IlliniHQ 2
General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: ILLINICHIEF on March 05, 2023, 04:43:09 PM
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At the risk of not enjoying our next 2-3 games....probably all we are getting with our current dysfunctional and underacheiving team on any given night....I am diehard ILLINI but man this team imo with the talent brought in has been overall very underwhelming in consistancy to say the least.
So looking forward to next year...
G-Harris, Moretti, DGL, Epps, Clark
Forward - Rodgers-Goode-Hansberry-Melendez-Hawkins
Centers - Dainja-Leib
Auto losses - Mayer-Shannon
Probable Loss - Hawkins
Transfer Potential Losses - Epps/Clark/Melendez/Dainja (?)
So we could be looking at losing in all likelihood up to (7), realistically (5) with only Hansberry and DGL coming in, Moretti is here and Perrin is gone.
We only have Johnson in 2024 as of now....The current list of offers out there are all very unlikely imo, none will be auto ready to contribute....better hope for the #1 transfer class next year...the time will be there for sure to sale to these guys.
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At the risk of not enjoying our next 2-3 games....probably all we are getting with our current dysfunctional and underacheiving team on any given night....I am diehard ILLINI but man this team imo with the talent brought in has been overall very underwhelming in consistancy to say the least.
So looking forward to next year...
G-Harris, Moretti, DGL, Epps, Clark Shitty Transfer 1, Shitty Transfer 2
Forward - Rodgers-Goode-Hans(dingle)berry-Melendez-Hawkins Shitty Transfer 3, Shitty Transfer 5
Centers - Dainja-Leib, Shitty Transfer 4 or Lame Big Man Recruited 1
Auto losses - Mayer-Shannon
Probable Loss - Hawkins
Transfer Potential Losses - Epps/Clark/Melendez/Dainja (?)
So we could be looking at losing in all likelihood up to (7), realistically (5) with only Hansberry and DGL coming in, Moretti is here and Perrin is gone.
We only have Johnson in 2024 as of now....The current list of offers out there are all very unlikely imo, none will be auto ready to contribute....better hope for the #1 transfer class next year...the time will be there for sure to sale to these guys.
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Hopefully there isn't a big turnover of players like last year.
Besides Shannon and Mayer graduating, I'm assuming Hawkins will enter the draft and they'll have at least two transfers.
If Undy can retain Epps, Rodgers, Harris, Goode, Melendez and Dainja, this should be a tourney team.
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Can Shannon request an additional year?
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Can Shannon request an additional year?
We'll be better off without him.
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Can Shannon request an additional year?
He is eligible for a Covid year.
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I’ve come to the conclusion it’s best not to have expectations.
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As of now:
*Justin Harmon reportedly enrolled in summer school at Utah Valley
*Quincy Guerrier reportedly enrolled in summer school at Oregon
*Marcus Domask, Amani Hansberry, Dravyn Gibbs-Lawhorn are on campus
*Niccolo Moretti is apparently enrolled in summer school at UIUC, despite loyalty insiders lobbying to crean him
*Paul Mulcahy leaving Rutgers as a grad transfer, but reportedly has no interest from Illinois
*Antonio Reeves rumored to announce his return to UK today
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Update: It now looks like Mulcahy might be a possibility. Williams scholarship could be up in the air.
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Update: It now looks like Mulcahy might be a possibility. Williams scholarship could be up in the air.
Up in the air from us or due to academics/injury waiver?
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So has of now: Harmon in summer school, which means he may not even get here as a Grad transfer?
Williams is a 2 time transfer that needs a waiver due to injuries?
So we still may have 1-2 scholarships left then?
And no solid PG as of now?
And Mulcahy is not or WILL not go to another B1G school?
And Reeves is projected to go back to Kentucky to be the STUD, since they only have 7 currently...
This off season has been something so far.
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Up in the air from us or due to academics/injury waiver?
Reportedly still needs to clear admissions and pass a physical to qualify for an Illinois scholardhip.
He needs a 2 time transfer waiver to be eligible right away.
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This is all speculation. All scholarships are taken for now.
It looks like Harmon and Guerrier might have work to do in summer school. No details beyond that. There is still a mutual commitment. They'll have a ride assuming they meet the requirements. Guerrier needs to graduate because he transferred once. Not sure on Harmon.
From what I gather, Mulcahy is interested in Illinois, but there are no scholarships available. One could open up soon if Williams is not admitted.
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After Clark and Epps left, pg was the most important position to fill. And we're busy playing musical chairs with scholarships, summer school, eligibility, injured players and hopes that the NCAA will maybe approve a waiver for us ?
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This is all speculation. All scholarships are taken for now.
From what I gather, Mulcahy is interested in Illinois, but there are no scholarships available. One could open up soon if Williams is not admitted.
Most gossip has stated we passed on Mulcahy. Right now its Gonzaga, Kentucky, Michigan, and Memphis. Why I don't know, but if true the staff has really fucked the dog on the PG situation. If its another year of trail by committee it will likely be eerily similar to last seasons result.
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I'm far more worried about us having better chemistry and actually liking playing together - something I anticipate, maybe foolishly, being much better this season regardless of the rest of the offseason - than getting one of these "true point guard" types. Obviously an ideal world would be both, but I don't think the lack of a point guard was really the problem last year.
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There was certainly other issues, but I still feel like a good/great point guard would have went a long ways in limiting the disfunction we had in the half court set.
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I also think it’s worth noting that a year ago we thought we DID have an elite PG on the way - who knows what will happen?
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Most gossip has stated we passed on Mulcahy. Right now its Gonzaga, Kentucky, Michigan, and Memphis. Why I don't know, but if true the staff has really fucked the dog on the PG situation. If its another year of trail by committee it will likely be eerily similar to last seasons result.
It's hard to add someone when all the scholarships are pledged. Loyalty insiders act like you just kick Moretti and Harmon to the curb; then add Mulcahy and Reeves. Moretti is a class of 2013 recruit that enrolled early to get a head start working with Fletch. Harmon is a 5th year transfer. They started creaning kids that soon; they are arming rival recruiters.
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It's hard to add someone when all the scholarships are pledged. Loyalty insiders act like you just kick Moretti and Harmon to the curb; then add Mulcahy and Reeves. Moretti is a class of 2013 recruit that enrolled early to get a head start working with Fletch. Harmon is a 5th year transfer. They started creaning kids that soon; they are arming rival recruiters.
Does anyone really care about Creaning at this point given the portal?
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Does anyone really care about Creaning at this point given the portal?
The portal is closed, except for grad students.
Do you yank Moretti out of summer school and tell him sorry, go home, we need your scholarship?
Do you pull you Harmon's offer after he committed?
If not; which of the other 11 do you cut? Gibbs-Lawhorn? He has shown up for all the events and is enrolled in summer school. That would be good optics.
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It's hard to add someone when all the scholarships are pledged. Loyalty insiders act like you just kick Moretti and Harmon to the curb; then add Mulcahy and Reeves. Moretti is a class of 2013 recruit that enrolled early to get a head start working with Fletch. Harmon is a 5th year transfer. They started creaning kids that soon; they are arming rival recruiters.
I completely agree. My guess is there's likely not going to be anymore additions. I'd say what you see is what you get going into next year. The only potential issue would be if Harmon has problems not being able to transfer.
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The portal is closed, except for grad students.
Do you yank Moretti out of summer school and tell him sorry, go home, we need your scholarship?
Do you pull you Harmon's offer after he committed?
If not; which of the other 11 do you cut? Gibbs-Lawhorn? He has shown up for all the events and is enrolled in summer school. That would be good optics.
I understand. I just skeptical anyone cares anymore.
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https://247sports.com/college/virginia/LongFormArticle/College-basketball-10-takes-Paul-Mulcahy-sweepstakes-Big-12s-guard-play-rotation-concerns-with-top-5-teams-211571530/
Good article, and some outside concerns it seems with Williams (injury/and????)
No mention of Harmon at all?
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https://247sports.com/college/virginia/LongFormArticle/College-basketball-10-takes-Paul-Mulcahy-sweepstakes-Big-12s-guard-play-rotation-concerns-with-top-5-teams-211571530/
Good article, and some outside concerns it seems with Williams (injury/and????)
No mention of Harmon at all?
The coaching concerns of 30 days of having no idea who will be on your roster can't be good for the game.
But then neither are the portal or NIL currently, imo.
And from point 6 about the Big12 guards.
"Baylor's RayJ Dennis is a bootyball machine who refuses to turn it over.
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I understand. I just skeptical anyone cares anymore.
To avoid bad optics, I would think it has to be done at the season ending exit interview in April, so the player can enter the portal and has options. Not during summer school, after they renewed him, and the portal is closed. I think people would care..
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To avoid bad optics, I would think it has to be done at the season ending exit interview in April, so the player can enter the portal and has options. Not during summer school, after they renewed him, and the portal is closed. I think people would care..
Before NIL and the portal, I agree.
But now, put the blame on the NCAA and not the coaches.
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Before NIL and the portal, I agree.
But now, put the blame on the NCAA and not the coaches.
Sigh. I must be bad at this.
Before the portal, the timing wouldn't have mattered. The portal now restricts when undergraduates can transfer without penalty..
Winter sports: A 60-day window beginning the day after championships selections are made in their sport.
The undergraduate portal closed May 11.
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Sigh. I must be bad at this.
Before the portal, the timing wouldn't have mattered. The portal now restricts when undergraduates can transfer without penalty..
Winter sports: A 60-day window beginning the day after championships selections are made in their sport.
The undergraduate portal closed May 11.
It's not that dates have been set, it's when those NCAA and NBA dates are.
We had no idea if Shannon or Hawkins were coming back. How can Underwood go to anyone in the portal and say 'if Shannon stays in the draft we'll have a spot for you, but if he comes back then we won't need you.'
NIL compounds the problem by adding what could be a significant money offer to a player in the portal that a coach may not even need once his player decides to withdraw from the draft.
From the article ...
"“We were in a position where we really didn’t know what some guys were going to do because of testing the waters,” Arkansas coach Eric Musselman said. “The NBA dates and the NCAA dates, they really don’t align. So, you’ve got to put together a roster while you really want to support your guys that are trying to figure out their NBA dream, but also you have an obligation to put the best roster you can together. So, that’s kind of a balancing act for about a 30-day period. It puts stress on your roster management. It puts stress on the player. It puts stress on the incoming players, not knowing if guys that are testing the waters are coming back or not coming back. There are a lot of factors in recruiting that maybe the general public doesn’t understand.”
Nonetheless, getting an adequate pg should have been our #1 priority. Rodgers may eventually work out but we couldn't run a half court offense last season with guys who had some experience playing guard. Good luck this year.
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our biggest need is pg and we didnt fill it
That is NOT GOOD!
It's like NFL DRAFT. if you have a SOLID QB like JOSH ALLEN, are you gonna draft a QB like Bryce Young?! NO! You draft for NEEDS then! not QB!
The staff for ILLINI did not do that,that ignored the PG dilemma and are hoping TY can pull it off. THAT is NOT GOOD
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Harmon has some apparent admission issues. He is taking summer school classes to try and get in.
Guerrier also taking summer school classes although there seems to be less concern about him getting in.
Williams has transfer waiver, injury, and apparent legal issues.
Really this goes both ways- some of these kids commit, we verbally accept them, but they are not technically eligible to do so.
There is also the ability to move someone off scholarship and potentially pay there way via NIL money, but this is murky.
It is a new world and how the game is played.
From reports neither Moretti or DGL are physically ready to play at this level this year.
Staff have done a shit job in managing this in offseason and had months to prepare.
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Harmon has some apparent admission issues. He is taking summer school classes to try and get in.
Guerrier also taking summer school classes although there seems to be less concern about him getting in.
Williams has transfer waiver, injury, and apparent legal issues.
Really this goes both ways- some of these kids commit, we verbally accept them, but they are not technically eligible to do so.
There is also the ability to move someone off scholarship and potentially pay there way via NIL money, but this is murky.
It is a new world and how the game is played.
From reports neither Moretti or DGL are physically ready to play at this level this year.
Staff have done a shit job in managing this in offseason and had months to prepare.
Where do we go?
Where do we go now?
Where do we go?
Ooh, oh, where do we go?
Where do we go now?
Oh, where do we go now?
Where do we go? (point guard?)
Where do we go now?
Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay, ay, ay, ay
Where do we go now?
Ah, ah
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The staff got easily the two biggest targets back on campus, a former all conference guy and a potential all conference guy, and the narrative is "man they fucked this up".
Gotta hit every mark perfectly or the narrative is you sucked.
Literally as soon as Hawkins and Shannon announced they'd come back people started saying "of course they did who cares"
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The staff got easily the two biggest targets back on campus, a former all conference guy and a potential all conference guy, and the narrative is "man they fucked this up".
Gotta hit every mark perfectly or the narrative is you sucked.
Literally as soon as Hawkins and Shannon announced they'd come back people started saying "of course they did who cares"
What do you expect when there's no point guard?
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Maybe at least an acknowledgement that they got the two biggest, by far, pieces they targeted this offseason, rather than just "they fucked up this offseason" because they didn't get a transfer point guard?
Just black and white shit. They didn't get every detail perfect so it was a disaster even though they brought back probably two all conference players.
There are certainly things to criticize here but this offseason overall was undoubtedly a success. We could've missed on the point guards and also NOT gotten two high level starters back.
Like there were a few major goals here. 1 and 1a were getting Shannon and Hawkins back. 3 was get a transfer point guard. We're throwing the whole thing out as a disaster - saying the coaching staff 'have done a shit job' because we ONLY got our top two targets back on the roster.
Imagine a situation where your boss tells you, ideally you'll do these three things this year, ordered by priority. You do the top two perfectly and the third one is a 'maybe'. What do you say when your boss says "you did a shit job"?
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Maybe at least an acknowledgement that they got the two biggest, by far, pieces they targeted this offseason, rather than just "they fucked up this offseason" because they didn't get a transfer point guard?
Just black and white shit. They didn't get every detail perfect so it was a disaster even though they brought back probably two all conference players.
There are certainly things to criticize here but this offseason overall was undoubtedly a success. We could've missed on the point guards and also NOT gotten two high level starters back.
Like there were a few major goals here. 1 and 1a were getting Shannon and Hawkins back. 3 was get a transfer point guard. We're throwing the whole thing out as a disaster - saying the coaching staff 'have done a shit job' because we ONLY got our top two targets back on the roster.
Imagine a situation where your boss tells you, ideally you'll do these three things this year, ordered by priority. You do the top two perfectly and the third one is a 'maybe'. What do you say when your boss says "you did a shit job"?
"So I'm Brad Underwood?"
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"So I'm Brad Underwood?"
LOL
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I'm just messing with Spark. Getting Hawking and Shannon was big BUT we can't act like NOT getting a PG is OK.
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It's exactly 'OK' IMO. Far from ideal, obviously, but of the priorities here getting our starters back were the top two by a mile and a half and we did that.
Certainly to sell it as "they did a shit job" requires ignoring quite a bit of evidence.
I'd have rather gotten Shannon and Hawkins back than RayJ or whoever. I think we're a notably better team with those two guys than without them and with one of the transfer PGs.
Like if I'd have said right after our last game last season "we're going to get Shannon and Hawkins back, but we're going to miss on RayJ Dennis" this board would've been like, "who?"
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The staff got easily the two biggest targets back on campus, a former all conference guy and a potential all conference guy, and the narrative is "man they fucked this up".
Gotta hit every mark perfectly or the narrative is you sucked.
Literally as soon as Hawkins and Shannon announced they'd come back people started saying "of course they did who cares"
I don't recall anyone saying that.
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"So I'm Brad Underwood?"
😂 good one!
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I don't recall anyone saying that.
They did.
https://illinihq2.com/index.php/topic,845.msg83686.html#msg83686
When really good things happen it's who cares, thats what I expected. When moderately bad things happen it's, this is a dumpster fire and our staff sucks.
Taken as a whole, this offseason was a success. They didn't get every single thing correct, but they got easily the two biggest and most important targets back. I expect us to be improved. Hell, up until right now you'd been saying the same thing. I don't really see any reasonable way to sell us getting two potential all conference starters back, but missing on a one year transfer PG, as being some disaster.
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They did.
https://illinihq2.com/index.php/topic,845.msg83686.html#msg83686
When really good things happen it's who cares, thats what I expected. When moderately bad things happen it's, this is a dumpster fire and our staff sucks.
Taken as a whole, this offseason was a success. They didn't get every single thing correct, but they got easily the two biggest and most important targets back. I expect us to be improved. Hell, up until right now you'd been saying the same thing. I don't really see any reasonable way to sell us getting two potential all conference starters back, but missing on a one year transfer PG, as being some disaster.
I do think they will be improved. They have also shit the bed with not getting a legit playmaker in.
It's not always a black and white world. You think staff and the NIL bagmen are happy? No.
We will be in the Top 25-35 range this year again.
Obviously getting TSJ back was huge.
Without him they would be a fringe NCAA team in the Top 40-45 range.
With a decent PG we could be Top 15.
If Harmon is eligible that will help and our ceiling gets a little higher than 25-35.
Of course, the best thing about getting TSJ back is no Pedophile NIT Fcktard here anymore so, yes, the off season has been a success.
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I agree it's not a black and white world, which was exactly why I took issue with characterizing an offseason where we got our two biggest targets by far to return to the program as 'doing a shit job' because we didn't also get the transfer point guard we wanted.
All in all, it was a successful offseason. Taken as a whole, yes, I think the boosters and staff are probably pretty happy with how the offseason went even though we didn't bat 1.000 - at least if they're moderately reasonable people. We should be better next year IMO, and we weren't terrible last year.
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I agree it's not a black and white world, which was exactly why I took issue with characterizing an offseason where we got our two biggest targets by far to return to the program as 'doing a shit job' because we didn't also get the transfer point guard we wanted.
All in all, it was a successful offseason. Taken as a whole, yes, I think the boosters and staff are probably pretty happy with how the offseason went even though we didn't bat 1.000 - at least if they're moderately reasonable people. We should be better next year IMO, and we weren't terrible last year.
I actually think that staff are feeling a lot of pressure to make the second weekend of the tournament.
It has been 20 years and will be BU's 7th season here.
Right now we are probably another 20 win and 11-9 BT season and 7-9 seed. Could very well make the S16.
I do not necessarily agree with it, but if we lose first round in NCAA I think Underwood could easily decide to move on or there is mutual agreement to move on.
If we win first game and lose second game he gets another year, but not sure he stays and how long can you stick with a coach who has never won in March?
If we get to S16- he buys 3 years easy.
We get an EE, he can retire here.
Remember he was allegedly looking at other jobs this off season.
Not sure he is that happy with all of the booster involvement and criticism, but that comes with the territory.
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It 'comes with the territory' to some degree, but there are also lots of places who have had an awful lot more recent success than we have where they wouldn't look at a clear upward trajectory from his hiring and be thinking about firing him.
We have the expectations of a blue blood but without the recent success and advantages of being a Kentucky or Kansas. It's a thin line to walk, for sure.
I of course agree that you can't keep a guy forever who can't win in March, but he's really been upset once in March. He lost two other tournament games where he was an underdog. That's a pretty damn small sample of evidence that he 'can't win in March'. Lots of coaches have had worse 7 year stretches to start their tenures at a school and ended up great, including one whose name is on our court.
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But he's also the 7th highest paid coach in the country. At some point you have to show why
Also. Almost 20 years since we made a sweet 16? Geez
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I assume he's paid well because he took over a program in the dumpster, with an empty cupboard, who hadn't been thought of by anyone outside of our fanbase in 15 years, who had made 3 tournaments in a decade, and turned us into a program that's nationally relevant, has spent time in each of the last four seasons ranked in the top-20, and has been a tournament team four straight years.
That kind of success is going to get anybody paid well.
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Looking at the top-15 highest paid coaches:
#1, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #14 have not made a S16 in the last four seasons (back to and including the COVID year, which was the first year I'd have considered Illinois "back").
Izzo (#3), Cronin (tied for #9), Musselman (also tied for #9), and Dana Altman (#12) have made more than one.
I do think our fans (especially those who lived through the two truly great 5-7 year stretches in our program's modern history in the 80s and early 2000s) tend to overestimate how easy it is to make the second weekend, and underestimate how much luck is involved in that even for the very top echelon of college coaches. Totally ignoring the huge changes happening throughout the sport right now.
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You might want to take a look at Loyalty Recruiting thread today.
Even the Insider homers are stating the reality of the pressure and expectations and what happens if we fall short again this year.
May not be fair but it is what it is.....
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Correction
Per NG: "Academic year doesn't end until this week at Oregon for Quincy Guerrier."
He was enrolled in classes there, but not summer classes. He is finishing up the spring term.
Harmon does still need more credits to graduate
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This is Underwood's 7th year at Illinois. The excuses need to stop.
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You might want to take a look at Loyalty Recruiting thread today.
Even the Insider homers are stating the reality of the pressure and expectations and what happens if we fall short again this year.
May not be fair but it is what it is.....
I already mentioned the blue blood expectation without the blue blood history or advantages, yeah. I'd imagine it's a negative among coaches. Or at least coaches are probably more wary than they have been previously of that, especially given how nice and cushy some of those top mid major jobs are.
Our fans are a double-edged sword, for sure.
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This is Underwood's 7th year at Illinois. The excuses need to stop.
Don't think anyone's making excuses, I just don't believe in distorting and revising history to justify firing a guy who's been pretty damn good here. I don't understand the need to act like he's a complete disaster when any objective assessment would be far from that.
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Getting a good feeling on this one....
https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/antonio-reeves-is-currently-taking-summer-classes-at-illinois-state/
Williams I believe will end up having issues, or no immediate play with injury (pushed out 1 year or not at all), Harmon comes still ASSUMING he gets credits needed, and we snag Reeves to give us the punch we need of Reeves/TSJ/Hawkins and a Top 10 ranking with our depth.
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DeKwon Brown from Peoria going to Simeon next year....6'3 PG RayJ wanna be? Good player, we will see, C0-MVP at last years Pango camp.
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Don't think anyone's making excuses, I just don't believe in distorting and revising history to justify firing a guy who's been pretty damn good here. I don't understand the need to act like he's a complete disaster when any objective assessment would be far from that.
Just think top ten pay should equal top 10 results. Also seems that he has lots of NIL support.
No doubt Underwood can make this a perennial tourney team. However, seems doubtful he can make a deep tourney run and justify his pay.
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Uh oh. Here comes 10 more pages about how all Illini fans demand sweet 16s every year.
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Uh oh. Here comes 10 more pages about how all Illini fans demand sweet 16s every year.
A Sweet 16 every 3 years would be nice..
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But again, half of the top-15 highest paid coaches haven't made a S16 in the last four seasons - Underwood is by no means alone in that. It's just not as simple as you make it seem. If it was the best coaches would make it more consistently, and they don't really.
Top-10 results overall? Or only in the single elimination tournament? He may not be exactly top-10 but surely taken as a whole, Underwood's been among the top-15 or -20 coaches in terms of results in the last 4 seasons.
88-40 (54-25 in a high major conference), a conference title and a conference tournament title.
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A Sweet 16 every 3 years would be nice..
Making one when you have 2 All American type players would be nice too.
Making one when you are a 1 seed would be nice too.
Too much to ask for apparently.
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Nope, not at all - and nobody said that, it's just pure straw.
It's just not a thing where if it doesn't happen once it makes sense to throw the whole thing out.
Pretty much every good coach has been upset in the tournament at least once. If their fans took it as a full indictment despite the other 99% of their results and fired them, there'd be Hall of Fame coaches without jobs.
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Getting a good feeling on this one....
https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/antonio-reeves-is-currently-taking-summer-classes-at-illinois-state/
Williams I believe will end up having issues, or no immediate play with injury (pushed out 1 year or not at all), Harmon comes still ASSUMING he gets credits needed, and we snag Reeves to give us the punch we need of Reeves/TSJ/Hawkins and a Top 10 ranking with our depth.
The current word is can't be a grad transfer from ISU while he is on UK's roster.
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Nope, not at all - and nobody said that, it's just pure straw.
It's just not a thing where if it doesn't happen once it makes sense to throw the whole thing out.
Pretty much every good coach has been upset in the tournament at least once. If their fans took it as a full indictment despite the other 99% of their results and fired them, there'd be Hall of Fame coaches without jobs.
There are plenty of other people here who are just satisfied with B1G Regular Season titles.
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There are plenty of other people here who are just satisfied with B1G Regular Season titles.
I am one of those.......UNTIL the regular season becomes the conference Tournament and the NCAA Tourney. ;D
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Uh oh. Here comes 10 more pages about how all Illini fans demand sweet 16s every year.
There's laws against that Jobu...I for one demand for them to be at least 21. ;D
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There's laws against that Jobu...I for one demand for them to be at least 21. ;D
Oh man. Good call
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Certainly seems as if there is still something in the works in regards to Williams?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/brad-underwood-illini-offseason-incredible-144800286.html
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But again, half of the top-15 highest paid coaches haven't made a S16 in the last four seasons - Underwood is by no means alone in that. It's just not as simple as you make it seem. If it was the best coaches would make it more consistently, and they don't really.
Top-10 results overall? Or only in the single elimination tournament? He may not be exactly top-10 but surely taken as a whole, Underwood's been among the top-15 or -20 coaches in terms of results in the last 4 seasons.
88-40 (54-25 in a high major conference), a conference title and a conference tournament title.
Underwood has never made a sweet 16 in his career. How about the others in top 15 pay?
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Underwood has never made a sweet 16 in his career. How about the others in top 15 pay?
A number of them took 8-10 years or more as a head coach to make a S16. Underwood's only been a head coach for 10 seasons, 9 tournaments. Worth noting he's played in 7 of them. He's 4-7 in the tournament.
Kevin Willard's been a head coach for 15 years and hasn't made one. He's 1-5 in the tournament. Ed Cooley got to his first S16 in year 16 he was 1-5 in the tournament before that. Dana Altman in year 25 (2-8). Mick Cronin year 9 (1-3), Huggins year 8 (0-1), Barnes year 10 (0-4).
There are a lot of good coaches on that list that people like you would've fired.
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A number of them took 8-10 years or more as a head coach to make a S16. Underwood's only been a head coach for 10 seasons, 9 tournaments. Worth noting he's played in 7 of them. He's 4-7 in the tournament.
Kevin Willard's been a head coach for 15 years and hasn't made one. He's 1-5 in the tournament. Ed Cooley got to his first S16 in year 16 he was 1-5 in the tournament before that. Dana Altman in year 25 (2-8). Mick Cronin year 9 (1-3), Huggins year 8 (0-1), Barnes year 10 (0-4).
There are a lot of good coaches on that list that people like you would've fired.
Barnes made a Final 4 when he was 49.
Altman made a Sweet 16 at 55 and Elite 8 at 58.
Cronin made a Final 4 at 50.
Huggins made a Final Four at 39.
Cooley made a Sweet 16 at 53.
Underwood is 59 and showing why he was an Assistant for so long.
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Barnes made a Final 4 when he was 49.
Altman made a Sweet 16 at 55 and Elite 8 at 58.
Cronin made a Final 4 at 50.
Huggins made a Final Four at 39.
Cooley made a Sweet 16 at 53.
Underwood is 59 and showing why he was an Assistant for so long.
I mean, if you want to use age rather than experience I suppose go ahead. I think that's pretty silly for self-evident reasons. Doesn't matter how old he is unless he's too old to coach.
Fact of the matter is: you'd have fired most of those guys, and missed out on a bunch of success for it. You'd have fired most of this year's Final Four coaches, including the team who won the title. You'd have fired the guy whose name is on our court. Etc.
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Barnes made a Final 4 when he was 49.
Altman made a Sweet 16 at 55 and Elite 8 at 58.
Cronin made a Final 4 at 50.
Huggins made a Final Four at 39.
Cooley made a Sweet 16 at 53.
Underwood is 59 and showing why he was an Assistant for so long.
Were they 1 seeds and/or have 2 All American caliber players on the team before/when they advanced?
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Most teams didn't have All-Americans, but had at least 2 that sniffed or played NBA ball.
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Most teams didn't have All-Americans, but had at least 2 that sniffed or played NBA ball.
All of the Illini teams that made the S16 had elite talent, even the 1963 and 1981 teams that had first round byes. Probably even the earlier teams when there were only 8 or 16 teams.
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I mean, if you want to use age rather than experience I suppose go ahead. I think that's pretty silly for self-evident reasons. Doesn't matter how old he is unless he's too old to coach.
Fact of the matter is: you'd have fired most of those guys, and missed out on a bunch of success for it. You'd have fired most of this year's Final Four coaches, including the team who won the title. You'd have fired the guy whose name is on our court. Etc.
Lol. Underwood has been in coaching for 37 years. He's not inexperienced!
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Lol. Underwood has been in coaching for 37 years. He's not inexperienced!
He is inexperienced in making it to the S16...Let's hope that changes soon.
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I don’t think Underwood’s age is all-telling, but it’s definitely not a nothing-burger.
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Off topic but relevant to this thread…
I think if Hawkins can be more assertive on offense, I see him being a player comparison to Michael Porter Jr’s game.
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Off topic but relevant to this thread…
HQ2 summed up in one sentence....
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Off topic but relevant to this thread…
I think if Hawkins can be more assertive on offense, I see him being a player comparison to Michael Porter Jr’s game.
I'm lost
Is he on nuggets
He went to mizzou
What's his style
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Lol. Underwood has been in coaching for 37 years. He's not inexperienced!
So, he has at least one E8, in 2010.
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Lol. Underwood has been in coaching for 37 years. He's not inexperienced!
He has been a head coach for 10 seasons, 9 tournaments - as I said.
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Most teams didn't have All-Americans, but had at least 2 that sniffed or played NBA ball.
Were they number 1 seeds?
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I don’t think Underwood’s age is all-telling, but it’s definitely not a nothing-burger.
It completely, absolutely is though. It's a thing to whine about, which this board treats like red meat every. single. time., but it doesn't actually matter even 0.1%.
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It completely, absolutely is though. It's a thing to whine about, which this board treats like red meat every. single. time., but it doesn't actually matter even 0.1%.
How many really great coaches don’t get their first high major gig until mid 50s? There could be a few examples, but I can’t think of any.
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What practical, identifiable difference could it possibly make?
The answer, as we both know, is none.
It matters whether he wins, not how old he is. His age simply could not possibly matter less.
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He has been a head coach for 10 seasons, 9 tournaments - as I said.
Need better results from a guy getting paid so much.
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You'd have fired most of the coaches who had the most tournament success this year. Says all I need to know about that sort of short-sighted thinking. That sort of thinking actively undermines program success. I'm not quite naive enough to believe it actually has anything to do with his paychecks either - doesn't matter how much he's getting paid, it doesn't affect anything at all other than our likelihood of keeping him around. You all would still be whining about him if he was making $500k a year, no question.
He can't last forever not winning enough in the tournament, obviously, but wanting to fire a guy who brought our program back to relevance because of one real upset in three tournament appearances is the most short-sighted, small-time thinking I've ever heard of. It's a great way to put us back at the starting line with an empty cupboard and no national relevance. Personally I like losing in the second round a whole lot more than I like watching the whole thing on TV.
My favorite thing was the one Loyalty guy who I saw insisting that Underwood's on the chopping block this year and we're going to get Musselman or Miller - same as when we got Smart or Stevens. We almost certainly will not get one of those guys.
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Off topic but relevant to this thread…
I think if Hawkins can be more assertive on offense, I see him being a player comparison to Michael Porter Jr’s game.
That's a big climb. Although similar in size, MPJ is way more athletic and his 3pt shoting (except in finals) is why he would have been a lotto pick. His bad back let him drop to the Nugs mid-first. I'd rate their rebounding, passing and D as somewhat comparable but MPJ's quick release on the jumper is exceptional for a big.
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That's a big climb. Although similar in size, MPJ is way more athletic and his 3pt shoting (except in finals) is why he would have been a lotto pick. His bad back let him drop to the Nugs mid-first. I'd rate their rebounding, passing and D as somewhat comparable but MPJ's quick release on the jumper is exceptional for a big.
I’d agree, but I’m saying Hawkins has the potential if he becomes more aggressive on offense and changes his mindset. He needs to mature and gain more confidence in that area of his game. I do think MPJ is the type he should strive for.
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Hawkins is a little better defender and a lot better passer, but WAY, WAY worse as a scorer than MPJ ever was. It's not really close. MPJ was the presumed top pick, and for good reason, for a couple years before he blew his back out and slipped in the draft.
MPJ's biggest downside is he never, ever passes the rock - Hawkins is a really good passer for his size. MPJ's biggest upside is he's a lights out shooter and can use his elite athleticism to get easy buckets - Hawkins is just miles behind in those areas. MPJ is more 3 than 4, and Hawkins definitely can't play the 3 much.
Very very different players.
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Hawkins is a little better defender and a lot better passer, but WAY, WAY worse as a scorer than MPJ ever was. It's not really close. MPJ was the presumed top pick, and for good reason, for a couple years before he blew his back out and slipped in the draft.
MPJ's biggest downside is he never, ever passes the rock - Hawkins is a really good passer for his size. MPJ's biggest upside is he's a lights out shooter and can use his elite athleticism to get easy buckets - Hawkins is just miles behind in those areas. MPJ is more 3 than 4, and Hawkins definitely can't play the 3 much.
Very very different players.
I guess I misspoke or having a hard time explaining my thoughts. Hawkins has a long way to go but he should model his game after MPJ. I think he has the potential. Not the MPJ before the back injuries, but after. I guess I wanna see what Hawkins can do if he asserts himself with the scoring attitude of a MPJ if that makes sense.
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If anybody he should model his game after someone like LaMarcus Aldridge or Kevin Love. A good passer, good rebounder, three level scorer.
He's never going to be an elite shooter like MPJ, or have his run-and-jump athleticism. But he can be an effective player aiming at a triple double every night (something MPJ could never do as his career high in assists is 5 and Coleman had 6+ five separate times last year)
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If anybody he should model his game after someone like LaMarcus Aldridge or Kevin Love. A good passer, good rebounder, three level scorer.
He's never going to be an elite shooter like MPJ, or have his run-and-jump athleticism. But he can be an effective player aiming at a triple double every night (something MPJ could never do as his career high in assists is 5 and Coleman had 6+ five separate times last year)
Fair. Yes MPJ is a crazy ball hog that never passes the ball for sure.
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You'd have fired most of the coaches who had the most tournament success this year. Says all I need to know about that sort of short-sighted thinking. That sort of thinking actively undermines program success. I'm not quite naive enough to believe it actually has anything to do with his paychecks either - doesn't matter how much he's getting paid, it doesn't affect anything at all other than our likelihood of keeping him around. You all would still be whining about him if he was making $500k a year, no question.
He can't last forever not winning enough in the tournament, obviously, but wanting to fire a guy who brought our program back to relevance because of one real upset in three tournament appearances is the most short-sighted, small-time thinking I've ever heard of. It's a great way to put us back at the starting line with an empty cupboard and no national relevance. Personally I like losing in the second round a whole lot more than I like watching the whole thing on TV.
My favorite thing was the one Loyalty guy who I saw insisting that Underwood's on the chopping block this year and we're going to get Musselman or Miller - same as when we got Smart or Stevens. We almost certainly will not get one of those guys.
I haven't fired anyone, Squeaky Jr.
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What practical, identifiable difference could it possibly make?
The answer, as we both know, is none.
It matters whether he wins, not how old he is. His age simply could not possibly matter less.
It would make him a great outlier if he were to win at the highest level. That's not to say he can't, just that it would be unlikely. Seeing as how no one we can think of has done it.
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Only because you can't; it's pretty clear you would've fired him last year.
I think it's pretty clear based on that that you'd have fired most of the E8 and F4 coaches before last season, because they mostly had had less success than Underwood lately.
Squeaky Jr? Nobody would be here agreeing with you more loudly than Truth. He agreed with you completely, and - surely coincidentally - also actively wants Illinois Basketball to be bad.
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It would make him a great outlier if he were to win at the highest level. That's not to say he can't, just that it would be unlikely. Seeing as how no one we can think of has done it.
You can't even come up with a way it MIGHT matter. Because there's no way it could.
Underwood was 52 when he got his first high major head coaching job - Bo Ryan was 54. John Beilein was 49. Jim Larranaga was 62. Jim Calhoun was 44. Dana Altman was 52. Bruce Pearl was 45. Eric Musselman was 54 (this one surprised me most, because he looks like he's about 41 years old right now). Jerome Tang is 55 and just finished his first year as a head coach at any level. Rodney Terry is 55 and just got the interim tag removed.
Lots of successful coaches start their careers relatively late. They're typically not high on the all-time wins list for obvious reasons, but getting a late start on being a head coach or a high major head coach has never prevented someone from being successful. You have yet to articulate even HOW that could happen.
I also discovered in looking this stuff up that apparently Kenny Payne was the 25th highest paid coach nationally last year. Now THAT is underperforming.
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You can't even come up with a way it MIGHT matter. Because there's no way it could.
Underwood was 52 when he got his first high major head coaching job - Bo Ryan was 54. John Beilein was 49. Jim Larranaga was 62. Jim Calhoun was 44. Dana Altman was 52. Bruce Pearl was 45. Eric Musselman was 54 (this one surprised me most, because he looks like he's about 41 years old right now). Jerome Tang is 55 and just finished his first year as a head coach at any level. Rodney Terry is 55 and just got the interim tag removed.
Lots of successful coaches start their careers relatively late. They're typically not high on the all-time wins list for obvious reasons, but getting a late start on being a head coach or a high major head coach has never prevented someone from being successful. You have yet to articulate even HOW that could happen.
Again, statistically, it would make him a great outlier. It doesn't mean he "can't."
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Sure man, I'm sure it's a thing if you think it is, regardless of the examples.
Not that this is news, but you're much more susceptible to fan-driven "I can't provide evidence that this matters but I'm sure it does" type arguments than I am. I'm much more evidence driven, and provided evidence of a bunch of good coaches who started late.
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You can't even come up with a way it MIGHT matter. Because there's no way it could.
Underwood was 52 when he got his first high major head coaching job - Bo Ryan was 54. John Beilein was 49. Jim Larranaga was 62. Jim Calhoun was 44. Dana Altman was 52. Bruce Pearl was 45. Eric Musselman was 54 (this one surprised me most, because he looks like he's about 41 years old right now). Jerome Tang is 55 and just finished his first year as a head coach at any level. Rodney Terry is 55 and just got the interim tag removed.
Lots of successful coaches start their careers relatively late. They're typically not high on the all-time wins list for obvious reasons, but getting a late start on being a head coach or a high major head coach has never prevented someone from being successful. You have yet to articulate even HOW that could happen.
I also discovered in looking this stuff up that apparently Kenny Payne was the 25th highest paid coach nationally last year. Now THAT is underperforming.
Dana Altman got his first high major gig at like 32. Most of those others were head coaches for a while at other programs at a much younger age (Bo Ryan was highly successful for a long time I believe). I don't consider getting a HC job at 44 the same as getting one well into your 50s.
Jerome Tang is probably the best example. He looks like the real deal, but we'll see if he has staying power.
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My bad on Altman, missed that he'd had a failed run at Kansas State and left for a mid-major. Not sure that really supports your argument, but I was definitely wrong on his age - my bad.
I don't think Tang is any better example than Bo Ryan, OTHER THAN he and Underwood are fighting the same rule changes that Bo Ryan never had to deal with. A bunch of those coaches who didn't start at this level until relatively late had great careers though. Surely you could make a similar list of guys who started their careers as head coaches in their early or mid-30's and washed out. I also think Tang is Exhibit A of the "what have you done for me lately" type thinking. Everyone was drooling over him making an E8 but he has to rebuild that whole team this year. Remains to be seen if he's even a consistently good coach.
Other than as a thing for fans to talk about, I just can't see any correlation between the age you start as a coach or a high major coach and your success.
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But most of them had much larger track records as HCs, minus Tang.
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And Altman had a long successful run at Creighton. Not exactly a late bloomer.
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Not to mention, Altman wasn't fired from Kansas State, He left to accept the job at Creighton.
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I'm surprised the idea of leaving the Big 12 for the Missouri Valley willingly doesn't break your brain. That's the kind of thing you consistently argue basically no one would ever do.
He wasn't going to last long at KSU though. So it makes sense. It'd be like if we missed the tournament this year and Underwood took a job at Indiana State.
Altman also won 2 tournament games in his first 24 seasons before he made his first S16 in year 25.
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I'm surprised the idea of leaving the Big 12 for the Missouri Valley willingly doesn't break your brain. That's the kind of thing you consistently argue basically no one would ever do.
He wasn't going to last long at KSU though. So it makes sense. It'd be like if we missed the tournament this year and Underwood took a job at Indiana State.
Different era. That's how long ago it was. Sometimes people just aren't happy. It's not like Manhattan KS is heaven.
Larranaga has also been a HC for 2/3rds of Underwood's life.
Again', about the only real comparison is Tang. But I do like Tang.
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Tang is probably the worst comparison on the list IMO. I almost didn't even mention him, because he has nowhere near the sample size as even Underwood, let alone the other guys on that list.
Explain why Tang is a better comparison than, say, Bo Ryan.
Yes, Larranaga has coached for a long time. He didn't get a high major job until he'd been coaching for 25 seasons. He had one amazing tournament run at George Mason, and won one other tournament game outside that run in those 25 years.
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Bo Ryan was a highly successful head coach for like 25 years before getting the Wisconsin job. And yes, I’d still consider Bo Ryan that rare outlier.
Tang is the one guy that had less experience than Underwood at 52 (that I’m aware of).
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Bo Ryan was a highly successful head coach for like 25 years before getting the Wisconsin job. And yes, I’d still consider Bo Ryan that rare outlier.
Tang is the one guy that had less experience than Underwood at 52 (that I’m aware of).
Bo Ryan was coaching for 25 years in Division III before he got UW-Milwaukee job, where he stayed for only two years. Like, he coached at a level that literally doesn't offer athletic scholarships.
Isn't this exactly the thing you're criticizing Underwood for, except Underwood was actually coaching in Division I, and for less time?
Underwood had considerably more success and experience as a head coach at this level when we hired him than Bo Ryan did when Wisconsin hired him. Way more. If we hired Herb Magee or Dave Holmquist to be our head coach would you say they're really experienced? Hell, they're some of the winningest and most experienced coaches in NCAA history - and started young, too.
My guess is you don't even know who those guys are without looking them up, even though they're #2 and #4 on the all time winningest college basketball coaches list.
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If we're using that logic, then Brad Underwood actually got his first college head coaching job at age 25 and had more than a decade of CBB head coaching experience when we hired him.
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Only because you can't; it's pretty clear you would've fired him last year.
I think it's pretty clear based on that that you'd have fired most of the E8 and F4 coaches before last season, because they mostly had had less success than Underwood lately.
Squeaky Jr? Nobody would be here agreeing with you more loudly than Truth. He agreed with you completely, and - surely coincidentally - also actively wants Illinois Basketball to be bad.
Wtf.
You're just throwing wild haymakers like Squeaky.
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You haven't even attempted to make a well-evidenced point yet, so no worries.
You called me Squeaky Jr. 'Squeaky' agrees with you, not me. He also has wanted Illinois basketball to be bad for multiple decades.
I found being compared to Truth by someone making literally the exact same arguments he makes constantly pretty funny.
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You haven't even attempted to make a well-evidenced point yet, so no worries.
You called me Squeaky Jr. 'Squeaky' agrees with you, not me. He also has wanted Illinois basketball to be bad for multiple decades.
I found being compared to Truth by someone making literally the exact same arguments he makes constantly pretty funny.
I don't root against Illinois, but keep making stuff up, kid.
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Lol sure D3, but Bo Ryan won 4 national titles. I guess that’s not like coaching at a couple of community colleges, but close enough.
The point is, it’s a much less traveled avenue to be a highly successful HC who didn’t really get a shot at the big time until he was well into his 50s. It’s doesn’t mean Underwood can’t or won’t be highly successful.
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If we hired Herb Magee or Dave Holmquist to be our head coach would you say they're really
My guess is you don't even know who those guys are without looking them up, even though they're #2 and #4 on the all time winningest college basketball coaches list.
Those names sound vaguely familiar, but I could be confusing them with HOF harness driver Dave Magee, who was the leading driver in Chicago for many years…
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I don't root against Illinois, but keep making stuff up, kid.
No, you just coincidentally make identical arguments to those who do and never stop to think about that.
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Lol sure D3, but Bo Ryan won 4 national titles. I guess that’s not like coaching at a couple of community colleges, but close enough.
The point is, it’s a much less traveled avenue to be a highly successful HC who didn’t really get a shot at the big time until he was well into his 50s. It’s doesn’t mean Underwood can’t or won’t be highly successful.
Correct - JUCO, especially D1 JUCOs, offer scholarships and get considerably better talent than most D3 schools. There's a reason you see an influx of JUCO guys coming into high major D1 schools every year but rarely see D3 transfers.
I got offered out of high school to play division 3 basketball and football (along with baseball). I had never played basketball or football at anything above a Park District, everyone gets to play type level. It's not remotely comparable to D1 basketball.
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Those names sound vaguely familiar, but I could be confusing them with HOF harness driver Dave Magee, who was the leading driver in Chicago for many years…
What's a harness driver? Is that like a jockey?
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Those names sound vaguely familiar, but I could be confusing them with HOF harness driver Dave Magee, who was the leading driver in Chicago for many years…
They're two of the five winningest coaches in NCAA history and you've maybe heard of them. Both coached in a higher division than Bo Ryan did.
I'm fine with the "Bo Ryan had a bunch of head coach experience" argument, but saying that while also saying Underwood got his first head coaching job in his 50's instead of his mid-20's makes no sense at all. Either count lower level experience, or don't. Don't just change the criteria based on the argument you're trying to make, be consistent.
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Not in this dude's Top 25....
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/36058691/2023-24-way-too-early-top-25-men-college-basketball-rankings
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Not in this dude's Top 25....
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/36058691/2023-24-way-too-early-top-25-men-college-basketball-rankings
Or in the next 5, and 7 games vs this guy's top 10.
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Or in the next 5, and 7 games vs this guy's top 10.
Yeah that list is a joke.
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Or in the next 5, and 7 games vs this guy's top 10.
Better be able to shoot Free Shots.
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Better be able to shoot Free Shots.
True. You've gotta make 5 for a jacked up 3 that leads to a transition bucket for the other guys.
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Not in this dude's Top 25....
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/36058691/2023-24-way-too-early-top-25-men-college-basketball-rankings
That's a pretty legit Top 25 imo, St Johns looking in is all based on coach....ILLINI don't do well with May factored in, sooooooooooo.... ;D
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One thing that I think hasn't been discussed in regards to Ty Rodgers playing point (which I think is legit), is that Rodgers loves to drive the ball and get to the hoop (he did so throughout HS, maybe a reason his shot is not on par), and if this is the plan with him at point, then the 3's will rain this year again.
Hawk has a chance to improve outside shot and draft status
TSJ has a chance to be more consistant from mid to 3 range as well as penetrate off the push.
Domask will be lethal imo with getting 3's and mid range shots set up off penetration.
Harmon/DGL may provide a completely different flow to our game, once in the game
Williams is the unknown and IF he still becomes an ILLINI, I would expect the waiver to play out. He will be a huge asset once healthy, if he cannot get healthy for this year, then 2024 it is.
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Oregon transfer Quincy Guerrier has made it to Champaign.
https://twitter.com/DPiper247/status/1672001135090241536?s=20
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Sounds like Jeremiah Williams will not make it here, re-opening his recruitment.
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I do think it's wild that the NCAA is letting us (and others) operate the way we are, openly bidding on players etc. It was explicitly not supposed to be that, and IMO it shouldn't be that.
Players DO deserve to be able to leverage their NIL like anyone else could, but this "put together a giant NIL package to bid on guys at auction" setup is nuts and explicitly against the rules. I feel like players shouldn't be allowed to discuss/sign NIL deals until they're on campus, maybe even until they've played a game.
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Sounds like Jeremiah Williams will not make it here, re-opening his recruitment.
NOW go get a PG (kirsa??)
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NOW go get a PG (kirsa??)
Clark. Gone.
Epps. Gone.
Dennis. No thanks.
Williams. See ya.
I guess it's back to the NIL store to see what, if anything, is available.
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NOW go get a PG (kirsa??)
they are saying Brad is a hard pass on Kerr.
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they are saying Brad is a hard pass on Kerr.
I heard that too and keep wondering why…
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they are saying Brad is a hard pass on Kerr.
Guy may have some baggage with where he's wound up but beggars can't be choosers and I'd dump a lot of NIL cash to get a 10/5 PG who was a 2 year starter at Zona.
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they are saying Brad is a hard pass on Kerr.
That's the blowhard Indy Illini Fan. The one who is supposedly best buds with Miller, Self, Underwood, Painter, etc. He claims to know everything.
He also has said Podz, Moretti, Certa, and the big kid from Yorkville are not B1G / HM material.
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Sounds like Jeremiah Williams will not make it here, re-opening his recruitment.
Never heard of him.
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Underwood's backup plan to RayJ was a player who was coming off a serious injury & didn't even have the right credits to get in. ..😑
Rodgers will probably do fine @ PG though.
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NOW go get a PG (kirsa??)
Joe Toussaint, from WVa, entered the portal also.
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Joe Toussaint, from WVa, entered the portal also.
I would take Toussaint as well.
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Toussaint is an interesting case. He'll be a 5th year senior. Has transferred once. Does he need a waiver? No. He already used his grad transfer, but has a one time transfer. Has to use the special 30 day window for WVA players.
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I think I’d rather have Touissant than Kriisa honestly. We don’t need hero ball, just an experienced guy that can run the offense and get a bucket when needed.
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Toussaint has 2 years of Big10 hoops under his belt.
And he was willing to transfer to play for an angry white guy at WVa. ;D
Let Rodgers be Rodgers instead of a trial pg.
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I think I’d rather have Touissant than Kriisa honestly. We don’t need hero ball, just an experienced guy that can run the offense and get a bucket when needed.
I’ll take “Post I’ve read every year since 2007, Alex.”
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I'd rather have someone that has been in the system for at least a year run the PG. Rodgers is a better athlete and has a better attitude than most. Even though he doesn't shoot that well, he takes much better shots and plays good defense. You also don't want him to transfer away.
Just give him the keys and see how he does.
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I'd rather have someone that has been in the system for at least a year run the PG. Rodgers is a better athlete and has a better attitude than most. Even though he doesn't shoot that well, he takes much better shots and plays good defense. You also don't want him to transfer away.
Just give him the keys and see how he does.
Looks like that is how they are leaning.
Allegedly DGL doing well in practice and Harmon is now eligible and can play some at PG also.
Between those three and spot minutes by Harris and TSJ sliding over you have the position filled.
I like Toussaint a lot, but he has about 15 schools contacting him (Illinois is reported as one of them).
Another guy available now is Quinerly from Alabama.
Either would be good, but hard to say wtf staff is doing right now or if we have any chance.
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I don't see us adding
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I don't see us adding
Agree. When Underwood gets a hard on for a kid (DaMonte) he will ride till he dies.
Rodgers is his new guy IMO.
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When Underwood gets a hard on for a kid (DaMonte) he will ride till he dies.
Well, this is pretty fucking gross.
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Well, this is pretty fucking gross.
But very accurate 🎯
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This actually isn’t a bad design. I kinda like it…
https://twitter.com/217showers/status/1673360969588776962?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
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Well, this is pretty fucking gross.
LOL.
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I feel like this season will either be somewhat successful or we will be a straight up bubble team
I could see us losing 4 non conference games
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This actually isn’t a bad design. I kinda like it…
(https://i.ibb.co/hLFw7P5/Resized-20190307-091800-709003882090778.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pbj50tD)
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(https://i.ibb.co/hLFw7P5/Resized-20190307-091800-709003882090778.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pbj50tD)
Yeah I like this one too.
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Yeah I like this one too.
LOL. Looks like WWI Illini.
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LOL. Looks like WWI Illini.
Yep. 189 of them.
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Yep. 189 of them.
Hence Memorial Stadium…
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This actually isn’t a bad design. I kinda like it…
https://twitter.com/217showers/status/1673360969588776962?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
What Da Fugg you say? Damn those are hideous...we NAIA all of a sudden? Google NAIA bird logo and see where this is different?
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Hence Memorial Stadium…
I didn't know that. Thanks.
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This is depressing.
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This is depressing.
Yeah, it could be another season of limited success unless this group gels well and the PG by Committee experiment works out.
Getting Harmon admitted helps to have an experienced guard to help but he is not a PG really.
Hard to say if the reports out of practice of Rodgers and DGL looking good will mean anything yet.
I am curious to see how it works out. The Spain trip will provide some info.
We should be better than last year which was brutal to watch even though we made the NCAA tourney.
And without question not getting an experienced decent PG is a fail.
Hopefully it works out.
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I didn't know that. Thanks.
To clarify for you, the names of the 189 fallen Illini are inscribed on 189 of the columns at the stadium.
On a separate note, I have no interest in becoming the Fighting Kingfishers.
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To clarify for you, the names of the 189 fallen Illini are inscribed on 189 of the columns at the stadium.
On a separate note, I have no interest in becoming the Fighting Kingfishers.
Yeah super cringeworthy
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Excuse my ignorance, but why the kingfisher?
And, yuck. Double fuckin' yuck.
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Excuse my ignorance, but why the kingfisher?
And, yuck. Double fuckin' yuck.
Stay ignorant. You're better off. ;D
Just let the kingfisher idea go away.
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The original Fighting Illini from WW I.
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Ty Rodgers talks about culture
https://twitter.com/DPiper247/status/1674583827837075456?t=eeG4obbxDCRbCP6R5Ijrcw&s=19
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https://www.youtube.com/live/0x-2habsCh4?feature=share
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https://www.youtube.com/live/0x-2habsCh4?feature=share
That is a GREAT listen on the basketball portion for all of us armchair fans.
Sure sounds as we have our PG in Ty. My guess is at worst another Grad transfer or even holding last one for mid season option.
Looking forward to this year, Ty sounds like a leader already....the "great human being" comment speaks volume.
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Nothing new here, but it's been a slow week.
https://www.news-gazette.com/newsletter/content/sports/illini_basketball/good-morning-illini-nation-updated-2023-24-projections/article_d94fbfc3-2b38-5047-b235-e077e8343810.html
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https://www.wcia.com/sports/your-illini-nation/brad-underwood-on-roster-right-now-this-is-who-we-are/
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https://www.offtackleempire.com/2023/7/12/23792685/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-fans-are-mad-online-because-theyre-going-to-be-bad-this-year
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https://www.offtackleempire.com/2023/7/12/23792685/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-fans-are-mad-online-because-theyre-going-to-be-bad-this-year
Written by Squeaky?
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https://www.offtackleempire.com/2023/7/12/23792685/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-fans-are-mad-online-because-theyre-going-to-be-bad-this-year
Seems pretty accurate.
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I'll just say this
THIS could be a break or make year
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https://www.offtackleempire.com/2023/7/12/23792685/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-fans-are-mad-online-because-theyre-going-to-be-bad-this-year
This legitimately might be the all time dumbest article I've ever read, holy shit.
Like, it's KIND OF satire maybe?
What kind of site even is that? I can't discern a theme from the headlines.
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Seems pretty accurate.
LOL, of course.
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LOL, of course.
You do not realize how known the Illini fanbase is for being wacked out on The Twitter?
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The author does add this to the end of the post.
“Yes, this is for social media engagement. No, this isn’t the only type of post I’ll be doing anymore. No, Juwan is never beating Illinois. I promise I’ll write something Actually Good this week.“
I just thought it was funny. Don’t know how accurate it is. I’ve probably never been this disengaged from Illini Basketball. Not since I lived out of state in the mid to late 90s anyway.
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The author does add this to the end of the post.
“Yes, this is for social media engagement. No, this isn’t the only type of post I’ll be doing anymore. No, Juwan is never beating Illinois. I promise I’ll write something Actually Good this week.“
I just thought it was funny. Don’t know how accurate it is. I’ve probably never been this disengaged from Illini Basketball. Not since I lived out of state in the mid to late 90s anyway.
It's wild that you were engaged throughout the Weber and Groce years more than you were when we finally became a good program again.
The article was so stupid that I'm kinda shocked even a free, volunteer staff type site would put their byline on it. Someone wasted time writing it, and I wasted time reading it.
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It's wild that you were engaged throughout the Weber and Groce years more than you were when we finally became a good program again.
The article was so stupid that I'm kinda shocked even a free, volunteer staff type site would put their byline on it. Someone wasted time writing it, and I wasted time reading it.
You read an article that Tempo linked. That's on you.
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You read an article that Tempo linked. That's on you.iu
That’s right, pudwhack.
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It's wild that you were engaged throughout the Weber and Groce years more than you were when we finally became a good program again.
The article was so stupid that I'm kinda shocked even a free, volunteer staff type site would put their byline on it. Someone wasted time writing it, and I wasted time reading it.
I was pretty hyped the 1 seed year. But I fear I may have fell for the banana in the tailpipe.
The article was obviously posted for comedic effect (by the author). Maybe we should lighten up a little. I posted it hoping someone would find it funny. I should’ve known better.
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Oh, I mean ankle biting pudwhack.
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This is how I feel nowadays. It would be nice if they are good. Rather than hoping and putting energy into it.
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I was pretty hyped the 1 seed year. But I fear I may have fell for the banana in the tailpipe.
The article was obviously posted for comedic effect (by the author). Maybe we should lighten up a little. I posted it hoping someone would find it funny. I should’ve known better.
Well yeah, it wasn't funny. I get that it was trying to be, it just failed at that goal - and the result was a complete waste of time and bytes to write and read.
I think the fact that you were more engaged when we were bad than when we became good again says more about you than the program.
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Sensitive Illinois fan finds satirical article about how much Illinois might suck next year not funny. News at 11.
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That article was targeted for the people you make fun of here. I’m surprised you don’t find some humor in it.
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How is this not at least somewhat amusing. Because it’s true. This is what’s been said on Illini forums.
[It’s just the same story as every year in the Brad Underwood era, they blame departing players and talk about how much better the new guys are! Before it was Skyy Clark’s fault, it was Andre Curbelo’s fault, and before his it was Ayo Dosunmu’s, and before that it was Andres Feliz’s fault that Illinois didn’t win a single game in the 2020 NCAA Tournament!]
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Sensitive Illinois fan finds satirical article about how much Illinois might suck next year not funny. News at 11.
I'm not offended by it at all, I just like my comedy to have a bit of humor in it.
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https://247sports.com/college/illinois/longformarticle/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-adam-fletcher-qa-summer-workouts-213386883/#2203860
Good read, thanks Fletch
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https://247sports.com/college/illinois/longformarticle/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-adam-fletcher-qa-summer-workouts-213386883/#2203860
Good read, thanks Fletch
Thanks that was a good read
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https://247sports.com/college/illinois/longformarticle/illinois-fighting-illini-basketball-adam-fletcher-qa-summer-workouts-213386883/#2203860
Good read, thanks Fletch
Seems to imply the locker room issues are non-existent this year. Let's hope that's the case.
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This team will be miles better than last year. All reports i have heard is nothing but positive
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This team will be miles better than last year. All reports i have heard is nothing but positive
All off season reports are positive. News at 11!
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All off season reports are positive. News at 11!
Wasn't it Alex Legion who was getting Kobe comparisons?
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Wasn't it Alex Legion who was getting Kobe comparisons?
I don’t remember that. But he was a massive disappointment for sure.
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Good article. Lot of euphemism is that next to last question and answer.
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This team will be miles better than last year. All reports i have heard is nothing but positive
Lots of good reports on our 6’7” point forward that can’t shoot a lick?
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Lots of good reports on our 6’7” point forward that can’t shoot a lick?
I would expect to see the distribution to the wings, with him taking a high/low post presence with some cuts and dump downs for layups/post ups. That is his forte anyway...and it will also keep him in rebounding position. He may be our best rebounder anyways.
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In clips of practice they were running the same flex bullshit they have been running forever.
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In clips of practice they were running the same flex bullshit they have been running forever.
Should be another great start before they change offenses to actually fit the roster
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Do we have a point guard? Michigan State has 3+, their offense typically rolls when have they have good PG play. Go figure. We haven't had a true PG in a few years.
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The guy who had 2 assists and 3 turnovers to go with his 1-5 on free shots is our pg, the position player most teams rely on at the end of the game to handle the ball and make free shots.
Bear in mind tho, it's not January yet.
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The guy who had 2 assists and 3 turnovers to go with his 1-5 on free shots is our pg, the position player most teams rely on at the end of the game to handle the ball and make free shots.
Bear in mind tho, it's not January yet.
We have to wait until January 16th. The date of the anniversary of the coup attempt is too soon to tell.
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J6+10 will have to wait. Kansas just lost to an exhibition team and we're undefeated.
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J6+10 will have to wait. Kansas just lost to an exhibition team and we're undefeated.
Lol