IlliniHQ 2

General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 09:04:59 AM

Title: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 09:04:59 AM
Anywhere to stream the game tonight?
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 09:08:49 AM
Anywhere to stream the game tonight?
BTN+ has it.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 09:10:59 AM
BTN+ has it.

Ok cool, thanks.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: fucking on November 26, 2021, 09:36:46 AM
https://youtu.be/0yfb73FTeBA
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: frankiew on November 26, 2021, 02:55:17 PM
they should have made this a 2pm game
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 26, 2021, 05:25:57 PM
Is this like an online school we are playing?
Jfc. Who scheduled this shit?
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 26, 2021, 05:35:17 PM
Arizona beat them by nearly 60 points.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 05:39:23 PM
Is this like an online school we are playing?
Jfc. Who scheduled this shit?
Arizona scheduled them also. Knocked the tar out of them.
They get to play Texas too.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 26, 2021, 05:56:48 PM
Do people actually have to pay to get in to see this bullshit?
Or is it free for all local school children and nursing homes?
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Jrock74 on November 26, 2021, 05:58:00 PM
We are without Belo and Frazier. Belo is back in concussion protocol.  This will likely be an ugly game.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: ILLove1997 on November 26, 2021, 06:00:46 PM
We are without Belo and Frazier. Belo is back in concussion protocol.  This will likely be an ugly game.

without belo we might look better
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 07:01:10 PM
No Grandison either. Out sick.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 07:14:58 PM
Down by 10 lol.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Jrock74 on November 26, 2021, 07:16:18 PM
No guards
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Jrock74 on November 26, 2021, 07:19:24 PM
We phucked
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 07:22:33 PM
I don't care how many guys are out. This will be the quite the bad loss if we don't turn it around.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: jayboek on November 26, 2021, 07:24:45 PM
Rio Grande Valley too tough.  😆  The most overhyped illinois b ball team I've ever  seen.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: illinicalvin on November 26, 2021, 07:26:46 PM
I'm not paying for their bullshit, but are we seriously down 10?

And can we actually shitcan Underwood if they lose this game?
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 07:31:01 PM
I seriously can’t believe BTN+ is a paid subscription. It’s a terrible quality service.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Reacher on November 26, 2021, 07:31:21 PM
without belo we might look better

There it is! Not even out of November yet! We’ll we better when Belo exits the program! 😂
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 07:31:58 PM
There it is! Not even out of November yet! We’ll we better when Belo exits the program! 😂

He was joking…
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Reacher on November 26, 2021, 07:33:11 PM
He was joking…

Halfway
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Reacher on November 26, 2021, 07:34:16 PM
Who can tell me what a UTRGV is?
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 07:35:42 PM
I'm not paying for their bullshit, but are we seriously down 10?

And can we actually shitcan Underwood if they lose this game?

Cut it to 3. Upset bid still alive!
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 07:37:08 PM
Plummer is an assassin. He needs to shoot/attempt 10 threes a game by himself.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 07:40:09 PM
Shooting 52%.
7 turnovers.
Plummer, Cockburn and Hawkins with all of our points
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 07:41:54 PM
Who can tell me what a UTRGV is?
I'll go out on a limb and say it's a branch of the University of Texas, and located in the Rio Grande Valley.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: illinicalvin on November 26, 2021, 07:50:17 PM
9 turnovers in the 1st half against a super-low major looking for a paycheck.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 07:54:03 PM
37 points allowed and 9 turnovers in a half against Ariana Grande University.

Outfuckingstanding.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 07:56:34 PM
Geez. You guys are tough to please. We're shooting 59% against the Vaqueros.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 08:01:01 PM
Only 3 people have scored for us. Four really, but Melendez was right before half. Need to find some scorers in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: jayboek on November 26, 2021, 08:02:26 PM
Only 3 people have scored for us. Four really, but Melendez was right before half. Need to find some scorers in the 2nd half.
😆...good luck finding that.  Not too many scorers on this team in general.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 08:03:10 PM
UTRGV has a dude named Ricky Nelson😂🤣 how fitting
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 08:11:50 PM
Have we stopped Grande at all this half? They are scoring at will.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 08:16:00 PM
Have we stopped Grande at all this half? They are scoring at will.

Nope. 7-7 this half so far.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 26, 2021, 08:21:44 PM
This Illinois team is trash.  Much respect to Ayo for carrying this loser of a head coach.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 08:22:40 PM
Only 3 people have scored for us. Four really, but Melendez was right before half. Need to find some scorers in the 2nd half.
DaMonte chips in with a bucket to go with 7 assists.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 26, 2021, 08:24:59 PM
Illinois is shooting 57.5% and are losing with 12 minutes to go.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: illinicalvin on November 26, 2021, 08:30:12 PM
Illinois is shooting 57.5% and are losing with 12 minutes to go.
To UTRGV.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 08:30:18 PM
Kofi with 30, and we're losing.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 08:30:37 PM
Fun fact: Arizona beat this same Grande team by 54.

We got Zona coming up soon. They'll curb stomp us if we give forth this type of defensive effort.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 08:31:25 PM
54 points for Kofi and Plummer. 🤣
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 08:34:29 PM
Leading scorer outside of Kofi and Plummer is Hawkins...with 6.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 08:37:11 PM
18 assists on 26 buckets.
And we're only down 1.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: illinicalvin on November 26, 2021, 08:41:19 PM
We appear to have about 4 real players and a bunch of spare parts.

We are going to get fisted in the B1G playing like this.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 08:43:20 PM
We appear to have about 4 real players and a bunch of spare parts.

We are going to get fisted in the B1G playing like this.

Our floor spacing and ball reversal on offense is really bad to nonexistent. Need to get more aggressive on that end.

Play defense like tonight and you are correct.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 26, 2021, 08:43:27 PM
Just got in from dinner with relatives.

What the fuck is going on here???

How are we losing to an online alphabet school from the middle of the Rio Grande?
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: frankiew on November 26, 2021, 08:43:33 PM
i got some tickets to sell
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 08:44:20 PM
Even if we pull this out, we should be removed from the Top 25 just for making these guys look like the 95-96 Bulls. It would be shameful to still be ranked after this performance.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 08:46:31 PM
Austin Hutcherson ain’t done shit. So much for that hype.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: illinicalvin on November 26, 2021, 08:54:00 PM
Our floor spacing and ball reversal on offense is really bad to nonexistent. Need to get more aggressive on that end.

Play defense like tonight and you are correct.
I can't believe none of the 2/3 options aside from Plummer wanted to step up and at least try to be a scorer.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 26, 2021, 08:55:48 PM
I can't believe none of the 2/3 options aside from Plummer wanted to step up and at least try to be a scorer.

Prefect opportunity for someone. You’d think that’s what kids dream of- scoring. They all scared of Underwood if they miss or what?!
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 08:59:07 PM
UTRGV has 4 players with 30+ minutes. Played 7.
We've played 10.
All tied up.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 09:02:10 PM
UTRGV has put up 80 before.
Against Northern Arizona and Paul Quinn College.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: ILLove1997 on November 26, 2021, 09:07:00 PM
There it is! Not even out of November yet! We’ll we better when Belo exits the program! 😂

its a meme
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 26, 2021, 09:08:16 PM
So we need Kofi to score 40 points just to nudge past a team the quality of Eastern Illinois
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 26, 2021, 09:13:37 PM
Kofi with 38, a double double, and another assist.
Team shot 62% and was in a nail biter.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 26, 2021, 09:15:28 PM
This is def the last game we will ever be favored by 26 points in the Underwood era.

I listened to Werner all off season talk about how great Omar Payne is on defense. Yeah, not the case.  Our team defense is bad even with Kofi/Payne in the lane
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: ILLove1997 on November 26, 2021, 09:17:15 PM
So we need Kofi to score 40 points just to nudge past a team the quality of Eastern Illinois

remember when John Groce & Co. got blown the fuck out by eastern?  lol
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 26, 2021, 09:18:46 PM
We still have a shit load of cleaning up to do. Giving up 85 points at home to a bottomfeeder WAC program is unacceptable no matter how many guys were out.

Remove us from the Top 25 ASAP. We should not be ranked after such a pitiful defensive showing.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 26, 2021, 09:26:42 PM
This is def the last game we will ever be favored by 26 points in the Underwood era.

I listened to Werner all off season talk about how great Omar Payne is on defense. Yeah, not the case.  Our team defense is bad even with Kofi/Payne in the lane

I did not see this game. Kofi looked terrible on defense vs KSU in my opinion.
Plays very straight up, and even slower feet and lateral movement than last year.

Payne moves better, gets off the floor better, but he is nothing special though.

Our defense is simply horrendous. It has been the whole time under Hulka except for second half of 19/20 season, and about a six weeks at end last year.
People keep forgetting that Oklahoma State was like 155th in country in defense when we had the bright idea to hire this guy. 
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 26, 2021, 09:27:02 PM
The fact Kofi had to play 38 minutes against a team of this quality is not a good omen for the season.

Before , I thought there was no chance Mizzou could win this year.  After tonight, that’s a toss up bc they will defend and Illinois can’t.

Arizona is a loss.
Notre Dame probably a loss based on coaching alone.

This is now 3 awful games (Cincy, Marquette, tonight) and 1 at best average game vs K State who sucks
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Gokuwearsorange/blue on November 26, 2021, 09:37:34 PM
Underwood's refusal to go to a zone defense was comical and concerning at the same time.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 26, 2021, 09:44:43 PM
Underwood's refusal to go to a zone defense was comical and concerning at the same time.

He is an idiot. He should have vs Loyola in biggest meltdown of the year in tourney.
Oregon State announced it ahead of time and handled them easily.
 
We could not stay in front of anyone last year, and it is worse this year.
Trent and DaMonte are totally over rated as on ball defenders.
We have no help defense by bigs when playing man. They do not play basic man/ ball/ basket D.  Kofi wears cement shoes.
Play zone, stop the drive, pack the 3 point line and Kofi stays in paint.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Custard on November 26, 2021, 10:03:11 PM
Didn’t watch this but followed it idly on my Score app while the kids swam.

I fully expected a lackluster performance missing three starters (and the two primary ball handlers) but didn’t expect to be in a dogfight with whoever this team was.

Guess it’s just good it wasn’t an L. Hopefully the guys who are out get healthy. Like actually healthy, not just “physically able to play in a game” healthy.

Our non conference slate is pretty much FUBAR because it certainly doesn’t look like Curbelo or Trent are going to be of any help any time soon.

If Hutch was anywhere near 100% I don’t think Underwoof would have waited until the wheels had fallen completely off against Cincy before bringing him in.

Looking like the best case scenario is we reach full health mid December and maybe get a rotation and some chemistry figured out by mid January. There’s enough talent on this team to be very formidable by March but it’s not going to be pretty getting there.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Gokuwearsorange/blue on November 27, 2021, 08:35:04 AM
He is an idiot. He should have vs Loyola in biggest meltdown of the year in tourney.
Oregon State announced it ahead of time and handled them easily.
 
We could not stay in front of anyone last year, and it is worse this year.
Trent and DaMonte are totally over rated as on ball defenders.
We have no help defense by bigs when playing man. They do not play basic man/ ball/ basket D.  Kofi wears cement shoes.
Play zone, stop the drive, pack the 3 point line and Kofi stays in paint.

I agree with most of that.

I believe coming out of an opposing team's timeout with a 1-3-1, 3-2, 1-2-2 or 2-3, for a possession or two, would make a difference.

A lot of opposing coaches would be drawing up an offensive play specifically for our man-to-man defense and would be caught off guard by it.



 

Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 27, 2021, 08:54:09 AM
Learn to play a zone to protect Kofi from foul trouble.
Show video of how the offense performed when we play some defense.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 27, 2021, 10:32:54 AM
Well, the injuries are not helping develop a rotation or anything that resembles an offense or defense. But this team looks like an AAU team thrown together for a weekend tourney. That is on staff.

Custard is right. It could take weeks.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: ILLove1997 on November 27, 2021, 11:00:03 AM
Well, the injuries are not helping develop a rotation or anything that resembles an offense or defense. But this team looks like an AAU team thrown together for a weekend tourney. That is on staff.

Custard is right. It could take weeks.

WTF have they been doing so far this year because it sure looks like they haven't practiced... also every kids attitude looks pretty mellow out there when they are playing, no desire or care about defense... yeah I know its early in the year but come on this is supposed to be a part of the team culture by now
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Reacher on November 27, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Bumpy start, in no small part due to injuries and Kofi’s suspension. Not going to panic or criticize too heavily unless they have another bad loss or two.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 27, 2021, 01:24:44 PM
WTF have they been doing so far this year because it sure looks like they haven't practiced... also every kids attitude looks pretty mellow out there when they are playing, no desire or care about defense... yeah I know its early in the year but come on this is supposed to be a part of the team culture by now


I agree.  And Chet was supposed to be Mr. Tough guy.

Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Custard on November 27, 2021, 02:06:44 PM
This last game doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the Cincinnati game. We were relatively healthy-ish I thought for the Cincy game and came out and punched them in the mouth. They made some adjustments, started mugging Kofi, and took our lunch money the rest of the game. That’s much more alarming than a game where three starters including two primary ball handlers are out entirely and other guys have to fill unfamiliar roles.

And if we’ve learned anything over the last 5-10 years it is that the gap between P5 schools and some of these directional schools has narrowed tremendously. You can’t just expect to throw in your guys who are 8-12 on the depth chart out there and expect to roll over another team’s primary rotation.

With the rise of the constant travel ball there are more players playing a lot more competitive basketball than the old days where it was just school ball and the playground. And the bigger programs only have so many cumulative rides to give out each year.

The small schools have less roster turnover and more continuity because they aren’t losing guys to the pros. Illinois played RGV without 5 of the 6 or 7 guys (Ayo, GB, Jake, TF, AC) who played the most minutes last season.

And I can’t stress the lack of ball handlers right now enough. We saw firsthand for years how impotent teams with decent wings and post players could look without a quality PG.

Obviously Plummer is getting comfortable which is huge but imo we are really behind the 8 ball for awhile.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: fucking on November 27, 2021, 02:26:09 PM
Belo hasn't been healthy,  yet. Including the Bearcats game.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Custard on November 27, 2021, 02:49:22 PM
My “relatively healthy-ish” was a nod to Trent and Belo’s lingering issues.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 04:26:48 PM
I did not see this game. Kofi looked terrible on defense vs KSU in my opinion.
Plays very straight up, and even slower feet and lateral movement than last year.

Payne moves better, gets off the floor better, but he is nothing special though.

Our defense is simply horrendous. It has been the whole time under Hulka except for second half of 19/20 season, and about a six weeks at end last year.
People keep forgetting that Oklahoma State was like 155th in country in defense when we had the bright idea to hire this guy.

I love how our fans turn on the coach who brought our program back to relevance literally as soon as there’s a hint of trouble.  Unreal.

Hiring the guy wasn’t THAT bad of an idea.  The improvement in the program has been nothing short of enormous.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 27, 2021, 04:35:23 PM
I love how our fans turn on the coach who brought our program back to relevance literally as soon as there’s a hint of trouble.  Unreal.

Hiring the guy wasn’t THAT bad of an idea.  The improvement in the program has been nothing short of enormous.

How quickly people forget Weber and Groce. What Underwood has done for this program in such a short time is pretty remarkable honestly. Completely turned the trajectory around.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 27, 2021, 04:42:31 PM
I love how our fans turn on the coach who brought our program back to relevance literally as soon as there’s a hint of trouble.  Unreal.

Hiring the guy wasn’t THAT bad of an idea.  The improvement in the program has been nothing short of enormous.

I've been pissed at him since the Loyola game but yeah I'm nowhere near boarding the "Fire Underwood" bus yet.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 04:45:39 PM
I've been pissed at him since the Loyola game but yeah I'm nowhere near boarding the "Fire Underwood" bus yet.

It seems like a lot of our fans forgot that being disappointed by an NCAA tournament upset isn’t really a thing we’ve had to worry about for like 10-15 years.  I wouldn’t trade back.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Custard on November 27, 2021, 06:03:10 PM
KenPom doesn’t hate our D as much as our fans, that’s for sure. We aren’t doing very well in the Luck category this year, though.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: The_Truth on November 27, 2021, 06:14:24 PM
How quickly people forget Weber and Groce. What Underwood has done for this program in such a short time is pretty remarkable honestly. Completely turned the trajectory around.

This is like comparing oranges to oranges…

Weber wins with other guys players, can’t recruit…

Groce wins with other guys players, can’t recruit…

Underwood…??? I guess you could say he won a few with his players, but can’t recruit either…Whats he got? 1 tourney win in 4 years…
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 27, 2021, 06:55:13 PM
How quickly people forget Weber and Groce. What Underwood has done for this program in such a short time is pretty remarkable honestly. Completely turned the trajectory around.

Antigua getting Kofi changed the trajectory.  Take Kofi away from this program, then what do you got? 

It seems like a lot of our fans forgot that being disappointed by an NCAA tournament upset isn’t really a thing we’ve had to worry about for like 10-15 years.  I wouldn’t trade back.

See Underwood's 1st two years here without Kofi. That's what it's going to be like when Kofi is gone.

Underwood is nothing but a roll the ball out system coach. That works with elite talent and elite athletes. Something Antigua was able to recruit for him.  He's now gone.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Reacher on November 27, 2021, 07:14:15 PM
I love how our fans turn on the coach who brought our program back to relevance literally as soon as there’s a hint of trouble.  Unreal.

Hiring the guy wasn’t THAT bad of an idea.  The improvement in the program has been nothing short of enormous.

I don’t “like” Underwood, but even I would agree with this. He’s gotten to a point I didn’t really see him getting to, and probably quicker than I would have imagined, even I was thinking relatively creatively. He’s earned some patience and benefit of the doubt IMO.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 27, 2021, 07:21:31 PM
This is like comparing oranges to oranges…

Weber wins with other guys players, can’t recruit…

Groce wins with other guys players, can’t recruit…

Underwood…??? I guess you could say he won a few with his players, but can’t recruit either…Whats he got? 1 tourney win in 4 years…

You’re an idiot.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Judge Judy on November 27, 2021, 07:21:49 PM
Antigua getting Kofi changed the trajectory.  Take Kofi away from this program, then what do you got? 

See Underwood's 1st two years here without Kofi. That's what it's going to be like when Kofi is gone.

Underwood is nothing but a roll the ball out system coach. That works with elite talent and elite athletes. Something Antigua was able to recruit for him.  He's now gone.

And still an idiot.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Custard on November 27, 2021, 07:40:49 PM
The_Truth just doesn’t write the way Truth writes. And the post above has zero intellectual honesty in it. There’s nothing similar to Groce/Weber and Underwood’s trajectories other than none of them won a title.

Dominic posts the way Truth posts, but Truth is usually fairly intellectually honest, which is precisely why he got so many peoples’ goats.

This Dominic was intellectually dishonest in the post about Kofi. Brad hired both of the guys that got the players that were primarily responsible for us turning the corner…and almost all the other players that helped us turn the corner.

Antigua and Chin left, Brad took his time selecting replacements, and then put together a top 20 recruiting class in a few months, which they’ll certainly add to in the spring.

Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Lkdog on November 27, 2021, 09:59:29 PM
I love how our fans turn on the coach who brought our program back to relevance literally as soon as there’s a hint of trouble.  Unreal.

Hiring the guy wasn’t THAT bad of an idea.  The improvement in the program has been nothing short of enormous.

Not turning on him. I have actually never been a big enough fan of him to do so. I do give him credit where it is due. His culture development in 19/20 season was very good. That was our best team since 2004/05 IMO. A tough team mentally and pretty effective on both sides of ball.
But, yeah, his unwillingness or inability to make in game adjustments is an obvious problem.

An Ok hire overall. Nothing more, nothing less.



Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 10:35:50 PM
A hire that took us from a perennial non tournament team to at this point three years in a row with likely tournament quality teams.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: spark mandrill on November 27, 2021, 10:39:41 PM
I don’t “like” Underwood, but even I would agree with this. He’s gotten to a point I didn’t really see him getting to, and probably quicker than I would have imagined, even I was thinking relatively creatively. He’s earned some patience and benefit of the doubt IMO.

I think it’s totally fair not to like the dude and I think it’s fair to some degree to criticize him for certain in-game decisions.  But the people here acting like he should be anywhere near the hot seat are crazy.  At this point we’d have to miss the tournament this year and next year to even consider firing him in that span, IMO.  We’re recruiting pretty well too, not elite but we’re stacking solid classes and I think that’s how you build a program.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 28, 2021, 12:02:14 AM
A hire that took us from a perennial non tournament team to at this point three years in a row with likely tournament quality teams.

A tourney team is an extremely low bar.

Again, just because Groce sucked, doesn’t mean Underwood is good.

Just because Weber sucked at the end of his tenure, never meant Groce was good
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 28, 2021, 12:08:06 AM
At this point we’d have to miss the tournament this year and next year to even consider firing him in that span, IMO. 

Remove Kofi and that’s the exact outlook.  With Kofi, could still happen.

But really with the transfer portal and college free agency, Underwood is a GM at this point tasked to build a different competitive team year to year.  It’s too early to say how he will do. 

I feel like Underwood is looked at like he’s some Theo Epstein of the Cubs right now and he should not have that type of respect
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Custard on November 28, 2021, 12:41:58 AM
Remove Kofi and that’s the exact outlook.  With Kofi, could still happen.

But really with the transfer portal and college free agency, Underwood is a GM at this point tasked to build a different competitive team year to year.  It’s too early to say how he will do. 

I feel like Underwood is looked at like he’s some Theo Epstein of the Cubs right now and he should not have that type of respect

This take is fucking idiotic. The very fact that Kofi is here has made it borderline impossible to get someone anywhere near his caliber to replace him. No elite big wanted to come here knowing he’s going to sit behind Kofi indefinitely. We were still in late on several immediate impact bigs that went elsewhere while he hemmed and hawed around last spring and summer. The same shit will likely happen after this season. Although if the season plays out the way it’s currently looking, he may leave regardless of whatever money he’s making at UI.

Literally no one thinks this is a Theo Epstein-esque situation. That’s a shitty straw man, even by your standards. Brad Underwood elevated this program to a once-every-15-years-if-we-are-lucky high in his first four years. That’s the objective truth.

Is there room for improvement? Of course.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Reacher on November 28, 2021, 04:48:54 AM
I think it’s totally fair not to like the dude and I think it’s fair to some degree to criticize him for certain in-game decisions.  But the people here acting like he should be anywhere near the hot seat are crazy.  At this point we’d have to miss the tournament this year and next year to even consider firing him in that span, IMO.  We’re recruiting pretty well too, not elite but we’re stacking solid classes and I think that’s how you build a program.

Agreed. If he were recruiting like 2006 Bruce Weber, I’d still be shouting about red flags. His incoming recruits look to be high major/tournament quality, and there’s a good chance he’ll add to it.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Reacher on November 28, 2021, 04:50:16 AM
This take is fucking idiotic. The very fact that Kofi is here has made it borderline impossible to get someone anywhere near his caliber to replace him. No elite big wanted to come here knowing he’s going to sit behind Kofi indefinitely. We were still in late on several immediate impact bigs that went elsewhere while he hemmed and hawed around last spring and summer. The same shit will likely happen after this season. Although if the season plays out the way it’s currently looking, he may leave regardless of whatever money he’s making at UI.

Literally no one thinks this is a Theo Epstein-esque situation. That’s a shitty straw man, even by your standards. Brad Underwood elevated this program to a once-every-15-years-if-we-are-lucky high in his first four years. That’s the objective truth.

Is there room for improvement? Of course.
.

Let us not forget the day I agreed with Custard.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: The_Truth on November 28, 2021, 07:22:13 AM
The_Truth just doesn’t write the way Truth writes. And the post above has zero intellectual honesty in it. There’s nothing similar to Groce/Weber and Underwood’s trajectories other than none of them won a title.

Dominic posts the way Truth posts, but Truth is usually fairly intellectually honest, which is precisely why he got so many peoples’ goats.

This Dominic was intellectually dishonest in the post about Kofi. Brad hired both of the guys that got the players that were primarily responsible for us turning the corner…and almost all the other players that helped us turn the corner.

Antigua and Chin left, Brad took his time selecting replacements, and then put together a top 20 recruiting class in a few months, which they’ll certainly add to in the spring.

The truth is a good coach with a stacked team wouldn’t have lost to the University of Chicago institute for the blind…

Now back to Weber lover and his custard…
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Custard on November 28, 2021, 08:48:19 AM
The truth is a good coach with a stacked team wouldn’t have lost to the University of Chicago institute for the blind…

Now back to Weber lover and his custard…

I mean, you do realize Loyola was top 20 AP, top 10 KenPom, and #1 KenPom defense coming into the game, right? They were one the most underseeded teams in the history of the tournament. The only thing missing was a big name. We can pretend they were the Little Sisters of The Poor, but there we go being intellectually dishonest again.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: ThePAMan on November 28, 2021, 08:51:13 AM
I mean, you do realize Loyola was top 20 AP, top 10 KenPom, and #1 KenPom defense coming into the game, right? They were one the most underseeded teams in the history of the tournament. The only thing missing was a big name. We can pretend they were the Little Sisters of The Poor, but there we go being intellectually dishonest again.

And they got completely demolished after they
completely demolished Illinois.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Custard on November 28, 2021, 09:12:08 AM
And they got completely demolished after they
completely demolished Illinois.

No, they actually didn’t, but ok.

Oregon St had only 3 points almost 10 mins into the game.

It was a 4 point game with 1:10 left before OSU hit a contested three to put it away.

And OSU was a solid team in March. They won the PAC tourney, and the PAC showed really well in the NCAA tourney. They made it to the round of eight by beating dark horse #11 Oklahoma State, #17 Loyola, and #27 Tennessee. They obviously weren’t trash.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: ThePAMan on November 28, 2021, 09:23:41 AM
No, they actually didn’t, but ok.

Oregon St had only 3 points almost 10 mins into the game.

It was a 4 point game with 1:10 left before OSU hit a contested three to put it away.

And OSU was a solid team in March. They won the PAC tourney, and the PAC showed really well in the NCAA tourney. They made it to the round of eight by beating dark horse #11 Oklahoma State, #17 Loyola, and #27 Tennessee. They obviously weren’t trash.

They were up double digits in the 2d half.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: ThePAMan on November 28, 2021, 09:24:21 AM
But it is a moot point anyway. Underachiever isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: The_Truth on November 28, 2021, 12:19:09 PM
I mean, you do realize Loyola was top 20 AP, top 10 KenPom, and #1 KenPom defense coming into the game, right? They were one the most underseeded teams in the history of the tournament. The only thing missing was a big name. We can pretend they were the Little Sisters of The Poor, but there we go being intellectually dishonest again.

You’re right…I’m being so intellectually dishonest that an unranked perennial PAC 12 bottom feeder beat that same Kenpom behemoth convincingly in the next round…

Is Underwood better than groce/Weber? Sure…but again that’s comparing cowdung to more cowdung…he ain’t no Bill Self…

The way we lost to Marquette and then Cincy and then taking Texas High School to the wire is an embarrassment period no matter how many different ways you spin your love for coach Underwhelm…

Now back to Custard and his illogical thinking…
Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: Dominic on November 28, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
Brad Underwood elevated this program to a once-every-15-years-if-we-are-lucky high in his first four years. That’s the objective truth.


But again, you have to break down exactly what it took to do that. Kofi.  That’s the difference.  Is getting another Kofi repeatable? For Underwood, I don’t think it is. I don’t think it’s Underwood system that created a #1 seed.  It was Kofi.

Purdue fans have confidence in Matt Painter that he can churn talent over and over again and still be a good team bc he has a system in place and has has plenty of good teams cycle thru from Hummell/Moore/Johnson to Swanigan to Carson Edwards and now his current group.

I don’t think anyone should be confident in Underwood.  Right now, he’s similar to Frank Martin at South Carolina, except Frank got to the Final 4 and Underwood has won 1 ncaa game in 4 years.

Title: Re: UT Rio Grande
Post by: illiniray on November 28, 2021, 02:28:22 PM
Interesting thing about Painter is he mostly wins with fair to middling recruiting. One top 10 (2007) and one top 25 (2012) class in 17 years.

Brad Underwood will have 4 top 25 classes in 6 years. Kofi's class  was not one of them. Starting with 2017: 30 25 69 16 23 18

Painter starting with 2006: 55 5 291 287 37 92 16 28 33 37 108 34 49 58 36 38 26