IlliniHQ 2
General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: ILLove1997 on December 01, 2023, 12:21:28 PM
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Should be an interesting road game for us, we haven't really been tested yet on the road
not like Rutgers is any good but they always seem to have our number in joisey
need to keep the turnovers down, apparently rutgers is 12th in the nation in turnovers forced
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KenPom has us as a 1 point favorite.
Torvik has us as a 1.9 point dog.
I think as first game away from home all year, it will be a tough one and is a tossup.
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KenPom has us as a 1 point favorite.
Torvik has us as a 1.9 point dog.
I think as first game away from home all year, it will be a tough one and is a tossup.
https://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/matchups/illinois-vs-rutgers/
interesting...
I wouldn't have us open at 2.5 point favorites and then growing to 5.5
then again I'm a terrible sports better so this is a good sign
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I never bet, but I think Vegas uses a different approach in setting odds as to maximize betting vs the metric based analyst services.
A -5.5 for Illinois seems really high as Rutgers has a pretty high 3.8 point home court advantage bump in their games. (Ours is pretty middling at 3.1).
Are we 9 points better than Rutgers on a neutral court?? It depends on who shows up for us.
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I'm torn. Ga-Bama starts at 3 also.
I'll probably record hoops. I did get a chuckle out of "need to keep the turnovers down." And we've lost the last 3 at Piscataway.
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I'm torn. Ga-Bama starts at 3 also.
I'll probably record hoops. I did get a chuckle out of "need to keep the turnovers down." And we've lost the last 3 at Piscataway.
Mn, you need a 2 TV hookup at a minimum. Tell Mrs. Mn you are taking her TV and she will have to miss Hallmark Christmas movies for the afternoon.
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Mn, you need a 2 TV hookup at a minimum. Tell Mrs. Mn you are taking her TV and she will have to miss Hallmark Christmas movies for the afternoon.
Make it like the good old days ? 4 tvs, and none with remotes, for New Year's Day bowl games with a batch of chili on the stove.
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Make it like the good old days ? 4 tvs, and none with remotes, for New Year's Day bowl games with a batch of chili on the stove.
There you go.
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Make it like the good old days ? 4 tvs, and none with remotes, for New Year's Day bowl games with a batch of chili on the stove.
That actually sounds amazing
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That actually sounds amazing
Always a great day. We were all single then and by the 4th qtr of the Orange Bowl nobody could see straight.
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Always a great day. We were all single then and by the 4th qtr of the Orange Bowl nobody could see straight.
Yep. I remember growing up, it was always my job to go change the channel, or turn the volume up or down when my dad told me to. And I loved every second of it.
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Yep. I remember growing up, it was always my job to go change the channel, or turn the volume up or down when my dad told me to. And I loved every second of it.
👍
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Yep. I remember growing up, it was always my job to go change the channel, or turn the volume up or down when my dad told me to. And I loved every second of it.
Mine as well, didn't love it, but did love sneaking down from afternoon "nap" after tussling my hair and rubbing my eyes in order to watch the old wrestling with the Sheik, Dusty Rhodes, Andre the Giant, Jerry Lawler, Harley Race and many others....didn't mine manning the tube then.
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Mine as well, didn't love it, but did love sneaking down from afternoon "nap" after tussling my hair and rubbing my eyes in order to watch the old wrestling with the Sheik, Dusty Rhodes, Andre the Giant, Jerry Lawler, Harley Race and many others....didn't mine manning the tube then.
Crusher, Dick the Bruiser, Yukon Moose Cholak, Vern Gagne ("King of the Sleeper Hold"), Wilbur Snyder (the "World's Most Scientific Wrestler"), Mad Dog Vachon, Pretty Boy "Bobby" Heenan, Mitsu Arakawa and Baron von Raschke, with promoter Bob Luce and sponsor Ben's Auto Sales.
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Andy Kaufman
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The Bluebonnet Bowl 😂
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Vern Gagne had brain injuries and dementia and killed a guy in the nursing home.
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Vern Gagne had brain injuries and dementia and killed a guy in the nursing home.
Wow! Hopefully it was Ernie Ladd he killed. He was always a heel.
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Wow! Hopefully it was Ernie Ladd he killed. He was always a heel.
LOL. No, some 95 year old guy he body slammed.
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Starting the game off with..a turnover. Sounds like us.
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Quincy posterized the fuck out of Omiwhateverthefuckhisnameis.
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Guerrier stepping up big!
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Guerrier stepping up big!
Knows how to move without the ball too.
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Anybody else’s video messing up? Wondering if it’s the BTN video skipping/glitchy.
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That’s a travel, no foul there
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Anybody else’s video messing up? Wondering if it’s the BTN video skipping/glitchy.
Yep.
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That elbow called on Danja wouldn’t have been called if his name was Edey…
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We shouldn’t have this many problems against a press.
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I'm done with the Rodgers PG experiment. Three turnovers vs the press.
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Rodgers needs to come out
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Get DGL in please…
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Wow what a pass and finish by TSJ and Dainja!
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We shouldn’t have this many problems against a press.
Good thing our defense is locking them down so they haven't been able to set it up too much.
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Dainja is active today.
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Best start of the year for us.
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Our dumbass play is keeping Rutgers afloat.
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Our dumbass play is keeping Rutgers afloat.
Yeah we should be up much more…
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Fucking 6 point game now.
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Dainja got fouled and no call and led to a 3 on the other end. Big swing
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They are heating up now finally.
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Yeah we should be up much more…
9 turnovers and 10 fouls. Make that 10 and 10
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TOs starting to kill us
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We've got to play d and beat them down the floor. We can't beat the press or play a half court offense
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We've got to play d and beat them down the floor. We can't beat the press or play a half court offense
Everybody taking notes in BT
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Rodgers can't shoot for fuck
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Terrence fucking Horsecockington
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TSJ is a sniper…
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Badly needed three from TSJ.
Rodgers is doing nothing right this game.
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Hey I’ll take the lead on the road, but man, what could’ve been and should be. We fucking let them right back into this game.
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Judging by the score, we had a solid first half?
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Judging by the score, we had a solid first half?
It’s complicated lol. We had a good 1st half of the 1st half…
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Rutgers shooting 35% with 4-8 from 3, and 15 points off our 10 turnovers.
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Our “PG” can’t pass…
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Our “PG” can’t pass…
Is that a problem?
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Hawkins doesn’t even look at the shot there and wide open. Throws it to a guy who’s covered.
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Hawkins doesn’t even look at the shot there and wide open. Throws it to a guy who’s covered.
He did come up a foot short on a 3 footer
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Is that a problem?
Yeah. He can rebound like a motherfucker though.
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We pass up open shots and then turn it over. Rodgers had a wide open put back and passed it back out for some reason.
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And I will say that these refs can suck Jobu's cock.
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Domask playing like we had hoped
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Domask playing like we had hoped
Aggressive Domask is exactly who we need to show up.
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I don’t think the team likes Harmon too much…
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Yes I love aggressive Domask!
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Terrance fucking Horsecockington
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Need a trigger happy Goode as well.
20 point lead! LFG!
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Terrance fucking Horsecockington
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Ngl pretty erect rn
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We play like this all year, we might not lose another game…
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Terrance fucking Horsecockington
He is HIM.
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Our defense is elite
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His new name is TFSJ
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We are pretty good when Domask and Guerrier play up to their potential.
TFSJ is just a grown man
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Hawkins is not good at basketball
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Hawkins is not good at basketball
Curious what his +- is this game, seems somehow like we play a lot better with him in than out today at least
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Our guys can GUARD.
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Domask pointed at the spot on the floor for Harmon to go to, TSJ gets the ball and goes around the Harmon screen to the bucket. Domask seems to play with IQ
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Hawkins is not good at basketball
He's done ok on the defensive board
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TFSj with the double double, 22 and 10
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TFSj with the double double, 22 and 10
Total game changer today, one of his best performances for us
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Noice win. But all I care about is how we did from the line.
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Thought we had a chance to win, didn't expect to kill them the way we did.
There's a long way to go but Shannon looks like a potential All American.
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Noice win. But all I care about is how we did from the line.
7 of 11.
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Very impressive win even with playing dumb at times. Our defense is elite.
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Hawkins is not good at basketball
Hawkins was dominant on defense, and a big help in breaking the press in the second half.
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Once we stopped fumbling the ball around the court, we kicked their asses and wore them down in the 2nd half. Impressive to dominate them on their court in the manner which we did.
Awesome way to kick off this crucial stretch of the schedule for us. 1-0 in conference play is very nice.
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Really nice win today. Very surprised.
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Curious as to why DGL didn't log a single minute today.
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Curious as to why DGL didn't log a single minute today.
Same. In a game like this you get him minutes and experience. Missed opportunity.
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Saw we blew them out and I get on here and you’d think we got beat by 20.
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Saw we blew them out and I get on here and you’d think we got beat by 20.
It's funny because it's true
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If we didn't suck, probably would have won by 50.
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Hawkins was dominant on defense, and a big help in breaking the press in the second half.
I wouldn't say dominant, but you are right he had one of his better games on ball D today.
It is hard to assess our D in some ways. That is a struggling offensive team that Rutgers has right now. 177th in country.
The next two games will show what we really have on D vs teams that can score.
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Why are we wearing the garbage 1LL1NO1S unis so much this year? They needed to go away years ago.
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7 of 11.
Did they get a Big Gulp to go?
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I wouldn't say dominant, but you are right he had one of his better games on ball D today.
It is hard to assess our D in some ways. That is a struggling offensive team that Rutgers has right now. 177th in country.
The next two games will show what we really have on D vs teams that can score.
Guess I’m not sure what else to call it. You saw at the end of the first half what happened to our D when he had to sit with foul trouble.
He completely wrecked their gameplan in the half court. Not sure how you’d calculate this without doing it manually but surely their offensive numbers with Hawkins on the court yesterday were absolutely horrible.
I was surprised to see anyone who watched the game say what you said (well, kinda - narratives around illini basketball often don’t seem beholden to any sort of quantifiable reality), because our team was far far better yesterday with Hawkins on the court than off it.
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I enjoyed watching that game. Was that BU's spread offense / position-less basketball?
17 turnovers, only 5 in the 2nd half?
The lineup of Hawkins, Guerrier, Domask, Shannon, and Rodgers with Goode off the bench allows them to switch all 5 positions on defense effectively. They tried that last season, but scrapped it.
I didn't notice, are they still using drop coverage to defend to pick and roll with Dainja? He does look quicker, faster, more active. Only played 8 minutes.
Hansberry got some minutes. He is still figuring it out.
Harmon played a lot and was solid on offense. I didn't really notice him on defense.
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Decided to take a look at it.
FIRST HALF:
- Hawkins played the first half until Rutgers called a timeout with 14:49 left. At that point it was 14-2 and Rutgers was 0/6 from the floor with 4 TO. We fouled them 3 times resulting in two FT attempts.
- He sat until the 13:44 mark. In that 1:05, Rutgers was 0/1 from the floor with 1 TO. Pretty solid to this point with or without him. We fouled them 2 times (both by Dainja, who came in for him) leading to 0 FT attempts.
- At the 12:42 mark, he got his second foul and sat for the rest of the half. In the minute he played here, Rutgers was 1/2 from the field. We fouled them once, leading to 2 FT attempts.
- In the 6 minutes, 13 seconds of the first half with Hawkins on the floor, Rutgers was 1/8 (12.5%) from the floor with 4 TO and scored 4 points. We fouled them 4 times, leading to 4 FT attempts.
- In the 13:47 in the first half with Hawkins off the floor, Rutgers was 11/24 from the floor (45.8%) with 1 TO and scored 32 points. We fouled them 8 times, leading to 9 FT attempts.
SECOND HALF:
- Hawkins played the entire second half. Rutgers shot 8/28 from the floor (28.5%) with 5 TO and scored 22 points. We fouled them 8 times, leading to 7 FT attempts.
OVERALL:
In the 26:13 Hawkins was on the floor, Rutgers shot 9/36 (25%) from the floor with 9 TO and scored 26 points. We fouled them 12 times, leading to 11 FT attempts.
In the 13:47 Hawkins was off the floor, Rutgers shot 11/24 from the floor (45.8%) with 1 TO and scored 32 points. We fouled them 8 times, leading to 9 FT attempts.
I'm pretty comfortable calling that dominant - he absolutely wrecked them.
EDITED BECAUSE I MISCOUNTED SOMETHING
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Spark bringing the FACTS.
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Decided to take a look at it.
FIRST HALF:
- Hawkins played the first half until Rutgers called a timeout with 14:49 left. At that point it was 14-2 and Rutgers was 0/6 from the floor with 4 TO. We fouled them 3 times resulting in two FT attempts.
- He sat until the 13:44 mark. In that 1:05, Rutgers was 0/1 from the floor with 1 TO. Pretty solid to this point with or without him. We fouled them 2 times (both by Dainja, who came in for him) leading to 0 FT attempts.
- At the 12:42 mark, he got his second foul and sat for the rest of the half. In the minute he played here, Rutgers was 1/2 from the field. We fouled them once, leading to 2 FT attempts.
- In the 6 minutes, 13 seconds of the first half with Hawkins on the floor, Rutgers was 1/8 (12.5%) from the floor with 4 TO and scored 4 points. We fouled them 4 times, leading to 4 FT attempts.
- In the 13:47 in the first half with Hawkins off the floor, Rutgers was 11/24 from the floor (45.8%) with 1 TO and scored 32 points. We fouled them 8 times, leading to 9 FT attempts.
SECOND HALF:
- Hawkins played the entire second half. Rutgers shot 8/28 from the floor (28.5%) with 5 TO and scored 22 points. We fouled them 8 times, leading to 7 FT attempts.
OVERALL:
In the 26:13 Hawkins was on the floor, Rutgers shot 9/36 (25%) from the floor with 9 TO and scored 26 points. We fouled them 12 times, leading to 11 FT attempts.
In the 13:47 Hawkins was off the floor, Rutgers shot 11/24 from the floor (45.8%) with 1 TO and scored 32 points. We fouled them 8 times, leading to 9 FT attempts.
I'm pretty comfortable calling that dominant - he absolutely wrecked them.
EDITED BECAUSE I MISCOUNTED SOMETHING
I think he looked better I will certainly give you that. I think stating he was dominant and he wrecked them is an overstatement, but we just disagree.
I acknowledged it was better. Instead of trying to make a highlight defensive play or block he played better fundamental position defense, especially in second half when he stayed out of foul trouble.
I am really not sure the numbers you cite are due to him or any other Illini in particular, or spurious, and due to better team D and more disciplined rotations overall and of course the abysmal shooting and offense by Rutgers who by the numbers is the worst offensive team in the league.
Hawkins individual defense YTD has been poor IMO. Again- We may disagree. He gets backed down and posted up and scored on pretty easily, commits silly fouls from lazy footwork and reaching and is soft. It was better yesterday for sure. Dominant is a stretch.
My comment in game was actually after another tentative weak take to the basket on offense. He was 3-9 from the field and threw up two more bricks from 3.
Now shooting 11% from three. He has been a liability on offense so far.
No, I am not, nor have ever been a fan of Hawkins and think he is over rated as a defender until he can improve his fundamentals. I would rather see the better fundamentals to get and hold position rather than the occasional highlight reel block.
But to be fair, this was a better game as you note and hopefully a sign of good things to come. We need him to be better.
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I think he looked better I will certainly give you that. I think stating he was dominant and he wrecked them is an overstatement, but we just disagree.
I acknowledged it was better. Instead of trying to make a highlight defensive play or block he played better fundamental position defense, especially in second half when he stayed out of foul trouble.
I am really not sure the numbers you cite are due to him or any other Illini in particular, or spurious, and due to better team D and more disciplined rotations overall and of course the abysmal shooting and offense by Rutgers who by the numbers is the worst offensive team in the league.
Hawkins individual defense YTD has been poor IMO. Again- We may disagree. He gets backed down and posted up and scored on pretty easily, commits silly fouls from lazy footwork and reaching and is soft. It was better yesterday for sure. Dominant is a stretch.
My comment in game was actually after another tentative weak take to the basket on offense. He was 3-9 from the field and threw up two more bricks from 3.
Now shooting 11% from three. He has been a liability on offense so far.
No, I am not, nor have ever been a fan of Hawkins and think he is over rated as a defender until he can improve his fundamentals. I would rather see the better fundamentals to get and hold position rather than the occasional highlight reel block.
But to be fair, this was a better game as you note and hopefully a sign of good things to come. We need him to be better.
Haha, yeah. Probably just a coincidence that they scored more points in half the time, and shot 20% better from the field, without him on the floor.
Your preconception about Hawkins definitely couldn’t be playing into this.
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Curious what his +- is this game, seems somehow like we play a lot better with him in than out today at least
So with sparks stats +25? I don't have time to math right now
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This seems like a pretty big stretch.
https://www.thechampaignroom.com/2023/12/3/23986159/brad-underwood-has-his-best-team-at-illinois-right-now-fighting-illini-ncaa-big-ten
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This seems like a pretty big stretch.
https://www.thechampaignroom.com/2023/12/3/23986159/brad-underwood-has-his-best-team-at-illinois-right-now-fighting-illini-ncaa-big-ten
It's very indicative of that embarrassment of a site (it's no Writing Illini, but in terms of terrible writing that's a nearly unsurpassable bar). I bet you could find an article like this from a year ago too.
I think this team has the potential to be an awful lot better than last year's team. I think it has the potential to make a tournament run. Any of that is FAR from written, there is way, way too much season left to say anything close to what that headline says. We looked good yesterday - we need to look good in these next three against real teams. If we defend and rebound like that, we are going to be tough - definitely have work to do on offense though. I hope Shannon has an AA type season, but we shouldn't need to rely on him to bail us out.
Also Shannon has been fantastic so far including shooting the ball, but he was shooting the ball well at this point last year (43% through 7 games last year, 46% through 7 this year) and finished at 32%. Obviously him being a 40% shooter would go a very long way for both our season and his pro future, but I don't think I would bet on it either. If he shoots 37% over a whole season I think that'd be great.
The biggest improvement I've seen from Shannon is that he's willingly gone right a number of times so far.
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Yeah the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 teams were better but who knows lot of season left to play
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Haha, yeah. Probably just a coincidence that they scored more points in half the time, and shot 20% better from the field, without him on the floor.
Your preconception about Hawkins definitely couldn’t be playing into this.
It is not a preconception - the guy has been simply bad for us this year on both sides of the ball.
I am objective about him. He was a 3 star #167 coming in and has played to that level.
I hope he gets to another level. If he can impact the games in the next two games against good teams that will be a good sign.
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It's very indicative of that embarrassment of a site (it's no Writing Illini, but in terms of terrible writing that's a nearly unsurpassable bar). I bet you could find an article like this from a year ago too.
I think this team has the potential to be an awful lot better than last year's team. I think it has the potential to make a tournament run. Any of that is FAR from written, there is way, way too much season left to say anything close to what that headline says. We looked good yesterday - we need to look good in these next three against real teams. If we defend and rebound like that, we are going to be tough - definitely have work to do on offense though. I hope Shannon has an AA type season, but we shouldn't need to rely on him to bail us out.
Also Shannon has been fantastic so far including shooting the ball, but he was shooting the ball well at this point last year (43% through 7 games last year, 46% through 7 this year) and finished at 32%. Obviously him being a 40% shooter would go a very long way for both our season and his pro future, but I don't think I would bet on it either. If he shoots 37% over a whole season I think that'd be great.
The biggest improvement I've seen from Shannon is that he's willingly gone right a number of times so far.
Agree with all of this. Let's see what we have after next week.
My biggest takeaway yesterday was Domask being aggressive and making plays and scoring. TSJ can't likely sustain this level, but if Domask and Hawkins and Guerrier step up to their ability on offense we could be good. Our D seems better this year. Our offense is a work in progress. Teams that make a deep run are historically in the top 20 area in both.
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It is not a preconception - the guy has been simply bad for us this year on both sides of the ball.
I am objective about him. He was a 3 star #167 coming in and has played to that level.
I hope he gets to another level. If he can impact the games in the next two games against good teams that will be a good sign.
I think he's been quite a bit better than what I'd typically expect from a 3* #167 type recruit.
I definitely understand why people would be frustrated watching him, I am too at times, but it's because he IMO has the ceiling to be great, and is consistently only solid - not because he's terrible.
My frustrations with Hawkins are that he has the athleticism and skillset to be a really good, all-conference type player at this level and has just never put it together consistently. I agree he hasn't been very good so far this year in extremely limited time, but he's had a pretty solid career. IMO he should've been all-B1G Honorable Mention last year, I was surprised he wasn't. He was in the top-20 in the B1G in rebounds, assists, and blocks per game (along with, if you're into advanced stats, DWS, DRtg, and DBPM). He's got a little game, at least.
He's a very good defender. He's a good passer and rebounder, and a pretty solid ball-handler for his size. He is a passable shooter, but obviously nothing special. His problems are between his ears, it seems like - his biggest hurdle is consistency.
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I'll add, the biggest thing Hawkins needs to completely cut out of his game is the Harden-step three. I get why kids want to take those, but his percentage would be considerably better if he stuck to shooting in-rhythm open threes off the pass.
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I think he's been quite a bit better than what I'd typically expect from a 3* #167 type recruit.
I definitely understand why people would be frustrated watching him, I am too at times, but it's because he IMO has the ceiling to be great, and is consistently only solid - not because he's terrible.
My frustrations with Hawkins are that he has the athleticism and skillset to be a really good, all-conference type player at this level and has just never put it together consistently. I agree he hasn't been very good so far this year in extremely limited time, but he's had a pretty solid career. IMO he should've been all-B1G Honorable Mention last year, I was surprised he wasn't. He was in the top-20 in the B1G in rebounds, assists, and blocks per game (along with, if you're into advanced stats, DWS, DRtg, and DBPM). He's got a little game, at least.
He's a very good defender. He's a good passer and rebounder, and a pretty solid ball-handler for his size. He is a passable shooter, but obviously nothing special. His problems are between his ears, it seems like - his biggest hurdle is consistency.
Agree- his mental game is his biggest challenge. I hope he puts it together.
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I'll add, the biggest thing Hawkins needs to completely cut out of his game is the Harden-step three. I get why kids want to take those, but his percentage would be considerably better if he stuck to shooting in-rhythm open threes off the pass.
Absolutely, The metrics on all of these guys at every level on catch and shoot open threes, and step in open threes being better is clear.
They track all of this shit.
The step back requires elite mechanics and footwork and balance and shooting contested threes is a whole different level for Plummer types.
TSJ has taken makeabale threes to date and it is paying off. He is making great decisions.
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Re-Watched the Rutgers game last night, since my football teams were not doing well...
Rodgers was getting sped up a lot, and made many errors. He is easily our 2nd most athletic player on the team, but handling the ball is not a strong point as far as PG goes.
TSJ is an All-American, he is clutch for us, he makes mistakes in transition by getting to deep at times, however, very good with the bad.
CoHawk we will see what we really have the next 2 games, however there is a point of when he was trying to score down low, he fell to the ground and a timeout ensued, the TV showed him looking at a ref and "lipsynced reading", he said thats a F*c&ing foul dumbass...same ole, same ole from the head case.
Domask is and will be a do everything for us most nights, I liked the aggression on the failed dunk drive.
Guerrier is I think becoming our #2 go to player for offense, and he seems to be much more aggressive in this game vs others.
Harmon played some forgettable minutes, I still think he on most nights will be overmatched.
Dain looked better, more involved, more interested, just foul trouble will be his main issue as with many other inside big players.
The real season has started, we will see how we fair these next 2 very meaningful games. I think athletically, Tennessee will not be a good match up for us, and before that, FLAT will beat us with their guards and pressure, unless BU figures out a better way to get ball across half court. If he doesn't we may have to watch a full game of hero ball in the last 15 seconds of every possession.