IlliniHQ 2
General Category => The Deuce => Topic started by: Custard on November 19, 2020, 09:17:33 PM
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Surprised there hasn’t been much discussion on this.
Some things on my mind:
—Who should get the vaccine?
—How long will protection last? We already know reinfections are possible which correlates with coronaviruses we’ve studied for decades.
—It was rushed into production and uses a new mode of action. Is it a good idea to inject a large percentage of our population with a rushed vaccine when the overwhelming majority of people who contract the virus will have minimal issues?
—Isn’t it more than a little frightening to think our entire health care industry will all get the rushed vaccine first? The FDA doesn’t exactly have a sparkling record on the long term safety of the drugs they actually put through a full evaluation, so what could possibly go wrong in pumping a rushed vaccination into the bloodstreams of our most critical workers?
—We don’t even know whether or not those that have had Covid or have been vaccinated for it can contract and harbor enough virus to still be transmissible.
—Just seems unprecedented and potentially reckless if administered wide scale. Seems like it should go to those most at risk right away and then scale into health care and other essential workers and continue monitoring responses.
From everything I’ve been reading for months, as long as we protect Grandma we’re good to go right? That’s been the primary shaming mechanism for anyone upset at young minimal risk people attempting to be human beings.
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Front line personnel. Old people. People who work in service industries who are front facing. Everyone else.
First issue solved.
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Measles and other vaccines seem to have worked very well. Stop listening to Jenny McCarthy and just look at her boobs.
Next....
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Nonetheless, I think I'll wait to see how it goes for IlliniGolf and JudgeJudy before I get it. If they get it and their posts start making sense, I'll pass and just wear a mask the rest of my life.
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Front line personnel. Old people. People who work in service industries who are front facing. Everyone else.
First issue solved.
Seems reasonable. But phrased another way, should we pump two doses of a hurried, new mode-of-action vaccine into our entire healthcare workforce for a 94% chance at ~three months of protection?
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Seems reasonable. But phrased another way, should we pump two doses of a hurried, new mode-of-action vaccine into our entire healthcare workforce for a 94% chance at ~three months of protection?
Yes. See Jenny McCarthy post....
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It’s moments like these when I wish I wasn’t a hopeless cynic.
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Nichi and alum74 should get theirs right away. I think they’d be much more at ease. I don’t think Mn is going to get one.
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From everything I’ve been reading for months, as long as we protect Grandma we’re good to go right? That’s been the primary shaming mechanism for anyone upset at young minimal risk people attempting to be human beings.
You need to read more.
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You need to read more.
Two applauds
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Seems reasonable. But phrased another way, should we pump two doses of a hurried, new mode-of-action vaccine into our entire healthcare workforce for a 94% chance at ~three months of protection?
Well, “three months of protection” is something you just pulled out of your ass, because you have no idea. By February, we will know if the vaccine wears off after a few months. And it’s not like there are more than a very, very small number of documented reinfections. Antibodies aren’t the only thing in your body that fights disease.
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My doc says get any, and get all. And that there will be booster shot(s) as part of the program.
Thoughts, thru a friend, from an infectious disease doc ......
Messenger RNA vaccines are considered safe because there is no live inactivated virus, just synthetic RNA. Messenger RNA technology has not been deployed in humans, but in the words of the infectious disease doc, it is considered to be safe.
Due to the need for the vaccines, getting to the distribution stages should take precedence over completing studies in all of the various risk groups of the population that maybe haven't been studied as of yet.
He finishes with saying that he will listen to what the infectious disease community recommends. If the vaccines are given the green light, he's all in.
My guess is the vaccines go first to health care workers, then the old folks and risk groups potentially suffering the greatest consequences.
I believe I read that effectiveness of the vaccine should occur within 4 weeks of getting the injection.
I get a flu shot every year. I hemmed and hawed about the 2 shingles vaccines. The consequences of getting shingles are a little different than the potential consequences of coronavirus tho. I'll get the coronavirus vaccination, and boosters, if/when the medical community recommends. Hopefully, that is soon.
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Well, “three months of protection” is something you just pulled out of your ass, because you have no idea.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/9a1178f76f60efcea61a0beb3e4a0a6e/tenor.gif?itemid=15607290)
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My doc says get any, and get all. And that there will be booster shot(s) as part of the program.
Thoughts, thru a friend, from an infectious disease doc ......
Messenger RNA vaccines are considered safe because there is no live inactivated virus, just synthetic RNA. Messenger RNA technology has not been deployed in humans, but in the words of the infectious disease doc, it is considered to be safe.
Due to the need for the vaccines, getting to the distribution stages should take precedence over completing studies in all of the various risk groups of the population that maybe haven't been studied as of yet.
He finishes with saying that he will listen to what the infectious disease community recommends. If the vaccines are given the green light, he's all in.
My guess is the vaccines go first to health care workers, then the old folks and risk groups potentially suffering the greatest consequences.
I believe I read that effectiveness of the vaccine should occur within 4 weeks of getting the injection.
I get a flu shot every year. I hemmed and hawed about the 2 shingles vaccines. The consequences of getting shingles are a little different than the potential consequences of coronavirus tho. I'll get the coronavirus vaccination, and boosters, if/when the medical community recommends. Hopefully, that is soon.
Shingles sucks very badly - but it's not contagious.
The acid test for you would be - did you vaccinate your kids for chicken pox?
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The Shingrix shots had the worst side effects for me of any vaccine. I'm glad to be done with it.
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I'll let the at risk people get it first, then down the line if proven effective and safe, sure I'll take it, but I seriously don't think I need a vaccine for a virus which has killed (or been found with) just over one out of 10k people in my age group in the last year (source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm), or about 5% of deaths this year for my age group... and that I've probably already very likely been exposed to, and my immune system very likely fought off no problem. I'll keep taking my vitamin D and attempting to live life.
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I'll let the at risk people get it first, then down the line if proven effective and safe, sure I'll take it, but I seriously don't think I need a vaccine for a virus which has killed (or been found with) just over one out of 10k people in my age group in the last year (source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm), or about 5% of deaths this year for my age group... and that I've probably already very likely been exposed to, and my immune system very likely fought off no problem. I'll keep taking my vitamin D and attempting to live life.
You can skip the vaccine, you just have to shelter in place if you do
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You can skip the vaccine, you just have to shelter in place if you do
No I don't
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Also, I kind of object to the characterization of people acting in an obscenely selfish manner is just them “attempting to be human beings.” Not everyone is at high risk of dying from this virus, but everyone can spread it to those who are. By going out and living your life normally, you are essentially saying “Fuck those people.” Americans have no sense of community or social responsibility any more. It’s sad. We suck.
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Meh, no surprise there.
I think it's Old 97's motto, actually.
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Also, I kind of object to the characterization of people acting in an obscenely selfish manner is just them “attempting to be human beings.” Not everyone is at high risk of dying from this virus, but everyone can spread it to those who are. By going out and living your life normally, you are essentially saying “Fuck those people.” Americans have no sense of community or social responsibility any more. It’s sad. We suck.
What if those people follow all guidelines when interacting with at-risk individuals? Or just avoid them entirely? I barely even saw my own family let alone other older people for pretty long stretches when I was in college. If you were on campus now as a 21 year old, you’d just stay locked down all the time despite it being low risk to you and your cohort? I have a hard time believing that.
I’m not at all surprised murph expects a vaccine mandate and rob wants to throw people in jail but I’m a little surprised that you, THE MiniDitka, think college kids being college kids is basically saying “fuck at-risk people.” There’s a lot more to it than that imo.
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This is known as The Bargaining Stage.
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Prior 18 to 21 year olds were storming the beaches at Normandy or slogging it out with Charlie in rice paddies, yet we can't expect the current crop of college kids to wear damned masks. Sad!
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Also, I kind of object to the characterization of people acting in an obscenely selfish manner is just them “attempting to be human beings.” Not everyone is at high risk of dying from this virus, but everyone can spread it to those who are. By going out and living your life normally, you are essentially saying “Fuck those people.” Americans have no sense of community or social responsibility any more. It’s sad. We suck.
Personally, I'll say that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm adamantly anti lockdown and "New Normal" and care about society and the world around me. What I see is COVID doomerism and government restrictions destroying society, and millions of unintended lives. And the more authoritarian you get the worse it is. So many people are moving out of NYC right now that people have to book moving trucks months in advance. That can't be explained by fear of the virus itself, as it's been many months since NYC was a big hot spot, it's clearly about the lock downs. I've seen videos of 5th avenue completely boarded up for blocks on end, I'm sure thats great for retail. I've heard similar stories from many other cities like San Francisco that have taken the same path.
Does anyone really think society is better off in California or Victoria, Australia right now than it is in Sweden or South Dakota? The lockdowns are destroying both individual rights and the greater good of society by making people mentally ill and unstable. I consider both of these important, and they aren't opposing ideals. A society with a healthy amount of individual rights is more resilient than a more centralized, controlled society. An authoritarian society has all its eggs in one basket, so to speak, the consequences of a failed decision can be more ruinous than a society in which individuals and groups of people can pursue different options and come to find what works best in a more organic way.
Really, I think most of you COVID doomers are either scared or just engaging in tribal behavior, and convincing yourself its for the greater good. The level of fear in our society has been getting more extreme for many years. Social and mainstream media companies now have the ability to blast you in the face during your every waking moment with fear. I think I just see it differently in part because I'm just not that scared of death or this virus, its not a major concern that I even think about. Just like who is president of the US, honestly I could care less, it doesn't effect my daily routine at all really. Anyway, hopefully I have a number of decades of healthy life still ahead of me, being in my 40s, but I know if I manage to live to be old I'll eventually get to a more vulnerable state, but frankly, the thought of dying of COVID or something similar one day is less scary to me than the thought of living in a society that's ever more fearful, authoritarian, polarized and just flat out bat shit crazy. I hope by the time I get old that society has abandoned the idea that the old have to be protected "for their own good" and used as cash cows for the medical industry and instead accepted that death is a natural conclusion to life. I guess thats selfish though...
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Do you know how to make pipe bombs?
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No I don't
OK then - here's a better deal. Much like children who aren't vaccinated for Measles can't go to school, if you don't get vaccinated you can't use hospitals.
That way you aren't being forced to do anything, snowflake.
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What if those people follow all guidelines when interacting with at-risk individuals? Or just avoid them entirely? .
Good idea.
Old People get yellow stars. Diabetic get pink triangles. Immunocompromised get green circles. That was the people who don't want vaccines can identify the at-risk individuals so they can start following guidelines
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So many people are moving out of NYC right now that people have to book moving trucks months in advance. That can't be explained by fear of the virus itself, as it's been many months since NYC was a big hot spot, it's clearly about the lock downs. I've seen videos of 5th avenue completely boarded up for blocks on end, I'm sure thats great for retail. I've heard similar stories from many other cities like San Francisco that have taken the same path.
Geez goober, it couldn't possibly be that people are now able to keep their six figure jobs but ditch their 4k/month rent and go live somewhere cheap for a while.
At our company meeting (record earnings, stock at 530 by the way, Einstein) - the CEO addressed these issues because sure, NorCal is pretty awesome but the rent's pretty high.
How do you not trip over your own tongue on the way to the bathroom
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Really, I think most of you COVID doomers are either scared or just engaging in tribal behavior, and convincing yourself its for the greater good. The level of fear in our society has been getting more extreme for many years.
This just sums up Trumpism. Everyone in Mountain View walks around with a mask. It's not because we are afraid of anything. Sure, we don't want to die, and we know if we catch COVID it would be bad.
But smart people don't make decisions based on fear. They make decisions based on taking information and choosing that path that gives the best result. Period. If we follow the decision tree to wear masks, socially distance, limit our trips - then COVID will recede and we can get back to business.
I used to think it was a special kind of stupid that couldn't comprehend that. Nope - it's not that special it appears.
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What if those people follow all guidelines when interacting with at-risk individuals? Or just avoid them entirely? I barely even saw my own family let alone other older people for pretty long stretches when I was in college. If you were on campus now as a 21 year old, you’d just stay locked down all the time despite it being low risk to you and your cohort? I have a hard time believing that.
I’m not at all surprised murph expects a vaccine mandate and rob wants to throw people in jail but I’m a little surprised that you, THE MiniDitka, think college kids being college kids is basically saying “fuck at-risk people.” There’s a lot more to it than that imo.
Yes, it’s absolutely saying “Fuck at-risk people.” “Fuck health care workers” too, while we’re at it. It’s not just about spreading it to people you care about, it’s about spreading it to people you don’t know. You may give it to some old lady at the grocery store who then dies. Maybe her husband dies too. Or maybe you give it to another student who is careless around his/her parents.
The only way to keep at risk people safe is by containing spread of the disease so there are fewer carriers. That means sacrificing some fun to save other people’s lives. Nobody is isolated in this, you change your behavior to control overall community spread, not just spread to the people you know.
And I don’t know what I’d do if I were 21 at UIUC. I was a selfish idiot back then, as are most college students. I’m a little more willing to excuse college students for being selfish idiots than 20, 30, 40, and 50-somethings I see doing it, but they’re still selfish idiots.
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Personally, I'll say that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm adamantly anti lockdown and "New Normal" and care about society and the world around me. What I see is COVID doomerism and government restrictions destroying society, and millions of unintended lives. And the more authoritarian you get the worse it is. So many people are moving out of NYC right now that people have to book moving trucks months in advance. That can't be explained by fear of the virus itself, as it's been many months since NYC was a big hot spot, it's clearly about the lock downs. I've seen videos of 5th avenue completely boarded up for blocks on end, I'm sure thats great for retail. I've heard similar stories from many other cities like San Francisco that have taken the same path.
Does anyone really think society is better off in California or Victoria, Australia right now than it is in Sweden or South Dakota? The lockdowns are destroying both individual rights and the greater good of society by making people mentally ill and unstable. I consider both of these important, and they aren't opposing ideals. A society with a healthy amount of individual rights is more resilient than a more centralized, controlled society. An authoritarian society has all its eggs in one basket, so to speak, the consequences of a failed decision can be more ruinous than a society in which individuals and groups of people can pursue different options and come to find what works best in a more organic way.
Really, I think most of you COVID doomers are either scared or just engaging in tribal behavior, and convincing yourself its for the greater good. The level of fear in our society has been getting more extreme for many years. Social and mainstream media companies now have the ability to blast you in the face during your every waking moment with fear. I think I just see it differently in part because I'm just not that scared of death or this virus, its not a major concern that I even think about. Just like who is president of the US, honestly I could care less, it doesn't effect my daily routine at all really. Anyway, hopefully I have a number of decades of healthy life still ahead of me, being in my 40s, but I know if I manage to live to be old I'll eventually get to a more vulnerable state, but frankly, the thought of dying of COVID or something similar one day is less scary to me than the thought of living in a society that's ever more fearful, authoritarian, polarized and just flat out bat shit crazy. I hope by the time I get old that society has abandoned the idea that the old have to be protected "for their own good" and used as cash cows for the medical industry and instead accepted that death is a natural conclusion to life. I guess thats selfish though...
It is for the greater good, and it’s TEMPORARY. Jobs are temporary, you can find a new one. Businesses are temporary, they will come back. Death is not temporary.
Death may be a natural conclusion to life, but I’d bet you wouldn’t be happy gasping for breath in a hospital bed, with no way to say goodbye to your family, then to have a tube jammed down your throat to breathe for you until you finally pass from a disease that you maybe wouldn’t have even gotten if some selfish assholes would have accepted a few inconveniences in their lives foe the sake of other people, tough guy.
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Smites for all well reasoned responses
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I consider myself smote.
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Smitten.
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I suspect the best way to understand someone is to observe what they say about others. That can be a good tool for self reflection. A wise old Japanese lady once told me, "If you see somebody else look foolish; that is you. You mirror."
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https://youtu.be/2Wz7KvLFgYQ
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I'd vote for Dave Chappelle.
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https://www.theonion.com/cdc-advisers-vote-on-who-will-get-covid-19-vaccine-firs-1845794168?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-12-03
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https://www.theonion.com/cdc-advisers-vote-on-who-will-get-covid-19-vaccine-firs-1845794168?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-12-03
https://i.imgur.com/Lpf56cR.png
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I want to make sure it’s safe first, we don’t need another Tuskegee Experiment on our hands
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I want to make sure it’s safe first, we don’t need another Tuskegee Experiment on our hands
Apples and oranges.
https://www.history.com/news/the-infamous-40-year-tuskegee-study
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Surprised there hasn’t been much discussion on this.
Some things on my mind:
—Who should get the vaccine?
—How long will protection last? We already know reinfections are possible which correlates with coronaviruses we’ve studied for decades.
—It was rushed into production and uses a new mode of action. Is it a good idea to inject a large percentage of our population with a rushed vaccine when the overwhelming majority of people who contract the virus will have minimal issues?
—Isn’t it more than a little frightening to think our entire health care industry will all get the rushed vaccine first? The FDA doesn’t exactly have a sparkling record on the long term safety of the drugs they actually put through a full evaluation, so what could possibly go wrong in pumping a rushed vaccination into the bloodstreams of our most critical workers?
—We don’t even know whether or not those that have had Covid or have been vaccinated for it can contract and harbor enough virus to still be transmissible.
—Just seems unprecedented and potentially reckless if administered wide scale. Seems like it should go to those most at risk right away and then scale into health care and other essential workers and continue monitoring responses.
From everything I’ve been reading for months, as long as we protect Grandma we’re good to go right? That’s been the primary shaming mechanism for anyone upset at young minimal risk people attempting to be human beings.
SMH
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Apples and oranges.
https://www.history.com/news/the-infamous-40-year-tuskegee-study
It was a tasteless joke.
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SMH
Other than my troll comment at the bottom which part do you have trouble with?