IlliniHQ 2
General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: frankiew on March 17, 2023, 11:12:42 AM
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Mayer --Gone
TSJ--Rumor is he wants to come back
Hawkins- back or draft
Rumor is Epps is gone unless Underwood can get him to come back. They lost him after NW game
Staff isn't high on Harris form what I read---couldn't be next Luther Head?
Danja is conflicting reports
Goode back for sure, Melendez?
Ty will be back
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Underwood
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Harris looked beat up at the end of the year, I think the concussion fucked some things up and my god he needs to practice shooting freethrows and from everywhere else, he has the quickness to get to the rack but lacks the strength to finish as well, lot of work needed hopefully he commits to getting that done this summer. Would be helpful to have some teammates that call out screens as well... sigh
Epps is interesting, I think he could be a good player but clearly his attitude shifted at some point during the year and maybe that was when harris started over him? Who knows, kids are such bitches these days, if he left, that would suck because of his potential, but fuck we need a point guard, even though that's not really his forte. At least he tries to score points.
Mayer - supposedly the team cancer after reading some things on le reddit, bye bye, enjoy playing in China or something
TSJ - if he wants to come back you take him 100%
Hawkins isn't ready for the NBA at all, one more year would do him some good
Dainja - showed flashes, really needs to keep working on his body and freethrows, after the concussion he wasn't the same either
I would imagine Goode and Melendez will be back, never know though
Only lock i'd say to come back is Ty Rodgers who can't shoot for shit lol
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Epps and Danja are probably gone.
Goode, Rogers, and Melendez are likely back.
Starting to sound like TSJ and Hawkins are more likely to return for another season. Especially TSJ.
Harris no one has really spoken of anything about where he stands.
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Harris looked beat up at the end of the year, I think the concussion fucked some things up and my god he needs to practice shooting freethrows and from everywhere else, he has the quickness to get to the rack but lacks the strength to finish as well, lot of work needed hopefully he commits to getting that done this summer. Would be helpful to have some teammates that call out screens as well... sigh
Epps is interesting, I think he could be a good player but clearly his attitude shifted at some point during the year and maybe that was when harris started over him? Who knows, kids are such bitches these days, if he left, that would suck because of his potential, but fuck we need a point guard, even though that's not really his forte. At least he tries to score points.
Mayer - supposedly the team cancer after reading some things on le reddit, bye bye, enjoy playing in China or something
TSJ - if he wants to come back you take him 100%
Hawkins isn't ready for the NBA at all, one more year would do him some good
Dainja - showed flashes, really needs to keep working on his body and freethrows, after the concussion he wasn't the same either
I would imagine Goode and Melendez will be back, never know though
Only lock i'd say to come back is Ty Rodgers who can't shoot for shit lol
Mayer - supposedly the team cancer after reading some things on le reddit, bye bye, enjoy playing in China or something
where you see this?
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"Epps wanted no part of what Underwood was saying. Looks like he gave him a bump at the end also?"
https://twitter.com/_MarcusD3_/status/1627029957103996928?t=MMV61FRkKpE0r2YVba2QGA&s=19
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Mayer - supposedly the team cancer after reading some things on le reddit, bye bye, enjoy playing in China or something
where you see this?
some tidbits in here, its reddit so it could be patently false /shrug
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/11t9083/post_game_thread_8_arkansas_defeats_9_illinois/
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This whole team should eat a lot of beans in the offseason
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Shannon is GONE. He went thru senior day and coming back to college for a 5th season of basketball does nothing for his draft stock. I’m certain he can make more money in the G League or Europe.
Hawkins- I think he will be back. I don’t think he is good enough to play in the G League or be drafted so IL is his best option.
Melendez- I think he will come back knowing he has a primary scoring role on the team.
Epps- probably gone and would have good portal offers.
Rodgers- he will be back as long as Anderson is Asst Coach
Goode- he will be back.
Lieb- will be back
Harris- will be back
Dainja- I think its 50/50. He never looked like he ever had fun playing and always was frowning on the bench.
I think next year starters will be
Harris
Rodgers
Melendez
Goode
Hawkins
It’s gonna be ugly.
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Harris is staying
https://twitter.com/SencireH/status/1636859034736250882
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I believe Harris was better than Epps at most things. Horrible at free throws but Epps was a liability on defense. Harris was even a better 3pt shooter.
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Shannon is GONE. He went thru senior day and coming back to college for a 5th season of basketball does nothing for his draft stock. I’m certain he can make more money in the G League or Europe.
Hawkins- I think he will be back. I don’t think he is good enough to play in the G League or be drafted so IL is his best option.
Melendez- I think he will come back knowing he has a primary scoring role on the team.
Epps- probably gone and would have good portal offers.
Rodgers- he will be back as long as Anderson is Asst Coach
Goode- he will be back.
Lieb- will be back
Harris- will be back
Dainja- I think its 50/50. He never looked like he ever had fun playing and always was frowning on the bench.
I think next year starters will be
Harris
Rodgers
Melendez
Goode
Hawkins
It’s gonna be ugly.
17-16 again?
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Will be surprised if Shannon returns. Seems he'll get drafted in the second round. Same for Hawkins
If both return, this will be a very talented team. Just need a transfer pg
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I think next year starters will be
Harris
Rodgers
Melendez
Goode
Hawkins
It’s gonna be ugly.
Awfully sad that we can't bring in transfers or continue recruiting.
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Awfully sad that we can't bring in transfers or continue recruiting.
He’s an idiot and doesn’t understand…
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Time for Edey to hit the portal and Illinois throw him a huge NIL offer.
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Will be surprised if Shannon returns. Seems he'll get drafted in the second round. Same for Hawkins
lol you're joking right
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lol you're joking right
They've both been listed as 2nd round picks in several drafts boards throughout the season.
I was surprised to see Hawkins listed. He's very flawed.
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They've both been listed as 2nd round picks in several drafts boards throughout the season.
I was surprised to see Hawkins listed. He's very flawed.
Shannon's fumbleitis has hurt his stock. His mom has been telling people he'll probably come back.
Hawkins will declare, get feedback, and make a decision.
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Shannon's fumbleitis has hurt his stock. His mom has been telling people he'll probably come back.
Hawkins will declare, get feedback, and make a decision.
I'm seeing both Shannon and Hawkins in the mid-40's. Would be smart for Hawkins to return. He's not close to ready for the pro game.
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Harris is staying
https://twitter.com/SencireH/status/1636859034736250882
He just deleted this tweet.
Ruh roh.
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Shannon's fumbleitis has hurt his stock. His mom has been telling people he'll probably come back.
Hawkins will declare, get feedback, and make a decision.
No she hasn’t. Stop believing the same idiots on Loyalty that said Kofi was coming back.
Shannon is gone. Period
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Shannon getting drafted I could see. Hawkins getting drafted or even being in any mocks is just bizarre. He was awful this year.
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Feeling I got from this team especially towards the end and in regards to decisions.
Mayer - Gone obviously, looked disinterested, annoyed, frustrated at the end, probably regrets X-fering in to ILL.
TSJ - Will come back based on feedback, professional options, want to play at ILL.
Hawkins - Shows flashes, but NBA drafts on potential, and well Coleman has been showing flashes of potential for several years now...hasn't fullfilled any potential enough to stay on a NBA bench.
Harris - Should stay and be a solid player for us
Epps - Plays PG pretty well, just think he would rather play off ball or just plain ball over Harris....disappointing end of season, probably leaves.
Dainja stays and continues to get in better shape.
Melendez - Got alot more PT towards the end, not by accident, BU must have seen the writing on the wall, and knew he HAD to get him involved in order to hope and keep him....gut tells me he leaves though.
Goode - We need him to transfer, solid shooter, does nothing else really.
Rodgers - Will end up being an ILLINI great as far as poster child for the program before all is done, very good typical ILLINI player, good, not great.
Needs either via portal or HS (not much available, none ready to contribute) next year.
PG, PG, PG.....get a stud already- Basili from L-Ville/Leggett from RI...played with Amani H in HS I believe.
C, C, C,.....Get some length and athleticism - Wilson from G-Town/Aimaq from TTech, played with TSJ.
Assuming Melendez/Rodgers/Goode all come back the wing is our least important areas. That said there are alot of athletic wing/guard types already in the portal from major conference teams. UNC being one of the biggest contributors so far.
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Shannon getting drafted I could see. Hawkins getting drafted or even being in any mocks is just bizarre. He was awful this year.
I guess I didn't watch enough basketball to be able to figure out how Hawkins is a draft pick and Kofi wasn't.
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Feeling I got from this team especially towards the end and in regards to decisions.
Mayer - Gone obviously, looked disinterested, annoyed, frustrated at the end, probably regrets X-fering in to ILL.
TSJ - Will come back based on feedback, professional options, want to play at ILL.
Hawkins - Shows flashes, but NBA drafts on potential, and well Coleman has been showing flashes of potential for several years now...hasn't fullfilled any potential enough to stay on a NBA bench.
Harris - Should stay and be a solid player for us
Epps - Plays PG pretty well, just think he would rather play off ball or just plain ball over Harris....disappointing end of season, probably leaves.
Dainja stays and continues to get in better shape.
Melendez - Got alot more PT towards the end, not by accident, BU must have seen the writing on the wall, and knew he HAD to get him involved in order to hope and keep him....gut tells me he leaves though.
Goode - We need him to transfer, solid shooter, does nothing else really.
Rodgers - Will end up being an ILLINI great as far as poster child for the program before all is done, very good typical ILLINI player, good, not great.
Needs either via portal or HS (not much available, none ready to contribute) next year.
PG, PG, PG.....get a stud already- Basili from L-Ville/Leggett from RI...played with Amani H in HS I believe.
C, C, C,.....Get some length and athleticism - Wilson from G-Town/Aimaq from TTech, played with TSJ.
Assuming Melendez/Rodgers/Goode all come back the wing is our least important areas. That said there are alot of athletic wing/guard types already in the portal from major conference teams. UNC being one of the biggest contributors so far.
No big arguments with this except I think we need Goode to stick around. He’s long, he can shoot, he plays smart, and he defends. Shame he wasn’t healthy this season, we could have really used him. What we got to see of him the end of the season after sitting out for months probably isn’t an accurate snapshot of what he can bring to the team long term.
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No big arguments with this except I think we need Goode to stick around. He’s long, he can shoot, he plays smart, and he defends. Shame he wasn’t healthy this season, we could have really used him. What we got to see of him the end of the season after sitting out for months probably isn’t an accurate snapshot of what he can bring to the team long term.
No big argument here either. I agree about Goode. If nothing else, we need shooters. Epps, I'm just not sure about him. Too small for off guard, matador defense, and not a good passer. In retrospect, I'm wondering if we'd have been better off disdaining transfers and playing the frosh like O$U. Underwood was safe and after the massive talent loss, expectations for this year weren't very high a year ago.
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We have too many scholarships open rotation spots to push someone like Goode out.
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I think Epps and Dainja transfer.
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We have too many scholarships open rotation spots to push someone like Goode out.
I agree, but I think we SHOULD be able to do better, Goode can shoot, and Rah Rah. not enamored with defense, although some are?
In light of what we can get now....Goode is better than most options imo...concentrate on PG and Athletic Bigs. If Goode leaves/pushed then so be it.
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No big arguments with this except I think we need Goode to stick around. He’s long, he can shoot, he plays smart, and he defends. Shame he wasn’t healthy this season, we could have really used him. What we got to see of him the end of the season after sitting out for months probably isn’t an accurate snapshot of what he can bring to the team long term.
I agree the capsule of work is minimal, that said, not sure he can be anything other than a good ILLINI, and that is just not what we need moving forward. If he is okay with coming off the bench, maybe, but not sure that will continue.
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Goode is a 4 year developmental player that has the physical tools and shooting ability to be a good to very good Big Ten player if he stays healthy. He’s not going to be our primary guy, and he’ll hopefully never be asked to. He’s got a little Lucas Johnson in his game and attitude and I like it. There are spots for guys like that on championship caliber teams.
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Goode also has a great attitude and listens to the coaches.
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Goode also has a great attitude and listens to the coaches.
And has a clean driving record (as far as we know).
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And has a clean driving record (as far as we know).
Well that's Goode to know.
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Payton Sparks has been contacted by Illinois and a myriad of other schools already.
Freshman Ball State player.
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Skip this drivers license business.
The capacity to be coached card is what this staff needs to look at.
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Goode is the type of kid who goes to Wisconsin or Iowa, does squat for 2 years, and then starts on a team that finishes like 3rd in the B1G and is a 4 seed.
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Goode is the type of kid who goes to Wisconsin or Iowa, does squat for 2 years, and then starts on a team that finishes like 3rd in the B1G and is a 4 seed.
Sounds like coded language
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Sounds like coded language
Don't worry, Squeaky will be all over it.
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I hope Goode stays because I like having guys that look like Opie Taylor on the team.
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Sounds like coded language
I giggled.
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For a team that can't shoot jack squat from 3 point land, I don't see the value in running off the only guy that can make any of those shots.
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Goode is also great at spacing and getting into open spots rather than jacking contested threes. The more I think about it the more I think he’s probably the smartest player on this team of morons.
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Goode is also great at spacing and getting into open spots rather than jacking contested threes. The more I think about it the more I think he’s probably the smartest player on this team of morons.
This.
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This.
Don't you have to change your sig now since IVMP got banned?
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Don't you have to change your sig now since IVMP got banned?
Good point
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Goode is Miller Kopp. Irrelevant to winning
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Evidently, the coaching staff asked Harris to the delete that tweet. Staying should be the default.
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Evidently, the coaching staff asked Harris to the delete that tweet. Staying should be the default.
No they didn't. Players have been announcing they are coming back for years.
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Squeaky = IVMP is a match.
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Sounds like coded language
100%, Goode seems very coachable.
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100%, Goode seems very coachable.
Sharpshooter. What he lacks in athleticism, he makes up for in high basketball IQ. Hard worker, lunch pail guy.
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Goode is also great at spacing and getting into open spots rather than jacking contested threes. The more I think about it the more I think he’s probably the smartest player on this team of morons.
Could it be by default? Kind of like when Chester was hailed as a defensive legend because he wasn’t actually good at anything else?
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100%, Goode seems very coachable.
Sounds coded. ;-)
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Good point
Which idea was the best idea of the day award winner?
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Which idea was the best idea of the day award winner?
I’m not sure. I think Custard made a comment in one thread saying something like that so I claimed it
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Indy Illini stirring the pot at loyalty
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Indy Illini stirring the pot at loyalty
Man I fucking guess so.
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I just went over there, and god damn. The ads!
Would someone mind giving a cliff notes version of what you're talking about? Thx.
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I just went over there, and god damn. The ads!
Would someone mind giving a cliff notes version of what you're talking about? Thx.
Just talk of Underwood leaving and Whitman would be all in on Sean Miller.
And a bunch of side talk about Self retiring, the Texas job being open, etc, etc.
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Just talk of Underwood leaving and Whitman would be all in on Sean Miller.
And a bunch of side talk about Self retiring, the Texas job being open, etc, etc.
Oh. Ok.
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Sean Miller would be fantastic if Underwood left, but that definitely ain’t happening.
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The Indy Illini Fan character is either a well placed insider who knows a lot of people, or a name dropping fraud. He implies a lot without actually saying it.
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Jerome Tang would be my #1 candidate if I’m filling a job.
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Sean Miller would be fantastic if Underwood left, but that definitely ain’t happening.
He's one of Tempo's guys, right?
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He's one of Tempo's guys, right?
It might have been his little brother Archie.
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It might have been his little brother Archie.
This.
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That guy is full of shit. Even if it were true I can’t imagine any reason why Whitman would share it.
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Yeah a bunch of idiots playing what if and starting rumors and shit.
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That guy is full of shit. Even if it were true I can’t imagine any reason why Whitman would share it.
Could be boosters, unhappy with their sizable NIL investments failing to produce a S16 in 6 years, venting or engaging in wishful thinking.
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Yeah a bunch of idiots playing what if and starting rumors and shit.
Idiots there, morons here.
It balances out.
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Could be boosters, unhappy with their sizable NIL investments failing to produce a S16 in 6 years, venting or engaging in wishful thinking.
Supposedly, they're giving unsolicited advice to BU, and he does not appreciate it.
So he's talking with Texas; where boosters know their place. /s
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I’d be ecstatic with Sean Miller but yeah. The pipiest of pipe dreams. Not happening.
Terry just got them to the second weekend. Why would they replace him with Underwood who has never reached the second weekend? Seems odd to me.
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If Underwood leaves, good riddance.
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Indy Illini stirring the pot at loyalty
How so?
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Sean Miller would be a massive upgrade over Underwood.
I can’t imagine why Texas would want Underwood though.
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How so?
Dude. The whole previous page goes into that.
Lazy fuck.
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Dude. The whole previous page goes into that.
Lazy fuck.
He won't read 66 pages or even a page here, but he will pick someone up and drop them off for $2.38.
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He won't read 66 pages or even a page here, but he will pick someone up and drop them off for $2.38.
Then bitch at the Uber CEO, who is apparently forcing him to do it.
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Then bitch at the Uber CEO, who is apparently forcing him to do it.
If Tempo does not drive for Uber, it is the end of the Free World. Or the Bear stadium in Arlington Heights. Or all the posts of links in the Bear threads. Or something as equally dramatic.
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If Tempo does not drive for Uber, it is the end of the Free World. Or the Bear stadium in Arlington Heights. Or all the posts of links in the Bear threads. Or something as equally dramatic.
Yeah, I don’t know wtf I would do without links to Score hot takes or links to the Colin Cowherd show.
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Dude. The whole previous page goes into that.
Lazy fuck.
My bad, I overlooked the one post referring to this Indy Illini character. My bad. I’ll never do it again. I wouldn’t dream of it. Please don’t put me on your shit list.
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You guys are real douchebags. And I mean that sincerely.
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You guys are real douchebags. And I mean that sincerely.
That's sexist.
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That's sexist.
It’s not necessary to be a dbag 24/7. No one will get angry if you take a day off.
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It’s not necessary to be a dbag 24/7. No one will get angry if you take a day off.
And misogynistic.
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And misogynistic.
I’ll take the rest of the night off, and hang with my kid. You and Jobu can continue to shit all over everything like you always do. Enjoy.
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Yeah, I don’t know wtf I would do without links to Score hot takes or links to the Colin Cowherd show.
I think I linked Cowherd once. But rail on.
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It might have been his little brother Archie.
I was definitely wanting Archie. He crushed it for multiple years at Dayton. Had the pedigree. Sometimes (most of the time actually) it just doesn’t work out. I doubt we’ve heard the last of Archie. His brother will reach the mountain top again.
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Sean Miller would be a massive upgrade over Underwood.
I can’t imagine why Texas would want Underwood though.
Miller's a fucking cheat. He should have gone to the slammer like his assistant for the Deandre Ayton fiasco. Besides, who wants a coach that looks like Jackie Gleason?
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Miller's a fucking cheat. He should have gone to the slammer like his assistant for the Deandre Ayton fiasco. Besides, who wants a coach that looks like Jackie Gleason?
Pretty much all successful coaches cheat. Now it’s legal.
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Pretty much all successful coaches cheat. Now it’s legal.
We tried the non-cheater route and his players left their teammate for dead in the car.
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Pruman from Loyalty is a weird one.
https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/college-hoops-coaching-carousel.30760/page-46#post-1885536
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According to Illini0440, Undy has been job hunting since IL got beat, if not before.
Hope someone else overpays him. Fuck off Brad.
https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/college-hoops-coaching-carousel.30760/page-48#post-1885581
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In the event Brad leaves, I say we go hard after Dennis Gates.
Seriously the fans would hate me were I the AD because Sean Miller ...couldn't win at Arizona. I'd have interviews lined up with DeVries, Wardle, Jarrod Calhoun, etc.
Not one of our successful rivals hired a big-name guy their last basketball opening.
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First calls would be to Jerome Tang and Sean Miller if I’m the IL AD.
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We tried the non-cheater route and his players left their teammate for dead in the car.
My favorite part of that story is that one of the guys in the parking lot is now an assistant coach for us. He deserves it and is a warrior, etc., but it's an example of how there's a lottt of subjectivity baked into the system. See also Luther Head's jersey hanging in the rafters.
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First calls would be to Jerome Tang and Sean Miller if I’m the IL AD.
I’d be on board.
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We tried the non-cheater route and his players left their teammate for dead in the car.
Random, but I chuckled.
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My favorite part of that story is that one of the guys in the parking lot is now an assistant coach for us. He deserves it and is a warrior, etc., but it's an example of how there's a lottt of subjectivity baked into the system. See also Luther Head's jersey hanging in the rafters.
“Dr. Frazier” as Dan Bernstein called him at the time.
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According to Illini0440, Undy has been job hunting since IL got beat, if not before.
Hope someone else overpays him. Fuck off Brad.
https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/college-hoops-coaching-carousel.30760/page-48#post-1885581
I think we have determined that that is Breal.
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First calls would be to Jerome Tang and Sean Miller if I’m the IL AD.
Breal's counterpart on The Loyalty claims Sean Miller is a done deal when Underachiever leaves.
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Breal's counterpart on The Loyalty claims Sean Miller is a done deal when Underachiever leaves.
Not expecting this to happen, but that would be amazing.
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Not expecting this to happen, but that would be amazing.
I'd put your cup on nonetheless.
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According to Illini0440, Undy has been job hunting since IL got beat, if not before.
Hope someone else overpays him. Fuck off Brad.
https://www.illinoisloyalty.com/post/college-hoops-coaching-carousel.30760/page-48#post-1885581
Also says Brad's not thrilled that the boosters are in his ear constantly telling him how to do his job.
If he thinks meddlesome boosters don't exist at other programs, he's in for quite the rude awakening.
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Miller's a fucking cheat. He should have gone to the slammer like his assistant for the Deandre Ayton fiasco. Besides, who wants a coach that looks like Jackie Gleason?
Cheating is legal now so who cares? Sean Miller is a phenomenal coach.
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My favorite part of that story is that one of the guys in the parking lot is now an assistant coach for us. He deserves it and is a warrior, etc., but it's an example of how there's a lottt of subjectivity baked into the system. See also Luther Head's jersey hanging in the rafters.
McBride, Head, Spears committed residential burglary. Not prosecuted. Piland lost the election over it. All 3 should have never played a second for IL after that. A second chance somewhere else, sure. But let’s no act like IL has any morals
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Not expecting this to happen, but that would be amazing.
If Whitman gets Bielema, Miller, and Green, I’ll annoit him the greatest AD in Illinois history
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My favorite part of that story is that one of the guys in the parking lot is now an assistant coach for us. He deserves it and is a warrior, etc., but it's an example of how there's a lottt of subjectivity baked into the system. See also Luther Head's jersey hanging in the rafters.
Yeah let them black youth rot in jail and not have any rehabilitation or chance to redeem themselves, right ?!?!
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Breal's counterpart on The Loyalty claims Sean Miller is a done deal when Underachiever leaves.
He's a notre dame fan and also a bitch sounding faggot
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Yeah let them black youth rot in jail and not have any rehabilitation or chance to redeem themselves, right ?!?!
Did you read the 2nd sentence? My issue is more the double standard when it comes to guys like McCamey or Frank getting ripped years after they left for attitude or whatnot when Luther should've drawn a felony charge and been expelled if The Rules applied evenly.
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Did you read the 2nd sentence? My issue is more the double standard when it comes to guys like McCamey or Frank getting ripped years after they left for attitude or whatnot when Luther should've drawn a felony charge and been expelled if The Rules applied evenly.
I remember when Golf was a Law and Order guy. He's gone soft in the Florida sun. SMDH.
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Epps removed Illinimbb from his Instagram bio.
See ya.
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Rumor on twitter is he's looking at GTown. Least surprising and least disappointing vs. certain other guys leaving.
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Rumor on twitter is he's looking at GTown. Least surprising and least disappointing vs. certain other guys leaving.
That checks seeing as he did commit to Ed Cooley when he was at Providence before coming here.
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Epps removed Illinimbb from his Instagram bio.
See ya.
Least surprising move, wish him the best he does have a lot of talent and wish he would have stayed, but such is cbb these days
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Least surprising move, wish him the best he does have a lot of talent and wish he would have stayed, but such is cbb these days
Guessing he did not like getting yelled at by an old white dude with greased back hair and Men's Wearhouse suit coats. ChicagoFan can take a victory lap?
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That checks seeing as he did commit to Ed Cooley when he was at Providence before coming here.
Maybe if Undetachiever didn't yell at him 3 to 5 times a game he would not be leaving.
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Epps is gone, who's next?
Love is being rumored to Mizzou already btw.
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Harris tweeted Yessir Gang with a heart for Dainja announcement, so I think that is a done deal sign he is staying.
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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1640551380103430145
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Epps is gone, who's next?
Love is being rumored to Mizzou already btw.
Good, they can have him.
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Guessing he did not like getting yelled at by an old white dude with greased back hair and Men's Wearhouse suit coats. ChicagoFan can take a victory lap?
Is there anything wrong with Men’s Warehouse suit coats?! 🤔 asking for a friend…
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MW and Jos A are great if you need a rotation of decent suits or jackets and on a budget. I still I have jackets from there I wear in rotation from like 10 years ago.
Like I've said I dig the used car salesman look for an old coach, but also Brad has a wardrobe expense line so I hope he's at least got a Brooks Brothers or Tom James contact.
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I really liked Epps. One of the best freshman guards we have seen in awhile IMO
Podz, Clark, Epps....see a pattern?
Not gonna lie, sorta pissed at Underwood right now. He needs to motivate these players and fix the locker room
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I don't see a pattern other than what's happening everywhere at schools all over the country.
There were 3 transfers per D1 team last year. Every school, pretty much, has a long list of guys leaving.
You only mentioned three guys though, what about the others?
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MW and Jos A are great if you need a rotation of decent suits or jackets and on a budget. I still I have jackets from there I wear in rotation from like 10 years ago.
Like I've said I dig the used car salesman look for an old coach, but also Brad has a wardrobe expense line so I hope he's at least got a Brooks Brothers or Tom James contact.
I think I may still have some Kuppenheimer stuff somewhere.
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I don't see a pattern other than what's happening everywhere at schools all over the country.
There were 3 transfers per D1 team last year. Every school, pretty much, has a long list of guys leaving.
You only mentioned three guys though, what about the others?
Epps' situation is different from those listed. He played a lot compared to the other two. He had his run ins with Underachiever during games though. We saw it.
Maybe he was hospitalized with the flu and Underachiever did not visit him in the hospital?
Chump edit: it certainly does not seem to be happening at MSU under Izzo (so far), does it?
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Epps' situation is different from those listed. He played a lot compared to the other two. He had his run ins with Underachiever during games though. We saw it.
Maybe he was hospitalized with the flu and Underachiever did not visit him in the hospital?
Chump edit: it certainly does not seem to be happening at MSU under Izzo (so far), does it?
He's had five guys transfer in the last two off-seasons (including a grad transfer), and his top-two leading scorers this year were transfers. Illinois has had 6 guys transfer in that span (including Grandison who was a grad transfer), I think, and also had their top-two scorers from the portal.
Clark was playing more than Epps when he was around, finished within 0.1mpg of eachother.
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The portal is the way we will win a C-Ship if we do at all. Yes we will get HS talent, but for the most part ILLINI are not a 5* destination, neither is Champaign-Urbana or the other way for PC reasons? The college degree is, however we are not playing basketball with surgeons and or any mechanical engineers for the most part.
Get our 4* HS each year...at least 2 and then recruit in 1-2 year X-fer players...by the time they are gone being BMOC, the 2-4* each year will have seniority, size, maturity. Now of course we have to hold onto the 4* that we put the effort into....there's the rub!
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Underwood should have given Epps 3-5 more mpg.
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Transfers at this point, even of 4 star guys, appear to be a cost of doing business and aren't necessarily a bad thing if both sides can find a better fit. Older school coaches may need to adjust knowing guys can just pack up but... none of this is a bad development? Plus we've been net beneficiaries the last few years with Shannon and Plummer.
NIL deals would be wise to incentivize loyalty instead of merely signing in the first place.
I am bothered by some of Underwood's roster management taken in isolation, but Epps leaving seems fairly normal. Guys sometimes left when the fit was poor even in the old days, see Bryan Blackwell or Myke Henry.
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https://twitter.com/colehawk23/status/1640785269023449111?s=46&t=05HrG8dHonbWgeb4jtVing
Hawkins in the draft, but will retain eligibility. Smart move on his part.
I don’t think he’ll leave, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he did.
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He's had five guys transfer in the last two off-seasons (including a grad transfer), and his top-two leading scorers this year were transfers. Illinois has had 6 guys transfer in that span (including Grandison who was a grad transfer), I think, and also had their top-two scorers from the portal.
Clark was playing more than Epps when he was around, finished within 0.1mpg of eachother.
Were they portal guys or "transfers"? Nevertheless, your point about losing guys to the portal stands.
Epps got far more PT as the season went on, and after Clark left, so I am skeptical that his average mpg is a good reading of his PT at the end of the season.
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https://twitter.com/colehawk23/status/1640785269023449111?s=46&t=05HrG8dHonbWgeb4jtVing
Hawkins in the draft, but will retain eligibility. Smart move on his part.
I don’t think he’ll leave, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he did.
That meme is 3-5 times funnier than most memes around here.
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Were they portal guys or "transfers"? Nevertheless, your point about losing guys to the portal stands.
Epps got far more PT as the season went on, and after Clark left, so I am skeptical that his average mpg is a good reading of his PT at the end of the season.
Umm, I'm not sure how to answer that first question. There are very few guys left who were able to 'transfer' before the portal existed - if any.
Yes, Epps got more PT when Clark left - of course he did. But when Clark was available, he played more than Epps. It's not like Skyy Clark didn't play, he was a day one starter.
EDIT: Looking at it now, Epps was getting 24 mpg before Skyy Clark left, and got 28mpg after he left (and before Jayden got hurt). So not a giant leap in minutes, but not a tiny one either.
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Umm, I'm not sure how to answer that first question. There are very few guys left who were able to 'transfer' before the portal existed - if any.
Yes, Epps got more PT when Clark left - of course he did. But when Clark was available, he played more than Epps. It's not like Skyy Clark didn't play, he was a day one starter.
EDIT: Looking at it now, Epps was getting 24 mpg before Skyy Clark left, and got 28mpg after he left (and before Jayden got hurt). So not a giant leap in minutes, but not a tiny one either.
I guess I could maybe make a distinction between guys transferring to MSU versus being "free agents in the portal who went to MSU"? If that makes any sense.
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it doesn't.
All transfers came (and went) via the portal, since 2018.
The last two offseasons you could do it without sitting out a season.` Previously that was only true of grad students.
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Umm, I'm not sure how to answer that first question. There are very few guys left who were able to 'transfer' before the portal existed - if any.
Yes, Epps got more PT when Clark left - of course he did. But when Clark was available, he played more than Epps. It's not like Skyy Clark didn't play, he was a day one starter.
EDIT: Looking at it now, Epps was getting 24 mpg before Skyy Clark left, and got 28mpg after he left (and before Jayden got hurt). So not a giant leap in minutes, but not a tiny one either.
Looks like it was smack dab between a 3-5 minute increase. Which is always the way to go.
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it doesn't.
All transfers came (and went) via the portal, since 2018.
The last two offseasons you could do it without sitting out a season.` Previously that was only true of grad students.
Not that it happened at MSU with Houser, et al., but I think there is a difference between "I have to go in the portal to transfer to X school where my college coach took a new job" versus "I am in the portal as a free agent to go to the highest bidder."
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Looks like it was smack dab between a 3-5 minute increase. Which is always the way to go.
Good one, Tempo.
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Not that it happened at MSU with Houser, et al., but I think there is a difference between "I have to go in the portal to transfer to X school where my college coach took a new job" versus "I am in the portal as a free agent to go to the highest bidder."
Who are you implying fits the first mold?
Nobody on the current roster followed Izzo to Michigan State, obviously. He recruited them from HS and the transfer portal.
Everybody enters the portal the same way as far as I know. People do it for a million different reasons, including the one you mention here.
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Who are you implying fits the first mold?
Nobody on the current roster followed Izzo to Michigan State, obviously. He recruited them from HS and the transfer portal.
Everybody enters the portal the same way as far as I know. People do it for a million different reasons, including the one you mention here.
I'm just saying in general as I have no clue why the MSU guys transfered there a couple of years ago. I don't think they brought anyone in last year via the portal.
Didn't LSU have guys who followed their coach when he got hired there?
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I'm just saying in general as I have no clue why the MSU guys transfered there a couple of years ago. I don't think they brought anyone in last year via the portal.
Didn't LSU have guys who followed their coach when he got hired there?
This last offseason they didn't get any transfers - and Izzo made a big self-righteous show of it because he's that kind of a dude - but had 4 in the two offseasons before that, including their two leading scorers.
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I really liked Epps. One of the best freshman guards we have seen in awhile IMO
Podz, Clark, Epps....see a pattern?
Not gonna lie, sorta pissed at Underwood right now. He needs to motivate these players and fix the locker room
You forgot Smith, Griffin, Miller, and Curbelo.
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You forgot Smith, Griffin, Miller, and Curbelo.
Underwood's coaching in the wrong era. He's way too emotional for this era of entitled kids.
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Don't you love it when players invoke God as they decide to quit and transfer.
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Wake me up when we know what the roster looks like.
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Wake me up when we know what the roster looks like.
same way I feel about the bears
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Wake me up when we know what the roster looks like.
Weird you’re this way here, but Bears you’re all over it and into it.
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Weird you’re this way here, but Bears you’re all over it and into it.
Tempo has quit on the Illini like Simone Biles quit on the US in the Olympics.
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same way I feel about the bears
We’re starting to get a pretty idea of what the Bears will look like. Much better picture than the Illini (we hope). If not, Dominic will be right.
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Weird you’re this way here, but Bears you’re all over it and into it.
Do the Illini have the 1st pick in the draft, more cap space than any other team, and Justin Fields?
I probably can learn more from mock drafts than I can Illini “insiders” from Loyalty. Not to mention, I just don’t expect as much as I used to from Illini Basketball. We’re apparently not who I thought we were 20 years ago.
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Weird you’re this way here, but Bears you’re all over it and into it.
And I just like NFL more than CBB these days.
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Lastly, I have zero clue what some 20 year old, likely with no connection to Illinois might do. So not going to spend time worrying about it. At some point, our lineup will be set. Hopefully it’s a good/competitive one.
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And I just like NFL more than CBB these days.
Fair enough.
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Fair enough.
;D
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Lastly, I have zero clue what some 20 year old, likely with no connection to Illinois might do. So not going to spend time worrying about it. At some point, our lineup will be set. Hopefully it’s a good/competitive one.
Add a year or so to the age and change "Illinois" to "the Bears" and I am betting you have QAnon97. Really not much of a difference between the 2 situations other than Bernstein and Parkins are discussing the Bear, and not The Illini, on the radio and The Twitter.
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I am hearing who leaves is mostly about NIL money.
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Melendez?
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Undecided
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Undecided
If he thinks he can find a coach that had more faith in him than Underwood, then good luck. That kid was hot garbage offensively for a long while this season and he still got playing time. Thankfully, he came out of his funk but it was a painful transition.
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If he thinks he can find a coach that had more faith in him than Underwood, then good luck. That kid was hot garbage offensively for a long while this season and he still got playing time. Thankfully, he came out of his funk but it was a painful transition.
I would argue that is b/c Underwood told him, along with a few others, that they were "elite shooters" in practices. Just my opinion.
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I would argue that is b/c Underwood told him, along with a few others, that they were "elite shooters" in practices. Just my opinion.
I would argue that nothing builds somebody’s confidence like telling them they suck and are terrible on offense! That’d sure keep them out of the transfer portal! 🙄
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https://writingillini.com/2023/04/03/illinois-basketball-illini-lose-3rd-player-transfer-portal/
Melendez. Bummer.
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https://writingillini.com/2023/04/03/illinois-basketball-illini-lose-3rd-player-transfer-portal/
Melendez. Bummer.
His first name is Ramses. Holy shit, he's named after a condom.
Woof, man.
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I expected more from Melendez this year..oh well
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Kinda sucks as he has great instincts and could make a huge jump next year.
The silver lining is we can absolutely guarantee 30+ mpg to a top scoring wing now.
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Well that sucks.
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Well that sucks.
Standard response is "We'll be better without him"
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He'll be better without us.
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Standard response is "We'll be better without him"
This year he was just a guy, thought he'd be better after his first season, oh well
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He'll be better without us.
Early front-runner for POTY.
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The 3 losses so far are minimal if we really are honest about it:
Freshman PG-Scorer first/facilitator second/Had issues with coaching-team third
Wing Forward-Best promise on team/incredible athlete/marginal offensive player/didn't seem to adapt and improve consistantly.
Backup to the Backup in reality Center who at best should have always been at like an Eastern Illinois or something.
We have not really lost that much yet....that said, I wished we could have kept at least RJ, due to us still losing Hawk/TSJ or both...then we will have lost alot, and IF that happens, regardless of the portal, we may very well be waiting all off season to have a losing season next year.
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There might be a message for the staff after bringing in what was said to be the #2 transfer group, and now losing 2 potential starters and 50 minutes of floor time.
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There might be a message for the staff after bringing in what was said to be the #2 transfer group, and now losing 2 potential starters and 50 minutes of floor time.
These kids all know each other and talk. They talk in the AAU system in HS, and they sure as hell talk once they are in programs.
Underwood fucked himself and the program this year with his antics and the culture being a mess.
The balance of power has shifted and these guys can get big NIL money any number of places and not have to listen to a crazy angry fuck who has never advanced in the tourney in 7 tries.
He needs to find a couple kids willing to take a chance on him and then repair the program reputation.
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The 3 losses so far are minimal if we really are honest about it:
In “The Kurgan’s” voice: “Of course they are…”
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These kids all know each other and talk. They talk in the AAU system in HS, and they sure as hell talk once they are in programs.
Underwood fucked himself and the program this year with his antics and the culture being a mess.
The balance of power has shifted and these guys can get big NIL money any number of places and not have to listen to a crazy angry fuck who has never advanced in the tourney in 7 tries.
He needs to find a couple kids willing to take a chance on him and then repair the program reputation.
The ILLINI program will have to go the route of the no yelling Army Basic Training IMO. The ranting/overblown reactions/temper tantrums on the side line has played out I am afraid. Recruits in college need motivation, but we are in a different world, like it or not. I think it's BS really, but it is what it is moving forward. BU best find another way to motivate and teach, or Whitman may have to make a decision that neither wants to happen.
I mean look at the Final Four Teams. Not one coach (May/Hurley/Larranaga/Dutcher) were any way shape or form even near BU sideline/practice/media press conference antics.
Even if you get to the Elite Eight this year....(the above 4 + Tang/Few/Terry/McDermott) None are even close to BU overall standards of conduct/demeanor on the court, I would imagine practice are just as rough if not worse, since cameras are off.
Not sure there is a happy medium anymore, but I do know right or wrong the Bobby Knight coaching days for the most part are done, too many easier ways out nowadays, why subject yourself as a 18-20 yr old to this?
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Given that Underwood's yelling was such a problem, why do you suspect one of our team leaders went public saying he should've yelled at them more?
It's at least worth noting that most of the Final Four coaches also don't have Underwood's record. Larranaga may not yell, but we'd have fired him years ago.
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McDermott has struck me as a dude that seems like he could have a redass. I do largely agree.
Underwood will either evolve, or be history. Simple as that.
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Given that Underwood's yelling was such a problem, why do you suspect one of our team leaders went public saying he should've yelled at them more?
It's at least worth noting that most of the Final Four coaches also don't have Underwood's record. Larranaga may not yell, but we'd have fired him years ago.
Hard to say. I think in context Hawkins was bitching and frustrated about the alleged promises made to freshmen, and allowing Mayer to just chuck and nobody running anything that resembled an offense.
As for the record, Underwood has underperformed IMO.
Winning in a proven historically weak conference in which every team shits the bed in the tourney every year is a mixed record at best.
I think he has poor roster construction and is a weak in game coach, and a limited record on player development.
Pretty much rolls the balls out and looks for effort plays.
Easily outcoached.
I do not think any kid sees Illinois as a destination school right now.
If we had made runs in the last 3 years it would be totally different.
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Hard to say. I think in context Hawkins was bitching and frustrated about the alleged promises made to freshmen, and allowing Mayer to just chuck and nobody running anything that resembled an offense.
As for the record, Underwood has underperformed IMO.
Winning in a proven historically weak conference in which every team shits the bed in the tourney every year is a mixed record at best.
I think he has poor roster construction and is a weak in game coach, and a limited record on player development.
Pretty much rolls the balls out and looks for effort plays.
Easily outcoached.
I do not think any kid sees Illinois as a destination school right now.
If we had made runs in the last 3 years it would be totally different.
Underperformed to what standards, exactly? Certainly not the ones of the program he took over. Everyone bitched all year and this would've probably been the second best season between Dee Brown graduating and Brad Underwood being hired. If he's raised the bar to the point where an every-year tourney program is underperforming, that seems like something to give him credit for no?
Also Hawkins wasn't talking about Mayer at all, he was clapping back at that moron on Twitter who sent a letter to the University whining about Underwood. He pretty clearly finds the "Underwood sucks because he yells" narrative stupid as fuck.
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If you’re satisfied with McDonald’s you’ll never make the move up to Five Guys.
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And if you fire your guy and start over as soon as he builds your burger restaurant from the ground up, you're more likely to end up without a burger at all than a better burger.
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And if you fire your guy and start over as soon as he builds your burger restaurant from the ground up, you're more likely to end up without a burger at all than a better burger.
Mmmmmm butter burger…
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Everyone bitched all year and this would've probably been the second best season between Dee Brown graduating and Brad Underwood being hired.
Not true.
This year’s team finished #35 in Kenpom.
Bruce Weber after Dee Brown graduated:
2006-07: 36
2007-08: 51
2008-09: 25
2009-10: 57
2010-11: 18
2011-12: 76 (fired)
2 of the final 4 Weber teams were way better than this year, and he still was fired.
Being better than Groce doesn’t mean you keep your job. All your showing by that stat is how bad Groce was. Yet you supported Groce in his 5th season. So your standards are so so so low that you have no reasonable take in this discussion.
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Now do the last four years compared to Weber's last four.
Weber got fired because half the time, he could be as good as this team that everyone complained about all year.
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Since I know you won't because it'll make you look dumb, here they are:
23: #35
22: #20
21: #4
20: #30
So, two times in five years post-Dee, Weber was better than Underwood's worst year after the rebuild. Zero times within 10 spots of Underwood's best year.
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And if you fire your guy and start over as soon as he builds your burger restaurant from the ground up, you're more likely to end up without a burger at all than a better burger.
John Groce was fired after a 20-15 season.
The team finished 20-13 this year. You’re back in the same place you were 7 years ago bc nothing has been built.
Yay, he lucked into a difference making Center that made the team good. Ron Turner lucked into a difference making QB. Guess what? When both those guys left the program the teams went right back into the crapper.
I mean, imagine thinking Ron Turner post Kittner should have have been allowed to keep his job forever bc he one time built up a team from the Lou Tepper regime. It’s just nonsense.
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It's almost like a team that missed the tournament and a team that made it without being on the bubble are different!
I know you being "right" depends entirely on stupid shit like pretending they're the same, but they're still not, and you're still a pedo and a moron.
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Morehead State won 22 games this year so they were better than us!
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Since I know you won't because it'll make you look dumb, here they are:
23: #35
22: #20
21: #4
20: #30
So, two times in five years post-Dee, Weber was better than Underwood's worst year after the rebuild. Zero times within 10 spots of Underwood's best year.
Underwood’s rebuild after Kofi will never come close to any of Weber’s best years after Dee and Deron left.
It’s all downhill from here.
Kofi was the program.
He ain’t never coming back.
And he’s never gonna be replicated.
I give credit Weber was able to construct a couple of top 25 teams post Dee/Deron. And still got fired.
Underwood will never do that again here. He can’t even keep guys he recruited for more than a couple years. His coaching sucks. And his GM’ing is even worse.
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I'm sure if we make the tourney again next year you will be here pretending we didn't.
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.
One of these days, by blind luck, it seems likely you'll get something right - that said, it hasn't happened yet, so maybe you're just destined to be the butt of every joke from everyone? Somebody's gotta be that guy. The bottom of life's totem pole, the guy who eats the cracker.
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I'm sure if we make the tourney again next year you will be here pretending we didn't.
Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.
One of these days, by blind luck, it seems likely you'll get something right - that said, it hasn't happened yet, so maybe you're just destined to be the butt of every joke from everyone? Somebody's gotta be that guy. The bottom of life's totem pole, the guy who eats the cracker.
I just want to know what standards do you have for wanting a coach fired?
Like how bad would Underwood need to be to fire him next year?
Or how many bad seasons in a row will you tolerate before wanting to fire a coach? We already know that. You were fine Groce missing 3 straight NCAAs bc you supported him in year 5.
You are the Ron Turner football fan from the early 2000s. This is a near carbon copy of where the football program was then, and the basketball program now.
1999-2001 football years = 2020-22 basketball years (Kittner/Kofi)
2002 football team = 2023 basketball team
2003-2005 football team = 2024-2026 basketball team)
We are getting ready to go way back down.
Underwood looks like Frank Martin at SC, except Frank got a FF there. I guess since Frank “built them up” he should have coached forever there right?
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Here’s where I stand. No doubt Underwood resurrected the program from the depths. But I’m not convinced his arrow is pointing up, and IMO it’s more likely pointing down. If a dysfunctional, deeply flawed, and unmotivated team is the best Underwood can do with a widely heralded transfer class and the #11 freshman class, then I’m not optimistic his ceiling is pointing up post Kofi/Ayo/Shannon. Not to mention, we’ve discussed his actual coaching chop shortcomings ad nauseam. Next year is an important year for Underwood, and I think it’ll tell us a lot.
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Yes, we've complained all throughout Underwood winning the most games in the league over the last 4 years. I don't think that's the evidence you want to present though.
I don't know how anyone could know what direction Underwood's arrow is pointing right now. In a down year, we were a no-doubt tourney team. If that's the norm, there are very few coaches that can do that consistently. If that's the high water mark going forward, then yeah of course we'll need to move on. I don't know how anyone could say that one way or another right now though.
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Yes, we've complained all throughout Underwood winning the most games in the league over the last 4 years. I don't think that's the evidence you want to present though.
I don't know how anyone could know what direction Underwood's arrow is pointing right now. In a down year, we were a no-doubt tourney team. If that's the norm, there are very few coaches that can do that consistently. If that's the high water mark going forward, then yeah of course we'll need to move on. I don't know how anyone could say that one way or another right now though.
If just making the tourney is the benchmark, then we have our guy as my guess is we can be a 10 win league team and Top 40 KenPom team most years.
He is now 0-7 in the tourney, however, getting to a S16.
He has a 4-7 tourney record.
And he is pretty much an unlikeable redass by players and fans and stakeholders.
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LOL, suddenly after a slightly disappointment he's unlikable. Incredible. His players mostly seem to like him, honestly. There have been a few that butted heads with him, but that's true of a lot of coaches. Having a bunch of transfers like everybody else isn't evidence his players don't like him.
In my experience, you have a much better chance of making a tournament run as a 9 seed than an NIT participant. So yes, making the tournament every year is step one. It's not the last step, but it's the first step toward making tournament runs.
We can start over, but the chances are better we get someone that stumbles over that first step than someone who clears the next one consistently.
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LOL, suddenly after a slightly disappointment he's unlikable. Incredible.
In my experience, you have a much better chance of making a tournament run as a 9 seed than an NIT participant. So yes, making the tournament every year is step one. It's not the last step, but it's the first step toward making tournament runs.
We can start over, but the chances are better we get someone that stumbles over that first step than someone who clears the next one consistently.
Spark, I know you are a big fan of UW, but UW has never been what anyone would call a likeable guy. LOL. The act was tolerable when they were winning in his third and fourth year and it looked like he could get buy in.
And the disappointments started three years ago, not this year, with the Loyola melt down being totally unprepared and outcoached as a 1 seed.
The arrow is trending down and he has lost whatever national mojo and visibility we had in 2019/20 and 2020/21.
We are just another wannabe team now.
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Spark, I know you are a big fan of UW, but UW has never been what anyone would call a likeable guy. LOL. The act was tolerable when they were winning in his third and fourth year and it looked like he could get buy in.
And the disappointments started three years ago, not this year, with the Loyola melt down being totally unprepared and outcoached as a 1 seed.
The arrow is trending down and he has lost whatever national mojo and visibility we had in 2019/20 and 2020/21.
We are just another wannabe team now.
That's funny. Literally everybody I know in real life and talk Illinois sports with like him.
I will say that when we hired him, I expected not to. I thought I'd feel about him like you apparently do. But I haven't, really at all. He gets fiery during games, sometimes probably takes that too far (ignoring the multiple comments from individual players about liking/disliking that approach), but he seems like a pretty intelligent, mostly relaxed, and positive guy most of the time off the court. Obviously I only see what is presented on television (same as you, I assume), but I'm surprised you think he's super unlikable.
I think he's consistently been a solid, if not flashy or obviously great, coach at every stop he's been at. I think he knows what it takes to win games at the college level, but I do think it's fair to question whether he knows how to put himself in that position in the portal era - that said, that's a question for literally every coach right now, including the ones that went deep in this year's tournament. The portal is wild, and everyone's learning to adjust to it. I think Underwood got some splashes this year, but they weren't great for the team chemistry. It will be interesting to see whether he learns from it and adjusts.
I do think fan negativity about a guy who frankly has been pretty darn good for our program overall in terms of where we were when we hired him to now has some level of negative impact on things - it's nearly impossible to win a fanbase back after they've turned on you, and I think we're pretty close to that point with Underwood no matter how the next couple years go. It's not like if he makes the S16 next year people be saying "I was wrong about Underwood I guess", it'll be "well can he do it every year though?" or "why did we lose to that 7 seed in the S16? we should've been in the E8!" or whatever. Every single year our fans act like they'd rather have the guys in the Final Four than Underwood, ignoring that by their own standards we would've just fired those guys before they got there.
Not that this is the end-all be-all by any means, but counting the COVID year when we would've made it, how many times has Illinois had four straight tournament teams?
Henson had 8 straight in the 1980's. Self and Weber made 7 straight in the 2000's. I think that's the whole list.
As for me being a 'big fan' of Underwood - I think a lot of the criticism he gets is unwarranted, and short-sighted. I don't know that I'd say I'm super bullish on the guy. There are definitely a number of coaches that if I knew we could 100% get them I'd be fine with making that move, but that's not really how hiring works most of the time. I also think if we fire him, the chances we get a guy that's definitely better are considerably lower than the chances we get a guy that's definitely worse - do you agree with that?
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Having a bunch of transfers like everybody else isn't evidence his players don't like him.
Yes it is. When IL pays more than just about anyone in NIL, and guys still leave, it means they hate the boss.
Think of Illinois as a company. The boss is having a ton of turnover in his employees despite the company offering more benefits than anyone else. So they must hate the boss
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Literally no one cares what you think about it Dom. Zero people.
The adults are talking.
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Coming into this year, here are the last-4 year records for the Final Four coaches.
Dan Hurley:
73-47 (40-32 half in the AAC and half in the Big East), two tourney appearances, 0-2 record - probably wouldn't have made it the COVID year.
Jim Larranaga:
65-62 (30-47 in the ACC), one tourney appearance, 3-1 record (E8)
Dusty May
65-56 (34-32 in Conference USA), no tourney appearances
Brian Dutcher
97-29 (54-15 in the Mountain West), 2 tourney appearances (would've definitely been in the COVID year, so we'll count it as 3), 0-2 record.
Which one of these coaches would our fans not have been calling to fire coming into this season? Dutcher, MAYBE? Coming off consecutive first round tourney losses to lower seeds, though. Larranaga maybe coming off an E8, but he wouldn't even have gotten to last year.
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Yes, we've complained all throughout Underwood winning the most games in the league over the last 4 years. I don't think that's the evidence you want to present though.
I don't know how anyone could know what direction Underwood's arrow is pointing right now. In a down year, we were a no-doubt tourney team. If that's the norm, there are very few coaches that can do that consistently. If that's the high water mark going forward, then yeah of course we'll need to move on. I don't know how anyone could say that one way or another right now though.
Again, he did that when he had two All-Americans on the roster. Two players that made 1st team All-American in their careers; a feat rarely accomplished at Illinois. And his deepest run was 1st weekend. Punked by an 8 seed. Yes, he’s decent enough. Is he the best we can do? I’m not sure about that.
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Again, he did that when he had two All-Americans on the roster. Two players that made 1st team All-American in their careers; a feat rarely accomplished at Illinois. And his deepest run was 1st weekend. Punked by an 8 seed. Yes, he’s decent enough. Is he the best we can do? I’m not sure about that.
That stat includes a year when neither guy had ever been (or really was considered to be a candidate for) an All American, one year with two All Americans, one year with one, and one year with none.
Who do you propose we replace him with who would definitely be better?
Do you think if we were to fire him we'd be more likely to get someone who is for sure better, or for sure worse than Underwood?
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That stat includes a year when neither guy had ever been (or really was considered to be a candidate for) an All American, one year with two All Americans, one year with one, and one year with none.
Who do you propose we replace him with who would definitely be better?
Do you think if we were to fire him we'd be more likely to get someone who is for sure better, or for sure worse than Underwood?
It’s possible we get someone worse. But I’m willing to take that chance and unload a 60 year old redass who seems to have shown us his ceiling. I’m not saying I’d fire him. I’m just saying if he got hired away, I’d be perfectly ok with that.
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It’s possible we get someone worse. But I’m willing to take that chance and unload a 60 year old redass who seems to have shown us his ceiling. I’m not saying I’d fire him. I’m just saying if he got hired away, I’d be perfectly ok with that.
I didn't ask if it was possible.
Do you think it's more likely the coach we'd get after firing him would be better, or worse?
Not sure how you decide what a coach's 'ceiling' is, given that we're talking ultimately about a complete crapshoot single elimination tournament.
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I didn't ask if it was possible.
Do you think it's more likely the coach we'd get after firing him would be better, or worse?
No. But I’ll admit, the “potential” of the Illinois basketball program is one thing I’ve never been a pessimist on.
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No. But I’ll admit, the “potential” of the Illinois basketball program is one thing I’ve never been a pessimist on.
It wasn't a yes or no question :)
Do you think it's more likely the next guy is better or worse?
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It wasn't a yes or no question :)
Do you think it's more likely the next guy is better or worse?
I realized that after I hit post, but I think you get my point. I have faith we could make a good hire.
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Underwood’s rebuild after Kofi will never come close to any of Weber’s best years after Dee and Deron left.
It’s all downhill from here.
Kofi was the program.
He ain’t never coming back.
And he’s never gonna be replicated.
I give credit Weber was able to construct a couple of top 25 teams post Dee/Deron. And still got fired.
Underwood will never do that again here. He can’t even keep guys he recruited for more than a couple years. His coaching sucks. And his GM’ing is even worse.
In case you didn't notice; social media, NIL, and the transfer portal have changed college basketball since Bruce was here.
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I realized that after I hit post, but I think you get my point. I have faith we could make a good hire.
So you think if we were to fire Underwood, we'd be more likely to get someone better than him (as compared to worse)?
It's fair to say you think it's more likely we'd get worse but it's still worth it to risk that IMO. I don't agree with it, but I get it.
I don't think it's close though, I think it's considerably more likely whoever we'd hire ends up worse than we've gotten out of Underwood thusfar than better. Maybe it's worth the risk to take on the smaller possibility that we'd get someone definitely better, but IMO we're not at that point yet at all.
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Even when we were under inept leadership we hired Kruger and Self. We just bombed badly on Weber and Groce.
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Had RG just made a fairly safe hire like Dana Altman (instead of Weber) it’s possible he’d be on year 20 here.
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Impressed with your hindsight, as always.
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Coming into this year, here are the last-4 year records for the Final Four coaches.
Dan Hurley:
73-47 (40-32 half in the AAC and half in the Big East), two tourney appearances, 0-2 record - probably wouldn't have made it the COVID year.
Jim Larranaga:
65-62 (30-47 in the ACC), one tourney appearance, 3-1 record (E8)
Dusty May
65-56 (34-32 in Conference USA), no tourney appearances
Brian Dutcher
97-29 (54-15 in the Mountain West), 2 tourney appearances (would've definitely been in the COVID year, so we'll count it as 3), 0-2 record.
Which one of these coaches would our fans not have been calling to fire coming into this season? Dutcher, MAYBE? Coming off consecutive first round tourney losses to lower seeds, though. Larranaga maybe coming off an E8, but he wouldn't even have gotten to last year.
Underwood and Hurley have nothing in common. Just look at Kenpom.
Dan Hurley at UConn by Kenpom:
2017-18 (before Hurley): 179
2018-19 (Hurley): 98
2019-20 (Hurley): 52
2020-21 (Hurley): 21
2021-22 (Hurley): 22
2022-23 (Hurley): 1
Contrast that with Underwood:
2016–17 (Before UW): 66
2017-18 (Underwood): 102
2018-19 (Underwood): 84
2019-20 (Underwood): 30
2020-21 (Underwood): 4
2021-22 (Underwood): 20
2022-23 (Underwood): 35
Hurley inherited a worse team and has consistently went upward.
San Diego State/FAU are mid major teams. They don’t have the same expectations as Illinois and aren’t comparable.
Larranagga is a made guy after his success at George Mason. Coaches that take mid majors to Final 4s typically get alot of leeway (see Shaka Smart).
Again, stop defending Underwood. The guy is 31-45 without Kofi Cockburn. None of these other coaches have ever been dependent on one player for success.
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Get back over to the kids table Dom.
Actually you know what, that seems like a horrible idea.
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So you think if we were to fire Underwood, we'd be more likely to get someone better than him (as compared to worse)?
It's fair to say you think it's more likely we'd get worse but it's still worth it to risk that IMO. I don't agree with it, but I get it.
I don't think it's close though, I think it's considerably more likely whoever we'd hire ends up worse than we've gotten out of Underwood thusfar than better. Maybe it's worth the risk to take on the smaller possibility that we'd get someone definitely better, but IMO we're not at that point yet at all.
Underwood without Kofi is the worst coach we’ve ever had. So you can’t possible do worse than that. Underwood will never recruit another Kofi, so why hold on to him?
Ron Turner without Kurt Kittner was objectively the worst football coach Illinois ever had until Lovie Smith showed up. Is it possible that you get worse than Underwood? No. Degrees of Suck is still Suck.
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Dom, shut the fuck up.
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Get back over to the kids table Dom.
Actually you know what, that seems like a horrible idea.
You’re non responses just prove I am right.
31-45 without Kofi.
And it’s only going to get worse next year.
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No no, I literally just am not interested and don't care what the dumbest motherfucker I've ever met thinks about this. Your opinion sincerely doesn't matter.
Like, I would tell you to go tell it to someone who cares, but if that person existed you wouldn't be the universally-hated, emotionally stunted beta that you are.
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Ron Turner without Kurt Kittner was objectively the worst football coach Illinois ever had until Lovie Smith showed up.
No. Gary Moeller was the worst. Jim Valek was the second worst.
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That's funny. Literally everybody I know in real life and talk Illinois sports with like him.
I will say that when we hired him, I expected not to. I thought I'd feel about him like you apparently do. But I haven't, really at all. He gets fiery during games, sometimes probably takes that too far (ignoring the multiple comments from individual players about liking/disliking that approach), but he seems like a pretty intelligent, mostly relaxed, and positive guy most of the time off the court. Obviously I only see what is presented on television (same as you, I assume), but I'm surprised you think he's super unlikable.
I think he's consistently been a solid, if not flashy or obviously great, coach at every stop he's been at. I think he knows what it takes to win games at the college level, but I do think it's fair to question whether he knows how to put himself in that position in the portal era - that said, that's a question for literally every coach right now, including the ones that went deep in this year's tournament. The portal is wild, and everyone's learning to adjust to it. I think Underwood got some splashes this year, but they weren't great for the team chemistry. It will be interesting to see whether he learns from it and adjusts.
I do think fan negativity about a guy who frankly has been pretty darn good for our program overall in terms of where we were when we hired him to now has some level of negative impact on things - it's nearly impossible to win a fanbase back after they've turned on you, and I think we're pretty close to that point with Underwood no matter how the next couple years go. It's not like if he makes the S16 next year people be saying "I was wrong about Underwood I guess", it'll be "well can he do it every year though?" or "why did we lose to that 7 seed in the S16? we should've been in the E8!" or whatever. Every single year our fans act like they'd rather have the guys in the Final Four than Underwood, ignoring that by their own standards we would've just fired those guys before they got there.
Not that this is the end-all be-all by any means, but counting the COVID year when we would've made it, how many times has Illinois had four straight tournament teams?
Henson had 8 straight in the 1980's. Self and Weber made 7 straight in the 2000's. I think that's the whole list.
As for me being a 'big fan' of Underwood - I think a lot of the criticism he gets is unwarranted, and short-sighted. I don't know that I'd say I'm super bullish on the guy. There are definitely a number of coaches that if I knew we could 100% get them I'd be fine with making that move, but that's not really how hiring works most of the time. I also think if we fire him, the chances we get a guy that's definitely better are considerably lower than the chances we get a guy that's definitely worse - do you agree with that?
Fair enough.
I have said for awhile that I thought the 2019-20 team was a very good coaching and team development and culture development job by UW and staff.
That team would have made some noise in tourney. You did not want to play them by end of year. Did everything pretty well and was tough mentally and physically.
Just not sure why he has not been able to pull that off again really at all.
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Get back over to the kids table Dom.
Actually you know what, that seems like a horrible idea.
Custard needs to dump the pedophile.
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Underwood needs to learn to get high quality PGs in the portal b/c most guards he recruits end up hating him and leaving.
His half-court offense will never be good if he cant keep a pg around.
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Impressed with your hindsight, as always.
My point is we’ve always been able to hire quality candidates. Minus a couple whiffs in a row.
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No. Gary Moeller was the worst. Jim Valek was the second worst.
Where does Lou Tepper rate? Beckman has to be in the mix.
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It’s Beckman, and it isn’t close.
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Wonder if Theo Epstein would be interested in the Illinois job.
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Skyy Clark (24.5 min) FR
Mark Smith (19.1 min) FR
Alan Griffin (18.1 min) SO
Jayden Epps (24.6 min) FR
RJ Melendez (21.5 min) SO
Adam Miller (25.5 min) FR
Andre Curbelo (19.3 min) SO
Spark, these are disgruntled employees that quit bc they hate their boss. Find me some other team that lost 7 FR/SO that played 18+ minutes a game. If you can find a team like that most likely they suck.
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Beckman was a wreck from the start. Tepper and Turner at least had high points.
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Beckman was a wreck from the start. Tepper and Turner at least had high points.
“When we say Oskee…”
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Where does Lou Tepper rate? Beckman has to be in the mix.
Beckman makes the top 3. Tepper was a competent DC.
Valek was 8–32 over 4 years.
Bob Blackman had a competitive program; 6 years, 29–36–1.
Moeller had a 3 year 6–24–3 record, featuring the 1978 futility bowl.
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I know some people want Dom banned but I just love watching him get eviscerated soooooo much.
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The puff pieces departure announcements are annoying. Players should all say why they really left.
We know Mark Smith left because of punitive use of exercise. He had to use the treadmill when he phucked up. He also wanted to play pg. Lol.
Alan Griffin's mom wanted him to transfer. His dad wanted him to stay. The kid had issues. I was told he was eventually effectively shown the door. Same problems surfaced at 'cuse. He was benched and declared for the draft. Likely not invited back
Curbelo has had major issues at SJU, much worse than here. I understand he also had off court issues here that were kept quiet even before the concussion.
It is has been said RJ has not been happy here socially because Antigua et al left and it affected his play. There are other issues beyond the staff's control.
We know Miller allegedly wanted to stay but his family didn't think he was used right and were jealous of Ayo. That story is well known.
Rumor is Epps made an NIL demand that was excessive and money people said no. No idea if that is true.
Clark reportedly thinks he struggled because he didn't have enough freedom in Underwood's offense.
Others have come to Underwood's defense on twitter, Shannon, Hawkins, Harris, Goode.
Matt Mayer should hook up with a ghost writer and pen a tell all book about this past season. He could call it "A Season on the Drink."
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The puff pieces departure announcements are annoying. Players should all say why they really left.
We know Mark Smith left because of punitive use of exercise. He had to use the treadmill when he phucked up. He also wanted to play pg. Lol.
Alan Griffin's mom wanted him to transfer. His dad wanted him to stay. The kid had issues. I was told he was eventually effectively shown the door. Same problems surfaced at 'cuse. He was benched and declared for the draft. Likely not invited back
Curbelo has had major issues at SJU, much worse than here. I understand he also had off court issues here that were kept quiet even before the concussion.
It is has been said RJ has not been happy here socially because Antigua et al left and it affected his play. There are other issues beyond the staff's control.
We know Miller allegedly wanted to stay but his family didn't think he was used right and were jealous of Ayo. That story is well known.
Rumor is Epps made an NIL demand that was excessive and money people said no. No idea if that is true.
Clark reportedly thinks he struggled because he didn't have enough freedom in Underwood's offense.
Others have to Underwood's defense on twitter, Shannon, Hawkins, Harris, Goode.
Matt Mayer should hook up with a ghost writer and pen a tell all book about this past season. He could call it "A Season on the Drink."
When you are constantly getting dumped, the problem is you. No other program has had this amount of turnover with a long tenured head coach.
Not even money or high class facilities can keep these guys.
Again, without Kofi Cockburn, Underwood would have been fired 2 years ago.
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When you are constantly getting dumped, the problem is you.
^^^^^
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Almost every school has had huge turnover no matter who their coach is. Would be crazy if that wasn't true, given there were more than 3 transfers per D1 school last offseason.
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Almost every school has had huge turnover no matter who their coach is. Would be crazy if that wasn't true, given there were more than 3 transfers per D1 school last offseason.
It’s not that I don’t believe you, I do. But where did you find this stat? I’d be curious to read about it.
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PAMan alert.
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It’s not that I don’t believe you, I do. But where did you find this stat? I’d be curious to read about it.
Hopefully the article is less than 280 characters or else it will be "too long" to read.
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PAMan alert.
AOTC! LOL. Kudos to you on this one.
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AOTC! LOL. Kudos to you on this one.
Easiest prediction I’ve ever made.
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It’s not that I don’t believe you, I do. But where did you find this stat? I’d be curious to read about it.
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/2/21/media-center-2022-transfer-trends-released-for-divisions-i-and-ii.aspx#:~:text=In%202022%2C%201%2C649%20men's%20Division,decrease%20from%202021%20(1%2C687).
"In 2022, 1,649 men's Division I basketball players were entered into the Transfer Portal, a slight decrease from 2021 (1,687). Eighty-four percent of these student-athletes were on athletics aid at their departing school.
Of all the Transfer Portal entrants in Division I men's basketball, 1,123 transferred to another NCAA school to receive athletics aid, a slight decrease from 2021 (1,198)."
So actually closer to 5 per D1 school each of the last two offseasons entered the portal, although 16% of them were walk-on types not on scholarship. 500 of them either stayed, quit basketball all together, or went to an NAIA type school.
There are more than 2 per D1 school in the portal right now for this offseason (and that number will go up).
https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/wire/basketball/2023/
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That is a hefty number. Thanks.
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Yep, everyone in the country is dealing with it.
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Wow, seeing their “NIL value” is wild. Lol
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Wow, seeing their “NIL value” is wild. Lol
One thing to consider about that is the On3 number is some kind of algorithm determining how much they're "worth". I'm pretty sure most NIL deals' actual money is kept pretty quiet, that number likely isn't a very good indication of what someone's actually pulling in NIL.
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One thing to consider about that is the On3 number is some kind of algorithm determining how much they're "worth". I'm pretty sure most NIL deals' actual money is kept pretty quiet, that number likely isn't a very good indication of what someone's actually pulling in NIL.
Wouldn’t believe so, but I’m sure it differentiates the more valuable players from the less “valuable” ones. One kid was $168k for example. Some were under 10. It’s interesting. And kind of bizarre.
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Wouldn’t believe so, but I’m sure it differentiates the more valuable players from the less “valuable” ones. One kid was $168k for example. Some were under 10. It’s interesting. And kind of bizarre.
My guess is if they're listed at $168k on On3, they're making notably more than that.
It's based on shit like how many social media followers they have (and obviously their team/how good they are to some degree).
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My guess is if they're listed at $168k on On3, they're making notably more than that.
I would agree with that.
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I know some people want Dom banned but I just love watching him get eviscerated soooooo much.
I mean, it is the cesspool…amirite?
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I mean, it is the cesspool…amirite?
Even the cesspool has limits. Custard got rid of IVMP who had out of control narcissism, and obsessive compulsive disorder.
Allowing Squeaky to stay is harboring a pedophile who constantly discusses his desire and failed attempts to sexually abuse underage girls and is additionally a racist homophobic asshole.
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Even the cesspool has limits. Custard got rid of IVMP who had out of control narcissism, and obsessive compulsive disorder.
And yet PAMan is still here.
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As to the Who Leaves Topic.
We will as of right now have a team of: We can't afford anyone else leaving... !!!!!!
Dainja - Starter
Goode -Starter or Instant offense from bench
Rodgers - Starter
Harris - Starter
Hansberry - Starter
Gibbbs-Lawhorn - Starter unless we get exp PG.
Serven
Moretti
Redd
Warden
Unknowns-Hawkins/TSJ, if BU and the staff DO NOT get some talented X-fers, this team has the potential to be as bad as ???
I mean if we only get mid level players, yes maybe they work out, yes maybe we get cohesive players to fit current team, or yes, maybe just yes, we get mid level players who are just that for a reason?
This off-season and next season is not looking great to say the least.
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That is not a good team without a couple of pretty meaningful additions.
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https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/team-rankings/basketball/2023/
Schools listed by # of transfers....Ironically I think Baylor has to have been Top 3 in at least the last 2 years? Climate/Culture/Re-adjust?
Missouri-G-Tech-Wake area all understandable as far as desired schools to play for...Arkansas is a little puzzling. ILLINI, don't even make the top 50 listed...#56
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https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/team-rankings/basketball/2023/
Schools listed by # of transfers....Ironically I think Baylor has to have been Top 3 in at least the last 2 years? Climate/Culture/Re-adjust?
Lack of PT?
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As of right now the 14 Big Ten teams have 30 outgoing transfers and 3 incoming transfers.
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https://www.on3.com/transfer-portal/team-rankings/basketball/2023/
Schools listed by # of transfers....Ironically I think Baylor has to have been Top 3 in at least the last 2 years? Climate/Culture/Re-adjust?
Missouri-G-Tech-Wake area all understandable as far as desired schools to play for...Arkansas is a little puzzling. ILLINI, don't even make the top 50 listed...#56
No idea how those rankings are made, but Arkansas is high on the list and has one incoming, no outgoing transfers.
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Other than the gofs, where there is no NIL money and it's the last place gofs, and the Shrewsberry is gone as well as a lot of players tPSU who wants to break down the non grad transfers who were starters or who were potential/projected starters for next season if they stayed at their respective schools ?
https://www.insidethehall.com/2023/03/22/tracking-big-ten-mens-basketball-transfer-portal-entries/
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That is not a good team without a couple of pretty meaningful additions.
I will reserve judgment until we have a complete roster. A lot of dominoes still to fall.
I do think that the staff needs to take this as an opportunity to change the narrative that is likely developing out there.
We have another season of perceived turmoil we are in trouble.
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And yet PAMan is still here.
Anyway, getting back to this…the sheer volume of bellicose language and derision I’ve encountered from him for merely believing there’s a “decent possibility” Justin Fields could (become) a franchise quarterback is beyond anything IVMP ever did. It’s dozens upon dozens upon dozens of pages of multiple threads.
It’s literally soured all of our dialogue in every area, and the entire board for that matter. Talk about narcissistic and OCD.
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Can't argue with that. He follows you around like a dog, makes multiple alts to mock you, commits his entire sig to mocking you.
Really sad to see.
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He’s absolutely unhinged on the subject. Even if he ends up “being right.”
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Can't argue with that. He follows you around like a dog, makes multiple alts to mock you, commits his entire sig to mocking you.
Really sad to see.
I only did that to point out how unhinged he is on the topic. I didn’t do it before the JFC blowout. But nice try.
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I only did that to point out how unhinged he is on the topic. I didn’t do it before the JFC blowout. But nice try.
... what?
Oh, I see - you do all those things too.
Legit didn't even realize or notice that. I wasn't being sarcastic, but now that you point it out...
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And I also did it (originally) because I thought he’d find it humorous. The old version of PAMan would have. But he’s remarkably unhinged on the JFC debate. And once I found out it annoyed him, well, that worked too I guess.
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... what?
Yes, I was mocking the fact that he is completely unhinged on the topic of Justin Fields. You can’t even have a reasonable debate with him on the subject. Do you disagree with that comment?
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I will reserve judgment until we have a complete roster. A lot of dominoes still to fall.
I do think that the staff needs to take this as an opportunity to change the narrative that is likely developing out there.
We have another season of perceived turmoil we are in trouble.
Totally reasonable.
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Can't argue with that. He follows you around like a dog, makes multiple alts to mock you, commits his entire sig to mocking you.
Really sad to see.
So answer this one question for me: In your experience, have you found it to be at all easy (or even possible in most cases) to have a grown up discussion with ThePAMan on the topic of Justin Fields?
The proof is in the pudding. He’s been absolutely toxic since those “debates.”
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In fact, it’s been hard to have a grown up discussion on anything with him lately.
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Totally reasonable.
I think there are some timing issues that are going to be a problem to navigate for this staff. Everybody else deals with this also, but we have more questions than most.
Other than a guy who wants to be lead guard/scoring PG like Cryer where we have nobody- higher scoring impact wings are going to want to know what is going on with TJS (who is probably gone), and Hawkins (who needs to stay to show he can actually shoot as he will not make an NBA roster otherwise but who the hell knows).
I guess staff could try and sell to a proven scoring wing that they can coexist with both TJS and Hawkins and get enough touches.
Of course any portal recruit will also want to know how they will fit in with the try hard guys (Rodgers/Harris/Goode) who are really not BT starter level, but UW loves them.
If no Hawkins or TJS which will not be known for awhile- then we have major PT for anybody over 6'2" who can actually shoot. But the premiere impact guys may already be gone.
Then there is the freshmen lead guard coming in Gibbs-Lawhorn who looks interesting, but is an unknown as to whether he will be happy coming off bench for 10 mpg.
I also think we need another quality 20 mpg post to either to start or share time with Dainja.
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I feel like I’ve made myself clear multiple times. But I’ll try again. I am not actively seeking a change, but would not be upset with one. I do think there is risk we could do worse. That is risk I am willing to welcome. Is this unreasonable?
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So answer this one question for me: In your experience, have you found it to be at all easy (or even possible in most cases) to have a grown up discussion with ThePAMan on the topic of Justin Fields?
The proof is in the pudding. He’s been absolutely toxic since those “debates.”
I don’t think I’ve seen a PAMan post that didn’t make me roll my eyes since this board started.
He started spending time on a board with Truth, JudgeJudy, and ILLove and became them.
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I don’t think I’ve seen a PAMan post that didn’t make me roll my eyes since this board started.
He started spending time on a board with Truth, JudgeJudy, and ILLove and became them.
He’s always been “that way,” but the old PAMAn was much more playful, and had a good sense of humor. He went from playfully and passively aggressive to aggressively aggressive.
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This is almost heart breaking.
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He’s always been “that way,” but the old PAMAn was much more playful, and had a good sense of humor. He went from playfully and passively aggressive to aggressively aggressive.
I guess he really isn't registering that much to me as there has been so much psychopathic shit constantly this year by IVMP and Squeaky Pedophile drowning everything else out.
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I guess he really isn't registering that much to me as there has been so much psychopathic shit constantly this year by IVMP and Squeaky Pedophile drowning everything else out.
It’s mostly on display in the football forum, and the deuce. I never see you post there.
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It’s mostly on display in the football forum, and the deuce. I never see you post there.
Got it.
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Anyway, getting back to this…the sheer volume of bellicose language and derision I’ve encountered from him for merely believing there’s a “decent possibility” Justin Fields could (become) a franchise quarterback is beyond anything IVMP ever did. It’s dozens upon dozens upon dozens of pages of multiple threads.
It’s literally soured all of our dialogue in every area, and the entire board for that matter. Talk about narcissistic and OCD.
Are you advocating that someone be banned…???? 😁
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It’s not that I don’t believe you, I do. But where did you find this stat? I’d be curious to read about it.
There were 1,123 d-1 scholarship basketball transfers last year. A little over 360 teams. Do the math.
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Are you advocating that someone be banned…???? 😁
No.
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There were 1,123 d-1 scholarship basketball transfers last year. A little over 360 teams. Do the math.
I think the percentage of kids who transferred had been pretty high (like 30+ %} even before they ended the sit out penalty. I think the big difference now is more star players are leaving teams.
I think NIL has had an impact for sure.
It's a different world and coaches and programs need to adjust.
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Can't argue with that. He follows you around like a dog, makes multiple alts to mock you, commits his entire sig to mocking you.
Really sad to see.
No mults made to mock Tempo. Tempo makes all the mults these days. But carry on.
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This is almost heart breaking.
I'm finding it pretty funny.
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No mults made to mock Tempo. Tempo makes all the mults these days. But carry on.
I’m fairly certain he was mocking me here. Seems a lot of us have reading comprehension issues…
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I’m fairly certain he was mocking me here. Seems a lot of us have reading comprehension issues…
I have not made a mult. You made 10 of them to mock me. This is awesome.
At the Sox game, so half reading between innings
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I have not made a mult. You made 10 of them to mock me. This is awesome.
JFC…
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Don’t ever insult my reading comprehension again. I just explained it to you as clearly as possible, and it still went over your head.
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I am debating with myself whether our poor player retention is an NCAA wide problem, an Illinois problem, or an Underwood problem.
It increasingly looks like an NCAA wide problem. The penalty free transfers, the NIL money, social media posturing, the prep school basketball factories, players seeking immediate gratification, snowflake culture, helicopter parents, handlers ...
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Don’t ever insult my reading comprehension again. I just explained it to you as clearly as possible, and it still went over your head.
You sure? He is very cranky these days.
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I have not made a mult. You made 10 of them to mock me. This is awesome.
At the Sox game, so half reading between innings
Is Eloy there? Or is he watching from his hospital bed?
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I am debating with myself whether our poor player retention is an NCAA wide problem, an Illinois problem, or an Underwood problem.
It increasingly looks like an NCAA wide problem. The penalty free transfers, the NIL money, social media posturing, the prep school basketball factories, players seeking immediate gratification, snowflake culture, helicopter parents, handlers ...
The NCAA made it's bed by not getting out in front of NIL and regulating it. Instead, they fought it all the way to SCOTUS and lost. They can lie in the bed they made as far as I'm concerned.
I would rather see the players getting paid than having all of it going to the scumbag coaches.
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You sure? He is very cranky these days.
Yes, I didn’t expect that response from him, so it seems to support the notion he’s cranky.
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The NCAA made it's bed by not getting out in front of NIL and regulating it. Instead, they fought it all the way to SCOTUS and lost. They can lie in the bed they made as far as I'm concerned.
I would rather see the players getting paid than having all of it going to the scumbag coaches.
Agreed. It’s far from perfect, but at least the dirtbag coaches aren’t holding all the cards anymore.
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Agreed. It’s far from perfect, but at least the dirtbag coaches aren’t holding all the cards anymore.
The players are screwing themselves in the long run too. If there is little to no continuity in rosters, interest will wane, and nil money will dry up.
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It's the wild west right now. The market will settle once the donors realize they are making shitty investments. Plus, the Covid year is going away.
It obviously won't continue on like this.
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Dom, shut the fuck up.
I would like to nominate this post for post of the week. With a possibility for it playing for post of the year as well.
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I would like to nominate this post for post of the week. With a possibility for it playing for post of the year as well.
That should be a every post pin...."Dom, shut the fuck up". If anyone posts, this is an auto signature line, including Dom himself... ;D
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That should be a every post pin...."Dom, shut the fuck up". If anyone posts, this is an auto signature line, including Dom himself... ;D
Ban the mthrfcker. We are a lot of things, but not a place that harbors a pedophile.
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Ban the mthrfcker. We are a lot of things, but not a place that harbors a pedophile.
Rather have this at my harbor: ;D ;D ;D
https://shortyawards.imgix.net/entries/15th/bcb9f5e4-1b53-48a8-98eb-e71a997b0108.jpg?auto=format&fit=crop&h=300&q=65&w=500&s=49af023bc1a876744c13444f591335a0
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Almost every school has had huge turnover no matter who their coach is. Would be crazy if that wasn't true, given there were more than 3 transfers per D1 school last offseason.
Not from guys that play 18+ minutes a game as underclassmen.
Grad transfers and bottom of the roster never play types leaves
Not the type of contributors Underwood has had leave
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The NCAA made it's bed by not getting out in front of NIL and regulating it. Instead, they fought it all the way to SCOTUS and lost. They can lie in the bed they made as far as I'm concerned.
I would rather see the players getting paid than having all of it going to the scumbag coaches.
The problem is the players really aren’t getting paid from the revenue that they directly bring in (TV Deals, Attendance Revenue). The schools are keeping all that money. So it’s a great thing for schools. They can keep all the profits, and have a 3rd party pay the workforce. And the 3rd party gets nothing for their investment. Quite a ruse. Will last 2 years max before people get fed up and say fuck it. Not paying these guys anything. Give them money from the money they make broadcasting their NIL. Not my own Joe blow fan money.
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My point is we’ve always been able to hire quality candidates. Minus a couple whiffs in a row.
I’d like to touch on this again (the Dana Altman point). Good to great coaches have always been a realistic outcome for us. I’d say we had three home runs in a row with Henson, Kruger, Self. If RG didn’t have little dick syndrome he might have made a better choice than Weber. Thomas made the two worst hires we’ve ever seen in Groce/Beckman.
For the 14th time, I am not saying we should ”fire” Underwood, but if the task to replace him came up, im reasonably confident we could do it more than adequately.
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. Thomas made the two worst hires we’ve ever seen in Groce/Beckman.
Not quite. You might recall some entrenched people in DIA resented that an outsider, Neale Stoner, was shaking things up. So they arranged to oust him over perks every other AD had gotten.
Similar thing happened to Michigan alumni Pete Elliot. Mel Brewer and others set football and basketball back a decade + to bring him down.
They then pushed to hire Illinois alumni. AD Gene Vance, Jim Valek FB , and Harv Schmidt BB HC. It was a disaster. Great guys in some ways, but only Harv was competent but he was a bit arrogant and couldn't relate well to the players.
collectively, as a group, those were the worst hires.
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Hey Spark and Nichi, the underclassmen transfer problem is a specific Brad Underwood problem. Here are all the Big 10 transfers from true 1st or 2nd year players that averaged at least 15 minutes a game since Brad Underwood started.
Ohio State (Chris Holtmann)
*FR DJ Carton (23.9) Marquette
*FR Meechie Johnson (17.7) South Carolina
Nebraska (Fred Hoiberg)
*FR Kevin Cross (18.3) Tulane
*SO Cam Mack (34.8) Prairie View AM
Michigan (Juwan Howard)
*SO David DeJulius (20.9) Cincinnati
Purdue (Matt Painter)
None
Michigan State (Tom Izzo)
*SO Rocket Watts (22.6) MS State
Wisconsin (Greg Gard)
None
Iowa (Fran McCaffrey)
*SO CJ Fredrick (24.7) Kentucky
Northwestern (Chris Collins)
None
Rutgers (Steve Pikiell)
None
Illinois (Brad Underwood)
*FR Mark Smith (19.1) Missouri
*SO Alan Griffin (18.1) Syracuse
*FR Adam Miller (25.5) LSU
*SO Andre Curbelo (19.3) St John’s
*FR Jayden Epps (24.6)
*SO RJ Melendez (21.5)
Indiana (Mike Woodson)
*SO Tamar Bates (20.4)
Minnesota (Ben Johnson)
*FR Jaden Henley (20.8) DePaul
Maryland, Penn State both have very short tenured coaches so can’t compare.
As you can see, it’s quite rare for a coach to recruit a player, put them immediately into the rotation as a true FR or true SO, and have them leave for another school. Unless you are Brad Underwood.
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Why can't you compare, say, Indiana? Woodson just finished a fairly successful year two. He lost 4 guys last year. This year he's losing a sophomore 20 mpg rotation guy he recruited plus two other guys (one of whom he recruited) and had a freshman declare for the draft. Why is Mark Smith part of a trend but not Tamar Bates?
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Connor Serven is apparently in the portal now, not that he was going to start next year.
So our roster right now is: Moretti, Harris, Gibbs-Lawhorn, Goode, Rodgers, Hansberry, Dainja.
Hopefully Hawkins is back and we can land a scoring point guard and a center because yeesh.
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I have heard things that would make me say that Miller himself did not want to leave and that the program did not want him to leave either.
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Why can't you compare, say, Indiana? Woodson just finished a fairly successful year two. He lost 4 guys last year. This year he's losing a sophomore 20 mpg rotation guy he recruited plus two other guys (one of whom he recruited) and had a freshman declare for the draft. Why is Mark Smith part of a trend but not Tamar Bates?
Ok in 2 seasons, Woodson lost 1 guy that was a true FR or SO- Tamar Bates - that had played at least 15+ minutes a game and transferred to another school.
I’m not including guys that declare for the draft for obvious reasons.
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AJ Redd plans to be back. Haven't heard anything about Paxton Warden.
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https://twitter.com/CBKReport/status/1643731576058937344?t=S3dwdv2MTB9z-j35bSpkRA&s=19
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Ok in 2 seasons, Woodson lost 1 guy that was a true FR or SO- Tamar Bates - that had played at least 15+ minutes a game and transferred to another school.
I’m not including guys that declare for the draft for obvious reasons.
Anyone can kick a field goal if you cam reshape the post on the fly.
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Not to muddy up what turned out to be decent CBB convo, but PAMan is not the one making mults and using them to fuck with people.
Source: The guy that can see everything that happens on this forum.
Is the constant bickering between him and Tempo tiring? You’re fucking right it is. But to say that these two aren’t enjoying it and that someone is a victim is fucking stupid.
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Lol
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I think everyone knows I enjoy a little back and forth. And I honestly did create the first couple of mults because i thought PAMan would find them amusing. What I don’t like is when PAMan thinks he has insight into my personal life about what happens between me and my son’s mother, or how I’m fathering my kid. Etc. and no, I don’t think calling someone the occasional dipshit on a message board is getting overly personal. I have zero insight into what he’s like at home or in real life. And I don’t pretend to. He could be citizen and father of the year for all I know. I hope that’s the case.
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Yes. I’ll go back and forth all day about sports or politics. But some things I would never do is pretend to have insight into someone’s personal life, or revel in or mock someone for things they are going through. Or for their job. If it so happens that someone here pulls 2nd shift at Burger King, hey man, I hope that serves you well. Yes, I think that’s considerably worse than creating a Shaman/Score Listener mult to point out the absurdity of a position they are taking, or calling someone a dipshit. And let’s face it, the position that listening to The Score is tantamount to supporting the Jan 6th insurrection is an all-timer.
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Not to muddy up what turned out to be decent CBB convo, but PAMan is not the one making mults and using them to fuck with people.
Source: The guy that can see everything that happens on this forum.
Is the constant bickering between him and Tempo tiring? You’re fucking right it is. But to say that these two aren’t enjoying it and that someone is a victim is fucking stupid.
You fukk. ;D ;D
I just spit out a mouthful of coffee when I read the 1st reply to this truth.
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https://twitter.com/CBKReport/status/1643731576058937344?t=S3dwdv2MTB9z-j35bSpkRA&s=19
The Illinois shit talking Illinois must be either HQ2 vs Loyalty, or misinformationed Illinois vs Indiana.
I'll go 100% the latter.
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Not to muddy up what turned out to be decent CBB convo, but PAMan is not the one making mults and using them to fuck with people.
Source: The guy that can see everything that happens on this forum.
Is the constant bickering between him and Tempo tiring? You’re fucking right it is. But to say that these two aren’t enjoying it and that someone is a victim is fucking stupid.
👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
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You fukk. ;D ;D
I just spit out a mouthful of coffee when I read the 1st reply to this truth.
LOL
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The Illinois shit talking Illinois must be either HQ2 vs Loyalty, or misinformationed Illinois vs Indiana.
I'll go 100% the latter.
I'm going with the former.
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Not to muddy up what turned out to be decent CBB convo, but PAMan is not the one making mults and using them to fuck with people.
Source: The guy that can see everything that happens on this forum.
Is the constant bickering between him and Tempo tiring? You’re fucking right it is. But to say that these two aren’t enjoying it and that someone is a victim is fucking stupid.
As you know, the Internet is very serious business. Everyone needs to know that Underwood and I am the real victims here.
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are
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are
My bad. Underwood was an afterthought and late add in.
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I'm going with the former.
From a 60 year fan perspective, we have been our own worst enemy multiple times. Mel Brewer vs. Pete Elliot. The Stadium Crew vs. Neale Stoner. Mike Slive vs. Jimmy Collins. RG vs. BS.
No. I don't yell at clouds; I take pictures of them. I don't drink decaf. I was once chased out of Mr. Roberts' yard. I got a tour of the Hall before it was open.
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From a 60 year fan perspective, we have been our own worst enemy multiple times. Mel Brewer vs. Pete Elliot. The Stadium Crew vs. Neale Stoner. Mike Slive vs. Jimmy Collins. RG vs. BS.
No. I don't yell at clouds; I take pictures of them. I don't drink decaf. I was once chased out of Mr. Roberts' yard. I got a tour of the Hall before it was open.
Yes, Nichi we understand. You are very old. We get it. Thank you for the daily reminders, tho.
Congrats on being old. It's better than the alternative.
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Yes, Nichi we understand. You are very old. We get it. Thank you for the daily reminders, tho.
Congrats on being old. It's better than the alternative.
Nichi = Dracula/Nosferatu is a match....
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Nichi = Dracula/Nosferatu is a match....
Barnabas Collins
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Nichi = Dracula/Nosferatu is a match....
60 is the new 40.
Get with the program!
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Seasoned. Experienced. Calm. The point is, it has too often been Illini vs. Illini. Self defeating.
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Seasoned. Experienced. Calm. The point is, it has too often been Illini vs. Illini. Self defeating.
Ape don't kill ape....
https://youtu.be/-h_Bm8wVPKU
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There are exceptions to every rule and I always reserve the right to contradict myself or change my mind without prior notice. As a general policy, I make an effort to avoid making nasty personal comments about others here. If their posting style or sense of humor rubs me the wrong way; I try to keep that to myself.
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There are exceptions to every rule and I always reserve the right to contradict myself or change my mind without prior notice. As a general policy, I make an effort to avoid making nasty personal comments about others here. If their posting style or sense of humor rubs me the wrong way; I try to keep that to myself.
What prompted that comment?
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What prompted that comment?
IVMP had a huge bizarre hard on for him for some reason. IVMP appears to have mental health issues. IlliniRay handled it all very well.
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IVMP had a huge bizarre hard on for him for some reason. IVMP appears to have mental health issues. IlliniRay handled it all very well.
I understand that. I was just wondering why that comment was made now. I probably missed something.
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The problem is the players really aren’t getting paid from the revenue that they directly bring in (TV Deals, Attendance Revenue). The schools are keeping all that money. So it’s a great thing for schools. They can keep all the profits, and have a 3rd party pay the workforce. And the 3rd party gets nothing for their investment. Quite a ruse. Will last 2 years max before people get fed up and say fuck it. Not paying these guys anything. Give them money from the money they make broadcasting their NIL. Not my own Joe blow fan money.
I agree with this. These are good points. That does not mean you are right about Rodgers and Dainja.
NIL money and the one time penalty free transfer are both farces.
NCAA big sport athletes get valuable college scholarships in exchange for their services. They get breaks from admissions. Under the old rules, they had to redshirt if they transferred. They still got their scholarship, were allowed to practice, etc., and got a 5th year.
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I understand that. I was just wondering why that comment was made now. I probably missed something.
Yeah, me too. Hard to keep up with all of the subplots here. LOL.
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Paxton Warden is in the portal. Like Conner Serven, he is a preferred walk on, so this does not affect scholarships.
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Thought I'd put these here:
This guy is Coleman's uncle:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tom-hawkins-1.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hawkito01.html
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Based on a quick search of recent projections for 2023 draft and 2024 drafts, I think it would be prudent for both Hawk and TSJ to return for another year.
CBS showing 40-44 for both TSJ Higher
ESPN shoing 39-46 for both TSj Higher
Hoop Social 44-60 with Hawk being higher
Bleacher Report 45 for TSJ, Hawk not ranked top 50.
NBA Draft Room 70 for TSJ, nothing for Hawk
Sporting News 43-53 with TSJ higher
Sports Illustrated 31-34 with Hawk being higher.
I really think with these projections this year and draft class and next year being marginally worse as far as talent, they could work themselves both into the first round as far as picks and $$$
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Thought I'd put these here:
This guy is Coleman's uncle:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tom-hawkins-1.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hawkito01.html
His dad's uncle.