IlliniHQ 2
General Category => The Deuce => Topic started by: murphstahoe on March 08, 2020, 09:37:05 PM
-
SAD!
-
-1 for low effort
-
-1 for low effort
Someone is guilty of Trump Derangement Syndrome Derangement Syndrome!!!
-
The Corona virus is correcting it back to normal P/E ratios. Pretty much what happened was corporations used tax cuts to buy back their own stock; which inflated the value.
https://www.gurufocus.com/news/1062412/are-there-any-markets-that-are-not-overvalued
Had a Trumpy tell me GDP growth was averaging over 3% under Trump. Said Trump waved his magic wand and manufacturing jobs had returned to the rust-belt. I showed him some facts and he called me a liar. That is the real Trump derangement.
GDP growth has been 2.4%, 2.9% and 2.3% in 2017, 2018 and 2019, respectively, under Trump, for an average growth rate of 2.5%
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2020/02/21/trumps-gdp-growth-rate-is-only-03-greater-than-obamas/#63403ebd6f4b
-
The Corona virus is correcting it back to normal P/E ratios. Pretty much what happened was corporations used tax cuts to buy back their own stock; which inflated the value.
Had a Trumpy tell me GDP growth was averaging over 3% under Trump. Said Trump waved his magic wand and manufacturing jobs had returned to the rust-belt. I showed him some facts and he called me a liar. That is the real Trump derangement.
The Price is going down, but... the E is going to take a pretty freaking bad hit too. What's the economic impact of basically cancelling the NCAA's? And that's probably pretty small compared to cancelling Facebook, Apple, and Google developer conferences.
-
The Corona virus is correcting it back to normal P/E ratios. Pretty much what happened was corporations used tax cuts to buy back their own stock; which inflated the value.
Had a Trumpy tell me GDP growth was averaging over 3% under Trump. Said Trump waved his magic wand and manufacturing jobs had returned to the rust-belt. I showed him some facts and he called me a liar. That is the real Trump derangement.
The Price is going down, but... the E is going to take a pretty freaking bad hit too. What's the economic impact of basically cancelling the NCAA's? And that's probably pretty small compared to cancelling Facebook, Apple, and Google developer conferences.
The P/E ratios were 90% overvalued three weeks ago. Stocks dropped before earnings dropped.
Now, earnings will drop and the fucked up response to the coronavirus did not help. Apparently, Obama did not have any test kits ready. :)
-
(https://i.ibb.co/4JVrff4/0216039-F-1519-481-B-87-B5-6-C3676-BC81-D5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V3q4NNM)
-
Let's add another button: Elect a competent person to run the gov't.
-
Let's add another button: Elect a competent person to run the gov't.
That’s the obvious response but our peers, by current rules, elected Trump. And the Democrats—who want to run health care—have been playing bumper cars and lining up behind a guy that’s likely to get steamrolled. 🤷🏻♂️
-
(https://i.ibb.co/4JVrff4/0216039-F-1519-481-B-87-B5-6-C3676-BC81-D5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V3q4NNM)
They're both true.
You could make the same cartoon with "private sector" replacing the word "government" to disprove capitalism.
-
Can I see a show of hands for who would rather have Trump running healthcare than the private sector?
-
Can I see a show of hands for who would rather have Trump running healthcare than the private sector?
Right now, I’d settle for a competent and consistent response to the coronavirus outbreak from Trump.
-
Can I see a show of hands for who would rather have Trump running healthcare than the private sector?
Right now, I’d settle for a competent and consistent response to the coronavirus outbreak from Trump.
I’ve often read that ones expectations drive ones anger and frustration. If that’s true, then expecting Donald Trump to act competent and consistent has to be some form of sick masochism. Same goes for nichi. What are you guys doing with your lives? 🤔😂🤔
-
Can I see a show of hands for who would rather have Trump running healthcare than the private sector?
The equivalent of the "Illinois never should have fired Bruce Weber" argument, everybody!
-
Can I see a show of hands for who would rather have Trump running healthcare than the private sector?
Right now, I’d settle for a competent and consistent response to the coronavirus outbreak from Trump.
I’ve often read that ones expectations drive ones anger and frustration. If that’s true, then expecting Donald Trump to act competent and consistent has to be some form of sick masochism. Same goes for nichi. What are you guys doing with your lives? 🤔😂🤔
Who is expecting Trump to act in competent and consistent manner? What planet have you been living on? Over 90% of Republicans still approve of the blithering idiot. My Trumpist friends actually believe there is a COVID-19 hoax to hurt Trump. I am not making it up.
Meanwhile: Federal Reserve Announces Unprecedented $1.5 Trillion in Loans to Wall Street
https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/federal-reserve-announces-unprecedented-1-5-trillion-in-loans-to-wall-street-today-and-tomorrow/
-
Can I see a show of hands for who would rather have Trump running healthcare than the private sector?
Do you prefer prefer a socialist dictatorship or predatory capitalism? Because those are obviously the only possible choices.
-
Can I see a show of hands for who would rather have Trump running healthcare than the private sector?
Right now, I’d settle for a competent and consistent response to the coronavirus outbreak from Trump.
I’ve often read that ones expectations drive ones anger and frustration. If that’s true, then expecting Donald Trump to act competent and consistent has to be some form of sick masochism. Same goes for nichi. What are you guys doing with your lives? 🤔😂🤔
What am I doing with my life? Right now, I'm following some of the "social distancing" steps for the coronavirus outbreak recommended by public health officials. My wife is in one of the "high risk" categories" for the illness. It's not end of the world stuff and we're adjusting just fine.
So yes, I do expect some competence and consistency from Trump and his administration in dealing with a pandemic. Many lives are at risk across the country.
And guess what? My sick, masochistic expectations have been answered. Trump recently declared a national emergency that freed up federal resources to combat the virus. He also green-lighted Steven Mnuchin to negotiate a coronavirus relief package with Nancy Pelosi that passed the House of Representatives late last night.
Now it sounds like you're a book-learning kind of guy. I know I won't be able to sneak anything passed you when it comes to understanding complicated psychological things like expectations, frustration and anger. So I want to reassure you that I'm not expecting 100% effort from Trump in dealing with the coronavirus outbreak.
I know he'll continue to deny, distract and act dumb at times. But at least we've moved on from the "we have it totally under control" and "it's going to be just fine" phase.
-
So yes, I do expect some competence and consistency from Trump and his administration in dealing with a pandemic. Many lives are at risk across the country.
And guess what? My sick, masochistic expectations have been answered. Trump recently declared a national emergency that freed up federal resources to combat the virus. He also green-lighted Steven Mnuchin to negotiate a coronavirus relief package with Nancy Pelosi that passed the House of Representatives late last night.
Now it sounds like you're a book-learning kind of guy. I know I won't be able to sneak anything passed you when it comes to understanding complicated psychological things like expectations, frustration and anger. So I want to reassure you that I'm not expecting 100% effort from Trump in dealing with the coronavirus outbreak.
I know he'll continue to deny, distract and act dumb at times. But at least we've moved on from the "we have it totally under control" and "it's going to be just fine" phase.
I suppose it's better late than never. He and his toadies are still blaming the Obama Admin for the initial sluggish response. Also, the 'flattening the curve /social distancing' appears to be happening at the state, local, and private levels in spite of a lack of federal direction. The big problem right now is a lack of test kits. Meanwhile, the Trumpies still largely think the threat has been exaggerated by the media:
Trump’s line of argument that the virus doesn’t pose a significant risk was amplified by his political allies and his allies on Fox News. Recent polls suggest that it has been effective at convincing many Americans that the coronavirus isn’t something about which they should be concerned. Or, at least, it was effective at convincing many Republicans. A poll conducted by SurveyMonkey for Axios found that more than half of Republicans see the threat posed by the coronavirus as exaggerated. Only 7 percent thought that the media underestimated the threat ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/11/trumps-efforts-downplay-risk-posed-by-coronavirus-has-worked-on-republicans/?fbclid=IwAR3lqr9GWRwJ1Yvi46L76afCG8pK4Nwj2RAtXrcUEQM-6PIznksyVUbUBKc&utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
-
It’s going to go away in April.
-
This has been the biggest failure of response to a national emergency in modern times. Much worse than the Katrina fuck up or his racist Puerto Rico disaster.
Trump continues to lie and make false claims everyday. Yesterday it was Google would have website up to do prescreenign for testing and referral up soon and all of their engineers were working on it.
Google is doing nothing of the sort. He also then babbled incoherently twice he doesn't want people running out and get tested.
He is a complete incompetent narcissistic buffoon. I do think he has decompensated functional brain damage.
His lack of any valid economic measures have exacerbated a market crash ending an 11 year Bull market.
Yesterday he sent out a self congratulatory note to all of his supporters that he personally just created the biggest stock market increase in history by announcing a national emergency at 3:30 pm EST. This guy is a total complete asshole and failure in life.
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200313220217-donald-trump-stock-signature-exlarge-169.jpg)
-
It’s going to go away in April.
I assume you are joking.
Worst-Case Estimates for U.S. Coronavirus Deaths
Projections based on C.D.C. scenarios show a potentially vast toll. But those numbers don’t account for interventions now underway.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/us/coronavirus-deaths-estimate.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/us/coronavirus-deaths-estimate.html)
-
January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”
February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”
February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”
March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9: “This blindsided the world.”
March 13: “I don't take responsibility at all.”
-
Can I see a show of hands for who would rather have Trump running healthcare than the private sector?
Nobody wants Trump in charge of anything except the uber rich,Wall Street scam artist corporations, Oil companies, the NRA, and uneducated easily fooled white redneck racist hillbillies with their guns (i.e. Indiana fans).
Unfortunately that represents about 40% of the population so the Republicans remain a threat each election.
-
It’s going to go away in April.
I'll act like you are serious.
"Since the epidemic [pandemic] is inevitable, the best strategy for coping with it is to flatten the curve—that is, to adopt measures that slow down the rate of infection. The number of people eventually infected will not necessarily be lower, but the goal is spread out the infections over time in order to avoid overtaxing the health care system with a flood of cases."
https://reason.com/2020/03/13/americans-act-to-flatten-the-coronavirus-epidemic-curve/?fbclid=IwAR3kY2LxzcjjJzkT1PwS9Pb_BzIrctqJhyQbNtNXhQdP5s-7JNRr3mzlN4o
Hopefully, this works well enough that people can say it was not a big deal after all.
-
PANDUMBIC
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1237519854204342273?s=21 (https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1237519854204342273?s=21)
-
It’s going to go away in April.
I'll act like you are serious.
"Since the epidemic [pandemic] is inevitable, the best strategy for coping with it is to flatten the curve—that is, to adopt measures that slow down the rate of infection. The number of people eventually infected will not necessarily be lower, but the goal is spread out the infections over time in order to avoid overtaxing the health care system with a flood of cases."
https://reason.com/2020/03/13/americans-act-to-flatten-the-coronavirus-epidemic-curve/?fbclid=IwAR3kY2LxzcjjJzkT1PwS9Pb_BzIrctqJhyQbNtNXhQdP5s-7JNRr3mzlN4o
Hopefully, this works well enough that people can say it was not a big deal after all.
You are correct. This is what they have settled upon trying to do. We do not want to be rationing ventilators like Italy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/us/coronavirus-deaths-estimate.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/us/coronavirus-deaths-estimate.html)
Worst-Case Estimates for U.S. Coronavirus Deaths
Projections based on C.D.C. scenarios show a potentially vast toll. But those numbers don’t account for interventions now underway.[/size][/i][/b]
And, the calculations based on the C.D.C.’s scenarios suggested, 2.4 million to 21 million people in the United States could require hospitalization, potentially crushing the nation’s medical system, which has only about 925,000 staffed hospital beds.
-
PANDUMBIC
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1237519854204342273?s=21 (https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1237519854204342273?s=21)
never let a crisis go to waste!
And while the Fed's response to this has been pretty fucking awful, politicizing a national emergency isn't cool either. We need to work together to fight this as shit is about to be bad for just about everyone going forward. If you aren't sick, your job security has probably vanished. Even if you're rich, the stock market is going to continue to take it in the ass for a while. This just plain sucks ass and I really fucking hope its gone by April, but cases are exploding right now in the US and all over the world. Not good!
-
Yes, it is going to get worse, likely much worse before it gets better.
Nobody knows exactly but look at Europe and you get the idea what we will look like very soon.
We had less than 1000 cases on Thursday and 35 or so deaths. We have 2800 today and have nearly doubled the deaths. My guess is 8-10,000 cases by next weekend as we start to make tests finally more available.
And there is no vaccine in sight until 2021 summer.
I am heavily involved in the healthcare and Beh Health field in Illinois. They are going to start using Mental Health Beds at State Hospitals for the anticipated influx of cases they are expecting from COVID-19 and turning away mental health patients to other places.
I have been working on response plans to keep families and elderly and my social workers safe for weeks with basically zero resources and guidance.
My own mother is locked in a Nursing home and we have to see her now from outside her window as there has been zero access for two weeks.
I am sorry to politicize this, but Trump and his Admin have made this much worse for the states and communities and all of us with the completely failed, ignorant, late and dangerous response. We had cases here in January.
The House worked 24/7 and passed a bill last night. Credit to Mnuchin for helping. But McConnell took a three day weekend during a world pandemic. Will not even look at it until late Monday for a vote, if then.
The Surgeon General moron toady instead lectures people and Ben fcking Carson tells people to pray.
Trump plays golf, eats KFC, and cries about Obama and wonders why people think he is an asshole.
It is failed leadership every day still and we are all paying, so, yeah, fuck them.
By the time you read this tomorrow we will have 3000+ cases and over 60 deaths.
DUMBFUCKERY
https://twitter.com/minhtngo/status/1238680076088033282?s=21 (https://twitter.com/minhtngo/status/1238680076088033282?s=21)
-
I’m no expert and I respect all opinions here but I’ll be very surprised if it’s anywhere near that bad. Flattening the infection curve by taking some pretty extreme measures should allow medical services to keep pace.
I am curious though what we should have been doing back in January?
-
I’m no expert and I respect all opinions here but I’ll be very surprised if it’s anywhere near that bad. Flattening the infection curve by taking some pretty extreme measures should allow medical services to keep pace.
I am curious though what we should have been doing back in January?
Not dismissing this as simply the flu would have been a good start.
-
I’m not really concerned over the stupid shit that comes out of Trump’s mouth. I’m talking about what actions should have been taken back in January that would have ultimately changed the outcome of this pandemic for the United States? It was going to end up here eventually no matter what. I’m just curious what would have been a better solution than monitoring it and then making moves to minimize the impact once it arrived.
-
I’m no expert and I respect all opinions here but I’ll be very surprised if it’s anywhere near that bad. Flattening the infection curve by taking some pretty extreme measures should allow medical services to keep pace.
I am curious though what we should have been doing back in January?
Actually working in a proactive manner with health experts to monitor and simply have them prepare a system response whether it would be needed or not. The POTUS could act like an adult and take this as potentially serious and inform the public in objective manner and use the risk management models and preparation as it evolved. 23 states declared an emergency as they started to ignore his lack of leadership, before he finally did so to release FEMA funds. Instead he talked about the stock market daily and bailing out hotels and resorts.
We minimized this and POTUS lied and continues to do so, ignored the WHO and CDC warnings, and then approved refusal of the WHO tests early on that every other country is using to assess the threat. We have no tests readily available. It is March 15th.
We have no idea where this is really at in the USA due to not taking any basic action in January. We are way behind.
Today they said hopefully in a week we will have tests more available.
Read this- he is a highly respected conservative journalist.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/peter-wehner-trump-presidency-over/607969/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/peter-wehner-trump-presidency-over/607969/)
-
I’m not really concerned over the stupid shit that comes out of Trump’s mouth. I’m talking about what actions should have been taken back in January that would have ultimately changed the outcome of this pandemic for the United States? It was going to end up here eventually no matter what. I’m just curious what would have been a better solution than monitoring it and then making moves to minimize the impact once it arrived.
Good plan. See, this isn't that hard. Custard could be POTUS and we would be doing better.
We actually didn't do any of the logical steps above. In fact there was a conscious self interested deranged effort by POTUS and FOX news to mislead the public and not take action and claim this was a hoax and political.
Only now are they letting Fauci and Redford take the lead- several weeks too late.
-
I expected Trump to play Baghdad Bob to protect the stock market and economy as a whole until it wasn’t possible to do so any longer. I’m sure the entire tug of war was based around avoiding a panic scenario and tanking the economy. Even still I’ll be shocked if we see anything like what happened in Italy happen here.
-
I’m no expert and I respect all opinions here but I’ll be very surprised if it’s anywhere near that bad. Flattening the infection curve by taking some pretty extreme measures should allow medical services to keep pace.
I am curious though what we should have been doing back in January?
Send a team of health experts to China on a fact-finding mission. Even if they weren’t allowed to see everything, they would have sensed the situation was much worse than advertised. On the way home, visit with government health officials in Taiwan and Japan to collect information on their preparedness and emergency measures.
Don’t duplicate the mistakes that were made in China: silence and misinformation. Appoint a high-level public health official to lead the federal task force (government health agencies plus key stakeholder groups); someone who values facts, data and reasoning, with strong communicating skills. Put him/her in charge of conveying information to the public and interacting with local and state health authorities.
Realizing and acknowledging we’re “behind the curb” on testing and monitoring, Congress releases funding to local and state public health agencies to conduct a widespread public education campaign (initial focus on social distancing and high-risk groups) to not only help minimize the spread of the virus, but also to reduce fear-mongering, conspiracies, hucksters and panic-buying. Local health agencies in particular are considered "trusted" experts in the community. They have longstanding experience in promoting socially beneficial behaviors, even if it makes our own lives less convenient. But their federal and state funding has been cut over the last 20 years.
Start working with the medical/insurance/government sectors to figure out how to incentivize people to get tested and seek treatment once it becomes widely available. Unfortunately, many people in this country are disincentivized from seeking out care because they can’t afford it. We want people, especially the elderly, poor and low-income, to know that help and resources will be available, if they need it.
-
Thanks for the details.
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
I’m curious in what ways wide scale availability of tests for the virus in January and February would have changed the trajectory here in the states?
-
Thanks for the details.
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
I’m curious in what ways wide scale availability of tests for the virus in January and February would have changed the trajectory here in the states?
Testing people getting off planes from outside the US may have helped at that time.
-
Thanks for the details.
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
I’m curious in what ways wide scale availability of tests for the virus in January and February would have changed the trajectory here in the states?
Testing people getting off planes from outside the US may have helped at that time.
Just my opinion but that’s a slippery slope. Precedent setting. You start testing everyone and then quarantining them and then they’ve probably already passed it to a big chunk of the people they’d travelled with. And where does it stop? Do we start testing for other diseases while we are at it? What happens when the next one pops up? What threshold do you start the testing? We are dealing with civil liberties here as well.
Martial law has been working pretty well in China, should we do that? Not trying to stir the pot here but I can see some valid reasons not to do mandatory testing back in January. I don’t think it helped that this started in commie China where we can’t really trust the information and statistics they provide.
-
I’m no expert and I respect all opinions here but I’ll be very surprised if it’s anywhere near that bad. Flattening the infection curve by taking some pretty extreme measures should allow medical services to keep pace.
I am curious though what we should have been doing back in January?
If we had a full bore effort to get testing infrastructure in place in January, we would have very quick testing right now, and be able to self quarantine/isolate cases, with the funding in place to make it free. These tests aren't personal health care, they are national defense.
-
Start working with the medical/insurance/government sectors to figure out how to incentivize people to get tested and seek treatment once it becomes widely available. Unfortunately, many people in this country are disincentivized from seeking out care because they can’t afford it. We want people, especially the elderly, poor and low-income, to know that help and resources will be available, if they need it.
You forgot the undocumented, who are afraid they will end up in detention. So instead they don't go in and infect a couple hundred.
Then when this thing hits farm worker communities, the food supply chain is threatened when the farm workers get sick and there is nobody to harvest/pack crops (not to mention if there is food safety issues with the virus)
-
Thanks for the details.
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
I’m curious in what ways wide scale availability of tests for the virus in January and February would have changed the trajectory here in the states?
Testing people getting off planes from outside the US may have helped at that time.
Just my opinion but that’s a slippery slope. Precedent setting. You start testing everyone and then quarantining them and then they’ve probably already passed it to a big chunk of the people they’d travelled with. And where does it stop? Do we start testing for other diseases while we are at it? What happens when the next one pops up? What threshold do you start the testing? We are dealing with civil liberties here as well.
Martial law has been working pretty well in China, should we do that? Not trying to stir the pot here but I can see some valid reasons not to do mandatory testing back in January. I don’t think it helped that this started in commie China where we can’t really trust the information and statistics they provide.
This would be a perfectly fine precedent to set for the case of a global pandemic.
If we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the carrier of a virus with 1-3% fatality rate is walking around, that's an impingement to people's right to life. Nobody has the liberty to supercede that right.
-
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
The issue is will they seek testing and treatment, given their relative lack of resources.
Coronavirus May Disproportionately Hurt the Poor—And That's Bad for Everyone
https://time.com/5800930/how-coronavirus-will-hurt-the-poor/
The particular peril of coronavirus for poor people — and then everyone else
https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2020/03/07/the-particular-peril-of-coronavirus-for-poor-people-and-then-everyone-else
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
Gelato is very proud of her.
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
what an idiot
not only for "insider trading" but for sucking Jobu's cock
although she says an independent third party does all her trading... I'm dubious she didn't tip that third party off considering she bought a teleconferencing stock after she sold the other stuff
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
what an idiot
not only for "insider trading" but for sucking Jobu's cock
Good point.
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
what an idiot
not only for "insider trading" but for sucking Jobu's cock
Good point.
She was my wife's roommate.
True story.
The Jobu story, not so much.
-
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
The issue is will they seek testing and treatment, given their relative lack of resources.
Coronavirus May Disproportionately Hurt the Poor—And That's Bad for Everyone
https://time.com/5800930/how-coronavirus-will-hurt-the-poor/
The particular peril of coronavirus for poor people — and then everyone else
https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2020/03/07/the-particular-peril-of-coronavirus-for-poor-people-and-then-everyone-else
Doesn’t every disaster disproportionately hurt the poor?
-
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
The issue is will they seek testing and treatment, given their relative lack of resources.
Coronavirus May Disproportionately Hurt the Poor—And That's Bad for Everyone
https://time.com/5800930/how-coronavirus-will-hurt-the-poor/
The particular peril of coronavirus for poor people — and then everyone else
https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2020/03/07/the-particular-peril-of-coronavirus-for-poor-people-and-then-everyone-else
Doesn’t every disaster disproportionately hurt the poor?
yes, duh
-
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
The issue is will they seek testing and treatment, given their relative lack of resources.
Coronavirus May Disproportionately Hurt the Poor—And That's Bad for Everyone
https://time.com/5800930/how-coronavirus-will-hurt-the-poor/
The particular peril of coronavirus for poor people — and then everyone else
https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2020/03/07/the-particular-peril-of-coronavirus-for-poor-people-and-then-everyone-else
Doesn’t every disaster disproportionately hurt the poor?
COVID is starting with "people who could afford to travel" and "People who interact with people who could afford to travel"
The hotspots, King County and Santa Clara County, among the highest median incomes in the nation.
NBA Players and congressmen testing positive.
Granted, they are testing positive because they can get tested.
-
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
The issue is will they seek testing and treatment, given their relative lack of resources.
Coronavirus May Disproportionately Hurt the Poor—And That's Bad for Everyone
https://time.com/5800930/how-coronavirus-will-hurt-the-poor/
The particular peril of coronavirus for poor people — and then everyone else
https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2020/03/07/the-particular-peril-of-coronavirus-for-poor-people-and-then-everyone-else
Doesn’t every disaster disproportionately hurt the poor?
COVID is starting with "people who could afford to travel" and "People who interact with people who could afford to travel"
The hotspots, King County and Santa Clara County, among the highest median incomes in the nation.
NBA Players and congressmen testing positive.
Granted, they are testing positive because they can get tested.
So...
-
So you understand that this is an American problem being spread by the privileged and affluent like Kevin Durant and Lindsey Graham.
I don't follow the NBA, but I hear it'$ a big deal in communist China. $hoe$ and thing$, I gue$$.
The Communist Party of China just made a minor misstep in hiding this from the world. Their role should be forgotten. It's now the rest of the world's problem.
Be a good comrade.
-
So you understand that this is an American problem being spread by the privileged and affluent like Kevin Durant and Lindsey Graham.
I don't follow the NBA, but I hear it'$ a big deal in communist China. $hoe$ and thing$, I gue$$.
The Communist Party of China just made a minor misstep in hiding this from the world. Their role should be forgotten. It's now the rest of the world's problem.
Be a good comrade.
You lost me with this one.
-
So you understand that this is an American problem being spread by the privileged and affluent like Kevin Durant and Lindsey Graham.
I don't follow the NBA, but I hear it'$ a big deal in communist China. $hoe$ and thing$, I gue$$.
The Communist Party of China just made a minor misstep in hiding this from the world. Their role should be forgotten. It's now the rest of the world's problem.
Be a good comrade.
You lost me with this one.
AOTC.
Try again. Good chance you'll catch up. 😁
-
Will the elderly, poor, and low income be denied treatment for the virus?
The issue is will they seek testing and treatment, given their relative lack of resources.
Coronavirus May Disproportionately Hurt the Poor—And That's Bad for Everyone
https://time.com/5800930/how-coronavirus-will-hurt-the-poor/
The particular peril of coronavirus for poor people — and then everyone else
https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2020/03/07/the-particular-peril-of-coronavirus-for-poor-people-and-then-everyone-else
Doesn’t every disaster disproportionately hurt the poor?
Reverend Al Sharpton
@TheRevAl
·
This week, in the spirit of unity, I made a moral appeal to the
@WhiteHouse
to consider the homeless & incarcerated amid #COVID19. To my surprise,
@realDonaldTrump
called me to discuss it. If Trump can call a critic like Al Sharpton, we can *all* find it in us to come together.
-
So you understand that this is an American problem being spread by the privileged and affluent like Kevin Durant and Lindsey Graham.
I don't follow the NBA, but I hear it'$ a big deal in communist China. $hoe$ and thing$, I gue$$.
The Communist Party of China just made a minor misstep in hiding this from the world. Their role should be forgotten. It's now the rest of the world's problem.
Be a good comrade.
You lost me with this one.
A comment with sarcasm in response to Custards "So...." reply to the suggestion that this is a U.S. affluence and privilege issue.
The world is in the midst a pandemic with no current cure, immunity or vaccine and a global economic shutdown caused by the Chinese Communist Party.
The U.S. situation is not because of the affluent or privileged. It's a direct result from the actions of the CCP.
-
Blame game seems unimportant now. Plenty of time for that in November. We should all be focused on coming out the other side of this.
Flatten the Curve!
-
So you understand that this is an American problem being spread by the privileged and affluent like Kevin Durant and Lindsey Graham.
I don't follow the NBA, but I hear it'$ a big deal in communist China. $hoe$ and thing$, I gue$$.
The Communist Party of China just made a minor misstep in hiding this from the world. Their role should be forgotten. It's now the rest of the world's problem.
Be a good comrade.
You lost me with this one.
A comment with sarcasm in response to Custards "So...." reply to the suggestion that this is a U.S. affluence and privilege issue.
The world is in the midst a pandemic with no current cure, immunity or vaccine and a global economic shutdown caused by the Chinese Communist Party.
The U.S. situation is not because of the affluent or privileged. It's a direct result from the actions of the CCP.
Gotcha
-
caused by the Chinese Communist Party.
It's actually a virus.
-
caused by the Chinese Communist Party.
It's actually a virus.
The Chinese Virus, I hear.
-
I mean, if it's the CCP's fault, why aren't we calling it the CCP virus?
And, better question, how did the CCP stop us from being able to appropriately manage a pandemic?
-
Fortunately we can know with certainty that it wasn’t caused by the CCP because it’s a virus. I am, however, deeply concerned that in the future governments might start creating and testing viral and bacterial weaponry. 🙏🏻
-
The debate over whether governments, media and people should use the term “Chinese Virus” has been a little sideshow. However, it’s secondary to our efforts to flatten the curve, as others have pointed out. A growing number of racist attacks against Asian-Americans in the U.S. since the outbreak has also been reported in the news media.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/us/coronavirus-racist-attacks-against-asian-americans/index.html
We need to cool things down, get focused and work together to fight the spread of the coronavirus. I also think we should be thinking long term. The evidence of China’s mishandling and cover-up of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan is a matter of public record. I know we all want its authoritarian regime to be held accountable in some way after the crisis is over. I also think many Chinese citizens want the same thing, including more open and transparent public institutions.
But labeling the virus as the “Chinese Virus” helps open the door for China’s leadership to stir up nationalistic feelings and shift blame that the country is being besieged from abroad. This will make it harder in the future for Chinese citizens to demand a more representative government that makes public health and communication a priority. It will also make it harder for the U.S. and other world leaders to demand more effective international policies that contain and reduce the potential for global pandemics.
-
The debate over whether governments, media and people should use the term “Chinese Virus” has been a little sideshow. However, it’s secondary to our efforts to flatten the curve, as others have pointed out. A growing number of racist attacks against Asian-Americans in the U.S. since the outbreak has also been reported in the news media.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/us/coronavirus-racist-attacks-against-asian-americans/index.html
We need to cool things down, get focused and work together to fight the spread of the coronavirus. I also think we should be thinking long term. The evidence of China’s mishandling and cover-up of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan is a matter of public record. I know we all want its authoritarian regime to be held accountable in some way after the crisis is over. I also think many Chinese citizens want the same thing, including more open and transparent public institutions.
But labeling the virus as the “Chinese Virus” helps open the door for China’s leadership to stir up nationalistic feelings and shift blame that the country is being besieged from abroad. This will make it harder in the future for Chinese citizens to demand a more representative government that makes public health and communication a priority. It will also make it harder for the U.S. and other world leaders to demand more effective international policies that contain and reduce the potential for global pandemics.
Well that’s exactly what they want you to think.
-
The debate over whether governments, media and people should use the term “Chinese Virus” has been a little sideshow. However, it’s secondary to our efforts to flatten the curve, as others have pointed out. A growing number of racist attacks against Asian-Americans in the U.S. since the outbreak has also been reported in the news media.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/us/coronavirus-racist-attacks-against-asian-americans/index.html
We need to cool things down, get focused and work together to fight the spread of the coronavirus. I also think we should be thinking long term. The evidence of China’s mishandling and cover-up of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan is a matter of public record. I know we all want its authoritarian regime to be held accountable in some way after the crisis is over. I also think many Chinese citizens want the same thing, including more open and transparent public institutions.
But labeling the virus as the “Chinese Virus” helps open the door for China’s leadership to stir up nationalistic feelings and shift blame that the country is being besieged from abroad. This will make it harder in the future for Chinese citizens to demand a more representative government that makes public health and communication a priority. It will also make it harder for the U.S. and other world leaders to demand more effective international policies that contain and reduce the potential for global pandemics.
I watched the subway video.
Somebody "overheard" ........
The person wearing the mask "appeared to be Asian"
This is an example of anti-Asian sentiment ?
This could also be a story about a guy and his friend having a little disagreement about the std she gave him. And maybe the "diseased bitch" isn't Asian at all.
-
Hey man, people have an agenda!
-
And, better question, how did the CCP stop us from being able to appropriately manage a pandemic?
Seeking help from the world's medical communities for a virus with no immunity, treatment, or vaccine rather than arresting the members of the medical community who were trying to warn the world and letting 30,000 people fly out of Wuhan daily would have been a good start.
-
The debate over whether governments, media and people should use the term “Chinese Virus” has been a little sideshow. However, it’s secondary to our efforts to flatten the curve, as others have pointed out. A growing number of racist attacks against Asian-Americans in the U.S. since the outbreak has also been reported in the news media.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/us/coronavirus-racist-attacks-against-asian-americans/index.html
We need to cool things down, get focused and work together to fight the spread of the coronavirus. I also think we should be thinking long term. The evidence of China’s mishandling and cover-up of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan is a matter of public record. I know we all want its authoritarian regime to be held accountable in some way after the crisis is over. I also think many Chinese citizens want the same thing, including more open and transparent public institutions.
But labeling the virus as the “Chinese Virus” helps open the door for China’s leadership to stir up nationalistic feelings and shift blame that the country is being besieged from abroad. This will make it harder in the future for Chinese citizens to demand a more representative government that makes public health and communication a priority. It will also make it harder for the U.S. and other world leaders to demand more effective international policies that contain and reduce the potential for global pandemics.
Well that’s exactly what they want you to think.
The Chinese government does not care one iota about what I, you or the average American thinks right now about influenza pandemic. Its leaders are laser-focused on controlling the narrative on the home front to cover-up their early denials and mishandling of the coronavirus. It’s what authoritarian governments do.
Chinese officials have even latched on to the latest local conspiracy theory, blaming the U.S. military for bringing the virus to Wuhan. (See: https://qz.com/1817736/china-fuels-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-blaming-us-army/). That type of campaign is not exactly going to “win [our] hearts and minds” here in the U.S.
No, the tit-for-tat over the name for the virus is just part of a larger effort by both the Chinese and U.S. governments to deflect criticism from their own mistakes and underperformance in dealing with the virus. Both countries need to ratchet down the petty sniping and focus on what their people need – an effective response to an unparalleled public health and economic international crisis.
-
After this is all over, if I survive, I am going to Starbucks and Chick Filet on the same day.
-
Anyone reading Bill Mitchell's tweets?
-
Anyone reading Bill Mitchell's tweets?
Who is Bill Mitchell
-
Anyone reading Bill Mitchell's tweets?
Who is Bill Mitchell
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
-
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets
-
::)
-
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets
Mitchell = Gelato is a match.
-
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/488906-coronavirus-reveals-financial-irresponsibility-of-americans
I don't think the fact that Americans own more than 1 HD TV helps prove her point. You can get a 40 inch HD tv for $300.
-
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets
I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped. To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.
-
Meanwhile, another tough day in the market forecast, businesses closing, people filing for unemployment and not 1 senator crosses the aisle.
Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---47
Alexander (R-TN)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Blackburn (R-TN)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Braun (R-IN)
Burr (R-NC)
Capito (R-WV)
Cassidy (R-LA)
Collins (R-ME)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Cotton (R-AR)
Cramer (R-ND)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Daines (R-MT)
Enzi (R-WY)
Ernst (R-IA)
Fischer (R-NE)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hawley (R-MO)
Hoeven (R-ND)
Hyde-Smith (R-MS)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (R-WI)
Kennedy (R-LA)
Lankford (R-OK)
Loeffler (R-GA)
McSally (R-AZ)
Moran (R-KS)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Perdue (R-GA)
Portman (R-OH)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rounds (R-SD)
Rubio (R-FL)
Sasse (R-NE)
Scott (R-SC)
Shelby (R-AL)
Sullivan (R-AK)
Thune (R-SD)
Tillis (R-NC)
Toomey (R-PA)
Wicker (R-MS)
Young (R-IN)
NAYs ---47
Baldwin (D-WI)
Bennet (D-CO)
Blumenthal (D-CT)
Booker (D-NJ)
Brown (D-OH)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Coons (D-DE)
Cortez Masto (D-NV)
Duckworth (D-IL)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Harris (D-CA)
Hassan (D-NH)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Hirono (D-HI)
Jones (D-AL)
Kaine (D-VA)
King (I-ME)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Leahy (D-VT)
Manchin (D-WV)
Markey (D-MA)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Murphy (D-CT)
Murray (D-WA)
Peters (D-MI)
Reed (D-RI)
Rosen (D-NV)
Schatz (D-HI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Sinema (D-AZ)
Smith (D-MN)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Udall (D-NM)
Van Hollen (D-MD)
Warner (D-VA)
Warren (D-MA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
Not Voting - 6
Gardner (R-CO)
Lee (R-UT)
Paul (R-KY)
Romney (R-UT)
Sanders (I-VT)
Scott (R-FL)
-
This is really no news and wouldn't be reported if not for 24/7 coverage. Both sides are continuing to negotiate and don't forget that the House needs to be on board as well. It'll get done in next day or so. Never saw Moscow Mitch get so excited about trying to spend our money. He wants it done before the light shines on which corporations have their hand in the cookie jar. My my, where's the Freedom Caucus?
-
Anyone reading Bill Mitchell's tweets?
Put this huckster in charge of the CDC. He can run the agency from his new home in Miami.
Trump Superfan Bill Mitchell Raised Money to Move to D.C. He Moved to Miami Instead
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-superfan-bill-mitchell-raised-money-to-move-to-dc-then-he-moved-to-miami-his-fans-are-pissed
-
Meanwhile, another tough day in the market forecast, businesses closing, people filing for unemployment and not 1 senator crosses the aisle.
Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---47
Alexander (R-TN)
..............
..............
Scott (R-FL)
The votes weren't there and McConnell knew it. The two sides are still split on several issues. Negotiations will continue and a deal will get done.
-
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/488906-coronavirus-reveals-financial-irresponsibility-of-americans
I don't think the fact that Americans own more than 1 HD TV helps prove her point. You can get a 40 inch HD tv for $300.
Jeff Frank also skews the numbers.
-
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets
I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped. To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.
Idk I was taking this all very seriously at first but as time goes on I’m starting to think it’s mostly a bunch of bull shit.
-
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets
Trump on March 9: "The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, “The risk is low to the average American.”'
I have a lot of conservative friends and nearly all of them support Trump. A few of them were and still are heavily invested in that take. They are big Mitchell guys. Most are not buying it it all. They understand the need for social distancing to flatten the curve. Plus, we are in the high risk age group and some of us have health conditions.
Trump suddenly did a 180 on March 11, but Mitchell and a few loons are sticking to their guns. They think Trump was right all along.
The stock market was approaching a major correction with the Shiller PE Ratio at 32 a moth ago. The covid-19 pandemic gives Trump something to blame. Meanwhile, he has already denied he was ever in denial mode.
Trump on March 17: "I've always known this is a real, this is a pandemic. I've felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic."
Trump on Feb 14: "We have a very small number of people in the country, right now, with it. It’s like around 12. Many of them are getting better. Some are fully recovered already. So we’re in very good shape."
Jan. 22: A reporter asks if there are worries about a pandemic. Trump responds: "No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s — going to be just fine."
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/mar/20/how-donald-trump-responded-coronavirus-pandemic/
-
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets
I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped. To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.
Idk I was taking this all very seriously at first but as time goes on I’m starting to think it’s mostly a bunch of bull shit.
These are rough numbers, but are not too far off. Suppose there is a virulent strain of of flu. 50 million Americans catch it. 400,000 require hospitalization. There are 50,000 deaths. Mitchell claims nobody cares. He points out that it did not overstrain the healthcare system.
Now suppose 50 million Americans are infected with covid-19. Based on past experience; 8,000,000 to 10,000,000 might require hospitalization. If that happened quickly, we would not have enough hospital beds or respirators and would have to triage. See Italy. We could be looking at minimally 500,000 to 1,500,000 deaths, potentially more.
-
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets
I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped. To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.
Idk I was taking this all very seriously at first but as time goes on I’m starting to think it’s mostly a bunch of bull shit.
These are rough numbers, but are not too far off. Suppose there is a virulent strain of of flu. 50 million Americans catch it. 400,000 require hospitalization. There are 50,000 deaths. Mitchell claims nobody cares. He points out that it did not overstrain the healthcare system.
Now suppose 50 million Americans are infected with covid-19. Based on past experience; 8,000,000 to 10,000,000 might require hospitalization. If that happened quickly, we would not have enough hospital beds or respirators and would have to triage. See Italy. We could be looking at minimally 500,000 to 1,500,000 deaths, potentially more.
well even with 1.4 million deaths, this "stimulus package" of 1.4 trillion is costing taxpayers 1 million dollars per death... fucking ridiculous
-
I’d like to hear your thoughts on his tweets
I missed the part during the H1N1 issues where China closed down for business and hospitals in certain areas were swamped. To be completely honest, I don't even remember the H1N1 being an issue.
Idk I was taking this all very seriously at first but as time goes on I’m starting to think it’s mostly a bunch of bull shit.
These are rough numbers, but are not too far off. Suppose there is a virulent strain of of flu. 50 million Americans catch it. 400,000 require hospitalization. There are 50,000 deaths. Mitchell claims nobody cares. He points out that it did not overstrain the healthcare system.
Now suppose 50 million Americans are infected with covid-19. Based on past experience; 8,000,000 to 10,000,000 might require hospitalization. If that happened quickly, we would not have enough hospital beds or respirators and would have to triage. See Italy. We could be looking at minimally 500,000 to 1,500,000 deaths, potentially more.
well even with 1.4 million deaths, this "stimulus package" of 1.4 trillion is costing taxpayers 1 million dollars per death... fucking ridiculous
How much is it costing per living taxpayer? May be the more accurate metric.
-
And the mortality rate is hovering around 1% and will continue to drop as more and more lightly symptomatic or asymptomatic people are tested. Germany (where a lot more tests have been administered) has a much lower mortality rate. One that will likely mirror ours once our testing continues to get ramped up. This shit has been here literally for months.
The more the media panics everyone the more every person that gets a sniffle or a cough is going to get a test for covid 19 or going to the ER and tying up precious medical resources. All for basically a slightly stronger version of the flu.
And I’m seriously gonna be pissed if this ends up being less severe than H1N1. Pretty dangerous precedent to set...now every time a virus comes around we shut the whole economy down? This is economically killing the people in the service industry who can least afford to be out of work indefinitely. The fat cats on Wall St will all be fine and will buy everything back for pennies on the dollar when the economy goes on another big bull run while our most vulnerable people won’t be able to afford to feed or house their children.
And if you look back at the alarmist bullshit Time and the like were putting out just 10-12 days ago, well, let’s just say they are not aging well at all.
-
And the mortality rate is hovering around 1% and will continue to drop
There's still unknowns both on the numerator and the denominator, and in the forward mortality rate, a big variable is whether urban hospitals are pushed to max capacity.
Bergamo (122k) delayed doing a lock-down until March 9 and maxed ICU beds just 9 days later (March 18). At the time of the Bergamo lockdown, Italy had 9k cases / 51M population, so 0.00018 cases per capita. The US, just yesterday, hit 35k cumulative cases / 325M population, so we're roughly at the same per capita *known* infection rate, so by that metric we're about ~2 weeks behind northern Italy if there's any analogous spread here.
Italy is now at 64k confirmed w/ 6k deaths. If the US has similar linear/multiple expansion, in 2 weeks we're looking at 245,000 cases. At the ~1-1.5% death rate we have now, we'll lose 2500-3500 of those people and the cumulative effect of this over the next 3 months will be like an aggravated flu season.
But there are a few really big unknowns. One is that we aren't even close to testing everyone, which includes the recently deceased outside of hospitals. Again, going back to Bergamo, its year-over-year death rate is still higher than what can be accounted for by known covid infections. https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/21/italian-mayor-claims-the-true-death-toll-from-covid-19-likely-to-be-much-higher (https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/21/italian-mayor-claims-the-true-death-toll-from-covid-19-likely-to-be-much-higher). One possibility is that they (and likely we) are missing a lot covid-19 in the wild that's killed people outside of the healthcare system. Pneumonia is not an uncommon cause of death as it is, and we have anecdotal evidence that this thing is more saturated in the US than we first thought.
A second variable is whether regional health resources are strained or exhausted. Northern Italy is fairly well of and they have more hospital beds than us per capita although fewer ICU units.
In any event, the 1-1.5% death rate presumes appropriate medical care. If we have to triage ventilators in any region, the death rate for elderly and at-risk patients will skyrocket. We have 1M hospital beds and 175k ventilators nationwide, but it's going to be more important that we avoid exhausting resources in individual metropolitan areas and it's more difficult to do that here than in other countries for a variety of reasons.
If we succeed in doing that, it doesn't mean covid-19 was overblown; it means we beat a real threat that was beatable. And it is a real threat b/c while Bergamo is the worst scenario in Italy currently, we have a good 15 metropolitan areas with 5-10x the people and higher population densities. And remember, this thing's like looking at the stars.
All this is compounded by that it's a weird disease that can be either entirely asymptomatic or put healthy young people into a tailspin and we have no idea what the long-term effects on lung issues are. Plus, what we see in ERs today is what was infected 1-2 weeks ago, so it's possible there's pending exponential growth in our bigger cities that we're not seeing yet.
It we see the growth curves level off and ventilator/ICU rotations stabilize, I'm fine with going back to quasi-normal, but we're not there yet and may not be for another few weeks. If we get to the end of the month and Trump tells everyone to go back to normal, we're risking a catastrophe that would amplify the economic issues that he's already complaining about. I don't think Trump has the capacity to imagine how ugly this is capable of being.
-
I’m not convinced such a catastrophe would happen if things were to return to quasi normal come April 1.
A friend and I were saying it well before I saw anyone else mention it—in reality it only severely affects a limited number of people. Isolate those at greatest risk and let people get back to work with rational solutions like social distancing and limiting contact with elderly for some time. It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
The death numbers from Italy can’t be trusted whatsoever and are a complete anomaly to what we are seeing in the rest of the developed world. Italy also was a direct hot spot for it due to the connections with Wuhan and has an old af population.
-
We’re just a bunch of amateurs speculating about this virus. There is much we don’t know. A favorite blogger of mine whose been analyzing the coronavirus growth rates in Western countries made some interesting points that resonate with me.
We haven’t put in place the same stringent control measures as other countries like Italy. If Trump relaxes the control measures currently in place, we have no way of knowing what will happen next. Will the virus become dormant for the summer months and then return in fall (e.g., 1918 influenza pandemic)? Will it re-emerge as soon as control measures are abandoned? Will it be seeded by travel with other infected countries that are on different schedules?
Right now, there is both positive and negative evidence about all this. It’s too early to know anything for certain. I’ll be interested in seeing if there is a “Spring Break” effect. Prudence seems the best course as our public health officials, scientific experts and medical community get a better handle on this virus.
-
It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
What is an irregular death? No one knows who has what if there are no tests and people are asymptomatic. The tests just confirm that someone has it right then and there. It neither b
Negates nor confirms that there are people out there who have no idea whether they have it or not spreading it to someone who it may wind up killing.
The point is that we do not want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed.
China closed for, what, months? We can't do 15 days? So we've gone from concerns over "death panels" to "fuck grandma/die Boomer!' in 10 years?
-
We’re just a bunch of amateurs speculating about this virus. There is much we don’t know. A favorite blogger of mine whose been analyzing the coronavirus growth rates in Western countries made some interesting points that resonate with me.
We haven’t put in place the same stringent control measures as other countries like Italy. If Trump relaxes the control measures currently in place, we have no way of knowing what will happen next. Will the virus become dormant for the summer months and then return in fall (e.g., 1918 influenza pandemic)? Will it re-emerge as soon as control measures are abandoned? Will it be seeded by travel with other infected countries that are on different schedules?
Right now, there is both positive and negative evidence about all this. It’s too early to know anything for certain. I’ll be interested in seeing if there is a “Spring Break” effect. Prudence seems the best course as our public health officials, scientific experts and medical community get a better handle on this virus.
And yet I'm getting emails every day from Jewel and Tony's Fresh Market saying that they are immediately hiring for all shifts and positions and locations, and will accommodate temp work, as they are desperate for people. If you need a job, they look to be out there.
-
It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
What is an irregular death? No one knows who has what if there are no tests and people are asymptomatic. The tests just confirm that someone has it right then and there. It neither b
Negates nor confirms that there are people out there who have no idea whether they have it or not spreading it to someone who it may wind up killing.
The point is that we do not want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed.
China closed for, what, months? We can't do 15 days? So we've gone from concerns over "death panels" to "fuck grandma/die Boomer!' in 10 years?
A rash of deaths in an area(s) that doesn’t correspond to normal seasonal illness. Or point to a new localized epidemic.
I’m quite familiar with “flattening the curve”
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
-
Let the scientists and professionals tell us what to do, blah blah blah.
I noticed Kelly Loeffler was brought up here the other day.
Two months ago today members of Congress were briefed about the corona virus situation. Some of those members, like Kelly, started unloading millions of dollars worth of shares that would be hurt by a stock market collapse. Some then bought into stocks that would be directly benefitted by this situation!!! Golly what a coincidence!
This current situation wasn’t a result of improper planning or testing or anything else, they knew Americans were going to be sheltering in place and working from home 2+ months ago FFS. And that’s just the people being briefed. The people briefing them...how long did they know before the senators knew, and what did they know, exactly?
But go ahead and believe your flavor of talking heads on TV and identity politics like the good loyal subjects you are.
(https://i.ibb.co/qJx7LDT/2-CED0-EB3-EA22-4-A87-97-BA-06-B39151-B5-DA.png) (https://ibb.co/MB9ZygF)
-
Let the scientists and professionals tell us what to do, blah blah blah.
I noticed Kelly Loeffler was brought up here the other day.
Two months ago today members of Congress were briefed about the corona virus situation. Some of those members, like Kelly, started unloading millions of dollars worth of shares that would be hurt by a stock market collapse. Some then bought into stocks that would be directly benefitted by this situation!!! Golly what a coincidence!
This current situation wasn’t a result of improper planning or testing or anything else, they knew Americans were going to be sheltering in place and working from home 2+ months ago FFS. And that’s just the people being briefed. The people briefing them...how long did they know before the senators knew, and what did they know, exactly?
But go ahead and believe your flavor of talking heads on TV and identity politics like the good loyal subjects you are.
(https://i.ibb.co/qJx7LDT/2-CED0-EB3-EA22-4-A87-97-BA-06-B39151-B5-DA.png) (https://ibb.co/MB9ZygF)
Who here has approved of what she, and the other senators, did?
-
It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
What is an irregular death? No one knows who has what if there are no tests and people are asymptomatic. The tests just confirm that someone has it right then and there. It neither b
Negates nor confirms that there are people out there who have no idea whether they have it or not spreading it to someone who it may wind up killing.
The point is that we do not want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed.
China closed for, what, months? We can't do 15 days? So we've gone from concerns over "death panels" to "fuck grandma/die Boomer!' in 10 years?
A rash of deaths in an area(s) that doesn’t correspond to normal seasonal illness. Or point to a new localized epidemic.
I’m quite familiar with “flattening the curve”
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt. Gov. of Texas did, didn't he?
-
Custard, you do not think the economy will just explode once this is all done? Maybe not the Kimberly-Clark stock, but everyone else?
-
NYT has an interesting article (subscription required) about South Korea’s efforts to flatten the curve of new infections, doing so without having to take significant control measures like those in China, Europe and the U.S. Here are the lessons learned: swift action, widespread testing and contact tracing, and critical support from citizens.
How South Korea Flattened the Curve
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-flatten-curve.html
Here in the United States, public health experts warn that the nation is still falling well short of enough testing capacity to keep ahead of the virus. Plus it can often take a week just to get results back.
Testing blunders crippled US response as coronavirus spread
https://apnews.com/c335958b1f8f6a37b19b421bc7759722
It took six days to get test results back for Rand Paul. And he may have passed the virus to others during that time period.
It’s only been in the last few days that the U.S. began testing more people each day than far smaller South Korea, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. We are moving in the right direction, but we’re still far from where we need to be.
-
It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
What is an irregular death? No one knows who has what if there are no tests and people are asymptomatic. The tests just confirm that someone has it right then and there. It neither b
Negates nor confirms that there are people out there who have no idea whether they have it or not spreading it to someone who it may wind up killing.
The point is that we do not want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed.
China closed for, what, months? We can't do 15 days? So we've gone from concerns over "death panels" to "fuck grandma/die Boomer!' in 10 years?
A rash of deaths in an area(s) that doesn’t correspond to normal seasonal illness. Or point to a new localized epidemic.
I’m quite familiar with “flattening the curve”
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt. Gov. of Texas did, didn't he?
What the It Gov was saying, I believe, is find out where we are after the 15 day time frame and take it from there as far as how fast we let people back in the work force. Further transmission of the virus is hopefully reduced by fewer people contracting the virus during these 15 days. If you don't catch it, you won't pass it on. But start getting people back to work.
The possibility of a depression era is not out of the question if the virus is not contained, and the It Gov was saying to not let that happen for the sake of you youngsters and the kids. If supporting the economy by getting people back to work means more people like him and me don't live thru the virus; then so be it. Destroying the hopes and dreams of younger people at the expense of a bunch of grumpy old people is not fair to the people with their whole lives ahead of them.
-
NYT has an interesting article (subscription required) about South Korea’s efforts to flatten the curve of new infections, doing so without having to take significant control measures like those in China, Europe and the U.S. Here are the lessons learned: swift action, widespread testing and contact tracing, and critical support from citizens.
How South Korea Flattened the Curve
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/world/asia/coronavirus-south-korea-flatten-curve.html
Here in the United States, public health experts warn that the nation is still falling well short of enough testing capacity to keep ahead of the virus. Plus it can often take a week just to get results back.
Testing blunders crippled US response as coronavirus spread
https://apnews.com/c335958b1f8f6a37b19b421bc7759722
It took six days to get test results back for Rand Paul. And he may have passed the virus to others during that time period.
It’s only been in the last few days that the U.S. began testing more people each day than far smaller South Korea, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. We are moving in the right direction, but we’re still far from where we need to be.
S Korea has 1 international airport, 50 million people and a much smaller geographic area.
We have international ports of entry at all of the hot spots which happen to be hundreds to thousands of miles apart, 350 million people who are probably not amenable to the contact tracing, and most probably a much lower amount of critical support from citizens.
Contract tracing in Singapore showed 3 churches as the primary transmission centers. The gov of Fucking scUM is allowing church services partly due to separation of church and state.
It's quite a complex problem, but I've been doing my bit.
I was going to add that being old, I can afford to. My retirement accounts aren't acting like I can afford much of anything tho.
No edit. I typed Mich and it came out fucking scUM. So I'll leave it that way.
-
Can watch it and decide for yourselves.....
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/coronavirus/article241456281.html
“No one reached out to me and said, ‘As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that America loves for its children and grandchildren?’ And if that is the exchange, I’m all in,” Patrick told Carlson.
“Those of us who are 70 plus, we’ll take care of ourselves. But don’t sacrifice the country,” he said.
“I don’t want the whole country to be sacrificed,” he said on Fox News.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/24/texas_lt_gov_dan_patrick_a_lot_of_grandparents_would_be_willing_to_die_to_stop_a_second_great_depression.html
"I just think there are lots of grandparents out there in this country like me — I have six grandchildren — that's what we all care about. ... And I want to live smart and see through this, but I don't want the whole country to be sacrificed. And that's what I see."
-
I’m not convinced such a catastrophe would happen if things were to return to quasi normal come April 1.
A friend and I were saying it well before I saw anyone else mention it—in reality it only severely affects a limited number of people. I
THat's the real issue, the total number who experience symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization. The experts are looking the numbers they have; hospitalization rates of 12 to 20%. Compared to .8 to 2% for the flu.
It's higher for certain at risk groups, but ... "As of March 16, in the United States ... ... Among (12% [rate]) ... patients known to have been hospitalized, ... 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, 20% were aged 20–44 years ..."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w
That's a 12% hospitalization rate and over half are under 55. Other than children, there is no safe group, though some children will experience severe symptoms.
-
I’m not convinced such a catastrophe would happen if things were to return to quasi normal come April 1.
A friend and I were saying it well before I saw anyone else mention it—in reality it only severely affects a limited number of people. I
THat's the real issue, the total number who experience symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization. The experts are looking the numbers they have; hospitalization rates of 12 to 20%. Compared to .8 to 2% or less for the flu.
It's higher for certain at risk groups, but ... "As of March 16, in the United States ... ... Among (12% [rate]) ... patients known to have been hospitalized, ... 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, 20% were aged 20–44 years ..."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w
That's a 12% hospitalization rate and over half are under 55. Other than children, there is no safe group, though some children will experience severe symptoms.
Fuck grandma, the Boomers, the Millenials, Gen Z, Gen X, Gen Y? Anyone else?
-
And the mortality rate is hovering around 1% and will continue to drop as more and more lightly symptomatic or asymptomatic people are tested. Germany (where a lot more tests have been administered) has a much lower mortality rate. One that will likely mirror ours once our testing continues to get ramped up. This shit has been here literally for months.
The more the media panics everyone the more every person that gets a sniffle or a cough is going to get a test for covid 19 or going to the ER and tying up precious medical resources. All for basically a slightly stronger version of the flu.
And I’m seriously gonna be pissed if this ends up being less severe than H1N1.
Coronavirus death toll has already surpassed H1N1, so that's a pretty "Trumpian" statement.
-
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt Governor of Texas.
His statement was just great - "If I get it, I'll take care of myself and try to get better". But trying to get better for a 70 year old may involve a ventilator. We haven't started rationing them yet, but that's the path we would be headed towards without mitigation. But that guy's rugged individualism would vanish pretty damn quick as he'd be trying to override doctors who tell him that given his age and co-morbidities, he doesn't pass muster for a ventilator and will be on comfort care only in order to treat more likely survivors.
-
I’m not convinced such a catastrophe would happen if things were to return to quasi normal come April 1.
A friend and I were saying it well before I saw anyone else mention it—in reality it only severely affects a limited number of people. I
THat's the real issue, the total number who experience symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization. The experts are looking the numbers they have; hospitalization rates of 12 to 20%. Compared to .8 to 2% or less for the flu.
It's higher for certain at risk groups, but ... "As of March 16, in the United States ... ... Among (12% [rate]) ... patients known to have been hospitalized, ... 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, 20% were aged 20–44 years ..."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w
That's a 12% hospitalization rate and over half are under 55. Other than children, there is no safe group, though some children will experience severe symptoms.
Fuck grandma, the Boomers, the Millenials, Gen Z, Gen X, Gen Y? Anyone else?
Is the CCP off limits ? Asking for a friend.
Italy case #1 was released from the hospital after 1 month. 38 years old.
-
I’m not convinced such a catastrophe would happen if things were to return to quasi normal come April 1.
A friend and I were saying it well before I saw anyone else mention it—in reality it only severely affects a limited number of people. I
THat's the real issue, the total number who experience symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization. The experts are looking the numbers they have; hospitalization rates of 12 to 20%. Compared to .8 to 2% for the flu.
It's higher for certain at risk groups, but ... "As of March 16, in the United States ... ... Among (12% [rate]) ... patients known to have been hospitalized, ... 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, 20% were aged 20–44 years ..."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w
That's a 12% hospitalization rate and over half are under 55. Other than children, there is no safe group, though some children will experience severe symptoms.
The result of this would be like what we saw in Puerto Rico. Sure, only a couple hundred died in the storm, but then thousands die because there is no electricity. That means those deaths were due to .. the storm. Because no storm, no power outage.
If we turn the hospitals into a mash tent because we've allowed so many to get sick, what happpens to you when you get into a car wreck and need trauma care? There's no room for you, and the surgeon is in the ICU being treated.
That's where the Lt Gov fails in his analysis, not mitigating corona will basically put our entire health care system on halt. What happens to high risk childbirths? Major urgent orthopedic issues. Standard issue heart failure?
-
I’m not convinced such a catastrophe would happen if things were to return to quasi normal come April 1.
A friend and I were saying it well before I saw anyone else mention it—in reality it only severely affects a limited number of people. I
THat's the real issue, the total number who experience symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization. The experts are looking the numbers they have; hospitalization rates of 12 to 20%. Compared to .8 to 2% or less for the flu.
It's higher for certain at risk groups, but ... "As of March 16, in the United States ... ... Among (12% [rate]) ... patients known to have been hospitalized, ... 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, 20% were aged 20–44 years ..."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w
That's a 12% hospitalization rate and over half are under 55. Other than children, there is no safe group, though some children will experience severe symptoms.
Fuck grandma, the Boomers, the Millenials, Gen Z, Gen X, Gen Y? Anyone else?
Is the CCP off limits ? Asking for a friend.
Italy case #1 was released from the hospital after 1 month. 38 years old.
We'll triage sick CCP members if they are here too. :)
So Italy's case # 1 got treated in a hospital? They wound up in a position where some elderly patients were denied treatment. Idiots like Bill Mitchell actually blamed that on Italy's "socialized medicine." Who / what will they blame if social distancing is too little too late and we have to resort to triaging in NYC, LA, and elsewhere? The CCP?
Someone somewhere suggested the Chinese have learned from Israel -- treat any criticism of their government as an ethnic slur. Just as Trump interprets any hard questions from the media as personal attacks. In the end, Trumpian blame shifting / credit taking /posturing is shallow, a waste of time, and is not going to mitigate the covid-19 crisis.
-
Let the scientists and professionals tell us what to do, blah blah blah.
I noticed Kelly Loeffler was brought up here the other day.
Two months ago today members of Congress were briefed about the corona virus situation. Some of those members, like Kelly, started unloading millions of dollars worth of shares that would be hurt by a stock market collapse. Some then bought into stocks that would be directly benefitted by this situation!!! Golly what a coincidence!
This current situation wasn’t a result of improper planning or testing or anything else, they knew Americans were going to be sheltering in place and working from home 2+ months ago FFS. And that’s just the people being briefed. The people briefing them...how long did they know before the senators knew, and what did they know, exactly?
But go ahead and believe your flavor of talking heads on TV and identity politics like the good loyal subjects you are.
(https://i.ibb.co/qJx7LDT/2-CED0-EB3-EA22-4-A87-97-BA-06-B39151-B5-DA.png) (https://ibb.co/MB9ZygF)
Who here has approved of what she, and the other senators, did?
You’re missing the entire point. Two months ago people in the know made huge financial moves because they knew this was going to be the outcome. Given the amount of time since then and the eventual lockdown, it’s almost like...someone wanted this outcome.
-
And the mortality rate is hovering around 1% and will continue to drop as more and more lightly symptomatic or asymptomatic people are tested. Germany (where a lot more tests have been administered) has a much lower mortality rate. One that will likely mirror ours once our testing continues to get ramped up. This shit has been here literally for months.
The more the media panics everyone the more every person that gets a sniffle or a cough is going to get a test for covid 19 or going to the ER and tying up precious medical resources. All for basically a slightly stronger version of the flu.
And I’m seriously gonna be pissed if this ends up being less severe than H1N1.
Coronavirus death toll has already surpassed H1N1, so that's a pretty "Trumpian" statement.
(https://i.ibb.co/WGVJSkz/B44-A283-B-0-E52-4756-A051-A43-F8-BF23-F3-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TYW3z40)
(https://i.ibb.co/WgKhprg/7-BCCB442-A521-470-E-B002-823-EE2-B206-DA.png) (https://ibb.co/4PNqgbP)
image uploader (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://media.tenor.com/images/44a4502bdf29031b50b7392b60635390/tenor.gif)
-
It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
What is an irregular death? No one knows who has what if there are no tests and people are asymptomatic. The tests just confirm that someone has it right then and there. It neither b
Negates nor confirms that there are people out there who have no idea whether they have it or not spreading it to someone who it may wind up killing.
The point is that we do not want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed.
China closed for, what, months? We can't do 15 days? So we've gone from concerns over "death panels" to "fuck grandma/die Boomer!' in 10 years?
A rash of deaths in an area(s) that doesn’t correspond to normal seasonal illness. Or point to a new localized epidemic.
I’m quite familiar with “flattening the curve”
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt. Gov. of Texas did, didn't he?
I think this explains why I've been getting the evil eye from some of my neighbors the last day or so. It's like I'm being measured for a coffin.
-
I’m not convinced such a catastrophe would happen if things were to return to quasi normal come April 1.
A friend and I were saying it well before I saw anyone else mention it—in reality it only severely affects a limited number of people. I
THat's the real issue, the total number who experience symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization. The experts are looking the numbers they have; hospitalization rates of 12 to 20%. Compared to .8 to 2% or less for the flu.
It's higher for certain at risk groups, but ... "As of March 16, in the United States ... ... Among (12% [rate]) ... patients known to have been hospitalized, ... 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, 20% were aged 20–44 years ..."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w
That's a 12% hospitalization rate and over half are under 55. Other than children, there is no safe group, though some children will experience severe symptoms.
Fuck grandma, the Boomers, the Millenials, Gen Z, Gen X, Gen Y? Anyone else?
Is the CCP off limits ? Asking for a friend.
Italy case #1 was released from the hospital after 1 month. 38 years old.
We'll triage sick CCP members if they are here too. :)
So Italy's case # 1 got treated in a hospital? They wound up in a position where some elderly patients were denied treatment. Idiots like Bill Mitchell actually blamed that on Italy's "socialized medicine." Who / what will they blame if social distancing is too little too late and we have to resort to triaging in NYC, LA, and elsewhere? The CCP?
Someone somewhere suggested the Chinese have learned from Israel -- treat any criticism of their government as an ethnic slur. Just as Trump interprets any hard questions from the media as personal attacks. In the end, Trumpian blame shifting / credit taking /posturing is shallow, a waste of time, and is not going to mitigate the covid-19 crisis.
Italy #1 must have gotten lucky and stuck his foot in the door early, and stayed.
We would treat the CCP. That's who we are.
-
It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
What is an irregular death? No one knows who has what if there are no tests and people are asymptomatic. The tests just confirm that someone has it right then and there. It neither b
Negates nor confirms that there are people out there who have no idea whether they have it or not spreading it to someone who it may wind up killing.
The point is that we do not want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed.
China closed for, what, months? We can't do 15 days? So we've gone from concerns over "death panels" to "fuck grandma/die Boomer!' in 10 years?
A rash of deaths in an area(s) that doesn’t correspond to normal seasonal illness. Or point to a new localized epidemic.
I’m quite familiar with “flattening the curve”
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt. Gov. of Texas did, didn't he?
I think this explains why I've been getting the evil eye from some of my neighbors the last day or so. It's like I'm being measured for a coffin.
I haven't noticed that problem yet, but haven't been out much.
I did have a Warren Spahn baseball card. Maybe 60 years ago.
-
It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
What is an irregular death? No one knows who has what if there are no tests and people are asymptomatic. The tests just confirm that someone has it right then and there. It neither b
Negates nor confirms that there are people out there who have no idea whether they have it or not spreading it to someone who it may wind up killing.
The point is that we do not want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed.
China closed for, what, months? We can't do 15 days? So we've gone from concerns over "death panels" to "fuck grandma/die Boomer!' in 10 years?
A rash of deaths in an area(s) that doesn’t correspond to normal seasonal illness. Or point to a new localized epidemic.
I’m quite familiar with “flattening the curve”
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt. Gov. of Texas did, didn't he?
I think this explains why I've been getting the evil eye from some of my neighbors the last day or so. It's like I'm being measured for a coffin.
I haven't noticed that problem yet, but haven't been out much.
I did have a Warren Spahn baseball card. Maybe 60 years ago.
Loved Spahnie’s very high leg kick in his delivery. Here’s an interesting tidbit about him that you may relate to. Remember Combat!, the great WW2 TV show? Spahn had a cameo as a German soldier in a 1963 episode.
-
You’re missing the entire point. Two months ago people in the know made huge financial moves because they knew this was going to be the outcome. Given the amount of time since then and the eventual lockdown, it’s almost like...someone wanted this outcome.
While recent evidence shows that people who could pull this off are actually very stupid, one would hope that the illuminati wouldn't wager their life on making a few bucks. If Chris Collins and Duncan Hunter didn't think they'd get caught, maybe these guys think they won't get sick.
Especially since they were making plenty of money just front running Trump's tweets
-
Let the scientists and professionals tell us what to do, blah blah blah.
I noticed Kelly Loeffler was brought up here the other day.
Two months ago today members of Congress were briefed about the corona virus situation. Some of those members, like Kelly, started unloading millions of dollars worth of shares that would be hurt by a stock market collapse. Some then bought into stocks that would be directly benefitted by this situation!!! Golly what a coincidence!
This current situation wasn’t a result of improper planning or testing or anything else, they knew Americans were going to be sheltering in place and working from home 2+ months ago FFS. And that’s just the people being briefed. The people briefing them...how long did they know before the senators knew, and what did they know, exactly?
But go ahead and believe your flavor of talking heads on TV and identity politics like the good loyal subjects you are.
(https://i.ibb.co/qJx7LDT/2-CED0-EB3-EA22-4-A87-97-BA-06-B39151-B5-DA.png) (https://ibb.co/MB9ZygF)
Who here has approved of what she, and the other senators, did?
You’re missing the entire point. Two months ago people in the know made huge financial moves because they knew this was going to be the outcome. Given the amount of time since then and the eventual lockdown, it’s almost like...someone wanted this outcome.
Or they just knew what was going to happen based on what they were told AND we were seeing what happened in China?
I may not like what Burr, Feinstein, etc. did, but I don't think they WANTED this to happen and FORCED it to happen. Seems rather conspiratorial and we know those boobs are pretty incompetent.
-
Who ever said they wanted it to happen or forced it? The info was brought to them by others. They just knew it was going to happen, and like most people who want to safeguard their wealth, they safeguarded their wealth. Illegally, sure. But that visceral reaction is one we can all relate to.
You seemingly understand that they knew what was going to happen, but yet you are tacitly defending them for not blowing the whistle on a global pandemic that would destroy the world economy for at least some time, result in thousands of deaths, and cause the lowest wage earners in the entire developed world to be living hand to mouth inside of two weeks?
If they knew what was happening in China and what we’d be facing here in 1.5-2 months (which they clearly did based on their actions) then why didn’t they act to prevent the outcome? Maybe because they wagered heavily in favor of the outcome we are seeing now? And why would you wager heavily in favor of any outcome? I’m not much of a gambler, but I do know smart gamblers always take a sure bet when they see it.
Just food for thought.
-
It’s already been out there and has been circulating and didn’t cause a rash of irregular deaths, and the primary reason cases are skyrocketing is that more tests are being performed.
What is an irregular death? No one knows who has what if there are no tests and people are asymptomatic. The tests just confirm that someone has it right then and there. It neither b
Negates nor confirms that there are people out there who have no idea whether they have it or not spreading it to someone who it may wind up killing.
The point is that we do not want the healthcare system to be overwhelmed.
China closed for, what, months? We can't do 15 days? So we've gone from concerns over "death panels" to "fuck grandma/die Boomer!' in 10 years?
A rash of deaths in an area(s) that doesn’t correspond to normal seasonal illness. Or point to a new localized epidemic.
I’m quite familiar with “flattening the curve”
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt. Gov. of Texas did, didn't he?
I think this explains why I've been getting the evil eye from some of my neighbors the last day or so. It's like I'm being measured for a coffin.
I haven't noticed that problem yet, but haven't been out much.
I did have a Warren Spahn baseball card. Maybe 60 years ago.
Loved Spahnie’s very high leg kick in his delivery. Here’s an interesting tidbit about him that you may relate to. Remember Combat!, the great WW2 TV show? Spahn had a cameo as a German soldier in a 1963 episode.
I do. My Mom didn't want us sneaking downstairs to watch it. The crew that took over my Dad's plane went MIA over Germany on their first combat run. Didn't know about Spahn tho.
Their talk, and my grandmother's talk, about the depression have me thinking we don't need another depression.
-
You’re missing the entire point. Two months ago people in the know made huge financial moves because they knew this was going to be the outcome. Given the amount of time since then and the eventual lockdown, it’s almost like...someone wanted this outcome.
While recent evidence shows that people who could pull this off are actually very stupid, one would hope that the illuminati wouldn't wager their life on making a few bucks. If Chris Collins and Duncan Hunter didn't think they'd get caught, maybe these guys think they won't get sick.
Especially since they were making plenty of money just front running Trump's tweets
Come on man Chris Collins and Duncan Hunter are the equivalent of NEMO State getting probation because Kansas or Kentucky paid recruits.
It’s kinda funny that most of the left complains about politicians being paid spokesmen for their corporate masters but then at other times seems to think they actually represent the proletariat and make the rules as if they’re operating autonomously. I’m just not sure how people delude themselves into that double standard. 🤷🏻♂️
-
Who ever said they wanted it to happen or forced it? The info was brought to them by others. They just knew it was going to happen, and like most people who want to safeguard their wealth, they safeguarded their wealth. Illegally, sure. But that visceral reaction is one we can all relate to.
You seemingly understand that they knew what was going to happen, but yet you are tacitly defending them for not blowing the whistle on a global pandemic that would destroy the world economy for at least some time, result in thousands of deaths, and cause the lowest wage earners in the entire developed world to be living hand to mouth inside of two weeks?
If they knew what was happening in China and what we’d be facing here in 1.5-2 months (which they clearly did based on their actions) then why didn’t they act to prevent the outcome? Maybe because they wagered heavily in favor of the outcome we are seeing now? And why would you wager heavily in favor of any outcome? I’m not much of a gambler, but I do know smart gamblers always take a sure bet when they see it. We all knew, if you were following things, what was happening in China.
Just food for thought.
You seem to be all over the road here. No one is defending them. Many are critical of the government's efforts. Some.seem to believe that the government is tanking the economy for "nothing." Seems like the markets had a better idea of what was coming and was ignoring Trump's call to go about our business as if nothing was happening.
Why didn't they act to try and stop it? Well, we know 3 of them are Trump loyalists who weren't going to cross him publicly when he was downplaying this. Diane Feinstein? Good question. Not sure what her public pronouncements were on the subject at the time while she was dumping stock. For all we know all of them were dumping their stock because they knew the threat and they knew Trump was going to refuse to do what the scientists advised was necessary.
I think you overestimate anyone's ability to stop this. You can't stop it, you can only hope to contain it.
-
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt Governor of Texas.
His statement was just great - "If I get it, I'll take care of myself and try to get better". But trying to get better for a 70 year old may involve a ventilator. We haven't started rationing them yet, but that's the path we would be headed towards without mitigation. But that guy's rugged individualism would vanish pretty damn quick as he'd be trying to override doctors who tell him that given his age and co-morbidities, he doesn't pass muster for a ventilator and will be on comfort care only in order to treat more likely survivors.
And what would you say about the priest ?
"Don Giuseppe Berardelli, 72, was the archpriest of Casnigo, a town in northern Italy about 50 miles northeast of Milan.
According to Italian news site Prima Bergamo, Berardelli died sometime between March 15 and 16 and was being treated at a hospital in nearby Lovere, as his condition worsened.
A health care worker at the hospital told the Italian online news outlet Araberara that Berardelli was given a ventilator but the priest refused it so someone who was younger than him could use it."
RIP.
-
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt Governor of Texas.
His statement was just great - "If I get it, I'll take care of myself and try to get better". But trying to get better for a 70 year old may involve a ventilator. We haven't started rationing them yet, but that's the path we would be headed towards without mitigation. But that guy's rugged individualism would vanish pretty damn quick as he'd be trying to override doctors who tell him that given his age and co-morbidities, he doesn't pass muster for a ventilator and will be on comfort care only in order to treat more likely survivors.
And what would you say about the priest ?
"Don Giuseppe Berardelli, 72, was the archpriest of Casnigo, a town in northern Italy about 50 miles northeast of Milan.
According to Italian news site Prima Bergamo, Berardelli died sometime between March 15 and 16 and was being treated at a hospital in nearby Lovere, as his condition worsened.
A health care worker at the hospital told the Italian online news outlet Araberara that Berardelli was given a ventilator but the priest refused it so someone who was younger than him could use it."
RIP.
He was a priest, maybe a hero, and not a typically selfish politician?
-
Who is saying fuck grandma/die Boomer?
The Lt Governor of Texas.
His statement was just great - "If I get it, I'll take care of myself and try to get better". But trying to get better for a 70 year old may involve a ventilator. We haven't started rationing them yet, but that's the path we would be headed towards without mitigation. But that guy's rugged individualism would vanish pretty damn quick as he'd be trying to override doctors who tell him that given his age and co-morbidities, he doesn't pass muster for a ventilator and will be on comfort care only in order to treat more likely survivors.
And what would you say about the priest ?
"Don Giuseppe Berardelli, 72, was the archpriest of Casnigo, a town in northern Italy about 50 miles northeast of Milan.
According to Italian news site Prima Bergamo, Berardelli died sometime between March 15 and 16 and was being treated at a hospital in nearby Lovere, as his condition worsened.
A health care worker at the hospital told the Italian online news outlet Araberara that Berardelli was given a ventilator but the priest refused it so someone who was younger than him could use it."
RIP.
He was a priest, maybe a hero, and not a typically selfish politician?
I'm not sure that would make for a good grave stone inscription.
-
we bottomed on monday, buy anything and everything
enjoy
-
Who ever said they wanted it to happen or forced it? The info was brought to them by others. They just knew it was going to happen, and like most people who want to safeguard their wealth, they safeguarded their wealth. Illegally, sure. But that visceral reaction is one we can all relate to.
You seemingly understand that they knew what was going to happen, but yet you are tacitly defending them for not blowing the whistle on a global pandemic that would destroy the world economy for at least some time, result in thousands of deaths, and cause the lowest wage earners in the entire developed world to be living hand to mouth inside of two weeks?
If they knew what was happening in China and what we’d be facing here in 1.5-2 months (which they clearly did based on their actions) then why didn’t they act to prevent the outcome? Maybe because they wagered heavily in favor of the outcome we are seeing now? And why would you wager heavily in favor of any outcome? I’m not much of a gambler, but I do know smart gamblers always take a sure bet when they see it. We all knew, if you were following things, what was happening in China.
Just food for thought.
You seem to be all over the road here. No one is defending them. Many are critical of the government's efforts. Some.seem to believe that the government is tanking the economy for "nothing." Seems like the markets had a better idea of what was coming and was ignoring Trump's call to go about our business as if nothing was happening.
Why didn't they act to try and stop it? Well, we know 3 of them are Trump loyalists who weren't going to cross him publicly when he was downplaying this. Diane Feinstein? Good question. Not sure what her public pronouncements were on the subject at the time while she was dumping stock. For all we know all of them were dumping their stock because they knew the threat and they knew Trump was going to refuse to do what the scientists advised was necessary.
I think you overestimate anyone's ability to stop this. You can't stop it, you can only hope to contain it.
That’s what they say about DCPeru on the playgrounds of LaSalle County
-
“The truth is that protecting people and protecting the economy are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one depends on the other. We save our economy by first saving lives. And we have to do it in that order.”
— Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R), on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1242517625768460289
DeWine is the type of Republican I miss. Conservative, not policies I would support, but fact based, no conspiracy theories, intelligent and competent.
-
DeWine is the type of Republican I miss. Conservative, not policies I would support, but fact based, no conspiracy theories, intelligent and competent.
I agree with 74. I was a life long independent and always took pride in splitting the ticket although with a slight lean to the donkeys. Once the elephants engaged in the full press to deny folks access to voting, I registered as a Dem. I still split my ticket on occasion but just in local races.
-
The result of this would be like what we saw in Puerto Rico. Sure, only a couple hundred died in the storm, but then thousands die because there is no electricity. That means those deaths were due to .. the storm. Because no storm, no power outage.
If we turn the hospitals into a mash tent because we've allowed so many to get sick, what happpens to you when you get into a car wreck and need trauma care? There's no room for you, and the surgeon is in the ICU being treated.
That's where the Lt Gov fails in his analysis, not mitigating corona will basically put our entire health care system on halt. What happens to high risk childbirths? Major urgent orthopedic issues. Standard issue heart failure?
I don't think, conceptually, people really understand that hospital capacity is finite and ultimately the issue here. Anecdotally, there are numerous reports circulating right now that ERs are already under strain in major cities. Our approach to testing has partly contributed to this b/c there's no middle ground between being asymptomatic and having symptoms/being at risk in many areas.
-
“The truth is that protecting people and protecting the economy are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one depends on the other. We save our economy by first saving lives. And we have to do it in that order.”
— Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R), on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1242517625768460289
DeWine is the type of Republican I miss. Conservative, not policies I would support, but fact based, no conspiracy theories, intelligent and competent.
I wasn't too sure about this when I heard it close to 2 weeks ago, and it looks like Ohio now has 500+ cases. 500+ appears to be in a common average of 5 cases per 100,000 people.
I'm not criticizing DeWine or the state health dept, and I assume DeWine was relying on his health dept. We're learning new things about coronavirus by the hour, and we sure didn't have any data to go off close to 2 weeks ago.
Governor Mike DeWine
✔
@GovMikeDeWine
.@DrAmyActon: I know it is hard to understand #COVID19 since we can't see it, but we know that 1% of our population is carrying this virus today -- that's over 100,000 people.
1,757
2:00 PM - Mar 12, 2020
-
Custard, this delves into what you were saying...
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/why-did-hundreds-of-ceos-resign-just-before-the-world-started-going-absolutely-crazy
-
["Don Giuseppe Berardelli, 72, was the archpriest of Casnigo, a town in northern Italy about 50 miles northeast of Milan.
According to Italian news site Prima Bergamo, Berardelli died sometime between March 15 and 16 and was being treated at a hospital in nearby Lovere, as his condition worsened.
A health care worker at the hospital told the Italian online news outlet Araberara that Berardelli was given a ventilator but the priest refused it so someone who was younger than him could use it."
RIP.
1) The Lt Governor - I can wager big money - would not be so altruistic. Nothing in his background suggests that. There are plenty of dopey priests in the Catholic Church, but there are some saints. This guy was a saint, at least in this instance.
2) I will assumt that this Priest would be like his countrymen at this point - awesome videos out there of Italian mayors launching profanity launched rants to their people to STAY THE FUCK HOME. Because unlike our friend in Texas, they hope that someone younger WON'T NEED IT
-
“The truth is that protecting people and protecting the economy are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one depends on the other. We save our economy by first saving lives. And we have to do it in that order.”
— Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R), on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1242517625768460289
DeWine is the type of Republican I miss. Conservative, not policies I would support, but fact based, no conspiracy theories, intelligent and competent.
I wasn't too sure about this when I heard it close to 2 weeks ago, and it looks like Ohio now has 500+ cases. 500+ appears to be in a common average of 5 cases per 100,000 people.
I'm not criticizing DeWine or the state health dept, and I assume DeWine was relying on his health dept. We're learning new things about coronavirus by the hour, and we sure didn't have any data to go off close to 2 weeks ago.
Governor Mike DeWine
✔
@GovMikeDeWine
.@DrAmyActon: I know it is hard to understand #COVID19 since we can't see it, but we know that 1% of our population is carrying this virus today -- that's over 100,000 people.
1,757
2:00 PM - Mar 12, 2020
Silicon Valley pretty much shut down 3 weeks ago. When our school announced on a Tuesday night that schools would close the following Monday, we shut it down immediately and didn't send our kid, that was the case for 75% of parents, the rest were people with essential jobs and no childcare. Everyone made one massive trip to the store with gloves, and shut it all down. I've spent $3.99 USD in the past 9 days, on an iPhone app. We're out of Coca-Cola, which means that I don't get a Coke for at least another week, maybe more. But we stocked up for the long haul and we're not alone.
The curve here is flattening fast because of this.
I doubt Mike DeWine has that level of constituency to protect.
-
DeWine is the type of Republican I miss. Conservative, not policies I would support, but fact based, no conspiracy theories, intelligent and competent.
I agree with 74. I was a life long independent and always took pride in splitting the ticket although with a slight lean to the donkeys. Once the elephants engaged in the full press to deny folks access to voting, I registered as a Dem. I still split my ticket on occasion but just in local races.
Your comment got me thinking of the last Republican I voted for in a statewide election. It was Judy Baar Topinka (RIP), who ran for Governor against ding-dong Rod Blagojevich in 2006. I didn’t agree with all her political views, but she was honest, candid and authentic. She would have done a good job of running state government for everyone.
-
I probably voted for more GOPs than Dems in my first few elections. They were more practical, less ideological.
The GOP is now the Southern Democrats. Some of them (Richard Shelby) are the actual same people. I always hated the Southern Democrats, and I still hate them. I also hated the David Bonior/Dick Gephardt types, who were simply mouthpieces for Big Labor.
Today's GOP is basically the Confederate States of America. They never went away. They still don't care about the Constitution. They even fly the same flags and worship the same heroes.
-
Custard, this delves into what you were saying...
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/why-did-hundreds-of-ceos-resign-just-before-the-world-started-going-absolutely-crazy
Interesting. “The Big Club” (and we ain’t in it) as George Carlin refers to it, always knows.
-
I found this interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqqhtJv/04-E19-FEB-F0-C0-4759-BD6-B-59-C609695598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkkWTpB)
-
I found this interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqqhtJv/04-E19-FEB-F0-C0-4759-BD6-B-59-C609695598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkkWTpB)
Or car crashes.
Then again, if you do get in a car crash today, you might be more likely to die because you will struggle to get medical help, and it would be in a hospital full of COVID cases
-
I found this interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqqhtJv/04-E19-FEB-F0-C0-4759-BD6-B-59-C609695598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkkWTpB)
Three thoughts:
1. Those eco-terrorists at Greenpeace were right: Kill the Humans, Save the Planet.
2. There would have been no or much less reduction in air pollution (i.e., reduced need for extensive control measures) if the Chinese had proactively shut down the wet markets, responded more effectively to control the spread of the coronavirus and shared information with other countries in a timely manner so they could prepare better for the pandemic. As we all know, these actions would have also resulted in fewer deaths from the virus in China and other countries.
3. A big manufacturing push is expected in China and other countries to try to make up for the economic losses due to the influenza pandemic. This could increase emissions even more than before the big drop in air pollution. Hopefully, any economic recovery packages for the manufacturing sector in these countries will include incentives for cleaner technologies.
P.S. Here’s the last part of the paragraph from the above article: “On the other hand, the overburdening of the health system due to COVID-19 will surely create suffering for people who need normal emergency support and if there is no economic foundation, countries won’t be able to finance their health care systems anymore.”
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/03/23/a-mortality-perspective-on-covid-19-time-location-and-age/
-
And the mortality rate is hovering around 1% and will continue to drop as more and more lightly symptomatic or asymptomatic people are tested. Germany (where a lot more tests have been administered) has a much lower mortality rate. One that will likely mirror ours once our testing continues to get ramped up. This shit has been here literally for months.
The more the media panics everyone the more every person that gets a sniffle or a cough is going to get a test for covid 19 or going to the ER and tying up precious medical resources. All for basically a slightly stronger version of the flu.
And I’m seriously gonna be pissed if this ends up being less severe than H1N1.
Coronavirus death toll has already surpassed H1N1, so that's a pretty "Trumpian" statement.
(https://i.ibb.co/WGVJSkz/B44-A283-B-0-E52-4756-A051-A43-F8-BF23-F3-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TYW3z40)
(https://i.ibb.co/WgKhprg/7-BCCB442-A521-470-E-B002-823-EE2-B206-DA.png) (https://ibb.co/4PNqgbP)
image uploader (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://media.tenor.com/images/44a4502bdf29031b50b7392b60635390/tenor.gif)
The first H1N1 infections were detected in April, in the United States, The death toll did not reach 1000 for 6 months, until October.
The first covid-19 infection in the US was January 20. We flew past 1000 deaths today, about 2 months later. So yes, in the same time span, coronavirus death toll is surpassing that of H1n1 in the United States by quite a bit.
-
The Schiller P/E ration was at 32 and rising roughly a month ago. We were heading for a correction, possibly a recession. The only magic wand Trump waved was conflating his quarterly with Obama's annualized GDP growth. Also, notice we are back to using U-3 unemployment? Wtf happened to the labor participation rate? Now, Trump can blame covid-19 for ruining his beautiful economy. If the social distancing he reluctantly accepted works out, Trump will say it was his plan all along. Republicans will use time tested keynesian stimuli to combat recession, and credit supply side cuts when / if that works.
-
I found this interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqqhtJv/04-E19-FEB-F0-C0-4759-BD6-B-59-C609695598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkkWTpB)
Three thoughts:
1. Those eco-terrorists at Greenpeace were right: Kill the Humans, Save the Planet.
2. There would have been no or much less reduction in air pollution (i.e., reduced need for extensive control measures) if the Chinese had proactively shut down the wet markets, responded more effectively to control the spread of the coronavirus and shared information with other countries in a timely manner so they could prepare better for the pandemic. As we all know, these actions would have also resulted in fewer deaths from the virus in China and other countries.
3. A big manufacturing push is expected in China and other countries to try to make up for the economic losses due to the influenza pandemic. This could increase emissions even more than before the big drop in air pollution. Hopefully, any economic recovery packages for the manufacturing sector in these countries will include incentives for cleaner technologies.
P.S. Here’s the last part of the paragraph from the above article: “On the other hand, the overburdening of the health system due to COVID-19 will surely create suffering for people who need normal emergency support and if there is no economic foundation, countries won’t be able to finance their health care systems anymore.”
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/03/23/a-mortality-perspective-on-covid-19-time-location-and-age/
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
-
Custard, this delves into what you were saying...
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/why-did-hundreds-of-ceos-resign-just-before-the-world-started-going-absolutely-crazy
How about Bill Ackman?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/25/bill-ackman-exits-market-hedges-uses-2-billion-he-made-to-buy-more-stocks-including-hilton.html
-
I found this interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqqhtJv/04-E19-FEB-F0-C0-4759-BD6-B-59-C609695598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkkWTpB)
Or car crashes.
Then again, if you do get in a car crash today, you might be more likely to die because you will struggle to get medical help, and it would be in a hospital full of COVID cases
Nope plenty of medical help and capacity anywhere within a day’s drive. And likely won’t ever be an issue. I’ll happily eat crow if I’m wrong.
-
I found this interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqqhtJv/04-E19-FEB-F0-C0-4759-BD6-B-59-C609695598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkkWTpB)
Or car crashes.
Then again, if you do get in a car crash today, you might be more likely to die because you will struggle to get medical help, and it would be in a hospital full of COVID cases
Nope plenty of medical help and capacity anywhere within a day’s drive. And likely won’t ever be an issue. I’ll happily eat crow if I’m wrong.
I would think you would be eating dirt if you were wrong.
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
-
I found this interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqqhtJv/04-E19-FEB-F0-C0-4759-BD6-B-59-C609695598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkkWTpB)
Or car crashes.
Then again, if you do get in a car crash today, you might be more likely to die because you will struggle to get medical help, and it would be in a hospital full of COVID cases
Nope plenty of medical help and capacity anywhere within a day’s drive. And likely won’t ever be an issue. I’ll happily eat crow if I’m wrong.
It would be very comforting to know that a trauma center is "within a day's drive".
And if there is no space in a nearby hospital due to Covid, and I drive a day away to get help, all I'd be doing is moving COVID along
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
to understand China you need to think of 300 million americans, rich, poor, etc... then add a billion peasants
no shit their "per capita" emissions are trivial (dubious claim - you are probably only counting CO2 aka plant food) when a billion people there are still farming rice and living hand to mouth
for the 300 million middle class chinese they are disgusting polluters, look up toxic chemicals (you know things other than CO2 which is essential for life) and get back to me
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
to understand China you need to think of 300 million americans, rich, poor, etc... then add a billion peasants
no shit their "per capita" emissions are trivial (dubious claim - you are probably only counting CO2 aka plant food) when a billion people there are still farming rice and living hand to mouth
for the 300 million middle class chinese they are disgusting polluters, look up toxic chemicals (you know things other than CO2 which is essential for life) and get back to me
Oh please. The VMT of the average American citizen is way beyond the middle class of China.
Then if you want to get into "Toxic chemicals", let us say for example there is pollution from a Semiconductor plant or an iPhone factory. How exactly can you put that on "The Chinese" if we have banned or regulated such things out of existence in the US because we don't want those "Toxic chemicals" - but Foxconn only exists because Apple hired them and sells the product to Americans
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
to understand China you need to think of 300 million americans, rich, poor, etc... then add a billion peasants
no shit their "per capita" emissions are trivial (dubious claim - you are probably only counting CO2 aka plant food) when a billion people there are still farming rice and living hand to mouth
for the 300 million middle class chinese they are disgusting polluters, look up toxic chemicals (you know things other than CO2 which is essential for life) and get back to me
Yep, CO2 is good for plants and essential to life. But as the old saying goes: “Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.”
Scientific American, Ask the Experts: Does Rising CO2 Benefit Plants?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ask-the-experts-does-rising-co2-benefit-plants1/
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
to understand China you need to think of 300 million americans, rich, poor, etc... then add a billion peasants
no shit their "per capita" emissions are trivial (dubious claim - you are probably only counting CO2 aka plant food) when a billion people there are still farming rice and living hand to mouth
for the 300 million middle class chinese they are disgusting polluters, look up toxic chemicals (you know things other than CO2 which is essential for life) and get back to me
Yep, CO2 is good for plants and essential to life. But as the old saying goes: “Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.”
Scientific American, Ask the Experts: Does Rising CO2 Benefit Plants?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ask-the-experts-does-rising-co2-benefit-plants1/
thats not really what your little link said
what are you Mr. CO2 apologist? its frankly bizarre how much you white knight for climate change "science"
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
to understand China you need to think of 300 million americans, rich, poor, etc... then add a billion peasants
no shit their "per capita" emissions are trivial (dubious claim - you are probably only counting CO2 aka plant food) when a billion people there are still farming rice and living hand to mouth
for the 300 million middle class chinese they are disgusting polluters, look up toxic chemicals (you know things other than CO2 which is essential for life) and get back to me
Yep, CO2 is good for plants and essential to life. But as the old saying goes: “Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.”
Scientific American, Ask the Experts: Does Rising CO2 Benefit Plants?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ask-the-experts-does-rising-co2-benefit-plants1/
thats not really what your little link said
what are you Mr. CO2 apologist? its frankly bizarre how much you white knight for climate change "science"
Here's another old saying: 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.”
-
I found this interesting.
(https://i.ibb.co/FqqhtJv/04-E19-FEB-F0-C0-4759-BD6-B-59-C609695598.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkkWTpB)
Or car crashes.
Then again, if you do get in a car crash today, you might be more likely to die because you will struggle to get medical help, and it would be in a hospital full of COVID cases
Nope plenty of medical help and capacity anywhere within a day’s drive. And likely won’t ever be an issue. I’ll happily eat crow if I’m wrong.
I would think you would be eating dirt if you were wrong.
Haha
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
Per capita emissions lol.
(https://i.ibb.co/HNxnQYQ/E42-A8635-70-F8-4-DE7-9-F3-E-5-D04391-F093-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M8GMLpL)
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
Per capita emissions lol.
(https://i.ibb.co/HNxnQYQ/E42-A8635-70-F8-4-DE7-9-F3-E-5-D04391-F093-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M8GMLpL)
Breaking down global carbon emissions: Pick your poison…
Annual (2017): China 9.8 billion tons (27%); USA 5.3 billion tons (15%); EU 3.5 billion tons (9.8%)
Per Capita (2017): Saudi Arabia 19.3 tons per capita; Australia 16.9 tons per capita; USA 16.2 tons per capita; for comparison purposes, China 7 tons per capita
Historical: The USA has emitted more CO2 than any other country to date: at around 400 billion tons since 1751 (25% of historical emissions)
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-and-other-greenhouse-gas-emissions
-
Does the climate care where the CO2 comes from? 🥴
-
I left the end of the article out because it’s been covered like a billion times just here on this forum.
And yes China will go back to polluting like a motherfucker when this is over.
And yes you and others are still missing the entire point.
It's really baloney to point at China in terms of "polluting like a motherfucker" - their per capita emissions are trivial compared to ours. If you are going to go whole FOX on us, why don't you just say "the entire rest of the world creates more emissions than the US"
Per capita emissions lol.
(https://i.ibb.co/HNxnQYQ/E42-A8635-70-F8-4-DE7-9-F3-E-5-D04391-F093-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M8GMLpL)
Breaking down global carbon emissions: Pick your poison…
Annual (2017): China 9.8 billion tons (27%); USA 5.3 billion tons (15%); EU 3.5 billion tons (9.8%)
Per Capita (2017): Saudi Arabia 19.3 tons per capita; Australia 16.9 tons per capita; USA 16.2 tons per capita; for comparison purposes, China 7 tons per capita
Historical: The USA has emitted more CO2 than any other country to date: at around 400 billion tons since 1751 (25% of historical emissions)
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-and-other-greenhouse-gas-emissions
global mercury emissions
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2020-01/mercury_from_all_sectors_gma_2018_map.jpg
nitrogen dioxide
https://www.esa.int/Applications/Observing_the_Earth/Copernicus/Sentinel-5P/Nitrogen_dioxide_pollution_mapped
ammonia air pollution
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/satellite-data-detects-hundreds-new-sources-ammonia-pollution-180970967/
we could continue on with CO, voc's, ozone, particulates, heavy metals, etc. and they are all horrible in India, Africa and China
-
Does the climate care where the CO2 comes from? 🥴
No. But it's easier to get someone with X amount of emissions to cut them in half, than it is to get someone with X/2 amount of emissions to cut them in half.
China should just cut the country into six pieces and say "OK, your move USA"
-
China, AOTC on per capita pollution.
Hang a banner.
-
China sucks, but the U.S, EU and other industrialized countries also need to ramp up efforts to reduce carbon emissions. It looks like the world is behind in meeting the emission reduction targets set in the 2015 Paris climate agreement.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/united-nations-climate-report-finds-countries-urgently-need-reduce-emissions
-
China sucks, but the U.S, EU and other industrialized countries also need to ramp up efforts to reduce carbon emissions. It looks like the world is behind in meeting the emission reduction targets set in the 2015 Paris climate agreement.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/united-nations-climate-report-finds-countries-urgently-need-reduce-emissions
We should have nuked those fuckers when we had the chance. Thanks Truman and Eisenhower!
-
China sucks, but the U.S, EU and other industrialized countries also need to ramp up efforts to reduce carbon emissions. It looks like the world is behind in meeting the emission reduction targets set in the 2015 Paris climate agreement.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/united-nations-climate-report-finds-countries-urgently-need-reduce-emissions
We should have nuked those fuckers when we had the chance. Thanks Truman and Eisenhower!
Looks like the locals are getting a little pissed....
https://www.the-sun.com/news/602805/coronavirus-riots-erupt-near-wuhan-as-locals-leave-quarantine-only-to-be-told-they-cant-travel-anywhere-else-in-china/
-
Does the climate care where the CO2 comes from? 🥴
No. But it's easier to get someone with X amount of emissions to cut them in half, than it is to get someone with X/2 amount of emissions to cut them in half.
China should just cut the country into six pieces and say "OK, your move USA"
We’ve got 50 pieces plus Puerto Rico
-
China sucks, but the U.S, EU and other industrialized countries also need to ramp up efforts to reduce carbon emissions. It looks like the world is behind in meeting the emission reduction targets set in the 2015 Paris climate agreement.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/united-nations-climate-report-finds-countries-urgently-need-reduce-emissions
We should have nuked those fuckers when we had the chance. Thanks Truman and Eisenhower!
And then stupid Nixon let a 19-year old hippie ping-pong player thaw our cold war relations with China in the 70s. Just think if the Bamboo Curtain was still in place today; the Wuhan Virus wouldn’t have spread here.
-
Thanks a lot, Forrest Gump
-
China sucks, but the U.S, EU and other industrialized countries also need to ramp up efforts to reduce carbon emissions. It looks like the world is behind in meeting the emission reduction targets set in the 2015 Paris climate agreement.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/united-nations-climate-report-finds-countries-urgently-need-reduce-emissions
We should have nuked those fuckers when we had the chance. Thanks Truman and Eisenhower!
And then stupid Nixon let a 19-year old hippie ping-pong player thaw our cold war relations with China in the 70s. Just think if the Bamboo Curtain was still in place today; the Wuhan Virus wouldn’t have spread here.
Fuckin' Nixon caused the spread of the Virus. Guy is still an assmunch.
-
Does the climate care where the CO2 comes from? 🥴
No. But it's easier to get someone with X amount of emissions to cut them in half, than it is to get someone with X/2 amount of emissions to cut them in half.
China should just cut the country into six pieces and say "OK, your move USA"
We’ve got 50 pieces plus Puerto Rico
Sweet. We are not longer the world leader in COVID cases. Checkmate, Libs!
-
I’d imagine the confirmed cases of COVID-19 in a given nation strongly correlate with the amount of testing being done. That’s good right?
-
I’d imagine the confirmed cases of COVID-19 in a given nation strongly correlate with the amount of testing being done. That’s good right?
It also correlates with the number of people who actually have Covid-19.
China tested lots of people. We haven’t (assuming of course that you believe China’s reported numbers). Korea tested lots of people. We still have more confirmed cases than either of them, and I’d bet our number of actual cases is at least 3x the number of confirmed cases.
-
Probably more than 3x maybe more like 10x
Awhile ago we were doing the per capita thing. Does that only apply to emissions or do we need to take that into account for covid-19 cases?
Maybe national vs per capita cases only matter depending on what side of the argument one is on?
-
Probably more than 3x maybe more like 10x
Awhile ago we were doing the per capita thing. Does that only apply to emissions or do we need to take that into account for covid-19 cases?
Maybe national vs per capita cases only matter depending on what side of the argument one is on?
From the Acadiana Advocate yesterday afternoon.
"Louisiana is second in the country for deaths per capita and third in the country for cases per capita."
Louisiana has tested 3500, 150 have died, 380 on ventilators. La positive test rate is 13%.
By comparison, NJ has tested over 13000 with 160 deaths. NJ positive test rate is at 38%.
If La tested 4x as many people as currently, the death toll is still the same as NJ.
NJ population is essentially twice that of La.
I don't understand the fascination with testing as opposed to preventing transmission.
-
Gotta agree with this. # of fatals is a much more solid number. # tested won't mean much statistically until we get closer to testing all. It does serve to indicate hot spots, trends and mitigation in the interim.
-
And this morning out of NOLA. A woman in her 30's who, according to newspaper headlines, died as a result of coronavirus has had 2 test results come back negative. Test results were not yet available when she passed away.
-
Probably more than 3x maybe more like 10x
Awhile ago we were doing the per capita thing. Does that only apply to emissions or do we need to take that into account for covid-19 cases?
Maybe national vs per capita cases only matter depending on what side of the argument one is on?
I think the fact that some see it as an “argument” is part of the problem in the first place. It’s facts and data.
To me, the whole “confirmed cases is a function of testing” argument is simply an attempt to cast the President in a better light when the number of confirmed cases shoots up. It’s foreshadowing Fox News’ coverage strategy, which will be, “The numbers aren’t shooting up because the disease is out of control, it’s just because we have more tests now.” In reality, it’s both, and anyone who doesn’t acknowledge that because it’s politically useful (on either side) should be ashamed.
-
well Dr. Birx started the whole "confirmed cases is a function of testing thing" so take it up with her
anyone else find it interesting that only 7% of people that get tested wind up testing positive for covid19? pretty much nation wide its this 7% number
-
Probably more than 3x maybe more like 10x
Awhile ago we were doing the per capita thing. Does that only apply to emissions or do we need to take that into account for covid-19 cases?
Maybe national vs per capita cases only matter depending on what side of the argument one is on?
From the Acadiana Advocate yesterday afternoon.
"Louisiana is second in the country for deaths per capita and third in the country for cases per capita."
Louisiana has tested 3500, 150 have died, 380 on ventilators. La positive test rate is 13%.
By comparison, NJ has tested over 13000 with 160 deaths. NJ positive test rate is at 38%.
If La tested 4x as many people as currently, the death toll is still the same as NJ.
NJ population is essentially twice that of La.
I don't understand the fascination with testing as opposed to preventing transmission.
I don't think there is a "fascination" with testing. Early on public health officials and the medical community said we must ramp up testing capacity (and not just in the US) if we want to better understand and slow down the spread of the disease. We were warned by the WHO that the tests are not perfect and that sometimes people who have the disease will be wrongly told they do not. WHO also said there would be a positive correlation between tests performed and cases confirmed. And per capita data (or tests per million people) helps us understand the scope of the testing being conducted.
Dr. Birx recently told NPR the U.S is still prioritizing sick people, symptomatic first responders and people in nursing homes for testing. She said a new test that could speed things up was just granted "emergency-use authorization" by the FDA and will be rolled out soon. It can provide results in under 15 minutes, instead of days. The hope is the new test will allow more widespread testing, which will provide more accurate data on who is getting infected and where.
-
And this morning out of NOLA. A woman in her 30's who, according to newspaper headlines, died as a result of coronavirus has had 2 test results come back negative. Test results were not yet available when she passed away.
If the test results came back negative, how do we know she died of Coronavirus.... n'est pas?
The most important function - my view - of testing is to inform isolation and quarantine. Someone working in a grocery store tests positive, you know to keep them out of work and isolated.
-
Probably more than 3x maybe more like 10x
Awhile ago we were doing the per capita thing. Does that only apply to emissions or do we need to take that into account for covid-19 cases?
Maybe national vs per capita cases only matter depending on what side of the argument one is on?
I think the fact that some see it as an “argument” is part of the problem in the first place. It’s facts and data.
To me, the whole “confirmed cases is a function of testing” argument is simply an attempt to cast the President in a better light when the number of confirmed cases shoots up. It’s foreshadowing Fox News’ coverage strategy, which will be, “The numbers aren’t shooting up because the disease is out of control, it’s just because we have more tests now.” In reality, it’s both, and anyone who doesn’t acknowledge that because it’s politically useful (on either side) should be ashamed.
I have no interest in protecting trump or a Fox News agenda. I don’t consume their media. I came to a conclusion based on what I feel is a common sense notion that during a pandemic new cases are going to skyrocket once massively increased testing is implemented. Especially when the asymptomatic start getting tested. My neighbor across and down the road works in a hospital. He was exposed to a patient with Covid-19 and was asked to self quarantine at home. His wife works at an local equipment manufacturer. Once her husband was quarantined then she and the kids were quarantined to their home and the business sent everyone that may have been around her to work from home. So now he’s been tested as an asymptomatic proxy. That wasn’t happening until recently. People imo really shouldn’t be so focused on confirmed cases so much as percentage of people who actually have serious symptoms, mortality rate, hospitalization rate, etc.
-
And this morning out of NOLA. A woman in her 30's who, according to newspaper headlines, died as a result of coronavirus has had 2 test results come back negative. Test results were not yet available when she passed away.
If the test results came back negative, how do we know she died of Coronavirus.... n'est pas?
The most important function - my view - of testing is to inform isolation and quarantine. Someone working in a grocery store tests positive, you know to keep them out of work and isolated.
[/quote
The newspaper came to the conclusion that she died of coronavirus.
Right, someone tests positive and they should be quarantined. And backtrack that person's contacts, and their contacts etc for further quarantine possibilities. Until adequate test kits are available, we don't need to test everybody.
-
Probably more than 3x maybe more like 10x
Awhile ago we were doing the per capita thing. Does that only apply to emissions or do we need to take that into account for covid-19 cases?
Maybe national vs per capita cases only matter depending on what side of the argument one is on?
I think the fact that some see it as an “argument” is part of the problem in the first place. It’s facts and data.
To me, the whole “confirmed cases is a function of testing” argument is simply an attempt to cast the President in a better light when the number of confirmed cases shoots up. It’s foreshadowing Fox News’ coverage strategy, which will be, “The numbers aren’t shooting up because the disease is out of control, it’s just because we have more tests now.” In reality, it’s both, and anyone who doesn’t acknowledge that because it’s politically useful (on either side) should be ashamed.
I have no interest in protecting trump or a Fox News agenda. I don’t consume their media. I came to a conclusion based on what I feel is a common sense notion that during a pandemic new cases are going to skyrocket once massively increased testing is implemented. Especially when the asymptomatic start getting tested. My neighbor across and down the road works in a hospital. He was exposed to a patient with Covid-19 and was asked to self quarantine at home. His wife works at an local equipment manufacturer. Once her husband was quarantined then she and the kids were quarantined to their home and the business sent everyone that may have been around her to work from home. So now he’s been tested as an asymptomatic proxy. That wasn’t happening until recently. People imo really shouldn’t be so focused on confirmed cases so much as percentage of people who actually have serious symptoms, mortality rate, hospitalization rate, etc.
I think your conclusion is correct, I’m just explaining how the right wing media is going to cast it. They are going to say that the increased number of cases is solely a result of increased testing, and that the number of cases isn’t increasing very fast.
-
Probably more than 3x maybe more like 10x
Awhile ago we were doing the per capita thing. Does that only apply to emissions or do we need to take that into account for covid-19 cases?
Maybe national vs per capita cases only matter depending on what side of the argument one is on?
From the Acadiana Advocate yesterday afternoon.
"Louisiana is second in the country for deaths per capita and third in the country for cases per capita."
Louisiana has tested 3500, 150 have died, 380 on ventilators. La positive test rate is 13%.
By comparison, NJ has tested over 13000 with 160 deaths. NJ positive test rate is at 38%.
If La tested 4x as many people as currently, the death toll is still the same as NJ.
NJ population is essentially twice that of La.
I don't understand the fascination with testing as opposed to preventing transmission.
I don't think there is a "fascination" with testing. Early on public health officials and the medical community said we must ramp up testing capacity (and not just in the US) if we want to better understand and slow down the spread of the disease. We were warned by the WHO that the tests are not perfect and that sometimes people who have the disease will be wrongly told they do not. WHO also said there would be a positive correlation between tests performed and cases confirmed. And per capita data (or tests per million people) helps us understand the scope of the testing being conducted.
Dr. Birx recently told NPR the U.S is still prioritizing sick people, symptomatic first responders and people in nursing homes for testing. She said a new test that could speed things up was just granted "emergency-use authorization" by the FDA and will be rolled out soon. It can provide results in under 15 minutes, instead of days. The hope is the new test will allow more widespread testing, which will provide more accurate data on who is getting infected and where.
To clarify, public health officials and the medical community did say initially that we needed testing kits. We did, and we still do.
But it seems to me that the media picked up on that and ran with it. Instead of promoting mitigation in the hopes of minimizing transmission, the focus was that there aren't enough tests, we need more tests. Early on, the medical community was also saying that if you think you've been exposed, then stay home. But people were seeking tests, and the 93% negative test rates were using much needed test kits, ppe, and resources.
Data analysis is essential, but sufficient data is needed. I just don't know how useful the data from 1-2 weeks ago is.
Getting NYC, Washington, Detroit and NOLA under control are first priority. Hopefully we'll have the data to help control the rest of the country when it's their turn.
There's no immunity, no cure, and no vaccine. I bought into "stay home" early.
-
So, who here is going to go after that "free" CARES Act $$$$$?
-
To clarify, public health officials and the medical community did say initially that we needed testing kits. We did, and we still do.
But it seems to me that the media picked up on that and ran with it. Instead of promoting mitigation in the hopes of minimizing transmission, the focus was that there aren't enough tests, we need more tests. Early on, the medical community was also saying that if you think you've been exposed, then stay home. But people were seeking tests, and the 93% negative test rates were using much needed test kits, ppe, and resources.
Data analysis is essential, but sufficient data is needed. I just don't know how useful the data from 1-2 weeks ago is.
Getting NYC, Washington, Detroit and NOLA under control are first priority. Hopefully we'll have the data to help control the rest of the country when it's their turn.
There's no immunity, no cure, and no vaccine. I bought into "stay home" early.
Nobody bought into "stay home" as fast as Crazy Nancy Pelosi's home district and extended area. And our curve is flattening.
The areas that are gonna fare worse long term are the ones who didn't worry about testing OR mitigation. Who just decided it was a hoax, or "just the flu" and grasped to every straw to avoid shutting things down. Things are getting shut down anyway after the horse is out of the barn.
Case loads are worst in NYC, Washington, and Santa Clara County is somewhat of a hot spot despite shutting the county down - because those places are international hubs where the disease entered the country. But it's gonna move to everywhere, and I fear these less aggressive areas are gonna have some pretty bad fallout. Rural communities like where my in-laws are, there is only one grocery store (Walmart of course) in a huge radius, and nobody has altered their shopping patterns. We haven't gone out for more groceries in over 2 weeks - we're definitely high level adopters but the median person is still shutting it down pretty hard.
-
So, who here is going to go after that "free" CARES Act $$$$$?
"go after" - I haven't been following, do you have to apply or are they just mailing checks to taxpayers?
Dunno about you but while this is a pain in the tuckus I've saved a boatload of money. Just start with cancelling my trip to Sacramento to watch the NCAAs, and we haven't eaten out, Starbucks, anything, for 3 weeks. We are watching our food stores very carefully so no leftovers ended up in the bin. Certainly hasn't matched the stock market losses though :O - Why didn't Kelly tip her old roomie off!
-
So, who here is going to go after that "free" CARES Act $$$$$?
"go after" - I haven't been following, do you have to apply or are they just mailing checks to taxpayers?
Dunno about you but while this is a pain in the tuckus I've saved a boatload of money. Just start with cancelling my trip to Sacramento to watch the NCAAs, and we haven't eaten out, Starbucks, anything, for 3 weeks. We are watching our food stores very carefully so no leftovers ended up in the bin. Certainly hasn't matched the stock market losses though :O - Why didn't Kelly tip her old roomie off!
The CARES Act establishes the Paycheck Protection Program, which allows for SBA loan forgiveness if properly used for payroll, mortgages, rent, and utilities, as well as the Economic Stabilzation Fund, for the airlines and other businesses.
-
I started 17 shell companies just before this hit cha ching
-
I started 17 shell companies just before this hit cha ching
Hope they were operating before 2/15. Also, they need to provide certain paid COVID-19 sick and family and medical leave effective today to enployees.
-
I started 17 shell companies just before this hit cha ching
Hope they were operating before 2/15. Also, they need to provide certain paid COVID-19 sick and family and medical leave effective today to enployees.
I also hired CT’s accountant.
-
So, you've hired people too.
-
So, you've hired people too.
Quite a few in fact. But nowhere near the caliber of people CT hires I’m sure.
-
I started 17 shell companies just before this hit cha ching
Hope they were operating before 2/15. Also, they need to provide certain paid COVID-19 sick and family and medical leave effective today to enployees.
I also hired CT’s accountant.
Regulations only exist to be sidestepped.
-
I started 17 shell companies just before this hit cha ching
Hope they were operating before 2/15. Also, they need to provide certain paid COVID-19 sick and family and medical leave effective today to enployees.
I also hired CT’s accountant.
Regulations only exist to be sidestepped.
If you want to win you gotta play in the gray area
-
On a scale from 0 to 10 where 10 is definitely and 0 is impossible, how would you rate the likelihood that CT has paid for sex?
-
So, you've hired people too.
Quite a few in fact. But nowhere near the caliber of people CT hires I’m sure.
But did you let anyone go only after you were sure you had a better replacement picked out?
-
I started 17 shell companies just before this hit cha ching
Hope they were operating before 2/15. Also, they need to provide certain paid COVID-19 sick and family and medical leave effective today to enployees.
I also hired CT’s accountant.
That you remember what he posted is an indictment of you, not CT!
-
On a scale from 0 to 10 where 10 is definitely and 0 is impossible, how would you rate the likelihood that CT has paid for sex?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/lvlLuc2zhi39C/giphy.gif)
-
I started 17 shell companies just before this hit cha ching
Hope they were operating before 2/15. Also, they need to provide certain paid COVID-19 sick and family and medical leave effective today to enployees.
I also hired CT’s accountant.
That you remember what he posted is an indictment of you, not CT!
So, you've hired people too.
Quite a few in fact. But nowhere near the caliber of people CT hires I’m sure.
But did you let anyone go only after you were sure you had a better replacement picked out?
Pure gold
-
On a scale from 0 to 10 where 10 is definitely and 0 is impossible, how would you rate the likelihood that CT has paid for sex?
Do contested divorces w/ alimony count?
-
And the mortality rate is hovering around 1% and will continue to drop
The US, just yesterday, hit 35k cumulative cases / 325M population, so we're roughly at the same per capita *known* infection rate, so by that metric we're about ~2 weeks behind northern Italy if there's any analogous spread here.
Italy is now at 64k confirmed w/ 6k deaths. If the US has similar linear/multiple expansion, in 2 weeks we're looking at 245,000 cases.
We broke 245k yesterday, ~9 days after I posted this, so nationally at least we're accelerating faster than Italy was during their run-up, and we still have a ton of symptomatic people not getting tests, which means we also have no idea how many asymptomatic people are floating around still. Hopefully we're peaking now in the cities that went on lockdown 2 weeks ago but places like Georgia and Florida...yeesh.
-
Are we accelerating faster or just testing more?
-
I think it’s because we are testing more now, but wow, Florida and Georgia are two stupid fucking State’s that really messed up their handling of this virus. It’s reported that the Georgia Governor didn’t know the virus could be transmitted without a person showing symptoms. Like WTF?! And the handling of the beaches in Florida is ridiculous.
-
I think it’s because we are testing more now, but wow, Florida and Georgia are two stupid fucking State’s that really messed up their handling of this virus. It’s reported that the Georgia Governor didn’t know the virus could be transmitted without a person showing symptoms. Like WTF?! And the handling of the beaches in Florida is ridiculous.
It's not "reported" - he actually said that, in a press conference, plenty of videos of it online.
Now - did he not know this fact, or was he willfully lying, it's unclear. Either way, it's brutal imcompetence.
We'll note that in the 2018 blue wave, two states resisted that wave - Florida and Georgia by electing Brian Kemp and Ron DeSantis as Governors. "Resisted" of course including a lot of probable voter suppression. At least I hope it was voter suppression because the alternative is that the people of Florida and Georgia as a whole thought that electing these two was a good idea.
-
I'm tempted to say "Darwin at work" but the potential collateral damage is too broad to paint with one brush. It really stinks that so many folks can get seriously ill just because some dolts get their information solely from highly suspect sources. Hang another medal.....
-
The irony is the CDC is headquartered in Atlanta. But, the CDC is big government, pointy-headed experts and deep state.
Just like Trump, the reality will hit the Georgia Governor hard.
-
The Ga governor was referring to a just released CDC report of a pre-symptomatic transmission study done in Singapore. Singapore has been doing contact tracing for a while. This study discusses the possibility of transmission before symptoms occur in a person who becomes symptomatic. Asymptomatic, pre-symptomatic and symptomatic are different.
The asymptomatic transmission that has been accepted involves the transmission from individuals who do not show symptoms. It appears that there has been an assumption that individuals who become symptomatic are not contagious until symptomatic.
This study, with a press release of April 1, addresses the possibility of pre-symptomatic transmission and shows that transmission can occur up to 48 hours before symptoms show.
I dont see anything wrong with what the governor said.
"If Georgia’s Brian Kemp is a vote suppressor, he’s the least successful vote suppressor alive. Turnout in Georgia was immense. In the previous gubernatorial election, Republican Nathan Deal won with 1.3 million votes. In November, Abrams lost with 1.9 million votes. There were roughly 2.5 million total votes cast in 2014. In 2018, more than 3.9 million Georgians voted. That almost matches the total votes cast for president in 2016.
According to FiveThirtyEight, 55 percent of eligible Georgians voted, a whopping 21-point increase over the 1982–2014 midterm average. Moreover, according to preliminary exit polls, a record-high 40 percent of Georgia’s electorate was nonwhite. Georgia’s 55 percent turnout exceeded the national average of 47 percent."
National Review, Nov 19, 2018.
Also, the Fla Democratic gubernatorial candidate has withdrawn from politics. I'll leave it at that.
Fla allowing spring break was not the best move. Either was the Mardi Gras.
-
The Ga governor was referring to a just released CDC report of a pre-symptomatic transmission study done in Singapore. Singapore has been doing contact tracing for a while. This study discusses the possibility of transmission before symptoms occur in a person who becomes symptomatic. Asymptomatic, pre-symptomatic and symptomatic are different.
The asymptomatic transmission that has been accepted involves the transmission from individuals who do not show symptoms. It appears that there has been an assumption that individuals who become symptomatic are not contagious until symptomatic.
This study, with a press release of April 1, addresses the possibility of pre-symptomatic transmission and shows that transmission can occur up to 48 hours before symptoms show.
I dont see anything wrong with what the governor said.
"If Georgia’s Brian Kemp is a vote suppressor, he’s the least successful vote suppressor alive. Turnout in Georgia was immense. In the previous gubernatorial election, Republican Nathan Deal won with 1.3 million votes. In November, Abrams lost with 1.9 million votes. There were roughly 2.5 million total votes cast in 2014. In 2018, more than 3.9 million Georgians voted. That almost matches the total votes cast for president in 2016.
According to FiveThirtyEight, 55 percent of eligible Georgians voted, a whopping 21-point increase over the 1982–2014 midterm average. Moreover, according to preliminary exit polls, a record-high 40 percent of Georgia’s electorate was nonwhite. Georgia’s 55 percent turnout exceeded the national average of 47 percent."
National Review, Nov 19, 2018.
Also, the Fla Democratic gubernatorial candidate has withdrawn from politics. I'll leave it at that.
Fla allowing spring break was not the best move. Either was the Mardi Gras.
Let's give Bannon, Tom Cotton, and Tucker Carlson credit for.being smarter than a lot of people who run states.....
-
On Brian Kemp, he did say presymptomatic versus asymptomatic, but it might not matter. In politics, impressions trump intention.
-
So, Kemp cites a new number that the CDC placed on asymptomatic cases -- that the number of people who have the coronavirus but are asymptomatic may be as high as 25 percent. The problem is that the idea that those people were transmitting the virus isn’t new at all.
The CDC and public health officials around the world started emphasizing that asymptomatic people are transmitting the coronavirus weeks and even months ago. In fact, Anthony Fauci was talking about asymptomatic transmission more than two months ago.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/press-briefing-members-presidents-coronavirus-task-force/
The CDC, which is headquartered in Atlanta, issued guidance as early as March 1, stating that asymptomatic people could indeed spread the coronavirus, even as it emphasized that people with symptoms were more likely to be contagious.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fprepare%2Ftransmission.html
Deborah Birx said last month that young people in particular could be spreading the virus without knowing. “Until you really understand how many people are asymptomatic and asymptomatically passing the virus on, we think it’s better for the entire American public to know that the risk of serious illness may be low, but they could be potentially spreading the virus to others,” Birx said. She added, “That’s why we’re asking every American to take personal responsibility to prevent that spread.”
https://www.theeagle.com/opinion/columnists/georgia-gov-brian-kemp-who-resisted-strict-coronavirus-measures-says-he-just-learned-it-transmits/article_154db424-5651-5ad3-b109-21aed74ad621.html
For Kemp to say he just learned “that this virus is now transmitting before people see signs” is ludicrous. The real problem for Kemp was that like some other governors around the country he was resisting increased calls from local officials to issue a statewide shelter-at-home order.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/01/states-like-florida-lag-coronavirus-response-white-house-declines-push-harder/
Kemp’s just another example of a politician attempting to BS his way out of extremely poor decision making, feign ignorance when in fact the information was fairly common knowledge months earlier.
-
I think you're overestimating Kemp's intelligence. I think it's perfectly possible that he's just that stupid.
-
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
-
I think you're overestimating Kemp's intelligence. I think it's perfectly possible that he's just that stupid.
Ockham's Razor, def.
I think the acceleration rate is both testing more and natural exposure disease progression. It's very hard to rule out the latter when it is essentially what was predicted by the models. We still have a testing lag but given that we're now 2 weeks post-shit-hitting that new cases are organic disease transmission and not just lagging on test results. We'll see what happens in the next week or two.
Anecdotally, it seems to not be hitting warmer/drier places as hard, so hopefully it will thaw and we can build immunity over the summer while the burden on ERs and ICUs is eased. But JFC Florida.
-
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hell-coming-sold-national-security-163655629.html
Custard, apparently people were listening to this person...
-
I think you're overestimating Kemp's intelligence. I think it's perfectly possible that he's just that stupid.
Ockham's Razor, def.
I think the acceleration rate is both testing more and natural exposure disease progression. It's very hard to rule out the latter when it is essentially what was predicted by the models. We still have a testing lag but given that we're now 2 weeks post-shit-hitting that new cases are organic disease transmission and not just lagging on test results. We'll see what happens in the next week or two.
Anecdotally, it seems to not be hitting warmer/drier places as hard, so hopefully it will thaw and we can build immunity over the summer while the burden on ERs and ICUs is eased. But JFC Florida.
You might want to keep an eye on this study:
Utah scientists awarded grant to study coronavirus amid rising number of Utah cases
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/3/19/21186880/u-scientists-awarded-grant-study-coronavirus-covid19-utahns-numbers
And here's an interesting proposal for "crushing" the curve. It would require quarantining our Idiot-in-Chief (and Jared) indefinitely and appointing a czar to lead the country's coronavirus response efforts.
Instead of just flattening the COVID-19 curve, can we 'crush' it?
https://www.livescience.com/can-covid-19-be-crushed.html
-
Friday.
"Mayor Bill de Blasio rejected WNYC host Brian Lehrer’s claim that the U.S. knew “weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease,” and instead suggested this fact was only discovered “in the last 48 hours.”
“The city’s position used to be that healthy people don’t need masks because they’re not very effective at preventing the virus from coming in, they’re mostly from keeping you from spreading it, so explain this new recommendation,” Lehrer said.
“Exactly, it’s still the fundamental truth, so we have, you know, a renowned health department here in New York City… only in the last really 48 hours or so do they feel they’ve seen evidence around the world, particularly a new study coming out of Singapore, that shows more evidence that this disease can be spread by asymptomatic people,” de Blasio responded.
When Lehrer asked, “Didn’t we know weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease?” The mayor insisted we did not.
“No, the fact is I’ve been at so many press conferences where our top doctors for New York City addressed this and they said ‘we just didn’t have evidence from all the global medical community that was studying this issue,” de Blasio told Lehrer. “There was suspicion, but there was not evidence.”
-
Friday.
"Mayor Bill de Blasio rejected WNYC host Brian Lehrer’s claim that the U.S. knew “weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease,” and instead suggested this fact was only discovered “in the last 48 hours.”
“The city’s position used to be that healthy people don’t need masks because they’re not very effective at preventing the virus from coming in, they’re mostly from keeping you from spreading it, so explain this new recommendation,” Lehrer said.
“Exactly, it’s still the fundamental truth, so we have, you know, a renowned health department here in New York City… only in the last really 48 hours or so do they feel they’ve seen evidence around the world, particularly a new study coming out of Singapore, that shows more evidence that this disease can be spread by asymptomatic people,” de Blasio responded.
When Lehrer asked, “Didn’t we know weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease?” The mayor insisted we did not.
“No, the fact is I’ve been at so many press conferences where our top doctors for New York City addressed this and they said ‘we just didn’t have evidence from all the global medical community that was studying this issue,” de Blasio told Lehrer. “There was suspicion, but there was not evidence.”
Mn for the win!
-
“Lest you think coronavirus stupidity is just a Republican problem…”
https://mashviral.com/de-blasio-officials-have-learned-of-the-asymmetric-covid-19-transmission/
“Lehrer asked, ‘Didn’t we know weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this?’
The mayor replied, ‘No, the fact is that I attended so many press conferences where our best New York doctors talked about it and they said,’ We just didn’t have any evidence of the entire global medical community that was studying this problem. There were suspicions, but there was no evidence. ‘
But this is not true. Dr. Anthony Fauci of the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases and Dr. Robert Redfield of the Centers for Disease Control have been saying for months that asymptomatic carriers can spread the disease. As Fauci said at a January 31 task force meeting, ‘You know that at the beginning we didn’t know if there was an asymptomatic infection, which would make it a much larger epidemic than what we see. Now we know for sure that there are. It was not clear if an asymptomatic person could pass it on to someone while he was asymptomatic. Now we know from a recent report from Germany that this is absolutely the case. ‘
The fact is that the mayor of Blasio has been behind the science for weeks now, even going to his YMCA to train when officials called everyone to social distancing. And in the early days of the virus’s arrival in the United States, de Blasio constantly downplayed the severity and claimed that the virus was ‘contained’.”
-
Friday.
"Mayor Bill de Blasio rejected WNYC host Brian Lehrer’s claim that the U.S. knew “weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease,” and instead suggested this fact was only discovered “in the last 48 hours.”
“The city’s position used to be that healthy people don’t need masks because they’re not very effective at preventing the virus from coming in, they’re mostly from keeping you from spreading it, so explain this new recommendation,” Lehrer said.
“Exactly, it’s still the fundamental truth, so we have, you know, a renowned health department here in New York City… only in the last really 48 hours or so do they feel they’ve seen evidence around the world, particularly a new study coming out of Singapore, that shows more evidence that this disease can be spread by asymptomatic people,” de Blasio responded.
When Lehrer asked, “Didn’t we know weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease?” The mayor insisted we did not.
“No, the fact is I’ve been at so many press conferences where our top doctors for New York City addressed this and they said ‘we just didn’t have evidence from all the global medical community that was studying this issue,” de Blasio told Lehrer. “There was suspicion, but there was not evidence.”
I thought he was parsing asymptomatic and presymptomatic?
Now, it's de Blasio is an idiot too?
-
https://youtu.be/OxOJ7hh3H-I
-
Remember Katrina? Republicans have generally been on the wrong side of public health and disaster response issues for quite a while. We became too biased against the federal government (to the point of sabotaging it) and have tended to think free markets can fix everything.
"the national stockpile actually is intended for states' use, which was clearly explained on the government's own website -- until the language was changed, without explanation, hours after Kushner provided his inaccurate description."
"On Thursday, the Navy officer running FEMA's supply chain task force said that he was mainly focused on ensuring the flow of the gear to the commercial market -- rather than mandating it be allocated to states and localities based on need."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kushner-stockpile-hhs-website-changed-echo-comments-federal/story?id=69936411&fbclid=IwAR2cHUGVqjd7OicMDQ8pjZT2GM2y3cpHbTeto7_e2HOPVRjSrIOjTls-JpA
-
There's a light at the end of the tunnel.
Next question please.
How can you say there's a light at the end of the tunnel when Fauci says it's dark in the tunnel ?
Some serious journalism going on.
-
Remember Katrina? Republicans have generally been on the wrong side of public health and disaster response issues for quite a while. We became too biased against the federal government (to the point of sabotaging it) and have tended to think free markets can fix everything.
"the national stockpile actually is intended for states' use, which was clearly explained on the government's own website -- until the language was changed, without explanation, hours after Kushner provided his inaccurate description."
"On Thursday, the Navy officer running FEMA's supply chain task force said that he was mainly focused on ensuring the flow of the gear to the commercial market -- rather than mandating it be allocated to states and localities based on need."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kushner-stockpile-hhs-website-changed-echo-comments-federal/story?id=69936411&fbclid=IwAR2cHUGVqjd7OicMDQ8pjZT2GM2y3cpHbTeto7_e2HOPVRjSrIOjTls-JpA
How does " support their response efforts, " come to mean " actually is intended for " ?
Maybe changing the wording to "supplement" would help to clarify that the state's have some obligation for their stockpile also ?
-
Remember Katrina? Republicans have generally been on the wrong side of public health and disaster response issues for quite a while. We became too biased against the federal government (to the point of sabotaging it) and have tended to think free markets can fix everything.
"the national stockpile actually is intended for states' use, which was clearly explained on the government's own website -- until the language was changed, without explanation, hours after Kushner provided his inaccurate description."
"On Thursday, the Navy officer running FEMA's supply chain task force said that he was mainly focused on ensuring the flow of the gear to the commercial market -- rather than mandating it be allocated to states and localities based on need."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kushner-stockpile-hhs-website-changed-echo-comments-federal/story?id=69936411&fbclid=IwAR2cHUGVqjd7OicMDQ8pjZT2GM2y3cpHbTeto7_e2HOPVRjSrIOjTls-JpA
How does " support their response efforts, " come to mean " actually is intended for " ?
Maybe changing the wording to "supplement" would help to clarify that the state's have some obligation for their stockpile also ?
-
States do have responsibility in this but it all flows from the top for a national crisis. Tha for t's why there's a FEMA, CDC, DOD, etc... Leadership isi ncumbent on the feds for certain times, like the present.
Don't need no carnival barker selling rheumatiz medicine. Does anyone seriously think this guy can land the plane?
-
If I had to choose between A:snake oil and B:dead, I think I would go with A.
-
The Ga governor was referring to a just released CDC report of a pre-symptomatic transmission study done in Singapore. Singapore has been doing contact tracing for a while. This study discusses the possibility of transmission before symptoms occur in a person who becomes symptomatic. Asymptomatic, pre-symptomatic and symptomatic are different.
The asymptomatic transmission that has been accepted involves the transmission from individuals who do not show symptoms. It appears that there has been an assumption that individuals who become symptomatic are not contagious until symptomatic.
This study, with a press release of April 1, addresses the possibility of pre-symptomatic transmission and shows that transmission can occur up to 48 hours before symptoms show.
I dont see anything wrong with what the governor said.
"If Georgia’s Brian Kemp is a vote suppressor, he’s the least successful vote suppressor alive. Turnout in Georgia was immense. In the previous gubernatorial election, Republican Nathan Deal won with 1.3 million votes. In November, Abrams lost with 1.9 million votes. There were roughly 2.5 million total votes cast in 2014. In 2018, more than 3.9 million Georgians voted. That almost matches the total votes cast for president in 2016.
According to FiveThirtyEight, 55 percent of eligible Georgians voted, a whopping 21-point increase over the 1982–2014 midterm average. Moreover, according to preliminary exit polls, a record-high 40 percent of Georgia’s electorate was nonwhite. Georgia’s 55 percent turnout exceeded the national average of 47 percent."
National Review, Nov 19, 2018.
Also, the Fla Democratic gubernatorial candidate has withdrawn from politics. I'll leave it at that.
Fla allowing spring break was not the best move. Either was the Mardi Gras.
What a stinking heap of dung.
“that this virus is now transmitting before people see signs”
That would include people who *never* see signs - who you include as transmissible above.
His statement is dumb, he's dumb. "Fla allowing spring break was not the best move". Not sure what you mean by "allowing spring break" but Kemp re-opened Georgia beaches, including overriding local governments who closed their own beaches. He's a turd blossom.
Newsom clamped down early and hard - and our curve is flattening. Same with Inslee, same with DeWine. Cuomo is all over the TV but he should get little credit because he was 2 weeks behind us and it shows.
-
Friday.
"Mayor Bill de Blasio rejected WNYC host Brian Lehrer’s claim that the U.S. knew “weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease,” and instead suggested this fact was only discovered “in the last 48 hours.”
“The city’s position used to be that healthy people don’t need masks because they’re not very effective at preventing the virus from coming in, they’re mostly from keeping you from spreading it, so explain this new recommendation,” Lehrer said.
“Exactly, it’s still the fundamental truth, so we have, you know, a renowned health department here in New York City… only in the last really 48 hours or so do they feel they’ve seen evidence around the world, particularly a new study coming out of Singapore, that shows more evidence that this disease can be spread by asymptomatic people,” de Blasio responded.
When Lehrer asked, “Didn’t we know weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease?” The mayor insisted we did not.
“No, the fact is I’ve been at so many press conferences where our top doctors for New York City addressed this and they said ‘we just didn’t have evidence from all the global medical community that was studying this issue,” de Blasio told Lehrer. “There was suspicion, but there was not evidence.”
DeBlasio got zero support in the Democratic primary for a reason. That reason is that he's an idiot.
-
If I had to choose between A:snake oil and B:dead, I think I would go with A.
Snake oil - n - a substance with no real medicinal value sold as a remedy for all diseases.
If you are dead without snake oil, you're dead with it, just the same.
-
Friday.
"Mayor Bill de Blasio rejected WNYC host Brian Lehrer’s claim that the U.S. knew “weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease,” and instead suggested this fact was only discovered “in the last 48 hours.”
“The city’s position used to be that healthy people don’t need masks because they’re not very effective at preventing the virus from coming in, they’re mostly from keeping you from spreading it, so explain this new recommendation,” Lehrer said.
“Exactly, it’s still the fundamental truth, so we have, you know, a renowned health department here in New York City… only in the last really 48 hours or so do they feel they’ve seen evidence around the world, particularly a new study coming out of Singapore, that shows more evidence that this disease can be spread by asymptomatic people,” de Blasio responded.
When Lehrer asked, “Didn’t we know weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease?” The mayor insisted we did not.
“No, the fact is I’ve been at so many press conferences where our top doctors for New York City addressed this and they said ‘we just didn’t have evidence from all the global medical community that was studying this issue,” de Blasio told Lehrer. “There was suspicion, but there was not evidence.”
DeBlasio got zero support in the Democratic primary for a reason. That reason is that he's an idiot.
Kemp and DeBlasio: 'the CDC released results within the last 48 hours of a study done in Singapore that is showing that pre-symptomatic people may be contagious up to 48 hours before symptoms show. We didnt know that before, and we should be more aggressive in our mitigation.'
Lehrer and whomever felt they needed to be the first to roast Kemp: 'we don't want to hear about no stinking study.'
Whether or not Kemp and DeBlasio are idiots is a separate matter, and I won't argue that they arent.
-
Friday.
"Mayor Bill de Blasio rejected WNYC host Brian Lehrer’s claim that the U.S. knew “weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease,” and instead suggested this fact was only discovered “in the last 48 hours.”
“The city’s position used to be that healthy people don’t need masks because they’re not very effective at preventing the virus from coming in, they’re mostly from keeping you from spreading it, so explain this new recommendation,” Lehrer said.
“Exactly, it’s still the fundamental truth, so we have, you know, a renowned health department here in New York City… only in the last really 48 hours or so do they feel they’ve seen evidence around the world, particularly a new study coming out of Singapore, that shows more evidence that this disease can be spread by asymptomatic people,” de Blasio responded.
When Lehrer asked, “Didn’t we know weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease?” The mayor insisted we did not.
“No, the fact is I’ve been at so many press conferences where our top doctors for New York City addressed this and they said ‘we just didn’t have evidence from all the global medical community that was studying this issue,” de Blasio told Lehrer. “There was suspicion, but there was not evidence.”
DeBlasio got zero support in the Democratic primary for a reason. That reason is that he's an idiot.
Kemp and DeBlasio: 'the CDC released results within the last 48 hours of a study done in Singapore that is showing that pre-symptomatic people may be contagious up to 48 hours before symptoms show. We didnt know that before, and we should be more aggressive in our mitigation.'
Lehrer and whomever felt they needed to be the first to roast Kemp: 'we don't want to hear about no stinking study.'
Whether or not Kemp and DeBlasio are idiots is a separate matter, and I won't argue that they arent.
DeBlasio has been getting roasted pretty heavily. And he's just a Mayor, being overridden by his Governor, who hasn't done the sort of job that Newsom, Inslee, Polis, DeWine have, but he's done a decent job.
Because in the end, NYC is on lockdown and Georgia just re-opened the beaches. If Kemp gets more scorn than DeBlasio, it's for a reason. He's been in the bottom 5% on this issue, across the board.
-
Friday.
"Mayor Bill de Blasio rejected WNYC host Brian Lehrer’s claim that the U.S. knew “weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease,” and instead suggested this fact was only discovered “in the last 48 hours.”
“The city’s position used to be that healthy people don’t need masks because they’re not very effective at preventing the virus from coming in, they’re mostly from keeping you from spreading it, so explain this new recommendation,” Lehrer said.
“Exactly, it’s still the fundamental truth, so we have, you know, a renowned health department here in New York City… only in the last really 48 hours or so do they feel they’ve seen evidence around the world, particularly a new study coming out of Singapore, that shows more evidence that this disease can be spread by asymptomatic people,” de Blasio responded.
When Lehrer asked, “Didn’t we know weeks and months ago that asymptomatic people can spread this disease?” The mayor insisted we did not.
“No, the fact is I’ve been at so many press conferences where our top doctors for New York City addressed this and they said ‘we just didn’t have evidence from all the global medical community that was studying this issue,” de Blasio told Lehrer. “There was suspicion, but there was not evidence.”
DeBlasio got zero support in the Democratic primary for a reason. That reason is that he's an idiot.
Kemp and DeBlasio: 'the CDC released results within the last 48 hours of a study done in Singapore that is showing that pre-symptomatic people may be contagious up to 48 hours before symptoms show. We didnt know that before, and we should be more aggressive in our mitigation.'
Lehrer and whomever felt they needed to be the first to roast Kemp: 'we don't want to hear about no stinking study.'
Whether or not Kemp and DeBlasio are idiots is a separate matter, and I won't argue that they arent.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/20/coronavirus-in-ny-cuomo-orders-lockdown-shuts-down-non-essential-businesses/
March 22 - New York - State - locked down.
April 3 - Georgia "locked down" not including beaches or churches.
-
What person makes it to 40 and beyond with any type of decent education and doesn't learn at some point that viruses can be transmitted asymptomatically? It isn't like this virus installed some version 2.0 update.
-
WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
He cut taxes; which corporations used to buy back their own stock. He conflated current quarterly GDP growth with annualized Obama era GDP growth; current U-3 unemployment with Obama era U-6 and labor participation. He exaggerated the reshoring of manufacturing jobs. The CAPE ratio was at 32 and rising before the covid-19 mess hit. Plus deficits were off the chart in supposedly a perfect economy, the best economy ever.
Trump's initial response was to call the pandemic a hoax. Now he blames Democrats, China, the state governors, the WHO, etc for his own missteps. We have a leader who apparently likes to take credit and shift blame; who delegates responsibility but not authority. Meanwhile, his big money backers tend to always see big government as the problem and think free markets can fix everything. I think George W Bush learned his lesson from Katrina. Sadly, some Republicans think Obama was actually responsible for the Katrina response. It appears others seriously think disaster response is primarily up to the private sector and the respective states or territories. Puerto Rico anyone? So what we got was another sluggish, semi-coherent response with a lot of finger pointing at others.
Trump Apologists:
"When Trump blocked all travel from China; Biden, Pelosi, and the liberal media called him a racist."
"The Democrats held up the covid-19 relief package by trying to add abortion funding and aid to Iran."
-
WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
He cut taxes; which corporations used to buy back their own stock. He conflated current quarterly GDP growth with annualized Obama era GDP growth; current U-3 unemployment with Obama era U-6 and labor participation. He exaggerated the reshoring of manufacturing jobs. The CAPE ratio was at 32 and rising before the covid-19 mess hit. Plus deficits were off the chart in supposedly a perfect economy, the best economy ever.
Trump's initial response was to call the pandemic a hoax. Now he blames Democrats, China, the state governors, the WHO, etc for his own missteps. We have a leader who apparently likes to take credit and shift blame; who delegates responsibility but not authority. Meanwhile, his big money backers tend to always see big government as the problem and think free markets can fix everything. I think George W Bush learned his lesson from Katrina. Sadly, some Republicans think Obama was actually responsible for the Katrina response. It appears others seriously think disaster response is primarily up to the private sector and the respective states or territories. Puerto Rico anyone? So what we got was another sluggish, semi-coherent response with a lot of finger pointing at others.
Trump Apologists:
"When Trump blocked all travel from China; Biden, Pelosi, and the liberal media called him a racist."
"The Democrats held up the covid-19 relief package by trying to add abortion funding and aid to Iran."
Let's put it this way. There are protestors in Lansing Michigan, protesting the stay at home order and waving their Trump flags
-
WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
He cut taxes; which corporations used to buy back their own stock. He conflated current quarterly GDP growth with annualized Obama era GDP growth; current U-3 unemployment with Obama era U-6 and labor participation. He exaggerated the reshoring of manufacturing jobs. The CAPE ratio was at 32 and rising before the covid-19 mess hit. Plus deficits were off the chart in supposedly a perfect economy, the best economy ever.
Trump's initial response was to call the pandemic a hoax. Now he blames Democrats, China, the state governors, the WHO, etc for his own missteps. We have a leader who apparently likes to take credit and shift blame; who delegates responsibility but not authority. Meanwhile, his big money backers tend to always see big government as the problem and think free markets can fix everything. I think George W Bush learned his lesson from Katrina. Sadly, some Republicans think Obama was actually responsible for the Katrina response. It appears others seriously think disaster response is primarily up to the private sector and the respective states or territories. Puerto Rico anyone? So what we got was another sluggish, semi-coherent response with a lot of finger pointing at others.
Trump Apologists:
"When Trump blocked all travel from China; Biden, Pelosi, and the liberal media called him a racist."
"The Democrats held up the covid-19 relief package by trying to add abortion funding and aid to Iran."
Let's put it this way. There are protestors in Lansing Fucking scUM, protesting the stay at home order and waving their Trump flags
fidiots. Those are the ones who say "frickin'-a" when Trump claims absolute power, fires a bunch of IGs, puts his name on stimulus checks ...
-
And lo and behold we have our first COVID-19 truther:
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/laura-ingraham-hosts-covid-19-conspiracy-theorist-candace-owens
-
And lo and behold we have our first COVID-19 truther:
https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/laura-ingraham-hosts-covid-19-conspiracy-theorist-candace-owens
you can't call a black person that, thats racist
-
WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
He cut taxes; which corporations used to buy back their own stock. He conflated current quarterly GDP growth with annualized Obama era GDP growth; current U-3 unemployment with Obama era U-6 and labor participation. He exaggerated the reshoring of manufacturing jobs. The CAPE ratio was at 32 and rising before the covid-19 mess hit. Plus deficits were off the chart in supposedly a perfect economy, the best economy ever.
Trump's initial response was to call the pandemic a hoax. Now he blames Democrats, China, the state governors, the WHO, etc for his own missteps. We have a leader who apparently likes to take credit and shift blame; who delegates responsibility but not authority. Meanwhile, his big money backers tend to always see big government as the problem and think free markets can fix everything. I think George W Bush learned his lesson from Katrina. Sadly, some Republicans think Obama was actually responsible for the Katrina response. It appears others seriously think disaster response is primarily up to the private sector and the respective states or territories. Puerto Rico anyone? So what we got was another sluggish, semi-coherent response with a lot of finger pointing at others.
Trump Apologists:
"When Trump blocked all travel from China; Biden, Pelosi, and the liberal media called him a racist."
"The Democrats held up the covid-19 relief package by trying to add abortion funding and aid to Iran."
Let's put it this way. There are protestors in Lansing Fucking scUM, protesting the stay at home order and waving their Trump flags
fidiots. Those are the ones who say "frickin'-a" when Trump claims absolute power, fires a bunch of IGs, puts his name on stimulus checks ...
yikes man, you need a few dozen red pills to cure your very bad case of TDS
-
To be fair to the Mich governor, she did clarify that U.S. flags can be purchased in Mich. Tho you can't buy a made in the USA American flag at your local Costco, you can order one of those made in China ones at Amazon.
-
People aren’t going to stay hunkered down forever and most of them are a lot more scared of poverty than they are this virus, and it’s hard to argue with that point of view knowing now that this is a lot less dangerous than we were led to believe.
Meanwhile while everyone is freaking out we’ve got the government handing out taxpayer dollars like candy to Wall Street and big businesses while small businesses are struggling to get access to the funds they were promised.
Then they send out these stimulus checks to average Americans that are *just enough* to keep them from asking too many questions or getting too pushy about the stay at home orders.
And then as a final kick in the nuts it’s been turned into identity politics where you’ve got the Democrat governors wanting to keep the economy shut down indefinitely unless their broke states (Illinois for example) get a bunch more federal money to bail them out.
I propose a very simple solution to this mess: Go back to work and stay the fuck away from Grandma!
I wish George Carlin was still around to give some commentary on this whole study in obfuscation.
-
I'm guessing there were probably zero protesters in Lansing from out of state. They are free to travel back and forth to their summer cabins in Mich at will. It's just the residents of Mich who can't go to theirs.
And those out of staters can put a canoe in the water when they get to the cabin.
No row boats allowed for anybody tho. There's undoubtedly science somewhere indicating virus transmission does not occur with canoes, just boats.
-
I just bought a mid-June flight from ORD to LAX for $17.10
-
I just bought a mid-June flight from ORD to LAX for $17.10
Teach me
-
People aren’t going to stay hunkered down forever and most of them are a lot more scared of poverty than they are this virus, and it’s hard to argue with that point of view knowing now that this is a lot less dangerous than we were led to believe.
Meanwhile while everyone is freaking out we’ve got the government handing out taxpayer dollars like candy to Wall Street and big businesses while small businesses are struggling to get access to the funds they were promised.
Then they send out these stimulus checks to average Americans that are *just enough* to keep them from asking too many questions or getting too pushy about the stay at home orders.
And then as a final kick in the nuts it’s been turned into identity politics where you’ve got the Democrat governors wanting to keep the economy shut down indefinitely unless their broke states (Illinois for example) get a bunch more federal money to bail them out.
I propose a very simple solution to this mess: Go back to work and stay the fuck away from Grandma!
I wish George Carlin was still around to give some commentary on this whole study in obfuscation.
Looks like you’ve been doing a little social distancing from reality.
Let’s look at Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine’s no-nonsense response to the wingnut protests taking place at the state capitol building:
"We could hear protesters outside your briefing on Thursday, April 9. Folks want to reopen business. How are you managing that backlash?
I fully understand their feelings. I think the thing everyone needs to understand, though, is this economy is not going to come back if people are afraid to go out. So no matter what order I put on, or don’t put on, what we have to do is feed people’s confidence that we can protect them. And we’re putting together a plan, as I know other states are, about how we start to reopen. And it’s based on testing. It’s based on tracing. It’s based on figuring out who has already had it. So that’s what’s going to give people confidence and that’s what’s going to allow our economy to come back. It’s not like I can walk out and turn a switch on, and everything comes back because even if I would walk out tomorrow and say, ‘OK, all the orders, no more orders, do whatever you want to do.’ That doesn’t solve the problem. If people fear for their life, they’re not going to spend money, they’re not going to go out to eat, they’re not going to go to a ball game, they’re not going to do all the things that we all would want to do."
https://time.com/5820800/ohio-gov-mike-dewine-coronavirus/
-
Teach me
spirit.com (http://spirit.com)
-
I propose a very simple solution to this mess: Go back to work and stay the fuck away from Grandma!
Then you get into a car accident and the hospital can't deal with you.
There was a woman bitching about not being able to get her hair colored. Hint: coloring her hair is the least of her beauty problem.
-
Teach me
spirit.com (http://spirit.com)
Well known you aren't afraid of dumpsters
-
I'm guessing there were probably zero protesters in Lansing from out of state. They are free to travel back and forth to their summer cabins in Mich at will. It's just the residents of Mich who can't go to theirs.
And those out of staters can put a canoe in the water when they get to the cabin.
No row boats allowed for anybody tho. There's undoubtedly science somewhere indicating virus transmission does not occur with canoes, just boats.
It seemed to me they went a little too far in MI that you could not go to your other home or shop for whatever was available in the Meijers.
-
People aren’t going to stay hunkered down forever and most of them are a lot more scared of poverty than they are this virus, and it’s hard to argue with that point of view knowing now that this is a lot less dangerous than we were led to believe.
Meanwhile while everyone is freaking out we’ve got the government handing out taxpayer dollars like candy to Wall Street and big businesses while small businesses are struggling to get access to the funds they were promised.
Then they send out these stimulus checks to average Americans that are *just enough* to keep them from asking too many questions or getting too pushy about the stay at home orders.
And then as a final kick in the nuts it’s been turned into identity politics where you’ve got the Democrat governors wanting to keep the economy shut down indefinitely unless their broke states (Illinois for example) get a bunch more federal money to bail them out.
I propose a very simple solution to this mess: Go back to work and stay the fuck away from Grandma!
I wish George Carlin was still around to give some commentary on this whole study in obfuscation.
Looks like you’ve been doing a little social distancing from reality.
Let’s look at Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine’s no-nonsense response to the wingnut protests taking place at the state capitol building:
"We could hear protesters outside your briefing on Thursday, April 9. Folks want to reopen business. How are you managing that backlash?
I fully understand their feelings. I think the thing everyone needs to understand, though, is this economy is not going to come back if people are afraid to go out. So no matter what order I put on, or don’t put on, what we have to do is feed people’s confidence that we can protect them. And we’re putting together a plan, as I know other states are, about how we start to reopen. And it’s based on testing. It’s based on tracing. It’s based on figuring out who has already had it. So that’s what’s going to give people confidence and that’s what’s going to allow our economy to come back. It’s not like I can walk out and turn a switch on, and everything comes back because even if I would walk out tomorrow and say, ‘OK, all the orders, no more orders, do whatever you want to do.’ That doesn’t solve the problem. If people fear for their life, they’re not going to spend money, they’re not going to go out to eat, they’re not going to go to a ball game, they’re not going to do all the things that we all would want to do."
https://time.com/5820800/ohio-gov-mike-dewine-coronavirus/
Zoomed with a cousin who worked on the Hill at one point for a GOP Senator. While he is not a rabidly pro-Trump, he is a sympathizer. His wife is also a nurse at a hopsital and they have kids who work in the local supermarket. He was not complaining about the need to re-open the economy immediately as he said this stuff is nasty.
Based on what I have read, deaths are 2x more than what is statistically average for spring in places where this has hit badly. So this crap about this just being the flu and taking out people who would ordinarily die of the flu is just crap.
-
Oh, why not.
Imo, Whitmer is being fast tracked by the DNC. She spoke at the State of the Union address. Her name gets mentioned for VP. She thinks it's because she's special. Nobody wanted to tell her it's because she's the gov of a swing state.
Some Mich residents think she went too far with her expanded stay at home and she's got an AG who thought it would be a good idea to antagonize the people who understand the stay at home, but don't understand some of the arbitrary restrictions that have nothing to do with golf.
"I just can’t hear about one more black health care worker, police officer or bus driver die while getting a barrage of complaints from white folks outraged because they can’t go golfing."
-
I propose a very simple solution to this mess: Go back to work and stay the fuck away from Grandma!
Then you get into a car accident and the hospital can't deal with you.
There was a woman bitching about not being able to get her hair colored. Hint: coloring her hair is the least of her beauty problem.
I don’t buy this at all. Not one little bit. There have been 8 confirmed cases in my entire county and none of them serious let alone fatal. Caution was certainly warranted but once the first wave is flattened and the weather warms it’s going to work in our favor. I read a study they conducted in Germany that something like 15% of one entire community that was tested had already had it and recovered at home or were asymptomatic. When taking this into account it pushed the true treatment and mortality rate down to levels almost like normal seasonal flu. But hey guess we will see what happens.
-
People aren’t going to stay hunkered down forever and most of them are a lot more scared of poverty than they are this virus, and it’s hard to argue with that point of view knowing now that this is a lot less dangerous than we were led to believe.
Meanwhile while everyone is freaking out we’ve got the government handing out taxpayer dollars like candy to Wall Street and big businesses while small businesses are struggling to get access to the funds they were promised.
Then they send out these stimulus checks to average Americans that are *just enough* to keep them from asking too many questions or getting too pushy about the stay at home orders.
And then as a final kick in the nuts it’s been turned into identity politics where you’ve got the Democrat governors wanting to keep the economy shut down indefinitely unless their broke states (Illinois for example) get a bunch more federal money to bail them out.
I propose a very simple solution to this mess: Go back to work and stay the fuck away from Grandma!
I wish George Carlin was still around to give some commentary on this whole study in obfuscation.
Looks like you’ve been doing a little social distancing from reality.
Let’s look at Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine’s no-nonsense response to the wingnut protests taking place at the state capitol building:
"We could hear protesters outside your briefing on Thursday, April 9. Folks want to reopen business. How are you managing that backlash?
I fully understand their feelings. I think the thing everyone needs to understand, though, is this economy is not going to come back if people are afraid to go out. So no matter what order I put on, or don’t put on, what we have to do is feed people’s confidence that we can protect them. And we’re putting together a plan, as I know other states are, about how we start to reopen. And it’s based on testing. It’s based on tracing. It’s based on figuring out who has already had it. So that’s what’s going to give people confidence and that’s what’s going to allow our economy to come back. It’s not like I can walk out and turn a switch on, and everything comes back because even if I would walk out tomorrow and say, ‘OK, all the orders, no more orders, do whatever you want to do.’ That doesn’t solve the problem. If people fear for their life, they’re not going to spend money, they’re not going to go out to eat, they’re not going to go to a ball game, they’re not going to do all the things that we all would want to do."
https://time.com/5820800/ohio-gov-mike-dewine-coronavirus/
What does that even have to do with anything I said? What part of anything I said isn’t rooted in reality rather than CNN fear mongering? Obviously things will have to be reopened with a plan you don’t just hit the reopen button.
-
Well known you aren't afraid of dumpsters
At the risk of repeating myself ...
From time to time I read/hear people poking fun at Spirit. I think Jimmy Kimmel is guilty of it, and I suspect he doesn't fly commercial.
I don't know why people want to pay 4x as much, but obviously some do. I don't see why I should subsidize people who can't read good.
I fly fairly often, among various airlines. The least comfortable airline is Southwest, hands down. The seats are packed together just as tightly, but they also recline (which Spirit and Frontier do not). The cattle call is embarrassing. Trying to explain to idiots that my number beats theirs because I hovered over my browser 24-hours before departure time. The race for the "good" seats.
I've had good experiences on the Delta Shuttle, but I've had lousy experiences on the Delta Shuttle. Sometimes you get the plane with no middle seats, sometimes you don't.
United is the second worst. Why did they think I'd want a TV and phone jammed in my face in 2018? Or 2008 for that matter?
American can be useful if you need to hub-n-spoke it to some underserved regional backwater. I almost never fly it even though/because it's the only option in my home town.
I flew Norwegian and easyJet on my European trip in August. I thought easyJet was fine.
Norwegian economy was good enough for an overnight. (Maybe it was harder on Piper. He's taller than I am.) I took the Premium service on my return from Copenhagen to JFK. It wasn't worth the extra money. I slept well on both legs. Only the wine was free (not liquor) in Premium, and they didn't give it to us when we first got on. We had to get airborne first (a terrible policy).
I've never flown JetBlue. I'm not sure I would trust Allegiant. I aspire to Emirates, but I'm not going that way as far as I know.
I like Megabus. I pay a dollar per ride. I did the Chicago-NYC a couple of times, but because I can fly Spirit for about $30, I usually pay 30x more than I have to. 16 hours is a long time when you've already passed all the scenery a couple of times.
-
CNN fear mongering
It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.
-
She thinks it's because she's special.
What's your opinion of Sarah Palin?
-
WTF did Trump do to the stock market?
He cut taxes; which corporations used to buy back their own stock. He conflated current quarterly GDP growth with annualized Obama era GDP growth; current U-3 unemployment with Obama era U-6 and labor participation. He exaggerated the reshoring of manufacturing jobs. The CAPE ratio was at 32 and rising before the covid-19 mess hit. Plus deficits were off the chart in supposedly a perfect economy, the best economy ever.
Trump's initial response was to call the pandemic a hoax. Now he blames Democrats, China, the state governors, the WHO, etc for his own missteps. We have a leader who apparently likes to take credit and shift blame; who delegates responsibility but not authority. Meanwhile, his big money backers tend to always see big government as the problem and think free markets can fix everything. I think George W Bush learned his lesson from Katrina. Sadly, some Republicans think Obama was actually responsible for the Katrina response. It appears others seriously think disaster response is primarily up to the private sector and the respective states or territories. Puerto Rico anyone? So what we got was another sluggish, semi-coherent response with a lot of finger pointing at others.
Trump Apologists:
"When Trump blocked all travel from China; Biden, Pelosi, and the liberal media called him a racist."
"The Democrats held up the covid-19 relief package by trying to add abortion funding and aid to Iran."
Let's put it this way. There are protestors in Lansing Fucking scUM, protesting the stay at home order and waving their Trump flags
fidiots. Those are the ones who say "frickin'-a" when Trump claims absolute power, fires a bunch of IGs, puts his name on stimulus checks ...
yikes man, you need a few dozen red pills to cure your very bad case of TDS
You need to get your head out your ass. Seriously.
-
CNN fear mongering
It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.
Someone has to play the heel!
-
CNN fear mongering
It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. Anyone that tests positive for it dies from it. They get more money that way. Thousands if not millions of people die each year the same way with no fanfare and no economic shutdown that cripples the working class and those in our society that are most vulnerable.
For a place that’s full of liberals I find it interesting how no one is talking about impeachment, the election, and the government giving billions to Wall Street while completely fucking small business, independent contractors and people in the service industries.
I mean those people who are still acting like this is the doomsday virus have to be living in another reality at this point, right? I’m just surprised at how easily you folks in that camp have had your attention diverted.
-
CNN fear mongering
It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. Anyone that tests positive for it dies from it. They get more money that way. Thousands if not millions of people die each year the same way with no fanfare and no economic shutdown that cripples the working class and those in our society that are most vulnerable.
For a place that’s full of liberals I find it interesting how no one is talking about impeachment, the election, and the government giving billions to Wall Street while completely fucking small business, independent contractors and people in the service industries.
I mean those people who are still acting like this is the doomsday virus have to be living in another reality at this point, right? I’m just surprised at how easily you folks in that camp have had your attention diverted.
Not sure attention is diverted as opposed to it being completely predictable that Trump would help his friends on Wall Street and in Red States while screwing over everyone else, including a large segment of his fan base.
Nonetheless, you completely ignore that the amount of deaths are double what they are on average in the areas that have been hit hardest by this. That there is only 4 or 8 or whatever known cases in your country is good. Probably a signal that the lockdown is helping prevent the spread to low density areas that are not seeing people who have traveled to areas where they could be exposed.
Seems odd that the South Dakota meatpacking plant has been hit hard, doesn't it? Or, maybe not since they probably get a ton of truckers, etc. in there.
-
It's not just the Smithfield plant, of course.
Workers in lots of industries aren't thrilled by their working conditions. Perhaps Custard thinks they all want to be there. Work makes us free, after all.
-
CNN fear mongering
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. Anyone that tests positive for it dies from it. They get more money that way. Thousands if not millions of people die each year the same way with no fanfare and no economic shutdown that cripples the working class and those in our society that are most vulnerable.
For a place that’s full of liberals I find it interesting how no one is talking about impeachment, the election, and the government giving billions to Wall Street while completely fucking small business, independent contractors and people in the service industries.
I mean those people who are still acting like this is the doomsday virus have to be living in another reality at this point, right? I’m just surprised at how easily you folks in that camp have had your attention diverted.
A positive coronavirus test may not be required in NYC, just the presumption.
"The city has added more than 3700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive."
I'm still waiting for the Minneapolis Star Tribune to have 1 word about the unredacted Horowitz FISA report footnotes that have been released. Not 1 word yet. Tho they hey did cite a newly released report today about the negative effects of Trump's fake news charges on journalism.
Imo Custard, as the economy begins to open I think there is the possibility of a significant rise in deaths. We may be getting thru the 1st phase; but as the economy opens, the death rate may be a function of how much we let our guard down until there is a vaccine.
There's no accepted treatment and no vaccine.
Don't let your guard down.
-
CNN fear mongering
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. Anyone that tests positive for it dies from it. They get more money that way. Thousands if not millions of people die each year the same way with no fanfare and no economic shutdown that cripples the working class and those in our society that are most vulnerable.
For a place that’s full of liberals I find it interesting how no one is talking about impeachment, the election, and the government giving billions to Wall Street while completely fucking small business, independent contractors and people in the service industries.
I mean those people who are still acting like this is the doomsday virus have to be living in another reality at this point, right? I’m just surprised at how easily you folks in that camp have had your attention diverted.
A positive coronavirus test may not be required in NYC, just the presumption.
"The city has added more than 3700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive."
I'm still waiting for the Minneapolis Star Tribune to have 1 word about the unredacted Horowitz FISA report footnotes that have been released. Not 1 word yet. Tho they hey did cite a newly released report today about the negative effects of Trump's fake news charges on journalism.
Imo Custard, as the economy begins to open I think there is the possibility of a significant rise in deaths. We may be getting thru the 1st phase; but as the economy opens, the death rate may be a function of how much we let our guard down until there is a vaccine.
There's no accepted treatment and no vaccine.
Don't let your guard down.
Why you would believe anything from Barr's AG office is beyond me.
That being said, the proof is in the fact that deaths are over 2x what is normally expected than usual. Forget how they classify the numbers, focus on the differences in the current number of deaths versus the average, historical numbers. That will tell you the impact of this.
-
It's not just the Smithfield plant, of course.
Workers in lots of industries aren't thrilled by their working conditions. Perhaps Custard thinks they all want to be there. Work makes us free, after all.
Smithfield is a Chinese owned company, they probably have all sorts of horrible conditions in their plants, but compared to a Chinese pork factory its probably amazing
-
Your mom is a Chinese-owned company.
-
Perhaps we should ask Smithfield Foods CEO Larry Pope why he sold the family business to the Chinese company. Nobody held a gun to his back. Moreover, China has the consumers, while America has the pigs. It’s a match made in “free-market heaven.”
How China purchased a prime cut of America’s pork industry
https://www.revealnews.org/article/how-china-purchased-a-prime-cut-of-americas-pork-industry/
-
It's not just the Smithfield plant, of course.
Workers in lots of industries aren't thrilled by their working conditions. Perhaps Custard thinks they all want to be there. Work makes us free, after all.
Smithfield is a Chinese owned company, they probably have all sorts of horrible conditions in their plants, but compared to a Chinese pork factory its probably amazing
Who owns Tyson?
The movie Fast Food Nation is pretty accurate - and it pre-dates that sale. Doesn't matter who owns Smithfield, they have to comply with FDA standards.
The issue here is that you have multiple families living together, one works at Smithfield, one works at another plant, etc...
The vector I'm worried about most here is the vineyard workers, the workers from various vineyards socialize together after work, so the virus hops from workforce to workforce.
-
I don’t buy this at all. Not one little bit. There have been 8 confirmed cases in my entire county and none of them serious let alone fatal. Caution was certainly warranted but once the first wave is flattened and the weather warms it’s going to work in our favor. I read a study they conducted in Germany that something like 15% of one entire community that was tested had already had it and recovered at home or were asymptomatic. When taking this into account it pushed the true treatment and mortality rate down to levels almost like normal seasonal flu. But hey guess we will see what happens.
I don't know what county you're talking about, but the woman with the hair dye is from Michigan which is a big red map.
The reason this started in NYC and the Bay Area is because those are international portals. But it isn't non-existent in the sticks, and the people in the sticks aren't taking this seriously, once it hits it will hit hard, a lot of these areas all the stores went bankrupt and the only groceries are Dollar Tree and Walmart, so it's just a big disease funnel. If you only have 8 cases, chances are you are in a place remote enough that you also don't have a lot of ICU beds, or the ability to just throw up a mobile hospital in a football stadium
-
It's not just the Smithfield plant, of course.
Workers in lots of industries aren't thrilled by their working conditions. Perhaps Custard thinks they all want to be there. Work makes us free, after all.
Smithfield is a Chinese owned company, they probably have all sorts of horrible conditions in their plants, but compared to a Chinese pork factory its probably amazing
Who owns Tyson?
The movie Fast Food Nation is pretty accurate - and it pre-dates that sale. Doesn't matter who owns Smithfield, they have to comply with FDA standards.
The issue here is that you have multiple families living together, one works at Smithfield, one works at another plant, etc...
The vector I'm worried about most here is the vineyard workers, the workers from various vineyards socialize together after work, so the virus hops from workforce to workforce.
I've found it fascinating how low the numbers of cases have been on the west coast compared to the midwest and east coast even though it pretty much started on the west coast
-
It only kills libruls. Now get out there and lick some doorknobs!
-
It's not just the Smithfield plant, of course.
Workers in lots of industries aren't thrilled by their working conditions. Perhaps Custard thinks they all want to be there. Work makes us free, after all.
Smithfield is a Chinese owned company, they probably have all sorts of horrible conditions in their plants, but compared to a Chinese pork factory its probably amazing
Who owns Tyson?
The movie Fast Food Nation is pretty accurate - and it pre-dates that sale. Doesn't matter who owns Smithfield, they have to comply with FDA standards.
The issue here is that you have multiple families living together, one works at Smithfield, one works at another plant, etc...
The vector I'm worried about most here is the vineyard workers, the workers from various vineyards socialize together after work, so the virus hops from workforce to workforce.
I've found it fascinating how low the numbers of cases have been on the west coast compared to the midwest and east coast even though it pretty much started on the west coast
It started in China, as far as we know.
While there are plenty of connections from the Bay Area and LA to China (I have co-workers and my kid has classmates who were in Shanghai or Beijing over Christmas), New York still has more international connect than SF or LA, and into a more diverse set of communities - Italy, Iran, etc.. that were hit in the first post-Wuhan wave. If you compare the flights to SFO/OAK/SJC vs Kennedy/LaGuardia/Newark, it's paltry. So we weren't as badly positioned as NYC.
Then you have the fact that as a whole, Californians are more educated, work harder, and take things more seriously. When we heard about this virus, the people of the Bay Area just stopped going to work, without being ordered - compared to in Michigan where people didn't do anything and when they were ordered to stay home, complained and bitched, then got TOGETHER and protested in Lansing. It's not that we don't question authority - I mean, we as a state recalled our Governor in 2002. It's that we actually are able to take information, synthesize it, and figure out if our Government is messing with us, rather than just deciding anything coming from the Government is a prori a conspiracy to take our guns and precious bodily fluids.
Our leaders ordered the shutdown early, our citizenry was shutting things down even earlier. I made my first big grocery run to prepare for this thing in February, my son was out of school March 4 - the school shut down not because they decided to, but because nobody was showing up to school. Breed shut down SF officially on March 16 but there was a de facto shut down a week earlier.
If this sounds like a bunch of pompous BS - I refer you to the following thing I just read.
"I've found it fascinating how low the numbers of cases have been on the west coast compared to the midwest and east coast even though it pretty much started on the west coast". Stats don't lie. We did the work. Newsom did an awesome job.
To be fair however, one thing is that in a place like the Bay Area, a huge portion of the workforce can work at home, we have high levels of connectivity and infrastructure in place to deal with this. Even people unwilling to cook at home, Doordash was already ubiquitous, so restaurant closures didn't really throw people for as huge a loop.
Stay safe man - I see that Washoe County has 572 cases compared to Sonoma County's 172, despite us having 2x the population and being 60 miles from SF. Higher per capita in Washoe than any Bay Area County.
-
It only kills libruls. Now get out there and lick some doorknobs!
I've been following the numbers in the downstate/exurban counties my in laws and extended family from my side live, very closely. I can see the hockey stick coming - I'm worried it's gonna get very very ugly. A lot of these towns are all now forced to shop at the one walmart in the slightly bigger town for almost everything, it's like one stop coronavirus shopping.
-
It only kills libruls. Now get out there and lick some doorknobs!
I've been following the numbers in the downstate/exurban counties my in laws and extended family from my side live, very closely. I can see the hockey stick coming - I'm worried it's gonna get very very ugly. A lot of these towns are all now forced to shop at the one walmart in the slightly bigger town for almost everything, it's like one stop coronavirus shopping.
‘It Really Is the Perfect Storm’: Coronavirus Comes for Rural America
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/15/coronavirus-rural-america-covid-19-186031
Heartland hotspots: A sudden rise in coronavirus cases is hitting rural states without stay-at-home orders
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/politics/republican-governors-stay-at-home-coronavirus/index.html
-
We made it a few answers without anyone refuting the fallacy that Covid is coastal.
I mean, I guess Detroit and Chicago are coastal. But more importantly, they're major hubs for international travel, and a huge portion of their population uses public transit.
I spend a lot of time in NYC. I ride the E and F trains a lot (and the Q70, Q46, sometimes the Q54 and Q60 for those keeping track). I have no idea how I'd stay six feet apart from everybody.
On the left coast, I use the LA Metro more than the typical Angeleno. It's sad to say, but it probably cut down the spread significantly. (On the bright side, they now have clean air for the first time in 70 years.)
The bay area has terrible, if ubiquitous, transit. And whether people were already hunkered down, I still want to give BART the finger.
-
It's not just the Smithfield plant, of course.
Workers in lots of industries aren't thrilled by their working conditions. Perhaps Custard thinks they all want to be there. Work makes us free, after all.
I’m the last person that would ever believe that work makes us free, but a lot of people base their entire identity and self-worth on what they do to pay their bills. At some point in all this, business owners are going to have to decide if they can or want to to reopen, and their employees will have to decide if they can or want to go back to work.
Herd immunity will continue to grow and as long as we keep the cases below the threshold of the medical community’s ability to handle them, and protect those most vulnerable, then that’s about all we can do. Short of waiting for a vaccine, which doesn’t appear to be an option, there is going to be a probable spike of cases (which will be extremely politicized) when the economy reopens. That’s common sense.
As far as people not liking their working conditions even when there isn’t a pandemic, it’s simple. If you don’t like your job find another one.
-
CNN fear mongering
It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. Anyone that tests positive for it dies from it. They get more money that way. Thousands if not millions of people die each year the same way with no fanfare and no economic shutdown that cripples the working class and those in our society that are most vulnerable.
For a place that’s full of liberals I find it interesting how no one is talking about impeachment, the election, and the government giving billions to Wall Street while completely fucking small business, independent contractors and people in the service industries.
I mean those people who are still acting like this is the doomsday virus have to be living in another reality at this point, right? I’m just surprised at how easily you folks in that camp have had your attention diverted.
Not sure attention is diverted as opposed to it being completely predictable that Trump would help his friends on Wall Street and in Red States while screwing over everyone else, including a large segment of his fan base.
Nonetheless, you completely ignore that the amount of deaths are double what they are on average in the areas that have been hit hardest by this. That there is only 4 or 8 or whatever known cases in your country is good. Probably a signal that the lockdown is helping prevent the spread to low density areas that are not seeing people who have traveled to areas where they could be exposed.
Seems odd that the South Dakota meatpacking plant has been hit hard, doesn't it? Or, maybe not since they probably get a ton of truckers, etc. in there.
I am not ignoring it. Dr. Birx made it clear that anyone who carried covid is listed as a covid death regardless of actual cause of death. It also appears hospitals are being incentivized to report as many Covid cases as possible in order to receive up to 15% additional funding under the CARES Act.
I mean hey if you wanna trust the numbers you're getting from the talking heads, go ahead. They’ll be making movies and books and documentaries for years about all the fuckery that’s led up to this, is still happening, and will continue to happen indefinitely. A la the housing bubble of 2008.
-
CNN fear mongering
It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.
Someone has to play the heel!
Gelato and BeachBum haven’t registered yet 🤷🏻♂️
-
I don’t buy this at all. Not one little bit. There have been 8 confirmed cases in my entire county and none of them serious let alone fatal. Caution was certainly warranted but once the first wave is flattened and the weather warms it’s going to work in our favor. I read a study they conducted in Germany that something like 15% of one entire community that was tested had already had it and recovered at home or were asymptomatic. When taking this into account it pushed the true treatment and mortality rate down to levels almost like normal seasonal flu. But hey guess we will see what happens.
I don't know what county you're talking about, but the woman with the hair dye is from Fucking scUM which is a big red map.
The reason this started in NYC and the Bay Area is because those are international portals. But it isn't non-existent in the sticks, and the people in the sticks aren't taking this seriously, once it hits it will hit hard, a lot of these areas all the stores went bankrupt and the only groceries are Dollar Tree and Walmart, so it's just a big disease funnel. If you only have 8 cases, chances are you are in a place remote enough that you also don't have a lot of ICU beds, or the ability to just throw up a mobile hospital in a football stadium
The people out here in the sticks are taking it pretty damned seriously. But we sticks dwellers, by choice, also have the benefits of not living in a crowded city where people are stacked on top of each other assholes to elbows, which imo has numerous advantages besides just making it easier to social distance and avoid disease.
Speaking of football our entire county’s population is roughly equal to what the attendance for an Illini football game vs Kent State during a snowstorm would be so I think we’ll be fine.
-
Herd immunity will continue to grow and as long as we keep the cases below the threshold of the medical community’s ability to handle them, and protect those most vulnerable, then that’s about all we can do. Short of waiting for a vaccine, which doesn’t appear to be an option ...
"Until we have a vaccine, anyone talking about herd immunity as a preventative strategy for COVID-19 is simply wrong."
https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic (https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic)
-
The people out here in the sticks are taking it pretty damned seriously. But we sticks dwellers, by choice, also have the benefits of not living in a crowded city where people are stacked on top of each other assholes to elbows, which imo has numerous advantages besides just making it easier to social distance and avoid disease.
Speaking of football our entire county’s population is roughly equal to what the attendance for an Illini football game vs Kent State during a snowstorm would be so I think we’ll be fine.
I'm pretty certain those folks protesting in Minneapolis, Lansing, and Columbus, weren't from Minneapolis, Detroit, and Cleveland. The various nextdoor/twitter/facebook in the Bay Area are all people talking about pleading with their parents in their ancestral homelands in the sticks to stay home and get a mask. My 85 year old in-laws have been to the store/CVS 3-4x as often as we have, and have politely waved off any offers for us to set up delivery. Though my sister/brother in-law did drive down from Naperville and have Easter Brunch with them from across the lawn and left pre-sanitized groceries on the step, they thought it was silly. If we attribute that to age - "The sticks" has a much higher average age.
The "assholes to elbows" meme is amusing, but doesn't really tell the story. If every person in Logan County is shopping at the exact same Walmart, they have a *higher* concentration of people in terms of residual contacts than someone in New York City. While they are absolutely just driving their car instead of walking down a sidewalk or taking public transit that might contain other people, that implies other direct contacts at gas stations. But the sidewalks and public transit in metro areas are devoid of people right now anyway. It's easier to self distance in places with a higher level of services - even in sticks-ish Sonoma County we have enough hospitals to separate Covid patients completely by building. The fact that people in the sticks drive everywhere is also contributing to what is showing to be a higher mortality rate because of higher rates of co-morbidity - obesity and diabetes.
ILLove lives in Washoe County NV, which is not particularly dense, and they have a higher per capita infection than San Francisco County, despite not being an international hub of any note. Clinton County IL is "the sticks" and they have 117 cases per 100k people, which is higher than Santa Clara County which was one of the first major epicenters.
-
The people out here in the sticks are taking it pretty damned seriously. But we sticks dwellers, by choice, also have the benefits of not living in a crowded city where people are stacked on top of each other assholes to elbows, which imo has numerous advantages besides just making it easier to social distance and avoid disease.
Speaking of football our entire county’s population is roughly equal to what the attendance for an Illini football game vs Kent State during a snowstorm would be so I think we’ll be fine.
Fine is relative. Density and volume decrease, but so does access to healthcare. A hospital strained when a 6th patient needs a ventilator is no better than a hospital whose limit is 100 having patient 101 show up. Above-margin casualties are lower in the absolute sense but may be higher in a percent of the population view. Losing 50 people in a month in a declining town of 5k with a typical weekly mortality of like 4-5 people is fairly traumatic.
-
CNN fear mongering
It's these types of quotes that weigh down all your reasonable points.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. And while reports of people drowning in their own fluids may seem alarmist, the fact is that most people don't like drowning in their own fluids.
Dead bodies are easy to quantify. Anyone that tests positive for it dies from it. They get more money that way. Thousands if not millions of people die each year the same way with no fanfare and no economic shutdown that cripples the working class and those in our society that are most vulnerable.
For a place that’s full of liberals I find it interesting how no one is talking about impeachment, the election, and the government giving billions to Wall Street while completely fucking small business, independent contractors and people in the service industries.
I mean those people who are still acting like this is the doomsday virus have to be living in another reality at this point, right? I’m just surprised at how easily you folks in that camp have had your attention diverted.
Not sure attention is diverted as opposed to it being completely predictable that Trump would help his friends on Wall Street and in Red States while screwing over everyone else, including a large segment of his fan base.
Nonetheless, you completely ignore that the amount of deaths are double what they are on average in the areas that have been hit hardest by this. That there is only 4 or 8 or whatever known cases in your country is good. Probably a signal that the lockdown is helping prevent the spread to low density areas that are not seeing people who have traveled to areas where they could be exposed.
Seems odd that the South Dakota meatpacking plant has been hit hard, doesn't it? Or, maybe not since they probably get a ton of truckers, etc. in there.
I am not ignoring it. Dr. Birx made it clear that anyone who carried covid is listed as a covid death regardless of actual cause of death. It also appears hospitals are being incentivized to report as many Covid cases as possible in order to receive up to 15% additional funding under the CARES Act.
I mean hey if you wanna trust the numbers you're getting from the talking heads, go ahead. They’ll be making movies and books and documentaries for years about all the fuckery that’s led up to this, is still happening, and will continue to happen indefinitely. A la the housing bubble of 2008.
Something appears to be getting lost in translation. Let me put it this way: if the 5 year average of deaths in NYC in March is 10,000 and this year the number of deaths is 20,000, that is an issue. And this is happening in NY, Italy, etc. that have been hard hit by this.
-
In New York City, 18,551 people died of all causes between March 11 and April 13 2020. Expected deaths for New York City from March 11-April 13 based on past experience: 5155.
-
People need to avoid having a heart attack in NYC right now.
-
People need to avoid having a heart attack in NYC right now.
18,551 is about 13400 more than normal. Of those, 10367 were directly attributed to covid-19 infections. That leaves about 3000 more above the average. Were these possibly due to overtaxed health care facilities?
-
It could possibly be that's the case. Or maybe, there's deceased folks who've never been tested.
-
Herd immunity will continue to grow and as long as we keep the cases below the threshold of the medical community’s ability to handle them, and protect those most vulnerable, then that’s about all we can do. Short of waiting for a vaccine, which doesn’t appear to be an option ...
"Until we have a vaccine, anyone talking about herd immunity as a preventative strategy for COVID-19 is simply wrong."
https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic (https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic)
It’s not a preventative strategy and I didn’t claim it to be a cure all. It’s just basic science that herd immunity will unquestionably be a positive factor going forward. To argue otherwise would basically put that person in the anti-vaxxer camp.
-
Unless, like other Corona viruses, it mutates.
-
Were these possibly due to overtaxed health care facilities?
As you probably know, NYC EMTs were directed to code all cardiac arrests that couldn't be resuscitated in the field.
-
FWIG, the 10367 includes 6589 who were confirmed by tests. Another 3778 were not tested but believed to have died from covid, including some at home, probably based on symptoms.
-
The people out here in the sticks are taking it pretty damned seriously. But we sticks dwellers, by choice, also have the benefits of not living in a crowded city where people are stacked on top of each other assholes to elbows, which imo has numerous advantages besides just making it easier to social distance and avoid disease.
Speaking of football our entire county’s population is roughly equal to what the attendance for an Illini football game vs Kent State during a snowstorm would be so I think we’ll be fine.
I'm pretty certain those folks protesting in Minneapolis, Lansing, and Columbus, weren't from Minneapolis, Detroit, and Cleveland. The various nextdoor/twitter/facebook in the Bay Area are all people talking about pleading with their parents in their ancestral homelands in the sticks to stay home and get a mask. My 85 year old in-laws have been to the store/CVS 3-4x as often as we have, and have politely waved off any offers for us to set up delivery. Though my sister/brother in-law did drive down from Naperville and have Easter Brunch with them from across the lawn and left pre-sanitized groceries on the step, they thought it was silly. If we attribute that to age - "The sticks" has a much higher average age.
The "assholes to elbows" meme is amusing, but doesn't really tell the story. If every person in Logan County is shopping at the exact same Walmart, they have a *higher* concentration of people in terms of residual contacts than someone in New York City. While they are absolutely just driving their car instead of walking down a sidewalk or taking public transit that might contain other people, that implies other direct contacts at gas stations. But the sidewalks and public transit in metro areas are devoid of people right now anyway. It's easier to self distance in places with a higher level of services - even in sticks-ish Sonoma County we have enough hospitals to separate Covid patients completely by building. The fact that people in the sticks drive everywhere is also contributing to what is showing to be a higher mortality rate because of higher rates of co-morbidity - obesity and diabetes.
ILLove lives in Washoe County NV, which is not particularly dense, and they have a higher per capita infection than San Francisco County, despite not being an international hub of any note. Clinton County IL is "the sticks" and they have 117 cases per 100k people, which is higher than Santa Clara County which was one of the first major epicenters.
Man this is all so elementary I kind of feel bad you spent that much time thinking and typing that out.
In our small town, elderly people mostly sequestered themselves around March 10, as my own grandmother did. She hasn’t left her home since. The churches and citizens volunteered to deliver all the basic needs, peace meals, etc to those at risk or unable to safely get their own goods. Gloves and now masks are worn for delivery and are changed between deliveries.
I would really like to see some national data that shows the foot traffic density per “essential business”
FFS I remember all the Trib articles a few years ago after Dominick’s closed about all the “Food Deserts” in the heart of Chicago. What about those people?
-
Unless, like other Corona viruses, it mutates.
No one will stop you from staying in your domicile for as long as you wish, assuming rent is being paid.
-
The numbers debunk the notion that the covid deaths are being padded. Also indicate that deaths from other causes have increased.
-
Man this is all so elementary I kind of feel bad you spent that much time thinking and typing that out.
In our small town, elderly people mostly sequestered themselves around March 10, as my own grandmother did. She hasn’t left her home since. The churches and citizens volunteered to deliver all the basic needs, peace meals, etc to those at risk or unable to safely get their own goods. Gloves and now masks are worn for delivery and are changed between deliveries.
I would really like to see some national data that shows the foot traffic density per “essential business”
FFS I remember all the Trib articles a few years ago after Dominick’s closed about all the “Food Deserts” in the heart of Chicago. What about those people?
I see - they just sent all the younger people out to protest, in close quarters, with no masks, calling the government a bunch of overreachers and the pandemic a hoax? While they left grandma at home out of worry? Maybe they're out of a job and being a$troturfed.
If your anecdote it true, it's a tribute to your town. It's clearly not universal nor typical.
The discussion of Food Desert wasn't so much that is "no food", it's that there is "very little healthy food". A lot of Dollar Stores and convenience marts there too, but in Lincoln there is an IGA that's hobbling on its last legs, WalMart, and the Dollar Store. There used to a Kroger and a Jewel as well as a couple butchers and other specialty stores. Now, it's a 50/30/20 split WM/DS/IGA - with nominally the same amount of people going through fewer doors, in fewer aisles, sharing fewer carts.
That sort of consolidation isn't as readily apparent in more urban or even suburban areas.
-
In our small town, elderly people mostly sequestered themselves around March 10, as my own grandmother did. She hasn’t left her home since. The churches and citizens volunteered to deliver all the basic needs, peace meals, etc to those at risk or unable to safely get their own goods. Gloves and now masks are worn for delivery and are changed between deliveries.
Also: the reason the curve is flattening here is that *EVERYONE* sequestered themselves, not just the elderly. Schools closed before the date you mention above, businesses shut shortly after. Parks are closed. You are not allowed to be in a public business without a mask, nor outdoors unless you are distanced (so for example I have to wear a mask in a parking lot, but not on a bike ride). Churches did their last services on the
-
I suppose small business owners from International Falls to Blue Earth who have shut down their never to re-open businesses, and their laid off forever employees who now face a very uncertain future, are included in the protesters who aren't from Minneapolis ?
Minneapolis doesn't have a governor, but the state does, and the governor of the state is in Minneapolis-St Paul. When you no longer have a job and aren't ready to see if the local Wal-Mart is hiring, you might be ok with a road trip.
The protesters are a bunch of out of state wingnut hicks who travelled in is a much cooler story tho. If they would have only moved to California, they could have seen the error of their ways and been more educated, learn to work harder and know to take things more seriously.
-
I suppose small business owners from International Falls to Blue Earth who have shut down their never to re-open businesses, and their laid off forever employees who now face a very uncertain future, are included in the protesters who aren't from Minneapolis ?
Minneapolis doesn't have a governor, but the state does, and the governor of the state is in Minneapolis-St Paul. When you no longer have a job and aren't ready to see if the local Wal-Mart is hiring, you might be ok with a road trip.
The protesters are a bunch of out of state wingnut hicks who travelled in is a much cooler story tho. If they would have only moved to California, they could have seen the error of their ways and been more educated, learn to work harder and know to take things more seriously.
There's a bit of truth in this. Probably are some rural small business folks that may have a gripe. But you have to admit , on the surface it looks like an NRA/Militia gathering funded and promoted by far right causes. One things for sure, all these "Don't tread on me" types wrapped in their flags can't touch the patriotism or courage of an ER nurse. Ask the nurses what they think of these guys.
-
I suppose small business owners from International Falls to Blue Earth who have shut down their never to re-open businesses, and their laid off forever employees who now face a very uncertain future, are included in the protesters who aren't from Minneapolis ?
Minneapolis doesn't have a governor, but the state does, and the governor of the state is in Minneapolis-St Paul. When you no longer have a job and aren't ready to see if the local Wal-Mart is hiring, you might be ok with a road trip.
The protesters are a bunch of out of state wingnut hicks who travelled in is a much cooler story tho. If they would have only moved to California, they could have seen the error of their ways and been more educated, learn to work harder and know to take things more seriously.
There's a bit of truth in this. Probably are some rural small business folks that may have a gripe. But you have to admit , on the surface it looks like an NRA/Militia gathering funded and promoted by far right causes. One things for sure, all these "Don't tread on me" types wrapped in their flags can't touch the patriotism or courage of an ER nurse. Ask the nurses what they think of these guys.
Small businesses are urban and rural. Small business owners are of all different political leanings. People facing financial devastation are urban and rural, and of different political leanings. There are most likely some of each who have no political leanings.
The prospects of a depression have not been eliminated, and some of these people dont want to see one.
A "dont tread on me" type flag bearer may have also been to Viet Nam or the Middle East. I have the utmost respect for ER nurses and would never ask one how they feel about someone they may know little, or nothing, about.
-
I suppose small business owners from International Falls to Blue Earth who have shut down their never to re-open businesses, and their laid off forever employees who now face a very uncertain future, are included in the protesters who aren't from Minneapolis ?
Minneapolis doesn't have a governor, but the state does, and the governor of the state is in Minneapolis-St Paul. When you no longer have a job and aren't ready to see if the local Wal-Mart is hiring, you might be ok with a road trip.
The protesters are a bunch of out of state wingnut hicks who travelled in is a much cooler story tho. If they would have only moved to California, they could have seen the error of their ways and been more educated, learn to work harder and know to take things more seriously.
This all sounds pretty accurate until you see the Confederate flags. Not exactly sure what those flags have to do with liberty.
-
I suppose small business owners from International Falls to Blue Earth who have shut down their never to re-open businesses, and their laid off forever employees who now face a very uncertain future, are included in the protesters who aren't from Minneapolis ?
Minneapolis doesn't have a governor, but the state does, and the governor of the state is in Minneapolis-St Paul. When you no longer have a job and aren't ready to see if the local Wal-Mart is hiring, you might be ok with a road trip.
The protesters are a bunch of out of state wingnut hicks who travelled in is a much cooler story tho. If they would have only moved to California, they could have seen the error of their ways and been more educated, learn to work harder and know to take things more seriously.
There's a bit of truth in this. Probably are some rural small business folks that may have a gripe. But you have to admit , on the surface it looks like an NRA/Militia gathering funded and promoted by far right causes. One things for sure, all these "Don't tread on me" types wrapped in their flags can't touch the patriotism or courage of an ER nurse. Ask the nurses what they think of these guys.
Small businesses are urban and rural. Small business owners are of all different political leanings. People facing financial devastation are urban and rural, and of different political leanings. There are most likely some of each who have no political leanings.
The prospects of a depression have not been eliminated, and some of these people dont want to see one.
A "dont tread on me" type flag bearer may have also been to Viet Nam or the Middle East. I have the utmost respect for ER nurses and would never ask one how they feel about someone they may know little, or nothing, about.
Unilaterally these events have been draped in two flags.
TRUMP and the Stars and Bars.
-
ILLove lives in Washoe County NV, which is not particularly dense, and they have a higher per capita infection than San Francisco County, despite not being an international hub of any note. Clinton County IL is "the sticks" and they have 117 cases per 100k people, which is higher than Santa Clara County which was one of the first major epicenters.
did you know that Washoe County is larger than the state of Connecticut?
But anyway, its basically 3 sort of dense cities and then nothingness... the dense stuff is along a major truck/train route from California ports and has a lot of casino/warehouse workers
a lot of people here are taking things seriously though and I see lots staying in and those that are out wearing masks, not sure where the cases are hitting the hardest but I know we had a nursing home get infected
662 cases and 19 deaths in a region of like 470k+ people isn't that crazy IMO especially considering we get a lot of travelers from San Francisco
-
ILLove lives in Washoe County NV, which is not particularly dense, and they have a higher per capita infection than San Francisco County, despite not being an international hub of any note. Clinton County IL is "the sticks" and they have 117 cases per 100k people, which is higher than Santa Clara County which was one of the first major epicenters.
did you know that Washoe County is larger than the state of Connecticut?
But anyway, its basically 3 sort of dense cities and then nothingness... the dense stuff is along a major truck/train route from California ports and has a lot of casino/warehouse workers
a lot of people here are taking things seriously though and I see lots staying in and those that are out wearing masks, not sure where the cases are hitting the hardest but I know we had a nursing home get infected
662 cases and 19 deaths in a region of like 470k+ people isn't that crazy IMO especially considering we get a lot of travelers from San Francisco
Three cities - Reno, Sparks, and Black Rock City :)
It's pretty funny that you say "It's not that crazy, we get a lot of people from San Francisco" - when San Francisco has a lower per capita infection rate....
-
I suppose small business owners from International Falls to Blue Earth who have shut down their never to re-open businesses, and their laid off forever employees who now face a very uncertain future, are included in the protesters who aren't from Minneapolis ?
Minneapolis doesn't have a governor, but the state does, and the governor of the state is in Minneapolis-St Paul. When you no longer have a job and aren't ready to see if the local Wal-Mart is hiring, you might be ok with a road trip.
The protesters are a bunch of out of state wingnut hicks who travelled in is a much cooler story tho. If they would have only moved to California, they could have seen the error of their ways and been more educated, learn to work harder and know to take things more seriously.
There's a bit of truth in this. Probably are some rural small business folks that may have a gripe. But you have to admit , on the surface it looks like an NRA/Militia gathering funded and promoted by far right causes. One things for sure, all these "Don't tread on me" types wrapped in their flags can't touch the patriotism or courage of an ER nurse. Ask the nurses what they think of these guys.
Small businesses are urban and rural. Small business owners are of all different political leanings. People facing financial devastation are urban and rural, and of different political leanings. There are most likely some of each who have no political leanings.
The prospects of a depression have not been eliminated, and some of these people dont want to see one.
A "dont tread on me" type flag bearer may have also been to Viet Nam or the Middle East. I have the utmost respect for ER nurses and would never ask one how they feel about someone they may know little, or nothing, about.
Unilaterally these events have been draped in two flags.
TRUMP and the Stars and Bars.
Certainly many people are financially hurting and feel a need to go to work, but most of the folks I’ve seen in these protests don’t mention this. Most seem irritated at the inconvenience and are arguing for their individual “free-dumb.” As Patrick Henry said, “Give me free refills, or give me death!”
Ironically, the conservative approach here, lacking robust virus testing/tracing, is to follow social distancing and shelter in place orders.
-
Man this is all so elementary I kind of feel bad you spent that much time thinking and typing that out.
In our small town, elderly people mostly sequestered themselves around March 10, as my own grandmother did. She hasn’t left her home since. The churches and citizens volunteered to deliver all the basic needs, peace meals, etc to those at risk or unable to safely get their own goods. Gloves and now masks are worn for delivery and are changed between deliveries.
I would really like to see some national data that shows the foot traffic density per “essential business”
FFS I remember all the Trib articles a few years ago after Dominick’s closed about all the “Food Deserts” in the heart of Chicago. What about those people?
I see - they just sent all the younger people out to protest, in close quarters, with no masks, calling the government a bunch of overreachers and the pandemic a hoax? While they left grandma at home out of worry? Maybe they're out of a job and being a$troturfed.
If your anecdote it true, it's a tribute to your town. It's clearly not universal nor typical.
The discussion of Food Desert wasn't so much that is "no food", it's that there is "very little healthy food". A lot of Dollar Stores and convenience marts there too, but in Lincoln there is an IGA that's hobbling on its last legs, WalMart, and the Dollar Store. There used to a Kroger and a Jewel as well as a couple butchers and other specialty stores. Now, it's a 50/30/20 split WM/DS/IGA - with nominally the same amount of people going through fewer doors, in fewer aisles, sharing fewer carts.
That sort of consolidation isn't as readily apparent in more urban or even suburban areas.
I get what you’re saying but I think there’s a lot of hypothesis here and not a lot of actual fact. My personal experience in a small town in Illinois directly contradicts what you believe to be happening based on personal bias and feedback from your family in Lincoln or whatever. I can’t imagine my town is just a one-off situation either.
And from the little research I’ve done, grocery stores in urban and suburban areas typically have higher shopper density than exurban and rural areas due to higher land and labor costs. Economics dictate that they need to have more throughput per store to be remain viable.
-
I hadn’t even heard anything about the protestors until I read this thread. They could be trying to clown the “don’t tread on me types” they could just be rabble rousers, they could be fringe lunatics, but I certainly wouldn’t use these idiots’ actions to justify lashing out at an entire segment of Americans anymore than I’d have used the often destructive BLM protests to justify lashing out at all black people.
-
Man this is all so elementary I kind of feel bad you spent that much time thinking and typing that out.
In our small town, elderly people mostly sequestered themselves around March 10, as my own grandmother did. She hasn’t left her home since. The churches and citizens volunteered to deliver all the basic needs, peace meals, etc to those at risk or unable to safely get their own goods. Gloves and now masks are worn for delivery and are changed between deliveries.
I would really like to see some national data that shows the foot traffic density per “essential business”
FFS I remember all the Trib articles a few years ago after Dominick’s closed about all the “Food Deserts” in the heart of Chicago. What about those people?
I see - they just sent all the younger people out to protest, in close quarters, with no masks, calling the government a bunch of overreachers and the pandemic a hoax? While they left grandma at home out of worry? Maybe they're out of a job and being a$troturfed.
If your anecdote it true, it's a tribute to your town. It's clearly not universal nor typical.
The discussion of Food Desert wasn't so much that is "no food", it's that there is "very little healthy food". A lot of Dollar Stores and convenience marts there too, but in Lincoln there is an IGA that's hobbling on its last legs, WalMart, and the Dollar Store. There used to a Kroger and a Jewel as well as a couple butchers and other specialty stores. Now, it's a 50/30/20 split WM/DS/IGA - with nominally the same amount of people going through fewer doors, in fewer aisles, sharing fewer carts.
That sort of consolidation isn't as readily apparent in more urban or even suburban areas.
I get what you’re saying but I think there’s a lot of hypothesis here and not a lot of actual fact. My personal experience in a small town in Illinois directly contradicts what you believe to be happening based on personal bias and feedback from your family in Lincoln or whatever. I can’t imagine my town is just a one-off situation either.
And from the little research I’ve done, grocery stores in urban and suburban areas typically have higher shopper density than exurban and rural areas due to higher land and labor costs. Economics dictate that they need to have more throughput per store to be remain viable.
This nonetheless means that the virus spread geographically is slowed. From our place in Mountain View, there are like 6 Costcos in a 15 mile radius. From Lincoln, there are Sam's Clubs in Peoria, Bloomington, Decatur, and Springfield. You have multiple counties all shopping at one store, then bringing it back to their home base. New Holland itself, the only thing you can buy is a John Deere Tractor - you can't even buy a coke in the zip code (maybe there's a coke machine in the John Deere Store)
-
Man this is all so elementary I kind of feel bad you spent that much time thinking and typing that out.
In our small town, elderly people mostly sequestered themselves around March 10, as my own grandmother did. She hasn’t left her home since. The churches and citizens volunteered to deliver all the basic needs, peace meals, etc to those at risk or unable to safely get their own goods. Gloves and now masks are worn for delivery and are changed between deliveries.
I would really like to see some national data that shows the foot traffic density per “essential business”
FFS I remember all the Trib articles a few years ago after Dominick’s closed about all the “Food Deserts” in the heart of Chicago. What about those people?
I see - they just sent all the younger people out to protest, in close quarters, with no masks, calling the government a bunch of overreachers and the pandemic a hoax? While they left grandma at home out of worry? Maybe they're out of a job and being a$troturfed.
If your anecdote it true, it's a tribute to your town. It's clearly not universal nor typical.
The discussion of Food Desert wasn't so much that is "no food", it's that there is "very little healthy food". A lot of Dollar Stores and convenience marts there too, but in Lincoln there is an IGA that's hobbling on its last legs, WalMart, and the Dollar Store. There used to a Kroger and a Jewel as well as a couple butchers and other specialty stores. Now, it's a 50/30/20 split WM/DS/IGA - with nominally the same amount of people going through fewer doors, in fewer aisles, sharing fewer carts.
That sort of consolidation isn't as readily apparent in more urban or even suburban areas.
I get what you’re saying but I think there’s a lot of hypothesis here and not a lot of actual fact. My personal experience in a small town in Illinois directly contradicts what you believe to be happening based on personal bias and feedback from your family in Lincoln or whatever. I can’t imagine my town is just a one-off situation either.
And from the little research I’ve done, grocery stores in urban and suburban areas typically have higher shopper density than exurban and rural areas due to higher land and labor costs. Economics dictate that they need to have more throughput per store to be remain viable.
This nonetheless means that the virus spread geographically is slowed. From our place in Mountain View, there are like 6 Costcos in a 15 mile radius. From Lincoln, there are Sam's Clubs in Peoria, Bloomington, Decatur, and Springfield. You have multiple counties all shopping at one store, then bringing it back to their home base. New Holland itself, the only thing you can buy is a John Deere Tractor - you can't even buy a coke in the zip code (maybe there's a coke machine in the John Deere Store)
You’d think they’d sell New Holland tractors in New Holland
-
The Minnesotans I talk with and see interviewed on tv don't hide behind flags and NRA banners. They're social distancing, and concerned about health. And health includes physical health, their family's economic health and the country's economic health.
I doubt if they hid their flags for the tv interviews to talk about closing their businesses and laying off employees.
-
The Minnesotans I talk with and see interviewed on tv don't hide behind flags and NRA banners. They're social distancing, and concerned about health. And health includes physical health, their family's economic health and the country's economic health.
I doubt if they hid their flags for the tv interviews to talk about closing their businesses and laying off employees.
https://img.apmcdn.org/4e0b4b3e006a59dd44fb8068954c0f17db5b652c/uncropped/14f5db-20200417-liberate-mn-protest-10.jpg
Walz has no Ballz is a nice touch
https://www.twincities.com/2020/04/17/trump-tweet-supports-protest-at-minnesota-governors-home/
-
ILLove lives in Washoe County NV, which is not particularly dense, and they have a higher per capita infection than San Francisco County, despite not being an international hub of any note. Clinton County IL is "the sticks" and they have 117 cases per 100k people, which is higher than Santa Clara County which was one of the first major epicenters.
did you know that Washoe County is larger than the state of Connecticut?
But anyway, its basically 3 sort of dense cities and then nothingness... the dense stuff is along a major truck/train route from California ports and has a lot of casino/warehouse workers
a lot of people here are taking things seriously though and I see lots staying in and those that are out wearing masks, not sure where the cases are hitting the hardest but I know we had a nursing home get infected
662 cases and 19 deaths in a region of like 470k+ people isn't that crazy IMO especially considering we get a lot of travelers from San Francisco
Three cities - Reno, Sparks, and Black Rock City :)
It's pretty funny that you say "It's not that crazy, we get a lot of people from San Francisco" - when San Francisco has a lower per capita infection rate....
per capita yes, still a lot of cases overall though
still surprised burning man got cancelled, but i guess a lot of planning goes into it before it takes place in september
-
strange that wanting to return to work is a political football these days
-
strange that wanting to return to work is a political football these days
Alt Right guys don't have much to do these days I guess.
-
strange that wanting to return to work is a political football these days
Alt Right guys don't have much to do these days I guess.
Pro-Gun Activists Push Anti-Quarantine Protests
“A trio of far-right, pro-gun provocateurs is behind some of the largest Facebook groups calling for anti-quarantine protests around the country, offering the latest illustration that some seemingly organic demonstrations are being engineered by a network of conservative activists,” the Washington Post reports.
“The Facebook groups target Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York, and they appear to be the work of Ben Dorr, the political director of a group called ‘Minnesota Gun Rights,’ and his siblings, Christopher and Aaron. By Sunday, the groups had roughly 200,000 members combined, and they continued to expand quickly, days after President Trump endorsed such protests by suggesting citizens should ‘liberate’ their states.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/04/19/pro-gun-activists-using-facebook-groups-push-anti-quarantine-protests/
You can have my gun when you take it from my cold dead hand...cough...cough...
-
Alt Right guys don't have much to do these days I guess.
When the virus hits St. Petersburg, those guys are fucked.
-
Alt Right guys don't have much to do these days I guess.
When the virus hits St. Petersburg, those guys are fucked.
Drudge linking to stories about Putin keeping a low profile as things get worse over there and having filmed meetings and speeches in advance that are being rolled out slowly over time.
-
Dude knows how to dictate.
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
Well, for starters, that guy in the article. Seems like a good start.
-
I vote for the Lansing protesters. It's time for the Deep State to organize a Rapture.
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
As long as they are not unborn babies!
-
I personally love the fact that the same people who had an absolute conniption when a football player protested peacefully by kneeling (which broke zero laws and endangered zero lives) now think that these protests that break the law and endanger potentially thousands of lives are a totally legitimate expression of freedom.
I’m beginning to think that maybe their views on whether something is a legitimate exercise of free speech is based on the message and not the form of protest. I’m sure I’m mistaken though.
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Man, Peapod picked a really bad time to go out of business.
-
I’m beginning to think that maybe their views on whether something is a legitimate exercise of free speech is based on the message and not the form of protest. I’m sure I’m mistaken though.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/ae4eccb1f70764d3bc1f1b9fe2d80dc8/tenor.gif?itemid=16782730)
-
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Those groceries are packed and delivered by magic corona free fairies, I presume?
-
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Those groceries are packed and delivered by magic corona free fairies, I presume?
"My 85 year old in-laws have been to the store/CVS 3-4x as often as we have, and have politely waved off any offers for us to set up delivery."
lol.
There's always Doordash or one of those other ubiquitous companies. Just make sure you specify delivery by magic corona free fairies.
-
I’m ok with fairies having a corona, just not the virus
-
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Those groceries are packed and delivered by magic corona free fairies, I presume?
Bingo. Let’s add transit workers to the list of people whose jobs affect their risk. 41 New York City transit workers have died and about 1,500 tested positive as of April 8, according to the New York Times. Grocery store chains are also beginning to report death of workers. The U.S. is the most powerful country in the world, but we can’t seem to provide sufficient protective equipment and testing to people in “essential services” that are helping to keep our country running during this public health emergency.
-
GMAB.
What the F?
-
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Those groceries are packed and delivered by magic corona free fairies, I presume?
"My 85 year old in-laws have been to the store/CVS 3-4x as often as we have, and have politely waved off any offers for us to set up delivery."
lol.
There's always Doordash or one of those other ubiquitous companies. Just make sure you specify delivery by magic corona free fairies.
To set up delivery by my wife's cousin down the road. Which - that's still some point of contact because they have to go to the grocery store as well, but they actually glove up, mask up, and sanitize the groceries.
To be honest, the biggest upside of delivery is that my father-in-law wouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.
-
GMAB.
What the F?
I have google earth on my phone.
-
Interesting take regarding Georgia.
Open Table shared some data that shows that restaurant bookings were down well over 50% *before* the restaurants were ordered closed - e.g. people stopped going to restaurants. Makes sense, my last meal out was March 4, and I had the heebie jeebies the whole time. Closure was March 16.
Kemp is allowing them to open back up, but a lot of restaurants may look at the cost/benefit and stay closed. If they are going to do 15-20% of typical business, it's not worth getting their supply chain back up only to let food rot. Not worth getting employees back in and pay them to do nothing.
BUT - if they are *allowed* to be open, but stay closed, then the State can deny them any money, PPP loans, etc... - they are "choosing" to stay closed. If they decide to stay closed, instead of their workers drawing from a pandemic related unemployment pool, they would be filing against the tab for the restaurant.
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Well, it’s not really social Darwinism. Natural selection would dictate that the goddamn moron rabbit that stands in the road staring at the pretty lights is the one that gets its genes removed from the gene pool. But with this, it’s just as likely that some innocent person who is trying to be careful is the one who suffers.
-
Interesting take regarding Georgia.
Open Table shared some data that shows that restaurant bookings were down well over 50% *before* the restaurants were ordered closed - e.g. people stopped going to restaurants. Makes sense, my last meal out was March 4, and I had the heebie jeebies the whole time. Closure was March 16.
Kemp is allowing them to open back up, but a lot of restaurants may look at the cost/benefit and stay closed. If they are going to do 15-20% of typical business, it's not worth getting their supply chain back up only to let food rot. Not worth getting employees back in and pay them to do nothing.
BUT - if they are *allowed* to be open, but stay closed, then the State can deny them any money, PPP loans, etc... - they are "choosing" to stay closed. If they decide to stay closed, instead of their workers drawing from a pandemic related unemployment pool, they would be filing against the tab for the restaurant.
I think we all recognize that restaurants and many other businesses won't be popping back to normal. We need a readiness and preparedness plan for getting our cities and communities back up and running.
We'll Need To Reopen Our Cities, But Not Without Making Changes First
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2020/03/coronavirus-cities-adapt-future-plan-economy-infrastructure/608908/
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Well, it’s not really social Darwinism. Natural selection would dictate that the goddamn moron rabbit that stands in the road staring at the pretty lights is the one that gets its genes removed from the gene pool. But with this, it’s just as likely that some innocent person who is trying to be careful is the one who suffers.
Obesity, lung disease from smoking, diabeetus, immune systems weakened by poor diet or lack of exercise, those with congenital issues that have been kept alive with modern medicine that would have perished early in life in previous times. These seem to be a lot of the people who’ve died from it, pretty much like any other flu. I’d be much more concerned if it were killing young healthy people at any kind of clip.
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Well, it’s not really social Darwinism. Natural selection would dictate that the goddamn moron rabbit that stands in the road staring at the pretty lights is the one that gets its genes removed from the gene pool. But with this, it’s just as likely that some innocent person who is trying to be careful is the one who suffers.
Obesity, lung disease from smoking, diabeetus, immune systems weakened by poor diet or lack of exercise, those with congenital issues that have been kept alive with modern medicine that would have perished early in life in previous times. These seem to be a lot of the people who’ve died from it, pretty much like any other flu. I’d be much more concerned if it were killing young healthy people at any kind of clip.
It’s killing a LOT more young, healthy people than the flu does. We’re probably going to get off easy in this country, with only a couple of hundred thousand deaths. Places with high population densities and poverty like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, etc., are going to lose far more people. Global death tolls will likely never be known, but I would guess it will be somewhere in the 20-30 million range.
-
I mean let’s be honest humanity needs a good moldboard plowing once in a while.
The virus + social Darwinsim = culling of the boneheads. Should work out well for humanity in the end.
Here is an example:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11441636/john-mcdaniel-killed-coronavirus-dismissing-political-ploy/
But we're still having to do things like "Go to the grocery store" - and so does that bonehead. Maybe the bonehead works at the grocery store. Or he's a cop. Or an admin at a hospital.
Who exactly gets culled?
You’re telling me you live in this wonderful modern world compared to the rest of us Neandertals and you can’t get groceries delivered to your exurban McMansion? GMAB.
As far as who gets culled, well it seems to be the old, stupid, and those who haven’t taken care of themselves for years that are among the hardest hit.
Well, it’s not really social Darwinism. Natural selection would dictate that the goddamn moron rabbit that stands in the road staring at the pretty lights is the one that gets its genes removed from the gene pool. But with this, it’s just as likely that some innocent person who is trying to be careful is the one who suffers.
Obesity, lung disease from smoking, diabeetus, immune systems weakened by poor diet or lack of exercise, those with congenital issues that have been kept alive with modern medicine that would have perished early in life in previous times. These seem to be a lot of the people who’ve died from it, pretty much like any other flu. I’d be much more concerned if it were killing young healthy people at any kind of clip.
Not a large clip:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html
-
CNN.com as a news source. You're funny.
-
The Minnesotans I talk with and see interviewed on tv don't hide behind flags and NRA banners. They're social distancing, and concerned about health. And health includes physical health, their family's economic health and the country's economic health.
I doubt if they hid their flags for the tv interviews to talk about closing their businesses and laying off employees.
https://www.startribune.com/re-open-protests-make-important-points/569869862/
These are the folks the rest of us see. Responding to dog whistles? A rebirth of the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus? Wait a minute, didn't the new WH Chief of Staff used to be one of those even as he now supports trillion dollar deficits? My bad, there's no longer an African American President trying to get funding for hurricane relief. I hope most of this goes to help the families you're talking about. We're all in the same lifeboat, so it would help to try and row the same direction.
Since most states encompass a wide diversity of social/economic landscapes, the Governors all face tough decisions with very uneven federal backing. They will be judged, perhaps harshly, when all is said and done. It's relatively simpler to count economic metrics than to try counting lives/families that were spared.
-
CNN.com as a news source. You're funny.
Figured it was ok since Drudge liniked to it. But Trump does hate Drudge now, so you are probably right.
-
The Minnesotans I talk with and see interviewed on tv don't hide behind flags and NRA banners. They're social distancing, and concerned about health. And health includes physical health, their family's economic health and the country's economic health.
I doubt if they hid their flags for the tv interviews to talk about closing their businesses and laying off employees.
https://www.startribune.com/re-open-protests-make-important-points/569869862/
These are the folks the rest of us see. Responding to dog whistles? A rebirth of the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus? Wait a minute, didn't the new WH Chief of Staff used to be one of those even as he now supports trillion dollar deficits? My bad, there's no longer an African American President trying to get funding for hurricane relief. I hope most of this goes to help the families you're talking about. We're all in the same lifeboat, so it would help to try and row the same direction.
Since most states encompass a wide diversity of social/economic landscapes, the Governors all face tough decisions with very uneven federal backing. They will be judged, perhaps harshly, when all is said and done. It's relatively simpler to count economic metrics than to try counting lives/families that were spared.
Yes, we are in the same boat and rowing in the same direction is the hope. Unfortunately, in Michigan you can't even get in your boat unless it's a canoe. I see absolutely zero reason for that.
Minnesota recommendations are immediate family members from under the same roof in a boat. No car pooling with friends, and no friends in the boat. Kids in the boat who are not living at home aren't recommended. It's going to be a weird year ahead of us, but I hope we can take the social distancing and other precautions and continue to apply those to whatever steps are taken to open the economy.
There is plenty of ground between the draconian measures being taken in some locales vs the pushing for a full open economy.
No matter what level of open economy we see, some businesses will adapt and some will fail. We're in a social distancing and precautionary situation until this time next year, plus or minus.
60-70% +/- of the country may be able to agree on which direction to take the boat. It's the other 30-40% +/- who can be the most vocal.
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.
-
in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It's almost as if you didn't have access to the internet.
-
Please refer back to my posts regarding Darwinism
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.
I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.
I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.
Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.
If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?
These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
-
in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It's almost as if you didn't have access to the internet.
Plenty of smart people play dumb characters on the internet.
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
Every state in the US has an agency that requires some form of testing to get a drivers license in order to drive. By your argument, this is an impingement on freedom, individuals should be able to decide for themselves if they have competency to operate a motor vehicle.
-
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
If Trump gave one shit about lessening our economic dependency on China, he and Ivanka would not be selling products manufactured in China. Trump talks about this as a smoke screen to build an image. The use of manufacturing in China isn't some sort of government issued declaration, it is a decision made by corporations, and Trump is a corporatists, remember how his whole mantra was that he's an outsider and businessman.
He isn't designing a strategy to improve the country - Trump is only about Trump. Full stop.
Similarly - lessening our dependency on foreign oil isn't about lessening our dependency on foreign oil, it's about US based oil companies wanting to make more money by getting access to oil fields with subsidy and externalizing the environmental damage. Hey, we fucked up ANWAR but you know, we lessened our dependency on foreign oil. The proper strategy to reduce said dependency, if we were worried about our overall net result, would be to figure out how to use *LESS* oil. But Exxon doesn't profit from that, and if Exxon doesn't profit, they can't contribute money to campaigns.
-
in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It's almost as if you didn't have access to the internet.
Or ever read the Scorat Bored.
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.
I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.
I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.
Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.
If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?
These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
It was supposed to be about slowing the spread so the hospitals do not become overwhelmed so that people that otherwise could be saved, like someone in a car crash, etc., could be saved because the resources were not all being used on the virus.
The death rate is still 2 to 3 x the norm in NY from this. That takes into account all deaths, not just the virus.
At some point things will open up again. It will be shortly and then we will have another wave. The Chinese are seeing it right now.
Yes, we should do what we can to.lessen our dependence on Chinese manufacturing. The problem is that corporate America and the populace love cheap stuff made by Chinese slaves and kids.
-
in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It's almost as if you didn't have access to the internet.
Plenty of smart people play dumb characters on the internet.
And then there are the people like Chieftain.
-
And Gov Walz is letting 100,000 +/- go back to work on Monday, tho our current stay at home was set to run until May 4. Minnesota hasn't peaked, but 70% of the state's 179 deaths have occurred in nursing homes and assisted living facilities.
Those going back will be people with essentially no public contact while working, so it doesn't include tattoo parlors or salons or restaurants.
Some may say the protests impacted the decision, but governments are also facing the possibilities of lost tax revenues that they will not be able to function with. Heaven forbid some government agency closes and never re-opens.
-
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
If Trump gave one shit about lessening our economic dependency on China, he and Ivanka would not be selling products manufactured in China. Trump talks about this as a smoke screen to build an image. The use of manufacturing in China isn't some sort of government issued declaration, it is a decision made by corporations, and Trump is a corporatists, remember how his whole mantra was that he's an outsider and businessman.
He isn't designing a strategy to improve the country - Trump is only about Trump. Full stop.
Similarly - lessening our dependency on foreign oil isn't about lessening our dependency on foreign oil, it's about US based oil companies wanting to make more money by getting access to oil fields with subsidy and externalizing the environmental damage. Hey, we fucked up ANWAR but you know, we lessened our dependency on foreign oil. The proper strategy to reduce said dependency, if we were worried about our overall net result, would be to figure out how to use *LESS* oil. But Exxon doesn't profit from that, and if Exxon doesn't profit, they can't contribute money to campaigns.
Wait what? For years he’s been saying he’ll bring jobs back to the US and has been labeled a nationalist and such. If I had a dime for every time Nichi has lambasted him for his anti-globalist nationalist attitude and policies I could have retired before the stock market crashed. Everyone threw a fit over the tariffs and how that was going to wreck our economy. We’ve been in a trade war with China for some time. Everyone threw a fit over the immigration reform and the wall and the travel ban on Muslims.
In just six weeks time during this shutdown there are cottage industries popping up all over America that are filling the void left by the slowdown in global commerce and products and people moving internationally. He essentially has banned all immigration now. He’s taken all the things people were complaining about previously and now turned them around to the point where people are rooting for the same principles they used to despise. Just under a different guise.
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.
I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.
I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.
Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.
If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?
These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
It was supposed to be about slowing the spread so the hospitals do not become overwhelmed so that people that otherwise could be saved, like someone in a car crash, etc., could be saved because the resources were not all being used on the virus.
The death rate is still 2 to 3 x the norm in NY from this. That takes into account all deaths, not just the virus.
At some point things will open up again. It will be shortly and then we will have another wave. The Chinese are seeing it right now.
Yes, we should do what we can to.lessen our dependence on Chinese manufacturing. The problem is that corporate America and the populace love cheap stuff made by Chinese slaves and kids.
I mean flattening the curve was certainly the story. Ventilators and beds and emergency pop up hospitals and OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. But really it’s the perfect storm for a bunch of BS. So even if the disease isn’t as bad as we thought and all these things never came to fruition it’s simply because THE SHUTDOWN WORKED RIGHT? Kudos to those brilliant people in charge for doing the difficult things necessary to save lives! We flattened the curve!
But what if it just really wasn’t that bad and wouldn’t have been that bad even if we’d have carried on as normal? One could point to northern Italy as an example but there are a lot of factors in play there that made it the prime location for a very bad outbreak. We’ll never know and that’s *probably* a good thing but I’d love to see some stats on what percentage of hospital and healthcare resources have even been allocated to COVID-19 patients.
-
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-sweden-and-norway-handled-coronavirus-differently-2020-4
Hello Sweden!
-
Plenty of smart people play dumb characters on the internet.
I can think of two. (Hi Bonbon!) And on that front, Ken M. liked my Tweet recently.
Many, many more people are just plain stupid.
-
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil.
I like this four-dimensional chess where Big Gubmint is forcing us to cook at home rather than outsourcing our meals.
-
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
If Trump gave one shit about lessening our economic dependency on China, he and Ivanka would not be selling products manufactured in China. Trump talks about this as a smoke screen to build an image. The use of manufacturing in China isn't some sort of government issued declaration, it is a decision made by corporations, and Trump is a corporatists, remember how his whole mantra was that he's an outsider and businessman.
He isn't designing a strategy to improve the country - Trump is only about Trump. Full stop.
Similarly - lessening our dependency on foreign oil isn't about lessening our dependency on foreign oil, it's about US based oil companies wanting to make more money by getting access to oil fields with subsidy and externalizing the environmental damage. Hey, we fucked up ANWAR but you know, we lessened our dependency on foreign oil. The proper strategy to reduce said dependency, if we were worried about our overall net result, would be to figure out how to use *LESS* oil. But Exxon doesn't profit from that, and if Exxon doesn't profit, they can't contribute money to campaigns.
Wait what? For years he’s been saying he’ll bring jobs back to the US and has been labeled a nationalist and such. If I had a dime for every time Nichi has lambasted him for his anti-globalist nationalist attitude and policies I could have retired before the stock market crashed. Everyone threw a fit over the tariffs and how that was going to wreck our economy. We’ve been in a trade war with China for some time. Everyone threw a fit over the immigration reform and the wall and the travel ban on Muslims.
In just six weeks time during this shutdown there are cottage industries popping up all over America that are filling the void left by the slowdown in global commerce and products and people moving internationally. He essentially has banned all immigration now. He’s taken all the things people were complaining about previously and now turned them around to the point where people are rooting for the same principles they used to despise. Just under a different guise.
Nice Try.
Saying that Trump is lying when he says he is trying to do thing A, is not saying that thing A is a good thing to try to do.
And saying that doesn't mean that what Trump is actually doing is good.
-
I mean flattening the curve was certainly the story. Ventilators and beds and emergency pop up hospitals and OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. But really it’s the perfect storm for a bunch of BS. So even if the disease isn’t as bad as we thought and all these things never came to fruition it’s simply because THE SHUTDOWN WORKED RIGHT? Kudos to those brilliant people in charge for doing the difficult things necessary to save lives! We flattened the curve!
But what if it just really wasn’t that bad and wouldn’t have been that bad even if we’d have carried on as normal? One could point to northern Italy as an example but there are a lot of factors in play there that made it the prime location for a very bad outbreak. We’ll never know and that’s *probably* a good thing but I’d love to see some stats on what percentage of hospital and healthcare resources have even been allocated to COVID-19 patients.
We've shut the country down and we already have 50k deaths - which would be a extremely bad flu season, and we will probably go over 100k because the case load isn't slowing - only the *rise* in case load is slowing. If we hadn't shut things down it would be much, much worse.
-
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil.
I like this four-dimensional chess where Big Gubmint is forcing us to cook at home rather than outsourcing our meals.
It’s almost like Big Gubmint isn’t capable of things like false WMDs and Iran-Contra or Vietnam or any of the other million times the American people have had the wool pulled over their eyes.
-
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
If Trump gave one shit about lessening our economic dependency on China, he and Ivanka would not be selling products manufactured in China. Trump talks about this as a smoke screen to build an image. The use of manufacturing in China isn't some sort of government issued declaration, it is a decision made by corporations, and Trump is a corporatists, remember how his whole mantra was that he's an outsider and businessman.
He isn't designing a strategy to improve the country - Trump is only about Trump. Full stop.
Similarly - lessening our dependency on foreign oil isn't about lessening our dependency on foreign oil, it's about US based oil companies wanting to make more money by getting access to oil fields with subsidy and externalizing the environmental damage. Hey, we fucked up ANWAR but you know, we lessened our dependency on foreign oil. The proper strategy to reduce said dependency, if we were worried about our overall net result, would be to figure out how to use *LESS* oil. But Exxon doesn't profit from that, and if Exxon doesn't profit, they can't contribute money to campaigns.
Wait what? For years he’s been saying he’ll bring jobs back to the US and has been labeled a nationalist and such. If I had a dime for every time Nichi has lambasted him for his anti-globalist nationalist attitude and policies I could have retired before the stock market crashed. Everyone threw a fit over the tariffs and how that was going to wreck our economy. We’ve been in a trade war with China for some time. Everyone threw a fit over the immigration reform and the wall and the travel ban on Muslims.
In just six weeks time during this shutdown there are cottage industries popping up all over America that are filling the void left by the slowdown in global commerce and products and people moving internationally. He essentially has banned all immigration now. He’s taken all the things people were complaining about previously and now turned them around to the point where people are rooting for the same principles they used to despise. Just under a different guise.
Nice Try.
Saying that Trump is lying when he says he is trying to do thing A, is not saying that thing A is a good thing to try to do.
And saying that doesn't mean that what Trump is actually doing is good.
Who said it was good? You argue like my wife. Just because I point out some facts doesn’t mean I am enthusiastic they exist.
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.
I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.
I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.
Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.
If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?
These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
It was supposed to be about slowing the spread so the hospitals do not become overwhelmed so that people that otherwise could be saved, like someone in a car crash, etc., could be saved because the resources were not all being used on the virus.
The death rate is still 2 to 3 x the norm in NY from this. That takes into account all deaths, not just the virus.
At some point things will open up again. It will be shortly and then we will have another wave. The Chinese are seeing it right now.
Yes, we should do what we can to.lessen our dependence on Chinese manufacturing. The problem is that corporate America and the populace love cheap stuff made by Chinese slaves and kids.
I mean flattening the curve was certainly the story. Ventilators and beds and emergency pop up hospitals and OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. But really it’s the perfect storm for a bunch of BS. So even if the disease isn’t as bad as we thought and all these things never came to fruition it’s simply because THE SHUTDOWN WORKED RIGHT? Kudos to those brilliant people in charge for doing the difficult things necessary to save lives! We flattened the curve!
But what if it just really wasn’t that bad and wouldn’t have been that bad even if we’d have carried on as normal? One could point to northern Italy as an example but there are a lot of factors in play there that made it the prime location for a very bad outbreak. We’ll never know and that’s *probably* a good thing but I’d love to see some stats on what percentage of hospital and healthcare resources have even been allocated to COVID-19 patients.
Except we do know. We have seen what has happened in NY, Sweden, etc. We know in places that have been hit hard by this the number of deaths are 2 to 3, if not more, times the average and, in some places, hospitals are overrun and forced to ration resources. I don't get what you don't get in this regard. It is all about giving the medical profession time to figure out the best way to deal with this to avoid greater carnage when we do open things back up. With the time being spent and the precautions being put into place hopefully there will not be a second wave as bad as expected in the fall.
-
We don’t know what would have happened here if the lockdown hadn’t happened, only models and educated guesses. NYC isn’t exactly a great representation of the USA as a whole. It’s probably the most ideal place for a virus to spread efficiently. Like, COVID-19 probably got a virus boner when it arrived in New York.
I don’t think I’m missing anything here, just presenting a contrarian view to the usual talking points surrounding this whole mess. And I asked for some statistics showing where our medical resources are being strained by this. Just regular medical resources, not the emergency backup sources. I haven’t heard anything about ventilators lately how are we doing there?
-
We don’t know what would have happened here if the lockdown hadn’t happened, only models and educated guesses. NYC isn’t exactly a great representation of the USA as a whole. It’s probably the most ideal place for a virus to spread efficiently. Like, COVID-19 probably got a virus boner when it arrived in New York.
I don’t think I’m missing anything here, just presenting a contrarian view to the usual talking points surrounding this whole mess. And I asked for some statistics showing where our medical resources are being strained by this. Just regular medical resources, not the emergency backup sources. I haven’t heard anything about ventilators lately how are we doing there?
It's difficult to know what to do when the world receives a surprise package of shit from the CCP and told not to worry in that there is no evidence of human to human transmission.
We'll skip the its been incubating in Wuhan for weeks part and the no treatment, no cure, no vaccine, and no shit it can be deadly part. Good luck to the free world, joke is on you.
Hopefully we're getting thru the 1st wave and the 2nd wave, if there is one, is not as devastating.
-
Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”
More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/
Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.
Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19
In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/
Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!
-
Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”
More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/
Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.
Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19
In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/
Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!
You’re ignorant. Trump tried to close the borders and immigration from China, yet he was called a racist by you liberals. Your girl, Nancy Pelosi was waltzing through Chinatown in NY saying there was no problem. Oh the hypocrisy.
Continue to spread your fake news.
-
I find it fascinating how people pick and choose which government information to believe.
-
We don’t know what would have happened here if the lockdown hadn’t happened, only models and educated guesses. NYC isn’t exactly a great representation of the USA as a whole. It’s probably the most ideal place for a virus to spread efficiently. Like, COVID-19 probably got a virus boner when it arrived in New York.
I don’t think I’m missing anything here, just presenting a contrarian view to the usual talking points surrounding this whole mess. And I asked for some statistics showing where our medical resources are being strained by this. Just regular medical resources, not the emergency backup sources. I haven’t heard anything about ventilators lately how are we doing there?
We know exactly what would have happened without a lockdown. It happened in Italy. It happened in Spain. Health care was rationed because capacity was far exceeded. Older people and people with comorbidities were told not to even bother coming into the hospital because they would get no bed. Death tolls in Italy are vastly underreported (by maybe 50% or more) because only hospital deaths are counted. All of the people who died in their homes or in nursing homes are not counted. It would have been chaos.
Some goddamned idiot southern governor is going to create the same situation in his state, and we will get to see it happen. Watch.
-
Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”
More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/
Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.
Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19
In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/
Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!
You’re ignorant. Trump tried to close the borders and immigration from China, yet he was called a racist by you liberals. Your girl, Nancy Pelosi was waltzing through Chinatown in NY saying there was no problem. Oh the hypocrisy.
Continue to spread your fake news.
bullshit. Trump was accused of xenophobia and discrimination because he extended his immigration restrictions to more African and Muslim countries. Nothing to do with the pandemic. In another context he used the term 'china virus' in a way that was likely to stir up anti-asian sentiment. Also, he restricted travel from China, did not close it.
-
We don’t know what would have happened here if the lockdown hadn’t happened, only models and educated guesses. NYC isn’t exactly a great representation of the USA as a whole. It’s probably the most ideal place for a virus to spread efficiently. Like, COVID-19 probably got a virus boner when it arrived in New York.
I don’t think I’m missing anything here, just presenting a contrarian view to the usual talking points surrounding this whole mess. And I asked for some statistics showing where our medical resources are being strained by this. Just regular medical resources, not the emergency backup sources. I haven’t heard anything about ventilators lately how are we doing there?
Grade A Concern Troll
-
Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”
More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/
Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.
Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19
In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/
Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!
You’re ignorant. Trump tried to close the borders and immigration from China, yet he was called a racist by you liberals. Your girl, Nancy Pelosi was waltzing through Chinatown in NY saying there was no problem. Oh the hypocrisy.
Continue to spread your fake news.
What does closing the border down or not have to do with testing, social distancing, protective equipment, or ventilators?
Had Trump nailed that stuff, he'd be a hero and cruise to re-election.
-
Just think if Trump hadn’t downplayed or ignored the early warnings on coronavirus from his medical and security advisors as it was emerging from China, leading to a delayed response. As early as January 29, Trump received a memo from trade advisor Peter Navarro, urging serious action to fight the virus or “leave Americans defenseless.”
More Evidence Shows White House Saw Pandemic Coming
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/u-s-senate-passes-484-billion-coronavirus-aid-bill/
Just think if Trump had developed a national testing strategy to help states get a head of the virus and ease social distancing. Remember the coronavirus testing flowchart and Google website that he said in early March would solve the testing crisis? Now states are being forced to develop their own testing systems.
Americans are still waiting for Trump’s coronavirus flowchart to become reality
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21197026/trump-coronavirus-testing-website-plan-google-covid-19
In the absence of a national testing strategy, states go their own way
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/07/testing-coronavirus-trump/
Unfortunately, we have a cowardly nitwit at the helm who does not believe in governing or science. Pass the Clorox Chewables!
You’re ignorant. Trump tried to close the borders and immigration from China, yet he was called a racist by you liberals. Your girl, Nancy Pelosi was waltzing through Chinatown in NY saying there was no problem. Oh the hypocrisy.
Continue to spread your fake news.
What does closing the border down or not have to do with testing, social distancing, protective equipment, or ventilators?
Had Trump nailed that stuff, he'd be a hero and cruise to re-election.
His re-election would have been a slam-dunk. But we all know that analyzing Trump through any rational basis is always tough. It seems clear that he's terrified of having any responsibility or being held accountable for any of this. Plus, testing and contact tracing is way too sciencey. Short of buying a cure or cutting a ribbon at the “Reopening of America” ceremony he has in his head, Trump does not want to manage the crisis at all. Hard work is not part of his lifestyle.
-
[/quote]
bullshit. Trump was accused of xenophobia and discrimination because he extended his immigration restrictions to more African and Muslim countries. Nothing to do with the pandemic. In another context he used the term 'china virus' in a way that was likely to stir up anti-asian sentiment. Also, he restricted travel from China, did not close it.
[/quote]
He used ‘China virus’ because Communist China tried to pin it in our military. And what’s even more sad is people in our own country will and did believe them. He had to allow US nationals the right to come back to America and couldn’t completely shut it down. Along with those countries you listed, he implemented a ban from all of Europe too. Yet he still gets criticized. So again, he’s explained this. Yet our media continues to spread blatant lies and fake news.
Trump could tell people to eat their vegetables and greens and the media would spin it to say he told people to go eat the grass outta their yards. How fucking stupid can people be?! They’ll do ANYTHING to try and make him look bad or remove him. Pelosi even said do. The Democratic Party is in shambles and they are completely insane.
-
bullshit. Trump was accused of xenophobia and discrimination because he extended his immigration restrictions to more African and Muslim countries. Nothing to do with the pandemic. In another context he used the term 'china virus' in a way that was likely to stir up anti-asian sentiment. Also, he restricted travel from China, did not close it.
[/quote][/b]
He used ‘China virus’ because Communist China tried to pin it in our military. And what’s even more sad is people in our own country will and did believe them. He had to allow US nationals the right to come back to America and couldn’t completely shut it down. Along with those countries you listed, he implemented a ban from all of Europe too. Yet he still gets criticized. So again, he’s explained this. Yet our media continues to spread blatant lies and fake news.
Trump could tell people to eat their vegetables and greens and the media would spin it to say he told people to go eat the grass outta their yards. How fucking stupid can people be?! They’ll do ANYTHING to try and make him look bad or remove him. Pelosi even said do. The Democratic Party is in shambles and they are completely insane.
[/quote]
sigh
“The Trump Administration’s expansion of its outrageous, un-American travel ban threatens our security, our values and the rule of law. The sweeping rule, barring more than 350 million individuals from predominantly African nations from traveling to the United States, is discrimination disguised as policy,” Pelosi said in a statement.
The statement comes after the Trump administration announced it would restrict the ability of immigrants from Nigeria, Myanmar, Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Sudan and Tanzania to get certain immigration visas.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/480991-pelosi-trumps-expanded-travel-ban-is-outrageous-un-american-and-threatens-rule
-
bullshit. Trump was accused of xenophobia and discrimination because he extended his immigration restrictions to more African and Muslim countries. Nothing to do with the pandemic. In another context he used the term 'china virus' in a way that was likely to stir up anti-asian sentiment. Also, he restricted travel from China, did not close it.
[/b]
He used ‘China virus’ because Communist China tried to pin it in our military. And what’s even more sad is people in our own country will and did believe them. He had to allow US nationals the right to come back to America and couldn’t completely shut it down. Along with those countries you listed, he implemented a ban from all of Europe too. Yet he still gets criticized. So again, he’s explained this. Yet our media continues to spread blatant lies and fake news.
Trump could tell people to eat their vegetables and greens and the media would spin it to say he told people to go eat the grass outta their yards. How fucking stupid can people be?! They’ll do ANYTHING to try and make him look bad or remove him. Pelosi even said do. The Democratic Party is in shambles and they are completely insane.
[/quote]
sigh
“The Trump Administration’s expansion of its outrageous, un-American travel ban threatens our security, our values and the rule of law. The sweeping rule, barring more than 350 million individuals from predominantly African nations from traveling to the United States, is discrimination disguised as policy,” Pelosi said in a statement.
The statement comes after the Trump administration announced it would restrict the ability of immigrants from Nigeria, Myanmar, Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Sudan and Tanzania to get certain immigration visas.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/480991-pelosi-trumps-expanded-travel-ban-is-outrageous-un-american-and-threatens-rule
[/quote]
Well of course Pelosi is gonna day that. She’s drunk again and batshit crazy.
-
They don't have to make stuff up. It's all captured in HD.
-
(https://i.ibb.co/n0sSfM3/733444-AB-ACE2-4-D45-93-DE-1-AED4-DED28-C6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BPVRj24)
upload (https://imgbb.com/)
-
They don't have to make stuff up. It's all captured in HD.
You have to account for fact resistance syndrome.
-
They don't have to make stuff up. It's all captured in HD.
You have to account for fact resistance syndrome.
Who makes facts? How do you know they’re facts? Unless you see it with your own two eyes facts are just products.
-
They don't have to make stuff up. It's all captured in HD.
You have to account for fact resistance syndrome.
Who makes facts? How do you know they’re facts? Unless you see it with your own two eyes facts are just products.
I did not see the Illini lose the National Championship Game this year - ergo they won
-
Who makes facts? How do you know they’re facts? Unless you see it with your own two eyes facts are just products.
DJT makes facts. I saw it with my own eyes.
-
They don't have to make stuff up. It's all captured in HD.
You have to account for fact resistance syndrome.
Who makes facts? How do you know they’re facts? Unless you see it with your own two eyes facts are just products.
FRS: I know he said this, but he really meant that. No, the sky is not blue. It's gray. Ok, maybe it is blue, but grass is not green. It is brown. Anyway, I was being sarcastic.
-
Who makes facts? How do you know they’re facts? Unless you see it with your own two eyes facts are just products.
DJT makes facts. I saw it with my own eyes.
Fake news. He never said that. Even if he did, it was a perfect thing to say.
-
I wonder how the MAGAts will respond when Trump goes to prison for insurance fraud.
-
Just enjoy the ride
-
Now it's "When we said we had 4 Million tests and anyone who needs a test can get a test back in March, we were spot on correct. Anyone could take a test! They just couldn't get any results!"
-
What does closing the border down or not have to do with testing, social distancing, protective equipment, or ventilators?
Had Trump nailed that stuff, he'd be a hero and cruise to re-election.
Hell, had Trump nailed border closures and airport management he may have cruised to reelection by punting on social distancing, testing, and PPE to local government discretion. All he had to do was take it seriously in speech and action and not use it as a vehicle to continue his asinine anti-Chinese narrative while claiming it wasn't a big deal here. I mean, FFS, the guy claimed on February 26 (almost a month post-pandemic declaration) that we'd be at 0 soon.
Restricting travel from the Wuhan area made sense in January. What didn't make sense, if that was your containment route, was leaving other international travel unaffected when coronavirus was already in Europe on 2/1. So it's a tall order to give dipstick any praise for border management and travel restrictions when we had C19 regularly hitting JFK airport for 30+ days. Then when he did act, he had to be reminded that the UK and Ireland were part of Europe, and he had no rational plan for not making a clusterfuck out of our international airports when he did announce broader restrictions.
You also lose a great deal of moral leadership to do these difficult things when your default policy for years has been one of xenophobia and hostility to any political leader who isn't a buttlicking toad. Believe it or not, we've had crises in this country where the President and opposition party are effectively on the same page.
-
What does closing the border down or not have to do with testing, social distancing, protective equipment, or ventilators?
Had Trump nailed that stuff, he'd be a hero and cruise to re-election.
his asinine anti-Chinese narrative
While I agree that he ignored all the warnings provided by his own administration and his rhetoric is usually unseemly, how is the narrative against the fucking commie assholes running China wrong? Fuck those assholes. Those guys are scum, lied about the virus, steal our IP, use slave labor (and our corporate overlords here enable them). Hopefully Xi chokes on his own vomit and manufacturers leave that third world shithole in droves and the SARS spreading idiots who.eat bats can just kill each other.
-
Just enjoy the ride
Clayton Williams offered similar advice.
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.
I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.
I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.
Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.
If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?
These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
It was supposed to be about slowing the spread so the hospitals do not become overwhelmed so that people that otherwise could be saved, like someone in a car crash, etc., could be saved because the resources were not all being used on the virus.
The death rate is still 2 to 3 x the norm in NY from this. That takes into account all deaths, not just the virus.
At some point things will open up again. It will be shortly and then we will have another wave. The Chinese are seeing it right now.
Yes, we should do what we can to.lessen our dependence on Chinese manufacturing. The problem is that corporate America and the populace love cheap stuff made by Chinese slaves and kids.
I mean flattening the curve was certainly the story. Ventilators and beds and emergency pop up hospitals and OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. But really it’s the perfect storm for a bunch of BS. So even if the disease isn’t as bad as we thought and all these things never came to fruition it’s simply because THE SHUTDOWN WORKED RIGHT? Kudos to those brilliant people in charge for doing the difficult things necessary to save lives! We flattened the curve!
But what if it just really wasn’t that bad and wouldn’t have been that bad even if we’d have carried on as normal? One could point to northern Italy as an example but there are a lot of factors in play there that made it the prime location for a very bad outbreak. We’ll never know and that’s *probably* a good thing but I’d love to see some stats on what percentage of hospital and healthcare resources have even been allocated to COVID-19 patients.
Except we do know. We have seen what has happened in NY, Sweden, etc. We know in places that have been hit hard by this the number of deaths are 2 to 3, if not more, times the average and, in some places, hospitals are overrun and forced to ration resources. I don't get what you don't get in this regard. It is all about giving the medical profession time to figure out the best way to deal with this to avoid greater carnage when we do open things back up. With the time being spent and the precautions being put into place hopefully there will not be a second wave as bad as expected in the fall.
bullshit
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
sweden is basically right on par with every other western country and they didn't destroy their economy in the process
-
What does closing the border down or not have to do with testing, social distancing, protective equipment, or ventilators?
Had Trump nailed that stuff, he'd be a hero and cruise to re-election.
his asinine anti-Chinese narrative
While I agree that he ignored all the warnings provided by his own administration and his rhetoric is usually unseemly, how is the narrative against the fucking commie assholes running China wrong? Fuck those assholes. Those guys are scum, lied about the virus, steal our IP, use slave labor (and our corporate overlords here enable them). Hopefully Xi chokes on his own vomit and manufacturers leave that third world shithole in droves and the SARS spreading idiots who.eat bats can just kill each other.
Well…I think it’s more the way Trump and his enablers have advanced the anti-Chinese narrative. To distract from his dangerous rhetoric, lies and mismanagement of the crisis.
China deserves a major share of the blame and we should be working to put in place international agreements and sanctions to avert pandemics, starting with closing live animal markets, combating wild animals trafficking and changing wildlife consumption behaviors https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/ban-live-animal-markets-pandemics-un-biodiversity-chief-age-of-extinction). But that would require hard work, cooperating with the EU, Japan, Canada and others to pressure China and other countries.
Me: I’d like to see a Nuremberg-type international tribunal. Put Xi and his cronies on trial first for crimes against humanity, followed by Trump, Hannity and Ingrahm.
-
What does closing the border down or not have to do with testing, social distancing, protective equipment, or ventilators?
Had Trump nailed that stuff, he'd be a hero and cruise to re-election.
his asinine anti-Chinese narrative
While I agree that he ignored all the warnings provided by his own administration and his rhetoric is usually unseemly, how is the narrative against the fucking commie assholes running China wrong? Fuck those assholes. Those guys are scum, lied about the virus, steal our IP, use slave labor (and our corporate overlords here enable them). Hopefully Xi chokes on his own vomit and manufacturers leave that third world shithole in droves and the SARS spreading idiots who.eat bats can just kill each other.
Well…I think it’s more the way Trump and his enablers have advanced the anti-Chinese narrative. To distract from his dangerous rhetoric, lies and mismanagement of the crisis.
China deserves a major share of the blame and we should be working to put in place international agreements and sanctions to avert pandemics, starting with closing live animal markets, combating wild animals trafficking and changing wildlife consumption behaviors https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/ban-live-animal-markets-pandemics-un-biodiversity-chief-age-of-extinction). But that would require hard work, cooperating with the EU, Japan, Canada and others to pressure China and other countries.
Me: I’d like to see a Nuremberg-type international tribunal. Put Xi and his cronies on trial first for crimes against humanity, followed by Trump, Hannity and Ingrahm.
Now we are getting somewhere.
-
It would be a lot easier if the Deep State could just kill off all the people it hates, and not bother with this whole "virus" conspiracy, amirite?
Obviously they have the means ...
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.
I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.
I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.
Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.
If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?
These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
It was supposed to be about slowing the spread so the hospitals do not become overwhelmed so that people that otherwise could be saved, like someone in a car crash, etc., could be saved because the resources were not all being used on the virus.
The death rate is still 2 to 3 x the norm in NY from this. That takes into account all deaths, not just the virus.
At some point things will open up again. It will be shortly and then we will have another wave. The Chinese are seeing it right now.
Yes, we should do what we can to.lessen our dependence on Chinese manufacturing. The problem is that corporate America and the populace love cheap stuff made by Chinese slaves and kids.
I mean flattening the curve was certainly the story. Ventilators and beds and emergency pop up hospitals and OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. But really it’s the perfect storm for a bunch of BS. So even if the disease isn’t as bad as we thought and all these things never came to fruition it’s simply because THE SHUTDOWN WORKED RIGHT? Kudos to those brilliant people in charge for doing the difficult things necessary to save lives! We flattened the curve!
But what if it just really wasn’t that bad and wouldn’t have been that bad even if we’d have carried on as normal? One could point to northern Italy as an example but there are a lot of factors in play there that made it the prime location for a very bad outbreak. We’ll never know and that’s *probably* a good thing but I’d love to see some stats on what percentage of hospital and healthcare resources have even been allocated to COVID-19 patients.
Except we do know. We have seen what has happened in NY, Sweden, etc. We know in places that have been hit hard by this the number of deaths are 2 to 3, if not more, times the average and, in some places, hospitals are overrun and forced to ration resources. I don't get what you don't get in this regard. It is all about giving the medical profession time to figure out the best way to deal with this to avoid greater carnage when we do open things back up. With the time being spent and the precautions being put into place hopefully there will not be a second wave as bad as expected in the fall.
bullshit
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
sweden is basically right on par with every other western country and they didn't destroy their economy in the process
Something smells rotten in...not Denmark, because its deaths per capita are much lower than Swedens!
-
When I visited Helsingør last summer, I learned that you can see Helsingborg from Helsingør. I also learned that Helsingør is called Helsingør, and not Elsinore.
-
HQ is so much better without censorship
-
Does anyone actually believe there isn’t a “deep state?”
Just because it’s become a Trumpism doesn’t mean it isn’t true. The same people who protested the war in Iraq and Occupy Wall Street now deny there’s not non-government manipulation of our government?
-
Does anyone actually believe there isn’t a “deep state?”
Just because it’s become a Trumpism doesn’t mean it isn’t true. The same people who protested the war in Iraq and Occupy Wall Street now deny there’s not non-government manipulation of our government?
There is no "deep state". In order to pull off the level of power to actually accomplish the "Deep state" type stuff that the wingnuts believe is happening, you'd need thousands of people, completely committed to that cause and able to have complete and utter secrecy.
Aside from the complete improbability of this, how the hell do you recruit more people to join in the deep state? You'd have to have a really good vetting process, because when you finally accept someone into the "deep state" and let them in on the secret, if they aren't down with that, then you'd have to kill them.
It's one thing to produce a couple Jason Bournes, it's another to produce thousands.
Then we get into things where they discuss super secret technology that the deep state has at its disposal. I'd like to ask Crazy Trumpist Scott Adams how he can have an entire career about how technology companies with thousands of people are run like zoos - yet still believe that some deep state has thousands of engineers desiging secret technology, manufacturing it at sites nobody knows about, and not having hundreds of disgruntled engineers saying screw this, I'm going to go to Apple and make 10x the money to work on stuff that I can actually tell my friends exists.
I mean, I did an internship at an Aerospace firm that did black projects. You had to get clearance to work on black projects, but the same bench would move from some super secret missile guidance system one year to working on Hubbel the next. You had to have clearance to work in the black building but everyone parked in the same lot and ate in the same cafeteria, so any given person on a black project was just as prone to oddball interoffice bitching and politics as the next guy.
The biggest thing is "what's the motivation" of the deep state? To keep the riff raff in West Virginia down? The riff raff is doing just fine keeping themselves down on their own.
-
There's certainly a permanent Washington establishment. I've met them.
I had a meeting with Republican ad maker Greg Stevens in 1993. He took a call from some Big Gun five minutes into it, and sent me off with his assistant Winston Lord II. I didn't know who Winston Lord was, but I found out.
Irving Kristol begat Bill Kristol. Cyrus Vance begat Cyrus Vance. Henry Wallace begat Henry Wallace. Harold Ickes begat Harold Ickes.
Clintons, Bushes, Kennedys. Don't even get me started about the Duncan Hunters.
The weird thing, to me, is how most MAGAts have embraced/excused Trump's monarchical tendencies. These people are already advocating Jr. in '24 and Ivanka '32.
-
There's certainly a permanent Washington establishment. I've met them.
I had a meeting with Republican ad maker Greg Stevens in 1993. He took a call from some Big Gun five minutes into it, and sent me off with his assistant Winston Lord II. I didn't know who Winston Lord was, but I found out.
Irving Kristol begat Bill Kristol. Cyrus Vance begat Cyrus Vance. Henry Wallace begat Henry Wallace. Harold Ickes begat Harold Ickes.
Clintons, Bushes, Kennedys. Don't even get me started about the Duncan Hunters.
The weird thing, to me, is how most MAGAts have embraced/excused Trump's monarchical tendencies. These people are already advocating Jr. in '24 and Ivanka '32.
The fact you know about all this is evidence against the presence of a "Deep state"
-
We obviously have different ideas of what “deep state” means
-
It really all depends on what you mean by "deep state."
If it means there's a professional civil service that ensures continuity of ideology and policy across administrations to keep our nation running, and sometimes pushes back when political leaders or top-level hires try to get out of line, there is obviously a deep state.
It's also reasonable to assume that politicians, top political appointees and interest groups (businesses, unions, agriculture, defense, etc.) cooperate to make day-to-day government operations predictable and favorable to their concerns, because why wouldn't they use that power? That’s human nature.
But people take this idea and then build whole "deep state" conspiracy theories, channeling fear/anger, that demonize just about everyone in the world. You can see that paranoia/vivid imaginations in websites like Infowars on the right and Moon of Alabama on the left.
-
It really all depends on what you mean by "deep state."
If it means there's a professional civil service that ensures continuity of ideology and policy across administrations to keep our nation running, and sometimes pushes back when political leaders or top-level hires try to get out of line, there is obviously a deep state.
It's also reasonable to assume that politicians, top political appointees and interest groups (businesses, unions, agriculture, defense, etc.) cooperate to make day-to-day government operations predictable and favorable to their concerns, because why wouldn't they use that power? That’s human nature.
But people take this idea and then build whole "deep state" conspiracy theories, channeling fear/anger, that demonize just about everyone in the world. You can see that paranoia/vivid imaginations in websites like Infowars on the right and Moon of Alabama on the left.
The Deep State was always trying to overthrow the President and kill Jack Bauer on "24."
-
I don’t consume such information which is why I don’t have any idea about what Murph is talking about. I do believe that politicians and presidents are products/puppets for big money, special interest groups, the military-industrial complex, etc.
-
It really all depends on what you mean by "deep state."
If it means there's a professional civil service that ensures continuity of ideology and policy across administrations to keep our nation running, and sometimes pushes back when political leaders or top-level hires try to get out of line, there is obviously a deep state.
It's also reasonable to assume that politicians, top political appointees and interest groups (businesses, unions, agriculture, defense, etc.) cooperate to make day-to-day government operations predictable and favorable to their concerns, because why wouldn't they use that power? That’s human nature.
But people take this idea and then build whole "deep state" conspiracy theories, channeling fear/anger, that demonize just about everyone in the world. You can see that paranoia/vivid imaginations in websites like Infowars on the right and Moon of Alabama on the left.
The Deep State was always trying to overthrow the President and kill Jack Bauer on "24."
I’m so old I remember back in the 70s the Trilateral Commission was running the world on behalf of globalist kingpin David Rockefeller and the wealthy.
-
I don’t consume such information which is why I don’t have any idea about what Murph is talking about. I do believe that politicians and presidents are products/puppets for big money, special interest groups, the military-industrial complex, etc.
That's not a secret. The whole Alex Jones/QAnon Deep State theory basically implies that there is a *secret* cabal that is controlling things behind the curtain. So somehow there is a room of people being paid by George Soros to countervene the President. If that were true, they aren't very competent.
-
I don’t see a whole lot of discussion about personal liberty from the limited amount of news consumption I do. There’s no shortage of education and information out there regarding the risks and preventative measures, so I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions as to how and when they want to interact socially and economically.
Now all you government loving nanny state aficionados will argue that Americans are simply too stupid to handle this without the government forcing them to adhere to these completely contradicting guidelines from state to state. And maybe you’re right.
But the way I see it people have been armed with knowledge to make good decisions and take proper precautions. Let people who want to go back to work go back to work. Let them and their families decide how to take precautions and protect their loved ones in their own household.
At the end of the day it’s not really much different than trusting people with gun ownership, driving a car, walking around with untreated drug addiction or mental illness, AIDS, etc. At any given time any given person can cause untold numbers of deaths and destruction, but in general people aren’t as bad and stupid as they’re made out to be.
It’s actually more akin to vaccination. Just like with people who refuse to vaccinate or child, the victim of their selfish actions is not likely to be themselves or their child. Instead, it will be someone who is older, more fragile, immune-compromised, etc. I’m OK with people not being legally allowed to be that selfish.
I mean I get your stance, yet each and every year millions of people knowingly and unknowingly go to work with influenza A or B or other serious infectious diseases. They go to other functions and sporting events and church. They unwittingly, perhaps selfishly in certain instances, get other people sick or dead. My viewpoint is that caution is obviously prudent, yet we are on a slippery slope here.
I think it’s hard to draw a hard line between shutting down the entire country indefinitely and what the acceptable collateral damage from the actual threat is. Which is essentially the battle that’s being fought right now at every level of government and public policy.
Now in a different and better world, we could shut down the country and everyone would have full access to supplies and healthcare and money and some sense of security. However our society isn’t constructed that way and therefore the shutdown has caused literally incalculable financial damage to businesses and individuals that will take a long time from which to recover. If the goal is to save every life possible from COVID-19 that’s a noble gesture but we have to look at the bigger picture to see what trickle down effects that this single minded policy has.
If this causes a 5 or 10 year economic depression that ends up costing hundreds of thousands or millions of lives to poverty, disease, suicide, increased substance abuse, families’ savings and property values destroyed, financial inability to properly care for children, etc, of people in the prime of their lives, was it worth it to save tens of thousands of lives of the *mostly* elderly and generally unhealthy in 2020?
These are the kinds of conversations that are taking place and also the kind of arguments that get used to make decisions in wars, such as the decision to drop the bombs on Japan in WWII. It’s a no win situation. Someone has to draw the line in the sand, Dude, and across this you DO NOT...Also, Dude, the Chinaman may be the issue here. We are basically in an economic hot war with China ATM and the COVID situation is really just window dressing.
It’s about forcing re-nationalizing manufacturing and lessening our economic dependency on China in the same way we used to talk about lessening our dependence on foreign oil. This is something Trump has been talking about for ages. So while everyone is arguing over reopening the country and using this as a political football for business owners and the newly unemployed to clash with the people seeking the moral high ground of safety at all costs, a lot of chess is being played on the global level.
It was supposed to be about slowing the spread so the hospitals do not become overwhelmed so that people that otherwise could be saved, like someone in a car crash, etc., could be saved because the resources were not all being used on the virus.
The death rate is still 2 to 3 x the norm in NY from this. That takes into account all deaths, not just the virus.
At some point things will open up again. It will be shortly and then we will have another wave. The Chinese are seeing it right now.
Yes, we should do what we can to.lessen our dependence on Chinese manufacturing. The problem is that corporate America and the populace love cheap stuff made by Chinese slaves and kids.
I mean flattening the curve was certainly the story. Ventilators and beds and emergency pop up hospitals and OMG WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. But really it’s the perfect storm for a bunch of BS. So even if the disease isn’t as bad as we thought and all these things never came to fruition it’s simply because THE SHUTDOWN WORKED RIGHT? Kudos to those brilliant people in charge for doing the difficult things necessary to save lives! We flattened the curve!
But what if it just really wasn’t that bad and wouldn’t have been that bad even if we’d have carried on as normal? One could point to northern Italy as an example but there are a lot of factors in play there that made it the prime location for a very bad outbreak. We’ll never know and that’s *probably* a good thing but I’d love to see some stats on what percentage of hospital and healthcare resources have even been allocated to COVID-19 patients.
Except we do know. We have seen what has happened in NY, Sweden, etc. We know in places that have been hit hard by this the number of deaths are 2 to 3, if not more, times the average and, in some places, hospitals are overrun and forced to ration resources. I don't get what you don't get in this regard. It is all about giving the medical profession time to figure out the best way to deal with this to avoid greater carnage when we do open things back up. With the time being spent and the precautions being put into place hopefully there will not be a second wave as bad as expected in the fall.
bullshit
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
sweden is basically right on par with every other western country and they didn't destroy their economy in the process
Except it’s really far from being over. Everyone who doubted the danger of this virus is going to look really fucking stupid in a few more months.
-
Except it’s really far from being over. Everyone who doubted the danger of this virus is going to look really fucking stupid in a few more months.
Everyone is calming down because the cases *per day* isn't rising, it's "plateaued" on a per day basis. That doesn't mean that the number of cases has stopped rising, just not accellerating.
I tried to explain this to someone - I finally tried this analogy - "If your car goes from zero to sixty, you don't jump out of the car at sixty just because it's not going to seventy. They didn't get it.
-
Does anyone here directly know anyone who has been infected and/or died?
-
Yes.
-
Does anyone here directly know anyone who has been infected and/or died?
The former.
-
his asinine anti-Chinese narrative
While I agree that he ignored all the warnings provided by his own administration and his rhetoric is usually unseemly, how is the narrative against the fucking commie assholes running China wrong? Fuck those assholes. Those guys are scum, lied about the virus, steal our IP, use slave labor (and our corporate overlords here enable them). Hopefully Xi chokes on his own vomit and manufacturers leave that third world shithole in droves and the SARS spreading idiots who.eat bats can just kill each other.
[/quote]
Yes, the leaders are scum. They lied. They lie about everything and we knew they were lying. They're still lying about the death count and the infection count. The IP thing is fixable on our end but there's too many people here making money off of it; ditto the labor, although that's also a problem in like 25 other countries. Fix China and suddenly the ranks of the shady middle class swell in Myanmar or Lesotho or Moldova.
The problem is that Trump bought into this myopic strain of thought dating back 20 years now that China is our one singular socioeconomic enemy (this is a small part of why Russia thinks him a useful fool) and he's been exploiting the more racist parts of that belief his entire Presidency, which means when coronavirus came along he bundled it with the China problem instead of a global problem that ceased being a Chinese problem some time in mid-January.
-
Trump is just a figurehead. What’s the solution?
-
Does anyone here directly know anyone who has been infected and/or died?
I think I know one person who was infected.
I definitely know someone who had to die alone in the hospital because his family wasn’t allowed in due to Coronavirus.
-
Trump is just a figurehead. What’s the solution?
We're pretty close to a place where we could convince Trump voters that they got their way.
If we could take over Faux News and start broadcasting a more favorable kind of disinformation (abortion has been outlawed, the negroes are forbidden from voting or receiving government aid, etc.) it would help move things along.
Thing is, they really like being outraged. So we'd need to invent/repeatedly rail against a new specter. The caravans meme won't last forever.
-
I don’t consume such information which is why I don’t have any idea about what Murph is talking about. I do believe that politicians and presidents are products/puppets for big money, special interest groups, the military-industrial complex, etc.
That's not a secret. The whole Alex Jones/QAnon Deep State theory basically implies that there is a *secret* cabal that is controlling things behind the curtain. So somehow there is a room of people being paid by George Soros to countervene the President. If that were true, they aren't very competent.
Papadopoulos called them imbeciles.
-
Trump is just a figurehead. What’s the solution?
We're pretty close to a place where we could convince Trump voters that they got their way.
If we could take over Faux News and start broadcasting a more favorable kind of disinformation (abortion has been outlawed, the negroes are forbidden from voting or receiving government aid, etc.) it would help move things along.
Thing is, they really like being outraged. So we'd need to invent/repeatedly rail against a new specter. The caravans meme won't last forever.
Just need a brown person to blow up an American landmark. Or go for the double whammy and have them blow up some confederate landmarks
-
Does anyone here directly know anyone who has been infected and/or died?
Not directly, but the virus has now landed via a positive test in my wife's aunt's nursing home. The patient fell, had to go to hospital for 2 weeks to deal with the orthopedic issues of the fall, and returned. Then tested positive.
The best man in my wedding, they pulled his mom from an assisted living center in Park Ridge on March 1. Six residents of that facility have died from COVID
-
[The IP thing is fixable on our end but there's too many people here making money off of it; d
If this is true - is it really a problem, and not a feature? Most of the IP being stolen is 2 or 3 generations old. low margin, but the availability of it to the Chinese consumer opens up a new market for higher end products.
A lot of the traditional things we thought of being "pirated" like software don't even exist in traditional form anymore, with everything going to SaaS, you don't buy software, you pay licensing fees.
-
My neighbor a few houses down got it was hospitalized and recovered. He’s in his late 50s to mid 60s I’d guess.
-
Ed Zachary
If this is true - is it really a problem, and not a feature? Most of the IP being stolen is 2 or 3 generations old. low margin, but the availability of it to the Chinese consumer opens up a new market for higher end products.
A lot of the traditional things we thought of being "pirated" like software don't even exist in traditional form anymore, with everything going to SaaS, you don't buy software, you pay licensing fees.
-
Illinois Republicans are really trying to snow their consitituents
https://www.morrisherald-news.com/2020/05/18/gop-graduated-tax-cash-grab-will-stifle-pandemic-recovery/atfowud/
-
Illinois Republicans are really trying to snow their consitituents
https://www.morrisherald-news.com/2020/05/18/gop-graduated-tax-cash-grab-will-stifle-pandemic-recovery/atfowud/
Considering that Trump and the National GOP are currently fucking us here in IL on the SALT deduction, I'm not going to say that they are wrong here.
-
Illinois Republicans are really trying to snow their consitituents
https://www.morrisherald-news.com/2020/05/18/gop-graduated-tax-cash-grab-will-stifle-pandemic-recovery/atfowud/
Considering that Trump and the National GOP are currently fucking us here in IL on the SALT deduction, I'm not going to say that they are wrong here.
Changing the constitution to allow a non-flat tax doesn't even imply that you implement a non-flat tax, or specify the brackets or rates. All it does is *allow* you to have a progressive tax structure.
But if you look at the brackets proposed, 97% of Illinois residents would pay the same or less.
Simpler rebuttal - if the US went to a flat tax, in order to keep the same amount of revenue, 97% of Americans would pay *more* income tax. Doubt that would be very popular.
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/26/doj-investigations-loeffler-feinstein-stock-trades-282413
The Justice Department is dropping its investigations into controversial stock trades made by Sens. Kelly Loeffler, Dianne Feinstein and Jim Inhofe in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, their offices confirmed Tuesday.
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/26/doj-investigations-loeffler-feinstein-stock-trades-282413
The Justice Department is dropping its investigations into controversial stock trades made by Sens. Kelly Loeffler, Dianne Feinstein and Jim Inhofe in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, their offices confirmed Tuesday.
So they couldn't make a case against Feinstein, Loeffler purchased a Get Out of Jail Free card, and Inhofe is the kind of worthless, ignorant dick that Trump can appreciate. Sorry, Burr!
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/26/doj-investigations-loeffler-feinstein-stock-trades-282413
The Justice Department is dropping its investigations into controversial stock trades made by Sens. Kelly Loeffler, Dianne Feinstein and Jim Inhofe in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, their offices confirmed Tuesday.
So they couldn't make a case against Feinstein, Loeffler purchased a Get Out of Jail Free card, and Inhofe is the kind of worthless, ignorant dick that Trump can appreciate. Sorry, Burr!
Aside from the purchase, they want Loeffler in the race in Georgia. If she's in the special election, she might pull some suburban white women that Collins will not, and keep any Democrat from a majority. The optimal situation for the GOP is that the runoff is two Republicans, and that only happens with Kelly and Collins on the ballot.
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/26/doj-investigations-loeffler-feinstein-stock-trades-282413
The Justice Department is dropping its investigations into controversial stock trades made by Sens. Kelly Loeffler, Dianne Feinstein and Jim Inhofe in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, their offices confirmed Tuesday.
lol of course
rules for thee but not for me
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/26/doj-investigations-loeffler-feinstein-stock-trades-282413
The Justice Department is dropping its investigations into controversial stock trades made by Sens. Kelly Loeffler, Dianne Feinstein and Jim Inhofe in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, their offices confirmed Tuesday.
lol of course
rules for thee but not for me
Looks like you added another bad karma to your total by posting. I thought I noticed the same for me yesterday.
It's probably just a coincidence. lol
-
Speaking of the stock market it looks like Illinois Alum Senator Kelly Loeffler is in some deep shit.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/26/doj-investigations-loeffler-feinstein-stock-trades-282413
The Justice Department is dropping its investigations into controversial stock trades made by Sens. Kelly Loeffler, Dianne Feinstein and Jim Inhofe in the early stages of the coronavirus pandemic, their offices confirmed Tuesday.
lol of course
rules for thee but not for me
Looks like you added another bad karma to your total by posting. I thought I noticed the same for me yesterday.
It's probably just a coincidence. lol
wow the loser brigade is really hurting my feelings by smiting me
-
Tesla is the most overvalued company in history.
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/512160-big-tech-sweepstakes-trump-blm/