IlliniHQ 2
General Category => The Deuce => Topic started by: Custard on April 13, 2025, 06:10:33 PM
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For those of you openly cheerleading China while we address our trade imbalance and other issues with them, do you think what they’ve been doing recently has been fair to us? Stealing IP, undercutting us everywhere, refusing our goods, all while bring a brutally oppressive and genocidal regime? These are the guys you’re backing?
As I’ve said for years, Russia isn’t who we should be worried about, it’s the Chinese, but Chinese sympathizers, typically on the left here, have done a great job of running obfuscation to keep people focused on Russia while China lies, cheats, and steals. Meanwhile the stupid Ukraine proxy war we’ve spent some too-high number of billions on has only served to strengthen ties between Russia, NK, and China.
Also, why should we remain dependent on SE Asia/China for goods that are crucial to our own economy and national defense? Covid and the Biden years exposed how over-reliant we have become, and there has to be a balance between access to cheap goods made in Asia and domestic production. We have essentially ceded production of lots of vital goods to nations we aren’t even friends with.
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First of all, both China and Russia need to be confronted simultaneously on a host of economic and security issues.
As to China, what's the best way to do that? How about we start a stupid global trade war that alienates our friends and allies. Great plan!
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-korea-china-japan-agree-promote-regional-trade-trump-tariffs-loom-2025-03-30/
https://www.reuters.com/world/trade-crisis-china-courts-eu-hedge-against-trump-2025-04-11/
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/27/carney-says-tariffs-force-new-era-for-canada-u-s-ties-00254857
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For those of you openly cheerleading China while we address our trade imbalance and other issues with them, do you think what they’ve been doing recently has been fair to us? Stealing IP, undercutting us everywhere, refusing our goods,
That is why the world's largest company is called "Chinvidia", which stole IP from a US firm called "Nvidia". Among other things they also made some phone calls to Donald Trump to put a ban on China buying chips from "Nvidia" so they could refuse them.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/04/13/these-unusual-market-moves-trust-dollar-may-be-breaking/
May want to retitle the thread to USA v. World Investors.
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Paywalled, so all I get to see is "Something strange is happening in the US ...."
Something strange is happening in the UK.
https://x.com/i/status/1911385165319840087
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Oh no. More chaos in the markets.
https://x.com/i/status/1911097429253841028
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Oh no. More chaos in the markets.
https://x.com/i/status/1911097429253841028
Pretty clear who it’s working on 😬
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Speaking of China, my opinion is they can win by getting rid of what remains of communism and returning to their diverse cultural heritage.
Along those lines, I noticed the Shen Wun commercials. It looked intriguing. Sadly, this is associated with the phony Buddhist sect Falun Gong.
Falun Gong allegedly teaches strange nonsense like different heavens for different races; so mixed race people can't go to heaven and will die in some sort of limbo..
The same sect also publishes the fake news right wing newspaper the Epoch Times.
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What better way to get rid of communism than to crush them economically then helping them rebuild as a more capitalist democracy. You older fellas here might remember previous instances of us doing that.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/04/13/these-unusual-market-moves-trust-dollar-may-be-breaking/
May want to retitle the thread to USA v. World Investors.
I don't know if people fully understand the consquences of the U.S $ losing world reserve currency status. It would mean higher (probably much higher) interest rates and the loss of the U.S government to borrow virtually freely. It would result in most Americans being poorer due to the decline in the value of the U.S $ (relative to every other currency) and the higher interest rates. The U.S. would never ever come back from this kind of thing all the way.
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What better way to get rid of communism than to crush them economically then helping them rebuild as a more capitalist democracy. You older fellas here might remember previous instances of us doing that.
Yeah, that worked out real well with Russia. Still an authoritarian state; unfortunately, something that Trump admires. No thanks.
And there is zero reason to assume that Trump will prevail. He should have stuck to a trade war with just China. It's still stupid but at least he would have a somewhat united country and have workable partners. Not give your foe and would-be allies common interests.
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2-3 years ago there were stories about the possibilities of the US losing it's reserve currency status due to Biden's policies.
Actually we don't know whose policies they were.
Neither one seemed to cause much hand-wringing.
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Yeah, that worked out real well with Russia. Still an authoritarian state; unfortunately, something that Trump admires. No thanks.
And there is zero reason to assume that Trump will prevail. He should have stuck to a trade war with just China. It's still stupid but at least he would have a somewhat united country and have workable partners. Not give your foe and would-be allies common interests.
A trade war with China? We lose. Americans are far less willing to take the pain of such a war than the Chinese people, and Xi knows it. They rely on what? Soybeans? Our entire economy relies on the Chinese supply chain.
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What better way to get rid of communism than to crush them economically then helping them rebuild as a more capitalist democracy. You older fellas here might remember previous instances of us doing that.
If we're trying to crush the commies, why cede the entire African continent to them? Some of USAID handouts didn't pass the front page test but, if one's angling for the inside track on natural resources, you have to grease a few palms over there. Trump's an expert in this type of transactional diplomacy.
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"Long before the Biden administration came to be, and President Joe Biden pushed green energy credits in his Build Back Better spending plan this year, Hunter Biden helped grease the wheels for a Chinese business to buy up key rare-earth minerals used in batteries for electric vehicles.
The New York Times reported Saturday that Hunter Biden was part owner in an investment firm that was involved in a Chinese conglomerate’s $3.8 billion purchase of one of the world’s largest cobalt deposits in the Democratic Republic of Congo."
https://miningconnection.com/surface/news/article/ny_times_uncovers_hunter_biden_ties_to_chinese_company_buying_congo_cobalt/
Fortunately, Joe said he didn't know anything about Hunter's business ventures and there was little, if any, hand-wringing.
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I missed the part where investors around the globe were fleeing US markets. I would have thought it would have been publicized here and elsewhere at the time. Hmmm.
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There’s no way a bunch of panicked rich nations could influence news to generate domestic public pressure on Trump to acquiesce, is there? Or can only Russia influence domestic US stuff?
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There’s no way a bunch of panicked rich nations could influence news to generate domestic public pressure on Trump to acquiesce, is there? Or can only Russia influence domestic US stuff?
they don't really seem panicked. The word is "calculating"
https://deanblundell.substack.com/p/carneys-checkmate-how-canadas-quiet?triedRedirect=true
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There’s no way a bunch of panicked rich nations could influence news to generate domestic public pressure on Trump to acquiesce, is there? Or can only Russia influence domestic US stuff?
and by "influence news" you mean "sell bonds and influence the price of bonds in a negative manner for the US"
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Think two people have now posted the blog of some Canadian guy claiming a W on Trump. Whose side are you guys even on? Wait, don’t tell us. We already know.
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Think two people have now posted the blog of some Canadian guy claiming a W on Trump. Whose side are you guys even on? Wait, don’t tell us. We already know.
I am on humanity's side. Earth first.
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I am on humanity's side. Earth first.
Why is it ok to have tariffs against us but when we implement them it’s isolationist drivel? Genuinely curious if you think it’s good we have a trillion dollar a year trade deficit while also accumulating unsustainable debt? I totally get that you don’t like the approach, not sure I do either, but am also willing to admit I don’t have access to all the info the people making the decisions do.
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The Commies don't appear to get the jokes either.
https://nypost.com/2025/04/14/world-news/china-suspends-rare-earth-exports-kneecapping-us-industry-reliant-on-beijings-monopoly/
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/despite-musks-claims-the-trump-administrations-spending-is-on-pace-to-surpass-bidens-levels-19cdf24c
So much for DOGE.
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The Commies don't appear to get the jokes either.
https://nypost.com/2025/04/14/world-news/china-suspends-rare-earth-exports-kneecapping-us-industry-reliant-on-beijings-monopoly/
Who would have thought making a large chunk of the world your enemy would have negative consequences like this.
Interestingly, Sleepy Joe recognized the need to bolster our rare earth element supply chain, but obviously this won't happen overnight.
https://me.smenet.org/biden-administration-announces-plans-to-secure-rare-earth-element-supply-chain/
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Why is it ok to have tariffs against us but when we implement them it’s isolationist drivel?
We have addressed this. It is not hard to use your favorite search engine. Other nations are not earning income from tariffs. They are used to prevent dumping.
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Genuinely curious if you think it’s good we have a trillion dollar a year trade deficit while also accumulating unsustainable debt? I totally get that you don’t like the approach, not sure I do either, but am also willing to admit I don’t have access to all the info the people making the decisions do.
The approach used by the last President to balance the budget and create a surplus might be good idea.
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The approach used by the last President to balance the budget and create a surplus might be good idea.
Have a tech bubble fall into his lap?
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Have a tech bubble fall into his lap?
Presumably since you are such a genius you are short the market. You're probably over there on Wall Street Bets high rollin with 200 dollars in put options!
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Thanks for toeing the line Murph!
Within the next four years, NVIDIA plans to produce up to half a trillion dollars of AI infrastructure in the United States through partnerships with TSMC, Foxconn, Wistron, Amkor and SPIL. These world-leading companies are deepening their partnership with NVIDIA, growing their businesses while expanding their global footprint and hardening supply chain resilience.
NVIDIA AI supercomputers are the engines of a new type of data center created for the sole purpose of processing artificial intelligence — AI factories that are the infrastructure powering a new AI industry. Tens of “gigawatt AI factories” are expected to be built in the coming years. Manufacturing NVIDIA AI chips and supercomputers for American AI factories is expected to create hundreds of thousands of jobs and drive trillions of dollars in economic security over the coming decades.
“The engines of the world’s AI infrastructure are being built in the United States for the first time,” said Jensen Huang, founder and CEO of NVIDIA. “Adding American manufacturing helps us better meet the incredible and growing demand for AI chips and supercomputers, strengthens our supply chain and boosts our resiliency.”
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-manufacture-american-made-ai-supercomputers-us/
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Who would have thought making a large chunk of the world your enemy would have negative consequences like this.
Interestingly, Sleepy Joe recognized the need to bolster our rare earth element supply chain, but obviously this won't happen overnight.
https://me.smenet.org/biden-administration-announces-plans-to-secure-rare-earth-element-supply-chain/
Get back to me in a few months and let me know who exactly we made enemies with.
Our own regulations, among other factors, forced us to offshore rare earth mining, leading to us being reliant on a communist adversary. We don’t have the domestic resources some other places do (we have some) yet we aren’t doing anything here. Nothing.
Sleepy Joe’s initiative from years ago invested hundreds of millions to bolster battery production and has accomplished basically nothing even though it was supposed to be making a dent in import reliance by 2026. The DOD wanted rare earth separation online by 2027.
In the meantime we spent a couple hundred billion isolating Russia who has since cozied up to China and North Korea and India. Russia has a lot of rare earth deposits too, but you didn’t have any problem not buying from them. We’d like some rare earth rights as part of our investment in Ukraine.
We’ve seen how the might of American resources and manufacturing can shift gears quickly into an unstoppable force. Not sure we can afford to drag our feet for 6, 8, 10+ years just to onshore a relatively small percentage of what we need. “Hey, we tried” isn’t good enough. Deregulate rare earth mining in the US, incentivize companies to start separation, form new partnerships, and get us off the Chinese tit.
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We’ve seen how the might of American resources and manufacturing can shift gears quickly into an unstoppable force. Not sure we can afford to drag our feet for 6, 8, 10+ years just to onshore a relatively small percentage of what we need. “Hey, we tried” isn’t good enough. Deregulate rare earth mining in the US, incentivize companies to start separation, form new partnerships, and get us off the Chinese tit.
We have seen that? Aren't we still waiting for Foxcom (sp?) in Wisconsin from the first Trump admin?
Who in their right mind is going to invest in a plant with the daily back-and-forth on the tariffs we are seeing?
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Who in their right mind is going to invest in a plant with the daily back-and-forth on the tariffs we are seeing?
China has been more than happy to.
We've known about this issue for years.
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China has been more than happy to.
We've known about this issue for years.
Let me know when it starts happening here. It isn't going to be under these conditions.
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We have seen that? Aren't we still waiting for Foxcom (sp?) in Wisconsin from the first Trump admin?
Who in their right mind is going to invest in a plant with the daily back-and-forth on the tariffs we are seeing?
Yeah I mean look what happened in the world wars. We weren’t reliant on rare earth metals and chips from Asia. We refocused our manufacturing basically overnight. Now apparently it takes 7-10 years to do anything.
Foxconn scaled back due to changing market conditions and then covid, but their democratic governor says he’s glad they’re there, Microsoft invested into the facility, and it seems like it would be a good place to start with some reshored manufacturing. Foxconn footed most of the bill, injecting nearly a billion US dollars worth of Taiwanese money into it. Subsidies and abatements were scaled back relative to Foxconn’s plans.
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Scaled back plans..... Like when there are tariffs one day, not the next, then back on the third day.
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Foxconn scaled back due to changing market conditions and then covid, but their democratic governor says he’s glad they’re there, Microsoft invested into the facility, and it seems like it would be a good place to start with some reshored manufacturing. Foxconn footed most of the bill, injecting nearly a billion US dollars worth of Taiwanese money into it. Subsidies and abatements were scaled back relative to Foxconn’s plans.
Foxconn was just fucking with Trump and Walker the whole time. They didn't put any money into it. They were just throwing around a few golden shovels to get Trump off their back.
The area around there is WORSE off for the whole boondoggle. Useless shells of buildings and random power lines that would need to be pulled and redone if you wanted to make anything of it. It was just a show.
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Sleepy Joe’s initiative from years ago invested hundreds of millions to bolster battery production and has accomplished basically nothing even though it was supposed to be making a dent in import reliance by 2026. The DOD wanted rare earth separation online by 2027.
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20022025/inside-clean-energy-ev-battery-manufacturing-capacity/
https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/06/tracking-the-ev-battery-factory-construction-boom-across-north-america/
Now I recognize that most MAGAs want immediate gratification on stuff and think Trump’s sledgehammer approach to global trade is the answer. Soon you folks will run into the reality that reshoring manufacturing is a slow grind, with successes and failures. It also requires coordinated planning, know-how and a long-term perspective.
Sleepy Joe put the wheels in motion with the IRA, Job’s Act and CHIPS. Trump would be wise to build on that effort. More can be done. His first step for the rare earth supply chain issue should be to boost domestic refining and processing capacity in a sustainable manner (See US rare earths startup Phoenix Tailings as an example: https://news.mit.edu/2024/startup-phoenix-tailings-turns-mining-waste-into-critical-metals-1108). We should also be working constructively with Japan, Australia and South Korea to help create responsible alternatives to Chinese minerals processing. Instead, we’ve provided an opening for China to cozy up to these countries.
Unfortunately, the biggest problem right now is that very few businesses and former allies want to work with us to shift production to the US because we have an arrogant, egoistical idiot in charge surrounded by a conga line of sycophants and toadies. Too much uncertainty and incompetence. Industrial policy requires stability, predictability, and a clear strategic vision—not interventions that shift on the whims of a president. Trump and his minions need to dial down the crazy.
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Unfortunately, the biggest problem right now is that very few businesses and former allies want to work with us to shift production to the US because we have an arrogant, egoistical idiot in charge surrounded by a conga line of sycophants and toadies. Too much uncertainty and incompetence. Industrial policy requires stability, predictability, and a clear strategic vision—not interventions that shift on the whims of a president. Trump and his minions need to dial down the crazy.
trump's trying to Nationalize Harvard, doubt he'd have any problem seizing the new TSMC plant. I'd be very skeptical if I were TSMC or Foxconn
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Foxconn was just fucking with Trump and Walker the whole time. They didn't put any money into it. They were just throwing around a few golden shovels to get Trump off their back.
The area around there is WORSE off for the whole boondoggle. Useless shells of buildings and random power lines that would need to be pulled and redone if you wanted to make anything of it. It was just a show.
Tell me you haven’t checked in on the project in 3-4 years without telling me.
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"conga line of sycophants and toadies"
Good line
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Tell me you haven’t checked in on the project in 3-4 years without telling me.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2023/11/10/what-happened-to-foxconn-in-wisconsin-a-timeline/71535498007/
State officials hailed Foxconn's arrival, but despite a massive investment of public money and the construction of several buildings, including an eye-catching dome, Foxconn largely failed to deliver on its original promises.
weird. Did the JS misspell "investment of Foxconn's money" as "investment of public money"?
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2023/11/10/what-happened-to-foxconn-in-wisconsin-a-timeline/71535498007/
State officials hailed Foxconn's arrival, but despite a massive investment of public money and the construction of several buildings, including an eye-catching dome, Foxconn largely failed to deliver on its original promises.
weird. Did the JS misspell "investment of Foxconn's money" as "investment of public money"?
There’s that spin that gets the TDS crowd throbbing hard.
Microsoft has agreed to invest 3.3 billion into an AI center there, first phase expected to be completed this year, Foxconn themselves have invested close to 2 billion, there are 12-1500 jobs, 2000 more coming through MS. Yeah it hasn’t gone to plan but it’s not like it’s a completely abandoned waste zone.
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There’s that spin that gets the TDS crowd throbbing hard.
Microsoft has agreed to invest 3.3 billion into an AI center there, first phase expected to be completed this year,
AI you say.
Shit.. *I* have more to do with making that happening than Trump does.
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Microsoft has agreed to invest 3.3 billion into an AI center there, first phase expected to be completed this year.
Thanks Joe, Tony, Racine County and Foxconn.
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Thanks Joe, Tony, Racine County and Foxconn.
Indeed.
None of the "investment" created these jobs/etc... from thin air. Microsoft is putting this facility in Wisconsin because they got the buildings Wisconsin fronted in a fire sale. Had this location not been around for them to pick off on the cheap, Microsoft still builds out the group, somewhere in the US. If somehow they had pulled off some sort of coup for Foxconn to put jobs in the US that were actually worth having, and recouped the public investment, there might have been something to this, but in the end it was just a giveaway to Foxconn and eventually MSFT.