IlliniHQ 2

General Category => The Deuce => Topic started by: Custard on June 27, 2024, 12:42:12 PM

Title: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 27, 2024, 12:42:12 PM
Looks like CNN has constructed a safe space for Biden for some weird Weekend at Bernie’s style “debate” tonight. Election interference?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ILLove1997 on June 27, 2024, 01:25:35 PM
I'm sure the undecided moderates here are gonna be tuning in!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 01:38:15 PM
I'm sure the undecided moderates here are gonna be tuning in!

They should find out who watches and revoke their voting privileges, as watching this is a clear sign of insanity.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on June 27, 2024, 01:50:20 PM
Looks like CNN has constructed a safe space for Biden for some weird Weekend at Bernie’s style “debate” tonight. Election interference?

Looks like Custard has already received his BDS talking points before the debate has even occurred.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on June 27, 2024, 03:11:30 PM
Looks like CNN has constructed a safe space for Biden for some weird Weekend at Bernie’s style “debate” tonight. Election interference?

LOL. Trump signed off on the rules so he could bitch about them.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 27, 2024, 03:32:02 PM
It’s the only way they’d get any semblance of a debate? They aren’t gonna let Joe do anything resembling a debate.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on June 27, 2024, 03:39:31 PM
It’s the only way they’d get any semblance of a debate? They aren’t gonna let Joe do anything resembling a debate.

Oh bullshit. If Trump did not want to do it this way he did not have to agree to the rules. Or he could have negotiated what he thought were more favorable terms. He is an alleged great negotiator, just ask him. This way he just gets to bitch how unfair it all is and his minions will eat it up.

If you really need this debate to judge who to vote for, I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 27, 2024, 04:09:53 PM
No audience and auto muting takes away Trump's strengths.

*Inciting a supportive crowd

*Interrupting and talking over his opponent
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 04:40:14 PM
Oh bullshit. If Trump did not want to do it this way he did not have to agree to the rules. Or he could have negotiated what he thought were more favorable terms. He is an alleged great negotiator, just ask him. This way he just gets to bitch how unfair it all is and his minions will eat it up.

If you really need this debate to judge who to vote for, I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ridingthegrange on June 27, 2024, 05:26:15 PM
I'll be wearing hearing protection or outside and catch the Cliff Notes later.  She can get quite loud. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: IlliniGolf on June 27, 2024, 06:00:21 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/2M9LMbS/IMG-2646.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jp1bphq)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: IlliniGolf on June 27, 2024, 06:16:30 PM
Oh bullshit. If Trump did not want to do it this way he did not have to agree to the rules. Or he could have negotiated what he thought were more favorable terms. He is an alleged great negotiator, just ask him. This way he just gets to bitch how unfair it all is and his minions will eat it up.

If you really need this debate to judge who to vote for, I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

(https://gifdb.com/images/high/dr-evil-air-quotes-sure-95rh1iooa9rfn4mc.gif)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 08:50:39 PM
I didn't last as long watching that as Golf lasted with that hooker.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 08:53:28 PM
My God, this is a slaughter! How in the fuck would Biden’s team ever allow this to happen?! 😂 holy shit!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 08:53:55 PM
Biden literally said he killed Medicare! 😳
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 27, 2024, 08:57:02 PM
Time to usher in Newsom.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 08:57:37 PM
My God, this is a slaughter! How in the fuck would Biden’s team ever allow this to happen?! 😂 holy shit!

I think the strategy has to be - let Trump put out some whoppers and then put the commercials together.

"Losers and suckers - that's a lie". Then put John Kelly into a commercial with that clip. etc...
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 09:01:42 PM
Time to usher in Newsom.

... was 12 months ago...
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 09:06:21 PM
I think the strategy has to be - let Trump put out some whoppers and then put the commercials together.

"Losers and suckers - that's a lie". Then put John Kelly into a commercial with that clip. etc...

Whatever it is they’re doing, it’s ludicrous. Biden is the one putting out some whopper comments. Trump is tearing his ass apart.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 09:07:48 PM
This is hard to watch for Biden…

Wwwwwwooooooooooowwwwwwwww
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 09:13:02 PM
Trump is fucking him up! This is insane!!!! 💀 💀 💀
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 09:28:19 PM
I don’t give a fuck if you like Trump or not, but this fucker is damn good at debating. I’ve missed hearing this guy daily! 😂
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 09:33:17 PM
💀

https://x.com/realcandaceo/status/1806510077941047658?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 09:35:59 PM
Whatever it is they’re doing, it’s ludicrous. Biden is the one putting out some whopper comments. Trump is tearing his ass apart.

By making shit up - which will work really well for 90 minutes, but Biden has a billion dollars to flood the airwaves with commercials that make Trump's comments look very very dumb.

And that might be a winning strategy, given that this debate is so bad that nobody with a brain is watching. Oh wait, are you watching? Case and point.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 27, 2024, 09:41:31 PM
I saw something that said 6 in 10 Americans planned on watching it. Which I think is the same thing as 3 out of 5, or 60%. Not everyone is as smart as you murph!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 09:46:47 PM
I saw something that said 6 in 10 Americans planned on watching it. Which I think is the same thing as 3 out of 5, or 60%. Not everyone is as smart as you murph!

Well….. he IS the expert of expertise! 😎
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 27, 2024, 09:50:35 PM
I don’t give a fuck if you like Trump or not, but this fucker is damn good at debating. I’ve missed hearing this guy daily! 😂

If you're ok with an incessant liar, I guess so.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 27, 2024, 09:52:44 PM
Time to usher in Newsom.

I'm not a Newsom fan, but he's the best option at this point. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 27, 2024, 09:58:21 PM
Of course, a faction of Dems will want Harris.   

What a shitshow on the left.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on June 27, 2024, 10:06:09 PM
So, not having watched it, it sounds like Joe has The COVID and Trump wouldn't know the truth even if it sat on his face like Stormy Daniels.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 27, 2024, 10:08:19 PM
So, not having watched it, it sounds like Joe has The COVID and Trump wouldn't know the truth even if it sat on his face like Stormy Daniels.

I see some Dems getting giddy about replacing Joe...   I'll still take COVID Joe over Kamala.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on June 27, 2024, 10:14:08 PM
California's budget deficit would sink Newsom.   I've always liked Whitmer, but it would be a bloodbath if she jumped ahead of Harris.  You would be alienating a major constituency.

Right now, I don't think any replacement would beat Trump.

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 27, 2024, 10:20:55 PM
California's budget deficit would sink Newsom.   I've always liked Whitmer, but it would be a bloodbath if she jumped ahead of Harris.  You would be alienating a major constituency.

Right now, I don't think any replacement would beat Trump.

It's not like Trump was good with the deficit, but yeah anyone jumping ahead of Harris will alienate a major faction of the left...  Dems could be fucked.  Joe better show a positive COVID test asap.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 10:34:35 PM
Anderson Cooper is tearing Kamala alive right now!!! 💀 the Democratic Party is eating each other alive!!!

Edit- Kamala pleading Biden did ok so she has her only shot at President if he dies!! 😂
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 10:41:18 PM
🎯  and this is going turn into a civil war for power in the Democratic Party! Very good for Trump and he wasn’t even good in this debate necessarily.

https://x.com/greggutfeld/status/1806498387430461936?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 10:46:05 PM
💀 😂 oh boy!

https://x.com/endwokeness/status/1806529313333747791?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 10:50:07 PM
🎯 dude is not gonna be here 4 more years. You vote him, you’re voting Kamala.

https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1806522140830716032?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 27, 2024, 10:50:42 PM
I was told here that Biden was more coherent than Trump? The only possible reason the Democrat party could have trotted him out there for this debacle was to force him out. Incumbent or not, this situation is unprecedented not only in his age, but in the manner in which he’s so clearly unfit for another 4.5 years (from now) of serving at this capacity. Even as a mouthpiece of the party he is utterly useless.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 27, 2024, 10:53:50 PM
🎯 dude is not gonna be here 4 more years. You vote him, you’re voting Kamala.

https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1806522140830716032?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

Kamala replacing COVID Joe is painful indeed.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 27, 2024, 10:55:16 PM
I was told here that Biden was more coherent than Trump? The only possible reason the Democrat party could have trotted him out there for this debacle was to force him out. Incumbent or not, this situation is unprecedented not only in his age, but in the manner in which he’s so clearly unfit for another 4.5 years (from now) of serving at this capacity. Even as a mouthpiece of the party he is utterly useless.

Not buying the conspiracy theory, since Kamala's the alternative.  She's a much bigger asshole than Hillary. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 10:58:09 PM
Marco Rubio making a strong case for VP…
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 10:59:47 PM
🎯

https://x.com/atensnut/status/1806519140116549764?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 27, 2024, 11:13:49 PM
This one is the best…

https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1806528021433557303?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 27, 2024, 11:20:00 PM
Not buying the conspiracy theory, since Kamala's the alternative.  She's a much bigger asshole than Hillary.

Nobody wants Kamala, so no she won’t be the alternative. You can’t tell me with a straight face that the people that run the Democrat party didn’t have a plan in place for when this went horribly awry, which it was obviously going to.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 27, 2024, 11:42:39 PM
I’m just now watching this with any actual attention. Holy shit what a complete disaster. The only saving grace is that I was at a UM sports bar in Ann Arbor and the debate was on the TV, and there was a gay dude who inadvertently outed himself as a Trump supporter. That really caught everyone off guard.

(https://i.ibb.co/PDZMkdZ/IMG-6096.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rdG39VG)

(https://i.ibb.co/VpMXKV6/IMG-6094.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qFmbZB6)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 11:54:17 PM
I saw something that said 6 in 10 Americans planned on watching it. Which I think is the same thing as 3 out of 5, or 60%. Not everyone is as smart as you murph!

90% of statistics are made up. The other half are bullshit
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 11:55:03 PM
So, not having watched it, it sounds like Joe has The COVID and Trump wouldn't know the truth even if it sat on his face like Stormy Daniels.

First off - he did not have sex with a porn star
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 27, 2024, 11:58:55 PM
California's budget deficit would sink Newsom.   I've always liked Whitmer, but it would be a bloodbath if she jumped ahead of Harris.  You would be alienating a major constituency.

Right now, I don't think any replacement would beat Trump.

We don't have a budget deficit. It comes and goes, but 2024 tax revenues are going to be ZOMG off the charts given that we used to have three of the top ten companies by Market Cap (Apple, Facebook, Google) and now it's four with the big green monster. Adding in the huge Amazon and Microsoft presence. There are going to be monster tax revenues from the cap gains from those companies and the RSU compensation for those employees.

Happily Tesla, another company with primary operations in CA has dropped to 13th after their idiot CEO decided to move to Texas. I guess not everything is bigger in Texas.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 12:01:25 AM
🎯 dude is not gonna be here 4 more years. You vote him, you’re voting Kamala.

https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/1806522140830716032?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

3D chess. The Democrats spent no money on a contested primary while the GOP had a civil war. Joe steps aside pre-convention, the delegates quickly coalesce behind Newsom, he can't pick Kamala as VP so Whitmer gets the 2nd slot, and they win by a TD and a FG.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 12:02:28 AM
I was told here that Biden was more coherent than Trump? The only possible reason the Democrat party could have trotted him out there for this debacle was to force him out. Incumbent or not, this situation is unprecedented not only in his age, but in the manner in which he’s so clearly unfit for another 4.5 years (from now) of serving at this capacity. Even as a mouthpiece of the party he is utterly useless.

The Democrats didn't trot him out. He trotted himself out. Nobody had the stones to run against him. SAD.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 12:03:37 AM
Marco Rubio making a strong case for VP…

Both residents of Florida, illegal per this little document called "The Constitution" that you folks seem to love so much except when it's inconvenient.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 28, 2024, 12:12:31 AM
Good god this “debate” is something else. Reminds me of the 30-0 UConn run against the Illini.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 12:12:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjizuZJLqQc

Cilizza was stunned? Who would possibly have been stunned?
This was exactly to script
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 12:13:27 AM
Good god this “debate” is something else. Reminds me of the 30-0 UConn run against the Illini.

That analogy is spot on, along with me and both siblings going "that reminded me of Dad"

Dad has Parkinsons
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 12:44:07 AM
3D chess. The Democrats spent no money on a contested primary while the GOP had a civil war. Joe steps aside pre-convention, the delegates quickly coalesce behind Newsom, he can't pick Kamala as VP so Whitmer gets the 2nd slot, and they win by a TD and a FG.

Add to this - this debate was remarkably early - *before* the convention. Maybe for a reason!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on June 28, 2024, 08:32:07 AM
We don't have a budget deficit. It comes and goes, but 2024 tax revenues are going to be ZOMG off the charts given that we used to have three of the top ten companies by Market Cap (Apple, Facebook, Google) and now it's four with the big green monster. Adding in the huge Amazon and Microsoft presence. There are going to be monster tax revenues from the cap gains from those companies and the RSU compensation for those employees.

Happily Tesla, another company with primary operations in CA has dropped to 13th after their idiot CEO decided to move to Texas. I guess not everything is bigger in Texas.

The election is in November Murph. Those 2024 tax revenues won't matter.  Republicans would be relentless in pointing out the current budgetary problems in California.  And the message would be simple.  A $100+ billion surplus turned into a $45 billion deficit in just three years.  Do you want this guy handling your checkbook?  Rinse and repeat.   

I wouldn't be against a brokered convention, and I could see Newsom as a potential candidate.  But the Democrats can't afford to have black women sit out during this election cycle.  I just don't see a consensus candidate right now to replace Biden.   

As to Biden's performance last night.  He had a bad night on a day that could not have been worse.  However, if you're going to take a loss, better to take it in late June and not September or October.  The race is going to be close no matter what and it's still a very long time until people start voting.

Biden and those around him have some decisions to make in the next few days.  Stay tuned. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 28, 2024, 08:45:59 AM
The best chance for an Obama 4th term is Michelle or Dr. Jill.

They'll get their chances when Joe gets the nomination at the convention and declines to accept it.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 08:59:00 AM
Trump did not have a good performance. His body language was rude. He didn't answer the questions. He told blatant lie after lie.

Biden should've called in sick. He should never agreed to no notes. Probably wouldn't have helped though.

Harris came on CNN. Sounded good. The media sound bit her pretty bad.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 09:39:01 AM
The best chance for an Obama 4th term is Michelle or Dr. Jill.

They'll get their chances when Joe gets the nomination at the convention and declines to accept it.

I'd abstain and buckle my seatbelts.

We are reaching "we survived a first term of Trump, we'll survive a second" territory. Except that if Biden is on the ticket, he'll destroy the downballot races too.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 09:41:51 AM
The election is in November Murph. Those 2024 tax revenues won't matter.  Republicans would be relentless in pointing out the current budgetary problems in California.  And the message would be simple.  A $100+ billion surplus turned into a $45 billion deficit in just three years.  Do you want this guy handling your checkbook?  Rinse and repeat.   

Where's your citation on this anyway? If we had a $100 billion surplus, then go 45 into deficit, that leaves us 55 billion to the positive, n'est pas? I'm certainly not hearing of any needed austerity measures.

California's economy is a monster. Just three California companies are 15% of the entire S&P 500 index value.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 09:47:39 AM
The election is in November Murph. Those 2024 tax revenues won't matter.  Republicans would be relentless in pointing out the current budgetary problems in California.  And the message would be simple.  A $100+ billion surplus turned into a $45 billion deficit in just three years.  Do you want this guy handling your checkbook?  Rinse and repeat.   


https://www.pasadenanow.com/main/californias-budget-whiplash-from-a-record-setting-surplus-to-a-massive-shortfall-in-one-year-2

Dovetails with what I said. The GOP caused a bit of a problem in the 70's when they kneecapped property taxes. So we rely on income taxes. And since this is a growth oriented state, a huge chunk of the income taxes come from cap gains on big gains, especially with a progressive tax system. That and RSUs that lever big gains that are ordinary income, not cap gains.

And that's subject to big swings. The state constitution doesn't like the big surpluses, so the whipsaw gets tricky, the rainy day fund helps a lot. But in the end, if we were so screwed, we wouldn't have the world's 5th largest economy.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 28, 2024, 09:52:05 AM
Found a needlessly long but pretty solid substack update from Freddie DeBoer in my email this morning. It makes a lot of good points, but this one was interesting to me:

Quote
Indeed, Harris’ manner of speaking is so consistently confusing that you get this kind of defensiveness from admirers in the media. Typically, if people feel like they have to constantly apologize for you in that way, it means that you’re not an effective speaker, and voters simply won’t care whether you have a good excuse for that problem or not. She doesn’t poll well, she performed very badly even among Democrats in the primary, she’s gaffe-prone, she’s a bad candidate. It’s not clear that running her out there instead of Joe Biden would even help.

But she has a very loud, angry, and vengeful fanbase, and Harris herself is an explicit fan of the KHive. If party leaders tried to choose someone else to replace Biden should he decide to step aside, how would that go down within the party? Gavin Newsom is a name you see a lot, and while I find the man a slimy huckster, he’s exactly what you’d want to run out against Trump: a standard-issue Democrat who’s not Trump, an experienced and skilled politician, coherent and slick and capable of bringing up abortion and Trump’s felony conviction. He’d probably have a good base of support and cause your average Democrat to breathe a sigh of relief. But the optics of a white man replacing a Black woman who is the sitting Vice President of the United States… from an identity lens, that’s as bad as it gets, right? That’s exactly what liberals always complain about, right? That’s an insult to everything the party has said that it stands for in recent years, right? Can the party’s poohbahs like Obama and Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi make a switch from Biden to someone other than Harris, should Biden step aside? Would it destroy the party if they tried to?

Guess we should have had a primary, huh!

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 28, 2024, 09:56:21 AM
Both residents of Florida, illegal per this little document called "The Constitution" that you folks seem to love so much except when it's inconvenient.

Oh, I realize that. If Trump really wanted him (I don’t think he does) that issue could be fixed rather easily.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 09:56:27 AM
Trump says "I said peacefully and patriotically" to his crowds.

He also says he offered 10k national guard troops to Nancy Pelosi.

If his crowds were gonna be peaceful and patriotic - why would he need to order up 10,000 National Guard troops, for a bunch of peaceful protestors?

Maybe Tom Cruise should run

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLcfQKU_co
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on June 28, 2024, 09:59:06 AM
Where's your citation on this anyway? If we had a $100 billion surplus, then go 45 into deficit, that leaves us 55 billion to the positive, n'est pas? I'm certainly not hearing of any needed austerity measures.

California's economy is a monster. Just three California companies are 15% of the entire S&P 500 index value.

https://apnews.com/article/california-budget-deficit-18ff9c1ec885ec5bc69e790a836d9bdd

https://calmatters.org/commentary/2024/06/california-budget-deficit-deal-gimmicks/

https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/what-contributed-to-californias-record-68-billion-budget-deficit/

What you need to think about is how the average voter outside of California will react to the headlines and messaging.  The rest is just noise. 

Re: your followup post.  As Ronald Reagan said,  “If you're explaining, you're losing.”
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 10:05:46 AM

Re: your followup post.  As Ronald Reagan said,  “If you're explaining, you're losing.”

truth. I'm not trying to win anything, just explaining.

Newsom - if he's doing it right and he's done so on Hannity - just needs to point out that California has the world's 5th largest economy, is the cradle of the technology that's driving the country right now (Apple and Nvidia are over 10% of your 401k index funds), storming ag sector, future looking (CAHSR, the new dam we'll put on the Sacramento to store more water given climate change), etc...

Plenty of positives to point out, and just say "our revenue fluctuates and we're very skilled at handling it, otherwise we wouldn't be the powerhouse that we are"
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on June 28, 2024, 10:10:04 AM
Found a needlessly long but pretty solid substack update from Freddie DeBoer in my email this morning. It makes a lot of good points, but this one was interesting to me:

Was agnostic about her until she flip-flopped on crime. Fuck that asshole.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on June 28, 2024, 10:13:29 AM
truth. I'm not trying to win anything, just explaining.

Newsom - if he's doing it right and he's done so on Hannity - just needs to point out that California has the world's 5th largest economy, is the cradle of the technology that's driving the country right now (Apple and Nvidia are over 10% of your 401k index funds), storming ag sector, future looking (CAHSR, the new dam we'll put on the Sacramento to store more water given climate change), etc...

Plenty of positives to point out, and just say "our revenue fluctuates and we're very skilled at handling it, otherwise we wouldn't be the powerhouse that we are"

It's not the possibility of a replacement that worries me.  It's the logistics of making it and then having some people walk away butthurt.

Biden and his allies would have to use all of their political capital to ensure it's a near universal first ballot affair for the chosen ticket.   If it becomes a floor fight - it's going to be hard to bring every faction together to ensure GOTV.   
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 10:20:14 AM
It's not the possibility of a replacement that worries me.  It's the logistics of making it and then having some people walk away butthurt.

Biden and his allies would have to use all of their political capital to ensure it's a near universal first ballot affair for the chosen ticket.   If it becomes a floor fight - it's going to be hard to bring every faction together to ensure GOTV.

should have been a primary. Sigh.

Custard says "feels like the MSM finally got the green light on this". I think they were in denial, hoping he'd squeak by.
Now they are pretty sure he'll get his ass handed to him. That's good for nobody.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 10:27:54 AM
I think I figured out why some people think Trump won, as opposed to Biden losing. It's the WWE effect. The whole self promoting, loud mouth, obnoxious braggart act is right out of professional wrestling.

 In the minds of Trump and his minions, a debate is a verbal brawl, an exchange of insults, candidates shouting and shaking fingers at one another. What Trump tries to do is smackdown his opponents.

During the 2016 Republican primaries, his crude, mannerless behavior completely flummoxed his Republican opponents. He even left Jeb squirming and stammering. I don't think they were prepared for such uncouth conduct.

Biden soundly defeated him twice just by remaining cheerful, sticking to policy, and talking directly to the audience.

It would be interesting to see what someone with a good command of facts could do, skillfully calling out his lies. How would Trump react?

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on June 28, 2024, 10:28:31 AM
should have been a primary. Sigh.

Custard says "feels like the MSM finally got the green light on this". I think they were in denial, hoping he'd squeak by.
Now they are pretty sure he'll get his ass handed to him. That's good for nobody.

I'm not that interested in what the MSM says.  They're in a feeding frenzy mode.  Let's wait 2-3 weeks to see what the polling says. 

I still remember lots of Democratic bedwetting after the first Obama-Romney presidential debate.   
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 10:39:33 AM
I'm not that interested in what the MSM says.  They're in a feeding frenzy mode.  Let's wait 2-3 weeks to see what the polling says. 

I still remember lots of Democratic bedwetting after the first Obama-Romney presidential debate.

I wasn't bedwetting but I was pretty pissed, because Obama's performance in that debate was so against character, completely unexpected from one of the best orators the country has ever seen, a man with excellent command of facts who rigorously prepares. I felt that night they sort of decided to mail it in, not cause a stink, Obama was so good on the trail and had such monster fundraising that all they had to do was play not to lose. Romney was prepared to exploit that. Obama came back to the second debate with a revised strategy and righted the ship.

This one - "I hope Biden doesn't look like my Dad with Parkinson's". Well, he did. My Dad has some better days and some worse days. His best days we can tell a few funny stories, but we still have to hide the password to the financial accounts.
Even best case Biden can't fix that mess.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 28, 2024, 11:12:40 AM
I think I figured out why some people think Trump won, as opposed to Biden losing. It's the WWE effect. The whole self promoting, loud mouth, obnoxious braggart act is right out of professional wrestling.

 In the minds of Trump and his minions, a debate is a verbal brawl, an exchange of insults, candidates shouting and shaking fingers at one another. What Trump tries to do is smackdown his opponents.

During the 2016 Republican primaries, his crude, mannerless behavior completely flummoxed his Republican opponents. He even left Jeb squirming and stammering. I don't think they were prepared for such uncouth conduct.

Biden soundly defeated him twice just by remaining cheerful, sticking to policy, and talking directly to the audience.

It would be interesting to see what someone with a good command of facts could do, skillfully calling out his lies. How would Trump react?

Weird because Biden was the first one to use personal insults and turn it into a name-calling match…

Not sure what you watched but Biden was BAD!!!!! And that’s not an indictment of Trump, just that Biden ain’t gonna be alive in 4 1/2 years from now. If he is, his mind is GONE.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 11:25:54 AM
Weird because Biden was the first one to use personal insults and turn it into a name-calling match…

Not sure what you watched but Biden was BAD!!!!! And that’s not an indictment of Trump, just that Biden ain’t gonna be alive in 4 1/2 years from now. If he is, his mind is GONE.

all the more reason to dismantle the ticket - Biden could probably beat Kamala Harris 1-1 so... if this becomes a proxy Trump/Harris race, it's way over.

Close races are about turnout. That's the problem here.

Trump supporters - will turn out
Biden haters - will turn out
Trump haters - will turn out
Biden supporters - diminishing group that won't turn out.
Checkmate.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 11:27:32 AM
Weird because Biden was the first one to use personal insults and turn it into a name-calling match…

Not sure what you watched but Biden was BAD!!!!! And that’s not an indictment of Trump, just that Biden ain’t gonna be alive in 4 1/2 years from now. If he is, his mind is GONE.

One of my buddies put it this way - "People who vote for Trump know what they are voting for. People who would be inclined to vote for Biden are voting for a black box, they have no idea what they are voting for". Not a good recipe.

Man's gotta know his limitations.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 28, 2024, 11:31:23 AM
weird Weekend at Bernie’s style “debate”

Always trust content from the Custard!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 11:49:00 AM
Was agnostic about her until she flip-flopped on crime. Fuck that asshole.

What about crime? 

Trump was rambling about Biden being too hard on crime and calling black people super predators, one of his many lies.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 12:17:12 PM
Weird because Biden was the first one to use personal insults and turn it into a name-calling match…

Not sure what you watched but Biden was BAD!!!!! And that’s not an indictment of Trump, just that Biden ain’t gonna be alive in 4 1/2 years from now. If he is, his mind is GONE.


The wisecrack about bleach?

Like I said, Biden lost, Trump didn't win.

30 falsehoods versus 9.

It's also Trump's snide, condescending attitude when he prevaricates..

Is this the first time you've seen Trump debate?

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 28, 2024, 12:17:41 PM
What was that about ads after the debate, Murph?!

😂 💀 sounds like Trump is fully taking advantage…

https://x.com/moment_mirthful/status/1806684516859224173?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ILLove1997 on June 28, 2024, 12:29:18 PM
What about crime? 

Trump was rambling about Biden being too hard on crime and calling black people super predators, one of his many lies.

Yeah Hilary said that, lol
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 12:31:28 PM
Biden was lobbed a soft ball about inflation.

That is easy enough to answer.
We had a pandemic. Pan means it was a global event. Due to the pandemic, there were severe supply chain disruptions. There was also a deep recession.

To avoid a depression and deflation, both administrations pumped money into the economy. As the economy recovered, demand for goods and services surpassed supply. The end result was inflation. The alternative was depression and deflation, an economic disaster.

Inflation has since been curbed, but prices are still too high. Some industries are being looked into for price gouging. A windfall profits tax might be in order. There is still work to be done.


You can read a transcript of what Biden said..
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 28, 2024, 01:31:33 PM
they were in denial

It has been a rough 24 hours for the illinirays of the world.

Been saying for a long long time that people needed to get their heads out of their asses re: Biden’s infirmity if they wanted a shot at beating Trump. It was met with derision and/or brushed off as BDS.

No, it’s not BDS, it’s common sense that people will 100% elect Trump in 2024 over a vegetable.

Every single one of you that lived in denial, ignored all the warning bells and dismissed everything as right wing cheap fakes deserve this moment. Just like you did in 2016 when you fucked around and found out.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on June 28, 2024, 01:34:36 PM
It has been a rough 24 hours for the illinirays of the world.

Been saying for a long long time that people needed to get their heads out of their asses re: Biden’s infirmity if they wanted a shot at beating Trump. It was met with derision and/or brushed off as BDS.

No, it’s not BDS, it’s common sense that people will 100% elect Trump in 2024 over a vegetable.

Every single one of you that lived in denial, ignored all the warning bells and dismissed everything as right wing cheap fakes deserve this moment. Just like you did in 2016 when you fucked around and found out.

Just wait for the SCOTUS immunity decision giving the president complete immunity and then Biden shoots Trump!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 01:52:52 PM
Trump running an ad effectively blaming Biden and all illegal immigrants for three violent crimes committed by individuals who are here illegally.

Is this any different from blaming all black people for the relatively high crime  rate of young men who happen to be black? Oh yeah, the right wing sort of does that.

How about blaming all Trump supporters for the sex crimes of a few?

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2mfKvXh/Screenshot-20240623-014634-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/xcN4z4SS)upload image no registration (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 28, 2024, 02:02:00 PM
Trump running an ad effectively blaming Biden and all illegal immigrants for three violent crimes committed by individuals who are here illegally.

Is this any different from blaming all black people for the relatively high crime  rate of young men who happen to be black? Oh yeah, the right wing sort of does that.

How about blaming all Trump supporters for the sex crimes of a few?

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2mfKvXh/Screenshot-20240623-014634-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/xcN4z4SS)upload image no registration (https://postimages.org/)
You should have stopped right here, "committed by individuals who are here illegally."
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on June 28, 2024, 02:14:07 PM
Trump running an ad effectively blaming Biden and all illegal immigrants for three violent crimes committed by individuals who are here illegally.

Is this any different from blaming all black people for the relatively high crime  rate of young men who happen to be black? Oh yeah, the right wing sort of does that.

How about blaming all Trump supporters for the sex crimes of a few?

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2mfKvXh/Screenshot-20240623-014634-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/xcN4z4SS)upload image no registration (https://postimages.org/)

I think we can blame each of them.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 02:21:12 PM
You should have stopped right here, "committed by individuals who are here illegally."

They are actually awaiting a hearing because we don't have enough courts or whatever.

Trump's idea is to make them wait in Mexico. So they can rape and kill Mexicans? /S

The point is people from all demographics commit violent crimes. A child is far more likely to be raped and murdered by someone they know than an illegal immigrant.

"About 30% of those who sexually abuse children are relatives of the child, such as fathers, uncles, or cousins. Strangers are perpetrators in about 10% of child sexual abuse cases. Men are found to be perpetrators in most cases, regardless of whether the victim is a boy or a girl,"

"In 2017, 28.0 percent of homicide victims were killed by someone they knew other than family members (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.), 12.3 percent were slain by family members, and 9.7 percent were killed by strangers. The relationship between murder victims and offenders was unknown in 50.0 percent of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter incidents.''
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 28, 2024, 02:30:48 PM
Trump running an ad effectively blaming Biden and all illegal immigrants for three violent crimes committed by individuals who are here illegally.

Is this any different from blaming all black people for the relatively high crime  rate of young men who happen to be black? Oh yeah, the right wing sort of does that.

How about blaming all Trump supporters for the sex crimes of a few?

(https://i.postimg.cc/m2mfKvXh/Screenshot-20240623-014634-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/xcN4z4SS)upload image no registration (https://postimages.org/)
I looked up 1, that being Ciccarella.

"Assistant U.S. Attorney Gregory Schiller says the photos didn’t constitute child pornography, "
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 28, 2024, 02:32:22 PM
They are actually awaiting a hearing because we don't have enough courts or whatever.

Trump's idea is to make them wait in Mexico. So they can rape and kill Mexicans? /S

The point is people from all demographics commit violent crimes. A child is far more likely to be raped and murdered by someone they know than an illegal immigrant.

"About 30% of those who sexually abuse children are relatives of the child, such as fathers, uncles, or cousins. Strangers are perpetrators in about 10% of child sexual abuse cases. Men are found to be perpetrators in most cases, regardless of whether the victim is a boy or a girl,"

"In 2017, 28.0 percent of homicide victims were killed by someone they knew other than family members (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.), 12.3 percent were slain by family members, and 9.7 percent were killed by strangers. The relationship between murder victims and offenders was unknown in 50.0 percent of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter incidents.''
They shouldn't have been here.
U.S. citizens can be here.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on June 28, 2024, 02:50:03 PM
Biden may as well just pardon Hunter and all the "illegals" and go out guns a blazin'.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 03:00:56 PM
They shouldn't have been here.
U.S. citizens can be here.

They are entitled to a hearing. Our immigration courts are overwhelmed. We need a legal fix, not the crap Trump pulled.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/08/26/fact-check-and-review-of-trump-immigration-policy/
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 28, 2024, 03:06:11 PM
Trump denied the losers and suckers comment, but we know what he said about John McCain

"He's not a war hero, he's a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured, okay? I hate to tell you."
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 28, 2024, 03:09:34 PM
They are entitled to a hearing. Our immigration courts are overwhelmed. We need a legal fix, not the crap Trump pulled.
If Biden hadn't pulled his crap, they wouldn't have been here.
The immigration courts are overwhelmed so lets compound the problem. Lmfao

And they'll get their hearings in criminal court. The victims get funerals.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Reacher on June 28, 2024, 03:50:06 PM
It would be the ultimate dereliction of duty if the Democrats don’t force Biden to step away. That was embarrassing on every level.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Reacher on June 28, 2024, 03:52:29 PM
Heard an analyst last night say Democratic leadership was “shocked” at how bad Biden performed. Why? Have they not being paying attention the last several years? This was the least shocking thing I’ve seen all year.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 04:00:55 PM
What was that about ads after the debate, Murph?!

😂 💀 sounds like Trump is fully taking advantage…

https://x.com/moment_mirthful/status/1806684516859224173?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

Pretty stupid ad. The more they pile on now, the more likely Biden drops out. Lay low until after the convention!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 04:04:01 PM
It has been a rough 24 hours for the illinirays of the world.

Been saying for a long long time that people needed to get their heads out of their asses re: Biden’s infirmity if they wanted a shot at beating Trump. It was met with derision and/or brushed off as BDS.

No, it’s not BDS, it’s common sense that people will 100% elect Trump in 2024 over a vegetable.

Every single one of you that lived in denial, ignored all the warning bells and dismissed everything as right wing cheap fakes deserve this moment. Just like you did in 2016 when you fucked around and found out.

I don't think anyone here thinks Biden was the best candidate. Or even a marginally good one. "I hope he can squeak by" isn't denial, it's depression. "He will squeak by" is denial.

Trump wins unless Biden drops out. Frankly he should resign, let Harris be President for a few months "FIRST FEMALE AFRICAN AMERICAN PRESIDENT!" but she doesn't run.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 28, 2024, 04:06:03 PM
If Biden hadn't pulled his crap, they wouldn't have been here.
The immigration courts are overwhelmed so lets compound the problem. Lmfao

And they'll get their hearings in criminal court. The victims get funerals.

Dude, their have been illegal immigrants from Mexico to the US ever since there has been a Mexico and a US.
There is nothing new under the sun here.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 28, 2024, 04:17:38 PM
Heard an analyst last night say Democratic leadership was “shocked” at how bad Biden performed. Why? Have they not being paying attention the last several years? This was the least shocking thing I’ve seen all year.

They had to let him do it to get this formal reaction. This will give them a reason to select another candidate I’m assuming. They’re acting shocked, but I really don’t think they are behind closed doors. Kamala looks like a fool (not that she isn’t already) defending him like she didn’t know this. Or it makes her look incompetent (not that she’s not already) to not know as hid VP.

No way in hell the Democrats would let Kamala run. If they do that they’re committing suicide. Might as well let Joe run and die so she can take over if that’s the case…
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 28, 2024, 06:41:30 PM
https://www.theonion.com/fact-checking-the-trump-biden-debate-on-cnn-1851565720
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 28, 2024, 07:12:22 PM
😂
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ILLove1997 on June 28, 2024, 07:19:04 PM
https://www.theonion.com/fact-checking-the-trump-biden-debate-on-cnn-1851565720

Lol pretty savage for 2024
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 28, 2024, 08:24:15 PM
The week prep at Camp David for Biden… 😂

https://x.com/immeme0/status/1806441391658246643?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 28, 2024, 09:22:00 PM
Nobody wants Kamala, so no she won’t be the alternative. You can’t tell me with a straight face that the people that run the Democrat party didn’t have a plan in place for when this went horribly awry, which it was obviously going to.

So what's the grand plan then?  Who will be the nominee?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 28, 2024, 09:23:55 PM
Good god this “debate” is something else. Reminds me of the 30-0 UConn run against the Illini.

LOL that's Trump's UCONN. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 28, 2024, 09:26:49 PM
The best chance for an Obama 4th term is Michelle or Dr. Jill.

They'll get their chances when Joe gets the nomination at the convention and declines to accept it.

Michelle Obama's the only person who will keep a certain portion of the party from going nuts, if Harris isn't the nom.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 28, 2024, 09:50:03 PM
Michelle Obama's the only person who will keep a certain portion of the party from going nuts, if Harris isn't the nom.

But then we’re all gonna see that “she” is actually Big Mike. 🤨
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 28, 2024, 10:00:04 PM
But then we’re all gonna see that “she” is actually Big Mike. 🤨

No idea.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 28, 2024, 10:56:01 PM
So what's the grand plan then?  Who will be the nominee?

Check out my post about this in the dead celebrity thread I think
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 28, 2024, 11:16:19 PM
LOL that's Trump's UCONN.

I mean, yeah, that’s the sad part, right? According to Democrats Trump is the worst candidate ever, and yet he looks to be a shoo-in for beating the Democratic nominee in 2 out of 3 elections.

At some point you have to be responsible for coming up with someone demonstrably better in the eyes of the voters. You can’t rely on just belittling them into your way of thinking.

It seems every cycle people on here and every social media I come across predict the end of the GOP and a runaway Democrat future that’s akin to single party rule. Yet the party is always like, “Hold my beer!” and then proceeds to step on its collective dick over and over again.

And I’ve said it a million times over the years on the different HQs—I am the exact person the Democrat party should be trying to bring into the fold. A middle class working guy that can comfortably vote either way depending on the candidate and the messaging.

Mollycoddling poor blacks, abortion fanatics, and the relatively insignificant LGBTQIA+ community with infirm or deeply unpopular candidates isn’t getting the job done in the suburbs and exurbs. Might be time for a little more nuanced strategy than “Trump is a mean tweeting fascist”
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 28, 2024, 11:57:35 PM
I mean, yeah, that’s the sad part, right? According to Democrats Trump is the worst candidate ever, and yet he looks to be a shoo-in for beating the Democratic nominee in 2 out of 3 elections.

At some point you have to be responsible for coming up with someone demonstrably better in the eyes of the voters. You can’t rely on just belittling them into your way of thinking.

It seems every cycle people on here and every social media I come across predict the end of the GOP and a runaway Democrat future that’s akin to single party rule. Yet the party is always like, “Hold my beer!” and then proceeds to step on its collective dick over and over again.

And I’ve said it a million times over the years on the different HQs—I am the exact person the Democrat party should be trying to bring into the fold. A middle class working guy that can comfortably vote either way depending on the candidate and the messaging.

Mollycoddling poor blacks, abortion fanatics, and the relatively insignificant LGBTQIA+ community with infirm or deeply unpopular candidates isn’t getting the job done in the suburbs and exurbs. Might be time for a little more nuanced strategy than “Trump is a mean tweeting fascist”

It's 2 bad teams.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 29, 2024, 12:05:06 AM
Check out my post about this in the dead celebrity thread I think

Can't find it. Who will be the Dem nom? Also what Dem could get your vote? 

I can't imagine there's a Dem out there who can get the vote of a guy who considers Trump UCONN..
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 29, 2024, 06:35:06 AM
But then we’re all gonna see that “she” is actually Big Mike. 🤨

Good grief. She attended Whitney Young . Her brother is Craig Robinson.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 29, 2024, 06:50:00 AM
Heard an analyst last night say Democratic leadership was “shocked” at how bad Biden performed. Why? Have they not being paying attention the last several years? This was the least shocking thing I’ve seen all year.

He defeated Trump twice in 2000, correction 2020 debates.

He delivered a State of the Union address on Mar 7, 2024. It was vastly superior to the pathetic Republican response.

We all know he stutters. He has always gone off on tangents at press conferences and is loose with facts. Trump is far worse with tangential prevarication.

I have never seen Biden like he was at the debate.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 29, 2024, 07:16:59 AM
Hopefully this was just a bad night, but this rapid a decline from early March to late June is not a good sign. We shall see.

Like I said. Biden stutters. He strays off topic. He is a little loose with facts. Harmless stuff really.

Whataboutism applies here. Trump goes off topic far worse than Biden. He and his allies care nothing for the truth, they knowingly tell big, harmful lies.

Like Trump saying his admin had the cleanest air ever even though he cut regulations. Actually, carbon emissions were down in 2020, but for the same reason gas prices were down, because of the pandemic.

They also spread lies opponents; the birther b.s., Killery sold our Uranium to the Russians, Michele / Michael, the Buttigieg bicycle lie. These are not good people.

Former VP Pence is a good, decent man and wouldn't go along with their crap. I am a little to his left, but I respect him.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Reacher on June 29, 2024, 11:18:36 AM
Only a little to his left?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Illinifan5775 on June 29, 2024, 12:15:12 PM
No idea.
Yeah, no idea.
I watched some of the debacle, took a nap for about 40 minutes. The nap was better than what was going on in that "debate". The Pres was a mess and of course Trash was Trash, lie after lie after lie.
The Pres better get it together quick. Hell, he showed more energy post debate.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: brian randles jumper on June 29, 2024, 12:32:40 PM
Yeah, no idea.
I watched some of the debacle, took a nap for about 40 minutes. The nap was better than what was going on in that "debate". The Pres was a mess and of course Trash was Trash, lie after lie after lie.
The Pres better get it together quick. Hell, he showed more energy post debate.
Why are you calling Biden Pres and Trash?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: brian randles jumper on June 29, 2024, 12:33:33 PM
He defeated Trump twice in 2000 debates.

He delivered a State of the Union address on Mar 7, 2024. It was vastly superior to the pathetic Republican response.

We all know he stutters. He has always gone off on tangents at press conferences and is loose with facts. Trump is far worse with tangential prevarication.

I have never seen Biden like he was at the debate.

And we think Biden is losing it!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 29, 2024, 01:21:14 PM
Hopefully this was just a bad night, but this rapid a decline from early March to late June is not a good sign. We shall see.

Like I said. Biden stutters. He strays off topic. He is a little loose with facts. Harmless stuff really.

Whataboutism applies here. Trump goes off topic far worse than Biden. He and his allies care nothing for the truth, they knowingly tell big, harmful lies.

Like Trump saying his admin had the cleanest air ever even though he cut regulations. Actually, carbon emissions were down in 2020, but for the same reason gas prices were down, because of the pandemic.

They also spread lies opponents; the birther b.s., Killery sold our Uranium to the Russians, Michele / Michael, the Buttigieg bicycle lie. These are not good people.

Former VP Pence is a good, decent man and wouldn't go along with their crap. I am a little to his left, but I respect him.

4 more years of Biden is a very hard sell, especially with someone as insufferable as Harris as the backup.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 29, 2024, 01:22:18 PM
Why are you calling Biden Pres and Trash?

Squeaky?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 29, 2024, 01:24:36 PM
Yeah, no idea.
I watched some of the debacle, took a nap for about 40 minutes. The nap was better than what was going on in that "debate". The Pres was a mess and of course Trash was Trash, lie after lie after lie.
The Pres better get it together quick. Hell, he showed more energy post debate.

I didn't watch...

Obama and Clinton need to step in and endorse someone not named Kamala Harris to be the nominee.

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on June 29, 2024, 01:29:05 PM
Squeaky?

Possibly.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 29, 2024, 02:09:26 PM
Only a little to his left?

I supported every Republican for President since 1964 except Nixon in 1972 and Trump. I voted for that nutty libertarian in 2016.

I could vote for an honest, moderate Republican that repudiates the freedom caucus and economic nationalism.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Illinifan5775 on June 29, 2024, 03:22:18 PM
Why are you calling Biden Pres and Trash?
Joe Biden is Pres Biden and Trump is Trash. Need I explain more? That piece of shit Trash should be in prison. You know it and I know it. As President Biden just said, Trash is a one man crime wave.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 29, 2024, 07:26:27 PM
Trump said this the other day:

"No water in your faucets. You ever try buying a new home and you turn on. You want to wash your hair or you wanna wash your hands. You turn on the water and it goes drip, drip the soap. You can't get it off your hand. So you keep it running for about 10 times longer. You trying, the worst is your hair. I have this beautiful luxuriant hair and I put stuff on. I put it in lather. I like lots of lather because I like it to come out extremely dry because it seems to be slightly thicker that way. And I lather up and then you turn on this crazy shower and the thing drip, drip and you say I'm gonna be here for 45 minutes. What? There's so much water. You don't know what to do with it. You know, it's called rain. It rains a lot in certain places. But, now their idea, you know, did you see the other day? They just, I opened it up and they closed it again. I opened it, they close it, washing machines to wash your dishes. There is a problem. They don't want you to have any water. They want no water"
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 29, 2024, 09:14:24 PM
Trump said this the other day:

"No water in your faucets. You ever try buying a new home and you turn on. You want to wash your hair or you wanna wash your hands. You turn on the water and it goes drip, drip the soap. You can't get it off your hand. So you keep it running for about 10 times longer. You trying, the worst is your hair. I have this beautiful luxuriant hair and I put stuff on. I put it in lather. I like lots of lather because I like it to come out extremely dry because it seems to be slightly thicker that way. And I lather up and then you turn on this crazy shower and the thing drip, drip and you say I'm gonna be here for 45 minutes. What? There's so much water. You don't know what to do with it. You know, it's called rain. It rains a lot in certain places. But, now their idea, you know, did you see the other day? They just, I opened it up and they closed it again. I opened it, they close it, washing machines to wash your dishes. There is a problem. They don't want you to have any water. They want no water"
Yep. He's not a fan of water rationing.

Now do Biden saying that the Border Patrol endorsed him.
That might be kind of a big deal with immigration being the topic that it is,.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 29, 2024, 10:19:25 PM
Yep. He's not a fan of water rationing.

Now do Biden saying that the Border Patrol endorsed him.
That might be kind of a big deal with immigration being the topic that it is,.

The border patrol union endorsed the bipartisan bill that Biden negotiated with Republicans. Trump told his Toadies to block it, because it would hurt him politically.

That is what Biden meant. He clearly was having trouble communicating. Nobody disputes that.

Trump was having a field day telling flat out lies.

Since Trump hates water rationing, maybe he could  magically reduce carbon emissions again, while reducing regulations.  All he needs is another pandemic. Note that CO2 emissions cause anthropogenic global warming; which leads to droughts ...
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 29, 2024, 11:40:39 PM
It is heartwarming to see Ray sincerely dig in on this.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 29, 2024, 11:46:23 PM
I’m glad Jon is back in time for this election cycle.

https://youtu.be/3SJr44m-w1Y
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: brian randles jumper on June 30, 2024, 05:50:53 AM
Trump said this the other day:

"No water in your faucets. You ever try buying a new home and you turn on. You want to wash your hair or you wanna wash your hands. You turn on the water and it goes drip, drip the soap. You can't get it off your hand. So you keep it running for about 10 times longer. You trying, the worst is your hair. I have this beautiful luxuriant hair and I put stuff on. I put it in lather. I like lots of lather because I like it to come out extremely dry because it seems to be slightly thicker that way. And I lather up and then you turn on this crazy shower and the thing drip, drip and you say I'm gonna be here for 45 minutes. What? There's so much water. You don't know what to do with it. You know, it's called rain. It rains a lot in certain places. But, now their idea, you know, did you see the other day? They just, I opened it up and they closed it again. I opened it, they close it, washing machines to wash your dishes. There is a problem. They don't want you to have any water. They want no water"

"Jackie you here? Where's Jackie? I think she must not be here"
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 30, 2024, 07:30:26 AM
The border patrol union endorsed the bipartisan bill that Biden negotiated with Republicans. Trump told his Toadies to block it, because it would hurt him politically.

That is what Biden meant. He clearly was having trouble communicating. Nobody disputes that.

Trump was having a field day telling flat out lies.

Since Trump hates water rationing, maybe he could  magically reduce carbon emissions again, while reducing regulations.  All he needs is another pandemic. Note that CO2 emissions cause anthropogenic global warming; which leads to droughts ...
Oh, it's what he "meant" ? Lol
So it's not a lie. Lol
It is what the viewers heard tho.

Now do Biden's spin on Charlottesville.
The look on Biden's face when Trump told him there is no Santa Claus was priceless.

Oh, I'm sorry. It was the Charlottesville spin. It wasn't about Santa Claus. But the look of disbelief on Biden's face was the look of a 6 year old being told 'Joey, there is no Santa Claus'.

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 09:55:14 AM
Oh, it's what he "meant" ? Lol
So it's not a lie. Lol


You think it's funny? I think it's sad. Yes. That is what is what he was referring to.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 10:26:51 AM
You think it's funny? I think it's sad. Yes. That is what is what he was referring to.

But the left says Trump lies about the exact # of illegals coming into our country. Does it really matter the #? Trump used a thing called hyperbole. Biden let them ALL walk right in. That’s what Trump meant and he was right, so how’s it a lie?! You just opened a can of worms being able to use your own interpretation of what the demented President “meant.” Now do that for Trump or let his supporters. Instead you only want it one way. Typical liberal, do as I say, not as I do…
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 30, 2024, 10:32:16 AM
You think it's funny? I think it's sad. Yes. That is what is what he was referring to.

He said that the Border Patrol endorsed him, to which the Border Patrol said that is not true and never will be.

You can spin it all you want but you should maybe direct your concerns to the media and the administration who have covered for a POTUS who may have some good time between 10am and 4pm, and anything else in a 24/7/365 job is iffy.

Who gets the 4pm-10am shifts if decisions must be made ?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 10:41:16 AM

Now do Biden's spin on Charlottesville.


I could mock you back. It appears you have bought the right wing spin on Charlottesville. No amount of facts will change your mind.

You can muck it up all you want. The Unite the Right rally was organized by white nationalists. There was no moral equivalency between the 2 sides.

Who were these very fine people who joined a rally side by side with neo-nazis and the KKK? 

“Again, he didn't refer to Nazis as very fine people. He referred to the people protesting with the Nazis,” Tapper said. “And I don't know who are the good people there. Friday night was 'the Jews will not replace us.' Saturday, somebody was killed. At what point were there good people there?” -- Jake Tapper

"It is true, as the Snopes headline indicates, that Trump said that he was not talking about the white nationalists when offering praise for some of the participants in Unite the Right." -- WaPo article

Who were these good people on the right wing side? Did anyone except Trump see them?

"For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump's characterization was wrong." -- snopes

There weren't good people on both sides.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 10:56:51 AM
But the left says Trump lies about the exact # of illegals coming into our country. Does it really matter the #? Trump used a thing called hyperbole. Biden let them ALL walk right in. That’s what Trump meant and he was right, so how’s it a lie?! You just opened a can of worms being able to use your own interpretation of what the demented President “meant.” Now do that for Trump or let his supporters. Instead you only want it one way. Typical liberal, do as I say, not as I do…

I don't have that kind of influence. I am saying Biden was clearly out of it. He was trying to explain that the border patrol endorsed his bipartisan plan, and it came out wrong because he has a serious problem.

Now, Trump grossly exaggerates the number of undocumented immigrants, he is saying 18 million. He also claims without evidence that lots of them are mentally ill or criminals and they are committing lots and lots of violent and heinous crimes.

If you claim he really meant there 10 to 12 million, that most are seeking jobs and / or asylum, that the violent crimes are isolated cases, but Trump is mentally deranged and needs to consider stepping aside, I'll go along with that.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 30, 2024, 11:13:39 AM
I don't have that kind of influence. I am saying Biden was clearly out of it. He was trying to explain that the border patrol endorsed his bipartisan plan, and it came out wrong because he has a serious problem.

Now, Trump grossly exaggerates the number of undocumented immigrants, he is saying 18 million. He also claims without evidence that lots of them are mentally ill or criminals and they are committing lots and lots of violent and heinous crimes.

If you claim he really meant there 10 to 12 million, that most are seeking jobs and / or asylum, that the violent crimes are isolated cases, but Trump is mentally deranged and needs to consider stepping aside, I'll go along with that.
Biden said they endorsed him, then Biden added that they supported his plan.
The 2 statements are separate issues.

In response, the Border Patrol said they have not and would not endorse him.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 30, 2024, 11:33:14 AM
I could mock you back. It appears you have bought the right wing spin on Charlottesville. No amount of facts will change your mind.

You can muck it up all you want. The United the Right rally was organized by white nationalists. There was no moral equivalency between the 2 sides.

Who were these very fine people who joined a rally side by side with neo-nazis and the KKK? 

“Again, he didn't refer to Nazis as very fine people. He referred to the people protesting with the Nazis,” Tapper said. “And I don't know who are the good people there. Friday night was 'the Jews will not replace us.' Saturday, somebody was killed. At what point were there good people there?” -- Jake Tapper

"It is true, as the Snopes headline indicates, that Trump said that he was not talking about the white nationalists when offering praise for some of the participants in Unite the Right." -- WaPo article

Who were these good people on the right wing side? Did anyone except Trump see them?

"For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump's characterization was wrong." -- snopes

There weren't good people on both sides.
As I said, you may want to direct your concerns at the media if they lead you to believe that there were no individuals present to simply protest the taking down of the statue.
Fast forward a few years and you were told that protests involving burning down city blocks and deaths of people were "mostly peaceful" protests.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 30, 2024, 12:50:30 PM
As I said, you may want to direct your concerns at the media if they lead you to believe that there were no individuals present to simply protest the taking down of the statue.
Fast forward a few years and you were told that protests involving burning down city blocks and deaths of people were "mostly peaceful" protests.

Ouch!

“Mostly Republican Ray” has been convinced by left leaning MSM that “White Nationalists” and Donald Trump are at fault for everything they don’t like about America; that legalizing drugs and being soft on crime gets rid of the crime problem, that hordes of illegals streaming across our “borders” is fine and dandy, and that Joe Biden just had a little trouble communicating.

The Democrat party doesn’t need apologists right now, it needs people who are willing to hold their leaders accountable.

It appears Ray isn’t willing to hold anyone accountable unless their surname is Trump.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 12:54:57 PM
Yeah liberals wanna scream and shout about January 6th, but don’t wanna mention ANYTHING about all the riots, looting, and destruction caused for liberals in big cities like Portland, Milwaukee, etc… that was WAY worse than anything caused in January 6th. Where the fuck you at Ray?!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Reacher on June 30, 2024, 01:20:06 PM
Yeah liberals wanna scream and shout about January 6th, but don’t wanna mention ANYTHING about all the riots, looting, and destruction caused for liberals in big cities like Portland, Milwaukee, etc… that was WAY worse than anything caused in January 6th. Where the fuck you at Ray?!

Way worse than a violent attempted coup at the U.S. Capitol?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 01:35:09 PM
Way worse than a violent attempted coup at the U.S. Capitol?

Yeah, sure, you can call it that 😂🙄
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 02:22:33 PM
Yeah liberals wanna scream and shout about January 6th, but don’t wanna mention ANYTHING about all the riots, looting, and destruction caused for liberals in big cities like Portland, Milwaukee, etc… that was WAY worse than anything caused in January 6th. Where the fuck you at Ray?!

Do you know anyone from Portland? Do you actually know what happened from all sides?

https://www.portland.gov/ipr/news/2022/4/12/lessons-learned-citys-response-protests-exposed-vulnerabilities-portlands-police

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/portland-protests-what-happened-in-2020-whats-next-in-2021/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/portland-protesters-bivens-rcna128596 

How would the right wing have reacted if the peaceful Trump supporters on Jan 6 had been attacked with heavy duty crowd control munitions?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 02:28:14 PM
Do you know anyone from Portland? Do you actually know what happened from all sides?

https://www.portland.gov/ipr/news/2022/4/12/lessons-learned-citys-response-protests-exposed-vulnerabilities-portlands-police

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/portland-protests-what-happened-in-2020-whats-next-in-2021/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/portland-protesters-bivens-rcna128596 

How would the right wing have reacted if the peaceful Trump supporters on Jan 6 had been attacked with heavy duty crowd control munitions?

You literally will defend them no matter what, won’t you?! It’s mind blowing 🤯

Now do Milwaukee and all the other major cities that were being destroyed…
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 02:36:09 PM
Ouch!

“Mostly Republican Ray” has been convinced by left leaning MSM ... that Joe Biden just had a little trouble communicating.

Biden reminded me of a friend that went down hill with dementia really fast. He insisted he was fine and tried to drive ... 

That said, for most of the debate, Biden made no sense at all. I hope it was just a bad night.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 02:38:38 PM
You literally will defend them no matter what, won’t you?! It’s mind blowing 🤯

Now do Milwaukee and all the other major cities that were being destroyed…

you need to get news from more than those alt right sources.

Who is them?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 02:43:44 PM

Mollycoddling poor blacks, abortion fanatics, and the relatively insignificant LGBTQIA+ community with infirm or deeply unpopular candidates isn’t getting the job done in the suburbs and exurbs. Might be time for a little more nuanced strategy than “Trump is a mean tweeting fascist”

Mollycoddling poor whites, anti-abortion fanatics, and homophobes is a marginally better strategy?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 02:54:10 PM
that legalizing drugs and being soft on crime gets rid of the crime problem

So you're against legalizing pot? Now I *know* you're an idiot
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 02:55:25 PM
Yeah liberals wanna scream and shout about January 6th, but don’t wanna mention ANYTHING about all the riots, looting, and destruction caused for liberals in big cities like Portland, Milwaukee, etc… that was WAY worse than anything caused in January 6th. Where the fuck you at Ray?!

Did Biden offer to pardon any of those people? Say that anyone arrested for breaking the window of a Starbucks was a patriot being abused by the system?

Of course not. Biden can't pronounce the word "abused"!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 02:57:10 PM
You literally will defend them no matter what, won’t you?! It’s mind blowing 🤯

Now do Milwaukee and all the other major cities that were being destroyed…

Have to admit that Milwaukee was, indeed, destroyed

https://www.wpr.org/news/milwaukee-bucks-exit-playoffs-first-round
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 02:58:23 PM
Biden reminded me of a friend that went down hill with dementia really fast. He insisted he was fine and tried to drive ... 

That said, for most of the debate, Biden made no sense at all. I hope it was just a bad night.

I hope it was a good night. He's going downhill fast. If that was just a bad night, he'll have enough good nights to stay in and lose the election.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 03:02:16 PM
Did Biden offer to pardon any of those people? Say that anyone arrested for breaking the window of a Starbucks was a patriot being abused by the system?

Of course not. Biden can't pronounce the word "abused"!

Were any of them hunted down and prosecuted like the ones at the Capitol?!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 03:07:11 PM
As I said, you may want to direct your concerns at the media if they lead you to believe that there were no individuals present to simply protest the taking down of the statue.
Fast forward a few years and you were told that protests involving burning down city blocks and deaths of people were "mostly peaceful" protests.

Trump said he was completely exonerated.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 30, 2024, 03:07:59 PM
Gotta love Custard's "The Dems should be courting me!!" schtick.   
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on June 30, 2024, 03:13:03 PM
Is disappointing that some think Trump is an incredible debater.   

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 03:15:31 PM
Have to admit that Milwaukee was, indeed, destroyed

https://www.wpr.org/news/milwaukee-bucks-exit-playoffs-first-round

😂 I see what I did. I meant Minneapolis, not Milwaukee, oops, good call out.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on June 30, 2024, 03:59:25 PM
I mean, yeah, that’s the sad part, right? According to Democrats Trump is the worst candidate ever, and yet he looks to be a shoo-in for beating the Democratic nominee in 2 out of 3 elections.

At some point you have to be responsible for coming up with someone demonstrably better in the eyes of the voters. You can’t rely on just belittling them into your way of thinking.

It seems every cycle people on here and every social media I come across predict the end of the GOP and a runaway Democrat future that’s akin to single party rule. Yet the party is always like, “Hold my beer!” and then proceeds to step on its collective dick over and over again.

And I’ve said it a million times over the years on the different HQs—I am the exact person the Democrat party should be trying to bring into the fold. A middle class working guy that can comfortably vote either way depending on the candidate and the messaging.

Mollycoddling poor blacks, abortion fanatics, and the relatively insignificant LGBTQIA+ community with infirm or deeply unpopular candidates isn’t getting the job done in the suburbs and exurbs. Might be time for a little more nuanced strategy than “Trump is a mean tweeting fascist”

This is pure mental masturbation.  Why would Democrats bother courting someone who gets most of his talking points from the Ron DeSanctimonious wing of the Republican Party.


Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 04:14:08 PM
This is pure mental masturbation.  Why would Democrats bother courting someone who gets most of his talking points from the Ron DeSanctimonious wing of the Republican Party.

You got a link for this, bot?!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 30, 2024, 04:22:20 PM
Mollycoddling poor whites, anti-abortion fanatics, and homophobes is a marginally better strategy?

We already know who they’re voting for. Democrats need to mollycoddle the working class.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 30, 2024, 04:23:38 PM
So you're against legalizing pot? Now I *know* you're an idiot

🙄
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 04:49:50 PM
Were any of them hunted down and prosecuted like the ones at the Capitol?!

Joseph Rosenbaum, Anthony Huber
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 04:52:47 PM
As I said, you may want to direct your concerns at the media if they lead you to believe that there were no individuals present to simply protest the taking down of the statue.
Fast forward a few years and you were told that protests involving burning down city blocks and deaths of people were "mostly peaceful" protests.

The one I still can't understand is - if the Trump supporters on Jan 6 were going to be peaceful and patriotic, as they were ordered by their leader Donald Trump, and they are devotees of said leader...

Why did that leader feel the need to offer 10,000 National Guardsment to guard the Capitol? Why would they need a police presence for peaceful patriots?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 05:22:13 PM
The one I still can't understand is - if the Trump supporters on Jan 6 were going to be peaceful and patriotic, as they were ordered by their leader Donald Trump, and they are devotees of said leader...

Why did that leader feel the need to offer 10,000 National Guardsment to guard the Capitol? Why would they need a police presence for peaceful patriots?

This isn’t hard…

You really don’t think people on the opposite side wanna start shit?! It’s usually done on purpose just to create exactly what we saw. Also there are always bad actors and things that could happen. You get a bunch of people together in the same area in a very stressful environment, and things can go sideways really quick. Now ask yourself, why did Pelosi deny to have the National Guard there?! I think we know the answer.

You- the Democrats know what they’re doing with senile Biden letting him debate. It’s all part of this secret master plan. They’re so smart!

Also you- see you post above I replied to. 🥴
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 05:35:45 PM
Peloso had no authority to accept or deny the national guard. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 05:40:29 PM
Trump Tries to Blame Nancy Pelosi for Jan. 6 in Lie-Heavy Debate
Nikki McCann Ramirez
Thu, 27 June 2024 at 11:01 pm GMT-5
3-min read

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-blames-nancy-pelosi-jan-6-debate-1235048545/
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on June 30, 2024, 05:54:18 PM
Peloso had no authority to accept or deny the national guard.

You’re being purposely obtuse…
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on June 30, 2024, 06:03:19 PM
You’re being purposely obtuse…

wtf. It is a simple fact. You are being lied to by sleazy right wing Republicans who deliberately and dishonestly took Pelosi's words out of context. They think you are too stupid to see for yourself.

Trump lied. Republicans lied.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 06:50:22 PM
This isn’t hard…

You really don’t think people on the opposite side wanna start shit?! It’s usually done on purpose just to create exactly what we saw. Also there are always bad actors and things that could happen. You get a bunch of people together in the same area in a very stressful environment, and things can go sideways really quick. Now ask yourself, why did Pelosi deny to have the National Guard there?! I think we know the answer.

You- the Democrats know what they’re doing with senile Biden letting him debate. It’s all part of this secret master plan. They’re so smart!

Also you- see you post above I replied to. 🥴

So you're saying those persecuted people that Trump wants to pardon are Antifa?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 06:51:21 PM
Peloso had no authority to accept or deny the national guard.

That's the checkers answer. At least play chess. "Why did we need troops if your supporters are fine people?"
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 06:53:38 PM
wtf. It is a simple fact. You are being lied to by sleazy right wing Republicans who deliberately and dishonestly took Pelosi's words out of context. They think you are too stupid to see for yourself.

Trump lied. Republicans lied.

it's a dumb fact. Trump makes up this shit that he offered Pelosi troops to get you to argue that this isn't Pelosi's perogative so now we are arguing about whether or not Pelosi was offered troops or whether she is allowed to accept troops instead of focusing on the fact that Trump sent his minions to go bash up the capitol. A classic distraction by trump and it keeps working
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on June 30, 2024, 09:49:21 PM
wtf. It is a simple fact. You are being lied to by sleazy right wing Republicans who deliberately and dishonestly took Pelosi's words out of context. They think you are too stupid to see for yourself.

Trump lied. Republicans lied.
Who is responsible for Capitol security ?
The Capitol Police Board composed of the Architect and the 2 sargeants-at-arms who reported to Pelosi and McConnell.
Trump has to authorize the troops and then the determinations on use were made by the Board, 2 of whose members report to Pelosi and McConnell.
In a situation where "optics" may be a concern, who makes the final decision ?
I don't remember McConnell's name ever being attached to "optics".
Pelosi accepted responsibility. One of the decision makers reported to her.
For some unknown reason, Pelosi's daughter was there to film on Jan 6.

Wasn't the Jan6 committee supposed to figure this all out ? Or was that in their deleted files ?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on June 30, 2024, 10:10:55 PM
Who is responsible for Capitol security ?


Why does the Capitol need security from Donald Trump's hooligans?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on June 30, 2024, 10:45:07 PM
This is pure mental masturbation.  Why would Democrats bother courting someone who gets most of his talking points from the Ron DeSanctimonious wing of the Republican Party.

If there’s one thing that we can count on here, it’s that you and Ray will label any opinion that is at odds with with your identity politics as “right wing”
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 06:50:44 AM
If there’s one thing that we can count on here, it’s that you and Ray will label any opinion that is at odds with with your identity politics as “right wing”

If one thing is clear, you will always mislabel my right of center, definitely not identity politics. Identity politics is what is wrong with the left. Trumpism is white identity politics.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 06:57:32 AM
The media and the Dems want to tell you that Trump lies constantly so that you don't mention that Biden, during the debate, also said that Abbey gate didn't happen.

(https://i.ibb.co/1r3NQdL/Screenshot-20230310-055536.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QPZVQCf)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 07:00:47 AM
Trump actually said this:

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that, too. It sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.”

https://youtu.be/zicGxU5MfwE?feature=shared
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 07:05:34 AM
If one thing is clear, you will always mislabel my right of center, definitely not identity politics. Identity politics is what is wrong with the left. Trumpism is white identity politics.
(https://i.ibb.co/fGg70ks/Getty-Images-493351484.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QjgGmP4)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 07:11:46 AM
Trump actually said this:

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that, too. It sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.”

https://youtu.be/zicGxU5MfwE?feature=shared
Yep.
And the left turned suggesting using science to combat a disease that the world, other than the chefs who cooked it up, knew nothing about that the media and the left turned into Trump told people to drink bleach.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 07:13:46 AM
Trump actually said this:

"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that, too. It sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.”

https://youtu.be/zicGxU5MfwE?feature=shared
Yep.

"Ultraviolet light treatments introduced into the tracheas of five critically ill COVID-19 patients appeared to be safe and associated with a reduction in the respiratory load of SARS-CoV-2—the virus responsible for COVID-19—in all but one patient, according to a study conducted by Cedars-Sinai."
https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 07:14:43 AM
Trump misrepresented the facts 30 times to 9 for Biden. Plus Biden appeared most often to be confused; while Trump's lies appeared to be mostly deliberate and malicious.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 07:28:02 AM
Yep.

"Ultraviolet light treatments introduced into the tracheas of five critically ill COVID-19 patients appeared to be safe and associated with a reduction in the respiratory load of SARS-CoV-2—the virus responsible for COVID-19—in all but one patient, according to a study conducted by Cedars-Sinai."
https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/

Yes, and the reason they tested this was, of course, because Trump suggested it. /S

"And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body,"

He is also suggesting injecting disinfectants. He had talked about bleach as a disinfectant iirc.

I recall him bragging about how medical people consulted with him, because he had such a knack for it.

I think this was also in the broader context of using quinines  and other anti-parasitics. Injecting bleach became a shorthand.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 07:34:11 AM
Yes, and the reason they tested this was, of course, because Trump suggested it. /S

"And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body,"

He is also suggesting injecting disinfectants. He had talked about bleach as a disinfectant iirc.

I recall him bragging about how medical people consulted with him, because he had such a knack for it.

I think this was also in the broader context of using quinines  and other anti-parasitics. Injecting bleach became a shorthand.
And people everywhere wiped everything down constantly because people other than Trump said it needed to be done.
Wipe your Amazon packages before bringing them into your house. 😂😂
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 07:37:19 AM
And people everywhere wiped everything down constantly because people other than Trump said it needed to be done.
Wipe your Amazon packages before bringing them into your house. 😂😂

" an article from the website Hollywood LA News treated the news as more of a sure thing. The story, headlined “UV light to be used as disinfectant in treating COVID-19 patients,” had more than 1,200 shares in The Official Rush Limbaugh Facebook Group."

“We would like to inform the public that there are no protocols to advise or permit the safe use of UV light directly on the human body at the wavelengths and exposures proven to efficiently kill viruses such as SARS-CoV-2,” a joint news release from the groups said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/02/fact-check-covid-19-uv-light-treatment-research-underway-los-angeles/3053177001/
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 07:38:00 AM
Trump misrepresented the facts 30 times to 9 for Biden. Plus Biden appeared most often to be confused; while Trump's lies appeared to be mostly deliberate and malicious.
Vote for whomever you want. I don't care.
Vote for the guy who said Abbey gate didn't happen. Tell the family members that Biden was just confused. That should go over well.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 07:45:52 AM
" an article from the website Hollywood LA News treated the news as more of a sure thing. The story, headlined “UV light to be used as disinfectant in treating COVID-19 patients,” had more than 1,200 shares in The Official Rush Limbaugh Facebook Group."

“We would like to inform the public that there are no protocols to advise or permit the safe use of UV light directly on the human body at the wavelengths and exposures proven to efficiently kill viruses such as SARS-CoV-2,” a joint news release from the groups said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/05/02/fact-check-covid-19-uv-light-treatment-research-underway-los-angeles/3053177001/
Some strong work here.
Using a May 2020 USA Today article to argue a July 2021 Cedar-Sinai release about their findings published in a peer-reviewed journal.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 08:16:42 AM
Vote for whomever you want. I don't care.
Vote for the guy who said Abbey gate didn't happen. Tell the family members that Biden was just confused. That should go over well.

"There were 2,459 United States military deaths in the War in Afghanistan, which lasted from October 2001 to August 2021. 1,922 of these deaths were the result of hostile action.

Tell the families of the other 2546 that the only ones who matter were the 13 at Abbey Gate.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 08:23:05 AM
"There were 2,459 United States military deaths in the War in Afghanistan, which lasted from October 2001 to August 2021. 1,922 of these deaths were the result of hostile action.

Tell the families of the other 2546 that the only ones who matter were the 13 at Abbey Gate.
Biden was the one, not Trump, who said Thursday that no service members died under his watch.
Spin it all you want.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 01, 2024, 10:41:02 AM
I guess I don’t see the point of continuing to be a Joe Biden apologist and cheerleader at this point. Yes, I know he is currently the alternative to Trump and for many that’s all it takes, but Biden is done. He has no business being in office for 4.5 more years, if he can even live that long. The best bet is to cut bait and get someone better in there ASAP rather than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Reacher on July 01, 2024, 11:23:58 AM
Yeah, sure, you can call it that 😂🙄

What else would I call it? A tourist visit?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ILLove1997 on July 01, 2024, 11:37:01 AM
What else would I call it? A tourist visit?

unguided tour?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Reacher on July 01, 2024, 11:42:17 AM
unguided tour?

That included gallows and the objective of overturning a democratic election?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 01, 2024, 12:16:49 PM
That included gallows and the objective of overturning a democratic election?

I’m sure 1/6 was reported about as accurately as the protests of 2020. As in, 100% partisan when the truth lies more in the middle.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 01, 2024, 12:19:29 PM
Gotta love Custard's "The Dems should be courting me!!" schtick.

They 100% should. I’m part of the class of people they used to identify as a core constituency, but have lost sight of in all the pandering to special interest groups.

It’s always the economy!

Enjoy losing to one of the worst candidates of all time…again.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 01:04:59 PM
Biden was the one, not Trump, who said Thursday that no service members died under his watch.
Spin it all you want.

I don't give a fuck what came out of Biden's mouth. He clearly was not right in the head.

Biden is sick.

Trump is evil and compared to a mentally disabled Biden, relatively good at it.

I don't understand why you are gloating about it.

A competent debater armed with facts and minimal communication skills would have easily defeated Trump.

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 01, 2024, 01:07:15 PM
I don't give a fuck what came out of Biden's mouth. He clearly was not right in the head.

Biden is sick.

Trump is evil and compared to a mentally disabled Biden, relatively good at it.

I don't understand why you are gloating about it.

A competent debater armed with facts and minimal communication skills would have easily defeated Trump.

Sounds like a low bar that even the Democrats can’t even meet…
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 01:14:19 PM
Sounds like a low bar that even the Democrats can’t even meet…

A below average, barely competent Biden shredded Trump twice in 2020. Yet Trump is the best the Republicans can come up with?

Biden was coherent when he delivered the SotU in March. He is also an incumbent.

Trump is a convicted felon who tried to overthrow the government and even  tried to have his own VP lynched. What's the Republicans excuse? Does Trump have dossiers on everyone? Why do they fear him?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 01, 2024, 01:23:41 PM
A below average, barely competent Biden shredded Trump twice in 2020. Yet Trump is the best the Republicans can come up with?

Biden was coherent when he delivered the SotU in March. He is also an incumbent.

Trump is a convicted felon who tried to overthrow the government and even  tried to have his own VP lynched. What's the Republicans excuse? Does Trump have dossiers on everyone? Why do they fear him?

I don’t know, you tell us why they fear him?!
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 01:36:59 PM
I don’t know, you tell us why they fear him?!

Every time someone stands up to him, they either wind up being his toady, or the maga horde goes after them like angry hornets. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 01, 2024, 01:47:28 PM
Vote for whomever you want. I don't care.
Vote for the guy who said Abbey gate didn't happen. Tell the family members that Biden was just confused. That should go over well.

Trump said Afghanistan was the "Most embarrassing moment in the history of our country"

Much worse than say - Slavery? Vietnam? 9/11?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 01, 2024, 01:49:36 PM

A competent debater armed with facts and minimal communication skills would have easily defeated Trump.

Exactly! So why are you arguing against jettisoning the guy?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 01, 2024, 01:52:03 PM
A below average, barely competent Biden shredded Trump twice in 2020. Yet Trump is the best the Republicans can come up with?

Biden was coherent when he delivered the SotU in March. He is also an incumbent.

Trump is a convicted felon who tried to overthrow the government and even  tried to have his own VP lynched. What's the Republicans excuse? Does Trump have dossiers on everyone? Why do they fear him?

Pretty sure Trump does not have dossiers on the millions who voted for him instead of Nikki Haley, Chris Christie, Ron DeSantis, etc....

Trump is the choice of the voters in the Republican party. They were given that choice.

If anyone has a "dossier" it would be Biden? Why didn't all these reasonable candidates not jump into a primary?
(I don't think they fear him, they are just being 'good soldiers' and not deferring. You can say a lot about the GOP, but at least a few candidates had the stones to jump into the ring)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 01:53:27 PM
Trump said Afghanistan was the "Most embarrassing moment in the history of our country"

Much worse than say - Slavery? Vietnam? 9/11?

McCarthyism?

The House Un-American Activities Committee
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 02:16:15 PM
If anyone has a "dossier" it would be Biden? Why didn't all these reasonable candidates not jump into a primary?
(I don't think they fear him, they are just being 'good soldiers' and not deferring. You can say a lot about the GOP, but at least a few candidates had the stones to jump into the ring)

When Trump was an incumbent, who ran against him?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 02:22:52 PM
Trump accused Biden of weaponizing the justice department -- something Trump actually did. Not only that, SCOTUS now says Trump has immunity. So even if Biden were behind the prosecution of Trump, he is protected by immunity.

I am now wondering what official acts Biden, or his successor, can carry out against Trump?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 01, 2024, 02:46:10 PM
When Trump was an incumbent, who ran against him?

You and Alum are on a roll today.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 01, 2024, 03:01:46 PM
Trump accused Biden of weaponizing the justice department -- something Trump actually did. Not only that, SCOTUS now says Trump has immunity. So even if Biden were behind the prosecution of Trump, he is protected by immunity.

I am now wondering what official acts Biden, or his successor, can carry out against Trump?
There are plenty of people that you can refer to for ideas. KBJ and Aaron Rupar to start.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on July 01, 2024, 03:25:14 PM
Trump said Afghanistan was the "Most embarrassing moment in the history of our country"

Much worse than say - Slavery? Vietnam? 9/11?

Cubs winning in 2016. Fucking Terry Francona piece of shit.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 01, 2024, 04:32:06 PM
They 100% should. I’m part of the class of people they used to identify as a core constituency, but have lost sight of in all the pandering to special interest groups.

It’s always the economy!

Enjoy losing to one of the worst candidates of all time…again.

I think RFK Jr. would be a much better fit for you.   

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 01, 2024, 04:33:19 PM
I think RFK Jr. would be a much better fit for you.

No link?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Illinifan5775 on July 01, 2024, 05:25:01 PM
Trump said Afghanistan was the "Most embarrassing moment in the history of our country"

Much worse than say - Slavery? Vietnam? 9/11?
+1
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 01, 2024, 06:53:20 PM
Awe…

https://x.com/dc_draino/status/1807787008837714290?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 01, 2024, 07:14:13 PM
Awe…

https://x.com/dc_draino/status/1807787008837714290?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

Not quite. That implied full immunity.

a president “may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled, at a minimum, to a presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts.”

Also, immunized official acts can't be used as trial evidence.

but the president “enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the President does is official. The President is not above the law.”

Apparently, this goes back to lower courts to sort out which acts were official and which were private.

Pretty much a victory for the narcissist.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 01, 2024, 07:28:38 PM
Not quite. That implied full immunity.

a president “may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled, at a minimum, to a presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts.”

Also, immunized official acts can't be used as trial evidence.

but the president “enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the President does is official. The President is not above the law.”

Apparently, this goes back to lower courts to sort out which acts were official and which were private.

Pretty much a victory for the narcissist.

Dear Joe, do what you gotta do to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 01, 2024, 07:42:31 PM
Dear Joe, do what you gotta do to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

resign, let Kamala take a victory lap and clear the way for President Newsom.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on July 01, 2024, 10:16:42 PM
This is going to bite the Supreme Court and the Republicans right in the ass.

Just wait.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on July 01, 2024, 10:17:23 PM
Dear Joe, do what you gotta do to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Will be interesting to say the least.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 01, 2024, 10:35:30 PM
resign, let Kamala take a victory lap and clear the way for President Newsom.

Keep pining for Newsom.  I have trouble thinking he would catch fire.  He always seems to come across as too smooth, too blithe, too conscious of his own image and appearance, too artificially constructed, too calculated, too Ken doll.  I’d vote for him if he was the nominee but wouldn’t put him anywhere near the top of my list of potential replacements for Biden. 

Newsom is handicapped merely by being the Governor of California.  He’s viewed as a “left coast” politician and that would not play well in the battleground states. 

Perhaps he will be the nominee in 2028 if Trump wins in November.  For now, Newsom should focus on finishing his memoir.  I heard he's already picked out the title, “The Courage to Lead.”  He can also continue to bicker with DeSantis on national teevee. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 01, 2024, 11:03:54 PM
Keep pining for Newsom.  I have trouble thinking he would catch fire.  He always seems to come across as too smooth, too blithe, too conscious of his own image and appearance, too artificially constructed, too calculated, too Ken doll.  I’d vote for him if he was the nominee but wouldn’t put him anywhere near the top of my list of potential replacements for Biden. 

Newsom is handicapped merely by being the Governor of California.  He’s viewed as a “left coast” politician and that would not play well in the battleground states. 

Perhaps he will be the nominee in 2028 if Trump wins in November.  For now, Newsom should focus on finishing his memoir.  I heard he's already picked out the title, “The Courage to Lead.”  He can also continue to bicker with DeSantis on national teevee.

You listed all his negatives and then in the same breath said you’d vote for him. He’s not perfect by any means, but he’ll get every dyed-in-the-wool D vote that Biden would get, plus a whole lot more from the folks who saw that clown show the other night and already decided they weren’t going to bother showing up on Election Day.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 01, 2024, 11:50:19 PM
You listed all his negatives and then in the same breath said you’d vote for him. He’s not perfect by any means, but he’ll get every dyed-in-the-wool D vote that Biden would get, plus a whole lot more from the folks who saw that clown show the other night and already decided they weren’t going to bother showing up on Election Day.

Of course I would vote for him if he was the nominee.  But I think they're stronger candidates who would do better in the battleground states.  And I don't think Newsom would replicate Biden's performance in states like Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia and Wisconsin.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 12:42:15 AM
Of course I would vote for him if he was the nominee.  But I think they're stronger candidates who would do better in the battleground states.  And I don't think Newsom would replicate Biden's performance in states like Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia and Wisconsin.

All you need to be is "At least as strong as Joe Biden 4 years ago"

Easy.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 01:15:05 AM
Keep pining for Newsom.  I have trouble thinking he would catch fire.  He always seems to come across as too smooth, too blithe, too conscious of his own image and appearance, too artificially constructed, too calculated, too Ken doll.  I’d vote for him if he was the nominee but wouldn’t put him anywhere near the top of my list of potential replacements for Biden. 

Newsom is handicapped merely by being the Governor of California.  He’s viewed as a “left coast” politician and that would not play well in the battleground states. 

Perhaps he will be the nominee in 2028 if Trump wins in November.  For now, Newsom should focus on finishing his memoir.  I heard he's already picked out the title, “The Courage to Lead.”  He can also continue to bicker with DeSantis on national teevee.

Newsom is a very smart guy and knows good policy. Your critique on his image is well founded, I mean he was in this photo...

https://x.com/ellievhall/status/1298075368654548992

He's scripting a new look. Not dying his hair, and letting it grow scruffy, trading in his suits to wear a fleece with the Bear Republic Logo.

Compare and contrast
https://images.axios.com/YzvIlVLI5IQREz9I-ysNr6-ZPJA=/86x344:3649x2348/1600x900/2019/11/04/1572838985850.jpg?w=1600
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 02, 2024, 08:17:08 AM
I forgot Newsom.was once married to the former lingerie model. I wonder if Victoria's Secret is still a thing with the younger non-binary, gender neutral pronouns generations?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 02, 2024, 09:28:49 AM
Neurologist says Biden exhibited "progressive kind of aphasias and degeneration of word-finding" difficulties.”

That is not a bad night and nothing to do with a cold.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/debates/biden-word-finding-difficulty-debate-neurologist/

Anomic aphasia can be present in otherwise fluent people, but Biden showed signs of a more generalized aphasia.

Also, "expressed concerns about Trump’s “narcissism and perpetual lying essentially and an exaggeration,” which fall into a realm of personality disorders."

"Personality disorders are a form of mental health condition in which people regularly suffer from inflexible and unhealthy thought patterns that affect the way they behave and function in everyday settings. ... people with these types of disorders see their way of thinking as normal and tend to blame others for the challenges they face, maybe feeling constantly victimized."

"Cluster B personality disorders lean toward dramatic characteristics like overly emotional or severe, erratic, or unpredictable behavior and thinking.

There are 4 different Cluster B personality disorders:
Antisocial Personality Disorder
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Histrionic Personality Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder

"Narcissistic Personality Disorder"
Arrogant expectation of adoration and constant praise despite the failure to even notice the needs and feelings of others
Jealousy of others or the preconception that others are jealous of you
Often exaggerates past accomplishments, relationships, or abilities
Convinced that they are better than others and have fantasies of great success, power, and influence."
https://www.ororecovery.com/personality-disorders-and-clusters/
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 10:18:13 AM
I forgot Newsom.was once married to the former lingerie model. I wonder if Victoria's Secret is still a thing with the younger non-binary, gender neutral pronouns generations?

But did you remember this?

https://sfist.com/2007/01/31/holy_crap/

Double play - refutes the "slick, perfect" ideal, without treading into ground already owned by Trump.

Honestly one of the skeeviest moments of the whole debate was Biden getting very flummoxed (yet again) and deciding to just go "well ya ya ya ya ya he slept with a porn star whi whi whi whi whi while his wife was pregnant"

Felt like he was backed into a corner, his mind was melting down and he just threw out a random insult.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 02, 2024, 11:13:45 AM
Newsom is a very smart guy and knows good policy. Your critique on his image is well founded, I mean he was in this photo...

https://x.com/ellievhall/status/1298075368654548992

He's scripting a new look. Not dying his hair, and letting it grow scruffy, trading in his suits to wear a fleece with the Bear Republic Logo.

Compare and contrast
https://images.axios.com/YzvIlVLI5IQREz9I-ysNr6-ZPJA=/86x344:3649x2348/1600x900/2019/11/04/1572838985850.jpg?w=1600

Looks like Gavin has taken a page out of Bruce Rauner’s playbook.  Does he ride a chopper motorcycle or compete in monster truck shows?

Seriously though, I’m troubled by the lack of damage control since the debate.  Biden should be making more public appearances (late night talk shows, ribbon-cutting events, sit-down interviews, etc.).  He’s got to put himself out there; communicating his agenda and explaining why his opponent is a dangerous lunatic.  Instead, the Biden campaign is sliding into bunker mentality mode and hoping the storm blows itself out.  Fairly or unfairly, it seems to confirm that he’s really slipped.   

As to a potential replacement, the thought of a smug-looking California politician pushing Harris aside is risky.  It won’t play well among women and African Americans, who are an important part of the Democratic Party.  And this problem is further exacerbated by the fact that the Democrats have a multitude of factions, including Midwest organized labor, educated urbanites, and Church-affiliated southern Black voters.  By contrast, the Republicans have a singular base, which has rallied around Trump. 

I’m ready to move on from Biden.  But it will require a coalition ticket that appeals to the various party factions.  We also need someone that has the potential to inherit Biden's money and campaign structure.

Here’s my proposed ticket:  Harris-Kelly.   Other options would be Harris-Shapiro and Harris-Cooper. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on July 02, 2024, 12:09:45 PM
Harris isn't winning. Ever.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 12:19:22 PM
Harris isn't winning. Ever.

Truth.

If not Newsom - who I think works because he's so well prepared as a speaker he'll twist Trump into a pretzel - Shapiro (PA), Whitmer (MI), Cooper (complicates NC for Trump), maybe even go nuts and take Beshear, who won't put KY into play but might sweep up the swing states by sending this signal "we took a moderate Gov of a Red State that works well with a very conservative assembly).

Harris would lose by a lot. She's in the same bin as Biden - "voting against Trump"
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 12:29:06 PM
Truth.

If not Newsom - who I think works because he's so well prepared as a speaker he'll twist Trump into a pretzel - Shapiro (PA), Whitmer (MI), Cooper (complicates NC for Trump), maybe even go nuts and take Beshear, who won't put KY into play but might sweep up the swing states by sending this signal "we took a moderate Gov of a Red State that works well with a very conservative assembly).

Harris would lose by a lot. She's in the same bin as Biden - "voting against Trump"

The big problem is that we are all guessing. Had Biden just not run again and we had an open primary, this would be a non-issue. Biden really did us a disservice here.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 02, 2024, 03:01:23 PM
Harris isn't winning. Ever.

Yes, she would be an immediate underdog to Trump, but so would the other Dems being mentioned as an alternative to Biden.  Interestingly, a recent CNN poll shows that Harris might be within striking distance.  So I wouldn't be so quick to write her off.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html

Again, the process by which the Democrats select Biden's successor would be critical, maybe more so than who is ultimately nominated.  If Harris is passed over, a side deal would have to be worked out with her and the African American congressional leadership.  That may be easier said than done.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ILLove1997 on July 02, 2024, 03:04:14 PM
Yes, she would be an immediate underdog to Trump, but so would the other Dems being mentioned as an alternative to Biden.  Interestingly, a recent CNN poll shows that Harris might be within striking distance.  So I wouldn't be so quick to write her off.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html

Again, the process by which the Democrats select Biden's successor would be critical, maybe more so than who is ultimately nominated.  If Harris is passed over, a side deal would have to be worked out with her and the African American congressional leadership.  That may be easier said than done.

why you actually think blacks will all of a sudden start voting for republicans because of the lack of Kamala Harris?

LOL  retard
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 02, 2024, 03:20:12 PM
why you actually think blacks will all of a sudden start voting for republicans because of the lack of Kamala Harris?

LOL  retard

That's not the issue.  Some blacks, particularly women, might decide to sit out this election.  Try to keep up.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on July 02, 2024, 03:20:56 PM
why you actually think blacks will all of a sudden start voting for republicans because of the lack of Kamala Harris?

LOL  retard

Reading is a skill. He didn't type that. We all know the issue would be turnout.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on July 02, 2024, 03:21:20 PM
That's not the issue.  Some blacks, particularly women, might decide to sit out this election.  Try to keep up.

Classic QAnon97....
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 03:26:33 PM
Yes, she would be an immediate underdog to Trump, but so would the other Dems being mentioned as an alternative to Biden.  Interestingly, a recent CNN poll shows that Harris might be within striking distance.  So I wouldn't be so quick to write her off.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html

Again, the process by which the Democrats select Biden's successor would be critical, maybe more so than who is ultimately nominated.  If Harris is passed over, a side deal would have to be worked out with her and the African American congressional leadership.  That may be easier said than done.

The more the public gets to know most of the others, they go up
The more the public gets to know Harris, she goes down
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 03:28:01 PM
That's not the issue.  Some blacks, particularly women, might decide to sit out this election.  Try to keep up.

This old white guy might sit of the election because of the presence of an old white guy

It amuses me when I say "Gavin Newsom" you say "ZOMG CALIFORNIA"
Harris was Newsom's DA in SF, Attorney General in Sacramento, and was the Senator from California
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 02, 2024, 03:41:57 PM
This old white guy might sit of the election because of the presence of an old white guy

It amuses me when I say "Gavin Newsom" you say "ZOMG CALIFORNIA"
Harris was Newsom's DA in SF, Attorney General in Sacramento, and was the Senator from California

You don't have to sit out the election.  Just write in Susan Sarandon. Problem solved.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 02, 2024, 03:45:28 PM
why you actually think blacks will all of a sudden start voting for republicans because of the lack of Kamala Harris?

LOL  retard

It’s striking how many conservative black Christian families you see in the south. Great Society and generations of incentivizing single motherhood wiped out the black family in most places. I also know several gay Christian conservatives. And I am always surprised how much less segregated the southern cities are than the northern ones. Having lived near Chicago most of my life, I was basically taught these things don’t exist.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 02, 2024, 04:06:04 PM
But did you remember this?

https://sfist.com/2007/01/31/holy_crap/

Double play - refutes the "slick, perfect" ideal, without treading into ground already owned by Trump.

Honestly one of the skeeviest moments of the whole debate was Biden getting very flummoxed (yet again) and deciding to just go "well ya ya ya ya ya he slept with a porn star whi whi whi whi whi while his wife was pregnant"

Felt like he was backed into a corner, his mind was melting down and he just threw out a random insult.

I think the last candidate derailed by an affair might have been Gary Hart?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ILLove1997 on July 02, 2024, 04:10:51 PM
  If Harris is passed over, a side deal would have to be worked out with her and the African American congressional leadership.  That may be easier said than done.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 02, 2024, 04:36:53 PM
Voter turnout concerns ?

They've got poll pads, USB drives and millions of newly arrived, illegal faces from all around the world.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 02, 2024, 04:41:57 PM
Illegal faces? Sounds fascinating. Do those have a certain look or complexion that distinguishes them from legal faces?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 02, 2024, 05:07:42 PM
Illegal faces? Sounds fascinating. Do those have a certain look or complexion that distinguishes them from legal faces?
Nope.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 06:38:23 PM
I also know several gay Christian conservatives.

What's amusing is that you know they are gay but their wives don't.

until they get caught with a male hooker anyway
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 06:39:41 PM
I think the last candidate derailed by an affair might have been Gary Hart?

Depends on if you think John Edwards was not on the rails in the first place.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on July 02, 2024, 07:45:53 PM
They 100% should. I’m part of the class of people they used to identify as a core constituency, but have lost sight of in all the pandering to special interest groups.

It’s always the economy!

Enjoy losing to one of the worst candidates of all time…again.

What are the economic policies that will get your vote?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on July 02, 2024, 07:54:58 PM
I'll be absolutely shocked if the Dems replace Biden with a white male like Newsom.

If there is some grand scheme to replacement Biden, Michelle Obama, will be the replacement. 

Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup. Michelle Obama, author of the best-selling 2018 memoir "Becoming," has said repeatedly she does not intend to run for president.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/one-three-democrats-think-biden-should-quit-race-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2024-07-02/
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on July 02, 2024, 08:09:36 PM
Harris isn't winning. Ever.

Biden's corpse is a better option.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on July 02, 2024, 09:07:51 PM
I think the last candidate derailed by an affair might have been Gary Hart?

John Edwards said "Hold my beer."
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 02, 2024, 09:42:38 PM
I'll be absolutely shocked if the Dems replace Biden with a white male like Newsom.

If there is some grand scheme to replacement Biden, Michelle Obama, will be the replacement. 

Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup. Michelle Obama, author of the best-selling 2018 memoir "Becoming," has said repeatedly she does not intend to run for president.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/one-three-democrats-think-biden-should-quit-race-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2024-07-02/

Hard to argue with this. Just look at the makeup of the convention delegates; lots and lots of women and African Americans.  And how would they respond to Newsom.  "Oh look, they want to replace a white man with another white man."  That's not going to pass muster.  Sorry Murph, but I think Newsom knows he's toast for 2024. 

Michelle would no doubt be a great candidate, but I agree that she probably doesn't want the job.  On the other hand, opening up the convention to a bunch of dueling candidates very much risks opening fissures within the Democratic coalition, and those sorts of fissures cannot possibly by healed within 2.5 months no matter how short people's memories are.  Keep in mind the pundits and media would love to tell people how unorganized and divided Democrats are.  Even worse, Custard would be concern trolling throughout the process. 

The other big elephant in the room is Joe Biden.  Whatever his flaws as a candidate, Biden has been a good political manager of the disparate Democratic coalition. That, more than anything else, was what kept a high-profile primary candidate from challenging him.

Here's how I think things will play out. I hope Biden will be persuaded by party leaders to bow out.  If and when that happens, I believe he will endorse Harris as his successor as a way of strongly signaling that she is the inheritor of his coalition.  The torch will be passed to her before the convention takes place.  Then everyone will fall in line, and the auditions for VP would begin.

I understand that some folks here will not like this scenario.  That's fine.  However, I don't believe Biden will abandon Harris, if he decides to withdraw.  That's not his style. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 10:10:29 PM
I'll be absolutely shocked if the Dems replace Biden with a white male like Newsom.

If there is some grand scheme to replacement Biden, Michelle Obama, will be the replacement. 

Among the names of top Democrats put before respondents, only Michelle Obama, wife of former Democratic President Barack Obama, outperformed Biden and led Trump 50% to 39% in a hypothetical matchup. Michelle Obama, author of the best-selling 2018 memoir "Becoming," has said repeatedly she does not intend to run for president.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/one-three-democrats-think-biden-should-quit-race-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2024-07-02/

You know what they say about hypotheticals.

A much younger Hillary Clinton lost to Trump. Biden looked like shit 4 years ago and beat Trump. If you gotta win, you gotta go with a good candidate. Whitmer is the only non-white-male available. And I don't think she can overrun Trump.

This is gonna happen. Julian Castro goes on TV to say Biden should drop out and Harris should be in. The minions are all starting to pick their horses so they get a patronage job if it happens. This will accellerate.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 02, 2024, 10:13:11 PM
Hard to argue with this. Just look at the makeup of the convention delegates; lots and lots of women and African Americans.  And how would they respond to Newsom.  "Oh look, they want to replace a white man with another white man."  That's not going to pass muster.  Sorry Murph, but I think Newsom knows he's toast for 2024. 

Michelle would no doubt be a great candidate, but I agree that she probably doesn't want the job.  On the other hand, opening up the convention to a bunch of dueling candidates very much risks opening fissures within the Democratic coalition, and those sorts of fissures cannot possibly by healed within 2.5 months no matter how short people's memories are.  Keep in mind the pundits and media would love to tell people how unorganized and divided Democrats are.  Even worse, Custard would be concern trolling throughout the process. 

The other big elephant in the room is Joe Biden.  Whatever his flaws as a candidate, Biden has been a good political manager of the disparate Democratic coalition. That, more than anything else, was what kept a high-profile primary candidate from challenging him.

Here's how I think things will play out. I hope Biden will be persuaded by party leaders to bow out.  If and when that happens, I believe he will endorse Harris as his successor as a way of strongly signaling that she is the inheritor of his coalition.  The torch will be passed to her before the convention takes place.  Then everyone will fall in line, and the auditions for VP would begin.

I understand that some folks here will not like this scenario.  That's fine.  However, I don't believe Biden will abandon Harris, if he decides to withdraw.  That's not his style.

How can we get some money on this?

They learned their lesson with Hillary. Harris is a less personable, mixed race Hillary.

If a white male doesn't get the African American women vote, they would lose.
Harris would get zero of the swing vote, and will definitely lose.

The first option has an infinitely higher probability of success.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on July 02, 2024, 10:33:04 PM
You know what they say about hypotheticals.

A much younger Hillary Clinton lost to Trump. Biden looked like shit 4 years ago and beat Trump. If you gotta win, you gotta go with a good candidate. Whitmer is the only non-white-male available. And I don't think she can overrun Trump.

This is gonna happen. Julian Castro goes on TV to say Biden should drop out and Harris should be in. The minions are all starting to pick their horses so they get a patronage job if it happens. This will accellerate.

Hillary was vetted for years and being Secretary of State did not help her in the 2016 General Election.   

Michelle Obama may be a weak candidate, but the right may have under 100 days to vet her...
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on July 02, 2024, 10:35:16 PM
Hard to argue with this. Just look at the makeup of the convention delegates; lots and lots of women and African Americans.  And how would they respond to Newsom.  "Oh look, they want to replace a white man with another white man."  That's not going to pass muster.  Sorry Murph, but I think Newsom knows he's toast for 2024. 

Michelle would no doubt be a great candidate, but I agree that she probably doesn't want the job.  On the other hand, opening up the convention to a bunch of dueling candidates very much risks opening fissures within the Democratic coalition, and those sorts of fissures cannot possibly by healed within 2.5 months no matter how short people's memories are.  Keep in mind the pundits and media would love to tell people how unorganized and divided Democrats are.  Even worse, Custard would be concern trolling throughout the process. 

The other big elephant in the room is Joe Biden.  Whatever his flaws as a candidate, Biden has been a good political manager of the disparate Democratic coalition. That, more than anything else, was what kept a high-profile primary candidate from challenging him.

Here's how I think things will play out. I hope Biden will be persuaded by party leaders to bow out.  If and when that happens, I believe he will endorse Harris as his successor as a way of strongly signaling that she is the inheritor of his coalition.  The torch will be passed to her before the convention takes place.  Then everyone will fall in line, and the auditions for VP would begin.

I understand that some folks here will not like this scenario.  That's fine.  However, I don't believe Biden will abandon Harris, if he decides to withdraw.  That's not his style.

Trump in a landslide if Harris is the nominee.   She's viewed as insufferable and isn't going to change her low favorability rating in such a short time. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 03, 2024, 09:02:23 AM
I would still vote for the guy with progressive aphasia over the narcissistic fascist or the antivaxxer.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 03, 2024, 10:15:56 AM
I would still vote for the guy with progressive aphasia over the narcissistic fascist or the antivaxxer.

I think the system sucks and no one in this group deserves a vote. It’s pathetic when people are forced to choose among three terrible candidates and feel comfortable doing it because they’re voting against ______.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 03, 2024, 12:02:09 PM
I think the system sucks and no one in this group deserves a vote. It’s pathetic when people are forced to choose among three terrible candidates and feel comfortable doing it because they’re voting against ______.

I don't feel comfortable voting for a man with progressive aphasia. I feel less uncomfortable.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 03, 2024, 01:27:38 PM
Trump in a landslide if Harris is the nominee.   She's viewed as insufferable and isn't going to change her low favorability rating in such a short time.

Well...If there's to be a switch, then it must be planned, crafted, and reasoned, and with full support of the party (or as full as it gets).

The first thing is for Biden to pull out.  Hopefully by Monday, but no later than Wednesday.  They'll strategize over the weekend no doubt. 

A few more days is less time on the clock, but far better than  a ham-handed announcement that reeks of desperation.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 03, 2024, 01:42:41 PM
I don't feel comfortable voting for a man with progressive aphasia. I feel less uncomfortable.
Do you have a link to Biden's diagnosis of "progressive aphasia" ?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Jrock74 on July 03, 2024, 02:47:42 PM
Well...If there's to be a switch, then it must be planned, crafted, and reasoned, and with full support of the party (or as full as it gets).

The first thing is for Biden to pull out.  Hopefully by Monday, but no later than Wednesday.  They'll strategize over the weekend no doubt. 

A few more days is less time on the clock, but far better than  a ham-handed announcement that reeks of desperation.

I've seen a couple of polls with Michelle anywhere 8 to 12 points higher than Trump. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 03, 2024, 04:12:31 PM
I've seen a couple of polls with Michelle anywhere 8 to 12 points higher than Trump.

I for one am completely sick of family dynasties in the White House
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 03, 2024, 04:34:32 PM
Do you have a link to Biden's diagnosis of "progressive aphasia" ?

Yes
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 03, 2024, 04:57:27 PM
Yes
Would you care to share it ?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 03, 2024, 04:59:06 PM
Would you care to share it ?

No. I have the greatest link ever. No one has ever seen a link this one. It is terrific link as a matter of fact. I am the best at finding links.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 03, 2024, 05:23:48 PM
No. I have the greatest link ever. No one has ever seen a link this one. It is terrific link as a matter of fact. I am the best at finding links.
Your choice.
For a second there, I thought you had access to a diagnosis that may indicate that POTUS is not a national security risk. And that he just has an issue with word selection sometimes.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 03, 2024, 05:39:05 PM
Nichi hanging on like one of those Japanese soldiers after WWII!

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 03, 2024, 06:40:48 PM
Nichi hanging on like one of those Japanese soldiers after WWII!

Which - it's not like anyone is expressing a preference for Trump here.... Just saying that Biden sucks.
And that we have the ability as a nation to get rid of Biden AND not in the process choose Trump
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 03, 2024, 07:50:55 PM
Your choice.
For a second there, I thought you had access to a diagnosis that may indicate that POTUS is not a national security risk. And that he just has an issue with word selection sometimes.

If anyone is a national security risk; it's the narcissistic fascist who relies on Russia for funding.

I linked the story already. A neurologist who watched the debate weighed in. Paraphrasing, he said Biden exhibited symptoms of progressive aphasia. He also suggested Trump displayed characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder.

Again, I am not quoting the guy verbatim.

This is not a true medical diagnosis since the neurologist did not actually see them as  patient.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 03, 2024, 07:53:33 PM
Nichi hanging on like one of those Japanese soldiers after WWII!

I am not the one who thinks Trump is somehow a viable alternative.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 03, 2024, 08:05:46 PM
https://x.com/endwokeness/status/1808551094554955983?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 03, 2024, 10:24:25 PM
https://x.com/endwokeness/status/1808551094554955983?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

That was hilarious.

Trump calling Harris weird.

For the way she speaks.
 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 04, 2024, 07:12:57 AM
That was hilarious.

Trump calling Harris weird.

For the way she speaks.
 
That's not what he said tho.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 04, 2024, 09:12:15 AM
That's not what he said tho.g

It's what he said. The way she speaks is weird. He said it was weird.

My analysis was perfect. It was the best analysis ever.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 04, 2024, 09:25:06 AM
I am not the one who thinks Trump is somehow a viable alternative.

Pretty much all my arguments here have been that Biden needs to go if there’s any chance to beat Trump. (That seems to be the growing school of thought for most within the party at this point, but Alum74 calls it concern trolling when I say it)

You seem to think if we just double down on mocking Trump and his supporters and using gentle language to describe whatever it is Brandon has, that it’ll magically propel Brandon to victory.

Major donors, supporters, and political allies are calling for Biden to step aside. Are those people doing this because they think Trump is a viable alternative?

People are showing up outside the White House and campaign offices with signs begging him to relinquish his candidacy. His poll numbers are hot garbage. His “progressive aphasia” doesn’t sound like it’s going to get better the next 4.5 years.  It’s over man.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 04, 2024, 10:41:38 AM
All I am saying is there is a difference between Biden and Trump.

Biden probably should not be President because he seems to have an age related condition that impairs his ability to communicate.

Trump is a possible narcissist who says his  political opponents should be tried for treason before a military tribunal and  executed. I think he means what he says.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 04, 2024, 10:52:11 AM
Talked with a friend yesterday who voted for Obama, Hillary, and Biden. He is flipping to Trump because of immigration.

I pointed out the things Trump says he plans to do. Like using the military  to round up and deport millions of "illegals." Or charging political opponents with treason. Bringing back impoundment. Repealing birthright citizenship. Repealing the ACA. Making and repealing treaties without advice and consent. Acting as a unitary executive, ignoring congress and the courts
.

My friend says don't pay attention to what Trump says, he can't do any of that stuff.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on July 04, 2024, 05:24:13 PM
Well...If there's to be a switch, then it must be planned, crafted, and reasoned, and with full support of the party (or as full as it gets).

The first thing is for Biden to pull out.  Hopefully by Monday, but no later than Wednesday.  They'll strategize over the weekend no doubt. 

A few more days is less time on the clock, but far better than  a ham-handed announcement that reeks of desperation.

There has to be a strategy of preventing Harris from becoming the nominee.

Unless Michelle Obama wants to be the nominee it seems that Dems are f'd.  They can't alienate a key voting bloc, who got Biden the Dem nomination in 2020 and helped him defeat Trump, by bypassing Harris with a Newsom or Whitmer.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on July 04, 2024, 05:30:04 PM
I've seen a couple of polls with Michelle anywhere 8 to 12 points higher than Trump.

Obama and Harris should be the ticket...

Don't completely dump Harris, but go with the only person polling well ahead of Trump. 

Harris should defer to Barack Obama because he got Harris where she is.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: FaninCa on July 04, 2024, 05:34:45 PM
There would be no sweeter victory than a black woman, with the last name of Obama, who is also the wife of a 2-term black president, beating Trump who dreams of being in office forever...
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 12:16:01 AM
All I am saying is there is a difference between Biden and Trump.

Biden probably should not be President because he seems to have an age related condition that impairs his ability to communicate.

Trump is a possible narcissist who says his  political opponents should be tried for treason before a military tribunal and  executed. I think he means what he says.

Por que no los dos?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 12:17:05 AM
There has to be a strategy of preventing Harris from becoming the nominee.

Unless Michelle Obama wants to be the nominee it seems that Dems are f'd.  They can't alienate a key voting bloc, who got Biden the Dem nomination in 2020 and helped him defeat Trump, by bypassing Harris with a Newsom or Whitmer.

crack is a hell of a drug
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 12:20:32 AM
There has to be a strategy of preventing Harris from becoming the nominee.

Unless Michelle Obama wants to be the nominee it seems that Dems are f'd.  They can't alienate a key voting bloc, who got Biden the Dem nomination in 2020 and helped him defeat Trump, by bypassing Harris with a Newsom or Whitmer.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-caught-on-video-claiming-broken-down-joe-biden-has-quit-its-kamala

Somehow you think doing exactly what Trump knows will propel him to victory based on what Trump knows his voters want, is the answer.

Trump knows that if you put in Newsom, or Shapiro, or Whitmer, or Pritzker - that he loses. But he also knows that the DNC won't let that happen, and he thinks it's fucking hysterical.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 05, 2024, 12:30:07 AM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-caught-on-video-claiming-broken-down-joe-biden-has-quit-its-kamala

Somehow you think doing exactly what Trump knows will propel him to victory based on what Trump knows his voters want, is the answer.

Trump knows that if you put in Newsom, or Shapiro, or Whitmer, or Pritzker - that he loses. But he also knows that the DNC won't let that happen, and he thinks it's fucking hysterical.

Quote
Reached for comment on Wednesday evening, Trump campaign spokesperson Stephen Cheung directed The Daily Beast to a statement issued earlier in the day on the “total collapse” of the Democratic Party.

“Every Democrat who is calling on Crooked Joe Biden to quit was once a supporter of Biden and his failed policies that lead to extreme inflation, an open border, and chaos at home and abroad,” read the statement, attributed to campaign advisers Chris LaCivita and Susie Wiles.

“Make no mistake that Democrats, the mainstream media, and the swamp colluded to hide the truth from the American public—Joe Biden is weak, failed, dishonest, and not fit for the White House,” it continued. “Every one of them has lied about Joe Biden’s cognitive state and supported his disastrous policies over the past four years, especially Cackling Copilot Kamala Harris.”

This is amazing
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 12:50:27 AM
This is amazing

I think what the DNC doesn't get is that more than a few percent are going "if this is what it comes to, fuck it, burn it all down"

If they don't jettison Biden, or if they keep Harris, they lose by 15
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 05, 2024, 09:31:04 AM
Despite the rules for the debate, Trump accepted the invitation and the world saw what happened.

If it hadn't have been for Trump accepting the offer, the White House staff, Biden's advisors, the Biden administration and the national media would still be telling the American public that everything is hunky-dory, A-Ok and Biden is as sharp as a tack.

No DNC primaries were required.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 11:00:13 AM
Despite the rules for the debate, Trump accepted the invitation and the world saw what happened.

If it hadn't have been for Trump accepting the offer, the White House staff, Biden's advisors, the Biden administration and the national media would still be telling the American public that everything is hunky-dory, A-Ok and Biden is as sharp as a tack.

No DNC primaries were required.

Pretty bad strategic mistake by Donald. He needed to wait until October.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 05, 2024, 11:20:44 AM
Por que no los dos?

I thought that was clear.

Who is less unqualified?

People who would vote for Trump either agree with his bizarre beliefs and  positions, or they don't know what he is saying, or they think he is just kidding, or it doesn't matter, or something.

I can't imagine Biden on his worst days thinking they had airports in 1776. Or releasing fake medical records and bragging his tests were positive. Or boosting posts suggesting his political opponents are guilty of treason. Or altering weather maps to make it look like a hurricane could have hit Alabama.

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 05, 2024, 11:22:58 AM
No matter what Biden said; Trump said worse stuff. Trump looked lucid saying it. Any Republicans calling for Trump to step aside?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 01:10:27 PM
Who is less unqualified?

I reject this premise. I'm a goddamn American. That's not the bar.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 01:11:49 PM
No matter what Biden said; Trump said worse stuff. Trump looked lucid saying it. Any Republicans calling for Trump to step aside?

If Trump is such a goddamn loser, then this is an excellent opportunity to pick an optimal candidate on the Democratic side, since they will clearly win, and we don't have to settle for less.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 05, 2024, 01:41:04 PM
If Trump is such a goddamn loser, then this is an excellent opportunity to pick an optimal candidate on the Democratic side, since they will clearly win, and we don't have to settle for less.

America first, immigration, inflation. They don't care if Trump is a raving lunatic. I don't get it. I understand the uneducated lunatic fringe supporting him, but not the rest.

Taunting Democrats about Biden's apparent disability and Harris's flaws just further shows the extent of Republican moral depravity and utter hypocrisy.

Dems obviously have their own problems. I voted for them recently because most of the sane adults have been driven out of the Republican Party.

I hope they get it together.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 05, 2024, 03:01:11 PM
I reject this premise. I'm a goddamn American. That's not the bar.

Exactly.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 05, 2024, 03:01:40 PM
If Trump is such a goddamn loser, then this is an excellent opportunity to pick an optimal candidate on the Democratic side, since they will clearly win, and we don't have to settle for less.

Murph and I in lockstep on the issue of the Democratic nominee situation. Strange times indeed.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 05, 2024, 03:48:23 PM
Murph and I in lockstep on the issue of the Democratic nominee situation. Strange times indeed.

Saying both Biden and Harris should step aside is the easy part.  Let's see if Murph and you can agree on their replacements.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 05, 2024, 04:14:35 PM
I reject this premise. I'm a goddamn American. That's not the bar.

Americans have been voting for the lesser of two evils for much of my lifetime.

The two party system sucks, and third parties tend to select for crackpots.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 05, 2024, 04:55:36 PM
Americans have been voting for the lesser of two evils for much of my lifetime.

The two party system sucks, and third parties tend to select for crackpots.

It’s all about who has the most money. No 3rd party will win because they don’t have the backing.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 05, 2024, 07:02:19 PM
He’s staying in the race and gonna beat Trump again in 2020 😂 good luck Democrats trying to get him out…

https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1809315343212638406?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 07:20:04 PM
Murph and I in lockstep on the issue of the Democratic nominee situation. Strange times indeed.

About time you started recognizing my brilliance
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 05, 2024, 07:20:29 PM
Saying both Biden and Harris should step aside is the easy part.  Let's see if Murph and you can agree on their replacements.

A stale ham sandwich would do the trick
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 05, 2024, 07:38:21 PM
He’s staying in the race and gonna beat Trump again in 2020 😂 good luck Democrats trying to get him out…

https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1809315343212638406?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ


The Intelligence Community is gathering.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: alum74 on July 05, 2024, 07:50:13 PM
A stale ham sandwich would do the trick

Click your heels three times and just maybe your wish will come true. 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 05, 2024, 08:29:57 PM
Ummm… how ironic

https://x.com/dougamacgregor/status/1809375863823008254?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 05, 2024, 08:30:43 PM
Love this response 😂

https://x.com/pattyisright/status/1809376801858417038?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 05, 2024, 08:40:26 PM
He’s staying in the race and gonna beat Trump again in 2020 😂 good luck Democrats trying to get him out…

https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1809315343212638406?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

He corrected himself. Nice selective editing.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 05, 2024, 08:53:21 PM
Talked to another likely Trump voter today.

According to him, the day Biden took office, he shut down every oil pipeline in the country and that's why gas prices are so much higher.

This guy owns a successful business and denies he watches Fox
 
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Jrock74 on July 05, 2024, 10:46:29 PM
Shocking.  ::)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 06, 2024, 09:20:19 AM
See if you can spot the subtle difference.

https://x.com/i/status/1778096704509596110

https://x.com/i/status/1809350189481881807
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 06, 2024, 10:15:39 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pqvd14Yw/Screenshot-20240706-100326-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/8FD8SLyp)10 key test (https://keyboardtester.co/keyboard-tester)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tJZJJjkL/Screenshot-20240706-100725-3.png) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ssjv0V7x/Screenshot-20240706-100247-2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 06, 2024, 10:16:46 AM
See if you can spot the subtle difference.

https://x.com/i/status/1778096704509596110

https://x.com/i/status/1809350189481881807

Idiotic

Way back when a liberal posted video of Ron Paul getting up and leaving a table when a black man sat down next to him, like it proved something. Idiocy then, idiocy now.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 06, 2024, 12:02:06 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pqvd14Yw/Screenshot-20240706-100326-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/8FD8SLyp)10 key test (https://keyboardtester.co/keyboard-tester)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tJZJJjkL/Screenshot-20240706-100725-3.png) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ssjv0V7x/Screenshot-20240706-100247-2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Idiotic

Way back when a liberal posted video of Ron Paul getting up and leaving a table when a black man sat down next to him, like it proved something. Idiocy then, idiocy now.
You could have just said that you didn't spot any differences.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 06, 2024, 12:17:44 PM
You could have just said that you didn't spot any differences.

I saw the intended point, it just didn't prove anything.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 06, 2024, 01:13:43 PM
I saw the intended point, it just didn't prove anything.
So you did notice a difference in the 2 videos.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 06, 2024, 01:39:13 PM
So you did notice a difference in the 2 videos.

Did you notice the photos I posted? Those destroy any inference to be drawn from the difference.

That is some childish nonsense, no matter which side does it.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 06, 2024, 01:46:41 PM
Never really bought the whole “Trump is racist” card the Dems beat to death.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 06, 2024, 01:56:09 PM
Never really bought the whole “Trump is racist” card the Dems beat to death.

Biden opposed busing, but supported the Fair Housing Act and more recently, decentralized public housing.

Trump's violated the Fair Housing Act. Said they were forcing them to rent to people on welfare. They settled without admitting guilt. Trump also opposed decentralized public housing; said he was saving suburbs. Something like that.

Also, that full page ad
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 06, 2024, 02:13:53 PM
Never really bought the whole “Trump is racist” card the Dems beat to death.

It’s just the MSM making shit up. I would almost bet Trump might have one of the highest minority turnouts this election in history.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 06, 2024, 02:41:38 PM
So you did notice a difference in the 2 videos.

On what date did you stop beating your wife?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 06, 2024, 02:47:51 PM
The mainstream media is something the massive right wing conspiracy made up.

Fox News Channel, New York Post, Washington Times, Sinclair Broadcast Group, WSJ, National Review, X, Forbes, are pretty much mainstream
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 09, 2024, 05:56:28 PM
Good point, Peter!

https://x.com/papitrumpo/status/1810761795914616879?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 09, 2024, 06:51:05 PM
Good point, Peter!

https://x.com/papitrumpo/status/1810761795914616879?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ

He's a Dem plant. Republicans want Biden to stay in.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 09, 2024, 06:56:40 PM
Peter's dad is one of the relatively saner people on Fox.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 09, 2024, 07:22:27 PM
Peter's dad is one of the relatively saner people on Fox.

John Groce is one of the top 10 Illini Hoops coaches this decade
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 09, 2024, 08:11:49 PM
Again, both your responses don’t address the issue…
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 09, 2024, 08:42:52 PM
Has the RNC tested Trump for a Personality Disorder? Or did it come back positive and they thought that was a good thing?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 09, 2024, 09:40:15 PM
Has the RNC tested Trump for a Personality Disorder? Or did it come back positive and they thought that was a good thing?

Whataboutism and deflection…

Again, you’re not address the issue…
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 09, 2024, 10:01:09 PM
Whataboutism and deflection…

Again, you’re not address the issue…

You are avoiding the threat posed by Trump.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Judge Judy on July 10, 2024, 10:42:01 AM
You are avoiding the threat posed by Trump.

Oh boy…

The world ended last time he was President, didn’t it?! 😂
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 10, 2024, 10:46:11 AM
Oh boy…

The world ended last time he was President, didn’t it?! 😂

patience, patience
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 10, 2024, 11:05:15 AM
Oh boy…

The world ended last time he was President, didn’t it?! 😂

Be consistent. If Biden should be tested for dementia, Trump should be tested for a personality disorder.

If you blame Biden for pandemic related inflation; blame Trump the recession and high unemployment.

If you credit Trump with the low gas prices and clean air; credit Biden with the recovery and the new jobs.

If you really don't think Jan 6 was all that bad, stop trying to shift the blame to Pelosi.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 10, 2024, 11:32:04 AM
Trump evidently charged the Secret Service exorbitant rates at his hotels and golf resorts while they were on the clock protecting him.

That seems like a conflict of interest. There were endless Benghazi hearings. Why no hearings on Trump gouging the taxpayers?

His tax returns reportedly also put to bed the lie that he donated his salary.

Why wasn't this brought up at the master debate?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 10, 2024, 11:48:26 AM
https://x.com/robreiner/status/1811060772531040702?t=XjVdiTUhuB_d2-k6zchMIA&s=19
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 10, 2024, 11:54:27 AM
POTUS may not need pictures on some days on how to tie his shoes and his family, staffers, the administration and media have watched his decline while telling everyone that everything is hunky dory A-ok.

Who has been making the decisions the past 3 1/2 years ?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 10, 2024, 12:28:14 PM
Anyone that supports the narcissist / serial liar doesn't have much room to complain about Biden.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on July 10, 2024, 01:04:42 PM
Anyone that supports the narcissist / serial liar doesn't have much room to complain about Biden.
Would it be ok, in your opinion, to complain about Biden's family, staffers, administration and the media lying to the public for the past 3 1/2 years about who has been, and is, making decisions in the Oval office ?
Or is that off limits too ?

The people who won't tell us who has been, and is, making Oval office decisions are the same people who tell us that Trump is a threat to democracy.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 10, 2024, 01:05:53 PM
POTUS may not need pictures on some days on how to tie his shoes and his family, staffers, the administration and media have watched his decline while telling everyone that everything is hunky dory A-ok.

Who has been making the decisions the past 3 1/2 years ?

Trump. All the MAGAs at the rally told me he's the real president
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 10, 2024, 01:07:48 PM
Would it be ok, in your opinion, to complain about Biden's family, staffers, administration and the media lying to the public for the past 3 1/2 years about who has been, and is, making decisions in the Oval office ?
Or is that off limits too ?

The people who won't tell us who has been, and is, making Oval office decisions are the same people who tell us that Trump is a threat to democracy.

You are sort of new here. The Cabinet, Chief of Staff, etc... make a lot of the decisions in any administration, even Trump's. Trump did decide we need to drink bleach and that NOAA was wrong and the hurricane was gonna hit Alabama
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 10, 2024, 01:50:20 PM
Why can’t anyone discuss Biden’s obvious issues without making it about Trump?
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 10, 2024, 01:50:44 PM
Would it be ok, in your opinion, to complain about Biden's family, staffers, administration and the media lying to the public for the past 3 1/2 years about who has been, and is, making decisions in the Oval office ?
Or is that off limits too ?

The people who won't tell us who has been, and is, making Oval office decisions are the same people who tell us that Trump is a threat to democracy.

Obama, obviously.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 10, 2024, 02:17:26 PM
The deep state
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: ThePAMan on July 14, 2024, 08:52:06 AM
Why can’t anyone discuss Biden’s obvious issues without making it about Trump?

One should understand this by now.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 18, 2024, 09:21:44 AM
Here is what Biden tried to say about tariffs:

"Tariffs remain an important and targeted tool, of course, to protect against unfair trade practices. But, as we show in this issue brief, to use them as a revenue source that would significantly or even wholly replace the income tax would increase inflation and invite deep economic distortions that benefit the wealthy and harm low- and middle-income Americans"

More: https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2024/07/12/tariffs-as-a-major-revenue-source-implications-for-distribution-and-growth/#:~:text=Existing%20imports%20duties%20on%20goods,raised%20via%20social%20insurance%20(payroll)
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 18, 2024, 10:46:32 AM
Here is what Biden tried to say about tariffs:

"Tariffs remain an important and targeted tool, of course, to protect against unfair trade practices. But, as we show in this issue brief, to use them as a revenue source that would significantly or even wholly replace the income tax would increase inflation and invite deep economic distortions that benefit the wealthy and harm low- and middle-income Americans"

More: https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2024/07/12/tariffs-as-a-major-revenue-source-implications-for-distribution-and-growth/#:~:text=Existing%20imports%20duties%20on%20goods,raised%20via%20social%20insurance%20(payroll)

It's even worse than just going to a sales tax
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 18, 2024, 12:08:49 PM
It's even worse than just going to a sales tax

Sadly, Biden was too mentally disabled to articulate that.

I don't think that defeating Trump in a debate is all that easy though. He intimidates opponents -- makes faces, interrupts, tells too many lies.

Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 18, 2024, 02:01:00 PM
Anyone halfway competent shouldn’t have a problem dispatching him in the format we saw last month. His opponent can’t see him making faces and interruptions were kept to a minimum. Let Trump lie all he wants, it makes him look bad and is ammo for a capable debater.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 18, 2024, 04:08:29 PM
Sadly, Biden was too mentally disabled to articulate that.

I don't think that defeating Trump in a debate is all that easy though. He intimidates opponents -- makes faces, interrupts, tells too many lies.

If the Democrats were true Ninjas - they would announce that Biden is withdrawing from the race AS TRUMP IS WALKING TO THE MICROPHONE for his speech.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 18, 2024, 11:05:02 PM
Looks like Harris and Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ), KY Gov. Andy Beshear or NC Gov. Roy Cooper
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 18, 2024, 11:26:59 PM
Hmmm
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: murphstahoe on July 19, 2024, 08:35:24 AM
Looks like Harris and Sen. Mark Kelly (D-AZ), KY Gov. Andy Beshear or NC Gov. Roy Cooper

None of those names could be the VP choice. Kentucky would definitely replace with a Republican, North Carolina potentially, and the Democrats would definitely not throw a swing senate seat into play.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: illiniray on July 21, 2024, 01:28:44 PM
Biden drops out, endorses Harris.
Title: Re: The “Debate” 6/27/2024
Post by: Custard on July 21, 2024, 10:07:36 PM
You knew he would to keep those folks happy until they release the actual info