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General Category => Fighting Illini Basketball Forum => Topic started by: ILLINICHIEF on November 21, 2023, 08:57:57 AM

Title: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ILLINICHIEF on November 21, 2023, 08:57:57 AM
AP preseason men's Top 25 basketball poll - from ESPN article
First-place votes in parentheses.

1. Kansas (52) - Deserved
2. Purdue (5) - Deserved
3. Arizona (3) - Probable NC Team
4. Marquette - Without Kolek, avg at best
5. UConn (1) - Will be a Final Four Team
6. Houston - The coach found the perfect fit for his style-Elite Eight at least
7. Tennessee - Will fade late, but will win alot of games
8. Creighton - Solid but not a contender for Final Four
9. Duke - A little disjointed under Scheyer, will be there though
10. Miami - Won't be near Top 10 by year end
11. Gonzaga - Will again be solid, underwhelming this year, sneaky pick again?
12. Texas A&M - Solid guards, will win 2 games in March at least
13. Baylor - Slipping a little, still solid, if unspectacular
14. North Carolina - Center can't win them all for them, 1, maybe 2 games in March
15. Texas - Solid play, will be a contender by year end
16. Kentucky - Underrated and will be a sneaky play by year end. Getting overlooked for once.
17. Alabama - Same play, same game, run it back and again nothing at year end
18. Colorado - Will be in this range all year, nothing in March
19. FAU - We will see soon, if TSJ has to play 1 on 5, we lose big here
20. Arkansas - Run and Gun once again, more play inside than usual though
21. Michigan State - Over rated once again, even at 21
22. James Madison - Won't be in Top 25 at years end
23. USC - Will max out around 10-15 but be ranked all year.
24. Virginia - Another solid year, another boring team, albeit a little more interesting this year
25. Mississippi State - Good overall players, enough to compete? Who knows.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ThePAMan on November 21, 2023, 09:46:17 AM
What happened to the Illini?
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: frankiew on November 21, 2023, 09:59:01 AM
Virginia got destroyed by Wisconsin so they'll be out
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Reacher on November 21, 2023, 11:10:12 AM
What happened to the Illini?

Life.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Reacher on November 21, 2023, 11:12:20 AM
Super objective Writing Illini says Top 25 “makes zero sense.”

https://writingillini.com/2023/11/20/illinois-basketball-latest-ap-top-25-makes-zero-sense-illini-drop/
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Judge Judy on November 21, 2023, 11:16:09 AM
Super objective Writing Illini says Top 25 “makes zero sense.”

https://writingillini.com/2023/11/20/illinois-basketball-latest-ap-top-25-makes-zero-sense-illini-drop/

He’s right though, it really doesn’t…
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Custard on November 21, 2023, 11:58:58 AM
We moved up a spot in the coaches poll
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Lkdog on November 21, 2023, 01:41:44 PM
Nobody has seen hardly any of these teams and very few have played against real competition.
Will see how they look in a few weeks.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Jrock74 on November 21, 2023, 05:41:37 PM
We have looked terrible thru our first 5 games.  The marquette game was hard to watch.  They played like ass and still won.  The real point was we should have never been ranked to begin with.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Custard on November 21, 2023, 06:36:06 PM
We have looked terrible thru our first 5 games.  The marquette game was hard to watch.  They played like ass and still won.  The real point was we should have never been ranked to begin with.

Are you watching other teams? Buddies of mine (not Illini fans) were texting me during the Marquette game saying our game looked a lot more high level than Duke/MSU. I don’t really think Marquette played like ass, either. Kolek had a great individual performance. They put up 71 on the road against a team with a high level D. Our defense made them look iffy at times by contesting and blocking shots. This team is certainly not great right now but they aren’t terrible.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Jrock74 on November 21, 2023, 07:07:43 PM
Yes defense is our strength but its not elite by any means.   Generally speaking when you think of what a top 25 team in college basketball looks like in years past.   We dont meet that bar.   

I still dont think marquette is all that good.  They have no front court.  Any team with pulse down low will beat them up inside and we are a bit of a poor mans version of marquette with no point guard or low post threat.  Without kolek marquette probably wouldnt even be a tourny team this year  He's all they got.  Like illinois all we got is shannon. 

We are winning games because we have some talent, not because we play well.  Our offense outside of shannon is atrocious in the half court. Like middle school bad.  There are so many problems on that end its not even worth listing it.  Everyone already knows them

Defensively brads players have usually always brought it.  Ive never really had a issue with that end but soon as you take away our offensive transition you have essentially disarmed brads tradiitional illini teams from winning. Probably why he sucks in the post season.

Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Jrock74 on November 21, 2023, 07:10:08 PM
Are you watching other teams? Buddies of mine (not Illini fans) were texting me during the Marquette game saying our game looked a lot more high level than Duke/MSU. I don’t really think Marquette played like ass, either. Kolek had a great individual performance. They put up 71 on the road against a team with a high level D. Our defense made them look iffy at times by contesting and blocking shots. This team is certainly not great right now but they aren’t terrible.

Ill be watching a lot more this weekend.  I dont like kansas all that much.  Purdue and Arkansas have looked solid.  Wisconsin Marquette Virginia looked very meh to me.  I havent seen any ACC yet.  Zags look like same old Zags.  Good but not top 10 good.  Tennessee looked okay vs Syracuse.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Jrock74 on November 21, 2023, 07:37:38 PM
See that arkansas lost to greensboro.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Reacher on November 21, 2023, 07:45:57 PM
He’s right though, it really doesn’t…

Arguing back end of the top 25 in mid November is pretty subjective.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ThePAMan on November 21, 2023, 08:04:33 PM
Arguing back end of the top 25 in mid November is pretty subjective.

When does it become objective? January 6th?
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Lkdog on November 21, 2023, 09:06:20 PM
We are 12th in the country in Def Rtg in Kenpom but have played some pretty awful shooting teams. Marquette was solid.
We are 67th in offense which is like 9th in BT.
That is going to be what determines if we will be just OK or pretty good.

Teams scheme to stop transition against us and especially in the league so it often becomes a half court execution, rebounding, and TO game.
We are always suspect in the half court under UW, but usually rebound and play decent enough defense, except for our absolute shit drop coverage. We can’t shoot the three and have TO issues again.

We will have better idea what we have in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Custard on November 21, 2023, 10:26:50 PM
Hoping the offense improves as rotations are set and more chemistry is developed. I thought the Marquette game was encouraging so it’s interesting to me to see others that feel the opposite. They’re giving Kansas all kinds of trouble like they did us, and KU has one of the best (ugh) bigs in the country.  Teams simply don’t need a big bruising front court anymore to win a ton of basketball games/the tourney.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Custard on November 21, 2023, 10:35:01 PM
Illinois was never down this much to Marquette and our ball handling certainly wasn’t any worse.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Judge Judy on November 21, 2023, 11:10:15 PM
Yeah, I’m not sure how people are saying Marquette isn’t a FF contender or any good. They’re a really good team. We beat Kansas and hung with Marquette most of the game. Our defense will keep us in almost any game. If we’re hitting shots, we’re dangerous. If we’re not, our defense will keep us close with a chance.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Custard on November 21, 2023, 11:21:13 PM
Lot of basketball to be played yet but Marquette is making everything very difficult for Kansas. They’re visibly shaken at this point.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Judge Judy on November 21, 2023, 11:29:32 PM
Yes defense is our strength but its not elite by any means.   Generally speaking when you think of what a top 25 team in college basketball looks like in years past.   We dont meet that bar.   

I still dont think marquette is all that good.  They have no front court.  Any team with pulse down low will beat them up inside and we are a bit of a poor mans version of marquette with no point guard or low post threat.  Without kolek marquette probably wouldnt even be a tourny team this year  He's all they got.  Like illinois all we got is shannon.

🤔 they seem to be doing just fine with Dickinson and the Kansas front court. Kolek is possibly/arguably the best PG in the country. He’s definitely an All-American.

And we beat one of the teams playing (#1 in the country) and hung all game with the other (#4 in the country). I’d say we’re easily a top-25 team.

Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Custard on November 21, 2023, 11:33:20 PM
Ighodaro is a good modern big man. 6’11” 235 lbs. Still scratching my head on their lack of front court.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Beach Bum on November 21, 2023, 11:33:39 PM
Marquette is doing all this without Kolek. He's out there, but he sucks today. Really impressive game in the making by Shaka Smart's crew.

Looking fwd to the title game tomorrow.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Judge Judy on November 21, 2023, 11:35:53 PM
Ighodaro is a good modern big man. 6’11” 235 lbs. Still scratching my head on their lack of front court.

Agreed. Not sure what the fuck he was talking about. Must be some good shit he was smokin when he wrote all that…
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Reacher on November 21, 2023, 11:49:24 PM
When does it become objective? January 6th?

Why do you keep using the wrong date? Are you that obsessed with t the capitol riot?
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Miles Leonard on November 22, 2023, 12:22:51 AM
I still dont think marquette is all that good.  They have no front court.  Any team with pulse down low will beat them up inside and we are a bit of a poor mans version of marquette with no point guard or low post threat.  Without kolek marquette probably wouldnt even be a tourny team this year  He's all they got.  Like illinois all we got is shannon. 

Kansas had what you would call a pulse down low and that didn't seem to bother Marquette. And Kolek was ass tonight though he did have 5 steals.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Somewhere in Mn on November 22, 2023, 06:39:41 AM
I didn't see much of PU vs Tn but it looks like we'll have our hands full trying to handle the ball vs Tn. Tn was down 8 halfway thru the 2nd half to a PU team that was playing well, but they kept playing. Aggressive defense got them tied and staying in the game.
PU with 16 turnovers.

We're at our best when we're playing defense. Unfortunately, it sometimes looks like an afterthought when we're too busy jacking up 3s or turning the ball over.
A bricked 3 and a turnover aren't much different. They're both wasted possessions.
And it's a lot easier to set up a defense after a made shot, but we all know that.

I didn't see Marquette-Ks but I thought Marquette looked very solid and well coached vs us.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ThePAMan on November 22, 2023, 07:20:08 AM
Just hoping the Illini signature win for the season isn't an exhibition game
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Lkdog on November 22, 2023, 09:45:55 AM
Ighodaro is a good modern big man. 6’11” 235 lbs. Still scratching my head on their lack of front court.

He is good. I was comparing him to Hawkins who are both potential second round draftees and he looks quite a bit more ready to make a roster.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Lkdog on November 22, 2023, 09:51:17 AM
I didn't see much of PU vs Tn but it looks like we'll have our hands full trying to handle the ball vs Tn. Tn was down 8 halfway thru the 2nd half to a PU team that was playing well, but they kept playing. Aggressive defense got them tied and staying in the game.
PU with 16 turnovers.

We're at our best when we're playing defense. Unfortunately, it sometimes looks like an afterthought when we're too busy jacking up 3s or turning the ball over.
A bricked 3 and a turnover aren't much different. They're both wasted possessions.
And it's a lot easier to set up a defense after a made shot, but we all know that.

I didn't see Marquette-Ks but I thought Marquette looked very solid and well coached vs us.

Purdue lack of athletes and 3 point shooting at guard can be their Achilles heel at times which people figured out toward end of last year.
But they are tough.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Reacher on November 22, 2023, 10:05:52 AM
Hawkins is so far away from being a draftee right now.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Reacher on November 22, 2023, 10:09:22 AM
Damn, Marquette opened up a can on Kansas. Is that the same group that beat us, I’d read they were missing a starter when we played them?

Maybe KU is overrated?
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Jrock74 on November 22, 2023, 10:45:35 AM
Kansas had what you would call a pulse down low and that didn't seem to bother Marquette. And Kolek was ass tonight though he did have 5 steals.

Hunter Dickerson isn't what I would call a rim protector by any means. Shouldn't surprise anyone that Marquette handled Kansas easily considering Illinois basically the same thing to them.  None the less I would assume both Tennessee and Purdue are better than Marquette.  Edey will annihilate Marquette in the paint.  Question will be to see how Purdue's young guards fair against Marquette's defensive pressure, but Tennessee looked likes one of the best defensive teams in the country last night.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Jrock74 on November 22, 2023, 10:47:03 AM
Damn, Marquette opened up a can on Kansas. Is that the same group that beat us, I’d read they were missing a starter when we played them?

Maybe KU is overrated?

I thought it was just Koleck playing hurt against us.  I didn't think they had anyone else out against us.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Beach Bum on November 22, 2023, 12:05:15 PM
Damn, Marquette opened up a can on Kansas. Is that the same group that beat us, I’d read they were missing a starter when we played them?

Maybe KU is overrated?

They definitely seemed overrated when we played them. 

First time in a long time I've seen a bill self team look completely out matched and out of their game last night. Was an awesome performance by Marquette, especially when Kolek looked average at best. Doubt he'll repeat as conference POTY when there are other guards doing more on his team.

I wonder if Tennessee uses the same formula. Quick guards, close outs, disrupt all passes, keep Hunter 15'+ from the hoop. 
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: illiniray on November 22, 2023, 12:05:52 PM
https://twitter.com/PurduePresident/status/1727141603800654194?t=eeSQNVtOUy60C64CQs8abw&s=19

“Watching [Purdue Basketball] playing against a wrestling team that fouls 100%,” Chiang said in his tweet. “Boilermaker student-athletes, be safe!”

https://www.rockytopinsider.com/2023/11/21/purdue-president-takes-shot-at-tennessee-danny-white-responds/
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Beach Bum on November 22, 2023, 12:12:01 PM
https://twitter.com/PurduePresident/status/1727141603800654194?t=eeSQNVtOUy60C64CQs8abw&s=19

Stupid. Purdue is more physical and less basketball like than any other top 5 team out there. Reason they get bounced so early come March. Wouldn't surprise me if it happens again in 2024.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: illiniray on November 22, 2023, 12:26:51 PM
52 personal fouls.  PU 21, TN 31

78 free shots. Purdue  29-48 Tennessee  21-30.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ILLove1997 on November 22, 2023, 12:31:54 PM
Let it be known again that I fucking hate Purdue and what it has done to Big ten basketball
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ThePAMan on November 22, 2023, 12:38:41 PM
Let it be known again that I fucking hate Purdue and what it has done to Big ten basketball

So let it be written; so let it be done.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ILLINICHIEF on November 22, 2023, 02:54:15 PM
Let it be known again that I fucking hate Purdue and what it has done to Big ten basketball

Purdue does suck most years, however they will wax us this year and next and the one after that possibly.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Reacher on November 22, 2023, 03:33:57 PM
Purdue does suck most years, however they will wax us this year and next and the one after that possibly.

To quote Carl Spackler, “So we got that goin’ for us…which is nice.’
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ILLove1997 on November 22, 2023, 03:42:35 PM
I'm gonna enjoy watching purdue get their shit pushed in by marquette today
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: illiniray on November 22, 2023, 03:54:58 PM
To the best of my knowledge, Fred Taylor started Big Ten style thug ball at tOSU. Knight and Mean Gene took it to another level.

Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: Lkdog on November 22, 2023, 05:17:48 PM
Purdue does suck most years, however they will wax us this year and next and the one after that possibly.

You say a lot of stupid shit.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ridingthegrange on November 22, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
To the best of my knowledge, Fred Taylor started Big Ten style thug ball at tOSU. Knight and Mean Gene took it to another level.

I remember Dave Scholz getting mugged in Columbus late 60's.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: illiniray on November 22, 2023, 06:14:39 PM
Look at PU and Tenn. The boilers shot a poor ft % and still made 29 free shots. The Vols attempted 30. I didn't watch, but I bet PU was the aggressor. They will play very physical ball, yet often shoot more free throws than their opponent attempts.
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ILLINICHIEF on November 22, 2023, 08:37:23 PM
You say a lot of stupid shit.

Mostly just answering to yours though...I see ya down there...
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: illiniray on November 22, 2023, 08:40:05 PM
With Keady ( and Knight), there were maybe 3 factors.

1. All 5 guys played physical all the time at both ends. It made it hard for the refs to call the game.

2. The retaliator, not the instigator, tends to get whistled. Their guys instigated shit.

3. Their sideline demeanor was intimidating. They bullied the refs.

The first 2 might apply to Painter. As for the 3rd, I think he might kill them with kindness. He's good ole boy 'Paint.'
Title: Re: College Basketball AP Top 25 11/24/23 Week
Post by: ThePAMan on November 23, 2023, 01:52:29 AM
I'm gonna enjoy watching purdue get their shit pushed in by marquette today

Oops