IlliniHQ 2
General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: illiniray on February 09, 2023, 02:41:14 PM
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MJ is clearly the best basketball ever. Who is second best is debatable. I think there is actually a large second tier:
The Big O
Bill Russell
The Big Dipper
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Dr. J
Bird
Magic
Hakeem
The Mailman
Moses
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron
More:
Cousy
Bob Pettit
Mikan
Hondo
Jerry West
Pistol Pete
Zeke
Iceman
Duncan
The Admiral
Ewing
Sir Charles
Paul Pierce
Dirk
Durant
Stephen Curry
Off the top of my head.
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Bill Russell won 11 rings.
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Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
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I have to give it to LeBron. He won playing with Kyrie. That's a lift. I also considered Russell, Curry, Wilt, and Jabbar for changing the game in their day.
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I'd dramatically shrink that 2nd tier.
Would vote Magic or Lebron myself.
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I’d have to go with John Havlicek, the best sixth man in the history of professional basketball. Played on eight NBA championship teams.
And, to top it off, Hondo had a great singing voice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oD0m7CHx1g
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Why is Jordan the unquestioned #1?
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gt!! Old
Why is Jordan the unquestioned #1?
Bob Knight said so..
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Shaq is the most dominant player I have ever seen, (too young to watch Wilt Chamberlain) but the best? That's a tough one to call in a team sport. Hate to say it but LeBron is definitely up there, for my #2 I'd go with Kareem... dude won huge at every level, 3 time ncaa champ, 6 time nba champ, prior scoring leader, etc
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Why is Jordan the unquestioned #1?
Why the bow tie?
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My initial other list included Jerry Lucas, the Big E, Spencer Haywood, and Dominique Wilkins.
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Did Wilkins ever make it out of the first round of the playoffs?
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"Few athletes have impacted their sport on a worldwide level more than Meadowlark Lemon."
🤡🏀
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"Few athletes have impacted their sport on a worldwide level more than Meadowlark Lemon."
🤡🏀
Curley Neal was really good at dribbling.
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Curley Neal was really good at dribbling.
Red Klotz was an accomplished loser.
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Red Klotz was an accomplished loser.
The Washington General always get screwed by the refs.
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The Washington General always get screwed by the refs.
To their credit, they didn't bitch about it incessantly. 😁
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Did Wilkins ever make it out of the first round of the playoffs?
Farthest he ever went looks like was losing game 7 of the conference semis in 88. Sucks that he never had the supporting cast and the Celts, Pistons, and later the Bulls were roadblocks but that sort-of removes him from the best-of discussion.
With the advanced metrics, he's showing up as a comparable to guys like Clyde Drexler, Chauncey Billups, Chet Walker, Scottie Pippen, Tony Parker, etc., all of whom won rings.
Amazing player, but no where near the penthouse.
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Eli Manning won 2 Super Bowl rings. No sane person says he is even a top 20 player.
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"Few athletes have impacted their sport on a worldwide level more than Meadowlark Lemon."
🤡🏀
David Stern impacted the NBA in a way few have. I don’t think that statement necessarily states he was an actual all-time great player. But he was a great ambassador for basketball.
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Dominique Wilkins is only in the “best of” discussions when it comes to dunking. Great player, but he does not belong in the GOAT discussion. That list is probably 12 players long, max. And that’s if you’re talking 1 AND 2.
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Dominique Wilkins is only in the “best of” discussions when it comes to dunking. Great player, but he does not belong in the GOAT discussion. That list is probably 12 players long, max. And that’s if you’re talking 1 AND 2.
There were a few others on my initial off the top of my head "more" list.
12 sounds like a good number. The second 12.
I would trim most of the more list.
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Why is Jordan the unquestioned #1?
14 All-Star appearances, 10 Scoring titles, 11 All-NBA selections, 2 Olympic Golds, 6 NBA championships, 6 Finals MVP and 5 league MVPs
“The kid is just an absolutely great kid. If I were going to pick the 3 or 4 best athletes I’ve ever seen play basketball, he’d be one of them. I think he’s the best athlete I’ve ever seen play basketball. If I were gonna pick 3-4 with the best ability I’d ever seen play the game, he’d be one of them. If I’m gonna pick the best competitor that I’ve ever seen play, he’d be one of them.
So, in the categories of competitiveness, ability, skill and then athletic ability, he’s the best athlete, he’s one of the best competitors, he’s one of the most skilled players. And that to me makes him the best basketball player that I’ve ever seen play”
Bob Knight 1984
https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/1287104381574422528?t=ewf1sSmSQnk8MfLBwldjgw&s=19
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Super 70s Sports is one of the best follows in Twitter imo. Not that anyone here uses Twitter.
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Super 70s Sports is one of the best follows in Twitter imo. Not that anyone here uses Twitter.
I recently (about 6 months ago) started following it and I have to agree. Great page!
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I’m sure it’s too uncouth, unrefined and insensitive for Tempo, but I enjoy it.
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Super 70s Sports is a fun twitter account. Too bad the site's going to slowly crumble under the weight of idiots.
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Twitter can be entertaining when you're pwning the complete morons.
It's not as fun when it's a giant echo chamber for the ultrastupid people.
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#1 MJ
Second Tier:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Magic
Kobe
LeBron
The Big O
Bill Russell
The Big Dipper
Dr. J
Bird
Plus three of:
Shaq
Hakeem
The Mailman
Cousy
Hondo
Duncan
Sir Charles
Durant
Stephen Curry
Edit: Cousy belongs in this discussion. He changed the way the NBA game was played by incorporating some Globetrotter style ball handling, passing, and shooting.
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I’m sure it’s too uncouth, unrefined and insensitive for Tempo, but I enjoy it.
Imma check it out.
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I’m sure it’s too uncouth, unrefined and insensitive for Tempo, but I enjoy it.
Scrolled about 30 posts. Looks pretty great to me.
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Scrolled about 30 posts. Looks pretty great to me.
It is glorious.
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My teenage great nephew has MJ #3. He says LeBron is #1, and Kareem is #2.
His argument is LeBron has the stats -- points, rebounds, and assists; while Jabbar changed the game.
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My teenage great nephew has MJ #3. He says LeBron is #1, and Kareem is #2.
His argument is LeBron has the stats -- points, rebounds, and assists; while Jabbar changed the game.
LeBron is bigger and (was) just as athletic as Jordan. Most of his numbers are better. Certainly a better facilitator than Jordan. Better rebounder. LeBron can guard 5 positions. Half of the rosters LeBron carried to the Finals were below .500 teams without him.
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Jordan also never had to beat dynasties like LA, San Antonio, and Golden State.
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Jordan also never had to beat dynasties like LA, San Antonio, and Golden State.
Nope. Just Detroit, L.A. with Magic, Seattle with Payton and Kemp, Utah with Malone and Stockton ...
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Jordan is one of two to average 30 ppg for a career.
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The Bulls had to get past some decent Pistons teams.
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Nope. Just Detroit, L.A. with Magic, Seattle with Payton and Kemp, Utah with Malone and Stockton ...
The early 90s lakers were a shell of their former selves. Seattle and Utah never even won a title. Yeah, I know partly because they played the Bulls. But those teams were not on par with what LeBron played against.
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The early 90s lakers were a shell of their former selves. Seattle and Utah never even won a title. Yeah, I know partly because they played the Bulls. But those teams were not on par with what LeBron played against.
Right. Like the time LeBron played the Celtics with Garnett and Pierce and got his ass handed to him. Complete laydown at the end. The Celtics could have put LeBron's balls on display after that pathetic performance.
LeBron sycophants conveniently forget about the game because he was dogging it for the entire fourth quarter.
Also, just to get out of the East, the Bulls had to get past solid Knicks, Pistons, Magic, and Pacers teams.
The Bulls' competition was better, and it's not even close.
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I can see an argument to be made for LeBron. He’s certainly an all time great. I never felt like he had the je ne sais quoi of some of the Dream Team era guys.
Today’s game is nothing like it was 30 years ago. Maybe better in some ways, in other ways not so much. Man I miss those Bulls-Pistons and Bulls-Knicks series in those days. I don’t feel like there’s anything like that anymore.
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I can see an argument to be made for LeBron. He’s certainly an all time great. I never felt like he had the je ne sais quoi of some of the Dream Team era guys.
Today’s game is nothing like it was 30 years ago. Maybe better in some ways, in other ways not so much. Man I miss those Bulls-Pistons and Bulls-Knicks series in those days. I don’t feel like there’s anything like that anymore.
Very reasonable take. I mostly agree.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mSjIUgrLAQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mSjIUgrLAQ)
LeBron quits vs. Celtics.
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Wilt Chamberlain averaged 20 or more points and rebounds 10 times. The only others to have done it one time: Bob Pettit, Jerry Lucas, and Nate Thurmond. Pettit is considered the first power forward.
Dominique was one of my favorite players to watch. As were Elgin Baylor, David Thompson, Dr. Dunkenstein, and Clyde Drexler. If Dr. J was the predecessor of MJ, Baylor was the predecessor of Dr. J. On Baylor's video now, he looks fairly pedestrian. Back in the day, his ability to hang in the air was considered amazing.