they ONLY have the same type of years and nothing better, they will move up by default to high 2nd rd and or lower 1st rd next year.
A grad transfer can enter the portal any time.
Shannon should return for the NIL and the education.
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A grad transfer can enter the portal any time.
Shannon should return for the NIL and the education.
Good to know, but I don't see any on the horizen that would be a "very good" get that known. We get RayJ anyway still imo, so moot point.
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I know someone who was misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder, based primarily on one test and a few adolescent scrapes with the law.
Years later, he runs a successful business with dozens of employees.
How did you get my info?
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Good to know, but I don't see any on the horizen that would be a "very good" get that known. We get RayJ anyway still imo, so moot point.
I had never heard of RayJ
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I know someone who was misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder, based primarily on one test and a few adolescent scrapes with the law.
Years later, he runs a successful business with dozens of employees.
His name? Shahid Khan...
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There’s nothing nationally relevant with Illinois. Are the Iowa Hawkeyes “nationally relevant”? They must be too. Similar record and all.
Sparky is the Ron Turner fan before 2003. He’s still celebrating being better than Lou Tepper as if that’s an accomplishment.
I know it sucks that the program you've dedicated 20 years of your life to tearing down is finally good again, but try to man up for the last few days you have somebody to whine to about it.
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His name? Shahid Khan...
Married to Chaka?
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I know it sucks that the program you've dedicated 20 years of your life to tearing down is finally good again, but try to man up for the last few days you have somebody to whine to about it.
They were good with Kofi.
They suck now
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Of course when Kofi committed here you said all the same shit you're saying right now, all the same shit you say every time, no matter the context, no matter what. They suck, they'll always suck, Kofi is out of shape and sucks and will never contribute at this level, Underwood sucks, etc.
You were sure they would be terrible last year, maybe an NIT team, 14 wins or whatever - and when they weren't that at all, you simply asked all of us to pretend with you that they were.
Weird coincidence! It's almost like you simply predict we will suck every year, and when we don't you pretend we did!
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Of course when Kofi committed here you said all the same shit you're saying right now, all the same shit you say every time, no matter the context, no matter what. They suck, they'll always suck, Kofi is out of shape and sucks and will never contribute at this level, Underwood sucks, etc.
You were sure they would be terrible last year, maybe an NIT team, 14 wins or whatever - and when they weren't that at all, you simply asked all of us to pretend with you that they were.
Weird coincidence! It's almost like you simply predict we will suck every year, and when we don't you pretend we did!
Yep. Squeaky hated on Kofi when he was a Freshman and said the 2019-2020 team was NIT bound.
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Such a sad attention seeking infant.
Even worse this is your only interaction with anyone in your life.
But that is what happens with borderlines.
No relationships. Can't keep a job.
In legal trouble. Broke. Delusional view of self.
I see you have a new account on Loyalty or are copying and pasting verbatim from one. Good luck with that.
Such a pathetic life.
Am wondering if Squeaky will get locked up soon for evading the $500k judgment.
Squeaky will be in perfect company in prison.
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last year's team was NOT terrible
but they were pretty freaking average and pain to watch
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Watching the back tracking on that Loyalty thread is hilarious. Dan gonna be deleting lot of posts bc even the myopic believe anything types are getting restless.
To think Spark got his panties wet over BrooksTaylorFan’s recruiting “info”.
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Am wondering if Squeaky will get locked up soon for evading the $500k judgment.
Squeaky will be in perfect company in prison.
I don’t owe anyone anything. My credit score is higher than yours I’ll bet. Over 800. Been nearly over 800 almost my entire life
Trust me I know it kills you that I live a great life in a great place, but good things tend to happen to people that are smart Christian Conservatives with a strong worth ethic.
My advice stop voting for Democrats. Go to a strong Bible based Christian church. Stop being offended and be productive.
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I don’t owe anyone anything. My credit score is higher than yours I’ll bet. Over 800. Been nearly over 800 almost my entire life
Trust me I know it kills you that I live a great life in a great place, but good things tend to happen to people that are smart Christian Conservatives with a strong worth ethic.
My advice stop voting for Democrats. Go to a strong Bible based Christian church. Stop being offended and be productive.
Yeah, you looked like a True Believer sweating your ass off with your eyes bugging out in that video you posted.
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I don’t owe anyone anything. My credit score is higher than yours I’ll bet. Over 800. Been nearly over 800 almost my entire life
Trust me I know it kills you that I live a great life in a great place, but good things tend to happen to people that are smart Christian Conservatives with a strong worth ethic.
My advice stop voting for Democrats. Go to a strong Bible based Christian church. Stop being offended and be productive.
Lol.
Yeah. Alleged retired 40something, who is $500k in the hole, is also productive and has a good work ethic.
Your stories never add up.
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Lol.
Yeah. Alleged retired 40something, who is $500k in the hole, is also productive and has a good work ethic.
Your stories never add up.
I’m not $500k in any hole. Don’t listen to Karen. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about
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I’m not $500k in any hole. Don’t listen to Karen. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about
Why would she lie?
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Dom is a good born again Christian man. Who knew?
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Dom is good born again Christian man. Who knew?
He's a regular Jim Bakker.
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I’m not $500k in any hole. Don’t listen to Karen. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about
I believe her.
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I’m not $500k in any hole. Don’t listen to Karen. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about
I said old employer has $500k judgement
Don't talk sh*t to me here
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I said old employer has $500k judgement
Don't talk sh*t to me here
Tell your dog to bite Dom in the crotch.
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I said old employer has $500k judgement
Don't talk sh*t to me here
Lol. Karen bitch slapping NIT Fcktard.
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I don’t owe anyone anything. My credit score is higher than yours I’ll bet. Over 800. Been nearly over 800 almost my entire life
Trust me I know it kills you that I live a great life in a great place, but good things tend to happen to people that are smart Christian Conservatives with a strong worth ethic.
My advice stop voting for Democrats. Go to a strong Bible based Christian church. Stop being offended and be productive.
Just pretend with me guys.
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Watching the back tracking on that Loyalty thread is hilarious. Dan gonna be deleting lot of posts bc even the myopic believe anything types are getting restless.
To think Spark got his panties wet over BrooksTaylorFan’s recruiting “info”.
Still sweatin' I see.
Nobody will miss you after you get banned, sorry to say. You're probably used to that though.
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I said old employer has $500k judgement
Don't talk sh*t to me here
What football game shall we attend
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Still sweatin' I see.
Nobody will miss you after you get banned, sorry to say. You're probably used to that though.
I’ll miss his crazy hilarious football takes.
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Still sweatin' I see.
Nobody will miss you after you get banned, sorry to say. You're probably used to that though.
Trent, go back to talking to the 3 people on the Scout forum. You’ve literally killed that board. Lowest traffic I’ve ever seen on there.
You got 6 days left. Then the cancer is gone. It’ll be a breath of fresh air.
Nichi and LKDog are next on my list.
Systematically getting rid of every dumb ass here till it’s just 97, Tempo, Sharethejuice, Calvin, Custard, Jobu and myself talking.
You faggots (spark, paman,LKDog,nichi) are all gone.
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Trent, go back to talking to the 3 people on the Scout forum. You’ve literally killed that board. Lowest traffic I’ve ever seen on there.
You got 6 days left. Then the cancer is gone. It’ll be a breath of fresh air.
Nichi and LKDog are next on my list.
Systematically getting rid of every dumb ass here till it’s just 97, Tempo, Sharethejuice, Calvin, Custard, Jobu and myself talking.
You faggots (spark, paman,LKDog,nichi) are all gone.
Repost the video of your sweaty, eye bulging, squeaky voiced ass, please!
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Trent, go back to talking to the 3 people on the Scout forum. You’ve literally killed that board. Lowest traffic I’ve ever seen on there.
You got 6 days left. Then the cancer is gone. It’ll be a breath of fresh air.
Nichi and LKDog are next on my list.
Systematically getting rid of every dumb ass here till it’s just 97, Tempo, Sharethejuice, Calvin, Custard, Jobu and myself talking.
You faggots (spark, paman,LKDog,nichi) are all gone.
Ah yes, a bunch of people who think you're a moron and a terrible person. Then again, literally every person on earth thinks that.
This board deserves you, for sure, but that won't save you. You've got a few more days. Enjoy the last time you'll be allowed to post on an Illini board without pretending you're a decent human being. No board wants you.
I know you won't leave because you're an absolute coward incapable of manning up and sticking to your word, so we'll just have you banned.
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---Logging off for a few days. We will have answers on RayJ, Shannon, and Coleman within the next week. See y'all on the other side!
One more thing to note-Don't focus on specific days for some of these things to get announced. People keep offering up different dates/times. It will all come in the next week!---
So he posts specific days that there will be announcements now says don't pay attention to when dates are given?
What?
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Trent, go back to talking to the 3 people on the Scout forum. You’ve literally killed that board. Lowest traffic I’ve ever seen on there.
You got 6 days left. Then the cancer is gone. It’ll be a breath of fresh air.
Nichi and LKDog are next on my list.
Systematically getting rid of every dumb ass here till it’s just 97, Tempo, Sharethejuice, Calvin, Custard, Jobu and myself talking.
You faggots (spark, paman,LKDog,nichi) are all gone.
You use the word faggots a lot.
Let's add latent homosexual to your diagnostic profile.
We already know any adult woman scares the absolute shit out of you.
You are one really fucked up guy.
Keep trying to fight it NIT Squeaky Fcktard.
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---Logging off for a few days. We will have answers on RayJ, Shannon, and Coleman within the next week. See y'all on the other side!
One more thing to note-Don't focus on specific days for some of these things to get announced. People keep offering up different dates/times. It will all come in the next week!---
So he posts specific days that there will be announcements now says don't pay attention to when dates are given?
What?
Jasn, I think you have answered your own question, and the answer is "No."
Now, let's focus on you having a meet up with Karen. Can you go to Florida to meet up with her? She may not want to travel due to the Long COVID issues she has.
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Jasn, I think you have answered your own question, and the answer is "No."
Now, let's focus on you having a meet up with Karen. Can you go to Florida to meet up with her? She may not want to travel due to the Long COVID issues she has.
i didn't know she had covid issues
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i didn't know she had covid issues
Let's remain focused on the positives here, Jasn.
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---Logging off for a few days. We will have answers on RayJ, Shannon, and Coleman within the next week. See y'all on the other side!
One more thing to note-Don't focus on specific days for some of these things to get announced. People keep offering up different dates/times. It will all come in the next week!---
So he posts specific days that there will be announcements now says don't pay attention to when dates are given?
What?
sounds to me like he's full of shit
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Hey Karen I’m flying to Florida the first week of June. I’m quite a ways north from you but I’ll be in the Vero Beach area during that time.
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Hey Karen I’m flying to Florida the first week of June. I’m quit a ways north from you but I’ll be in the Vero Beach area during that time.
The race is apparently on. Next move to Jasn.
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The race is apparently on. Next move to Jasn.
Dom, I’d love to meet up and have your pedophile ass arrested. Interested…?!
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Dom, I’d love to meet up and have your pedophile ass arrested. Interested…?!
What will happen if you bring your daughter, and Dom tries to go into the same public restroom?
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What will happen if you bring your daughter, and Dom tries to go into the same public restroom?
I’d cut his fucking dick off and feed it to him…
Edit- and I don’t give a fuck what Spark thinks.
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I’d cut his fucking dick off and feed it to him…
Edit- and I don’t give a fuck what Spark thinks.
Lol.
Alligators. He needs to be fed to alligators. Like in Runner Runner movie.
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lol now people at loyalty who said RAYJ was the number 1 guy are now saying they'd rather have Collins
LOl
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Not sure I've ever seen someone so obsessed with what the Illinois Loyalty guys say than jasn.
He's like Judy and somebody's junk, just has to know.
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lol now people at loyalty who said RAYJ was the number 1 guy are now saying they'd rather have Collins
LOl
😂 is right. Can’t believe Sparky and LKDog fell for these geeks.
I’m the only insider on the internet. And that’s a fact.
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Not sure I've ever seen someone so obsessed with what the Illinois Loyalty guys say than jasn.
He's like Judy and somebody's junk, just has to know.
You and LKDog are obsessed with them.
You literally believed BrooksTaylorFan, who is a bigger idiot than Reese Woodcock, and actually thought he knew what he was talking about.
Hilarious that BTF now is “logging off” for a few days.
Again, stop believing these idiots.
If anyone came to this board, I had it right from day 1
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is right. Can’t believe Sparky and LKDog fell for these geeks.
I’m the only insider on the internet. And that’s a fact.
Nobody is falling for anything NIT Fcktard.
We are following basketball recruiting. You know, like normal human beings. Not like paranoid delusional personality disordered social Fcktards like you.
Tell us about the NIT again.
We never heard the results.
We are still waiting you fucking idiot.
And let's make sure everyone knows your predictions for this year you sad fuck.
8th place in BT.
No post season tourney of any kind.
Record low attendance.
And as far as being obsessed with Loyalty, I see they just banned you again.
What a total sad fuck. You so badly want attention. You are like a 2 year old.
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Nobody is falling for anything NIT Fcktard.
We are following basketball recruiting. You know, like normal human beings. Not like paranoid delusional personality disordered social Fcktards like you.
Tell us about the NIT again.
We never heard the results.
We are still waiting you fucking idiot.
And let's make sure everyone knows your predictions for this year you sad fuck.
8th place in BT.
No post season tourney of any kind.
Record low attendance.
They’ll finish below 8th. 8th would be a big accomplishment for this group.
This will be the least talented team Underwood has ever coached here. Don’t forget the guy lost 21 games with Ayo Donsunmu and Trent Frazier as his back court.
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You and LKDog are obsessed with them.
You literally believed BrooksTaylorFan, who is a bigger idiot than Reese Woodcock, and actually thought he knew what he was talking about.
Hilarious that BTF now is “logging off” for a few days.
Again, stop believing these idiots.
If anyone came to this board, I had it right from day 1
I have literally not been to or read a post from Illinois Loyalty in at least 5 years unless someone here copies and pastes it, so funny to think you believe I get information from them.
The obsession with it is odd to me.
I know who BrooksTaylorFan is, vaguely, again because of posts here.
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They’ll finish below 8th. 8th would be a big accomplishment for this group.
This will be the least talented team Underwood has ever coached here. Don’t forget the guy lost 21 games with Ayo Donsunmu and Trent Frazier as his back court.
Okay, so top-7 is a lock. Keep going.
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They’ll finish below 8th. 8th would be a big accomplishment for this group.
This will be the least talented team Underwood has ever coached here. Don’t forget the guy lost 21 games with Ayo Donsunmu and Trent Frazier as his back court.
Lunardi currently has them as Last 4 In.
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Darn, I'll still be south Ft Meyer until June 2 then back to Miami.
🤞Finals games happening vs Lakers (pipe dream I know)
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They’ll finish below 8th. 8th would be a big accomplishment for this group.
This will be the least talented team Underwood has ever coached here. Don’t forget the guy lost 21 games with Ayo Donsunmu and Trent Frazier as his back court.
We have your annual once again completely delusional and wrong predictions noted.
We will adjust yours to finishing below 8th.
Got it.
Once again you will be the Village Idiot.
But I guess everyone has a niche in life.
Glad you found yours.
So what happened in the NIT?
Please please tell us Squeaky Scoreboard Fcktard.
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Darn, I'll still be south Ft Meyer until June 2 then back to Miami.
🤞Finals games happening vs Lakers (pipe dream I know)
you realize Lakers are eliminated right?
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you realize Lakers are eliminated right?
Yes but I can still want it
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Yes but I can still want it
how about you want something else instead...........
ME
(https://i.gifer.com/GIZw.gif)
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Hey Karen I’m flying to Florida the first week of June. I’m quite a ways north from you but I’ll be in the Vero Beach area during that time.
Lol
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Not sure I've ever seen someone so obsessed with what the Illinois Loyalty guys say than jasn.
He's like Judy and somebody's junk, just has to know.
Lol
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I read Sparky’s 4 poster scout board, and Peoriaman said just last week that there was a 90% chance RayJ was coming.
Now he says Illinois lost him.
Again, all these people do is cling to the most optimistic scenarios regardless of the chances with no info, then when it doesn’t happen they claim recruiting is fluid.
Rather than just be honest from the get go.
I know the message of “illinois sucks, Underwood has constant turnover, why would anyone come here” is a message not many people want to here, but it’s the truth. And once you go from that viewpoint, it’s easy to see where these recruitments will go.
There’s better programs after Dennis.
Shannon is a top 40 pick.
Hawkins reading his quotes has always wanted to get to the NBA fast and was disappointed in not getting some of the transfers he wanted IL to get.
Put it all together and IL gets none of these guys back. IL is only attractive for guys looking for expanded roles or a jump in competition if they have no better options. That doesn’t fit any of these guys.
Remember Michigan was Shannon’s first choice.
And sure IL can recruit some me first Mayer types but they suck.
It’s a mediocre program. That’s just it. And even the best players that come here don’t stay very long (Epps, Podz, Miller).
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Darn, I'll still be south Ft Meyer until June 2 then back to Miami.
🤞Finals games happening vs Lakers (pipe dream I know)
Jasn is the LeBron James of this board. If that is any consolation
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Let’s be honest here. Losing a midmajor kid from Oswego would be a bad look.
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how about you want something else instead...........
ME
(https://i.gifer.com/GIZw.gif)
Way to be subtle, Jasn!
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how about you want something else instead...........
ME
(https://i.gifer.com/GIZw.gif)
Jesus. I bet you are a big hit with the ladies. Lol.
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Let’s be honest here. Losing a midmajor kid from Oswego would be a bad look.
What if we did not want him anyways?
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Let’s be honest here. Losing a midmajor kid from Oswego would be a bad look.
..why?
I mean it sucks, but I don't think it's any different than losing a kid we wanted from any level from anywhere.
The "he's from Illinois" stuff is for fans, players typically are less beholden to 'close to home' than people like you assume they are.
Sucks to lose a kid we wanted, full stop though.
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Yes but I can still want it
What if we did a Dating Game thread where you ask Judge Judy, Jasn, and I am going to throw in single man Tempo, questions, you get their responses, then you decide who you want to go out with on an all expenses paid date in Miami? We would do a GoFundMe for the date, but I am sure Dom will contribute by driving you around for free in his Uber for the night.
What do you say?
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..why?
I mean it sucks, but I don't think it's any different than losing a kid we wanted from any level from anywhere.
Losing a mid-major transfer kid from Oswego to Utah, allegedly, is not a bad look? C'mon.
Even with your edit losing a kid to Utah is not good. But Underachiever is so great!
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Losing a mid-major transfer kid from Oswego to Utah, allegedly, is not a bad look? C'mon.
No more than if he was a kid we'd gone all in on from Tulsa who played at Michigan State, no.
Losing a kid you wanted and put a lot of resources in sucks no matter where he's from.
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Losing a mid-major transfer kid from Oswego to Utah, allegedly, is not a bad look? C'mon.
Even with your edit losing a kid to Utah is not good. But Underachiever is so great!
Your edit was the typical meathead stupidity.
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They’ll finish below 8th. 8th would be a big accomplishment for this group.
This will be the least talented team Underwood has ever coached here. Don’t forget the guy lost 21 games with Ayo Donsunmu and Trent Frazier as his back court.
Still can't believe you really think Mazzulla is going to be their next coach
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No more than if he was a kid we'd gone all in on from Tulsa who played at Michigan State, no.
Losing a kid you wanted and put a lot of resources in sucks no matter where he's from.
Seriously? He is, allegedly, picking Utah over Illinois.
You have sat here and lauded Underachiever for winning B1G Titles and he cannot out-recruit Utah? Is Rick Majerus still coaching there?
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Let’s be honest here. Losing a midmajor kid from Oswego would be a bad look.
No question, and it sounds like they threw the kitchen sink at him, but it is a new world now. The players in demand are essentially pro free agents out shopping with agents.
I don't think Plan B Yuri who some like better is a given either.
My friends at SLU claim he has been shopping to highest bidder also.
We will end up with somebody and a competitive team in the end, but it is not pretty and this is the new norm.
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Seriously? He is, allegedly, picking Utah over Illinois.
You have sat here and lauded Underachiever for winning B1G Titles and he cannot out-recruit Utah? Is Rick Majerus still coaching there?
He's out-recruited Utah easily, though. You're talking about one kid.
yeah, it sucks to lose a kid you want. Has happened to every single coach ever, too.
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Your edit was the typical meathead stupidity.
You have completely lost it, dude. The All Great Underachiever (top 10 paid HC) appears to have gotten smoked, despite all the NIL $$$, by Utah. Get serious, Spark.
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You have completely lost it, dude. The All Great Underachiever (top 10 paid HC) appears to have gotten smoked, despite all the NIL $$$, by Utah. Get serious, Spark.
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I mean, nobody's surprised you're being a moron about this. It's What You Do.
It sucks to lose a kid we want. It also happens. Has happened before, will happen again. Feel free to be a dumbass about it, but I'm not going to.
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He's out-recruited Utah easily, though. You're talking about one kid.
yeah, it sucks to lose a kid you want. Has happened to every single coach ever, too.
When has Underachiever gone head-to-head with Utah?
The question is, why did he choose Utah over Illinois? The answer would be interesting.
Maybe he does not want to play for a guy dressed by Warehouse Club who yells at kids who cannot win the 2d game in The Tourney but can win B1G Titles? (RIP ChicagoFan.)
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I mean, nobody's surprised you're being a moron about this. It's What You Do.
It sucks to lose a kid we want. It also happens. Has happened before, will happen again. Feel free to be a dumbass about it, but I'm not going to.
You look ridiculous here.
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When has Underachiever gone head-to-head with Utah?
The question is, why did he choose Utah over Illinois? The answer would be interesting.
Maybe he does not want to play for a guy dressed by Warehouse Club who yells at kids who cannot win the 2d game in The Tourney but can win B1G Titles? (RIP ChicagoFan.)
Thought we were talking about out-recruiting them? He's recruited better than the Utah coach and it isn't really close.
Sounds like the most commonly thought answer is money, but who knows? I don't know and neither do you, it's pretty stupid to just guess and pretend your guess is true. We have no idea why, or to be honest even 'if' at this point. This is coming from the exact same people that this board has been mocking as fake insiders for years, no?
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No question, and it sounds like they threw the kitchen sink at him, but it is a new world now. The players in demand are essentially pro free agents out shopping with agents.
I don't think Plan B Yuri who some like better is a given either.
My friends at SLU claim he has been shopping to highest bidder also.
We will end up with somebody and a competitive team in the end, but it is not pretty and this is the new norm.
Yep.
Apparently need a head coach that people want to get really well paid to play for.
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You look ridiculous here.
Nah, I look like an adult.
You're welcome to lose your shit every time we lose a kid to another school, it's definitely going to happen again. Because it happens to every single coach in the country.
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Yep.
Apparently need a head coach that people want to get really well paid to play for.
Which, again, is every coach in the country.
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Still can't believe you really think Mazzulla is going to be their next coach
Huh? I never said that. I have no clue who will be IL next coach.
I do think Mazulla has had an insane coaching trajectory.
Going from D2 to Celtics head coach in 5 years is remarkable.
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Thought we were talking about out-recruiting them? He's recruited better than the Utah coach and it isn't really close.
Sounds like the most commonly thought answer is money, but who knows? I don't know and neither do you, it's pretty stupid to just guess and pretend your guess is true. We have no idea why, or to be honest even 'if' at this point. This is coming from the exact same people that this board has been mocking as fake insiders for years, no?
Isn't the word that Illinois has stupid money to throw at kids?
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Isn't the word that Illinois has stupid money to throw at kids?
They seem like they're doing alright.
They're also recruiting at least three kids to come/stay here right now.
Who knows? Maybe the price was too high for how good we thought he was? Maybe we literally couldn't match it? Maybe we wanted to save money for Coleman and Shannon? Maybe he hates Underwood? Who knows? We can speculate all day but nobody knows the answer.
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Nah, I look like an adult.
You're welcome to lose your shit every time we lose a kid to another school, it's definitely going to happen again. Because it happens to every single coach in the country.
I don't really give a shit if he comes here or not. I'll root for whoever wears the Orange and Blue. But I find your continual defense of Underachiever to be ridiculous.
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Still can't believe you really think Mazzulla is going to be their next coach
Lol.
Squeaky NIT Fcktard Scoreboard is never wrong.
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They seem like they're doing alright.
They're also recruiting at least three kids to come/stay here right now.
Who knows? Maybe the price was too high for how good we thought he was? Maybe we literally couldn't match it? Maybe we wanted to save money for Coleman and Shannon? Maybe he hates Underwood? Who knows? We can speculate all day but nobody knows the answer.
You really think we could not match Utah?
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Which, again, is every coach in the country.
No it’s not.
Now were back to the age old excuse for everytime Illinois loses a recruit:
“The other school paid him more”.
Fuck off.
Underwood is a horrible boss.
The evidence is in his employee turnover.
The company he works for (Illinois) is mediocre.
And there’s plenty of reasons to not ever come to Illinois.
Good bosses retain their workforce.
Bad ones drive them off
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I don't really give a shit if he comes here or not. I'll root for whoever wears the Orange and Blue. But I find your continual defense of Underachiever to be ridiculous.
It's not a defense of Underwood at all really - have said over and over, it fucking sucks to lose a kid you've been spending a lot of time and resources on.
It's a pushback on the silly fan-driven notion that it's an especially 'bad look' because Ray J is a mid-major player who went to HS a few hours away from our campus. That's video game thinking, oh he's from nearby so that factors into the equation this much, etc. In reality nobody knows - maybe he hates Illinois and it's only because he loves Underwood that he considered coming back? Maybe he loves Illinois and it's only because he hates Underwood that he isn't coming? Maybe his parents still live there, or maybe they live in Salt Lake City. Who fuckin' knows man?
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No more than if he was a kid we'd gone all in on from Tulsa who played at Michigan State, no.
Losing a kid you wanted and put a lot of resources in sucks no matter where he's from.
Ooook
You said you had insider info he was leaving nba to come coach
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No it’s not.
Now were back to the age old excuse for everytime Illinois loses a recruit:
“The other school paid him more”.
Fuck off.
Underwood is a horrible boss.
The evidence is in his employee turnover.
The company he works for (Illinois) is mediocre.
And there’s plenty of reasons to not ever come to Illinois.
Good bosses retain their workforce.
Bad ones drive them off
There were 4 transfers per college basketball program last offseason. That's a hell of a lot of bad bosses - like, almost every one of them.
I have no idea if they paid more. Not a clue, and neither do you. There are at least a million reasons he could have for not coming to Illinois.
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Ooook
You said you had insider info he was leaving nba to come coach
Who the fuck are you?
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It's not a defense of Underwood at all really - have said over and over, it fucking sucks to lose a kid you've been spending a lot of time and resources on.
It's a pushback on the silly fan-driven notion that it's an especially 'bad look' because Ray J is a mid-major player who went to HS a few hours away from our campus. That's video game thinking, oh he's from nearby so that factors into the equation this much, etc. In reality nobody knows - maybe he hates Illinois and it's only because he loves Underwood that he considered coming back? Maybe he loves Illinois and it's only because he hates Underwood that he isn't coming? Who fuckin' knows man?
Either way, as Tempo said, it looks bad as they allegedly put a lot of resources in this mid-major guy only to lose out to Utah.
This is not Duke losing a guy to NC or KY.
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You really think we could not match Utah?
Since you've read all my posts, you know that I have no idea and wouldn't claim to know.
We're trying to get at least three guys to come back here on the strength of NIL offers right now - maybe that played into it? Maybe it didn't? Maybe we couldn't match, maybe we didn't want to? Who fuckin' knows?
You guys are going to assume the worst because you've let Truth of all people dictate the narrative of Illinois basketball here, but nobody here has any idea why, or even if, this is happening at this point.
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Who the fuck are you?
Now you are going to be AngrySpark with Karen?
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Ooook
You said you had insider info he was leaving nba to come coach
You sound drunk at your pool. I never talk sports to you so just go back in the water.
You aren’t making any sense.
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Jesus. I bet you are a big hit with the ladies. Lol.
if you can't have laughs on a forum, what's the point
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Since you've read all my posts, you know that I have no idea and wouldn't claim to know.
We're trying to get at least three guys to come back here on the strength of NIL offers right now - maybe that played into it? Maybe it didn't? Maybe we couldn't match, maybe we didn't want to? Who fuckin' knows?
You guys are going to assume the worst because you've let Truth of all people dictate the narrative of Illinois basketball here, but nobody here has any idea why, or even if, this is happening at this point.
It is easy to assume the worst when you lose out on a mid-major transfer this late to Utah. It is not like he is going to MSU, KY, Duke, etc....
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To be fair to Truth here, Mazzula's likely to be on the market soon.
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if you can't have laughs on a forum, what's the point
Jasn, don't you know that the Internet is serious business? Just ask Spark. Wait, you do not need to ask him. He will let you know.
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Indy turning on Undy
I'll just say this … Missing on RayJ and not landing a Yuri type player as a plan B … The seat would be quite warm …
We’re investing a crap ton of money and have had ZERO post season success … There’s no way around that …
If you’re a top 10 paid coach … You better find the 2nd weekend more often than 0/6 …
Sean Miller took a group of guys that Travis Steele couldn’t make the tournament with in 4 years … Added a kid from UTEP and went to the 2nd weekend …
Brad has had plenty of time … He’s got a ton of money to recruit with … It’s time to see post season results in many boosters eyes and Josh’s eyes …
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It is easy to assume the worst when you lose out on a mid-major transfer this late to Utah. It is not like he is going to MSU, KY, Duke, etc....
Nah, some people can be reasonable.
You guys just assume the worst every time, because again, you've let Truth dictate how you think about Illinois basketball.
If we'd lost him to one of those schools you guys would be saying the same stupid shit. "It's a bad look to lose a mid major kid from Oswego to have him move a thousand miles away to Durham". And if we got him, you'd mock him for being a mid-major kid from Oswego.
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To be fair to Truth here, Mazzula's likely to be on the market soon.
100%
He's lucky it didn't happen mid game
But not stepping down from NBA
That's why I had no idea what Dom was talking about him being the next coach
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Indy turning on Undy
I'll just say this … Missing on RayJ and not landing a Yuri type player as a plan B … The seat would be quite warm …
We’re investing a crap ton of money and have had ZERO post season success … There’s no way around that …
If you’re a top 10 paid coach … You better find the 2nd weekend more often than 0/6 …
Sean Miller took a group of guys that Travis Steele couldn’t make the tournament with in 4 years … Added a kid from UTEP and went to the 2nd weekend …
Brad has had plenty of time … He’s got a ton of money to recruit with … It’s time to see post season results in many boosters eyes and Josh’s eyes …
Would just be the most perfectly Illinois move.
Hire a guy that finally brings us back, turn on him pretty much as soon as he does, and then wonder why we're mediocre again for the next two coaches.
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Jasn, don't you know that the Internet is serious business? Just ask Spark. Wait, you do not need to ask him. He will let you know.
Your posts make me laugh pretty consistently, actually.
Like you know in Seinfeld when Costanza just can't stop, he takes his maybe-reasonable point to extreme depths with no shame whatsoever? It's funny right?
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Didn't Brad , against Arkansas, say the players ignored the first 3 plays he called out and ran what they wanted to?
How is that NOT a warning signal
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Indy turning on Undy
I'll just say this … Missing on RayJ and not landing a Yuri type player as a plan B … The seat would be quite warm …
We’re investing a crap ton of money and have had ZERO post season success … There’s no way around that …
If you’re a top 10 paid coach … You better find the 2nd weekend more often than 0/6 …
Sean Miller took a group of guys that Travis Steele couldn’t make the tournament with in 4 years … Added a kid from UTEP and went to the 2nd weekend …
Brad has had plenty of time … He’s got a ton of money to recruit with … It’s time to see post season results in many boosters eyes and Josh’s eyes …
Can't say I disagree with the comments regarding The Tourney.
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I remember when the Loyalty idiots were claiming Sean Miller would come to IL.
He would be a massive upgrade. But that is likely never happening.
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Would just be the most perfectly Illinois move.
Hire a guy that finally brings us back, turn on him pretty much as soon as he does, and then wonder why we're mediocre again for the next two coaches.
brings us back?
to what?
Hey everyone, we are a team that can't get past the 1st weekend! whoohooo
great we can get to the tourney now, BUT I WANT MORE
also we are on a downhill sloap
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100%
He's lucky it didn't happen mid game
But not stepping down from NBA
That's why I had no idea what Dom was talking about him being the next coach
I’ve literally never typed the word “Mazzula” on this website.
First you appear to think the Nuggets are gonna be disqualified from the playoffs and the Lakers will still be in the finals, then this Mazzula thing.
You clearly got too much sun today
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Nah, some people can be reasonable.
You guys just assume the worst every time, because again, you've let Truth dictate how you think about Illinois basketball.
If we'd lost him to one of those schools you guys would be saying the same stupid shit. "It's a bad look to lose a mid major kid from Oswego to have him move a thousand miles away to Durham". And if we got him, you'd mock him for being a mid-major kid from Oswego.
Or blind.
I do not care if he is from Oswego. I have no clue if he is any good at all. Illinois losing a transfer kid it allegedly really wanted to Utah is not a good look.
But you will keep carrying on with your B1G Regular Season Banner love.
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To be fair to Truth here, Mazzula's likely to be on the market soon.
Underwood is not going anywhere soon unless he misses tourney the next two years, and/or has first round exits both years.
Or he might take his money and run because he doesn't want to or can't play the new recruiting game.
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Your posts make me laugh pretty consistently, actually.
Like you know in Seinfeld when Costanza just can't stop, he takes his maybe-reasonable point to extreme depths with no shame whatsoever? It's funny right?
Been a long time since I watched Seinfeld. Sorry.
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brings us back?
to what?
Hey everyone, we are a team that can't get past the 1st weekend! whoohooo
great we can get to the tourney now, BUT I WANT MORE
also we are on a downhill sloap
It's amazing how quickly we forget.
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Or blind.
I do not care if he is from Oswego. I have no clue if he is any good at all. Illinois losing a transfer kid it, allegedly really wanted, to Utah is not a good look.
But you will keep carrying on with your B1G Regular Season Banner love.
It's never a good look when a coach loses a kid they really wanted and spent lots of time and resources on, I'll agree with that.
As to where they went to HS four years ago and where they committed, those things really play into it except in the minds of fans. Or at least they never play in the same way twice, and there's no way for us to know how they weighed what factors.
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Underwood is not going anywhere soon unless he misses tourney the next two years, and/or has first round exits both years.
Or he might take his money and run because he doesn't want to or can't play the new recruiting game.
Why should he leave when he is able to keep extorting money from Guenther, Jr.?
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It's never a good look when a coach loses a kid they really wanted and spent lots of time and resources on, I'll agree with that.
So the only exception you took with Tempo's post was his mention of Oswego?
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Been a long time since I watched Seinfeld. Sorry.
What?!
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It's amazing how quickly we forget.
Just because Illinois hired complete idiots before Underachiever does not make Underachiever worthy of being a top 10 paid coach.
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What?!
I know it is still on all the time, but I watched it in the 90s, or whenever it was on.
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So the only exception you took with Tempo's post was his mention of Oswego?
I mean, was I unclear? LOL.
Yeah, the idea that it's a "bad look" to lose a "mid-major kid from Oswego" - as opposed to any other kid we really wanted and spent a ton of time on - is meathead fan shit.
Which, again, you already know because you read my posts right? I was pretty damn clear in the very first reply.
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Just because Illinois hired complete idiots before Underachiever does not make Underachiever worthy of being a top 10 paid coach.
Did you enjoy those years? I did not, I prefer hanging banners and winning conference titles and winning a bunch of games, even if we ultimately underperform in the tournament. That, to me, sure beats not even playing in it.
You're notably underselling the likelihood of going back to a situation like that.
Could we hire somebody better than Underwood? Sure, we could. It's just way more likely that we hire someone worse.
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I mean, was I unclear? LOL.
Yeah, the idea that it's a "bad look" to lose a "mid-major kid from Oswego" - as opposed to any other kid we really wanted and spent a ton of time on - is meathead fan shit.
Which, again, you already know because you read my posts right? I was pretty damn clear in the very first reply.
So, it was only the Oswego part you took exception to. The part where Illinois lost a kid to Utah is irrelevant?
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I know it is still on all the time, but I watched it in the 90s, or whenever it was on.
Man, you should do that. Seems up your alley, maybe.
Curb too.
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So, it was only the Oswego part you took exception to. The part where Illinois lost a kid to Utah is irrelevant?
Tempo didn't say anything about Utah, but no, I don't care that it's Utah specifically.
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Why should he leave when he is able to keep extorting money from Guenther, Jr.?
Agree he is overpaid.
I think he is pretty much just a guy.
Not bad, not good. Kind of an old school prick.
Some kids clearly do not like it.
Others do.
Did great job with the COVID year team.
Can't argue with his success overall in getting Illinois back in the mix, but the NCAA tourney prep and game planning has been subpar and it is a theme in his career.
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{1} Did you enjoy those years? I did not, I prefer hanging banners and winning conference titles and winning a bunch of games, even if we ultimately underperform in the tournament. That, to me, sure beats not even playing in it.
{2}You're notably underselling the likelihood of going back to a situation like that.
{3} Could we hire somebody better than Underwood? Sure, we could. It's just way more likely that we hire someone worse.
1. Of course not. Yes, being in The Tourney is better than not being in it. But, Illinois should more often than not be in The Tourney and actually get to the S16, at a minimum.
2. I do not think so. There are plenty of competent coaches out there.
3. Of course we could. Guenther Jr already did hire someone worse once. That is is way more likely to hire someone worse is an indictment by you of Guenther Jr.
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Tempo didn't say anything about Utah, but no, I don't care that it's Utah specifically.
Fair enough. I care more about the Utah part myself.
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Agree he is overpaid.
I think he is pretty much just a guy.
Not bad, not good. Kind of an old school prick.
Some kids clearly do not like it.
Others do.
Did great job with the COVID year team.
Can't argue with his success overall in getting Illinois back in the mix, but the NCAA tourney prep and game planning has been subpar and it is a theme in his career.
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Agree except I can argue with the overall success part because of The Tourney results (or lack thereof).
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What if we did a Dating Game thread where you ask Judge Judy, Jasn, and I am going to throw in single man Tempo, questions, you get their responses, then you decide who you want to go out with on an all expenses paid date in Miami? We would do a GoFundMe for the date, but I am sure Dom will contribute by driving you around for free in his Uber for the night.
What do you say?
So, that Karen has not said "No" means this is a go?
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Indy turning on Undy
I'll just say this … Missing on RayJ and not landing a Yuri type player as a plan B … The seat would be quite warm …
We’re investing a crap ton of money and have had ZERO post season success … There’s no way around that …
If you’re a top 10 paid coach … You better find the 2nd weekend more often than 0/6 …
Sean Miller took a group of guys that Travis Steele couldn’t make the tournament with in 4 years … Added a kid from UTEP and went to the 2nd weekend …
Brad has had plenty of time … He’s got a ton of money to recruit with … It’s time to see post season results in many boosters eyes and Josh’s eyes …
Lol. Very unLoyalty like for one of the supposed insiders to criticize staff.
He also thinks we are fucked unless we get 2/3 of a legit PG, TSJ, CH.
Another insider and him having a marital spat.
Let's see what the roster looks like next week.
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Agree he is overpaid.
I think he is pretty much just a guy.
Not bad, not good. Kind of an old school prick.
Some kids clearly do not like it.
Others do.
Did great job with the COVID year team.
Can't argue with his success overall in getting Illinois back in the mix, but the NCAA tourney prep and game planning has been subpar and it is a theme in his career.
It's interesting you say that. I don't totally disagree that poor tournament prep has been a theme here - but I think there's maybe some recency and fandom biases at play here too. He's -really- blown it in the tournament once, halfway blown it in the tournament .. twice, I'll say? - the last three seasons.
Before that he'd had quite a bit of relative tournament success - won games at SFA as a 12-seed and a 14-seed. He obviously prepped those teams well enough to pull off upsets.
I think there could be something to the notion that he's better at winning with an underdog type team - some guys are like that I think. Weber was kind of that way, he was good beating more talented and athletic teams with discipline and skill guys, but struggled to 'step up' when he had to recruit and win with the more talented, athletic types. He also was obviously just a dweeb which doesn't necessarily resonate with the McDonald's All American, but might with some underdog type kids.
I think it's possible Underwood is that. I also think it's possible he'll struggle to get true 'program buy in' in the portal era - I think he's recruited pretty well in the portal, Plummer was decent, Shannon is good. But recruiting well for one or two year guys is different than building a program, culture, etc. I think he got that from the Ayo/Kofi group but that group was also kind of an underdog story to some degree - we had been mediocre for so long. I don't think we know for sure whether either of those things are true yet.
One thing that sucks is that by pushing back on some of the particularly silly Underwood hate here, I'm painted as someone who just loves him and would do anything to defend him. I'm not that, at all. I want Illinois basketball to be nationally competitive, a consistent top college basketball program, with a chance to win a national title. That's my only dog in the fight, period. I just think some of you here have already "decided" on Underwood, and I think frankly the way you paint him simply doesn't match the results so far. A fan from another fanbase would probably look at our last 10 years and think some of the shit that gets said here is absolutely fucking nuts.
If a year from now Underwood just totally failed, we had a year worse than last year, Truth's right - and we fire him? I'll be totally fine with that. If we make the second round and lose to a tough team again and we fire him, that's different IMO. The only way to win in the tournament is to be in the tournament. There are any number of examples of great coaches who failed a few times in the tournament before they succeeded - and also examples of coaches who had some initial success and then fizzled off. I think it's too early to know on Underwood, but I think our fanbase consistently underestimates the likelihood of doing what Underwood has done here so far - and overestimates the likelihood that we'd be able to get someone that's clearly better.
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Sorry for the novel there, jesus christ.
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Sorry for the novel there, jesus christ.
LOL. I read the whole thing and thought "Damn, no way Tempo is reading all of this."
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Fair enough. I care more about the Utah part myself.
Why?
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Anybody else think it's kind of funny that this whole thread is dedicated to how the guys at Loyalty don't know shit but we believe it completely when they say something bad?
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Sorry for the novel there, jesus christ.
It's all good.
I do wonder if the game is passing guys like UW by.
He is a culture coach.
Huge strength when you can pull a group together. The COVID year team was just badass.
He may be very well better suited for underdog out to proven the world wrong types as you note. The modern players have their ass kissed for years in AAU.
We will see. I am actually disappointed in the lack of impact by Frazier on the team culture. Another old school toughness guy.
Let's see how this roster plays out and the season works out.
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Anybody else think it's kind of funny that this whole thread is dedicated to how the guys at Loyalty don't know shit but we believe it completely when they say something bad?
They said RayJ was a lock.
They said TSJ was announcing last weekend a return.
The only thing that’s funny is you believed these idiots.
See ya. Don’t come back
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Anybody else think it's kind of funny that this whole thread is dedicated to how the guys at Loyalty don't know shit but we believe it completely when they say something bad?
They have some value and the info and forum is entertaining at times. More basketball talk than here.
Most people can think for themselves in the end.
UW has his hands full like any coach these days.
Hope it works out for the better in next two years.
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Again, haven't looked at Loyalty in years.
Peoriaman does though, that's where this came from.
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Why?
Illinois should generally not lose guys to Utah. Means we have an issue.
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Illinois should generally not lose guys to Utah. Means we have an issue.
But why?
Gotta give me more than "because".
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The "he's from Illinois" stuff is for fans, players typically are less beholden to 'close to home' than people like you assume they are.
Yeah, I’m not sure that’s true. Especially for kids that aren’t considered future NBAers.
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"In the backcourt is back starting point guard Rollie Worster (8.7 ppg and 5.0 apg)"
"The problem is that Utah may feel deep down inside that they won’t land him. The Utes landed Deivon Smith, who averaged 8.0 ppg and 3.7 apg at Georgia Tech. It’s not that he’s an upgrade over the Toledo transfer but rather an interesting time to add another backcourt player."
https://bustingbrackets.com/2023/05/20/ncaa-basketball-analyzing-4-contenders-toledo-transfer-rayj-dennis/2/
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Even if Rayj didn’t grow up bleeding orange and blue, I’m sure there’s people inside his bubble that would be encouraging him to play for the state school.
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Yeah, I’m not sure that’s true. Especially for kids that aren’t considered future NBAers.
Of course you're not.
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Even if Rayj didn’t grow up bleeding orange and blue, I’m sure there’s people inside his bubble that would be encouraging him to play for the state school.
How the fuck would any of us know?
Maybe his parents are salty with Underwood for not recruiting him in HS?
Why just assume something you have literally no idea about?
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Of course you're not.
So you think playing for Illinois would have no influence on a not that highly rated Illinois kid? If so, this is almost as bad as your ASU is equal to Illinois take.
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So you think playing for Illinois would have no influence on a not that highly rated Illinois kid? If so, this is almost as bad as your ASU is equal to Illinois take.
I don't claim to know anything about how Ray J or his family or circle thinks about Illinois basketball, our coaching staff, or frankly anything else - no.
It's hilarious you still think you just know.
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How the fuck would any of us know?
Maybe his parents are salty with Underwood for not recruiting him in HS?
Why just assume something you have literally no idea about?
It’s easy to be open-minded when your default setting is to constantly give the benefit of the doubt, even in situations where reason and logically applied.
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It’s easy to be open-minded when your default setting is to constantly give the benefit of the doubt, even in situations where reason and logically applied.
You're literally making a thing up and ascribing it to a specific person with no knowledge of them personally at all. Projecting your own views onto someone you've never met.
I'll err on the side of not doing that, yeah.
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It’s not exactly apples to apples, but this reminds me of the Jalen Carter debate. “OMG the Bears were geniuses for getting a pick for a guy they didn’t want!”
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Yeah, I mean it already reminds me of every other argument with you, where you make up an argument you wish I'd made and argue against it.
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I love that you called what you're doing here "reason and logic".
That couldn't more perfectly encapsulate you to me. Beautiful.
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“Maybe his parents are salty” sounds like something out of the random excuse generator.
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I love that you called what you're doing here "reason and logic".
That couldn't more perfectly encapsulate you to me. Beautiful.
You’re telling me he has zero pull to the U of I, be it through fandom, family or friends? Possible, but doubtful.
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“Maybe his parents are salty” sounds like something out of the random excuse generator.
You're saying "Maybe there are people in his circle that really want him to go to Illinois."
Mine was an example, showing that we simply do not know. We can pretend we do, we can assume that RayJ and his family think like us - that's what you're doing - but the truth is, we have no clue. We don't even know if this happened yet, we're taking the word of the very board this thread is meant to mock for not knowing what they're talking about. Maybe he's using Utah as a bargaining chip and we'll pay up - who fuckin' knows man?
Are you saying it's unthinkable that the parents of an Illinois kid who was deemed not good enough to get a scholarship to Illinois might struggle to warm back up to the coach that overlooked him? Why is that so far-fetched?
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You’re telling me he has zero pull to the U of I, be it through fandom, family or friends? Possible, but doubtful.
I'm admitting that I have literally no way of knowing that whatsoever.
You?
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I think it’s highly more logical to assume he has either rooted for Illinois, or has family and friends that do than to just throw “Maybe his parents are salty” statements out there. But that’s me.
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I'm admitting that I have literally no way of knowing that whatsoever.
You?
Of course, I can’t say for sure; but I’d find it pretty unlikely that he feels zero inclination or pull to attend Illinois.
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I think it’s highly more logical to assume he has either rooted for Illinois, or has family and friends that do than to just throw “Maybe his parents are salty” statements. But that’s me.
Yes - as in all situations, the only logical conclusion you can come to is that the person in question thinks just like you, a 45 year old white man.
I'm surprised, honestly, that you think it's so crazy to suggest maybe his parents didn't like that Underwood didn't think their kid was good enough last time. I'm not saying at all I know that's true, but it's certainly well within the realm of possibilities. Pettier shit has affected recruiting.
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Of course, I can’t say for sure; but I’d find it pretty unlikely that he feels zero inclination or pull to attend Illinois.
You admit you have no idea, and just assume he thinks like you.
It's called projection, bud.
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Yes - as in all situations, the only logical conclusion you can come to is that the person in question thinks just like you, a 45 year old white man.
I'm surprised, honestly, that you think it's so crazy to suggest maybe his parents didn't like that Underwood didn't think their kid was good enough last time.
Again, assuming he/his family has some beef with Illinois is a much bigger stretch than to think Illinois might be an attractive destination for an Illinois kid.
Your quest to be objective is being stretched to its logical limits.
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If they had a beef with Illinois, I’m guessing he wouldn’t have considered them from the get-go.
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Again, assuming he/his family has some beef with Illinois is a much bigger stretch than to think Illinois might be an attractive destination for an Illinois kid.
Your quest to be objective is being stretched to its logical limits.
I'm literally not doing that. I am specifically not assuming anything and acknowledging that I have no idea.
I AM surprised you think that's just outside the realm of possibilities though. It's definitely, definitely not. We lost a recruit cuz he fucked the sister of another recruit we did get. The notion that you just know what the factors are in a given recruitment is a pure fantasy.
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If they had a beef with Illinois, I’m guessing he wouldn’t have considered them from the get-go.
I'd suggest a reason for that, but you'd accuse me of assuming it's true because you're a particularly black and white type thinker.
Intelligent people can entertain the possibility of an idea without subscribing to it.
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Yes - as in all situations, the only logical conclusion you can come to is that the person in question thinks just like you, a 45 year old white man.
I'm surprised, honestly, that you think it's so crazy to suggest maybe his parents didn't like that Underwood didn't think their kid was good enough last time. I'm not saying at all I know that's true, but it's certainly well within the realm of possibilities. Pettier shit has affected recruiting.
Nobody good wants to play for Underwood very long:
*Adam Miller- left after 1 season
*Jayden Epps- left after 1 season
*Skyy Clark- left after 1/2 season
*RJ Melendez - left after 2 seasons
*Brandin Podz- left after 1 season
Its a trash JUCO type program Underwood is running. Roster turnover, 1 year guys, no cohesion. It’s just junk.
Again, remove Kofi from the equation. Underwood would be fired 2 years ago. He’s never getting another Kofi an his recruiting is only going to get worse
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I get that it’s not 1981, but suggesting that Illinois doesn’t/shouldn’t have at least some kind of “home town” advantage with most Illinois kids, especially with ones not originally deemed power 5 players is pretty baffling to me. He’s probably getting the 5 star treatment now, but this kid almost certainly would have taken an offer from U of I out of high school. And to suggest he might have some beef with Illinois (then why would he visit?) as an excuse as to why he wouldn’t come here is borderline bizarre.
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I'd suggest a reason for that, but you'd accuse me of assuming it's true because you're a particularly black and white type thinker.
Intelligent people can entertain the possibility of an idea without subscribing to it.
Lol ok
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Random excuse generator:
“Maybe he/his family has a beef with Illinois (even though he visited).”
“There was a tornado that day, maybe that scared him away.”
“Maybe he wants to go to Utah because he’s a snowboarder.”
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we're taking the word of the very board this thread is meant to mock for not knowing what they're talking about.
I’m taking the word of 3 different national sources:
Trilly Donovan says IL is no longer in play.
Derek Piper now says he doesn’t think IL is going to get him.
Utah 247 Premium says IL is no longer in play,
The loyalty board has never known a single thing about anything.
“RayJ is a lock.”
“RayJ visits Utah, Baylor, and Michigan after Illinois but idiots claim Illinois will get last visit”
RayJ never comes back for a visit. And all national guys don’t even think IL is in the discussion anymore.
“TSJ told staff he’s returning. Expect announcement last weekend”
Complete lie.
Again, you want to know what’s going to happen in recruiting. Ask me. I’ll give you the unfilitered truth.
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I get that it’s not 1981, but suggesting that Illinois doesn’t/shouldn’t have at least some kind of “home town” advantage with most Illinois kids, especially with ones not originally deemed power 5 players is pretty baffling to me. He’s probably getting the 5 star treatment now, but this kid almost certainly would have taken an offer from U of I out of high school. And to suggest he might have some beef with Illinois (then why would he visit?) as an excuse as to why he wouldn’t come here is borderline bizarre.
With some of them, they probably do! I'm not discounting the possibility of him being a giant Illini fan that grew up dying to play there and understanding why Underwood didn't want him and then Underwood dropped the ball.
Maybe that happened. I don't know that it did though.
I do think you, who came of age in the 1980's and was a young adult in the 90's/2000's, have a very difference perception of Illinois basketball than a 22 year old would. I think that has to be acknowledged, at least. He might've been a huge Illini fan though. I have no clue.
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Random excuse generator:
“Maybe he/his family has a beef with Illinois (even though he visited).”
“There was a tornado that day, maybe that scared him away.”
“Maybe he wants to go to Utah because he’s a snowboarder.”
It'd be really, really nice - just one time - if you and I could have a real discussion about sports without you simply making up an argument, putting it in quotes, and pretending I said it.
It's really frustrating.
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He can go be a depth piece at Baylor or play off the ball at Utah. Michigan makes more sense, but they.will.suck..
We have a pretty good 10 man roster right now. The problem is it's either the two freshmen or point guard by committee. RayJ would fit nicely even without Shannon and or Hawkins.
Good news, Moretti is plus 15 lbs since he enrolled. He was what? 150?
Dainja shed a bunch. Down to 250.
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I realize your goal is objectivity, which is admirable; but allowing for literally anything (however random) to carry as much weight as logical conclusions such as “Illinois might be an attractive destination for an Illinois kid” is going overboard. Illinois SHOULD have an advantage over schools like Utah for Illinois players. It doesn’t mean that advantage will be capitalized on, of course.
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It'd be really, really nice - just one time - if you and I could have a real discussion about sports without you simply making up an argument, putting it in quotes, and pretending I said it.
It's really frustrating.
I mean, I made up the last two, but you did basically say the first one. Which is just a made up scenario. It’s unlikely he or his family have a beef with Illinois for being passed over out of HS.
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I don't think suggesting that the parents of a kid might struggle to warm up to a coach who passed on him last time he got recruited is really as far fetched or 'random' as you're implying it is.
I also don't know that that happened and never said I did, but I'm done trying to explain that to you.
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I mean, I made up the last two, but you did basically say the first one. Which is just a made up scenario. It’s unlikely he or his family have a beef with Illinois for being passed over out of HS.
How the fuck would you know?!
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There's a dude that posts on the Scout basketball board whose kid is a current junior in HS basketball recruit (I think), a 3* recruit from central Illinois. He pretty clearly doesn't like that Underwood isn't that interested in his kid, there are obvious hard feelings there. He also says his kid doesn't feel a particular affinity to Illinois anyway and he doesn't want to push him there just because he likes it.
An interesting perspective on a similar situation.
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Spark, Illinois is a better "program" than Utah. That being said, a scenario where the kid is salty that he was overlooked the first time around is a consideration.
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Spark, Illinois is a better "program" than Utah. That being said, a scenario where the kid is salty that he was overlooked the first time around is a consideration.
I'll agree Illinois is historically, and especially recently, a better program than Utah - but I bet it's closer than you think.
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I'll agree Illinois is historically, and especially recently, a better program than Utah - but I bet it's closer than you think.
You think so? I understand the damage Groce did. I understand that Underachiever can't win the 2d game of The Tourney. But Utah?
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You think so? I understand the damage Groce did. I understand that Underachiever can't win the 2d game of The Tourney. But Utah?
They've been to the title game semi-recently, in 1998. Have a tournament title from the 1940's.
They have four F4's to our 5 - post 1970, they have one and we have two.
They have 6 E8 appearances, we have 9. Since 1970, they have two and we have four.
They have 16 S16 appearances, we have 11. Since 1970 they have 10, we have 8.
They have 29 tourney appearances, we have 30. Since 1970 they have 21 and we have 26.
Total wins, we just overtook them this year for #14. We have 1878, they have 1875.
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They've been to the title game semi-recently, in 1998. Have a tournament title from the 1940's.
They have four F4's to our 5 - post 1970, they have one and we have two.
They have 6 E8 appearances, we have 9. Since 1970, they have two and we have four.
They have 16 S16 appearances, we have 11. Since 1970 they have 10, we have 8.
They have 29 tourney appearances, we have 30. Since 1970 they have 21 and we have 26.
Total wins, we just overtook them this year for #14. We have 1878, they have 1875.
Those are some interesting stats, but I'm unsure, from a reputational standpoint nationally, that Utah is as well regarded as their numbers suggest they should be.
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I don't think suggesting that the parents of a kid might struggle to warm up to a coach who passed on him last time he got recruited is really as far fetched or 'random' as you're implying it is.
I also don't know that that happened and never said I did, but I'm done trying to explain that to you.
But you threw it out there as a possibility, which is an attempt to deflect that Underwood should be expected to have an inroad to a kid friendly Oswego.
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Those are some interesting stats, but I'm unsure, from a reputational standpoint nationally, that Utah is as well regarded as their numbers suggest they should be.
I thought we were comparing the programs?
You're talking about perception?
Illinois certainly has a better brand than Utah, but that's not really at issue here.
It's also a better program historically, but it's pretty close. Certainly much closer than say, Illinois and a Duke or UNC type program historically.
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Those are some interesting stats, but I'm unsure, from a reputational standpoint nationally, that Utah is as well regarded as their numbers suggest they should be.
They are no ASU, that’s for sure.
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But you threw it out there as a possibility, which is an attempt to deflect that Underwood should be expected to have an inroad to a kid friendly Oswego.
I threw it out there as an example of a possibility to illustrate that you and I simply do not have the information we would need to know. You immediately started claiming that I 'assumed' it happened.
We don't know. Neither of us do. That was the entire point.
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They are no ASU, that’s for sure.
Have you ever stopped to think why you think of Illinois as some obvious just-under-a-blue-blood type program, and Utah as a total afterthought, despite the similarities of their historical resume?
Or is that too, like, world-shattering a thought for you to even entertain?
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They've been to the title game semi-recently, in 1998. Have a tournament title from the 1940's.
I’m about 99.999% sure I recently referenced the Illini of the early aughts and you scoffed that it might has well have been ancient history. Paraphrasing.
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Have you ever stopped to think why you think of Illinois as some obvious just-under-a-blue-blood type program, and Utah as a total afterthought, despite the similarities of their historical resume?
Or is that too, like, world-shattering a thought for you to even entertain?
Utah is a good program. Better than most. They don’t play near Chicago in the Big Ten.
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I’m about 99.999% sure I recently referenced the Illini of the early aughts and you scoffed that it might has well have been ancient history. Paraphrasing.
Well if it is, then Utah's is. They were around the same time. Again, that was the point.
My guess is RayJ would laugh if you asked him if he might commit to Utah because they went to the title game with Andre Miller. He'd probably ask who the fuck Andre Miller is.
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Utah is a good program. Better than most. They don’t play near Chicago in the Big Ten.
No, they play in the center of the southwest in the Pac-12.
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Well if it is, then Utah's is. They were around the same time. Again, that was the point.
My guess is RayJ would laugh if you asked him if he might commit to Utah because they went to the title game with Andre Miller. He'd probably ask who the fuck Andre Miller is.
I think when you grew up in a state that produced a Dee Brown, and probably had parents or people you are close with root for that team; you’re likely to feel a deeper connection. It doesn’t mean that connection definitely exists. Just the likelihood of a connection to Illinois basketball as opposed to Utah for a kid like Rayj.
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Now if a kid grew up in Salt Lake City, he’d be more likely to identify himself in at least some ways to Utah Basketball.
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RayJ Dennis was like, 4 when Dee Brown played at Illinois. And he's 4 years older than the HS kids we're recruiting.
You have to see, at least, that this "he HAD to have someone who loved that team around him" is you projecting onto him right? He very well might've; he very well may have parents that don't care about Illinois at all. We just have no clue.
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Spark claims Illinois is nationally relevant with Underwood yet can’t beat out Utah for a mid major PG that went to HS in state.
Again, looking from afar the Illini program is complete chaotic JUCO garbage. Random rotating roster of guys thrown together with no thought.
Remember how bad Illinois was at shooting last year. Who exactly is going to shoot better this year than last?
This is a team that is going to be horrific offensively, horrific defensively, slow, unathletic and just plain bad.
This is Sergio McClain at PG level bad with no hope in sight for the future. Honestly they should make Rodgers the PG just for shits and giggles
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Now if a kid grew up in Salt Lake City, he’d be more likely to identify himself in at least some ways to Utah Basketball.
Probably.
But it'd be really dumb to take a random basketball recruit from 2 hours away from SLC and just assume he grew up a big Utah basketball fan.
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No, they play in the center of the southwest in the Pac-12.
Sure, but Rayj was probably in junior high when Utah joined the Pac-12. Utah is a very respectable program, but they don’t have the scope of Illinois. Definitely not historically.
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Sure, but Rayj was probably in junior high when Utah joined the Pac-12. Utah is a very respectable program, but they don’t have the scope of Illinois. Definitely not historically.
What does that mean, 'the scope' of Illinois?
Were they playing in different tournaments?
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Probably.
But it'd be really dumb to take a random basketball recruit from 2 hours away from SLC and just assume he grew up a big Utah basketball fan.
Again, I didn’t say that either. But it’s likely Rayj at least passively rooted for Illinois, or had friends and family that definitely do. Having a chance to be a hero at the local school (and one with decent history) has to be appealing to a kid (and his family). Whether they are Illinois diehards or not.
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I don’t live and die with Northwestern and DePaul by a longshot. But I pay attention to them, and will even “root” for them if they are relevant.
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I don’t live and die with Northwestern and DePaul by a longshot. But I pay attention to them, and will even “root” for them if they are relevant.
And if your kid was transferring, it'd be a really bad look for their coaches if he didn't go to Northwestern or DePaul?
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I thought we were comparing the programs?
You're talking about perception?
Illinois certainly has a better brand than Utah, but that's not really at issue here.
It's also a better program historically, but it's pretty close. Certainly much closer than say, Illinois and a Duke or UNC type program historically.
I think perception is part, if not the biggest part, of the equation in most players' eyes.
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I think perception is part, if not the biggest part, of the equation in most players' eyes.
Surely the perception of Illinois right now has to be better than at any other point since current recruits were like, 3 or 4 right?
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And if your kid was transferring, it'd be a really bad look for their coaches if he didn't go to Northwestern or DePaul?
Lol
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Lol
I mean yeah, I didn't think so.
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Surely the perception of Illinois right now has to be better than at any other point since current recruits were like, 3 or 4 right?
One would hope, but I am not sure that is the case. That is why this is a little troubling, especially considering the alleged money discrepancy.
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I mean yeah, I didn't think so.
You’re comparing NU and DePaul to Illinois. But you think ASU and Illinois are on about equal footing as programs, so guess I shouldn’t be shocked.
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You’re comparing NU and DePaul to Illinois. But you think ASU and Illinois are on about equal footing as programs, so guess I shouldn’t be shocked.
YOU brought up NU and DePaul.
His dad played baseball at TCU. No idea if he liked or likes Illinois basketball.
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When we were comparing programs I was comparing results - I wasn't aware I was supposed to be thinking about the program's "scope".
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His dad played baseball at TCU. No idea if he liked or likes Illinois basketball.
Odds are he didn't care one iota but was intrigued by 2004-05 like a lot of people in the northeastern Illinois area at the time.
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YOU brought up NU and DePaul.
His dad played baseball at TCU. No idea if he liked or likes Illinois basketball.
I did. And you apparently hold them to the same standard for Illinois players as Illinois. Which is patently absurd if someone is trying to hold a serious discussion. No one thinks NU and DePaul are primary competition for Illinois for basketball players. How many players have we lost to those programs?
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I did. And you apparently hold them to the same standard for Illinois players as Illinois. Which is patently absurd if someone is trying to hold a serious discussion. No one thinks NU and DePaul are primary competition for Illinois for basketball players. How many players have we lost to those programs?
Too busy losing them to Utah, apparently.
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I did. And you apparently hold them to the same standard for Illinois players as Illinois. Which is patently absurd if someone is trying to hold a serious discussion. No one thinks NU and DePaul are primary competition for Illinois for basketball players. How many players have we lost to those programs?
.. Dude, WHAT!?
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.. Dude, WHAT!?
I take it you think Tempo's post qualifies for the Tempo Strawman thread?
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Uh oh, Doms insider information of Mazzulla may come to an end
Even if Heat smoke them Game 5
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I take it you think Tempo's post qualifies for the Tempo Strawman thread?
Apparently he thinks that. Because NU and DePaul should “be embarrassed to lose an Illinois player to another school.”
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Here’s the exact quote. How else can this be interpreted?
“And if your kid was transferring, it'd be a really bad look for their coaches if he didn't go to Northwestern or DePaul?“
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Here’s the exact quote. How else can this be interpreted?
“And if your kid was transferring, it'd be a really bad look for their coaches if he didn't go to Northwestern or DePaul?“
What else could this be but an attemp to “level down” Illinois? No one expects DePaul and NU to match Illinois in recruiting. Including 99.8% of their fanbases.
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Hawkins trending downward after the NBA Draft Combine and this mock draft has him undrafted.
Coleman Hawkins (Illinois, PF, Junior)
A big part of the pitch to Hawkins is shooting, and he didn't look like a shooter during scrimmages or his pro day. He also wasn't much of a threat when he put the ball down, as he was frequently forced to turn his back to the rim and defender. He's a plus passer, but that seems unlikely to be enough for Hawkins to warrant anything but late second-round interest.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076423-stock-up-stock-down-how-the-2023-nba-draft-combine-changed-our-mock-draft
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Hawkins trending downward after the NBA Draft Combine and this mock draft has him undrafted.
Coleman Hawkins (Illinois, PF, Junior)
A big part of the pitch to Hawkins is shooting, and he didn't look like a shooter during scrimmages or his pro day. He also wasn't much of a threat when he put the ball down, as he was frequently forced to turn his back to the rim and defender. He's a plus passer, but that seems unlikely to be enough for Hawkins to warrant anything but late second-round interest.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076423-stock-up-stock-down-how-the-2023-nba-draft-combine-changed-our-mock-draft
Sounds about right. Really is not a threat on offense except for putbacks and run outs.
Cannot shoot from any of 3/mid/rim level really consistently.
Over rated on ball D.
Cannot stay in front of smaller wings or guard bigger players in post ups.
Does have good vision but poor IQ.
He might go, but doubt he can get a guarantee.
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Here’s the exact quote. How else can this be interpreted?
“And if your kid was transferring, it'd be a really bad look for their coaches if he didn't go to Northwestern or DePaul?“
I was using the examples you provided to show that your overall point - that someone's parent having a passing, cursory interest in a college basketball program sometimes - does not lead to it being a 'bad look' if they don't choose that school. That if your kid was choosing between Northwestern and, say, Oregon State, and chose OSU, it wouldn't be some huge indictment on the Northwestern coach just because you live near Chicago and occasionally show passing interest in Northwestern basketball.
It's amazing how much difficulty you have understanding really simple debate points. You're really spectacularly bad at honest debate, chock full of intentional misrepresentations and strawmen.
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What else could this be but an attemp to “level down” Illinois? No one expects DePaul and NU to match Illinois in recruiting. Including 99.8% of their fanbases.
If I were curious why those two schools were brought up in relation to the discussion we were having, I would ask the person who brought them up.
I simply took the examples you gave and used them. I'd never compare DePaul and Northwestern to Illinois, I used the examples you provided.
Would say the same for any school. If a kid grew up in NC and his dad had a passing, cursory interest in UNC basketball, I wouldn't say it was a bad look for him to not transfer to UNC because of that. I bet you think UNC is a much better comparison for Illinois.
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I gotta say, it's mostly my fault. For a decade or more I've attempted to inject some thought and nuance into these discussions, to try to point out that thinking about a gray situation in black and white is stupid - especially when we as fans have basically no information about the specifics of a recruitment.
Tempo is obviously not going to get it, so I should simply stop trying the "think about it this way" abstract thought thing. He cannot examine his own biases in that way, he's not capable.
He can't consider that maybe his passing interest in a Chicago school is the same as a non-native Illinois person's interest in Illinois basketball. Just doesn't compute to him. That person surely thinks just like he does, it's only logical!
Insists Illinois is actually way better than programs with similar historical results because of their 'scope'. When asked what that means specifically, crickets. "You just know!" type stuff. "It's just true". That's the evidence. It just is. There's no question whatsoever in my mind that he thinks we're closer to a program like Duke with 17 Final Fours than a program like Utah. Because of "the scope".
Incapable of entertaining an idea without subscribing to it.
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I was using the examples you provided to show that your overall point - that someone's parent having a passing, cursory interest in a college basketball program sometimes - does not lead to it being a 'bad look' if they don't choose that school. That if your kid was choosing between Northwestern and, say, Oregon State, and chose OSU, it wouldn't be some huge indictment on the Northwestern coach just because you live near Chicago and occasionally show passing interest in Northwestern basketball.
It's amazing how much difficulty you have understanding really simple debate points. You're really spectacularly bad at honest debate, chock full of intentional misrepresentations and strawmen.
What’s amazing is how much push back you’re willing to give on the idea an Illinois kid who thus far has only played at midmajors, might find Illinois a pretty attractive destination.
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What’s amazing is how much push back you’re willing to give on the idea an Illinois kid who thus far has only played at midmajors, might find Illinois a pretty attractive destination.
Nope, I've fully acknowledged that he might find Illinois an attractive destination multiple times, over and over really. You just ignore it. I've said "maybe he just hates Underwood?" or "Maybe Underwood just dropped the ball?" multiple times too, which you don't even acknowledge, but when I say "maybe they didn't like that Underwood passed on him last time?" you both 1. claim I am 'assuming that is true', which I'm not doing any more than I am in the 'maybe Underwood fucked up?' speculation, and 2. mock the notion that maybe a kid's parents might not like that the state university coach didn't even look at their first team all-state kid. I think it's clear based on this discussion that you would be shocked at the things that decide major recruitments, parents struggling to get past a coach overlooking their kid wouldn't even be slightly unusual.
What's at issue is that I also acknowledge that I have no idea whether that's actually true about RayJ Dennis, and that assuming it IS true is pretty silly, because there's just no way for either of us to know.
You can't acknowledge that you don't know. You simply assume he thinks like you, and mock anyone who suggests that it's possible he does not.
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If this were Anthony’ Davis, you’d have a much better point. Your typical 3 star midmajor kid from suburban Chicago would likely be over the moon to be offered by U of I.
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According to the Utes page, Dennis is still up in the air, but the ILLINI are now on the outside of this recruitment. Very unfortunate, and also very poor decision by this kid imo for draft prospects next year as well. The level of play is nowhere near the same, and they also have a lead guard returning that although as the article states is not eye popping, he did average 32 min a game and is dependable ( he will play still alot).
https://247sports.com/college/utah/longformarticle/utah-utes-basketball-a-look-at-the-future-of-the-runnin-utes-210615860/#2172204
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Will we feel better about this if he goes to Michigan instead?
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If this were Anthony’ Davis, you’d have a much better point. Your typical 3 star midmajor kid from suburban Chicago would likely be over the moon to be offered by U of I.
I have no idea if RayJ Dennis was "over the moon" when he was offered by U of I the second time around - he was not offered or even really looked at the first time. I'll have to take your assumption as fact, I suppose!
And that's what it comes down to. You're willing to criticize or praise someone based on your assumptions, without evidence. I am not willing to do that. I, and you, are biased as Illinois fans. I have no idea if RayJ Dennis, his parents, his friends, etc. are or ever were Illinois basketball fans. No idea.
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Hey Spark, have you ever noticed that in your never-ending quest for objectivity, every single opinion you offer either paints Underwood in a good light, or provides a soft-landing?
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Hey Spark, have you ever noticed that in your never-ending quest for objectivity, every single opinion you offer either paints Underwood in a good light, or provides a soft-landing?
As long as you ignore all the times I said "Maybe Underwood fucked this up?" and "Maybe they just hate Underwood?" etc., sure. When I said 'Maybe they are still mad Underwood didn't look at their kid last time?' you claimed I 'assumed' that that happened, but when I said 'maybe Underwood fucked this up?' you said "every single opinion you offer paints Underwood in a good light". Didn't see you say "why did you assume Underwood fucked this up?", not even one time.
Have you ever noticed that every single opinion you offer paints him in a negative light, regardless of evidence? And that far from offering alternatives to that, you mock people who suggest maybe you don't know?
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Maybe just maybe, the simple truth is the ILLINI need a PG who is above avg...(RayJ), the above avg player was a 3 star in HS and not offered by ANY P-5 school at the time. That same player got a taste of the northwest climate at Boise St. came back to the Midwest, and has determined he likes it more out west, and has a connection already at a school with the locale and the need for him? No slight to ILLINI for not offering first time, just preference and comfort levels?
Either way, look for the staff to get Grad PG with commitment soon, so that both TSJ and Hawk announce they will be running it back one more time with us.
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wHy aRe yOu AsSuMiNg hE lIkEs iT bEtTeR oUt WeSt!?
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According to the Utes page, Dennis is still up in the air, but the ILLINI are now on the outside of this recruitment. Very unfortunate, and also very poor decision by this kid imo for draft prospects next year as well. The level of play is nowhere near the same, and they also have a lead guard returning that although as the article states is not eye popping, he did average 32 min a game and is dependable ( he will play still alot).
https://247sports.com/college/utah/longformarticle/utah-utes-basketball-a-look-at-the-future-of-the-runnin-utes-210615860/#2172204
He was never going to the NBA. He didn’t even get invited the Combine this year as a senior.
Not playing for Underwood is a great decision. He’s a terrible coach. As you can see by all the guys that have gotten sick of playing for him
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I’ve heard in the neighborhood of $300,000 difference between Utah offer and our offer …
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Maybe just maybe, the simple truth is the ILLINI need a PG who is above avg...(RayJ), the above avg player was a 3 star in HS and not offered by ANY P-5 school at the time. That same player got a taste of the northwest climate at Boise St. came back to the Midwest, and has determined he likes it more out west, and has a connection already at a school with the locale and the need for him? No slight to ILLINI for not offering first time, just preference and comfort levels?
Either way, look for the staff to get Grad PG with commitment soon, so that both TSJ and Hawk announce they will be running it back one more time with us.
Shannon ain’t playing for this shit show again.
Been telling you that for over a month.
I’m the only insider here whose word is worth anything.
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Utah plays in the Pac-12. He'll see plenty of competition there, if that's where he ends up.
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I’ve heard in the neighborhood of $300,000 difference between Utah offer and our offer …
Still reloading on Loyalty?
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I’ve heard in the neighborhood of $300,000 difference between Utah offer and our offer …
Hilarious if true.
Nobody good wants to play for this staff.
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I was using the examples you provided to show that your overall point - that someone's parent having a passing, cursory interest in a college basketball program sometimes - does not lead to it being a 'bad look' if they don't choose that school. That if your kid was choosing between Northwestern and, say, Oregon State, and chose OSU, it wouldn't be some huge indictment on the Northwestern coach just because you live near Chicago and occasionally show passing interest in Northwestern basketball.
It's amazing how much difficulty you have understanding really simple debate points. You're really spectacularly bad at honest debate, chock full of intentional misrepresentations and strawmen.
Imagine living in Illinois most of your life, being an Illini fan; and thinking that NU and Illinois are even remotely comparable.
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I'd never compare DePaul and Northwestern to Illinois, I used the examples you provided.
Absolutely false. You did indeed do just that when you adjusted Illinois’ expectations down to NUs and DePaul’s.
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Imagine living in Illinois most of your life, being an Illini fan; and thinking that NU and Illinois are even remotely comparable.
If I meet someone who thinks that I'll let 'em know you think it's stupid.
That you think it's me is hilarious, and shows just how difficult you find following a simple discussion.
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Absolutely false. You did indeed do just that when you adjusted Illinois’ expectations down to NUs and DePaul’s.
I used the exact examples you provided intentionally. I didn't come up with those schools as a comparison, you did.
Switch it to UNC if it makes you feel better.
The point is that somebody's parent having, maybe, a cursory interest in a college basketball program because it's a few hours away from them does not mean them choosing to go somewhere else is some really bad look. It's got nothing to do with Northwestern or even Illinois specifically.
If you're stuck on "you think Illinois and Northwestern are comparable!" you completely misunderstood, which obviously isn't that surprising.
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I gotta say, it's mostly my fault. For a decade or more I've attempted to inject some thought and nuance into these discussions, to try to point out that thinking about a gray situation in black and white is stupid - especially when we as fans have basically no information about the specifics of a recruitment.
Tempo is obviously not going to get it, so I should simply stop trying the "think about it this way" abstract thought thing. He cannot examine his own biases in that way, he's not capable.
He can't consider that maybe his passing interest in a Chicago school is the same as a non-native Illinois person's interest in Illinois basketball. Just doesn't compute to him. That person surely thinks just like he does, it's only logical!
Insists Illinois is actually way better than programs with similar historical results because of their 'scope'. When asked what that means specifically, crickets. "You just know!" type stuff. "It's just true". That's the evidence. It just is. There's no question whatsoever in my mind that he thinks we're closer to a program like Duke with 17 Final Fours than a program like Utah. Because of "the scope".
Incapable of entertaining an idea without subscribing to it.
Fucking hilarious.
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Fucking hilarious.
I laugh at all your strawmen, yeah. Have literally never had a discussion with you that didn't end with you just telling me my opinion and beating the shit out of it. What I actually think has simply never been of value to you, you seem to think it's legitimately irrelevant to discussions I take part in.
What's particularly funny is how mad you get - rightfully so - when people do the stupid Reggie Theus shit. You know it sucks when people just make up your argument and beat it up rather than listening to what you say. But you do that to me literally every single time we talk. You still do it, JUST like they do with Reggie Theus, about stuff I've explained dozens of times for years. Just make up something instead.
You've never, ever, been capable of reading a post and accurately pulling out someone's point, so you simply make up a point and argue against it.
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Who did I say Illinois is (historically) way better than? Utah? Performance wise, they are mostly comparable. What isn’t comparable is the conference (especially when considering their conferences historically), and visibility. No one but hardcore basketball fans watch west coast basketball. Dee Brown had a higher profile here than he would have had at Utah. That’s pretty much undebatable. Didn’t Utah have a #1 overall pick 15 years or so ago? I can’t even recall who it was. And I actually watched a lot of college ball back then.
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Nope, I've fully acknowledged that he might find Illinois an attractive destination multiple times, over and over really. You just ignore it. I've said "maybe he just hates Underwood?" or "Maybe Underwood just dropped the ball?" multiple times too, which you don't even acknowledge, but when I say "maybe they didn't like that Underwood passed on him last time?" you both 1. claim I am 'assuming that is true', which I'm not doing any more than I am in the 'maybe Underwood fucked up?' speculation, and 2. mock the notion that maybe a kid's parents might not like that the state university coach didn't even look at their first team all-state kid. I think it's clear based on this discussion that you would be shocked at the things that decide major recruitments, parents struggling to get past a coach overlooking their kid wouldn't even be slightly unusual.
What's at issue is that I also acknowledge that I have no idea whether that's actually true about RayJ Dennis, and that assuming it IS true is pretty silly, because there's just no way for either of us to know.
You can't acknowledge that you don't know. You simply assume he thinks like you, and mock anyone who suggests that it's possible he does not.
You did (acknowledge it)? In the last couple pages? IDK I’m having a hard time keeping up with this rapid fire pace. I’m like two pages behind already this morning. So far all I’ve seen is a soft-landing pad for Underwood. And that’s fine, but just don’t try to tell me that a former 3 star from suburban Chicago is just as likely to consider or choose Utah (all things considered) as Illinois. Because that just isn’t true.
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Who did I say Illinois is (historically) way better than? Utah? Performance wise, they are mostly comparable. What isn’t comparable is the conference (especially when considering their conferences historically), and visibility. No one but hardcore basketball fans watch west coast basketball. Dee Brown had a higher profile here than he would have had at Utah. That’s pretty much undebatable. Didn’t Utah have a #1 overall pick 15 years or so ago? I can’t even recall who it was. And I actually watched a lot of college ball back then.
You mentioned Illinois has a 'better scope' than Utah, but couldn't define that.
I think Illinois IS a better program historically, but it's pretty close, and "it just is" isn't really a compelling argument. I think that because of the programs' results, not because of their conference or their "scope" or any other nebulous made up criteria I could use.
Why does their historical conference matter? Did their successes come in the Mid-Major NCAA Tournament? They play in a high-major conference now, and have for more than a decade.
It was Andrew Bogut. He went two picks in front of our All American. Milwaukee must not have known about the scope. No way they thought the best player on Utah tended to be better than the best player on Illinois.
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I’m not going to post for a bit. I have a fuckton of posts to read to catch up.
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You did (acknowledge it)? In the last couple pages? IDK I’m having a hard time keeping up with this rapid fire pace. I’m like two pages behind already this morning. So far all I’ve seen is a soft-landing pad for Underwood. And that’s fine, but just don’t try to tell me that a former 3 star from suburban Chicago is just as likely to consider or choose Utah (all things considered) as Illinois. Because that just isn’t true.
I didn't try to tell you that at all, which you know because you've read my posts and are capable of thought that isn't the purest black-and-white.
And yes, I've acknowledged over and over that it's possible Underwood just fucked this up and dropped the ball. Multiple times, last night, this morning - the whole time my point is "I do not know what happened", and I certainly have acknowledged the possibility Underwood fucked up. I just do not know, and am unwilling to pretend that I do. But you only accused me of "assuming" the opposite.
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Andrew Bogut
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Why would I have to explain “scope” to a college basketball nut? You don’t recognize that half the country doesn’t watch west coast basketball? I haven’t looked it up, but I’ll bet Illinois’ budget far exceeds Utah’s. Yes, Illinois is higher profile than Utah. That’s not debatable in the least.
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I was using the examples you provided to show that your overall point - that someone's parent having a passing, cursory interest in a college basketball program sometimes - does not lead to it being a 'bad look' if they don't choose that school. That if your kid was choosing between Northwestern and, say, Oregon State, and chose OSU, it wouldn't be some huge indictment on the Northwestern coach just because you live near Chicago and occasionally show passing interest in Northwestern basketball.
It's amazing how much difficulty you have understanding really simple debate points. You're really spectacularly bad at honest debate, chock full of intentional misrepresentations and strawmen.
See, you just compared NU to Illinois. Illinois has a pretty good history of getting kids they want out of Illinois (despite all the crying about the ones that got away). Many kids we didn’t even see as offer worthy turned out to be great college players. By saying “if northwestern shouldn’t be embarrassed, neither should Illinois,” you are indeed, comparing the two.
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Why would I have to explain “scope” to a college basketball nut? You don’t recognize that half the country doesn’t watch west coast basketball? I haven’t looked it up, but I’ll bet Illinois’ budget far exceeds Utah’s. Yes, Illinois is higher profile than Utah. That’s not debatable in the least.
I'd like to know what we're discussing specifically when we talk about 'scope'. Brand? Yeah, Illinois definitely has a higher profile brand than Utah. They also have a higher profile brand than a lot of schools that have had similar or more success to them. I am not and never have been talking about their brand, I am talking about their program.
They also have a higher profile brand and bigger "scope" than, say, Gonzaga - but I'd understand if a kid picked Gonzaga over Illinois.
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See, you just compared NU to Illinois. Illinois has a pretty good history of getting kids they want out of Illinois (despite all the crying about the ones that got away). Many kids we didn’t even see as offer worthy turned out to be great college players. By saying “if northwestern shouldn’t be embarrassed, neither should Illinois,” you are indeed, comparing the two.
I simply borrowed the comparison you made. If it was a stupid comparison, you shouldn't have made it.
Switch it to UNC. Point is exactly the same, as you've already ignored a bunch of times.
Honest question: is Illinois more similar to UNC as a program, or to Utah?
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My only point in bringing them up is that when they are good, even Illinoisans who aren’t fans pay attention. So it’s highly unlikely Illinois was just never on his radar or anyone around him. He’s probably got at least a couple of good friends who there.
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I simply borrowed the comparison you made. If it was a stupid comparison, you shouldn't have made it.
Switch it to UNC. Point is exactly the same, as you've already ignored a bunch of times.
Honest question: is Illinois more similar to UNC as a program, or to Utah?
Again, I wasn’t “comparing” anything. I was merely stating when those programs are good people notice. Particularly people from the Chicago area.
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Again, I wasn’t “comparing” anything. I was merely stating when those programs are good people notice. Particularly people from the Chicago area.
I wasn't comparing the programs either, I simply took the example you gave and used it to show that your thought process is silly. Switch it to UNC, if you don't like the example you used.
I must have just not taken into account the Scope!
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Nope, I've fully acknowledged that he might find Illinois an attractive destination multiple times, over and over really. You just ignore it. I've said "maybe he just hates Underwood?" or "Maybe Underwood just dropped the ball?" multiple times too, which you don't even acknowledge, but when I say "maybe they didn't like that Underwood passed on him last time?" you both 1. claim I am 'assuming that is true', which I'm not doing any more than I am in the 'maybe Underwood fucked up?' speculation, and 2. mock the notion that maybe a kid's parents might not like that the state university coach didn't even look at their first team all-state kid. I think it's clear based on this discussion that you would be shocked at the things that decide major recruitments, parents struggling to get past a coach overlooking their kid wouldn't even be slightly unusual.
What's at issue is that I also acknowledge that I have no idea whether that's actually true about RayJ Dennis, and that assuming it IS true is pretty silly, because there's just no way for either of us to know.
You can't acknowledge that you don't know. You simply assume he thinks like you, and mock anyone who suggests that it's possible he does not.
No, I would just never offer up some bizarre theory as to why something might not happen when I’m just pulling things up out of thin air. Especially something as random as a perceived slight from 4 years ago. And…I never said you said that was “true.” I mocked you for offering the suggestion. Especially when he’s had a visit here.
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My only point in bringing them up is that when they are good, even Illinoisans who aren’t fans pay attention. So it’s highly unlikely Illinois was just never on his radar or anyone around him. He’s probably got at least a couple of good friends who there.
And someone said "It's highly likely Illinois was just never on his or anyone around him's radar?" Or are you just arguing against nobody again?
I think he probably knows people who like Illinois, yeah. I have no idea if he does, if his parents do, if it would influence his college decision, etc. If Loyalty is right (again, pretty funny how jasn made this thread to shit on them but breathlessly reports everything they say here as fact minutes later if its negative) and he passed on $300k, maybe Illinois wasn't such a big draw to him? Maybe Underwood was an asshole to his family? Who fucking knows? I think it's clear if that number is true, the "draw" of Illinois to an Illinois kid was not particularly strong for RayJ Dennis.
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I wasn't comparing the programs either, I simply took the example you gave and used it to show that your thought process is silly. Switch it to UNC, if you don't like the example you used.
I must have just not taken into account the Scope!
You absolutely were “comparing” them. You lowered Illinois’ expectations down to DePaul and NU. That’s EXACTLY what you attempted to do. Soft-landing.
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This reminds me of when Spark mocked me for using the term “pocket presence,” even though everyone who evaluates quarterbacks understands what that term means, and uses it.
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I don't remember that, but if you use a term you can't define and when asked to define it you say "you just know, it just is", then yeah, I'm going to mock you for that.
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You absolutely were “comparing” them. You lowered Illinois’ expectations down to DePaul and NU. That’s EXACTLY what you attempted to do. Soft-landing.
Well, when you find the Tempo who made the post bringing up NU and DePaul as analogs for this situation, tell him you thought it was stupid.
In a similar way, I have raised Illinois' expectations up to UNC! You just, again, ignore it when you can't make up something to argue against it.
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I laugh at all your strawmen, yeah. Have literally never had a discussion with you that didn't end with you just telling me my opinion and beating the shit out of it. What I actually think has simply never been of value to you, you seem to think it's legitimately irrelevant to discussions I take part in.
What's particularly funny is how mad you get - rightfully so - when people do the stupid Reggie Theus shit. You know it sucks when people just make up your argument and beat it up rather than listening to what you say. But you do that to me literally every single time we talk. You still do it, JUST like they do with Reggie Theus, about stuff I've explained dozens of times for years. Just make up something instead.
You've never, ever, been capable of reading a post and accurately pulling out someone's point, so you simply make up a point and argue against it.
Again, how is lowering the expectations down to NU and DePaul’s standard “not comparing” them? Because that’s exactly what you did.
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It was Andrew Bogut. He went two picks in front of our All American. Milwaukee must not have known about the scope. No way they thought the best player on Utah tended to be better than the best player on Illinois.
And you claim I’m the only one using disingenuous debate techniques…
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And you claim I’m the only one using disingenuous debate techniques…
Hahahahaha, yes. You can see it when someone uses your own 'logic' against you, but somehow miss that when you type it out.
If you think I typed that because it's a thing I actually believe, you're even further behind than I thought you were.
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Again, how is lowering the expectations down to NU and DePaul’s standard “not comparing” them? Because that’s exactly what you did.
I also compared them to UNC!
Which you know because you've read the thread and aren't just cherry picking half of what I say to make up a strawman and beat it up!
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I'd like to know what we're discussing specifically when we talk about 'scope'. Brand? Yeah, Illinois definitely has a higher profile brand than Utah. They also have a higher profile brand than a lot of schools that have had similar or more success to them. I am not and never have been talking about their brand, I am talking about their program.
They also have a higher profile brand and bigger "scope" than, say, Gonzaga - but I'd understand if a kid picked Gonzaga over Illinois.
Yes, “brand” would have been a better word. “Higher profile” would
Have worked better as well. But you’re a smart guy, I thought you’d get my drift.
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Yes, “brand” would have been a better word. “Higher profile” would
Have worked better as well. But you’re a smart guy, I thought you’d get my drift.
It's just tangential to the programs' historical success, which is what I was talking about. It's a deflection.
A brand does not make a program. If it did we'd have a title and UConn wouldn't have five.
In terms of brand reach, Forbes says we have a bigger/more valuable brand than UCLA, but I hope you wouldn't agree we've been a similar program to UCLA historically.
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I simply borrowed the comparison you made. If it was a stupid comparison, you shouldn't have made it.
Switch it to UNC. Point is exactly the same, as you've already ignored a bunch of times.
Honest question: is Illinois more similar to UNC as a program, or to Utah?
In between. Illinois I’d say is closer to Syracuse than a true blue blood like UNC. Utah is one of the most successful midmajor programs ever, but literally almost no one cares. No one even sees them until Tournament time.
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It's just tangential to the programs' historical success, which is what I was talking about. It's a deflection.
A brand does not make a program. If it did we'd have a title and UConn wouldn't have five.
In terms of brand reach, Forbes says we have a bigger/more valuable brand than UCLA, but I hope you wouldn't agree we've been a similar program to UCLA historically.
If the 2005 team played for Utah, almost no one would have seen them until tournament time.
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In between. Illinois I’d say is closer to Syracuse than a true blue blood like UNC. Utah is one of the most successful midmajor programs ever, but literally almost no one cares. No one even sees them until Tournament time.
Of course they're in between, I'm asking which they're closer to. UNC or Utah?
In terms of brand value, it's UNC. In terms of historical success it's Utah and it isn't particularly close.
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This reminds me of when Spark mocked me for using the term “pocket presence,” even though everyone who evaluates quarterbacks understands what that term means, and uses it.
Spark has 5 days left. Then this cancer is gone.
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Hahahahaha, yes. You can see it when someone uses your own 'logic' against you, but somehow miss that when you type it out.
If you think I typed that because it's a thing I actually believe, you're even further behind than I thought you were.
By lowering Illinois’ expectations to that of DePaul and NU, you did indeed “compare them.” If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you.
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Here's Forbes' list of most valuable CBB brands (a couple years old now, admittedly).
It is notably NOT a list of the best college basketball programs.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2020/03/19/college-basketball-most-valuable-teams-ncaa-march-madness/?sh=17448e5a285d
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By lowering Illinois’ expectations to that of DePaul and NU, you did indeed “compare them.” If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you.
I used the examples I was provided. I also provided another example, a blue blood - that is the only comparison that came out of my own head - but you have yet to chastise me for 'comparing' Illinois to UNC. Because you aren't interested in reading what I say and debating it with me; only making up a stance I didn't take and arguing with that.
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I used the examples I was provided. I also provided another example, a blue blood - that is the only comparison that came out of my own head - but you have yet to chastise me for 'comparing' Illinois to UNC. Because you aren't interested in reading what I say and debating it with me; only making up a stance I didn't take and arguing with that.
Admittedly, I’m having a devil of a time trying to keep up with this pace, but where did you “compare” them? You asked me to compare them. Just brining them up in discussion isn’t “comparing” them. You did that (with DePaul and NU). “If they aren’t embarrassed to lose an Illinois kid, why should Illinois be?!” That’s just a hilariously awful take. Now I’ll wait for you to tell me you didn’t basically say that. But you did.
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Yes, I paraphrased, but that was your point. NU and DePaul shouldn’t be embarrassed for losing an Illinois kid, so neither should U of I.
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Admittedly, I’m having a devil of a time trying to keep up with this pace, but where did you “compare” them? You asked me to compare them. Just brining them up in discussion isn’t “comparing” them. You did that (with DePaul and NU). “If they aren’t embarrassed to lose an Illinois kid, why should Illinois be?!” That’s just a hilariously awful take. Now I’ll wait for you to tell me you didn’t basically saw that. But you did.
Nope! You made up something, put it in quotes, and attributed it to me - as usual.
You can keep repeating "but you did" (see how that works? quotes around a thing you actually said), and yet I still did not.
You can keep shouting "you think Illinois and Northwestern are comparable programs!!!!!!11!!" over me saying "I do not think Illinois and Northwestern are comparable programs", but that isn't a discussion. I'm telling you directly: I do not think they are comparable programs. I used those examples because YOU used them. I also used UNC, but you have yet to have the same level of outrage about that because you're not all that interested in what I actually think, only in beating that strawman's ass and claiming victory.
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Yes, I paraphrased, but that was your point. NU and DePaul shouldn’t be embarrassed for losing an Illinois kid, so neither should U of I.
No school should be embarrassed for losing a kid simply because their parents or friends may have had a passing cursory interest in that school's basketball program, whether that's Northwestern, Illinois, or UNC. That was the point from the very beginning. I used the examples you provided to make it, I didn't come up with those programs. You did. The only program I came up with to compare was North Carolina.
Look, OMG, I compared Northwestern and UNC basketball!
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Spark has 5 days left. Then this cancer is gone.
Spark is a good and smart dude. He’s just got some weird fanatical mission of hyper-objectivity that apparently requires soft-landing pads for guys like Brad Underwood and Ryan Poles. Oops, just opened another can of worms…
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And I think he really undervalues the program. No one should be able to say that ASU and Illinois are on equal footing with a straight face. Certainly not historically.
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Spark is a good and smart dude. He’s just got some weird fanatical mission of hyper-objectivity that apparently requires soft-landing pads for guys like Brad Underwood and Ryan Poles. Oops, just opened another can of worms…
I can see, based on your arguments, that you completely eschew any attempt at objectivity - I just disagree that that's some virtuous thing, and that being as objective as you can, trying to remove your own biases from the equation, is worthy of mockery.
You and I are very different in that way.
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And I think he really undervalues the program. No one should be able to say that ASU and Illinois are on equal footing with a straight face. Certainly not historically.
And nobody should say that Reggie Theus is the only guy who can bring back Illinois basketball, but here we are.
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No school should be embarrassed for losing a kid simply because their parents or friends may have had a passing cursory interest in that school's basketball program, whether that's Northwestern, Illinois, or UNC. That was the point from the very beginning. I used the examples you provided to make it, I didn't come up with those programs. You did. The only program I came up with to compare was North Carolina.
Look, OMG, I compared Northwestern and UNC basketball!
Again, let’s not get too wrapped up in “a bad look” comment. It’s not end of the world damning criticism. Certainly a stubbed toe, but quit being so sensitive over minute criticisms of program leadership. Stubbed toes are gonna happen. How do you keep from stubbing your toes regularly? That’s the only real question.
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LMFAO
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And nobody should say that Reggie Theus is the only guy who can bring back Illinois basketball, but here we are.
Wut
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Wut
Making up stances for other people and then beating them up IS fun. Right?
I said "ASU and Illinois are historically equal programs" in the exact same way you said "Reggie Theus is the only option for Illinois Basketball".
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I can see, based on your arguments, that you completely eschew any attempt at objectivity - I just disagree that that's some virtuous thing, and that being as objective as you can, trying to remove your own biases from the equation, is worthy of mockery.
You and I are very different in that way.
Expecting that there’s a good chance a suburban 3 star midmajor player might fancy playing for Illinois isn’t “bias.” It’s reality.
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To borrow from Spark, exactly nowhere have I said that every kid from Illinois dreams of playing for the Illini.
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Expecting that there’s a good chance a suburban 3 star midmajor player might fancy playing for Illinois isn’t “bias.” It’s reality.
It's an assumption you're making with literally zero evidence whatsoever. Just pure projection. You have NO idea what RayJ Dennis thought about Illinois growing up, or what he thinks about them now - same with his parents. You and I just don't have any way to know that.
Is it possible he grew up a big Illinois fan and wanted to go there? For sure, definitely possible, as I've said a bunch of times. Is it possible he grew up in an era when Illinois basketball missed 7/10 tournaments and doesn't really care that much one way or the other about Illinois basketball? Yeah, that's possible too. The issue is you only are willing to consider one of those two things, whereas you find it worthy of mockery to acknowledge that we simply have no way of knowing.
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To borrow from Spark, exactly nowhere have I said that every kid from Illinois dreams of playing for the Illini.
You have simply assumed that this kid did. If he didn't, why is this such a bad look?
We're not talking about some nebulous generic "suburban kid". We are talking about RayJ Dennis.
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Making up stances for other people and then beating them up IS fun. Right?
I said "ASU and Illinois are historically equal programs" in the exact same way you said "Reggie Theus is the only option for Illinois Basketball".
And again, you do the same thing you accuse me of doing. I don’t believe I ever said that you “think they are historically equal.” I was very careful to use phrases like “on equal footing.” Because my only point ever in that argument is that it is “easier” to win at Illinois than it is at ASU. And the fact that every decade in basketball history supports that claim was basically shot down by you.
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And again, you do the same thing you accuse me of doing. I don’t believe I ever said that you “think they are historically equal.” I was very careful to use phrases like “on equal footing.” Because my only point ever in that argument is that it is “easier” to win at Illinois than it is at ASU. And the fact that every decade in basketball supports that claim was basically shot down by you.
Hahahaha man. Okay.
Do you just want my password? That seems easier and less disruptive than the current method, that way you could just log in and post what I think, and then log back in as you and argue against it.
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You have simply assumed that this kid did. If he didn't, why is this such a bad look?
We're not talking about some nebulous generic "suburban kid". We are talking about RayJ Dennis.
Again, pretty sure I never said that either. What I “assume” is that are people in his orbit who would love for him to attend the U of I. Possibly even himself or his family. Almost certainly former coaches or friends if nothing else. If he wasn’t a fan of the program, I’m sure U of I has been in his orbit since he was a high schooler or before.
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Here comes the “been in his orbit!” slam…
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Again, pretty sure I never said that either. What I “assume” is that are people in his orbit who would love for him to attend the U of I. Possibly even himself or his family. Almost certainly former coaches or friends if nothing else. If he wasn’t a fan of the program, I’m sure U of I has been in his orbit since he was a high schooler or before.
Yes, I'm well aware your entire point is based on assuming something you have literally no way of knowing at all - both that it is true, AND that it influenced his decision. That's why I've been making fun of it for two days.
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Hahahaha man. Okay.
Do you just want my password? That seems easier and less disruptive than the current method, that way you could just log in and post what I think, and then log back in as you and argue against it.
Again, go back a couple of pages and notice I said “on equal footing,” because even you wouldn’t be crazy enough to say they are “historically the same.”
For the 50th time, my only point in that argument was it’s “easier” to win at Illinois. 100 years’ worth of history seems to support that fully.
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Yes, I'm well aware your entire point is based on assuming something you have literally no way of knowing at all - both that it is true, AND that it influenced his decision. That's why I've been making fun of it for two days.
Or I could just throw out soft-landing pad theories like “maybe he has salty parents.”
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You have simply assumed that this kid did. If he didn't, why is this such a bad look?
We're not talking about some nebulous generic "suburban kid". We are talking about RayJ Dennis.
Because Illinois should have an excellent shot at landing a midmajor kid from Oswego. If we don’t, after we stub our toe we say “fuck, that hurt!” And hope that’s it’s a while before we do it again…
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Or I could just throw out soft-landing pad theories like “maybe he has salty parents.”
And "Maybe Underwood dropped the ball and fucked this up?"
You know, the things I assumed happened.
Again, the notion that it's laughable to consider maybe a kid's parents wouldn't like that our coaching staff wasn't at all interested in him last time is hilarious to me. Pretty clear you've never followed high level recruiting other than from this very fan-centric perspective.
Said it earlier in the thread, but that's really not uncommon. These are people with feelings and relationships, good and bad. We have lost Illinois kids because they didn't like our staff (this staff, and others). We have gotten out-of-state kids because they did. It's not some video game where him being from Illinois gives us exactly a 25% better chance to get him. It's not College Hoops 2k8.
We cut the offer from a top recruit and future NBA player who wanted to play at Illinois at the last second because he fucked the sister of one of the guys we already had committed. And that's surely not close to the silliest shit that happens in recruiting.
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Because Illinois should have an excellent shot at landing a midmajor kid from Oswego. If we don’t, after we stub our toe we say “fuck, that hurt!” And hope that’s it’s a while before we do it again…
They did, by all accounts, have a great shot at getting him.
The rumor right now is that they did not get him, and you've decided that since he was from Oswego, it was a bad look for our coaching staff. You say that with no knowledge of how the kid or his parents feel about Illinois basketball or Underwood, but you think it's "logical" to simply assume that since he's from Illinois, it's likely he would be "over the moon" to get an Illinois offer. You're unwilling to consider any alternatives to that, you will mock someone who acknowledges that we have no idea how they feel about Illinois or Underwood. They lived in Illinois, it's only logical to assume they think just like you do about Illinois basketball.
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Just because Rayj grew up in the burbs we can’t assume there’s a good chance he roots for local teams! I tried to find something from 5 years or so ago Illini related, but he tweets a fair amount. So stopped around two years back.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CM9wkwrb/7-C620877-F3-CC-4-DD6-9-F42-B4-DCBEC7-D71-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtcWGf0v)
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Oh, he's a Bears fan?
An even worse look for Underwood!
Assume you found some pro-Illini tweets too right? A guy from Oswego has most likely tweeted positively about Illinois basketball in the last two years.
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According to the Utes page, Dennis is still up in the air, but the ILLINI are now on the outside of this recruitment. Very unfortunate, and also very poor decision by this kid imo for draft prospects next year as well. The level of play is nowhere near the same, and they also have a lead guard returning that although as the article states is not eye popping, he did average 32 min a game and is dependable ( he will play still alot).
https://247sports.com/college/utah/longformarticle/utah-utes-basketball-a-look-at-the-future-of-the-runnin-utes-210615860/#2172204
More factors which should fall in Illinois' favor at this point. Which makes one wonder why Illinois is on the outside looking in. Maybe it is Underachiever!?
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I gotta say, it's mostly my fault. For a decade or more I've attempted to inject some thought and nuance into these discussions, to try to point out that thinking about a gray situation in black and white is stupid - especially when we as fans have basically no information about the specifics of a recruitment.
Tempo is obviously not going to get it, so I should simply stop trying the "think about it this way" abstract thought thing. He cannot examine his own biases in that way, he's not capable.
He can't consider that maybe his passing interest in a Chicago school is the same as a non-native Illinois person's interest in Illinois basketball. Just doesn't compute to him. That person surely thinks just like he does, it's only logical!
Insists Illinois is actually way better than programs with similar historical results because of their 'scope'. When asked what that means specifically, crickets. "You just know!" type stuff. "It's just true". That's the evidence. It just is. There's no question whatsoever in my mind that he thinks we're closer to a program like Duke with 17 Final Fours than a program like Utah. Because of "the scope".
Incapable of entertaining an idea without subscribing to it.
Yes, you have created a monster.
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I’ve heard in the neighborhood of $300,000 difference between Utah offer and our offer …
From which Loyalty insider?
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Yes, you have created a monster.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3Js823RP/346-BB877-DA7-D-40-AD-9-E20-D8-E2765-E218-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzGHTV2L)
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Oh, he's a Bears fan?
An even worse look for Underwood!
Assume you found some pro-Illini tweets too right? A guy from Oswego has most likely tweeted positively about Illinois basketball in the last two years.
I explained that I didn’t scroll back 5-6 years. He tweets a lot. But we could never assume there’s a good chance he roots for local teams! That’s just assuming too much!
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I wouldn’t expect he was tweeting pro-Illini stuff while playing at another school. But he tweets a lot. So can’t say for sure.
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I explained that I didn’t scroll back 5-6 years. He tweets a lot. But we could never assume there’s a good chance he roots for local teams! That’s just assuming too much!
If he thinks The Wingback should have been an All-Pro last year I'm glad he is not coming here.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/3Js823RP/346-BB877-DA7-D-40-AD-9-E20-D8-E2765-E218-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzGHTV2L)
He wants to free "Taco Tuesday."
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I explained that I didn’t scroll back 5-6 years. He tweets a lot. But we could never assume there’s a good chance he roots for local teams! That’s just assuming too much!
So that's a no, you didn't find any pro-Illini tweets.
I kind of figured.
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I wouldn’t expect he was tweeting pro-Illini stuff while playing at another school. But he tweets a lot. So can’t say for sure.
Huh?
He's a mid-major kid from Oswego, there's a good chance he has tweeted pro-Illini stuff.
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Huh?
He's a mid-major kid from Oswego, there's a good chance he has tweeted pro-Illini stuff.
Good stuff.
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So that's a no, you didn't find any pro-Illini tweets.
I kind of figured.
Yeah, sorry I didn’t check all the hundreds of tweets.
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But you’re right, assuming there’s a decent chance he roots for local teams is just assuming too much.
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Huh?
He's a mid-major kid from Oswego, there's a good chance he has tweeted pro-Illini stuff.
Please never accuse me of being the one who argues in bad faith again. Thanks…
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At least own up that both of us take liberties while paraphrasing.
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Good stuff.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZrZfgXp/4-D94351-E-1618-406-A-8-C1-B-94-DC9954-DEF2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDhmPjKj)
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Not sure when this was taken, but he doesn’t look 23 here. Not sure which one he is, either. They look about like twin brothers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fTnbt1K2/B758-E949-7-EEC-406-B-BB4-F-B873-D87-B5-A48.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w32znfnL)
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I feel like a slacker that I’m not willing to review his 3,845 tweets for Illini related material.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/DZrZfgXp/4-D94351-E-1618-406-A-8-C1-B-94-DC9954-DEF2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDhmPjKj)
The picture Spark has painted today is an accurate one. You construct strawmen galore. You cannot argue in good faith and then whine when called out on it.
You are the one who raised NU and DePaul and then claimed Spark argued they were equal to Illinois.
There is something wrong here and it isn't the rest of us (except for Dom).
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I feel like a slacker that I’m not willing to review his 3,845 tweets for Illini related material.
No worries, it's only logical that he's tweeted a lot about how much he loves the Illini - he's from Oswego, after all. We can operate on the assumption that he has.
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No worries, it's only logical that he's tweeted a lot about how much he loves the Illini - he's from Oswego, after all. We can operate on the assumption that he has.
It’s funny how you ask me not to twist your words yet you keep doing so to me post after post.
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Not sure when this was taken, but he doesn’t look 23 here. Not sure which one he is, either. They look about like twin brothers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fTnbt1K2/B758-E949-7-EEC-406-B-BB4-F-B873-D87-B5-A48.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w32znfnL)
No comment for this one?
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It’s funny how you ask me not to twist your words yet you keep doing so to me post after post.
You obviously thought he might've, no?
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You obviously thought he might've, no?
Who might’ve what?
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The 2018 defense was special though. And could have won the Super Bowl with a better qb and HC. Which was my point all along.
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No comment for this one?
What kind of comment would you like?
Yes, he's from Illinois. It's not that surprising he's been to Illini games. I'm not sure what you believe it proves, but I'm sure you're willing to extrapolate that picture into meaning something really significant.
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Who might’ve what?
You thought he might've tweeted a bunch of positive stuff about Illinois, I assume. Not sure why else you'd have dug through two years of tweets looking for some.
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The picture Spark has painted today is an accurate one. You construct strawmen galore. You cannot argue in good faith and then whine when called out on it.
You are the one who raised NU and DePaul and then claimed Spark argued they were equal to Illinois.
There is something wrong here and it isn't the rest of us (except for Dom).
JFC you talk about reading comprehension. I never “compared” them to Illinois. Surprised Spark doesn’t see the point I was making, not surprised you don’t. I merely made the point that as Illinoisans we take notice of even the shitty programs if they are doing well. You are doing some quality ankle-biting today. Keep it up.
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What kind of comment would you like?
Yes, he's from Illinois. It's not that surprising he's been to Illini games. I'm not sure what you believe it proves, but I'm sure you're willing to extrapolate that picture into meaning something really significant.
That there’s a reasonable expectation he has real interest in the U of I. Controversial take, I know.
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JFC you talk about reading comprehension. I never “compared” them to Illinois. Surprised Spark doesn’t see the point I was making, not surprised you don’t. I merely made the point that as Illinoisans we take notice of even the shitty programs if they are doing well. You are doing some quality ankle-biting today. Keep it up.
Wut?
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JFC you talk about reading comprehension. I never “compared” them to Illinois. Surprised Spark doesn’t see the point I was making, not surprised you don’t. I merely made the point that as Illinoisans we take notice of even the shitty programs if they are doing well. You are doing some quality ankle-biting today. Keep it up.
Actually you did compare them to Illinois.
How dare you levy such harsh criticisms. Did NU and DePaul not miss on him, too?
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JFC you talk about reading comprehension. I never “compared” them to Illinois. Surprised Spark doesn’t see the point I was making, not surprised you don’t. I merely made the point that as Illinoisans we take notice of even the shitty programs if they are doing well. You are doing some quality ankle-biting today. Keep it up.
I saw the point you were making, which was why I used your exact examples to show you were actually proving my point.
You immediately started shrieking about how I was "comparing" the programs, when in fact I simply took the schools you used as examples and used them as examples.
I also offered my own example, North Carolina, which you have yet to even acknowledge. You didn't mind me "comparing" us to them.
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Actually you did compare them to Illinois.
Come on, you know that was when he was trying to pretend that's what I was saying. He was not saying that.
Was it dishonest to pretend I was doing that? Yeah, of course. But don't pretend that's Tempo "comparing" the programs. That's the same stupid shit he's doing to me.
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That there’s a reasonable expectation he has real interest in the U of I. Controversial take, I know.
Never said it was controversial at all, another thing you made up.
I have said, in fact, that it sounds like he did.
I simply don't know why that 'real interest' hasn't panned out, and neither do you. We can speculate as to why, which you've done all day, or we can admit we simply don't know and don't have any way to know, which I've done all day.
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Come on, you know that was when he was trying to pretend that's what I was saying. He was not saying that.
Was it dishonest to pretend I was doing that? Yeah, of course. But don't pretend that's Tempo "comparing" the programs. That's the same stupid shit he's doing to me.
The first mention was his comment: "Did NU and DePaul not miss on him, too?" The "too" part refers to Illinois.
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Actually you did compare them to Illinois.
Yeah, that one’s called satire.
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Yeah, that one’s called satire.
Spark obviously did not get it then.
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The first mention was his comment: "Did NU and DePaul not miss on him, too?" The "too" part refers to Illinois.
Nah, the first mention was to say that he follows those schools peripherally because he's from Chicagoland.
It was in relation to RayJ surely having people around him that follow Illinois basketball at least peripherally.
That's why I used his exact examples - he follows Northwestern basketball peripherally, but that wouldn't affect his kid's transfer decision if it were between Northwestern and some other school with less scope or brand visibility. However, that's very different than this situation with RayJ and Illinois, because of the relative strength of the programs I guess. He thinks the fact that RayJ probably had people around him that were into the Dee Brown team when he was a toddler means it's fair to assume he should've been ours, and that's different than the Northwestern/DePaul situation he brought up because it's Illinois.
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Spark obviously did not get it then.
Er, yeah, he did. You didn't though.
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Come on, you know that was when he was trying to pretend that's what I was saying. He was not saying that.
Was it dishonest to pretend I was doing that? Yeah, of course. But don't pretend that's Tempo "comparing" the programs. That's the same stupid shit he's doing to me.
Hilarious. You’ve misrepresented what I say and hyperbolized it over and over. And that’s just in the past few pages.
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Hilarious. You’ve misrepresented what I say and hyperbolized it over and over. And that’s just in the past few pages.
Sorry for defending you, I guess.
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Nah, the first mention was to say that he follows those schools peripherally because he's from Chicagoland.
It was in relation to RayJ surely having people around him that follow Illinois basketball at least peripherally.
That's why I used his exact examples - he follows Northwestern basketball peripherally, but that wouldn't affect his kid's transfer decision if it were between Northwestern and some other school with less scope or brand visibility. However, that's very different than this situation with RayJ and Illinois, because of the relative strength of the programs I guess. He thinks the fact that RayJ probably had people around him that were into the Dee Brown team when he was a toddler means it's fair to assume he should've been ours, and that's different than the Northwestern/DePaul situation he brought up because it's Illinois.
That was his first mention of DePaul.
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Nah, the first mention was to say that he follows those schools peripherally because he's from Chicagoland.
It was in relation to RayJ surely having people around him that follow Illinois basketball at least peripherally.
That's why I used his exact examples - he follows Northwestern basketball peripherally, but that wouldn't affect his kid's transfer decision if it were between Northwestern and some other school with less scope or brand visibility. However, that's very different than this situation with RayJ and Illinois, because of the relative strength of the programs I guess. He thinks the fact that RayJ probably had people around him that were into the Dee Brown team when he was a toddler means it's fair to assume he should've been ours, and that's different than the Northwestern/DePaul situation he brought up because it's Illinois.
Careful with the word “should’ve.” As I said previously, toe stubbings happen. Doesn’t mean no one sees them, they aren’t painful or embarrassing. And god forbid Underwood get even a tiny bit of criticism over losing a local kid whose never played at a high major.
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That was his first mention of DePaul.
No, it wasn't.
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No, it wasn't.
Then pull the quote. According to the Search function, that was his first mention of "DePaul" in connection with this guy. Before that, he used the term 'local teams." You made a comment, then he compared Illinois to NU and DePaul on missing out on this guy.
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Sorry for defending you, I guess.
That post to PAMan you got 100% right.
Are you really going to dismiss that you seem a little sensitive to criticism of Underwood or the program?
You don’t think losing out on a suburban kid you could desperately use whose never even played at a high major is cause for even a slight temporary bit of embarrassment?
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Sorry for defending you, I guess.
Would've thought you learned this lesson already.
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You seriously seem to think even the slightest criticisms equal pitchfork screams to fire the coach.
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You seriously seem to think even the slightest criticisms equal pitchfork screams to fire the coach.
He's a big fan of Regular Season B1G Title banners.
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Careful with the word “should’ve.” As I said previously, toe stubbings happen. Doesn’t mean no one sees them, they aren’t painful or embarrassing. And god forbid Underwood get even a tiny bit of criticism over losing a local kid whose never played at a high major.
By all means, criticize Underwood for missing a kid he spent a ton of time and resources on, that's totally fair.
The idea that he deserves extra criticism because the kid's from Oswego and has been at a mid-major is what I took issue with, because that's silly and is based entirely on an assumption that an Oswego kid must have some kind of special fondness for Illinois basketball - even though Illinois basketball has been mediocre as hell for most of his life.
I will say, I worked in a high school athletic department during the Groce era. Even had one of our kids play at Illinois. I did not notice any particular affinity among the kids for Illinois basketball. A few of them followed it; most didn't anymore. The big basketball heads I knew followed a little, but they were more into the teams in the tournament every year - the Kansas' and Kentuckys and Gonzagas. Obviously a big difference from when I was in high school. But it makes some kind of sense - Illinois has not been good during these kids' lives until very recently.
You look at this from the perspective of someone from your background and never consider that maybe someone who DIDN'T come of age in the 80's and 90's would view Illinois basketball quite differently than you do.
From the time RayJ Dennis was 5 years old until we hired Underwood when he was 16, Illinois made the NCAA tournament three times. He almost certainly does not remember Illinois ever being in the Sweet 16. That's a very, very different program than the one you and I were looking at when we were 16.
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That post to PAMan you got 100% right.
Are you really going to dismiss that you seem a little sensitive to criticism of Underwood or the program?
You don’t think losing out on a suburban kid you could desperately use whose never even played at a high major is cause for even a slight temporary bit of embarrassment?
Especially when he was, allegedly, offered more money to play here?
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Would've thought you learned this lesson already.
Ooooh, you got that ankle good that time! Sick ‘em boy!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cxj5RF2J/E8289124-30-A1-403-E-95-A4-B243-B1-F76-B03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1jgPdgs)
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You seriously seem to think even the slightest criticisms equal pitchfork screams to fire the coach.
Nope, but no matter what I say you're going to tell me what I think and argue with that anyway so have at it.
I even think Underwood deserves criticism for this - will deserve a lot if we don't pull a solid backup option. I just don't agree with your reasons to criticize him.
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The big basketball heads I knew followed a little, but they were more into the teams in the tournament every year - the Kansas' and Kentuckys and Gonzagas.
***
From the time RayJ Dennis was 5 years old until we hired Underwood when he was 16, Illinois made the NCAA tournament three times. He almost certainly does not remember Illinois ever being in the Sweet 16...
You don't say.....
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That post to PAMan you got 100% right.
Are you really going to dismiss that you seem a little sensitive to criticism of Underwood or the program?
You don’t think losing out on a suburban kid you could desperately use whose never even played at a high major is cause for even a slight temporary bit of embarrassment?
I have said since the very first post on this, I think it's pretty shitty any time a coach loses a kid he put a ton of time and resources into. I don't think how bad it is depends on what school he's transferring from or where he went to high school. If we'd spent the same amount of resources on a kid who grew up in Los Angeles and played last year at Duke and he went to Utah, it would feel the exact same as if RayJ does.
What sucks is that we put a lot of eggs in the basket of a talented kid and it seems like he isn't going to play for us. Beyond that, I can't really make a judgment because of the large amount of information and context I'd need to discern why he might make that decision, I (and you) have exactly 0 of it.
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Ooooh, you got that ankle good that time! Sick ‘em boy!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cxj5RF2J/E8289124-30-A1-403-E-95-A4-B243-B1-F76-B03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1jgPdgs)
He already knows how disingenuous you are, yet he keeps playing it straight instead of just telling you that you are an idiot.
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If you think people in the basketball world (coaches, AAU people, reporters etc not just “fans”) aren’t looking at a Rayj situation and thinking “oh man, that’s gotta hurt…” you aren’t living in the real world. The landscape is not as homogenized as you are pretending it is. There is definitely a correlation between where a kid grows up and where he might want to play. It doesn’t mean that correlation is 100% predictive. It’s not even close to that. But it’s there and it’s often a factor.
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If you think people in the basketball world (coaches, AAU people, reporters etc not just “fans”) aren’t looking at a Rayj situation and thinking “oh man, that’s gotta hurt…” you aren’t living in the real world. The landscape is not as homogenized as you are pretending it is. There is definitely a correlation between where a kid grows up and where he might want to play. It doesn’t mean that correlation is 100% predictive. It’s not even close to that.
Of course it hurts. We spent a ton of time and effort recruiting him.
It doesn't hurt more because he went to HS in Oswego or played at a couple mid-majors, though.
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He already knows how disingenuous you are, yet he keeps playing it straight instead of just telling you that you are an idiot.
And yet he continuously calls you an idiot. Maybe he’s just a super truth teller.
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And yet he continuously calls you an idiot. Maybe he’s just a super truth teller.
Appears to be his character flaw.
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Of course it hurts. We spent a ton of time and effort recruiting him.
It doesn't hurt more because he went to HS in Oswego or played at a couple mid-majors, though.
Yes it does. I guarantee you people in the high school/college/AAU business in Illinois notice it and say “oh, man…”
Again, that’s not a carrying a pitchfork outside of Ubben take.
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Yes it does. I guarantee you people in the high school/college/AAU business in Illinois notice it and say “oh, man…”
Again, that’s not a carrying a pitchfork outside of Ubben take.
How many people do you know in the HS/college/AAU business in Illinois?
Do you really think they, any time a kid from Illinois chooses to play elsewhere when UI wanted them, think "wow that's a bad look"? Can say in my experience that isn't really the way those folks think. Some of them might, but I never heard that sort of thinking in my time interacting with 'connected' Illinois HS basketball people.
Had you ever heard of RayJ Dennis before, say, a month ago?
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I’ve heard guys like Bardo, Gill, and Battle talk about it often. They know and understand the landscape pretty well, I’d think. I’d be shocked if they think this is exactly the same as losing out on a kid from Connecticut.
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Guarantee you Dee Brown and Ayo think Illinois should be at an advantage with local kids.
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Guarantee you Dee Brown and Ayo think Illinois should be at an advantage with local kids.
And yet..
Maybe you're right. Maybe you aren't. You can guarantee anything you'd like.
I'm sure Dee and Ayo want that to be true. It seems like it was mostly true for them, ignoring that Dee almost left a couple times. I don't know that that means it is true though.
And those are people associated with Illinois basketball. Of course they'd be disappointed. They're Illini fans.
But not everyone in Illinois is. I knew a number of people involved in HS basketball in Illinois who specifically didn't like Illini basketball, as a matter of fact.
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Again…please understand that “be at an advantage” doesn’t mean “You get ‘em every time!”
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And yet..
Maybe you're right. Maybe you aren't. You can guarantee anything you'd like.
I'm sure Dee and Ayo want that to be true. It seems like it was mostly true for them, ignoring that Dee almost left a couple times. I don't know that that means it is true though.
And those are people associated with Illinois basketball. Of course they'd be disappointed. They're Illini fans.
But not everyone in Illinois is.
But you are completely ignoring that the “pull” to play for the state program is often a very real thing. It doesn’t mean every kid dreams of playing for the state school. But I can only assume because he visited, Rayj was fairly interested…
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Again…please understand that “be at an advantage” doesn’t mean “You get ‘em every time!”
But apparently it does mean when you don't get them, it's particularly bad.
Rather than saying "oh, well I guess the Illini brand didn't resonate with this kid particularly and you don't get 'em every time" you said "he surely has people around him and thinks of Illinois basketball fondly being from Oswego, so it's a bad look for him to go elsewhere."
To me the worst 'look' of the whole thing is we went all in on this kid and other schools seemed to hop into the recruitment late.
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But you are completely ignoring that the “pull” to play for the state program is often a very real thing. It doesn’t mean every kid dreams of playing for the state school. But I can only assume because he visited, Rayj was fairly interested…
Hahaha, we've had TONS of kids visit who weren't all that interested.
And it didn't matter, because we didn't want RayJ at all until now.
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Sparky’s argument that Illinois has no localized recruiting advantage is just another excuse making mechanism to absolve Underwood from responsibility.
Go ask an actual succcessful coach, Bret Bielema, how important in state recruiting is and how their staff prioritizes it in comparison to Lovie.
Underwood is a loser.
Sparky is a loser.
And they both are going to be gone soon.
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But apparently it does mean when you don't get them, it's particularly bad.
Rather than saying "oh, well I guess the Illini brand didn't resonate with this kid particularly and you don't get 'em every time" you said "he surely has people around him and thinks of Illinois basketball fondly being from Oswego, so it's a bad look for him to go elsewhere."
To me the worst 'look' of the whole thing is we went all in on this kid and other schools seemed to hop into the recruitment late.
Apparently the stubbed toe analogy didn’t sink in with you
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Sparky’s argument that Illinois has no localized recruiting advantage is just another excuse making mechanism to absolve Underwood from responsibility.
Go ask an actual succcessful coach, Bret Bielema, how important in state recruiting is and how their staff prioritizes it in comparison to Lovie.
I have to agree with you here. Maybe times are different, and the “pull” isn’t what it might have once been; but it exists. That can’t be denied. Or shouldn’t be, anyway.
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But it’s “stupid” to pretend recruiting a kid from Illinois is different from recruiting a kid from Tennessee or Georgia.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vHscZ4X4/02-C1-C082-9-C0-B-43-D5-BA72-93-C7-D8-F42905.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nWJ8NDG)
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But it’s “stupid” to pretend recruiting a kid from Illinois is different from recruiting a kid from Tennessee or Georgia.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vHscZ4X4/02-C1-C082-9-C0-B-43-D5-BA72-93-C7-D8-F42905.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nWJ8NDG)
Would you have preferred BIelema to say they we're going to continue the poor relationship with Illinois HS programs ?
And plenty of recruits take their max visits, which can include schools they have no interest in.
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Would you have preferred BIelema to say they we're going to continue the poor relationship with Illinois HS programs ?
And plenty of recruits take their max visits, which can include schools they have no interest in.
24 > 4
He did more than “say it,” he followed up on it.
I’m sure there are plenty of high school juniors who take visits to schools they don’t think they’ll commit to. I’d be surprised if a coveted 22 year old transfer is wasting his time making the home state school feel good about themselves for a few hours.
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And yet..
Maybe you're right. Maybe you aren't. You can guarantee anything you'd like.
I'm sure Dee and Ayo want that to be true. It seems like it was mostly true for them, ignoring that Dee almost left a couple times. I don't know that that means it is true though.
And those are people associated with Illinois basketball. Of course they'd be disappointed. They're Illini fans.
But not everyone in Illinois is. I knew a number of people involved in HS basketball in Illinois who specifically didn't like Illini basketball, as a matter of fact.
I’ve tried over and over to explain this. To no avail. Dee Brown and Ayo could have gone anywhere. But they chose Illinois, partly because Illinois has appeal to local kids. Again, that doesn’t mean every local kid is a slam dunk; even the Rayj’s of the world.
It’s like holding a good hand in poker and getting beat on the river. It happens. You get beat, lick your wounds and try again.
At no point have I ever tried to say local kids should be slam dunks to commit to Illinois. Never. As in never ever ever.
And sure, there are people who actively dislike Illinois. But they probably aren’t going on recruiting visits there, especially at 22 years old.
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I’ve tried over and over to explain this. To no avail. Dee Brown and Ayo could have gone anywhere. But they chose Illinois, partly because Illinois has appeal to local kids. Again, that doesn’t mean every local kid is a slam dunk; even the Rayj’s of the world.
It’s like holding a good hand in poker and getting beat on the river. It happens. You get beat, lick your wounds and try again.
At no point have I ever tried to say local kids should be slam dunks to commit to Illinois. Never. As in never ever ever.
And sure, there are people who actively dislike Illinois. But they probably aren’t going on recruiting visits there, especially at 22 years old.
It’s quite clear to me that you’d be shocked at some of the shit that happens in high major basketball and football recruiting..
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Perhaps, but I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of recruits actually have an interest in the school when they go on recruiting visits. Especially 22 year olds.
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Well, to repeat something I've had to say about 25 times so far in this discussion:
if I see someone who thinks RayJ wasn't interested in Illinois, I'll let them know you think that.
You're arguing against that point, but no one seems to be making it.
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24 > 4
He did more than “say it,” he followed up on it.
It's not as tho he reinvented the wheel. Indiana and Purdue have 31 and 32 players from Indiana and 4 each from Illinois.
A working relationship with the state HS programs is a basic job requirement. Pitching 'you're from Illinois so you should come to Illinois' isn't going to get the staff in the kid's front door.
You still have to have something to offer. And also having a staff to coach up the 3 stars helps. Next target is the Illinois 4 stars and 5 stars that go to the Michigans and Notre Dames.
24 > 4 says more about Lovie than Bielema.
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if I see someone who thinks RayJ wasn't interested in Illinois, I'll let them know you think that.
Wut
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It's not as tho he reinvented the wheel. Indiana and Purdue have 31 and 32 players from Indiana and 4 each from Illinois.
A working relationship with the state HS programs is a basic job requirement. Pitching 'you're from Illinois so you should come to Illinois' isn't going to get the staff in the kid's front door.
You still have to have something to offer. And also having a staff to coach up the 3 stars helps. Next target is the Illinois 4 stars and 5 stars that go to the Michigans and Notre Dames.
24 > 4 says more about Lovie than Bielema.
Who are you arguing with?
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Quick look into the Utah staff of coaches, reveals absolutely no on on staff currently that has ties to Toledo, Oswego, etc....interesting enough there is a coach from Effingham Il on the staff though.
All coaches have been on staff for at least 2 years up to 12 I think.
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Not looking good for Doms "insider source" that Mazzulla is leaving the NBA to be the new coach
🙄
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someone throwing a fit on loyalty about hot girls being posted and it's making him uncomfortable
lol
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Curiosity got the better of me and I hopped over there. What’s with all the same recruiting threads?
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Curiosity got the better of me and I hopped over there. What’s with all the same recruiting threads?
Maybe Dan started the holiday weekend early? :o
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someone throwing a fit on loyalty about hot girls being posted and it's making him uncomfortable
lol
EWWWWWWWWWWWWW GIRLS......lmao
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Curiosity got the better of me and I hopped over there. What’s with all the same recruiting threads?
They start a new one I think when the ongoing one becomes ridiculously off track, too critical of anyone on team or staff or the insiders, or too long.
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Curiosity got the better of me and I hopped over there. What’s with all the same recruiting threads?
Dan closes threads when they go excessively sideways and stars new ones.
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If I tried to do that here I would need to quit my job
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If I tried to do that here I would need to quit my job
Or ban the primary offenders. Then there would be nobody left.
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If I tried to do that here I would need to quit my job
I think that’s our one unifying trait. We all love threads that have nothing to do with the thread title.
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I think that’s our one unifying trait. We all love threads that have nothing to do with the thread title.
A lot like Led Zepplin song titles.
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I hope Mazzulla got some support there tonight. And that company three men and a truck cause kinda looking like next stop Illinois.
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Looks like they don't know everything
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But also looks like they got 2 of the 3 targets correct, yeah?
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But also looks like they got 2 of the 3 targets correct, yeah?
sating Hawkins and Shannon were coming back wasn't some insightful breaking news. Who actually THOUGHT they would stay in the draft?
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sating Hawkins and Shannon were coming back wasn't some insightful breaking news. Who actually THOUGHT they would stay in the draft?
I actually thought TSJ would probably stay in. Glad he is back. My favorite Illini last year.
Hawkins was no where near ready to go.
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sating Hawkins and Shannon were coming back wasn't some insightful breaking news. Who actually THOUGHT they would stay in the draft?
Well, a lot of people thought they might. They thought they might, in fact.
We had somebody here willing to bet their posting rights on it.
It's easy to criticize someone when you hammer them when they're wrong and ignore when they're right, but that's not very intelligent behavior.
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It's easy to criticize someone when you hammer them when they're wrong and ignore when they're right, but that's not very intelligent behavior.
Jasn88Cub, don't let Spark bully you since he chased away Dom! Like Matt Nagy, "Be You" Jasn!
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Jasn88Cub, don't let Spark bully you since he chased away Dom! Like Matt Nagy, "Be You" Jasn!
brother i aint leaving
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He's at least smart enough not to bet on the stupid shit he says.
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Now they are saying that Mulcahy is in play.
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Now they are saying that Mulcahy is in play.
who isn't in play at this point?
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Now they are saying that Mulcahy is in play.
Well supposedly he is entering the portal.
And we could use a PG that is eligible and not injured.
Lol.
Love Mulcahy.
Hope it works out
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Mulcahy would be way, way too close to the best case scenario for me to even consider getting excited about.
Would be a massive get, bigger IMO than RayJ would’ve been. I’m not counting on it.
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Mulcahy would be way, way too close to the best case scenario for me to even consider getting excited about.
Would be a massive get, bigger IMO than RayJ would’ve been. I’m not counting on it.
Agree. The guy is a stud and has a high BB IQ. We would be Top 20 with him.
Have no idea if we have any chance.
Really hope the Williams kid is eligible and can practice this summer sometime.
And Harmon is still a question mark.
Need less constant drama around PG. Staff need to get on top of this.
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Agree. The guy is a stud and has a high BB IQ. We would be Top 20 with him.
Have no idea if we have any chance.
Really hope the Williams kid is eligible and can practice this summer sometime.
And Harmon is still a question mark.
Need less constant drama around PG. Staff need to get on top of this.
Can all but guarantee he goes to an east coast school or notre dame or something
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Mulcahy is in the portal now. This oughta be fun. For somebody.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1667157331791040515?s=20
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Mulcahy is in the portal now. This oughta be fun. For somebody.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1667157331791040515?s=20
Out of the "known" schools to be landing spots, Illinois imo or Notre Dame make the most sense. If Illinois and NIL is focused on helping charity, then I think Mulcahy ends up choosing us. The school that helps the charity will get alot of consideration from him I believe.
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Huge list of schools supposedly interested.
Big hitters.
We don't win these types of battles.
I think UWood's anger management issue is a liability here.
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Huge list of schools supposedly interested.
Big hitters.
We don't win these types of battles.
I think UWood's anger management issue is a liability here.
Yes we don't win these battles, however we do have an enticing situation with guys coming back etc....I don't expect us to get him or another stud PG at this point....Shannon being point alot seems to be the way we will go again.
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Yes we don't win these battles, however we do have an enticing situation with guys coming back etc....I don't expect us to get him or another stud PG at this point....Shannon being point alot seems to be the way we will go again.
Not sure TSJ was ever the point a lot.
He is not a lead guard.
We had Thing 1 and Thing 2 at PG when Epps went out.
Both sucked.
The option is Harmon who we could live with, but there seems to be question if he is even going to show up.
Williams now seen as doubtful to be ready.
My guess is assuming we miss on this one, they add another scoring guard who can sort of dribble the ball up the court and patch it together.
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Huge list of schools supposedly interested.
Big hitters.
We don't win these types of battles.
I think UWood's anger management issue is a liability here.
He’s not going to be surprised that Underwood yells so if that’s an issue we probably won’t be involved from the beginning.
If we’re a consideration I think it’s fair to guess the anger issues wouldn’t prevent us from getting him.
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When Wilcher picks St. John's, does that cause anyone to defect?
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He’s not going to be surprised that Underwood yells so if that’s an issue we probably won’t be involved from the beginning.
If we’re a consideration I think it’s fair to guess the anger issues wouldn’t prevent us from getting him.
I think that it is a factor in all of our recruiting at this point.
Have no idea what this kid thinks of it.
It is not an asset.
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Not sure TSJ was ever the point a lot.
He is not a lead guard.
We had Thing 1 and Thing 2 at PG when Epps went out.
Both sucked.
The option is Harmon who we could live with, but there seems to be question if he is even going to show up.
Williams now seen as doubtful to be ready.
My guess is assuming we miss on this one, they add another scoring guard who can sort of dribble the ball up the court and patch it together.
The TSJ at point was more in reference as to, by default he was facilitating especially after the Clark/Epps fiasco transpired. I would think Harmon is a givin at this point, Williams will probably have to get a medical still for next year play(?). Harmon/DGL/Harris and crew handle the play this year (unless Reeves comes on board), then Williams and DGL are interchangable the following year. Experience guards with Morez coming on board.
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(https://media2.giphy.com/media/ehxiKFaeUr9nNFQcp8/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47okwslnmgt0edb9t4grz0wjzq01eny2rzh98aeq3y&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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If we land Mulcahy we would have one of the top defenses in the Country potentially. They said NIL isn't a priority. I would be throwing every dollar we have at this kid. Always loved the way he played. Reminds me a lot of a taller Arron Craft.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/rutgers-paul-mulcahy-enters-transfer-portal-here-are-5-possible-landing-spots/ar-AA1cl4FA
It's from NJ.com ....
"Illinois
The Big Ten rival has all the makings of a perfect landing spot for Mulcahy: a dire need at point guard, strong name, image and likeness (NIL) capabilities and a head coach with a history of working with transfers and adapting to the strengths of his roster.
Illinois star Coleman Hawkins ominously asked if the Illini were “going to get New Jerseys” in a tweet last week. "
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Things sound very unsettled.
Obviously very stiff compensation for Mulcahy.
Sounds like Williams will not be ready.
Harmon has transcript issues.
Still trying to get Reeves.
The backup plan is Rodgers starting at PG if nothing above goes our way.
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Apparently already moving on from Mulcahy.
He isn't interested in Illinois, and the NIL money bag men now saying they didn't want him anyway and want Reeves.
We are not seen as a leader for Reeves.
They really think Rodgers can play point until Williams is ready.
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They really think Rodgers can play point until Williams is ready.
He was 0-1 from 3 last year. That should put some fear in the defenders he's facing.
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He was 0-1 from 3 last year. That should put some fear in the defenders he's facing.
He is just a jump shot away from being a lottery pick. Get with it.
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He is just a jump shot away from being a lottery pick. Get with it.
Lol. Workin' on it. I've got time.
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He was 0-1 from 3 last year. That should put some fear in the defenders he's facing.
what was he from the free throw line?
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what was he from the free throw line?
Pretty much standard stuff for a pg, 39%.
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Pretty much standard stuff for a pg, 39%.
Just great. Will fit right in.
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Pretty much standard stuff for a pg, 39%.
Better than Harris, I'm shocked
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He was 0-1 from 3 last year. That should put some fear in the defenders he's facing.
It's June.
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Let's see where he's at on January 16th
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Let's see where he's at on January 16th
Never a bad plan.
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Entertaining day on Loyalty.
“Insiders” turning on Underwood.
He apparently not interested in Kerr.
Also refused to pursue Love.
Claims that he doesn't want to be at Illinois.
Boosters mad.
And he offered a 3 star skinny white kid. LOL.
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I thought we were Underwood’s “dream job.”
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Entertaining day on Loyalty.
“Insiders” turning on Underwood.
He apparently not interested in Kerr.
Also refused to pursue Love.
Claims that he doesn't want to be at Illinois.
Boosters mad.
And he offered a 3 star skinny white kid. LOL.
Boosters getting mad is one way to get a seat hot or 1 foot out the door.
And national tv announcers, during the broadcast, questioning our 3 pt offense and desire to turn the ball over late in the season can't be of much help.
The pg issue should have been his #1 priority.
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I thought we were Underwood’s “dream job.”
Honestly curious.
If you took over a position that had been done terribly for a decade or more, built it back and within 6 years had it consistently nationally relevant again, and the result was many people in your organization wanted you fired because you weren't good enough - wouldn't you at least kind of think "man, I can probably get paid well and have as much success elsewhere where they won't turn on me despite it"? How much would you like a job where you can build it quickly from totally irrelevant to nationally relevant and the result is you're about 50/50 to get fired?
I wouldn't blame Underwood for being kind of put off by that, I know I would be. He probably feels like he's done well here, which any objective reading of his results confirms, and instead of being lauded he's constantly under attack for it.
Like imagine you take over an Outback store that has been around the 50th percentile in sales for a decade. Within 5 years you have it humming, up to around the 90th percentile in sales. Your bosses fire you because you weren't in the 97th percentile. Would you think that was reasonable? I think most people in that scenario would be seriously considering the offer from Texas Roadhouse, who will pay you similarly and is less likely to fire you despite completely turning the franchise around.
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Spark is fightin' the good fight up in here! Love it.
Edit: Look, I, like many others whose eyes bled last year, am skeptical if this guy can move the program to the next level. But, I appreciate the lengths you have gone to keep all this into perspective. We ARE better off than pre-Underwood. No doubt.
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To me, the best case scenario by far is Underwood just breaks through into the S16 and we can stop having these discussions (LOL, kidding of course - they've already started moving the goalposts IN CASE he makes the second weekend). I do not understand the thought process that leads people to hope we start over and cross our fingers hoping the next guy can even get us to where Underwood already has us.
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Spark is fightin' the good fight up in here! Love it.
Edit: Look, I, like many others whose eyes bled last year, am skeptical if this guy can move the program to the next level. But, I appreciate the lengths you have gone to keep all this into perspective. We ARE better off than pre-Underwood. No doubt.
Nobody was particularly thrilled with last year, obviously, but if that's what the "bad years" look like under Underwood, well.. Bad years where you watch the selection show knowing you're not in it are considerably worse IMO. Obviously if that (or worse) becomes more common, no one will push back on firing a coach that hasn't been consistently good.
I'm not really sure what "the next level" is. The whinging isn't going to stop if he makes the second weekend this year, it'll just move to the next target. And if our standard is going to be "S16 or better every year," we're almost certainly not going to be that no matter who we get - because almost no one is that these days. Going consistently deep into the tournament is rarer than it's been previously, and with the portal stuff is going to be even more rare going forward. No high major team has made the last four S16s (there are five teams out of 350+ who have made the last two). Only one team total has made the last two E8's. Matter of fact, only 9 programs are on a better current tournament streak than we are (I assume most if not all of them would've also made the canceled tournament, but unsure on that).
We all want us to win a title, I'm just very dubious that firing Underwood and more than likely taking a step or two backwards is a good way forward. The Loyalty guys who want him fired are selling that we'll get Musselman or Miller, and I just sincerely doubt that's going to happen - we're far more likely to get a guy from a mid-major who had one really good year. I also think those guys are likely to be turned on just as fast during the inevitable complete rebuild.
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To me, the best case scenario by far is Underwood just breaks through into the S16 and we can stop having these discussions (LOL, kidding of course - they've already started moving the goalposts IN CASE he makes the second weekend). I do not understand the thought process that leads people to hope we start over and cross our fingers hoping the next guy can even get us to where Underwood already has us.
Well the fact of Hawk/TSJ returning along with our transfers that "seem" to fit possibly better than Mayer and the baggage he brought along....would point to us HAVING to get to a Sweet 16 this year.
2 Potential All Americans on the team this year and Goode being healthy for once, the freshman having legit game experience under there belts. This team will have HIGH expectations from everyone, themselves and fans alike.
That said, BU is not and should not be fired for what he has done so far, certainly not for the Podz miss......
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Well the fact of Hawk/TSJ returning along with our transfers that "seem" to fit possibly better than Mayer and the baggage he brought along....would point to us HAVING to get to a Sweet 16 this year.
2 Potential All Americans on the team this year and Goode being healthy for once, the freshman having legit game experience under there belts. This team will have HIGH expectations from everyone, themselves and fans alike.
That said, BU is not and should not be fired for what he has done so far, certainly not for the Podz miss......
Good post.
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Squeaky Jr. will want Underwood's pay doubled if he makes a Sweet 16.
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Will never not be funny to see the dude that agrees with “Squeaky” completely mocking him. He agrees with you, dude!
The Real Squeakies could watch Underwood make a Final Four and still have him on the hot seat if he doesn’t make it again next year.
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Squeaky Jr has quite an imagination. Every Illini fan would be thrilled with a Final 4.
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Five years ago every Illini fan would be thrilled with a conference title, but if you say you enjoyed the one we won here since then you get mocked endlessly.
There's simply no question whatsoever in my mind that the goalposts will move as soon as they are required to. A large portion of our fans watch specifically to have something to bitch about.
The 'squeaky Jr' thing couldn't more clearly be projection. Why would you mock the person who agrees with you completely? Like, he totally is on board with all your arguments. I'm sure this will be the time he's finally correct!
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I guess I have a little different take. I would like to see a solid product on the floor this coming year. Some semblance of an offense, tenacious D (not the band), NOT having long scoring droughts, then having some mad scramble to try to get back into the game. Good, consistent effort. That, would lead to less angry Brad, and the results would be there.
Last year sucked because watching the games was fucking miserable.
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Of course the "goal posts" will move. That is how things are done in life and how things get done in life. Point A to Point B. Then Point B to Point C. You just aren't content to stop at Point B (B1G Regular Season titles). You push ahead to try to attain more or do better. If we didn't push, we would still be talking on Mayberry style telephones....
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And that attitude often undercuts success, as it would've if the UConn analog to you would've gotten Hurley fired and cost them a title. Perfect is often the enemy of good, and demanding perfect while denigrating good is a pretty good way to end up bad.
I'm not and never have been saying you gotta be happy with just making the tournament forever, but it's pretty clear that more or less nothing short of being 1980-2020 Duke is going to make you stop complaining, and maybe not even that. Right now Underwood's on the 10th longest tournament streak nationally, 8th longest among high major teams. He has been a victim of a notable upset once.
This board goes on and on about Underwood being a top-15 paid coach, but only three programs on that list are on a better tournament streak than we are (MSU, Kansas, Tennessee).
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I’ll ask the Underwood haters, would you prefer Matt Painter’s results in the tourney?!
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And that attitude often undercuts success, as it would've if the UConn analog to you would've gotten Hurley fired and cost them a title. Perfect is often the enemy of good, and demanding perfect while denigrating good is a pretty good way to end up bad.
I'm not and never have been saying you gotta be happy with just making the tournament forever, but it's pretty clear that more or less nothing short of being 1980-2020 Duke is going to make you stop complaining, and maybe not even that. Right now Underwood's on the 10th longest tournament streak nationally, 8th longest among high major teams. He has been a victim of a notable upset once.
This board goes on and on about Underwood being a top-15 paid coach, but only three programs on that list are on a better tournament streak than we are (MSU, Kansas, Tennessee).
The opposite, stagnation, I guess, does what for you? You get Bruce Weber.
"victim of a notable upset"...as if he had nothing to do with it at all?
Being a consistent upper echelon program is the goal here. The issue is whether Underachiever can do that. 8 Ball says...Reply hazy, try again.
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I’ll ask the Underwood haters, would you prefer Matt Painter’s results in the tourney?!
Why, would you? Is this an either/or? I don't think it needs to be.
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Why, would you? Is this an either/or? I don't think it needs to be.
He’s a “nice guy” with epic failures in the tourney. Would you be calling for his head with his results at Illinois?!
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He’s a “nice guy” with epic failures in the tourney. Would you be calling for his head with his results at Illinois?!
Probably.
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If you think Bruce Weber built a program with similar results to Underwood's, well then no wonder you whine about him every day.
He didn't though. Weber drove the car off the bridge, and it took us a decade to hire someone who could recover it. Now that we're finally back on the road you want to put the car back in the ditch in the hopes someone can get it on the road faster next time.
No, of course he deserves blame for the upset. Absolutely, it was bad. Of course, every great coach ever has suffered an upset or three. Lou Henson had:
- a 7 seed that lost in the first round to a 10 seed
- a 5 seed that lost in the first round to a 12 seed
- a 3 seed that lost in the first round to a 14 seed
- a 3 seed that lost in the second round to a 6 seed
We named our court after him.
If being a "consistent upper echelon program" was the goal, you wouldn't spend all your time complaining about the guy who turned us from a mediocre also-ran into something pretty darn close to that.
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Probably.
Fair enough.
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Honestly curious.
If you took over a position that had been done terribly for a decade or more, built it back and within 6 years had it consistently nationally relevant again, and the result was many people in your organization wanted you fired because you weren't good enough - wouldn't you at least kind of think "man, I can probably get paid well and have as much success elsewhere where they won't turn on me despite it"? How much would you like a job where you can build it quickly from totally irrelevant to nationally relevant and the result is you're about 50/50 to get fired?
I wouldn't blame Underwood for being kind of put off by that, I know I would be. He probably feels like he's done well here, which any objective reading of his results confirms, and instead of being lauded he's constantly under attack for it.
Like imagine you take over an Outback store that has been around the 50th percentile in sales for a decade. Within 5 years you have it humming, up to around the 90th percentile in sales. Your bosses fire you because you weren't in the 97th percentile. Would you think that was reasonable? I think most people in that scenario would be seriously considering the offer from Texas Roadhouse, who will pay you similarly and is less likely to fire you despite completely turning the franchise around.
I have a feeling that most of the “fire him” heat is coming from places like here, which don’t matter.
Can someone more connected than I am give us a general pulse of the boosters? Is Underwood actually feeling real heat? I’d be a bit surprised if that’s the case. Maybe someone can shed some light on this.
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If you think Bruce Weber built a program with similar results to Underwood's, well then no wonder you whine about him every day.
He didn't though. Weber drove the car off the bridge, and it took us a decade to hire someone who could recover it. Now that we're finally back on the road you want to put the car back in the ditch in the hopes someone can get it on the road faster next time.
No, of course he deserves blame for the upset. Absolutely, it was bad. Of course, every great coach ever has suffered an upset or three. Lou Henson had:
- a 7 seed that lost in the first round to a 10 seed
- a 5 seed that lost in the first round to a 12 seed
- a 3 seed that lost in the first round to a 14 seed
- a 3 seed that lost in the second round to a 6 seed
We named our court after him.
If being a "consistent upper echelon program" was the goal, you wouldn't spend all your time complaining about the guy who turned us from a mediocre also-ran into something pretty darn close to that.
Bruce Weber didn't build anything. He was stagnant and became regresssive.
Underwood has the program back to relevance. The question is where does it go from here? Not being able to get a PG is concerning. Having valued transfers claim to have no interest in coming here is concerning. Program is at Point B. Can he get the program to Point C?
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We ARE better off than pre-Underwood. No doubt.
Even I’ve agreed with that. It’s not even debateable.
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Well the fact of Hawk/TSJ returning along with our transfers that "seem" to fit possibly better than Mayer and the baggage he brought along....would point to us HAVING to get to a Sweet 16 this year.
2 Potential All Americans on the team this year and Goode being healthy for once, the freshman having legit game experience under there belts. This team will have HIGH expectations from everyone, themselves and fans alike.
That said, BU is not and should not be fired for what he has done so far, certainly not for the Podz miss......
You are delusional. Shannon is slim outside possibility if he gets to a completely different level.
We have nobody else that will even be First Team All BT.
If you are thinking Hawkins you are crazy.
The expectations for this team right now are Top 25-30, Top 4 in BT, a 6-8 seed and hopefully play really well on first weekend and break through to S16.
It is possible. Without better game management on offense by PG role I think that will be a challenge. Maybe Rodgers and hopefully Harmon can do the job.
They should be better than last year.
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Sincerely doubt Hawkins is an all American candidate, but I think first team all conference is a good, reasonable goal for him. Very well might not get there, but he's talented and athletic enough that that should be what he's aiming at IMO.
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I have a feeling that most of the “fire him” heat is coming from places like here, which don’t matter.
Can someone more connected than I am give us a general pulse of the boosters? Is Underwood actually feeling real heat? I’d be a bit surprised if that’s the case. Maybe someone can shed some light on this.
Probably depends what you think of the Loyalty Insider crowd. They seem to think there's real heat on him.
You didn't answer the question though - in that scenario would you be open to looking elsewhere, even if Outback was your 'dream job' when you got it? I think in large part it makes sense to look at your results, see how the reactions among fans and boosters don't really match those results in any way, and think - hey, there are surely places where I can pull in 7 figures, win at a high level, and not have the fanbase waiting for one single slip up to completely turn on me. Most places outside of blue bloods don't do what we're doing now and spend most of their time trashing a guy with the type of success Underwood has had here.
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Sincerely doubt Hawkins is an all American candidate, but I think first team all conference is a good, reasonable goal for him. Very well might not get there, but he's talented and athletic enough that that should be what he's aiming at IMO.
I hope he starts to achieve his potential more. If he is first team all BT with Shannon we will be Top 15 team and have a very good season.
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Definitely. I just don't think that's like, far out of the question. Hawkins obviously has the talent and size to do it, just needs to put it together.
He very well may not, he may be inconsistent and frustrating with occasional spots of looking like an all conference guy like he did last year. But in my opinion he's talented enough that all conference first team is a very reasonable goal for him to have.
There have been like, five or six triple doubles in our 120ish year history and he had one last year. Dude obviously has a high skill level.
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You are delusional. Shannon is slim outside possibility if he gets to a completely different level.
We have nobody else that will even be First Team All BT.
If you are thinking Hawkins you are crazy.
The expectations for this team right now are Top 25-30, Top 4 in BT, a 6-8 seed and hopefully play really well on first weekend and break through to S16.
It is possible. Without better game management on offense by PG role I think that will be a challenge. Maybe Rodgers and hopefully Harmon can do the job.
They should be better than last year.
Weak draft = Weak All American class. TSJ is easily a pre-season All American. Hawk is a stretch for sure....but talent (projected) will also easily make people think we are a failure if no Sweet 16 this year.
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I'll be surprised if TSJ is a pre-season all American. Edey's back, Tyler Kolek is back, Abmas is back, Bacot is back.
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I have a feeling that most of the “fire him” heat is coming from places like here, which don’t matter.
Can someone more connected than I am give us a general pulse of the boosters? Is Underwood actually feeling real heat? I’d be a bit surprised if that’s the case. Maybe someone can shed some light on this.
I think that he is certainly feeling under pressure to perform better in tourney. As much as this board despises Loyalty- I think it is a reasonable snapshot of the fanbase and booster spectrum, good and bad, and he is feeling some heat.
Last season was really a miserable basketball product despite making the NCAA, and his behavior on the sidelines was a total embarrassment.
The off season roster building was decent and the return of TSJ and Hawkins was a real plus.
Missing on any legit PG which by Underwood's own plan was their number one priority was a very public failure and the boosters were heavily marketed to put together the NIL package.
These rich guys expect results when they put their money down.
I do think UW believes the fanbase and boosters are not appreciative that he has brought the program back to at least a competitive respectable level.
I don't think he is a guy that takes criticism well. He has a lot of Fran redass in him.
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It's hard to know whether he takes valid criticism well, because the people wanting to fire him despite his record here's criticisms are mostly wild stretches or short-sighted thinking. They very well may win out; it doesn't make the constant criticism of a guy who has objectively done a pretty damn good job here any more reasonable though. If they do win out they better be right; it'll be a bummer if we slide back into the Weber/Groce days because we jumped the gun and quickly fired the guy who finally brought us back. And I think that's easily as likely, probably more likely, than hiring a replacement whose results are notably better. It took us three tries to get back to being a consistent tournament team, and we were selling a very different product at the beginning of that than we had to sell to Underwood.
He seemed to take the blame for the Loyola loss reasonably well - easily the moment of his tenure most worthy of criticism.
He has surely discovered that our rabid fanbase cuts both ways; it's awesome that in a tourney with UCLA and Texas etc. we are easily the most represented. It sucks that we so quickly turn on our own.
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It's hard to know whether he takes valid criticism well, because the people wanting to fire him despite his record here's criticisms are mostly wild stretches or short-sighted thinking. They very well may win out; it doesn't make the constant criticism of a guy who has objectively done a pretty damn good job here any more reasonable though. If they do win out they better be right; it'll be a bummer if we slide back into the Weber/Groce days because we jumped the gun and quickly fired the guy who finally brought us back. And I think that's easily as likely, probably more likely, than hiring a replacement whose results are notably better. It took us three tries to get back to being a consistent tournament team, and we were selling a very different product at the beginning of that than we had to sell to Underwood.
He seemed to take the blame for the Loyola loss reasonably well - easily the moment of his tenure most worthy of criticism.
He has surely discovered that our rabid fanbase cuts both ways; it's awesome that in a tourney with UCLA and Texas etc. we are easily the most represented. It sucks that we so quickly turn on our own.
I think it is similar to most fanbases. I think this past year really hurt the perception of his competence.
He needs to bounce back with a prepared motivated team this year.
I do think we will be better. How much depends on a lot of intangibles and team culture issues which arguably were his calling card.
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The huge, huge majority of fanbases would laugh at the notion of firing somebody with the results relative to what he inherited that Underwood has. It wouldn't even be a discussion whether firing someone who took over a program that had made 3 tournaments in 10 years and then had 4 tourney teams in his first 6 years was reasonable in 90% of programs. As I mentioned earlier, only 9 programs (6, I think I said 7 earlier, from high major programs) have made more consecutive tournaments than us right now. Our results rank highly nationally, no doubt, just haven't had success in the single elimination tournament.
The Kansas' and Kentuckys and UNC's of the world probably would, but most other schools would not. Worth noting that Kentucky and UNC have both missed tournaments since we did though.
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The huge, huge majority of fanbases would laugh at the notion of firing somebody with the results relative to what he inherited that Underwood has. It wouldn't even be a discussion whether firing someone who took over a program that had made 3 tournaments in 10 years and then had 4 tourney teams in his first 6 years was reasonable in 90% of programs. As I mentioned earlier, only 9 programs (6, I think I said 7 earlier, from high major programs) have made more consecutive tournaments than us right now. Our results rank highly nationally, no doubt, just haven't had success in the single elimination tournament.
The Kansas' and Kentuckys and UNC's of the world probably would, but most other schools would not. Worth noting that Kentucky and UNC have both missed tournaments since we did though.
I think it is very real possibility that he and Illinois will mutually part ways if he has another first round loss. And I do not think anyone would laugh or really even notice it.
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If so, I think there's probably about a 5% chance we get someone who is obviously better right away, and about a 30-35% chance we get someone who eventually improves on Underwood's results.
It's why I think it'd be an impressively silly and short-sighted move to push him out.
If making the tournament every year was easy, all the best coaches and programs would do it. They do not.
I'm actually curious - would you feel better about Underwood if he'd made the S16 with the Ayo team and then missed the next two tournaments?
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I'll be surprised if TSJ is a pre-season all American. Edey's back, Tyler Kolek is back, Abmas is back, Bacot is back.
Fair enough but I did state potential?
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You said he was, and I quote, "easily a pre-season All American".
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Weak draft = Weak All American class. TSJ is easily a pre-season All American. Hawk is a stretch for sure....but talent (projected) will also easily make people think we are a failure if no Sweet 16 this year.
I don't think anyone has us picked as a 4 seed or expects a S16 team right now.
The angst among the fanbase and media and boosters is because we are a longshot to be really good without a legit PG and we are wasting the fortuitous return of two veteran starters.
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By no means do I think a top-4 seed or S16 is out of the question with the talent we have. By talent we're closer to a top-15 team than a not-in-the-tournament team IMO.
Lunardi currently has us as a 5 seed.
I definitely don't think we're a longshot to be very good. We may not, could easily fall apart like it did last year, but I think it's more likely we're a top-4 seed than not in the tournament.
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If so, I think there's probably about a 5% chance we get someone who is obviously better right away, and about a 30-35% chance we get someone who eventually improves on Underwood's results.
It's why I think it'd be an impressively silly and short-sighted move to push him out.
If making the tournament every year was easy, all the best coaches and programs would do it. They do not.
I'm actually curious - would you feel better about Underwood if he'd made the S16 with the Ayo team and then missed the next two tournaments?
Not really. Missing two years in a row after Ayo and I think he would likely already be gone.
Reality is he is 4-7 in the NCAA's and never has won two games in a row. I realize the tourney has some amount of luck and matchup element, but when you have a sample size of 7 and he can't find a way to win he may just not be a guy that can do it.
He will get another shot this year and if he wins first round another year is my guess.
Loses first round this year and he is gone and it will not even be a story. People will expect it.
We move on.
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By no means do I think a top-4 seed or S16 is out of the question with the talent we have. By talent we're closer to a top-15 team than a not-in-the-tournament team IMO.
Lunardi currently has us as a 5 seed.
I definitely don't think we're a longshot to be very good. We may not, could easily fall apart like it did last year, but I think it's more likely we're a top-4 seed than not in the tournament.
They will make the tourney. If they are a Top 16 team at end of year they will either have added a legit PG this summer, or somebody has a huge breakout year (Hawkins,Dainja,Rodgers, DGL). We are 36 in Torvik as we speak.
That is about right IMO. We should trend higher if staff can get them playing together.
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Not really. Missing two years in a row after Ayo and I think he would likely already be gone.
Reality is he is 4-7 in the NCAA's and never has won two games in a row. I realize the tourney has some amount of luck and matchup element, but when you have a sample size of 7 and he can't find a way to win he may just not be a guy that can do it.
He will get another shot this year and if he wins first round another year is my guess.
Loses first round this year and he is gone and it will not even be a story. People will expect it.
We move on.
3 of those 7 came at Stephen F Austin. Would be pretty hard to hold "only won one game as a 12 seed, and one game as a 14 seed" against him IMO. He also had a pretty darn good team here year 3 that was playing great basketball before the tournament got canceled. It's an exceedingly tiny sample size, essentially three games out of the ~330 D1 games he's coached, that we're criticizing him for. And he was an underdog in two of them. I don't really buy the notion of "he can't do it". It's mostly a crapshoot - both losing in the tournament AND winning in the tournament. Injuries, matchups, form, seeding, etc. all play into it. Obviously building talented rosters plays into it too (although not as much as fans tend to attribute to that), but Underwood's done that pretty darn well.
Yes, if he loses in the first round he'll probably be gone. Just hope this time it isn't another 5+ years before we make it back, which I think is far, far more likely than the people who want him gone are acting like it is.
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They will make the tourney. If they are a Top 16 team at end of year they will either have added a legit PG this summer, or somebody has a huge breakout year (Hawkins,Dainja,Rodgers, DGL). We are 36 in Torvik as we speak.
That is about right IMO. We should trend higher if staff can get them playing together.
I don't trust Lunardi much, but he obviously disagrees with you - a 5 seed is a top-20 team. The notion that it'd be some huge surprise if we were a 4 seed just isn't true. No one outside of the Hulka Sucks crowd will be surprised if a team with as much talent as we'll have finishes as a top-16 team in seeding.
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I do not believe that the angst is based SOLELY on tournament results. The guy has the ass during games. He cannot get a PG, despite all the alleged NIL money. He has tried his gimmick defense twice and had to abandon it. The offense has looked Weber and Groce-ish at times.
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I don't think anyone has us picked as a 4 seed or expects a S16 team right now.
The angst among the fanbase and media and boosters is because we are a longshot to be really good without a legit PG and we are wasting the fortuitous return of two veteran starters.
I would think reasonable people are wondering why he cannot close the deal on a PG given the NIL potential here.
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You didn't answer the question though - in that scenario would you be open to looking elsewhere, even if Outback was your 'dream job' when you got it? I think in large part it makes sense to look at your results, see how the reactions among fans and boosters don't really match those results in any way, and think - hey, there are surely places where I can pull in 7 figures, win at a high level, and not have the fanbase waiting for one single slip up to completely turn on me. Most places outside of blue bloods don't do what we're doing now and spend most of their time trashing a guy with the type of success Underwood has had here.
Question: What if the person running The Outback was incompetent and a competent person could get the 7 figure result given the location of said The Outback?
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Is that really what you think happened here?
Just drop any ole average coach in here and he'd have won 70% of his conference games in the last three years?
I do not agree with that at all.
I think Underwood's lack of winning in March is a legitimate criticism, but to pretend he hasn't done anything any average coach wouldn't have done - I just totally disagree with that.
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Is that really what you think happened here?
Just drop any ole average coach in here and he'd have won 70% of his conference games in the last three years?
I do not agree with that at all.
I think Underwood's lack of winning in March is a legitimate criticism, but to pretend he hasn't done anything any average coach wouldn't have done - I just totally disagree with that.
I think that is part of it, yes. I think Illinois made 2 really, really, really bad hires. I think Underachiever knows how to play the game. Like Lou did at the time.
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Wow
Imagine the monumental mismanagement this program's had for the huge majority of the last 100 years if any average coach could come here and win this much because we're Illinois
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Wow
Imagine the monumental mismanagement this program's had for the huge majority of the last 100 years if any average coach could come here and win this much because we're Illinois
It is truly shocking.
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Such a sleeping giant that it's never woken up in 120 years!
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Such a sleeping giant that it's never woken up in 120 years!
Are you referring to Illinois Basketball?
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Are you referring to Illinois Basketball?
Yeah, seems odd. Is he venturing into ASU territory?
Not sure it would even apply to football....RidetheGrange!
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We have had multiple chances to break through and be national but something stops us
The Deon Thomas scandal
Self leaving
Weber not breaking through
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We have had multiple chances to break through and be national but something stops us
The Deon Thomas scandal
Self leaving
Weber not breaking through
Loyola
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Loyola
Lol, but it was a cooperative effort.
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Lol, but it was a cooperative effort.
Absolutely no chance there....NUN!
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Loyola
Timeless classic....unfortunately.
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I didn't put loyola because I don't know if it would have broken us though. I don't know.
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I didn't put loyola because I don't know if it would have broken us though. I don't know.
Did you mean "broken us though" or 'broken us through' ?
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Indy Illini Fan is an interesting character. He claims the likes Sean Miller, Matt "Paint" Painter, Brad Underwood, John Whitman, Bill Self and unnamed B1G assistants as not just sources, but close personal friends that call him for advice. He does not like it when posters disagree with him. His reactions are to either ridicule or ignore. He is never wrong. When he is wrong, he pivots and acts like he knew all along. 0440 usually defers, Lville will disagree with him.
That said, he knows stuff, he is not just parroting the pay sites. He has some contacts.
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I do not believe that the angst is based SOLELY on tournament results. The guy has the ass during games. He cannot get a PG, despite all the alleged NIL money. He has tried his gimmick defense twice and had to abandon it. The offense has looked Weber and Groce-ish at times.
His preferred primary defense, iirc, would be half court man pressure. The concept, in simple terms, is to put a lot pressure on the ball and force TOs leading to transition offense. Bob Knight, Coach K and others used it at times. It requires the right personnel and depth.
The other gimmick was jump switching screens at all 5 positions.
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Are you referring to Illinois Basketball?
Apparently! PAMan thinks you can just drop any ol' average coach in here and he'll take us from a mediocre non-tournament program to an every year tournament team that wins 70% of their conference games, because We Are Illinois.
If you had to guess, how many three year periods in the last 100 years would you suspect Illinois has won 70% of its conference games?
Doug Mills did it for one three year stretch in the early 1940's. Harry Combes did it for one three year stretch in his 20 seasons here in the late 40's. Lou Henson did it for one three year stretch in his 21 seasons here. Self did it in his three years. Weber won 80% his first three years. And Underwood's last three. That's the whole list. Five other times in 100 years.
Some of our fans - you at the top of the list - think of Illinois like a Kentucky that just never broke out. But we've never been Kentucky - we've never even really been close. The best stretch of Illinois basketball in my life was 96-2005 when we made one E8 and one F4 in a decade. I bet the best stretch you remember is in the 1980's when we made, you guessed it, one S16, one E8, and one F4 in a decade. Like, you're in your mid-40's I think, and we've made two Final Fours probably since your parents were born (or close, it was before my parents were born at least).
Five other times in 100 years we've won this much in our league over three years. If any average coach could do that consistently, all our coaches must have been true disasters.
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Believe The Wayner is a decade older than your estimate, his ‘rents may have been around for the Whiz Kids.
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Tempo is 55!?
Gotta say Wayne, if that's true and the photos I've seen of you are relatively recent, you look great for mid-50's.
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We have had multiple chances to break through and be national but something stops us
The Deon Thomas Bruce Pearl scandal
Self leaving
Weber not breaking through
The CPL boycotts
The slush fund scandal
The Nat Frazier recruits scandal.
John Groce
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Brad said I need money for RayJ … They said okay here’s the coins you asked for, now go get RayJ … And Brad missed … Now they’re all ticked … Lol … If someone took your money and promised to deliver something and didn’t … Would you give them money again and if so would you give as much ?
We aren’t just gonna pay anyone … Brad is stubborn and only wants to go after select PGs … Boosters are already p’d …
It’s just not a good combination … I’d expect no more additions to the roster unless there are some guys who come back from their teams summer tours unhappy with their role and decide to graduate and transfer … Because that will happen … Can we get them ? Idk - depends who it is …
For example from a very generous booster to me:
“I’m tired of doing business with people who I think are way to stubborn, cocky, and continuously don’t deliver on what’s promised AND then they make me pay for a kid to go sit at home half the year??? Pay these kids to go get drunk and not show up against Penn freaking State at home!!!! I don’t continue to want to donate. It was great when we had Ayo, Trent, Damonte, Feliz, Kofi and others but last year I couldn’t stand watching that team and I have a feeling this year isn’t going to be any better especially after everyone gave that money for the Toledo kid Brad couldn’t stop talking about and then he’s making excuses for losing him. And that’s where I’m at with Underwood. He’s got a lot of relationships that need repaired and he hasn’t made an effort. I’ll be putting my money towards football until then.”
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We couldn’t “afford” Rayj? Is that what I’m hearing?
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We couldn’t “afford” Rayj? Is that what I’m hearing?
Sounds like it but I also think he didn't like he wouldn't be the main guy
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So you quoted Indy Illini Fan. Do you believe it?
If the boosters gave BU the money for RayJ, and he didn't spend it; then he still has it to spend? What is the problem?
Or did they just pledge it? In that case, they still have it? Then why are they pissed?
The story does not make sense.
Brad said I need money for RayJ … They said okay here’s the coins you asked for, now go get RayJ … And Brad missed … Now they’re all ticked … Lol … If someone took your money and promised to deliver something and didn’t … Would you give them money again and if so would you give as much ?
We aren’t just gonna pay anyone … Brad is stubborn and only wants to go after select PGs … Boosters are already p’d …
It’s just not a good combination … I’d expect no more additions to the roster unless there are some guys who come back from their teams summer tours unhappy with their role and decide to graduate and transfer … Because that will happen … Can we get them ? Idk - depends who it is …
For example from a very generous booster to me:
“I’m tired of doing business with people who I think are way to stubborn, cocky, and continuously don’t deliver on what’s promised AND then they make me pay for a kid to go sit at home half the year??? Pay these kids to go get drunk and not show up against Penn freaking State at home!!!! I don’t continue to want to donate. It was great when we had Ayo, Trent, Damonte, Feliz, Kofi and others but last year I couldn’t stand watching that team and I have a feeling this year isn’t going to be any better especially after everyone gave that money for the Toledo kid Brad couldn’t stop talking about and then he’s making excuses for losing him. And that’s where I’m at with Underwood. He’s got a lot of relationships that need repaired and he hasn’t made an effort. I’ll be putting my money towards football until then.”
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The NIL money pool is murky.
I have no idea what conditions there are and if they miss on a recruit then the money pledged is not contributed or what happens to it.
I did not hear that we didn't have the money to bid on RayJ. It just seemed like he wanted to be at Baylor instead.
Could be as noted to have a larger scoring role, or he believed the track record of Baylor getting players to next level was better, or he preferred Drew over Underwood communication style.
I think that there is a more than usual amount of negative recruiting vs Illinois right now. They just play the UW and Epps tape.
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There are at least 6 insiders at Loyalty and they generally don't all agree.
They all seem to agree RayJ's family wanted him at UI. That did not work in our favor this time.
What LK said about negative recruiting.
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There are at least 6 insiders at Loyalty and they generally don't all agree.
They all seem to agree RayJ's family wanted him at UI. That did not work in our favor this time.
What LK said about negative recruiting.
I wish they would go after Toussaint. Does not sound like we are in the mix.
Hope it all works out. Anxious to see what they look like.
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Go to Spain. See what we have. There will be more grad transfers in August.
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Our starting pg entered the portal 3 months ago.
Underwood should have found a body. And if you can buy somebody at the NIL store over that body, so be it.
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like they say "when there's smoke, there's fire"
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This sucks https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1673697221051822080?t=3wH2x92Bi2lVVQKfabNAkg&s=19
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like they say "when there's smoke, there's fire"
You lost me. LOL. ????
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Our starting pg entered the portal 3 months ago.
Underwood should have found a body. And if you can buy somebody at the NIL store over that body, so be it.
Seems insanely idiotic the way this is going down. I know I’m not privy to practice and shit but get a goddamned PG
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Plan A played at Portsmouth and stayed in draft..
Plan A1 was an Illini lean early but ultimately picked Baylor.
Plan B unexpectedly stayed in the draft
Plan C committed but has too much baggage to unpack.
There are two actual point guards, Gibbs-Lawhorn & Moretti, and a point forward -- Rodgers -- on the roster.
New additions Domask, Harmon, Hansberry, and Guerrier will upgrade the team's overall ball skills. Domask is a very good passer. Hansberry has been called a point center.
Hawkins and Dainja, yes Dain Dainja, are good at passing and handling for their size and position. Dainja has lost more weight and hopefully will show more of what he can do. Knock on wood.
There is an open ride and another crop of grad student transfers will emerge in August.
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Plan A played at Portsmouth and stayed in draft..
Plan A1 was an Illini lean early but ultimately picked Baylor.
Plan B unexpectedly stayed in the draft
Plan C committed but has too much baggage to unpack.
There are two actual point guards, Gibbs-Lawhorn & Moretti, and a point forward -- Rodgers -- on the roster.
New additions Domask, Harmon, Hansberry, and Guerrier will upgrade the team's overall ball skills. Domask is a very good passer. Hansberry has been called a point center.
Hawkins and Dainja, yes Dain Dainja, are good at passing and handling for their size and position. Dainja has lost more weight and hopefully will show more of what he can do. Knock on wood.
There is an open ride and another crop of grad student transfers will emerge in August.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Don't get caught with your pants down.
Proper planning promotes proper performance.
Poor planning promotes poor performance.
Ifs, ands and buts and a nickel is worth .... a nickle.
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Seems insanely idiotic the way this is going down. I know I’m not privy to practice and shit but get a goddamned PG
I think they are going with Rodgers/DGL/Harmon.
We will see....
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🤢
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We didn't mention all the guys they passed on trying to hit a homerun.
And there are a few guys we refused to pursue because UW can be a redass. LOL.
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I should have mentioned Harmon as a combo guard.
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Recalling the year we went into the season with Maniscalco as a grad transfer and Abrams as a freshman as our two possible PGs and our lottery pick wound up crying on the bench as we got slaughtered by Nebraska.
I really like Ty Rogers and he was clutch for us at times last year but if he's our 1 we're going to have some bad games.
I also don't know why we didn't aggressively pursue a safety PG while still going for RayJ, etc. Like I don't Ahron Ulis is going to be All-B1G this year but a stable rotation PG is a stable rotation PG.
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Recalling the year we went into the season with Maniscalco as a grad transfer and Abrams as a freshman as our two possible PGs and our lottery pick wound up crying on the bench as we got slaughtered by Nebraska.
I really like Ty Rogers and he was clutch for us at times last year but if he's our 1 we're going to have some bad games.
I also don't know why we didn't aggressively pursue a safety PG while still going for RayJ, etc. Like I don't Ahron Ulis is going to be All-B1G this year but a stable rotation PG is a stable rotation PG.
Exactly what I would have typed if I had the energy to do so.
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Wasn’t that one of Weber’s big downfalls? Whiffing on the big fish with no solid backup plans?
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Wasn’t that one of Weber’s big downfalls? Whiffing on the big fish with no solid backup plans?
I thought that was Groce
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I thought that was Groce
Thinkin that is pretty much just our beloved ILLINI in general.
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Wasn’t that one of Weber’s big downfalls? Whiffing on the big fish with no solid backup plans?
I think that was Groce.
Underwood has at least 4 back up plans on the roster.
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Thinkin that is pretty much just our beloved ILLINI in general.
Lou Henson struggled to recruit point guards until Harper and Tucker in 1980. The 1979 team collapsed when Steve Lanter reinjured a knee.
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The public address announcer with 'And starting at point guard for your Fighting Illini is Backup Plan A' does have a certain ring to it.
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Better than Jaylon Tate.
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Im fairly certain Rodgers will be better than Clark or Epps. Those 2 we're terrible PGs and even worse teammates.
The fact we made the tourny last year despite them should be considered an achievement.
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I don’t think Rodgers has made a shot outside 3 feet since he’s been enrolled at UI. He basically gives the other team an extra defender to essentially drop into zone when he’s running the point.
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Im fairly certain Rodgers will be better than Clark or Epps. Those 2 we're terrible PGs and even worse teammates.
The fact we made the tourny last year despite them should be considered an achievement.
Over or Under...wood Achievement?
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I don’t think Rodgers has made a shot outside 3 feet since he’s been enrolled at UI. He basically gives the other team an extra defender to essentially drop into zone when he’s running the point.
Sounds very Jaylon Tate-ish.
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Sounds very Jaylon Tate-ish.
Yes, this is my concern as well.
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I don’t think Rodgers has made a shot outside 3 feet since he’s been enrolled at UI. He basically gives the other team an extra defender to essentially drop into zone when he’s running the point.
+1
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Sounds very Jaylon Tate-ish.
Yes except, Tate never had any "other" game either....no above avg passing skills, (Ty is a good passer), no "Booty" game...too small, no penetration into lane areas, too slight of build....other than that yes just like Tate.
Best thing any Tate had going for him was he made a living being a reporter.... ;D
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Andres feliz in his Sr season shot like 27% from 3 and even worse when not shooting from the corner.
Andrea curbelo as big ten all-freshman team/ 6th man of year shot like 17% from 3.
Should we compare them to Jaylon Tate too?
Don't compare Rodgers to Jaylon Tate.
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Andres feliz in his Sr season shot like 27% from 3 and even worse when not shooting from the corner.
Andrea curbelo as big ten all-freshman team/ 6th man of year shot like 17% from 3.
Should we compare them to Jaylon Tate too?
Don't compare Rodgers to Jaylon Tate.
Well, we were discussing ONE aspect of his game, which is his reluctance to shoot anywhere from distance. So, the comparison is fair in that respect.
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Well, we were discussing ONE aspect of his game, which is his reluctance to shoot anywhere from distance. So, the comparison is fair in that respect.
Agreed. If he makes a few, that would be encouraging and put it to rest.
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Well, we were discussing ONE aspect of his game, which is his reluctance to shoot anywhere from distance. So, the comparison is fair in that respect.
Lieb is very Kofi-ish.
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Lieb is very Kofi-ish.
Don’t be retarded…
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Lieb is very Kofi-ish.
In the only way that matters....they both have 4 letters in the names. 8)
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Don’t be retarded…
Just tell him to shut the fuck up.
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Just tell him to shut the fuck up.
Don't be retarded is I think is the slow way to say that.... ???
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Don’t be retarded…
They are both tall.
It's called sarcasm
Shouldn't have to label sarcasm except for the intellectually handicapped
Oh, wait
.
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Sounds very Jaylon Tate-ish.
Jodie Harrison-ish
Bruce Douglas-ish
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If someone doesn't mind, can they summarize the last 4 pages for me besides the Nichi is retarded part? I'm buzzed.
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If someone doesn't mind, can they summarize the last 4 pages for me besides the Nichi is retarded part? I'm buzzed.
Sarcasm is running rampant or not at all....have one for me!!
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Sarcasm is running rampant or not at all....have one for me!!
I'll have 10. Everyone else is passed out.
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https://www.youtube.com/live/0x-2habsCh4?feature=share
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If someone doesn't mind, can they summarize the last 4 pages for me besides the Nichi is retarded part? I'm buzzed.
Just scroll down.
The end.
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More Jaylon Tate-ish point guards besides Harrison, Douglas, and Rodgers: Quinn Buckner, Charlie Ward, Eric Snow, Mateen Cleaves.
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Supposedly the players like Ty at PG.
https://247sports.com/college/illinois/article/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-ty-rodgers-point-guard-212268626/?fbclid=IwAR3TZL1iWEtvuKIwjWq6e_FyIMmEMn1xRIiUn8rPD9hYDjyiVXroCgglqNA (https://247sports.com/college/illinois/article/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-ty-rodgers-point-guard-212268626/?fbclid=IwAR3TZL1iWEtvuKIwjWq6e_FyIMmEMn1xRIiUn8rPD9hYDjyiVXroCgglqNA)
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Will the coaches and fans like it though
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I hope it works out, for him and for us.
Is his nickname going to be "Dice" ?
"Rolling with Rodgers as the top point guard option will be viewed as a roll of the dice."
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It will be better than last year and hopefully DGL gets minutes and contributes.
Harmon can also play some.
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The Diceman
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If we can get 7ppg/3 assists/ 1.5TO/4 rebounds and he can hit a 15 foot open jump shot at 45% and FTs at 65% we will be ok.
All should be doable.
I assume he will play reasonable D.
Maybe 22 mpg at PG and DGL and Harmon get the other 18.
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Breaking down a defense in the half court is one thing we could use also.
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Breaking down a defense in the half court is one thing we could use also.
I think he can penetrate some with his size. The issue is they can easily go under screens and play drop coverage and clog the lane at will until he can show he can make a jump shot.
And nobody knows if he is able to drive and kick effectively.
I also question his ability to stay in front of quicker guards.
If they have to stick him on a 2 or 3 then Shannon has to guard the PG.
I don't like that.
I think TR and Harris are both really over rated on their on ball D.
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In the interview he said he lost some weight to play PG.
https://tayandpiper.podbean.com/
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In the interview he said he lost some weight to play PG.
https://tayandpiper.podbean.com/
No doubt a hard worker and great effort guy.
No questions about attitude and I am sure he is very coachable.
Will be interested to see him and the other pieces and how they try to put it together.
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I hope it works out, for him and for us.
Is his nickname going to be "Dice" ?
"Rolling with Rodgers as the top point guard option will be viewed as a roll of the dice."
Hopefully not craps
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Tumbling dice
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The Diceman
Hickory Dickory Dock...
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Ty Rodgers nickname should be Teen Wolf. Anything else is unacceptable.
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Ty Rodgers nickname should be Teen Wolf. Anything else is unacceptable.
Could be Buck if we were in the 25th century though??
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Buck is taken
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Despite the rampant rationalization across Illini nation, I still don’t like this even a little bit
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"Former St. John’s point guard André Curbelo has been suspended indefinitely from the Puerto Rican National Team." https://twitter.com/TheNextProspect/status/1676327146204155905?t=oAFIWpgAiuow2iGLGG8Qkg&s=19
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What a train wreck
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"Hubo mucha indisciplina" takes very little Spanish to understand. Best of luck, Southern Miss.
https://www.elnuevodia.com/deportes/baloncesto/notas/hubo-mucha-indisciplina-el-dirigente-nacional-christian-dalmau-defiende-la-decision-de-suspender-a-andre-curbelo/
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Allegedly he has some sort of addiction issue.
Not clear what that is.
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Allegedly he has some sort of addiction issue.
Not clear what that is.
Sad. So much potential just wasted.
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Sad. So much potential just wasted.
NBA HOF potential.
Sorry, I had to say it before Dipshit34 did.
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NBA HOF potential.
Sorry, I had to say it before Dipshit34 did.
😂 his raw talent is undeniable…
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NBA HOF potential.
Sorry, I had to say it before Dipshit34 did.
Give it a rest dude. It’s been like 3-4 months since we’ve quarreled. Let sleeping dogs lie FFS
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I said some really outrageous stuff about Curbelo his freshman year too. Like that he’d go on to be the best pro on that team. It may have been premature, but it is pretty obvious the head trauma really fucked him up.
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Give it a rest dude. It’s been like 3-4 months since we’ve quarreled. Let sleeping dogs lie FFS
Not quarreling at all. It's not my fault you're a douchebag.
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I said some really outrageous stuff about Curbelo his freshman year too. Like that he’d go on to be the best pro on that team. It may have been premature, but it is pretty obvious the head trauma really fucked him up.
Yeah, I had pretty high hopes for him too.
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I did too
Hey we all make mistakes
I thought Groce would be great!
I thought Leonard should have been a top 10 pick
I thought we'd win it all in 21
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There's a whole lot of revisionist history going on regarding Curbelo among our fans at the moment. People acting like folks were just blinded by his flashiness and that's why anyone thought he might be a decent college basketball player. People saying that are idiots, and have simply forgotten that he was really good - no qualifiers - as a true freshman on a 1-seed. Efficient scorer, close to 2 A-TO. He wasn't named the best bench player in the league because he was flashy, he was named that because he was really good.
I have no idea how much the concussion played in, but I do know that once he had the concussion he never looked the same again. I also think our staff handled that situation poorly, including not even taking him out of the game when he got a concussion so bad he missed like 6 weeks of games. I was surprised at the time they didn't take more heat for that.
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Regarding the recruiting/donor stuff - I will say if you had money to give to RayJ but removed that offer because he chose to go elsewhere you can fuck right off. We don't need donors in it to play GM or for selfish clout reasons. If you had money for RayJ but not for another guy that our staff wanted then you self evidently don't actually care about the success of the program, and we're better off without that kind of shithead.
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Not quarreling at all. It's not my fault you're a douchebag.
Douchebag calls another guy douchebag. News at 11.
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There's a whole lot of revisionist history going on regarding Curbelo among our fans at the moment. People acting like folks were just blinded by his flashiness and that's why anyone thought he might be a decent college basketball player. People saying that are idiots, and have simply forgotten that he was really good - no qualifiers - as a true freshman on a 1-seed. Efficient scorer, close to 2 A-TO. He wasn't named the best bench player in the league because he was flashy, he was named that because he was really good.
I have no idea how much the concussion played in, but I do know that once he had the concussion he never looked the same again. I also think our staff handled that situation poorly, including not even taking him out of the game when he got a concussion so bad he missed like 6 weeks of games. I was surprised at the time they didn't take more heat for that.
All reasonable. I felt like there was more going on than we knew, but I have no idea what. Just felt like we were in the dark.
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Allegedly he has some sort of addiction issue.
Not clear what that is.
Take it with a grain, but have a feeling that he has an undiagnosed mental health issue exacerbated by the concussion.
Concussions are really scary stuff, and absolutely have the ability to change someone's personality or make negative things worse. Not saying I know for sure that's what happened here, or that it's all that happened here, but it's certainly plausible.
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All reasonable. I felt like there was more going on than we knew, but I have no idea what. Just felt like we were in the dark.
As we should've been, for the most part. It's not really any of our business.
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As we should've been, for the most part. It's not really any of our business.
Probably. Can depend on what that issue is. If it’s what you stated above, correct.
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Probably. Can depend on what that issue is. If it’s what you stated above, correct.
It really doesn't.
Surprised you'd argue there is a situation where fans deserve to know what personal issues players are going through. Usually you're on the right side of that sort of discussion.
The players don't owe us a fucking thing. It's none of my business what happened with Curbelo or what he's gone through. If he wanted me to know, he'd go public.
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How we feel about Brad promoting Tyler?
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It really doesn't.
Surprised you'd argue there is a situation where fans deserve to know what personal issues players are going through. Usually you're on the right side of that sort of discussion.
The players don't owe us a fucking thing. It's none of my business what happened with Curbelo or what he's gone through. If he wanted me to know, he'd go public.
Again, it just depends on what the issue is/was.
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How we feel about Brad promoting Tyler?
To what?
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If it’s a deeply personal issue (say mental health), then no. We don’t deserve more info. If he wasn’t going to class or his problems were attitude/effort based, that’s reasonable to know.
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To what?
https://www.thechampaignroom.com/platform/amp/2023/7/3/23783232/tyler-underwood-promoted-to-illinois-assistant-coach-fighting-illini-ncaa-big-ten-brad
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If it’s a deeply personal issue (say mental health), then no. We don’t deserve more info. If he wasn’t going to class or his problems were attitude/effort based, that’s reasonable to know.
There is zero reason whatsoever for us to know what personal issues are happening with the players.
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There is zero reason whatsoever for us to know what personal issues are happening with the players.
Agreed. It's none of our fucking business
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To what?
Programs got two extra paid coaching slots this year, and Tyler got one of ours (he had been working with the program in some lower level position last year)
Don't really have a problem with it, but would think at some point everyone involved would want him to go off and have some experience, maybe some success, away from his dad.
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Take it with a grain, but have a feeling that he has an undiagnosed mental health issue exacerbated by the concussion.
Concussions are really scary stuff, and absolutely have the ability to change someone's personality or make negative things worse. Not saying I know for sure that's what happened here, or that it's all that happened here, but it's certainly plausible.
Post-concussion syndrome even by itself can be wild and it's difficult to grasp because most concussions heal reasonably quickly. I only pretend to be a doctor in certain legal situations but it seems plausible.
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Loyalty insider Indy Illini claims he talks to BU regularly and it is a given, and BU agrees, if they miss the tourney there will be a parting of ways.
I think this is a tourney team so not worried about missing it.
I do wonder what happens if we struggle down the stretch and have a one and done exit.
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Loyalty insider Indy Illini claims he talks to BU regularly and it is a given, and BU agrees, if they miss the tourney there will be a parting of ways.
I think this is a tourney team so not worried about missing it.
I do wonder what happens if we struggle down the stretch and have a one and done exit.
Being that the "Alpha's" will all be gone, the transfers will be gone (Domask, Harmon, Guerrier,) that leaves us with Rodgers, Harris, Hansberry, Johnson, DGL, it won't be terrible, but it won't be Goode either....
With all that said, could we even get a quality replacement based on that talent? Would Whit stand pat with BU with another early exit? I doubt it but talent doesn't speak to a high volume coach and that is considering all that okay talent stays and the cream of the crop Johnson stays as well?
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Loyalty insider Indy Illini claims he talks to BU regularly and it is a given, and BU agrees, if they miss the tourney there will be a parting of ways.
I think this is a tourney team so not worried about missing it.
I do wonder what happens if we struggle down the stretch and have a one and done exit.
Being in the top 25 in 3 pt attempts per game while in the bottom 25 in percentage is asking for trouble. Add in being in the bottom third in turnovers per game and stagnant half court possessions and you're just asking for more trouble.
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Being in the top 25 in 3 pt attempts per game while in the bottom 25 in percentage is asking for trouble. Add in being in the bottom third in turnovers per game and stagnant half court possessions and you're just asking for more trouble.
Last season was a struggle.
Hopefully they have a better season this year.
I think they will.
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Being that the "Alpha's" will all be gone, the transfers will be gone (Domask, Harmon, Guerrier,) that leaves us with Rodgers, Harris, Hansberry, Johnson, DGL, it won't be terrible, but it won't be Goode either....
With all that said, could we even get a quality replacement based on that talent? Would Whit stand pat with BU with another early exit? I doubt it but talent doesn't speak to a high volume coach and that is considering all that okay talent stays and the cream of the crop Johnson stays as well?
If we move on expect everyone to leave. The days of a coach inheriting a full cupboard are just over.
Zero question we will be starting from more or less square one.
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Being that the "Alpha's" will all be gone, the transfers will be gone (Domask, Harmon, Guerrier,) that leaves us with Rodgers, Harris, Hansberry, Johnson, DGL, it won't be terrible, but it won't be Goode either....
With all that said, could we even get a quality replacement based on that talent? Would Whit stand pat with BU with another early exit? I doubt it but talent doesn't speak to a high volume coach and that is considering all that okay talent stays and the cream of the crop Johnson stays as well?
There’s still like 3 top 50ish guys, three more top 100ish guys with experience (plus Dainja who wasn’t listed) in an era of instant portal gratification. I mean yeah they wouldn’t all stay but that’s not a disaster by any means. Certainly more than what he had coming in.
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I think we are gonna be in for a surprise it's up to YOU to decide if it's good or bad
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I think we are gonna be in for a surprise it's up to YOU to decide if it's good or bad
Sounds like one of your days at corporate.
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Sounds like one of your days at corporate.
You got that right brother
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If we move on expect everyone to leave. The days of a coach inheriting a full cupboard are just over.
Zero question we will be starting from more or less square one.
Well, if we lose first round this year we are kind of at square one. Would be 2 NCAA wins in 7 years.
Would be time for a change.
He would be 0-8 as coach in his career getting to second weekend.
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Well, if we lose first round this year we are kind of at square one. Would be 2 NCAA wins in 7 years.
Would be time for a change.
He would be 0-8 as coach in his career getting to second weekend.
Sounds kind of bleak when you put it that way.
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Sounds kind of bleak when you put it that way.
The guy needs to break through. I think this team has a lot of potential if staff can get buy in.
I know people have questions about Underwood, but honestly WTF does Frazier bring to the culture?
He was supposed to be the tough D and effort leader and get everybody to be a dog guy.
Don't see it.
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The guy needs to break through. I think this team has a lot of potential if staff can get buy in.
I know people have questions about Underwood, but honestly WTF does Frazier bring to the culture?
He was supposed to be the tough D and effort leader and get everybody to be a dog guy.
Don't see it.
I don't really think that's something that can be easily taught... either you got the dog in ya or ya don't
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I thought Underwood was supposed to red ass that into his players. At least that’s what I was told when he was hired.
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I thought Underwood was supposed to red ass that into his players. At least that’s what I was told when he was hired.
I thought he was going to recruit kids that had it already... although I would imagine that with Illinois boosters, Chicago AAU clout chasers, shoe companies, other recruiting steering going on, and now the transfer portal nonsense, that might be a more difficult task than he originally imagined.
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Is the tide turning?
Find out in March 2024
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The guy needs to break through. I think this team has a lot of potential if staff can get buy in.
I know people have questions about Underwood, but honestly WTF does Frazier bring to the culture?
He was supposed to be the tough D and effort leader and get everybody to be a dog guy.
Don't see it.
He will be a future head coach for illini within 15 years
Book it
See you by 2038
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Finally scratch Tempo’s itch for a black coach.
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Why not bring in Brian randle
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Why not bring in Brian randle
Not black enough
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lol
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If we move on expect everyone to leave. The days of a coach inheriting a full cupboard are just over.
Zero question we will be starting from more or less square one.
The good news is that it's easier than ever to start from square one but knowing our luck I wouldn't rule our a rule change that screws us.
If we go alum I'd hire Powell if he has anything close to a good year at Valpo, but my guess is that Whitman will try for a "home run" again.
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Jesus, you guys are some clowns. Ima no thanks on Chet.
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If Underwood leaves or is dismissed I have a reasonable amount of trust in the AD and donor base to make a good to great hire.
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Sean Miller it will be.
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If Underwood leaves or is dismissed I have a reasonable amount of trust in the AD and donor base to make a good to great hire.
Agreed.
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Bill self come on home
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Bill self come on home
I got laughed at pretty heartily a handful of years back for suggesting the whoever it was at the time AD send out a feeler.
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I got laughed at pretty heartily a handful of years back for suggesting the whoever it was at the time AD send out a feeler.
And rightfully so
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Jesus, you guys are some clowns. Ima no thanks on Chet.
Who is Chet?
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And rightfully so
This reminds me of Tempo pining for Bill Self to come back....
https://youtu.be/DtoCw2iOTSc
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I got laughed at pretty heartily a handful of years back for suggesting the whoever it was at the time AD send out a feeler.
Victim
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And rightfully so
Sure. Because sending out a feeler could be disastrous.
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Victim
Tool.
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Who is Chet?
The guy that got called Chet for 10 years here.
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This reminds me of Tempo pining for Bill Self to come back....
https://youtu.be/DtoCw2iOTSc
What’s the harm in sending a text message? That’s all it would take.
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Why WOULDN’T Self come back, really?
We’re Illinois after all, should be a no brainer.
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Why WOULDN’T Self come back, really?
We’re Illinois after all, should be a no brainer.
We should just text him. What could it hurt?
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Why WOULDN’T Self come back, really?
We’re Illinois after all, should be a no brainer.
Why did he even leave in the first place is the bigger question!
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Why WOULDN’T Self come back, really?
We’re Illinois after all, should be a no brainer.
Get away from off the court heat at KU. I’d be willing to bet he’s felt underappreciated at times. You never know when I guy might want a fresh start. He knows he can win here. I’m not saying it’s likely at all. But it’s a fucking message. It’s not Whitman has to ask Self publicly.
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We should just text him. What could it hurt?
Exactly. What could it hurt? The worst that could happen is he says “I’m still happy at KU, but thanks for the interest.”
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We should just text him. What could it hurt?
That is all it would take.
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Why did he even leave in the first place is the bigger question!
Yes. That’s a question I’m not sure has ever been correctly answered (confirmed). We can all speculate and point out some of the obvious things, but there certainly could have been more to it other than just KU/big raise.
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Get away from off the court heat at KU. I’d be willing to bet he’s felt underappreciated at times. You never know when I guy might want a fresh start. He knows he can win here. I’m not saying it’s likely at all. But it’s a fucking message. It’s not Whitman has to ask Self publicly.
Maybe Whitman should text him now about next year for when Underachiever claims he is getting feelers and seeks another raise and extension?
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That is all it would take.
Absolutely no one has said that. Nice strawman though.
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Maybe Whitman should text him now about next year for when Underachiever claims he is getting feelers and seeks another raise and extension?
Couldn’t hurt. The worst that happens is he says “No thank you.”
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Absolutely no one has said that. Nice strawman though.
You actually did type it though....
What’s the harm in sending a text message? That’s all it would take. [Emphasis added.]
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You actually did type it though....
To get the ball rolling on any possible discussions. You’re a moron if you think I meant a simple text message gets Self back to Illinois.
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But then you have proven yourself to be incredibly literal. Not understanding nuance in the least.
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To get the ball rolling on any possible discussions. You’re a moron if you think I meant a simple text message gets Self back to Illinois.
Absolutely no one has said that. (Except you.) Nice strawman though.
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Why WOULDN’T Self come back, really?
We’re Illinois after all, should be a no brainer.
I really hope Whitman has a greater appreciation for Illinois’ place in college athletics than you do. I think he does.
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Absolutely no one has said that. (Except you.) Nice strawman though.
Ok, LiteralDipShitMan.
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But then you have proven yourself to be incredibly literal. Not understanding nuance in the least.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc
Seriously. I’m guessing you’re trolling (and awfully hard). You can’t possibly be dumb enough to think that I meant one text message gets Self back to Illinois. Or can you?
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Ok, LiteralDipShitMan.
You typed something. Then said no one actually said that. Then you admitted typing it.
So you did actually say it.
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You typed something. Then said no one actually said that. Then you admitted typing it.
So you did actually say it.
Ok Fuckboi. Nice trolling. Have fun trolling today.
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Seriously. I’m guessing you’re trolling (and awfully hard). You can’t possibly be dumb enough to think that I meant one text message gets Self back to Illinois. Or can you?
I cannot speak for everyone else, but I never thought you meant that one text message would get Self back to Illinois.
I am thinking it would be at least 3.
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Ok Fuckboi. Nice trolling. Have fun trolling today.
Why are you so angry today?
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It’s obvious you’re just here to perform your Fuckboi troll act. Have fun. I won’t be indulging your today, unfortunately.
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It’s obvious you’re just here to perform your Fuckboi troll act. Have fun. I won’t be indulging your today, unfortunately.
Spark started it. I just built off of it. Why you getting mad at me?
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I did not even think what you accused me of thinking you said.
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Where did the anger come from? Jesus, lol
Seems like Tempo is having a heavy flow day.
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Spark started it. I just built off of it. Why you getting mad at me?
IDK, maybe it’s your constant unquenched desire for low-base trolling.
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Where did the anger come from? Jesus, lol
Seems like Tempo is having a heavy flow day.
Instead of Thing 1 and Thing 2, you and PAMan should wear shirts that say “Troll 1 and Troll 2.”
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I cannot speak for everyone else, but I never thought you meant that one text message would get Self back to Illinois.
I am thinking it would be at least 3.
3-5.
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3-5.
Troll 3.
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We should just text him. What could it hurt?
@CoachBillSelf if you want to use the Twitter.
What could it hurt ?
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Troll 3.
Any takers on Troll 4 and Troll 5 ?
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@CoachBillSelf if you want to use the Twitter.
What could it hurt ?
Hilarious. Hilariously dumb that is.
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Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.
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3-5.
Don't know how I missed that one.
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IDK, maybe it’s your constant unquenched desire for low-base trolling.
You accused me of thinking you said something I never thought you said, or meant, when I quoted something you actually did type.
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Being afraid to take a home run swing on a guy you might have a small chance with because you’re afraid he’ll say “no,” is more Guentheresque than anything Ron Guenther ever did.
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Being afraid to take a home run swing on a guy you might have a small chance with because you’re afraid he’ll say “no,” is more Guentheresque than anything Ron Guenther ever did.
I actually do not disagree with you at all.
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How this all goes down in the mind of an insecure Illini fan:
Whitman goes on a TV show called “The Coach.” Whitman offers Bill Self a rose and is publicly humiliated. Which makes every Illini fan feel eternally humiliated.
How this actually goes down:
Whitman reaches out to Self/Self’s agent. Self probably says no, but is probably flattered by the interest. 6-8 people ever knows it happened. Self, his agent, his wife, his AD, Whitman and his closest assistant. Maybe 2-3 other people. World goes on as normal.
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Any takers on Troll 4 and Troll 5 ?
Nah, can’t think of anybody… 😁
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How this all goes down in the mind of an insecure Illini fan:
Whitman goes on a TV show called “The Coach.” Whitman offers Bill Self a rose and is publicly humiliated. Which makes every Illini fan feel eternally humiliated.
How this actually goes down:
Whitman reaches out to Self/Self’s agent. Self probably says no, but is probably flattered by the interest. 6-8 people ever knows it happened. Self, his agent, his wife, his AD, Whitman and his closest assistant. Maybe 2-3 other people. World goes on as normal.
But how would YOU ever know if that happened though?! It could’ve happened before we hired Underwood for all anybody knows…
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But how would YOU ever know if that happened though?! It could’ve happened before we hired Underwood for all anybody knows…
That’s not the point. I’m not asking him to do it to prove something to me. I’d want to at least believe that he’d be willing to take big swings. It’s got nothing to do with someone like me knowing or not knowing.
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That’s not the point. I’m not asking him to do it to prove something to me. I’d want to at least believe that he’d be willing to take big swings. It’s got nothing to do with someone like me knowing or not knowing.
But again, who’s to say he hasn’t already?!
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But again, who’s to say he hasn’t already?!
No one. I wasn’t making the case he hasn’t. I’m simply saying I would hope it’s something he’d do, or at the very least seriously consider…
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I really hope Whitman has a greater appreciation for Illinois’ place in college athletics than you do. I think he does.
I sincerely hope Whitman doesn't have the "of course, we're Illinois!" attitude. Guenther did though, so maybe.
We're a historically good, not great, program with some lean stretches and some great stretches throughout the 120 years or so we've been playing basketball. We're situated in an area near to three major metro areas that typically produce some good talent, but also in the middle of a cornfield 100+ miles from each of them. I think there are reasons to believe Illinois has the potential to be a consistently great program in the future, for sure, but I don't subscribe to the "We're Illinois, of course we can get <x great coach>" or "of course this kid who used to live in Illinois holds them in a special place in his heart" type thinking because frankly, fans think that way - more often coaches and players don't.
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How this all goes down in the mind of an insecure Illini fan:
Whitman goes on a TV show called “The Coach.” Whitman offers Bill Self a rose and is publicly humiliated. Which makes every Illini fan feel eternally humiliated.
How this actually goes down:
Whitman reaches out to Self/Self’s agent. Self probably says no, but is probably flattered by the interest. 6-8 people ever knows it happened. Self, his agent, his wife, his AD, Whitman and his closest assistant. Maybe 2-3 other people. World goes on as normal.
I'm not at all scared of him saying no; of course he'd say no.
I'm laughing at the very idea of sending Bill Self a text message saying hey man, wanna come back? Surely you see why it's funny.
Flattered by the interest?
I'm pretty confident Bill Self knows without a doubt he could get more or less any open college job in the country if he wanted it, every year. Of course Illinois would want him to coach there. Same with damn near every school in the country.
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I want Self
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I sincerely hope Whitman doesn't have the "of course, we're Illinois!" attitude. Guenther did though, so maybe.
We're a historically good, not great, program with some lean stretches and some great stretches throughout the 120 years or so we've been playing basketball. We're situated in an area near to three major metro areas that typically produce some good talent, but also in the middle of a cornfield 100+ miles from each of them. I think there are reasons to believe Illinois has the potential to be a consistently great program in the future, for sure, but I don't subscribe to the "We're Illinois, of course we can get <x great coach>" or "of course this kid who used to live in Illinois holds them in a special place in his heart" type thinking because frankly, fans think that way - more often coaches and players don't.
A lot of big universities are in the middle of nowhere. Including KU. Nowhere ever did I say that we can get whoever we want because we are Illinois.
But there’s also an old adage: if you’re never being said no to, you’re probably not aiming high enough.
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I'm not at all scared of him saying no; of course he'd say no.
I'm laughing at the very idea of sending Bill Self a text message saying hey man, wanna come back? Surely you see why it's funny.
Flattered by the interest?
I'm pretty confident Bill Self knows without a doubt he could get more or less any open college job in the country if he wanted it, every year. Of course Illinois would want him to coach there. Same with damn near every school in the country.
Funny to “us fans” as you like to say. Just business to Bill Self and Josh Whitman I would think. They don’t have your hangups.
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Bill Self knowing he could come back if he wanted to wouldn’t preclude him from being flattered by the offer…
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The self-loathing Illini fan mindset just oozes from Spark.
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I'm not at all scared of him saying no; of course he'd say no.
I'm laughing at the very idea of sending Bill Self a text message saying hey man, wanna come back? Surely you see why it's funny.
Flattered by the interest?
I'm pretty confident Bill Self knows without a doubt he could get more or less any open college job in the country if he wanted it, every year. Of course Illinois would want him to coach there. Same with damn near every school in the country.
To illustrate my point, I'd be willing to bet Bill Self has more respect for the Illinois job than you do. He can be flattered by the gesture without actually wanting the position.
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Funny to “us fans” as you like to say. Just business to Bill Self and Josh Whitman I would think. They don’t have your hangups.
They certainly don’t have your naïveté about the CBB business.
I’ve known a lot of people in CBB and high level HS basketball, and have never met one that views things like you do - because you think of things steadfastly as an Illinois basketball fan and never take a step back and try to see it from the perspective of someone without that emotional connection.
Like, maybe we should text Coach K? Couldn’t hurt, maybe he’d be flattered. He might be bored, you never know!
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To illustrate my point, I'd be willing to bet Bill Self has more respect for the Illinois job than you do. He can be flattered by the gesture without actually wanting the position.
You go on and on about how I don’t have “respect” for the Illinois job. It’s a straw man, a deflection. I don’t treat Illinois like a blue blood in the same way you do, that’s true. I recognize that we’re a good program but that’s it, we’re not some sleeping giant secret blue blood that inspires blind loyalty in anyone within 120 miles. Frankly, most people throughout CBB do not view us that way, outside of Illinois fan boards.
You have a very fan-centric view of our program. Of course we can get the coach (Stevens, Smart, Donovan, Sean Miller, etc.). Of course a kid from Chicago loves Illinois basketball even though they have been mediocre his entire life - it’s Illinois, after all!
It makes sense because you’re a lifelong fan. But at some point it’s probably worth taking a step back and recognizing that you think that way BECAUSE you’re a lifelong Illinois fan. Most people in the basketball world do not view our program that way at this point if they ever did, and expecting that they do is a phenomenal way to end up with the backup to your backup option.
Ron Guenther thought like you do to some degree. Of course I can get Self to stay, we’re Illinois. Of course Bruce Weber will be great here, we’re Illinois, we don’t need a Self - our program sells itself. He was just wrong though. There’s nothing more special about Illinois basketball than any dozen or two other similar programs out there. You think there is as a lifelong Illini fan of course, but you project that onto basically everyone else nationally and it just doesn’t follow reality.
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Bill Self knowing he could come back if he wanted to wouldn’t preclude him from being flattered by the offer…
You’re a super weird dude with the all time weirdest shit to be hung up on.
Sure, Whitman can shoot the text, Self can laugh, and we can move on. Let’s just say it’s already happened so we can stop wasting time discussing it.
I’m sure he’d be flattered - who wouldn’t be, we’re Illinois!
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The self-loathing Illini fan mindset just oozes from Spark.
Just such a weird, weird take.
Being honest about a program isn’t self loathing, and pretending we’re something we aren’t and have basically never been for longer than 5-7 years, a handful of times in our history isn’t done virtuous stance.
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A lot of big universities are in the middle of nowhere. Including KU. Nowhere ever did I say that we can get whoever we want because we are Illinois.
If I made a post like this you wouldn’t stop talking about how I thought Illinois and KU were similar programs for years.
Have I said anything about our program that’s even really debatable? A good, not great program historically? Have had a handful of 5-7 year stretches where we are great but have never sustained it for longer than that? Close to three major metro areas but not really close to any of them, and in the middle of a cornfield?
I’d love for you to lay out all the places I’m wrong here, and maybe lay out your view of the program in a similar way. What part of my characterization do you take such issue with that you’re telling me I’m self loathing?
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Maybe, just maybe, Whitman has no interest in Bill Self.
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Why not Jay Wright? Billy Donovan?
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They certainly don’t have your naïveté about the CBB business.
I’ve known a lot of people in CBB and high level HS basketball, and have never met one that views things like you do - because you think of things steadfastly as an Illinois basketball fan and never take a step back and try to see it from the perspective of someone without that emotional connection.
Like, maybe we should text Coach K? Couldn’t hurt, maybe he’d be flattered. He might be bored, you never know!
Bill Self would have to have a Ron Burgundy level of ego (possible i suppose) to not feel flattered by Illinois reaching out to him. Do you really think he’s that callous?
Have you never had a female you weren’t actually interested show attraction to you? Even though you weren’t interested, if you’re not a callous piece of shit you’d still be flattered.
Your view of this is completely transactional. Again, I’m sure Bill Self has more respect for the Illinois job than you do. That much is certain. He wouldn’t have to have actual interest in returning to appreciate the interest.
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Maybe, just maybe, Whitman has no interest in Bill Self.
Maybe, just maybe dipshit. That’s not the fucking point either. Just saying what I’d do if I were him. Again, if you’re never being said no to, you’re probably not aiming high enough.
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You’re a super weird dude with the all time weirdest shit to be hung up on.
Sure, Whitman can shoot the text, Self can laugh, and we can move on. Let’s just say it’s already happened so we can stop wasting time discussing it.
I’m sure he’d be flattered - who wouldn’t be, we’re Illinois!
Again, it surprises me that you think Self is a callous piece of shit who only thinks of the world transactionally. Rather than a human being who actually has respect for his profession, and you know, overall good memories of his time here. He’s spoken fondly of Illinois since leaving. Sure, that doesn’t mean he’d necessarily be interested in returning. But since he’s probably more likely a normal professional with respect for the place that launched his career to the big time rather than a completely transactional egotist I choose to think he’d actually be flattered. It’s an emotion even people with large egos are capable of, you know.
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Spark is showing his complete lack of respect he has for the Illinois job. I can promise you Self has more respect for Illinois than Spark does.
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And again, that doesn’t at all mean Self would seriously consider returning. But since Whitman doesn’t have to ask publicly, what’s the harm in asking? I’ll tell you. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. That’s the harm.
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You go on and on about how I don’t have “respect” for the Illinois job. It’s a straw man, a deflection. I don’t treat Illinois like a blue blood in the same way you do, that’s true. I recognize that we’re a good program but that’s it, we’re not some sleeping giant secret blue blood that inspires blind loyalty in anyone within 120 miles. Frankly, most people throughout CBB do not view us that way, outside of Illinois fan boards.
You have a very fan-centric view of our program. Of course we can get the coach (Stevens, Smart, Donovan, Sean Miller, etc.). Of course a kid from Chicago loves Illinois basketball even though they have been mediocre his entire life - it’s Illinois, after all!
It makes sense because you’re a lifelong fan. But at some point it’s probably worth taking a step back and recognizing that you think that way BECAUSE you’re a lifelong Illinois fan. Most people in the basketball world do not view our program that way at this point if they ever did, and expecting that they do is a phenomenal way to end up with the backup to your backup option.
Ron Guenther thought like you do to some degree. Of course I can get Self to stay, we’re Illinois. Of course Bruce Weber will be great here, we’re Illinois, we don’t need a Self - our program sells itself. He was just wrong though. There’s nothing more special about Illinois basketball than any dozen or two other similar programs out there. You think there is as a lifelong Illini fan of course, but you project that onto basically everyone else nationally and it just doesn’t follow reality.
Again, unless Bill Self is a complete and utter turd. “Being flattered” is an emotion he’d be capable of feeling even from a lesser program. Because he’s human and has respect for his profession. Not just himself.
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I am not making the case that Illinois is “special.” And certainly not special compared to KU. If you think that’s my point you’re not even in the same
zip code. The point is Illinois is a desirable job. That’s not to say that anyone we ask will come running. Not what I’m saying at all. But you never know when a top coach might be feeling unappreciated. Hell again, these people are human. You might just catch someone on the right week. They experience ups and downs emotionally just like us. They are not robots (well maybe K and Knight were, but the rest not).
I am not making a case that we can have whoever we want. But if we had any shot at all with a slam dunk great coach, it’d be Self. He’s had ups and downs at KU (off the court especially). There is nothing wrong with having someone say no to you. Again, these things are not done in the public eye. So why not try it? Because some guy on a message board thinks it’s absurd? Ok.
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Just such a weird, weird take.
Being honest about a program isn’t self loathing, and pretending we’re something we aren’t and have basically never been for longer than 5-7 years, a handful of times in our history isn’t done virtuous stance.
j
Again. I’d you’re an AD and everyone you ask says yes. You’re almost certainly not aiming high enough.
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Again. The reason I say ask Self is because there is a personal connection there. It’s not like I’d say ask Izzo or Roy Williams.
Reminds me of a time an adorable little girl gave me her prized bag of bubble gum because we made a good connection on an afternoon I was hanging out with her mother and family. Obviously, as a grown man I wasn’t interested in a 5 year old girl. But it was still touching. And yes, funny!
Who knows, maybe Self in much the same way would get a laugh, but ALSO be flattered. Much like I was. Of course not. Because Self is a robot witht nothing but disdain and contempt for Illinois. We are soooo beneath him! Of course he’d laugh at us! Would probably share the message on Twitter to embarrass us!
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Does the hiring of Groce disprove your postulate on Illinois' status among coaches, Tempo, and prove Spark's statements?
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I know I am being long-winded here, but IMO the odd take is that Bill Self is purely a transactional egotist with nothing but disrespect for Illinois, rather than a human being who spent three really good seasons here; and as a person who has professional respect for his industry.
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Bill Self would have to have a Ron Burgundy level of ego (possible i suppose) to not feel flattered by Illinois reaching out to him. Do you really think he’s that callous?
Have you never had a female you weren’t actually interested show attraction to you? Even though you weren’t interested, if you’re not a callous piece of shit you’d still be flattered.
Your view of this is completely transactional. Again, I’m sure Bill Self has more respect for the Illinois job than you do. That much is certain. He wouldn’t have to have actual interest in returning to appreciate the interest.
I don't think Bill Self would be remotely surprised or care to know that Illinois would want him back if he was interested, no. I don't think sending a text accomplishes a single thing. Does it hurt? No. You'll get laughed at, obviously, but it doesn't cost anything. It's just a funny concept. "Sure he'll laugh at you but what does it hurt to send a text?" Nothing, it doesn't gain or lose a single thing. It's totally meaningless.
I view this as someone who's seen the inner workings of high level CBB a little bit. You view it as an Illinois fan, and never consider that not everyone sees that the same way you do.
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I know I am being long-winded here, but IMO the odd take is that Bill Self is purely a transactional egotist with nothing but disrespect for Illinois, rather than a human being who spent three really good seasons here; and as a person who has professional respect for his industry.
When we see someone espouse the take you call odd here, we'll tell them you think they're weird.
To this point no one has said anything remotely close to this - you recognize that, right?
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And again, that doesn’t at all mean Self would seriously consider returning. But since Whitman doesn’t have to ask publicly, what’s the harm in asking? I’ll tell you. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. That’s the harm.
And what's the benefit of asking?
Exactly the same.
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Again, it surprises me that you think Self is a callous piece of shit who only thinks of the world transactionally. Rather than a human being who actually has respect for his profession, and you know, overall good memories of his time here. He’s spoken fondly of Illinois since leaving. Sure, that doesn’t mean he’d necessarily be interested in returning. But since he’s probably more likely a normal professional with respect for the place that launched his career to the big time rather than a completely transactional egotist I choose to think he’d actually be flattered. It’s an emotion even people with large egos are capable of, you know.
It surprises me you think Self is a giant Illinois fan who's dying to come back here and just needs a text from Whitman to jump on it.
What's that? You never said that? Huh, weird.
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I am not making the case that Illinois is “special.” And certainly not special compared to KU. If you think that’s my point you’re not even in the same
zip code. The point is Illinois is a desirable job. That’s not to say that anyone we ask will come running. Not what I’m saying at all. But you never know when a top coach might be feeling unappreciated. Hell again, these people are human. You might just catch someone on the right week. They experience ups and downs emotionally just like us. They are not robots (well maybe K and Knight were, but the rest not).
I am not making a case that we can have whoever we want. But if we had any shot at all with a slam dunk great coach, it’d be Self. He’s had ups and downs at KU (off the court especially). There is nothing wrong with having someone say no to you. Again, these things are not done in the public eye. So why not try it? Because some guy on a message board thinks it’s absurd? Ok.
Illinois isn't an undesirable job, nor has anyone said anything close to that. It's a program with a decent history, in a decent location. There are a few dozen programs who could say similar things though, you act is if we're special every time we're recruiting a kid or hiring a coach. You did it with Smart and Stevens, you did it with RayJ Dennis. People are doing it right now with Sean Miller and surely you will too if we end up in a hiring cycle. This notion that We're Illinois and That Matters only comes from Illinois fans, and that isn't a coincidence. Non-Illinois fans just don't think that, and not everyone in Illinois is an Illinois fan. We're a good program in a decent area for talent (but notably in a cornfield and 100+ miles away), and that - not this "We're Illinois!" attitude you love - is how most people who follow college hoops view us.
We're a program that is good when we hire good coaches, and bad when we hire bad coaches. Same is true with most high major programs.
I'm not even sure what to say about the notion that we might have a chance at Self if we just asked him. You follow sports like it's College Hoops 2k.
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People who still hate Self for leaving is ridiculous. He would have stayed if we would have played the game
But we didn't
Now look at us
18 years without a sweet 16
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Why universities prefer not to say who they've contacted 101.
"In fact, reports surfaced that five coaches - Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, Lorenzo Romar, Anthony Grant and Leonard Hamilton - turned down the opportunity to coach the Fighting Illini.
Illinois athletic director Mike Thomas said most of those reports were simply false.
"For people to say coach Groce is the sixth choice, that's absolutely untrue," Thomas told The McNeil and Spiegel Show. "When we developed our short list early on, he was a primary candidate on that short list."
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/illinois-ad-coaching-search-went-according-to-plan/
It's not mentioned if any candidates, and who they may have been, who were contacted and turned down the offer were flattered to be presented with the opportunity.
Or maybe Groce was the only contact. Lol.
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I don't think Bill Self would be remotely surprised or care to know that Illinois would want him back if he was interested, no. I don't think sending a text accomplishes a single thing. Does it hurt? No. You'll get laughed at, obviously, but it doesn't cost anything. It's just a funny concept. "Sure he'll laugh at you but what does it hurt to send a text?" Nothing, it doesn't gain or lose a single thing. It's totally meaningless.
I view this as someone who's seen the inner workings of high level CBB a little bit. You view it as an Illinois fan, and never consider that not everyone sees that the same way you do.
Ok, so you think Bill Self’s only concern in life is status. To the point he would mock any interest from Illinois. We disagree. No need to continue this discussion. Bill Self’s only emotion is tied to his ego. It’s settled.
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And what's the benefit of asking?
Exactly the same.
As my dad used to say. “Can’t hit if you don’t shoot.”
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I don't think Bill Self would be remotely surprised or care to know that Illinois would want him back if he was interested, no. I don't think sending a text accomplishes a single thing. Does it hurt? No. You'll get laughed at, obviously, but it doesn't cost anything. It's just a funny concept. "Sure he'll laugh at you but what does it hurt to send a text?" Nothing, it doesn't gain or lose a single thing. It's totally meaningless.
I view this as someone who's seen the inner workings of high level CBB a little bit. You view it as an Illinois fan, and never consider that not everyone sees that the same way you do.
Again. You view it as someone who thinks Self’s only satisfaction comes from status. Rather than a human being who at least professes to have really enjoyed his time here. And no, that doesn’t mean he’d come back. But the harm in asking isn’t non-existent.
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When we see someone espouse the take you call odd here, we'll tell them you think they're weird.
To this point no one has said anything remotely close to this - you recognize that, right?
Bill Self couldn’t possibly be flattered to hear from Illinois. We are beneath him. The fond memories he has of this place don’t even register because his only source of satisfaction is status.
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When we see someone espouse the take you call odd here, we'll tell them you think they're weird.
To this point no one has said anything remotely close to this - you recognize that, right?
You’re basically saying it. Because to be “flattered” by the interest he’d have to be seriously interested in returning amirite? Oh no, I’m not right. Sorry.
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Illinois isn't an undesirable job, nor has anyone said anything close to that. It's a program with a decent history, in a decent location. There are a few dozen programs who could say similar things though, you act is if we're special every time we're recruiting a kid or hiring a coach. You did it with Smart and Stevens, you did it with RayJ Dennis. People are doing it right now with Sean Miller and surely you will too if we end up in a hiring cycle. This notion that We're Illinois and That Matters only comes from Illinois fans, and that isn't a coincidence. Non-Illinois fans just don't think that, and not everyone in Illinois is an Illinois fan. We're a good program in a decent area for talent (but notably in a cornfield and 100+ miles away), and that - not this "We're Illinois!" attitude you love - is how most people who follow college hoops view us.
We're a program that is good when we hire good coaches, and bad when we hire bad coaches. Same is true with most high major programs.
I'm not even sure what to say about the notion that we might have a chance at Self if we just asked him. You follow sports like it's College Hoops 2k.
“Special?” No. Perhaps MIGHT have an advantage or a foot in the door in some cases. Absolutely.
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Why universities prefer not to say who they've contacted 101.
"In fact, reports surfaced that five coaches - Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, Lorenzo Romar, Anthony Grant and Leonard Hamilton - turned down the opportunity to coach the Fighting Illini.
Illinois athletic director Mike Thomas said most of those reports were simply false.
"For people to say coach Groce is the sixth choice, that's absolutely untrue," Thomas told The McNeil and Spiegel Show. "When we developed our short list early on, he was a primary candidate on that short list."
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/illinois-ad-coaching-search-went-according-to-plan/
It's not mentioned if any candidates, and who they may have been, who were contacted and turned down the offer were flattered to be presented with the opportunity.
Or maybe Groce was the only contact. Lol.
That’s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
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Bill Self actually coached here and has professed fond memories of Illinois. Why is it an enormous stretch to think he’d be flattered to hear from us. And please don’t confuse that with meaning “actual interest in returning.” JFC
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That’s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.
Do you know that Self was not contacted ?
Yes or no.
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Do you know that Self was not contacted ?
Yes or no.
Is that my fucking point? No.
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Ok, so you think Bill Self’s only concern in life is status. To the point he would mock any interest from Illinois. We disagree. No need to continue this discussion. Bill Self’s only emotion is tied to his ego. It’s settled.
Any interest in discussing what I actually said, or are you just going to keep building strawmans to beat on?
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Bill Self actually coached here and has professed fond memories of Illinois. Why is it an enormous stretch to think he’d be flattered to hear from us. And please don’t confuse that with meaning “actual interest in returning.” JFC
Do you think Bill Self would have any interest at all in coming back to Illinois to coach?
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You’re basically saying it. Because to be “flattered” by the interest he’d have to be seriously interested in returning amirite? Oh no, I’m not right. Sorry.
Nope, I'm not basically saying it. You made it up from whole cloth. Which seems to be the only way you really know how to argue, to be honest.
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“Special?” No. Perhaps MIGHT have an advantage or a foot in the door in some cases. Absolutely.
Sure - but that isn't based on program history or geography except for a very loose correlation.
We have some advantages in certain cases, as do lots of similar programs.
This notion that We're Illinois so of course a coach would be interested, of course Bill Self would be flattered, of course a kid who went to HS in Illinois four years ago holds a special place for the Illini in his heart, etc. is simply naive, video game fan stuff.
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Any interest in discussing what I actually said, or are you just going to keep building strawmans to beat on?
You’ve openly mocked the idea that Self would be “flattered” to hear from Illinois. What am I misunderstanding here?
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Sure - but that isn't based on program history or geography except for a very loose correlation.
We have some advantages in certain cases, as do lots of similar programs.
This notion that We're Illinois so of course a coach would be interested, of course Bill Self would be flattered, of course a kid who went to HS in Illinois four years ago holds a special place for the Illini in his heart, etc. is simply naive, video game fan stuff.
Except for the times when you know, we did have an advantage with kids. Say Ayo, Nick Anderson, Lowell Hamilton. And too many others to list. Or did manage to lure the hot coach. Bill Self. Or Lon Kruger who had coached a football school to a Final Four.
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You’ve openly mocked the idea that Self would be “flattered” to hear from Illinois. What am I misunderstanding here?
If you'd stuck with that instead of your wild extrapolations I wouldn't have said anything.
You used a dating analogy - let's say you used to date this girl, nice girl, nothing bad to say about her. You broke up with her, and she was upset about it for a long time. She never found anyone else she liked as much. Since then you've been in a relationship with one of the couple hottest girls in the school. Are you really going to be like "whoa, I'm so flattered" when that girl comes to you years later like "you want to try it again?" Or are you going to kind of chuckle at the notion, which obviously cannot remotely surprise you?
It's just a funny concept. Just send a text, maybe you'll flatter him!
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Except for the times when you know, we did have an advantage with kids. Say Ayo, Nick Anderson, Lowell Hamilton. And too many others to list. Or did manage to lure the hot coach. Bill Self. Or Lon Kruger who had coached a football school to a Final Four.
Oh, so do we have some advantages in certain cases?
Damn, I definitely should've mentioned that in my post.
You're confusing me saying "it's not some obvious given thing that because We're Illinois that an Illinois kid wants to come here, or the top coaching target (or in this case a dude who isn't even really a coaching target because he's a HOFer at a blue blood with a lifetime contract) is interested" with me saying "we have no chance at getting a good recruit or a good coach". I've never said or even implied the thing you're trying to hold me to, but if it weren't for just making something up that you think I believe and arguing against that instead of the words I actually type you wouldn't have anything to add.
I will say, we have zero chance of Self coming back to coach at Illinois and any "just send a text" thought from Whitman is the most grasping-at-straws wishful thinking I've ever heard of. Anyone who posted "Illinois should text Bill Self, see if he's interested in coming back" anywhere other than an Illini fan board is going to get laughed at way more than you were.
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Dee Brown. Frank Williams. Brian Cook. Jereme Richmond. Kenny Battle. Kendrick Nunn. Brandon Paul. Demtri McCamey. Deon Thomas. They all came to Illinois because…fuck, who knows?
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Dee Brown. Frank Williams. Brian Cook. Jereme Richmond. Kenny Battle. Kendrick Nunn. Brandon Paul. Demtri McCamey. Deon Thomas. They all came to Illinois because…fuck, who knows?
Someday you're going to accidentally stumble into arguing against something someone actually said.
This post, I assume, is simply agreeing with my clear assertion that sometimes we do have advantages in certain situations?
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Spark. The only thing I’m arguing with you is that Self would only laugh at being contacted by Illinois. You’re the one putting words in my mouth. Not the other way around. I’ve not tried to make the case that were equal to KU. Never. I’m only arguing that Illinois is POSSIBLY an attractive option for some people with ties to the school. Anything more than that and you’re putting words in my mouth.
Self wouldn’t have to have actual interest in coming back to be appreciative of an offer. Not at all.
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Someday you're going to accidentally stumble into arguing against something someone actually said.
This post, I assume, is simply agreeing with my clear assertion that sometimes we do have advantages in certain situations?
Seriously dude. Are you reading your posts today? You usually at least make sense when you are wrong.
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Spark. The only thing I’m arguing with you is that Self would only laugh at being contacted by Illinois. You’re the one putting words in my mouth. Not the other way around. I’ve not tried to make the case that were equal to KU. Never. I’m only arguing that Illinois is POSSIBLY an attractive option for some people with ties to the school. Anything more than that and you’re putting words in my mouth.
Self wouldn’t have to have actual interest in coming back to be appreciative of an offer. Not at all.
You've made like a dozen posts here arguing against things I never said anything remotely close to - sorry, but no, you're "putting words in my mouth" and absolutely demolishing some strawmen.
I don't disagree that sending Self a text doesn't cost anything; it just doesn't gain us anything either, outside of likely a little chortle from Self.
Ignoring that he likely wouldn't care or be surprised at all that the school he left 20 years ago for a blueblood would take him back, what does Self being flattered gain us exactly?
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Someday you're going to accidentally stumble into arguing against something someone actually said.
This post, I assume, is simply agreeing with my clear assertion that sometimes we do have advantages in certain situations?
“Proof that Illinois has no advantage with anyone whatsoever is that sometimes people don’t choose us.” - Spark Mandrill
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Seriously dude. Are you reading your posts today? You usually at least make sense when you are wrong.
I am, yes. One of us seems to not be though, or at best cannot understand them. You've argued multiple times today against things literally zero people have said.
You either can't understand my posts, or are simply railing on what you wish they said instead of what they actually said. Not sure which, but it's obviously something you've done with pretty stark consistency the entire time I've known you.
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Is that my fucking point? No.
Your first post in this mind exercise ...
"I got laughed at pretty heartily a handful of years back for suggesting the whoever it was at the time AD send out a feeler."
And you have no idea if a "feeler" was sent out and then you go on to if a feeler wasn't sent out, then the AD isn't reaching high enough.
Maybe you could send a text to the AD. It couldn't hurt. He may be flattered.
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“Proof that Illinois has no advantage with anyone whatsoever is that sometimes people don’t choose us.” - Spark Mandrill
When you're arguing that you're not putting words in anyone's mouth, making up a fake quote and attributing it to them isn't usually the best strategy.
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You've made like a dozen posts here arguing against things I never said anything remotely close to - sorry, but no, you're "putting words in my mouth" and absolutely demolishing some strawmen.
I don't disagree that sending Self a text doesn't cost anything; it just doesn't gain us anything either, outside of likely a little chortle from Self.
Ignoring that he likely wouldn't care or be surprised at all that the school he left 20 years ago for a blueblood would take him back, what does Self being flattered gain us exactly?
I’ve spent the last three pages arguing that Self doesn’t have to have actual interest in returning to Illinois to be appreciative (flattered) by contact from Illinois. You mocked that notion. Many times. That’s been 95% of the discussion for 3 pages. What do I have wrong here? Are you denying you mocked the idea Self might actually be flattered to hear from Illinois?
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I’ve spent the last three pages arguing that Self doesn’t have to have actual interest in returning to Illinois to be appreciative (flattered) by contact from Illinois. You mocked that notion. Many times. That’s been 95% of the discussion for 3 pages. What do I have wrong here? Are you denying you mocked the idea Self might actually be flattered to hear from Illinois?
I'm asking - let's say you're right, Self is super flattered that Illinois would like him to come back (ignoring that he absolutely already knows that, not just about Illinois but about 330ish of the 355 D1 programs) - what's the gain? What do we get out of it?
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When you're arguing that you're not putting words in anyone's mouth, making up a fake quote and attributing it to them isn't usually the best strategy.
Yeah, that one was done on purpose.
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Your first post in this mind exercise ...
"I got laughed at pretty heartily a handful of years back for suggesting the whoever it was at the time AD send out a feeler."
And you have no idea if a "feeler" was sent out and then you go on to if a feeler wasn't sent out, then the AD isn't reaching high enough.
Maybe you could send a text to the AD. It couldn't hurt. He may be flattered.
Something gives me the feeling Josh Whitman doesn’t spend much time on the agenda of program followers he doesn’t know exist.
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I'm asking - let's say you're right, Self is super flattered that Illinois would like him to come back (ignoring that he absolutely already knows that, not just about Illinois but about 330ish of the 355 D1 programs) - what's the gain? What do we get out of it?
“Super flattered” just shows that you have no interest in being sincere in this discussion.
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I love the fact that Spark just bases his comments off of his assumption that Self’s ego is the size of Mount Everest. Like Self isn’t human. He’s just an egobot who’s only satisfaction is derived from status.
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“Super flattered” just shows that you have no interest in being sincere in this discussion.
Change it to whatever word would make you not blatantly duck the question, then.
Even if Self is flattered in our interest, what do we gain from it?
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Change it to whatever word would make you not blatantly duck the question, then.
Even if Self is flattered in our interest, what do we gain from it?
Knowing that we took the biggest swing we could take. That’s it. Very high probability that swing misses. Harm done: Zip. Zero. Nada
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Also, sorry, but am I expected to believe that the guy who keeps ignoring my posts and arguing against shit I never said is "being sincere in this discussion"? You're literally completely ignoring everything I'm saying in favor of some shit you wish I said because it'd be easier to argue against.
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Knowing that we took the biggest swing we could take. That’s it. Very high probability that swing misses. Harm done: zip. Zero nada.
And zero gain. Zip. Zero nada.
Now we're back to where we started, Self may or may not be 'flattered' that we asked, and the point of doing this was .... ?
Should we text K too? Roy? Izzo? Anything less would be knowing that we didn't take the biggest swing we could take, right? At what point is it rational to stop taking the swings with 0% success rate and start swinging at something we might actually hit?
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I love the fact that Spark just bases his comments off of his assumption that Self’s ego is the size of Mount Everest. Like Self isn’t human. He’s just an egobot who’s only satisfaction is derived from status.
You simply cannot have an honest discussion, huh?
Every post you ignore what I say and tell me what I think. Like a dozen times already today.
How about you try for the rest of this discussion to avoid including anything in your posts that I didn't say or imply, or any interpretation of my comments outside of what I actually wrote. No strawmen. Can you even do that?
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And zero gain. Zip. Zero nada.
Now we're back to where we started, Self may or may not be 'flattered' that we asked, and the point of doing this was .... ?
Should we text K too? Roy? Izzo? Anything less would be knowing that we didn't take the biggest swing we could take, right? At what point is it rational to stop taking the swings with 0% success rate and start swinging at something we might actually hit?
Do you fucking even read what I write?
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Do you fucking even read what I write?
Yep, and try to respond to it even though it's - as is typical - totally separate from the shit I am actually saying.
Did you not say that the benefit is "knowing we took the biggest swing we could"? Why would we stop at Self, if that's the goal of the thing? There are other giant swings we could take with the same likelihood of success.
If that isn't the goal of texting him, then what is?
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Apparently Spark missed this one.
Again. The reason I say ask Self is because there is a personal connection there. It’s not like I’d say ask Izzo or Roy Williams.
Reminds me of a time an adorable little girl gave me her prized bag of bubble gum because we made a good connection on an afternoon I was hanging out with her mother and family. Obviously, as a grown man I wasn’t interested in a 5 year old girl. But it was still touching. And yes, funny!
Who knows, maybe Self in much the same way would get a laugh, but ALSO be flattered. Much like I was. Of course not. Because Self is a robot witht nothing but disdain and contempt for Illinois. We are soooo beneath him! Of course he’d laugh at us! Would probably share the message on Twitter to embarrass us!
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Apparently Spark missed this one.
Okay, let's say you're totally right.
Self is flattered we asked.
What did we get out of it? Don't say "knowing we took the biggest swing we could" because you acknowledged in your post you're not interested in all the biggest swings, only Self. And it's more or less, give or take a few tenths of a percent, just as likely Coach K comes and coaches us as Self.
By not texting K or Roy, aren't you not taking the biggest swing you could?
There are some swings out there of reasonable size that, were we in the need to, we could swing at and have more than 0% chance of hitting.
Do you think Self would consider coming back? Yes or no?
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Do you think Bill Self would have any interest at all in coming back to Illinois to coach?
Probably not. But maybe you can catch him at a time when he’s stressed about the off court issues at KU. Unrealistic expectations or feeling unappreciated. It’s an incredibly minute chance. But we have a history with the guy. No harm done reaching out. None. Nada. Zip. Zero.
He could come here with lower expectations and still crush. AGAIN…not saying that is at all likely. But you hit on exactly zero percent of the shots you do not take.
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You're right though, I DID miss that one where you had previously undercut the "biggest swing we can" thing. You reply to each of my posts like three or four times, some are bound to get missed.
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Probably not. But maybe you can catch him at a time when he’s stressed about the off court issues at KU. Unrealistic expectations or feeling unappreciated. It’s an incredibly minute chance. But we have a history with the guy. No harm done reaching out. None. Nada. Zip. Zero.
He could come here with lower expectations and still crush. AGAIN…not saying that is at all likely. But you hit on exactly zero percent of the shots you do not take.
So it seems maybe the thing here is actually that you think there's a chance he says yes.
And THIS is why you were made fun of.
Self is not coming back here.
As for the last line - well then why not shoot at K and Roy too? You go on and on about the biggest swing, missing all the shots you don't take - if that's the logic, then why stop at Self?
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Okay, let's say you're totally right.
Self is flattered we asked.
What did we get out of it? Don't say "knowing we took the biggest swing we could" because you acknowledged in your post you're not interested in all the biggest swings, only Self. And it's more or less, give or take a few tenths of a percent, just as likely Coach K comes and coaches us as Self.
By not texting K or Roy, aren't you not taking the biggest swing you could?
There are some swings out there of reasonable size that, were we in the need to, we could swing at and have more than 0% chance of hitting.
Do you think Self would consider coming back? Yes or no?
For the 18th time. We get the satisfaction of knowing we took the biggest swing we could take. And the harm to the program is: Zip. Zero. Nada.
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So it seems maybe the thing here is actually that you think there's a chance he says yes.
And THIS is why you were made fun of.
Self is not coming back here.
A very very remote chance. When the harm done is literally: Zip. Zero. Nada. I have no problem sending that message.
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For the 18th time. We get the satisfaction of knowing we took the biggest swing we could take. And the harm to the program is: Zip. Zero. Nada.
Ah, the satisfaction of knowing we took the biggest swing we could (as long as you ignore all the big swings we didn't take).
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A very very remote chance. When the harm done is literally: Zip. Zero. Nada. I have no problem sending that message.
And the gain is the same as the harm done, as has been mentioned. You get nothing out of it. It's a thing you're arguing for your own sake, not the program's - because the program gains literally nothing from it.
The AD could certainly lose some respect for it in CBB coaching circles. I'm sure you'll scoff at the idea because you think this is 2K, but it's a hell of a lot more likely than Self saying yes.
I don't have any problem with sending the text and getting a no. As you've mentioned, no harm done. I don't get the weird insistence that we should do that, though, because there's also no gain to be had. Self is not coming to coach here again.
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Did anyone see Germany reuniting 30 years ago? No…never say never.
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Did anyone see Germany reuniting 30 years ago? No…never say never.
Then why are we not texting all the best living coaches?
Never say never. Gotta take the biggest swing you can. Miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
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And the gain is the same as the harm done, as has been mentioned. You get nothing out of it. It's a thing you're arguing for your own sake, not the program's - because the program gains literally nothing from it.
And loses nothing from it. Except for some guy on the Internet would find the theoretical rejection embarrassing.
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Then why are we not texting all the best living coaches?
Never say never. Gotta take the biggest swing you can. Miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Because they don’t have any connection to Illinois. As small as the chance is Self returning to Illinois, it’s still greater than Roy Williams coming here from UNC. JFC
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And loses nothing from it. Except for some guy on the Internet would find the theoretical rejection embarrassing.
And gain nothing from it, except for some guy on the Internet being satisfied about the fact that we did it.
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Because they don’t have any connection to Illinois. As small as the chance is Self returning to Illinois, it’s still greater than Roy Williams coming here from UNC. JFC
In the same way that a drop of rain is more than no rain, yes.
The difference in likelihood is well within the margin of error, here. Roy Williams isn't coming to coach at Illinois, and neither is Self. We can argue that Roy Williams has a 0.00001% chance of saying yes and Self has a 0.001% chance of saying yes, but that's a huge waste of time. Neither of them are going to say yes.
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And gain nothing from it, except for some guy on the Internet being satisfied about the fact that we did it.
Can’t hit if you don’t shoot.
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I mean. Why not send a message that has no real downside to Self. “Hey man, how about a chance of scenery with less stress but still a high ceiling!”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kansas-basketball-coach-bill-self-suspended-4-games-fbi-investigation-college-basketball-corruption/
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Can’t hit if you don’t shoot.
I love how you switch, literally one post after another, between "gotta take the biggest swing you can"/"can't hit if you don't shoot" and "why would we text Roy and K who have no connection here?"
Gotta take the biggest swing you can, is why. Can't hit if you don't shoot. Maybe they'd say yes? Or be flattered we asked?
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Obviously, Whitman wouldn’t say it like that. But Self is a human being. Just like the rest of us.
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I mean. Why not send a message that has no real downside to Self. “Hey man, how about a chance of scenery with less stress but still a high ceiling!”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kansas-basketball-coach-bill-self-suspended-4-games-fbi-investigation-college-basketball-corruption/
Why not send a message that has no real downside to Roy Williams?
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I love how you switch, literally one post after another, between "gotta take the biggest swing you can"/"can't hit if you don't shoot" and "why would we text Roy and K who have no connection here?"
Gotta take the biggest swing you can, is why. Can't hit if you don't shoot. Maybe they'd say yes? Or be flattered we asked?
JFC. Talk about lack of nuance.
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Obviously, Whitman wouldn’t say it like that. But Self is a human being. Just like the rest of us.
So is Roy. Maybe he'd be flattered?
Why are you so bullish on Self and taking the biggest swing we can, but so resistant to sending a no-harm text to Roy Williams and Coach K?
Again, what it comes down to is you think Self might say yes. And again, that's why you're being made fun of.
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Why not send a message that has no real downside to Roy Williams?
I suppose you could. No downside.
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JFC. Talk about lack of nuance.
What nuance is involved in "take the biggest swing you can" exactly?
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I suppose you could. No downside.
Hahahahaha. Love it.
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So is Roy. Maybe he'd be flattered?
Why are you so bullish on Self and taking the biggest swing we can, but so resistant to sending a no-harm text to Roy Williams and Coach K?
Again, what it comes down to is you think Self might say yes. And again, that's why you're being made fun of.
Because Roy and K have never spoken fondly of their time coaching at Illinois.
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You never know when I guy might want to downsize. Especially when he’s dealt with federal probes and suspensions. Self has a history here. One he’s spoken fondly of. So yeah, as minute as that chance is, it’s greater than luring Roy or K. JFC
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Because Roy and K have never spoken fondly of their time coaching at Illinois.
And neither have they chosen to leave Illinois for a blue blood where they built a Hall of Fame career and gotten a lifetime contract.
Self is not coming here. If you’re wanting to send him the text because you think it might make him like us, might make him say something positive about us in the media out of flattery - then sure.
If you’re wanting to send the text because you think there’s a chance Self says “yeah, I’ll come back” then you’re wasting everyone’s time on pure fantasy nonsense.
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You never know when I guy might want to downsize. Especially when he’s dealt with federal probes and suspensions. Self has a history here. One he’s spoken fondly of. So yeah, as minute as that chance is, it’s greater than luring Roy or K. JFC
Yes, and again - a drop of rain is more than none at all. It’s not enough for me to grab my umbrella, though.
The chances that Self comes and coaches here and K comes and coaches here are, within a couple tenths of a percentage point, identical. Like, neither one of them are coming.
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Never once made the case it was at all likely. I’ve wasted too much time on this stupid debate the last 24 hours. Have a great afternoon.
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Never once made the case it was at all likely. I’ve wasted too much time on this stupid debate the last 24 hours. Have a great afternoon.
No, but your entire argument is based on the Dumb and Dumber “so you’re saying there’s a chance” scene.
There are a ton of things we could do, people we could reach out to if the argument is “there’s a non-zero chance”. There’s a non zero chance of just about anything that’s physically possible. Wasting time on things where “there’s a non zero chance” is meant as literal, I.e. it’s non zero but practically there is zero chance, seems useless to me.
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What does Bill Belichick think of the culture at Illinois?
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What does Bill Belichick think of the culture at Illinois?
Pudwhack troll #2 chimes in.
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No, but your entire argument is based on the Dumb and Dumber “so you’re saying there’s a chance” scene.
There are a ton of things we could do, people we could reach out to if the argument is “there’s a non-zero chance”. There’s a non zero chance of just about anything that’s physically possible. Wasting time on things where “there’s a non zero chance” is meant as literal, I.e. it’s non zero but practically there is zero chance, seems useless to me.
You may disagree but I’d say there’s a 1-2% chance Self would be receptive. Which is about 1-2% higher than Roy.
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You may disagree but I’d say there’s a 1-2% chance Self would be receptive. Which is about 1-2% higher than Roy.
Yeah, no. No wonder you think you're making some reasonable point.
If the idea to text him is borne from the notion that he might say yes to you then you're wasting everybody's time.
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Did anyone really think Brad Steven's was going to say yes? We offered him
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Yeah, no. No wonder you think you're making some reasonable point.
If the idea to text him is borne from the notion that he might say yes to you then you're wasting everybody's time.
You disagree that there’s a 1-2% chance he’d be interested. Congrats, your award for disagreeing on a point neither of us can prove or disprove will be hung in the ladies room. Well done.
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There is a ZERO percent chance would ever want to return to Illinois. Because Spark knows people in the industry.
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Pudwhack troll #2 chimes in.
Jobu was far better and more concise than the last 5 pages that proved the point of the dumbass article you linked.
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You disagree that there’s a 1-2% chance he’d be interested. Congrats, your award for disagreeing on a point neither of us can prove or disprove will be hung in the ladies room. Well done.
Correct, that's at least 10x too high.
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Jobu was far better and more concise than the last 5 pages that proved the point of the dumbass article you linked.
It's ok. He's really angry with me. It's all part of the "that time of the month" process. When the hormones settle down, he will too.
Yeah, this fucking thread has been a wonderful disaster to watch this afternoon. Classic Spark v. Tempo stupidity. This should be appointment Friday afternoon viewing.
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There is a ZERO percent chance would ever want to return to Illinois. Because Spark knows people in the industry.
I pretty specifically said there wasn't a zero chance, not that - apparently - what I actually say is relevant to you.
What I said was, it's practically zero. There's some percentage point of a percentage chance he'd say yes, but it's not very much higher than the odds of a Coach K saying yes. He's not coming here, and if the goal of texting him is thinking "so you're saying there's a chance?" like Lloyd Christmas, then it's probably a waste of time.
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Spark knows people. But how well does he know Bill Self and his mindset after federal probes, suspensions, and 20 years of unreasonably high expectations?
Zero percent. Spark said so.
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After federal probes, suspensions, heart issues, and 20 years of unreasonable expectations despite phenomenal results, there is a ZERO percent chance Self would depressurize or even entertain returning to Illinois. I KNOW this because I fucking know people. And I talk to them. Ok?
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Some day you'll stumble into arguing against something I didn't very specifically clarify that I didn't mean in my very last post.
(https://media.tenor.com/-4NwvZzmSbQAAAAC/it-is-not-this-day-not-today.gif)
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Imagine having a discussion with someone and saying "I'm pretty specifically not saying there's NO chance, but that the chance is so small it's not really worth discussing" and immediately they respond with two posts saying "ZERO CHANCE, HE SAID SO".
Absolutely could not make it up. You're remarkably bad at this given how much experience you have.
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So, who the fuck is trolling who here? I've lost track.
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Question for Spark. Do you think Self would be “flattered” if UNC reached out to him?
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Some day you'll stumble into arguing against something I didn't very specifically clarify that I didn't mean in my very last post.
(https://media.tenor.com/-4NwvZzmSbQAAAAC/it-is-not-this-day-not-today.gif)
No way Self could be “flattered,” and definitely not “super flattered” by Illinois reaching out to him. Zero percent chance. I know and talk to people.
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Imagine having a discussion with someone and saying "I'm pretty specifically not saying there's NO chance, but that the chance is so small it's not really worth discussing" and immediately they respond with two posts saying "ZERO CHANCE, HE SAID SO".
Absolutely could not make it up. You're remarkably bad at this given how much experience you have.
Yes because 1% is way beyond the pale. Dude, 1%?! Be reasonable! It’s more like 1/10th of 1%!
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No way Self could be “flattered,” and definitely not “super flattered” by Illinois reaching out to him. Zero percent chance. I know and talk to people.
Okay, you're doing the "attributing a quote to you that directly contradicts something you actually posted" thing on purpose now, right?
Like within seconds you apparently intentionally misrepresent every single post I make.
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Yes because 1% is way beyond the pale. Dude, 1%?! Be reasonable! It’s more like 1/10th of 1%!
Correct. If you think there's a 1% chance Self says yes you're massively overstating the chances.
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Imagine saying something like “I’m not saying it’s a zero percent chance.” But then ridiculing 1% as way too high a chance…
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Imagine saying something like “I’m not saying it’s a zero percent chance.” But then ridiculing 1% as way too high a chance…
Imagine that 0/100 and 1/100 mean different things. What a strange world that must be to live in.
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Imagine that 0/100 and 1/100 mean different things. What a strange world that must be to live in.
What? You say I’m not saying a zero percent chance, but 1% is laughable. What am I getting wrong here? This is so fucking bizarre.
And again, the original point of contention was that Self might actually have an ounce or two of humility in him and be “flattered” fo hear from Illinois. JFC
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Imagine that 0/100 and 1/100 mean different things. What a strange world that must be to live in.
1 isn’t greater than zero? Is that what you’re saying?
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What? You say I’m not saying a zero percent chance, but 1% is laughable. What am I getting wrong here? This is so fucking bizarre.
And again, the original point of contention was that Self might actually have an ounce or two of humility in him and be “flattered” fo hear from Illinois. JFC
Are 0% and 1% the same?
The chances Self agrees to come back here are almost surely between those two numbers. Quite a bit closer to 0% than 1% is smart money.
I have never said one single word about Self's humility or lack thereof, never met the guy. You made that talking point up completely out of thin air. Like you have most of your talking points today, and for the last decade.
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If someone offered you a lottery ticket for 1 millions bucks and said there’s a 1% chance you win. Would you refuse the ticket because “there’s no chance?”
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1 isn’t greater than zero? Is that what you’re saying?
I'm saying that a 1% chance is greater than a 0% chance, yes. As is a 0.01% chance.
Do I need to explain that further? Seems like you're struggling with the "a 0% chance means something different than a non-0% chance" thing.
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If someone offered you a lottery ticket for 1 millions bucks and said there’s a 1% chance you win. Would you refuse the ticket because “there’s no chance?”
Nope.
Did you think that was a good analogy? It absolutely wasn't.
If someone offered you one lottery ticket with a 1% chance to win and another with a 0% chance to win, do they have the same odds? Or is 1% different than 0%?
If I said about one event, this happens about 1 time out of 100, and another event, this has never and could never happen - do the events have the same odds of occurring? Or is one far more likely?
As a reminder, it's YOU, not me, that's insisting that me saying "there's a non-zero chance but it's so unlikely that it isn't worth spending time on" is the same as me saying, in your words over and over, "ZERO PERCENT CHANCE". I've been exceedingly clear that I don't think it's a zero. I definitely don't think it's 1/50 or 1/100 though. I think it's much, much closer to the odds that Coach K comes back to coach us than you want to admit - both are non-zero, but so unlikely that they aren't really worth discussing much.
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The notion that a coach is completely devoid of humility or sentimentality because he now coaches at a blue blood is just totally bizarre to me. I think there are a few coaches who might fit that mold, but Self isn’t one of them.
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Ok, we're on page 78. If you fuckers don't make it to page 90 with this bullshit, I'm gonna be real disappointed.
Sadly, I have nothing going on tonight. Make it happen.
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The notion that a coach is completely devoid of humility or sentimentality because he now coaches at a blue blood is just totally bizarre to me. I think there are a few coaches who might fit that mold, but Self isn’t one of them.
Yes Tempo but surely you realize that the notion that "a coach is completely devoid of humility or sentimentality" is something YOU said and notably not something I said. I haven't said anything even remotely approaching that, and you have claimed I believe that like 5 times now.
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Are 0% and 1% the same?
The chances Self agrees to come back here are almost surely between those two numbers. Quite a bit closer to 0% than 1% is smart money.
I have never said one single word about Self's humility or lack thereof, never met the guy. You made that talking point up completely out of thin air. Like you have most of your talking points today, and for the last decade.
Your ironclad conclusion that “he would laugh at us” is a firm implication you think he lacks humility. Is that not a reasonable assumption?
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Question for Spark. Do you think Self would be “flattered” if UNC reached out to him?
I’d love to get an answer to this one.
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Yes Tempo but surely you realize that the notion that "a coach is completely devoid of humility or sentimentality" is something YOU said and notably not something I said. I haven't said anything even remotely approaching that, and you have claimed I believe that like 5 times now.
“Self would laugh at us.”
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He’d be “super flattered.”
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I’d love to get an answer to this one.
If UNC was open, I doubt Self would be remotely surprised or care all that much one way or the other that they were interested in him. He's maybe THE top coach in the country, everybody would love to have him if they have an opening. Not like it'd be some heartwarming surprise that a blue blood (or in our case, just a good program he left a couple decades ago) would be interested in him coaching there.
This is another post, though, that if I said anything remotely similar you would be like "SPARK THINKS UNC AND ILLINOIS ARE SIMILAR" for a decade no matter how many times I pointed out that no, I didn't say anything even close to that.
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“Self would laugh at us.”
I mean, yes, almost certainly he'd get a chuckle out of the idea.
You projected the rest of the made up nonsense you attributed to me.
Just TRY, once, to argue using only the things I actually said, and not the wild extrapolations you so consistently attribute to me falsely. Just once.
Like, when I use a direct quote from you you accuse me of "lacking nuance", but when I clarify my point a dozen times you still repeat it falsely for years based on what you wished I'd said, and totally ignoring what I actually said.
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I mean, yes, almost certainly he'd get a chuckle out of the idea.
You projected the rest of the made up nonsense you attributed to me.
Just TRY, once, to argue using only the things I actually said, and not the wild extrapolations you so consistently attribute to me falsely. Just once.
Like, when I use a direct quote from you you accuse me of "lacking nuance", but when I clarify my point a dozen times you still repeat it falsely for years based on what you wished I'd said, and totally ignoring what I actually said.
Yes, just as I/we got a chuckle out of when that little girl gave me her beloved bag of bubble gum. But it was still a gesture that made me feel good. Because, you know, I’m fucking human and not only concerned with my status among my peers.
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So it appears that you’re not saying “zero percent,” but “1% is way too high!” Does 1/3 of 1% sound less laughable?
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The things you said were “he would laugh at us. No chance.”
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I’m sure he’d be flattered - who wouldn’t be, we’re Illinois!
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Spark knows people. Especially Bill Self.
I don't think Bill Self would be remotely surprised or care to know that Illinois would want him back if he was interested, no. I don't think sending a text accomplishes a single thing. Does it hurt? No. You'll get laughed at, obviously, but it doesn't cost anything. It's just a funny concept. "Sure he'll laugh at you but what does it hurt to send a text?" Nothing, it doesn't gain or lose a single thing. It's totally meaningless.
I view this as someone who's seen the inner workings of high level CBB a little bit. You view it as an Illinois fan, and never consider that not everyone sees that the same way you do.
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If you'd stuck with that instead of your wild extrapolations I wouldn't have said anything.
You used a dating analogy - let's say you used to date this girl, nice girl, nothing bad to say about her. You broke up with her, and she was upset about it for a long time. She never found anyone else she liked as much. Since then you've been in a relationship with one of the couple hottest girls in the school. Are you really going to be like "whoa, I'm so flattered" when that girl comes to you years later like "you want to try it again?" Or are you going to kind of chuckle at the notion, which obviously cannot remotely surprise you?
It's just a funny concept. Just send a text, maybe you'll flatter him!
Of course I’d be flattered. Or maybe I’d “laugh at her.” Who knows…
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About 10 years ago I ran into a woman at Arlington Race Track that I dated when we were 18/19ish. Said she was recently divorced and indicated she’d like to see me. I wasn’t interested. I was however flattered.
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So it appears that you’re not saying “zero percent,” but “1% is way too high!” Does 1/3 of 1% sound less laughable?
Certainly closer, yeah.
1% is about 2.5x the chances a given birth is twins, but I doubt if someone mentioned that the odds were low a pregnant woman would say "SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S ZERO CHANCE I HAVE TWINS!?" I assume you've known a fair number of sets of twins.
I'm not sure what the odds really are, obviously, other than that it's both got a non-zero possibility of happening, and that the possibility of it happening is so low that it's barely worth discussing at all.
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Spark knows people. Especially Bill Self.
This is like the 15th time today you've made a claim about me that I'd previously explicitly said the opposite of - so I guess the answer to my "can you just try once" question is a resounding no. You cannot argue without making things up that I've already directly contradicted and attributing them to me.
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The things you said were “he would laugh at us. No chance.”
I went back and did a search for this quote. I found three hits for the phrase "no chance".
The first two were me saying incredibly clearly, "I'm not saying there's no chance." The third was this one where you attribute a quote to me where I said "there's no chance".
Perfect Tempo.
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I'm serious now, because it's way less fun to argue with you when I have to defend all the shit I didn't say rather than the things I did say.
Can you please try, going forward, to not make shit up and attribute it to me while arguing? To debate using only the things I actually posted? You've done it literally probably 25 times today.
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About 10 years ago I ran into a woman at Arlington Race Track that I dated when we were 18/19ish. Said she was recently divorced and indicated she’d like to see me. I wasn’t interested. I was however flattered.
Was she Asian? If so, give Jobu her contact info.
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I'm serious now, because it's way less fun to argue with you when I have to defend all the shit I didn't say rather than the things I did say.
Can you please try, going forward, to not make shit up and attribute it to me while arguing? To debate using only the things I actually posted? You've done it literally probably 25 times today.
I guffawed.
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I went back and did a search for this quote. I found three hits for the phrase "no chance".
The first two were me saying incredibly clearly, "I'm not saying there's no chance." The third was this one where you attribute a quote to me where I said "there's no chance".
Perfect Tempo.
I'm not saying there's "no chance," but 1% is laughably too high. And 1/3 of 1% probably still too high.But I'm not saying no chance.- Spark Mandrill
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Or I should say "perfect Spark Mandrill." Quibbling over the most minute of minute details.
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Gonna take that as a no.
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Dude. You literally scoffed at the idea Self could possibly do anything but “laugh at us,” and took issue with 1% fucking chance after you conceded there was a very small chance. What choice do i have but to make fun of that? “1% oh that’s way too high! But I’m not saying there’s no chance.” You literally seem offended by the idea Self could be flattered or even “super flattered” by being contacted by Illinois. JFC
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Just fucking round up 1, dude…JFC
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I guffawed.
You’re the same idiot that agreed with me when I said we’re not aiming high enough if we never hear “no.”
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Come on guys, we’re only on page 80. Pick up the fucking pace.
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The guy who says he “Never said there was no chance,” but then pushed back mightily on a 1% estimate as way too high is upset his statements aren’t being fairly represented. Can’t make this deliciousness up.
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And believing that Self could “only laugh at Illinois,” an institution he poured his heart and soul into for three years at, has talked about fondly, and probably still has friends at is incredibly jaded and cynical.
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Yep, and try to respond to it even though it's - as is typical - totally separate from the shit I am actually saying.
Did you not say that the benefit is "knowing we took the biggest swing we could"? Why would we stop at Self, if that's the goal of the thing? There are other giant swings we could take with the same likelihood of success.
If that isn't the goal of texting him, then what is?
Pretty amazing you can’t distinguish the difference between a guy who coached here, still probably has friends here, speaks fondly of his time here; and Roy Williams. But here we are. And yes, the chances of Self ever returning are very very low. Both can be true.
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Much much less than 1%. But more than 0%. Or so I’m told. Somewhere in the .10 percentile to be exact.
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I shouldn't have been so dismissive of 1%. I apologize. I do not believe the chances are that good.
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They’re low. Quite low.
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I’d say they are zero percent if no one reaches out to him. If Whitman reaches out to him, that skyrockets to close to 1%.
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You’re the same idiot that agreed with me when I said we’re not aiming high enough if we never hear “no.”
It was idiotic to agree with you that they may as well contact Self?
I can still laugh at whatever Spark and you are arguing about.
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It was idiotic to agree with you that they may as well contact Self?
I can still laugh at whatever Spark and you are arguing about.
No, you’re the idiot crocodilian brain that won’t miss an opportunity to pile on. It’s your schtick.
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No, you’re the idiot crocodilian brain that won’t miss an opportunity to pile on. It’s your schtick.
I can't even win when I agree with you. SMDH.
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So what I took out of all this is basically Tempo just wants to flatter Bill Self and make him feel good. If that’s the case Tempo, then why don’t you just message him on Twitter and ask him out yourself?!
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So what I took out of all this is basically Tempo just wants to flatter Bill Self and make him feel good. If that’s the case Tempo, then why don’t you just message him on Twitter and ask him out yourself?!
We’ve already determined that Bill Self is incapable of being flattered. He’s a soulless robot whose entire identity is wrapped up in his status (and advancing that status). He would literally mock and laugh at anything that is “beneath him.” Which is everything. Advancement in status is the only thing that appeals to him. So, like maybe God or King of Basketball. That’s about the only way you might move any needles with him. Anything less would clearly be worthy of mockery and scorn.
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I was in Knoxville TN for an event Wednesday and Thursday. I met a guy who works for the UT NIL collective. It was absolutely fascinating listening to him describe how all this stuff works. He is tied in with all the coaching staffs and recruitments.
I asked him what they typically raise in NIL and he said that they “need to raise 25 million this year.” The way they are setting things up is that fully expect a collective bargaining agreement to be reached where the schools are all paying players directly. The NIL money will essentially then be a slush fund for elite level recruits.
I asked him about if the NIL stuff cannibalizes the donations to the athletic department, and he said yeah it’s basically just robbing Peter to pay Paul, wherein Paul represents the players. It’s the Wild West and everyone is just flying by the seats of their pants to raise enough money to get top players.
But anyways I couldn’t find another thread for this so I put it here because it’s clear there are people that are really connected to the athletic programs and know what’s happening in these recruitments especially now with all the money flowing through NIL.
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I was in Knoxville TN for an event Wednesday and Thursday. I met a guy who works for the UT NIL collective. It was absolutely fascinating listening to him describe how all this stuff works. He is tied in with all the coaching staffs and recruitments.
I asked him what they typically raise in NIL and he said that they “need to raise 25 million this year.” The way they are setting things up is that fully expect a collective bargaining agreement to be reached where the schools are all paying players directly. The NIL money will essentially then be a slush fund for elite level recruits.
I asked him about if the NIL stuff cannibalizes the donations to the athletic department, and he said yeah it’s basically just robbing Peter to pay Paul, wherein Paul represents the players. It’s the Wild West and everyone is just flying by the seats of their pants to raise enough money to get top players.
But anyways I couldn’t find another thread for this so I put it here because it’s clear there are people that are really connected to the athletic programs and know what’s happening in these recruitments especially now with all the money flowing through NIL.
XQ2 should sponsor a player and have him mention whenever interviewed
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XQ2 should sponsor a player and have him mention whenever interviewed
This is genius!
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Our budget would probably only be able to accommodate a walk on. But hey if it gets us MiniDitka and Royko back, it’s worth it.
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Big meltdowns on loyalty lately
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Oh yeah? Ok.
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Yeah what happened
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Big news this week?
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Wow narrowj?
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Spill the tea homie
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Prominent highly opinionated loyalty poster.
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What happened
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nevermond
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nevermond
Tyler news?
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I had posted something there and caused some drama. But I don't wanna bring it here
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I had posted something there and caused some drama. But I don't wanna bring it here
If there is anything we need, it's sports-related drama! Better than the Custard is Fat meme! Bring it, Jasn!
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If there is anything we need, it's sports-related drama! Better than the Custard is Fat meme! Bring it, Jasn!
no its ok. i dont wanna lead a argument
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Tired of reading about kenpom and offensive rating and torka
Guess what?
Analytics don't win championships
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Three posters on loyalty who are very pro underwood