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General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: Custard on March 20, 2022, 03:07:58 PM
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I can’t help but think that probably in 10-20 years we will still be talking about this as the year that could have been.
Illinois came into the season ranked #11.
Kofi Cockburn was preseason B1G player of year and All American. Andre Curbelo was preseason AA by some outlets based on some incredible flashes down the stretch last year.
The losses of two guys who are now doing a pretty good job playing for money were a big concern so we added a bouncy former top 50 athlete in Payne to give some more defensive versatility and a dead eye shooter in Plummer.
Coleman Hawkins impressed all off-season with his development. Austin Hutcherson was healthy and was expected to give us some additional athleticism and shooting on the wing.
Jacob Grandison played for the Finnish team and got a lot of great experience. DaMonte was returning from a season where he shot the three at a very high level.
A lot of us knew being small at guard was going to be a problem unless Goode or Podz could step up.
Then Kofi got suspended.
Trent has a shoulder injury and misses time. Wears a shoulder brace all year.
Curbelo landed on his head and hasn’t been right since. Our preseason AA had two good games all season and was a March no show.
Hutcherson goes down for the season with sports hernia. Guy has absorbed a scholarship for like three years now in exchange for like 30 some minutes total. Feel bad for the kid.
Hawkins shows some flashes early but reverts to bad body language, bad fouls, and losing his cool and mostly rides the pine til late Feb.
Illinois plays something like 9 or 10 different rotations in first 12 games trying to find some kind of spark and chemistry.
Kofi gets a bone bruise then a concussion in first Purdue game and misses two games. Never does look as explosive as he did earlier in season.
BBV and Melendez go down right as Melendez starts becoming an impact player on both ends of the floor and we need depth at the 5 when Kofi is in foul trouble.
Podz and Goode showed signs at times this year but as most non elite freshmen are were often liabilities on D and shaky with the ball and couldn’t supplant the minutes from Williams who despite sucking at offense shut down some really good players all season long.
Payne doesn’t show any progression and is mostly worthless.
Grandison goes down and is not a factor the last three weeks of season after dropping 27 at MSU for a huge road win.
Senior leader Trent Frazier could not hit the broad side of the barn in March posting 11%, 40% , 0%, and 26% shooting in last 4 games. Most of the shots where even close and had no rotation or arc. He had been driving and kicking a lot and that disappeared too. He played his last two games with his left (shooting) eye swelled half shut.
Outside of his four threes against PSU, DaMonte Williams has given us nothing on offense for most of the year.
Half the team gets viral pinkeye the week of the NCAA tourney.
Illinois draws a Chattanooga team with the size and physicality to give us all kinds of problems, and not surprisingly, they do. Their coach instructed them to beat the shit out of us, and they oblige.
After gutting out a supremely ugly win, Illinois gets the much better version of Chattanooga in a Houston squad that is
second in KenPom and a matchup nightmare with an outstanding coach. Illinois hangs tough but gets run off the floor the final five minutes under the recently pressure of Houston’s D.
All season long this team was touted by national media as a title contender because of all the pieces we had. But outside of some stretches early before Curbelo came back, this team always had a lack of cohesion and chemistry and plenty of inconsistent performances. This was always a team that for a lot of reasons played as less than the sum of its parts and the two biggest reasons are the small guards and constant injury issues.
Curbelo was always the Panacea but I think we actually got worse as a unit when he got back. Sure our schedule got tougher, but working someone like that back into a rotation halfway through the season presented plenty of challenges. Especially when you don’t know if you’re going to get Good Belo or Bad Belo. He can play himself right into Good Belo and a big run or play us right out of a game and how do you know which to expect? Total double edged sword.
Same with Plummer. Dude almost had to be on the floor because he can light anyone up at almost any time. But then he gets routinely abused on D and when he’s not hitting he’s an enormous liability. You kinda have to take what you get in the portal and he was certainly a net positive this season, but we cannot be so reliant on midget guards going forward.
All that said, the Illini still won the B1G regular season, had an AA, and gave a team that is frankly better than us 35 mins of competition with two freshmen on the floor for most of that. I had recalibrated my hopes to a S16 appearance after everything had unfolded the way it did, and we still fell short. But props to Houston, their D is going to give Arizona some issues although I still like the Cats to win if Kriisa can return to form.
The recipe for B1G success is not the same as NCAA success. Which is why the B1G continues to struggle in the tourney more often than not and hasn’t won a title. You need height, length, athleticism and bigs that can spread the floor, plus a good draw. Michigan had seen a lot of success the last decade in the tourney by not being like most B1G teams.
If Underwood indeed sticks around (and I’ve said this 50 times probably) I want to see this roster rebuilt with athletic players that can switch on D, attack the basket, draw fouls, spread the floor, be active, etc. even if it costs us some B1G games.
Guys like Melendez and Goode are a great start. Not sure on Podz yet but think he has the tools. Sincere Harris and Ty Rodgers definitely fit this mold. Epps is a big time scorer but undersized and not super athletic much like Trent was coming out of HS. But it’s ok to have a small guard you just can’t have three of them getting huge minutes.
In the post-Kofi era, which I am going to assume started today, I would like to see more modern bigs. Can’t imagine Kofi wants to come back to be beaten and battered for 30 some games again. Teams that rely on guys anything like him are not getting deep in the tourney anymore.
Pretty disappointing ending to a very frustrating season. I don’t have a ton of gripe with the rotations. I mean he threw two freshmen out there today for 20 mins, they played well so he kept them out there, and limited DMW to 20 mins which is what I said the other day I’d like his maximum to be. Not sure why he was back in late but it’s not like we had some magic bullet on the bench other than Bad Belo who obviously did something to piss Brad off earlier. I’ll be surprised if he’s back and honestly I don’t even care anymore.
Flame suit on from everyone who are somehow surprised by this outcome after watching this team struggle to come together or play consistently all season.
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We need to play for the long road instead of short run
If playing freshman early on hurts us in Dec and JAN I'll take that if it helps us come March
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Good write up Custard, hard to argue with any of that to be honest
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Well we’ve got both a B1G title and BTT title so hopefully we start building for sustained March success. I was wrong when I thought this team might be better in March than last year but that was before everything unfolded the way it did.
We got top ten KenPom teams in the second round as a higher seed two years in a row which is mind blowing. Ultimately you gotta beat whoever is in front of you in March. The commonality is our lack of versatility and playing teams with much more versatility and modern construction. I see that the staff notices this by what they’ve said and how they’re recruiting. I hope it pays off.
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The recipe for B1G success is not the same as NCAA success. Which is why the B1G continues to struggle in the tourney more often than not and hasn’t won a title. You need height, length, athleticism and bigs that can spread the floor, plus a good draw. Michigan had seen a lot of success the last decade in the tourney by not being like most B1G teams.
If Underwood indeed sticks around (and I’ve said this 50 times probably) I want to see this roster rebuilt with athletic players that can switch on D, attack the basket, draw fouls, spread the floor, be active, etc. even if it costs us some B1G games.
Now we are getting somewhere....
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Not sure we give him credit for playing the frosh today. Seems like he put them in by default today given how things were going.
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Lottsa cudda, wudda, shuddas. The big'un is playing RJ, Goode, and maybe Podz earlier and more often.
Also if onlys. The yuge one is if only 'belo hadn't suffered a concussion that messed up his timing, court vision, and chemistry with his teammates.
So what's next? If everyone who is eligible returned plus signed recruits, we'd have 15 on scholarship. Will Uberwood crean house to make room for transfers?
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Unless I'm missing something, the grid for next year is currently:
1/CG: Curbelo, Epps
2/3: Melendez, Goode, Podziemski, Hutcherson, Harris
4ish: Hawkins, Rodgers
5ish: BBV, Payne, Lieb, Dainja
I would expect 3 departures from the above if not more. Need to get a good PG-able transfer no matter what. Rodgers and Epps being able to play in the rotation immediately would be big.
I think our target should be upper half B1G and make the tournament next year.
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If everyone who is eligible returned plus signed recruits, we'd have 15 on scholarship. Will Uberwood crean house to make room for transfers?
Grandison announced he's gone, so 14 including Kofi. Kofi and Curbelo both is a low-percentage longshot. No way we don't have transfers out among Hutcherson, Podziemski, Lieb, Payne, and BBV. Underwood has already shown he's willing to be candid with guys he didn't foresee in the rotation.
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Maybe it's not an issue, but I understand Hutcherson had his own trainer in California to rehab from the most recent back injury. Compared to the other guys, he looked sort of fragile last fall and kind of lost on the court. Then he suffered an abdominal injury and was back in California rehabbing.
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A lot of tough luck for sure, but most teams have to deal with issues like that each year.
This is Underwood's 5th year.
He should have already brought in more versatile athletic players for the modern game to compete not only in the Big Ten but nationally.
The Big Ten is simply not competitive athletically. We haven't been really.
We have had very average quickness and speed.
It's like the playoffs in football for the BT.
We have done well in the BT but that is like being one of the taller midgets.
After today there likely will only be 3 at best of the 9 BT teams left.
I also wonder about the assistants here.
Where was the supposed toughness and defensive intensity that Chet was supposed to bring?
We really didn't have anyone make a big jump in development.
In game adjustments were worse this year.
Time to regroup. We have made some progress for sure to be fair, but are not a factor nationally by any stretch.
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Excellent write up, Custard.
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Iowa State won 2 games last year.
On the brink of a S16 with a bunch of spare parts they picked up in off season.
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I can’t help but think that probably in 10-20 years we will still be talking about this as the year that could have been.
Illinois came into the season ranked #11.
Kofi Cockburn was preseason B1G player of year and All American. Andre Curbelo was preseason AA by some outlets based on some incredible flashes down the stretch last year.
The losses of two guys who are now doing a pretty good job playing for money were a big concern so we added a bouncy former top 50 athlete in Payne to give some more defensive versatility and a dead eye shooter in Plummer.
Coleman Hawkins impressed all off-season with his development. Austin Hutcherson was healthy and was expected to give us some additional athleticism and shooting on the wing.
Jacob Grandison played for the Finnish team and got a lot of great experience. DaMonte was returning from a season where he shot the three at a very high level.
A lot of us knew being small at guard was going to be a problem unless Goode or Podz could step up.
Then Kofi got suspended.
Trent has a shoulder injury and misses time. Wears a shoulder brace all year.
Curbelo landed on his head and hasn’t been right since. Our preseason AA had two good games all season and was a March no show.
Hutcherson goes down for the season with sports hernia. Guy has absorbed a scholarship for like three years now in exchange for like 30 some minutes total. Feel bad for the kid.
Hawkins shows some flashes early but reverts to bad body language, bad fouls, and losing his cool and mostly rides the pine til late Feb.
Illinois plays something like 9 or 10 different rotations in first 12 games trying to find some kind of spark and chemistry.
Kofi gets a bone bruise then a concussion in first Purdue game and misses two games. Never does look as explosive as he did earlier in season.
BBV and Melendez go down right as Melendez starts becoming an impact player on both ends of the floor and we need depth at the 5 when Kofi is in foul trouble.
Podz and Goode showed signs at times this year but as most non elite freshmen are were often liabilities on D and shaky with the ball and couldn’t supplant the minutes from Williams who despite sucking at offense shut down some really good players all season long.
Payne doesn’t show any progression and is mostly worthless.
Grandison goes down and is not a factor the last three weeks of season after dropping 27 at MSU for a huge road win.
Senior leader Trent Frazier could not hit the broad side of the barn in March posting 11%, 40% , 0%, and 26% shooting in last 4 games. Most of the shots where even close and had no rotation or arc. He had been driving and kicking a lot and that disappeared too. He played his last two games with his left (shooting) eye swelled half shut.
Outside of his four threes against PSU, DaMonte Williams has given us nothing on offense for most of the year.
Half the team gets viral pinkeye the week of the NCAA tourney.
Illinois draws a Chattanooga team with the size and physicality to give us all kinds of problems, and not surprisingly, they do. Their coach instructed them to beat the shit out of us, and they oblige.
After gutting out a supremely ugly win, Illinois gets the much better version of Chattanooga in a Houston squad that is
second in KenPom and a matchup nightmare with an outstanding coach. Illinois hangs tough but gets run off the floor the final five minutes under the recently pressure of Houston’s D.
All season long this team was touted by national media as a title contender because of all the pieces we had. But outside of some stretches early before Curbelo came back, this team always had a lack of cohesion and chemistry and plenty of inconsistent performances. This was always a team that for a lot of reasons played as less than the sum of its parts and the two biggest reasons are the small guards and constant injury issues.
Curbelo was always the Panacea but I think we actually got worse as a unit when he got back. Sure our schedule got tougher, but working someone like that back into a rotation halfway through the season presented plenty of challenges. Especially when you don’t know if you’re going to get Good Belo or Bad Belo. He can play himself right into Good Belo and a big run or play us right out of a game and how do you know which to expect? Total double edged sword.
Same with Plummer. Dude almost had to be on the floor because he can light anyone up at almost any time. But then he gets routinely abused on D and when he’s not hitting he’s an enormous liability. You kinda have to take what you get in the portal and he was certainly a net positive this season, but we cannot be so reliant on midget guards going forward.
All that said, the Illini still won the B1G regular season, had an AA, and gave a team that is frankly better than us 35 mins of competition with two freshmen on the floor for most of that. I had recalibrated my hopes to a S16 appearance after everything had unfolded the way it did, and we still fell short. But props to Houston, their D is going to give Arizona some issues although I still like the Cats to win if Kriisa can return to form.
The recipe for B1G success is not the same as NCAA success. Which is why the B1G continues to struggle in the tourney more often than not and hasn’t won a title. You need height, length, athleticism and bigs that can spread the floor, plus a good draw. Michigan had seen a lot of success the last decade in the tourney by not being like most B1G teams.
If Underwood indeed sticks around (and I’ve said this 50 times probably) I want to see this roster rebuilt with athletic players that can switch on D, attack the basket, draw fouls, spread the floor, be active, etc. even if it costs us some B1G games.
Guys like Melendez and Goode are a great start. Not sure on Podz yet but think he has the tools. Sincere Harris and Ty Rodgers definitely fit this mold. Epps is a big time scorer but undersized and not super athletic much like Trent was coming out of HS. But it’s ok to have a small guard you just can’t have three of them getting huge minutes.
In the post-Kofi era, which I am going to assume started today, I would like to see more modern bigs. Can’t imagine Kofi wants to come back to be beaten and battered for 30 some games again. Teams that rely on guys anything like him are not getting deep in the tourney anymore.
Pretty disappointing ending to a very frustrating season. I don’t have a ton of gripe with the rotations. I mean he threw two freshmen out there today for 20 mins, they played well so he kept them out there, and limited DMW to 20 mins which is what I said the other day I’d like his maximum to be. Not sure why he was back in late but it’s not like we had some magic bullet on the bench other than Bad Belo who obviously did something to piss Brad off earlier. I’ll be surprised if he’s back and honestly I don’t even care anymore.
Flame suit on from everyone who are somehow surprised by this outcome after watching this team struggle to come together or play consistently all season.
Custard, good assessment of the situation of the team, coaching, what needs to be done, etc.
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Just say it’s poetry. It’s a lot shorter 😂
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Custard, good assessment of the situation of the team, coaching, what needs to be done, etc.
Finally got to this.
You cover everything well, all the way to the last point. We never did establish an identity.
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Wonder if Robb left illinireport.info in his will to Custard, he could definitely write for it for sure lol
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It’ll be a minimum 3+ years to get into the NCAA tourney again.
Kofi is being underestimated. Brad has shown to be a very mediocre coach without him. He coached a team of Frazier, Ayo, Feliz to 20+ losses before Kofi so I don’t see much success without Kofi.
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Appreciate it guys. Sorry for all the typos and shit I typed it up quick on my phone before heading out to watch the other games with some buddies at an open air bar since it was so nice out today. Don’t really feel like fixing them.
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A lot of tough luck for sure, but most teams have to deal with issues like that each year.
This is Underwood's 5th year.
He should have already brought in more versatile athletic players for the modern game to compete not only in the Big Ten but nationally.
The Big Ten is simply not competitive athletically. We haven't been really.
We have had very average quickness and speed.
It's like the playoffs in football for the BT.
We have done well in the BT but that is like being one of the taller midgets.
After today there likely will only be 3 at best of the 9 BT teams left.
I also wonder about the assistants here.
Where was the supposed toughness and defensive intensity that Chet was supposed to bring?
We really didn't have anyone make a big jump in development.
In game adjustments were worse this year.
Time to regroup. We have made some progress for sure to be fair, but are not a factor nationally by any stretch.
I don’t really disagree with anything here other than stating this level of missed games is something every team deals with. Ironically the only other tourney team that missed more games to injury than us is Houston.
(https://i.ibb.co/RNhPGL1/6307-CCCE-C585-4523-9-DA2-E1230295-FAFA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yph5mLD)
And then take into consideration that we had two banged up major rotation guys in Curbelo and Trent who have been on the court but haven’t been able to produce anywhere near what they do when healthy/right. And we’ve been down a veteran starter that can spread the floor all of March.
Yeah all teams have shit to deal with but this team had objectively more than almost everyone else. We still didn’t have the recipe, but it was certainly a factor in the record and performance of this team in the face of the expectations.
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Hawkins/RJ/Belo (?), and Rodgers will be the build for next year. Payne/Dainja will be servicable, BU will switch back to more of a guard oriented team outside/in as far as play without Kofi.
That said, we need creators on offense (RJ-Coleman) and then shooters, then inside play to get more athletic.
Transfer portal should help us after defections (Creans).....let's see what BU can do now. 3 potential All-Americans, 2 legit high profile 5th yr guards gone. Expectations will be low for sure.
BU better hope he can create an offense with players who can score as well as hopefully shoot. The end of the season proved 3 shooting alone will only take you so far. Wisconsin learned that lessson also today.
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Should have a lot of playing time to sell on a recently higher profile program. Hope we can make some waves.
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The recipe for B1G success is not the same as NCAA success. Which is why the B1G continues to struggle in the tourney more often than not and hasn’t won a title. You need height, length, athleticism and bigs that can spread the floor, plus a good draw. Michigan had seen a lot of success the last decade in the tourney by not being like most B1G teams.
I liked your assessment Custard, especially the part above. I don't like saying it but, the Big 12 seems to be way ahead of the BIG in embracing this strategy. Here's hoping that our incoming talent has the right athletes to spread the floor and play multiple positions. Was thinking earlier today back to when BU first arrived and played that pressure ball he'd used at prior stops. Maybe it was our lack of talent or BIG norms/refs that made it flop. Actually, it was probably both. I'd like to see him try that approach again with a roster built to do it well. Also, please Lord, can you send us a point guard?