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General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: Reacher on March 22, 2024, 03:14:48 PM
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Just thought this would make for some interesting discussion. This is team with Final Four/National title potential, but I’d have a hard time putting this team in the top 6 Illini teams in my lifetime. Also interested in where people think Shannon ranks among Illini greats. AA is rare air here. Will also be interesting to see if any opinions change in the next week to three weeks. Lol
Teams for sure better IMO: 84, 89, 01, 04, 05, 21. Comparable years. 90, 02, 03.
Thoughts?
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Season ain't over yet I'll let ya know either tomorrow night or in a few weeks
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I think if we don’t have the TSJ debacle mucking up the whole middle part of the season it’s a different story too. Probably have at least 2-3 fewer losses, challenge a dominant Purdue team for B1G reg season title, and finish a high 2 seed or possibly even a 1, all which changes this conversation. The tourney run about to unfold matters too.
I think 89, 01, and 05 are better for sure.
I like the more modern makeup of this team better than the 21 team and it’s easy to forget that squad had a real rough patch in the middle of the season that this team never really did. And they flamed early. Obviously this team could still do that and the lack of a true PG hurts.
I’d probably say they are in the ballpark of the 06, 04, 02 teams. Better than the 03 team that lost to ND in second round.
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Season ain't over yet I'll let ya know either tomorrow night or in a few weeks
I want your opinion now. And again in a few weeks. Lol
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I want your opinion now. And again in a few weeks. Lol
Will lose to Duquesne and be up there with the indignity that was the 86/87 team
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1984-1989-2005 are better as of now, the future will tell the final ranking imo.
No other team of my era ranks any higher really. I don't back to the glory days of the 40's-50's. I hope this team can eclipse them all or at least match the 89-05 teams.
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With 2001-2002 team
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Recency bias is a thing, but I would say only our 1989 and 2005 teams are clearly better.
That could change in a couple weeks.
LOL
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Yeah, they played Duquense and Moorehead State. We may want to slow the roll a little until next weekend.
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Yeah, they played Duquense and Moorehead State. We may want to slow the roll a little until next weekend.
Excuse me, but I'm enjoying this Sweet 16 stuff. You do whatever the fukk you want. ;D
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For my adult lifetime, I would put this team in spot 4 behind the 00-02 group, the 03-05 group, and the Ayo/Kofi teams.
This team might be the most fun to watch other than 04-05.
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For my adult lifetime, I would put this team in spot 4 behind the 00-02 group, the 03-05 group, and the Ayo/Kofi teams.
This team might be the most fun to watch other than 04-05.
I would agree with this and then insert the '84 and '89 teams so 6th place for now in last 40 years
If we win our S16 game, then they surpass the Ayo/Kofi team for 5th.
If we beat UConn and go to FF then they are in the top 3 with '89 and '04-05 team.
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I would agree with this and then insert the '84 and '89 teams so 6th place for now in last 40 years
If we win our S16 game, then they surpass the Ayo/Kofi team for 5th.
If we beat UConn and go to FF then they are in the top 3 with '89 and '04-05 team.
Nothing in there I would disagree with.
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For my adult lifetime, I would put this team in spot 4 behind the 00-02 group, the 03-05 group, and the Ayo/Kofi teams.
This team might be the most fun to watch other than 04-05.
Hot take - this team is more fun to watch than the 04-05 team
#1 kenpom ranked offense
We have been torching the nets and have a mini LeBron who sorry to say is a much better one man fast break than dee ever was.
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Hot take - this team is more fun to watch than the 04-05 team
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
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TSJ has had the best one season ever in Illinois basketball history.
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I’ll take the team that started out 29-0 an systematically dismantled almost every opponent they played. And utterly destroyed the “#1 ranked” team led by Chris Paul. Watching them destroy Wake Forest and Gonzaga was as good as Illinois basketball ever got. Not to mention the most exhilarating 4:02 of sport I’ve ever witnessed in the Elite 8.
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Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
yes how can i not love some bruce weber barn burners like the b1g tournament championship game in 2005 where we won 54-43 and the team averaged a whopping 62 points per game during their 3 game run
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yes how can i not love some bruce weber barn burners like the b1g tournament championship game in 2005 where we won 54-43 and the team averaged a whopping 62 points per game during their 3 game run
16 straight weeks at #1. Three All-Americans. It’s never been better than that here.
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I would agree with this and then insert the '84 and '89 teams so 6th place for now in last 40 years
If we win our S16 game, then they surpass the Ayo/Kofi team for 5th.
If we beat UConn and go to FF then they are in the top 3 with '89 and '04-05 team.
Well said. I completely agree.
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16 straight weeks at #1. Three All-Americans. It’s never been better than that here.
I said more fun to watch, not who the better team was
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TSJ has had the best one season ever in Illinois basketball history.
There was too much to share on the two final four teams.
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I said more fun to watch, not who the better team was
Anyone who says this is more fun to watch than Kenny Battle is high
I had to think about that a bit - because I was 21 and on campus when Battle was doing his shiznit so it's meaningful to factor in that I'm not in a 40 person dogpile when we beat Syracuse and I'm half watching games now while cooking and helping my kid with his calculus.
But he was freaking amazing, then you throw in the Anderson shot at Indiana....
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I said more fun to watch, not who the better team was
I pretty well enjoyed watching a team with 3 All-Americans dominate nearly every team they played. 🤷🏻♂️
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Anyone who says this is more fun to watch than Kenny Battle is high
I had to think about that a bit - because I was 21 and on campus when Battle was doing his shiznit so it's meaningful to factor in that I'm not in a 40 person dogpile when we beat Syracuse and I'm half watching games now while cooking and helping my kid with his calculus.
But he was freaking amazing, then you throw in the Anderson shot at Indiana....
Yeah, it’s ‘89 and ‘05 and then the rest.
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Do you motherfuckers even read
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TSJ is a hybrid (style of play) between Giannis (just bulldozes into the lane and damn near unstoppable) and LeBron (athleticism and dominance) at the college level. I think his game would translate well to the NBA.
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Watching the ‘89 team when they were on was as good as it’s ever been. For any college team.
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I agree the 89 team was more fun to watch
Not the 05 team though
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04-05 was 3rd in KP offensive efficiency. 20th in PPG, 3rd in Assists per game, and 4th in TO per game against a better schedule.
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04-05 was 3rd in KP offensive efficiency. 20th in PPG, 3rd in Assists per game, and 4th in TO per game against a better schedule.
Well we're #1 in kenpom efficiency
Our defense is clearly not as good.
Much different eras and types of play. Bruce Weber old school motion vs whatever you call our nba style offense now.
And there is no contest which team is better so far, I just enjoy watching this team more than the 05 squad, losses be damned.
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TSJ is a hybrid (style of play) between Giannis (just bulldozes into the lane and damn near unstoppable) and LeBron (athleticism and dominance) at the college level. I think his game would translate well to the NBA.
Deron Williams, Luther Head, Nick Anderson, and Kendall Gill however, would be lucky to get a handful of 10 day contracts
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I agree the 89 team was more fun to watch
Not the 05 team though
I guess you missed the 05 team playing Wake. Hint: it looked very similar to this year's team playing Duquesne. Hint: Wake was not an 11 seed.
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And there is no contest which team is better so far, I just enjoy watching this team more than the 05 squad, losses be damned.
To each their own, but Deron was a clinician, Brown a magician, and Luther an assassin.
Augie vs Colhawk? I can't really recall one instance where I thought Augie just gets way out over his skates and does some dumbass shit way too often. I mean I said that about Nick Smith whenever he got on the floor (actually I said WTF Weber, why is he in there), sure.
I mean, Jack Ingram was the 6th man on that team. Who's this team's? Goode?
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I mean, Jack Ingram was the 6th man on that team. Who's this team's? Goode?
As of now, Dain Dainja
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As of now, Dain Dainja
Truth - studly. But without the 3 point skill :)
- underscoring my bias from watching every minute of 89/05 and being a lot more occasional this year.
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Augie ran the court like a guard, was very good at the slip screen, rebounded at both ends, great at hedge trapping the high ball screen
Hawkins is head case, point forward / stretch 4, can guard all 5 positions, blocks shots, forces turnovers, rebounds.
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OK , we made the Elite Eight. If my memory serves, since I started school in '86, that's only been done 3 times, 89, 01, 05 - all #1 seeds. Throw in our other #1 seed with Ayo and Kofi. No other team really needs a deep look since it's not like we overachieved our seed, ever.
Top 2 players
Nick Anderson + Gill
Frank Williams + Cook
Deron + Dee
Ayo + Kofi
TSJ + Domask
89 was a deep team - #2 might as well be Battle, Bardo was a great player, Lowell was servicable, Liberty off the bench and Ervin for depth
01 had Bradford, Arch, Krupalija, Lucas - also deep
05 Luther is really better than Dee except in context. Augie was great, Powell very solid
20 - Grandison, Damonte, Giorgi - wildly Hawkins was on that roster. Wow
89/05 were deepest, then 01. The 2020 team less so.
I look at this team, and first think "after TSJ and Domask.... then what?" because first I always undervalue Hawkins because I'm biased against random headcase moments but he's super solid. After that it feels like it gets sort of thin. A lot of useful players but nothing that makes the lists of the above teams. I mean, I'd trade Luke Goode for Sean Harrington.
The difference is - as Judge Judy points out - Terrance Shannon Junior is just unreal. I really started to have some dread last night and that dude just stole the ball and slammed the door shut.
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Terrence Shannon Jr. has had the best single season in the history of Illini basketball. Period.
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Terrence Shannon Jr. has had the best single season in the history of Illini basketball. Period.
He has taken it up to an entirely different level on both sides of the ball over the course of this year.
Is a dominant player.
I think he gives a a decent shot at knocking off UConn.
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Terrence Shannon Jr. has had the best single season in the history of Illini basketball. Period.
Fun to watch, that's for sure
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Terrence Shannon Jr. has had the best single season in the history of Illini basketball. Period.
Part of that I’d argue is because he’s had to. Pretty much all of our more talented teams had better top end players 1-3. Not that Shannon, Domask, Coleman aren’t quite good.
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Part of that I’d argue is because he’s had to. Pretty much all of our more talented teams had better top end players 1-3. Not that Shannon, Domask, Coleman aren’t quite good.
Screw you and your concern trolling. Steph Curry got MVPs and he had Draymond and Klay and Durant. Didn't mean he wasn't flat out awesome. TSJ is a man among boys. It's just ridiculous. Driving the lane and making any shot he needs and drawing fouls. Crazy ass steals where he's down the court in zero time. And he's a dagger from 3.
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Screw you and your concern trolling. Steph Curry got MVPs and he had Draymond and Klay and Durant. Didn't mean he wasn't flat out awesome. TSJ is a man among boys. It's just ridiculous. Driving the lane and making any shot he needs and drawing fouls. Crazy ass steals where he's down the court in zero time. And he's a dagger from 3.
Hey this is becoming a habit! Good post.
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Screw you and your concern trolling. Steph Curry got MVPs and he had Draymond and Klay and Durant. Didn't mean he wasn't flat out awesome. TSJ is a man among boys. It's just ridiculous. Driving the lane and making any shot he needs and drawing fouls. Crazy ass steals where he's down the court in zero time. And he's a dagger from 3.
Sure, but I’m not sure he’s not doing anything Nick Anderson or Deron Williams couldn’t do. Their stats weren’t inflated because they didn’t need to be. TSJ is an outstanding player, and certainly having one of the best seasons in Illini history.
The truth is, this team needs TSJ to produce at a higher level because the talent is not as good/deep as our better teams.
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We’ve had teams with 4-5 NBA players on it. I’d be surprised if anyone on this team besides Shannon sticks in the NBA for any length of time.
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Shannon is a great player. “Best in Illini history” is probably a stretch IMO.
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Shannon is a great player. “Best in Illini history” is probably a stretch IMO.
My bad, my memory failed me here and I used the wrong context. I still think Shannon’s production is a byproduct of the necessity that he produce (because the talent behind him is good, but not exceptional).
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Sure, but I’m not sure he’s not doing anything Nick Anderson or Deron Williams couldn’t do. Their stats weren’t inflated because they didn’t need to be. TSJ is an outstanding player, and certainly having one of the best seasons in Illini history.
The truth is, this team needs TSJ to produce at a higher level because the talent is not as good/deep as our better teams.
You're making my argument for me. Teams couldn't just ball down on Nick or Deron because they had to deal with Gill, Battle, Brown, and Head. TSJ can slice through a double, get fouled, and the basket.
Nick Anderson was a 60% free throw shooter. Both TSJ and Nick were 36% from three - but he shot 1.7 per game. TSJ shoots 6.8 per game. He's getting the same percentage over more shots, and because he's taking more shots, more of them are contested, but he's getting the same percentage. That's huge. Could Nick have shot more threes per game at the same percentage, but wasn't because that was Gill's job? Maybe. Really, he mostly took wide open ones (barring the winner vs. Indiana, of course).
Deron was a sharpshooter, and an assist machine. If I had one pick, I'm taking Deron over Nick. But TSJ is breaking guys ankles and he is just flat out a LOT faster than either of those two guys. If he steals the ball, it's over - there's no chance some dude is going to track it down and block his dunk. Terrance has longer arms and can really create space for his arms to get the ball up and in while drawing a lot of fouls. Nick more so just ran dudes over because he was so strong, but he didn't have the speed to just weave through three guys from the top of the key.
And if I say someone is better than Nick or Deron, that's saying a hell of a lot because those two guys were monsters.
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Different eras. But Nick was an unbelievable athlete. Would be interesting to see how he’d adjust to today’s game. Had a pretty nice NBA career (in the Magic HOF). Deron obviously was not as explosive as Shannon, but could dominate a game in just about any fashion he wanted.
Shannon is having perhaps as good a year statistically that I can think of in an Illini uniform, but he’s also being asked to carry a heavier load than some of our other great players.
Shannon is not averaging 23 ppg on the 89 or 05 teams.
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Domask would be like the 7th man on those teams.
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None of that matters. TSJ is doing something (whether asked to or not) that nobody in Illini men’s basketball history has ever done. Statistically and dominantly. He is the alpha of them all. I’m not talking about pro careers, potential, etc… I’m strictly talking one season of complete domination.
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I saw Deron, Dee, Nick, Kendall, Kenny, etc… and I’m saying he’s had the most dominant season ever by an Illini. It just is. The argument you’re making is silly.
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None of that matters. TSJ is doing something (whether asked to or not) that nobody in Illini men’s basketball history has ever done. Statistically and dominantly. He is the alpha of them all. I’m not talking about pro careers, potential, etc… I’m strictly talking one season of complete domination.
It was only a couple of seasons ago Kofi averaged 21 and 10+ and was runner up for CPOY IIRC. But yeah, you may be right. Shannon’s single season performance could be #1 here. It’s certainly in the team photo.
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I saw Deron, Dee, Nick, Kendall, Kenny, etc… and I’m saying he’s had the most dominant season ever by an Illini. It just is. The argument you’re making is silly.
I’d argue Deron. But if you want to talk pure statistics, maybe so. Deron was the key to 37-2.
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I’d argue Deron. But if you want to talk pure statistics, maybe so. Deron was the key to 37-2.
Augie was the key to 38-1
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Augie was the key to 38-1
True, but it was Sean May’s birthday.
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Domask would be like the 7th man on those teams.
Domask would be the leading scorer on the 05 team if you took this year's stats
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Domask would be the leading scorer on the 05 team if you took this year's stats
Lulz
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Not only is that really funny, but it’s wrong (barely). Luther averaged 15.9 PPG Domask’s is 15.8. But I am taking Luther 10x out of 10 if given a chance. And Luther was arguably our 3rd best player on that team (but more probably 2nd).
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Not only is that really funny, but it’s wrong (barely). Luther averaged 15.9 PPG Domask’s is 15.8. But I am taking Luther 10x out of 10 if given a chance. And Luther was arguably our 3rd best player on that team (but more probably 2nd).
My bad I thought domask was averaging 16.1 just went from memory
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Domask would be the leading scorer on the 05 team if you took this year's stats
I really like Domask as a college player, but...
His 3 pt percentage would be 8th and his field goal percentage would be 7th on that team. Domask's a/t ratio is 1.74. All 3 of the starting guards on that team were north of 2. Roger Powell's was bad but he out-shot Domask and easily outrebounded him.
In other words, he'd be a bench player on that team. The FT and rebounding would put him on the floor at the end of close games with a lead but otherwise you'd be nuts to play him more than 15 mpg.
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I really like Domask as a college player, but...
His 3 pt percentage would be 8th and his field goal percentage would be 7th on that team. Domask's a/t ratio is 1.74. All 3 of the starting guards on that team were north of 2. Roger Powell's was bad but he out-shot Domask and easily outrebounded him.
In other words, he'd be a bench player on that team. The FT and rebounding would put him on the floor at the end of close games with a lead but otherwise you'd be nuts to play him more than 15 mpg.
Booty ball has no place on that team
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He’d have been a fine/much loved reserve.
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Augie was the key to 38-1
If Brian Randle doesn’t punch a padded wall in practice, I wonder if his length and athleticism might have been enough to slow Sean May down just a wee bit.
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Or…if UNC doesn’t use ineligible players.
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Or…if UNC doesn’t use ineligible players.
Not really a hill we should die on
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Not really a hill we should die on
Who is ineligible?
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If Brian Randle doesn’t punch a padded wall in practice, I wonder if his length and athleticism might have been enough to slow Sean May down just a wee bit.
May would have still gotten away with "butting" to make room to open up space to shoot/move to the hoop. Those pussy refs gave him freedom to whatever he wanted on offense that night.
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89
05
01
84
24
21
Nice season and all credit to staff and team for working hard to keep improving all year.
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89
05
01
84
24
21
Nice season and all credit to staff and team for working hard to keep improving all year.
No real argument here.
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05 has to be 1st and there’s no reasonable argument otherwise.
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89
05
01
84
24
21
Nice season and all credit to staff and team for working hard to keep improving all year.
Good list but 01 would beat 05.
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05 has to be 1st and there’s no reasonable argument otherwise.
It’s pretty close IMO. 89 also “struggled” for a bit when Kendall was out with his foot injury.
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05 has to be 1st and there’s no reasonable argument otherwise.
I can reasonably argue that the 89 team is what really got most fans over the top maniacally into ILLINI basketball. The 2005 team was a awesome ride and should have won it all, but the 89 team is where the flying illini came from, the make up of teams even to this day, the culture of truly ILLINI basketball. The PRO players that came from this team, the Chicago hype train of players coming down state....the 89 team just overall meant so much more to ILLINI basketball to this day than any other team.
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Surely which team you pick has an awful lot to do with how old you are.
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I completely respect everything about the 89 team and what they did and meant to school legacy and whatnot. And maybe head to head they pummel the 05 team. But 2005 was just dominant compared to their peers, and, as the Sleepers guys said the other day, the best Big Ten team of this century. Purdue this year could change that, but they’ll still finish with at least two more losses than 05 Illinois.
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I completely respect everything about the 89 team and what they did and meant to school legacy and whatnot. And maybe head to head they pummel the 05 team. But 2005 was just dominant compared to their peers, and, as the Sleepers guys said the other day, the best Big Ten team of this century. Purdue this year could change that, but they’ll still finish with at least two more losses than 05 Illinois.
Nicely said. The 89 team gave us a chance and some hope. The 05 team was fully expected to seal the deal. Head to head? That would be a great game!
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89 vs 05 would be an unbelievable matchup.