IlliniHQ 2
General Category => Halas Hall Football Forum => Topic started by: ThePAMan on October 15, 2023, 07:31:55 PM
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There is only one answer!
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You’re a good troll. But sometimes you’re just a pathetic troll.
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Miles = Rick Morrissey is a match?
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2023/10/15/23918396/time-for-bears-to-sit-justin-fields-give-tyson-bagent-chance-matt-eberflus-shepherd-university
Even though Bagent threw a very bad interception Sunday in a 19-13 loss to the Vikings, he showed enough in his emergency performance to deserve another look. That’s all you need to know about Fields and the state of the 1-5 Bears.
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He received the same uneven-to-bad blocking that Fields has received for the past three years but exhibited a much better feel for the passing game than Fields ever has. He threw a couple of ridiculous passes, including the underthrown interception on first down at the Minnesota 35 that all but ended the game. He also lost the ball on a strip sack that turned into a 42-yard fumble return.
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But tell me where the Bears are going with Fields. He’s no longer the rookie with tons of room to grow. He’s every bit of what we’ve seen for too long, a quarterback who doesn’t look beyond his first read. The best version of him is when he runs, and that version doesn’t work in the NFL.
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Fields went 6-of-10 for 58 yards and an interception, which is why his passer rating was 36.7. The Vikings sacked him four times, the last one leading to his injury. That performance is much closer to the player Fields is than the player who threw for a combined 617 yards and eight touchdowns the previous two weeks. Those games, against the Broncos and the Commanders, were a mirage, the product of two bad defenses.
His stats Sunday felt … normal.
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After the game, Eberflus didn’t sound like a man making a change at quarterback. If that’s because he doesn’t believe Bagent is good enough, fine. If it’s because he believes Fields is good enough, then the Bears have more than a quarterback problem. They have a judgment problem, too.
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Hilarious writing. If he thinks Bagent isn’t good enough, fine. But play him anyway!
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Bingo 🎯
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I thought Bagent looked like more of a QB than Fields before I thankfully fell asleep
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I thought Bagent looked like more of a QB than Fields before I thankfully fell asleep
You should be on a sports take show . I heard Skip Bayless lost a co-host recently.
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You should be on a sports take show . I heard Skip Bayless lost a co-host recently.
It’s true though. He did look like more of a QB that would throw the ball.
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It’s true though. He did look like more of a QB that would throw the ball.
Yep, that throw that was 5 yards short of DJ Moore and went for an easy pick was very quarterbacky!
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As I’m quoting Wootton I literally just heard him say that Bagent did some things ok but “doesn’t have the zip.”
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“Does a lot of things you’d like to see but clearly doesn’t have the zip.”
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“Does a lot of things you’d like to see but clearly doesn’t have the zip.”
But he can get better, right?
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“Does a lot of things you’d like to see but clearly doesn’t have the zip.”
He clearly doesn’t believe facts…
https://x.com/wiltfongjr/status/1714399240649150786?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
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But he can get better, right?
If he doesn’t have the zip, probably not much.
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He clearly doesn’t believe facts…
https://x.com/wiltfongjr/status/1714399240649150786?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Cool. Hopefully he shows more zip in the future than he did on that badly underthrown pick.
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It’s cute you guys are getting stoked about a UDFA Division II rookie though. Good luck with that.
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There is no one that Tempo won’t turn on in order to protect his JFF position.
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There is no one that Tempo won’t turn on in order to protect his JFF position.
Turn on? I’m merely being realistic. He’s a DII UDFA rookie. If he turns out to be a Gardner Minshew level backup for the Bears for multiple years his career will have been a terrific success.
You guys think I’m the one that’s delusional?
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You guys think I’m the one that’s delusional?
I'm not sure delusional is the correct word.
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He clearly doesn’t believe facts…
https://x.com/wiltfongjr/status/1714399240649150786?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
These are comments #1 and #2.
Where have I seen arguments like this before ?
Oh, page 1. Lol.
(https://i.ibb.co/qBrBsJ6/Screenshot-20231018-055528.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1ZmZqzc)
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Shocking that no one has said Bagent should get 50 starts like Mitch did to prove himself.
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Shocking that no one has said Bagent should get 50 starts like Mitch did to prove himself.
Lol
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Lol
I do not know why you are targeting me today with derision.
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He clearly doesn’t believe facts…
https://x.com/wiltfongjr/status/1714399240649150786?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
Josh Lucas, former Bears player personnel director just said that Bagent's lack of arm talent "really stands out on the tape" from Sunday. So I guess we'll see.
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So, in less than one half of football in the NFL, it has been determined that Tyson Bagent sucks.
However, we have to wait 4 years to conclude the same about Justin Fields.
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So, in less than one half of football in the NFL, it has been determined that Tyson Bagent sucks.
However, we have to wait 4 years to conclude the same about Justin Fields.
Bingo!
Kyle Shannon said fuck that with Lance. And he’s a NFL offensive genius!
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So, in less than one half of football in the NFL, it has been determined that Tyson Bagent sucks.
However, we have to wait 4 years to conclude the same about Justin Fields.
Pretty strawmnanny there. However, if confidence were high he could actually be good, he’d have been drafted. Not even the Bears drafted him.
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So, in less than one half of football in the NFL, it has been determined that Tyson Bagent sucks.
However, we have to wait 4 years to conclude the same about Justin Fields.
Also, you’re comparing a guy that commanded two 1st round picks vs a guy who played DII and went undrafted. So yeah, one guy is gonna get a much longer look.
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Pretty strawmnanny there. However, if confidence were high he could actually be good, he’d have been drafted. Not even the Bears drafted him.
I'm not saying I'm confident in his abilities at all. But I would kinda like to see him play a little before I come to any conclusions.
It's possible people get missed. Certainly not likely given the scouting and technology and what not, but it's possible.
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Also, you’re comparing a guy that commanded two 1st round picks vs a guy who played DII and went undrafted. So yeah, one guy is gonna get a much longer look.
Sure, but I don't think less than 30 minutes of NFL game time is enough.
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I haven’t ruled out anything completely. But I think Gardner Minshew is probably the ceiling for Tyson. Which would be excellent. For a backup.
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I haven’t ruled out anything completely. But I think Gardner Minshew is probably the ceiling for Tyson. Which would be excellent. For a backup.
I'm willing to wait and see. Sounds like we'll get a few games. I'm not going to pretend to know.
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Sure, but I don't think less than 30 minutes of NFL game time is enough.
It’s probably enough for an expert to conclude he lacks arm talent. That doesn’t mean he can’t be good if he’s good enough at several other things. There have been successful NFL QBs without great arms.
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It’s probably enough for an expert to conclude he lacks arm talent.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Again, I'm not saying he has it or he doesn't, but we're gonna find out.
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*probably* always a chance for misevaluation. But in the last 14 hours I’ve heard a former player and a former personnel director say his lack of arm strength was apparent. Time will tell.
Arm strength isn’t a prerequisite to being good. Helps a lot though.
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I'm not saying I'm confident in his abilities at all. But I would kinda like to see him play a little before I come to any conclusions.
It's possible people get missed. Certainly not likely given the scouting and technology and what not, but it's possible.
As we have seen, guys are missed on all the time. Especially when the Bear trade multiple draft picks, blah blah blah, for QBs.
Yeah, the odds are he sucks. Maybe he can play a little smarter with some prep and be marginally competent. It could be an improvement. Or a complete and utter Henry Burris-type disaster.
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I'm not sure I agree with that. Again, I'm not saying he has it or he doesn't, but we're gonna find out.
We will not need over 2.5 years OR* 50 starts to figure it out. The next couple of weeks, probably, is his one shot. He either look remotely competent or he does not. If not, move on.
*Edit: Took out "and" and replaced with "OR"
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We will not need over 2.5 years and 50 starts to figure it out. The next couple of weeks, probably, is his one shot. He either look remotely competent or he does not. If not, move on.
Yep. Agreed.
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We will not need over 2.5 years and 50 starts to figure it out. The next couple of weeks, probably, is his one shot. He either look remotely competent or he does not. If not, move on.
50 starts over 2.5 years isn’t even mathematically possible.
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50 starts over 2.5 years isn’t even mathematically possible.
I should have typed "or" instead of "and" there. My mistake.
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I should have typed "or" instead of "and" there. My mistake.
You obviously conflated Mitch and Justin. Whether or not that was done purposefully, only you can say.
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You obviously conflated Mitch and Justin. Whether or not that was done purposefully, only you can say.
I was covering that Fields has had 2.5 years in the league (and you still claim more time is needed to evaluate him) and your "Mitch got 50 starts so should Fields"-type arguments.
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I was covering that Fields has had 2.5 years in the league (and you still claim more time is needed to evaluate him) and your "Mitch got 50 starts so should Fields"-type arguments.
I never said Fields “should get 50 starts.” I was making the case that it’s unfair that Mitch gets 50 while tons of people were wanting to launch Justin after 26. Or in your case, maybe 10.
I did feel Justin deserved at least the rest of this year. Most teams are not going to give up on a QB they’ve invested so much in only 2 years. Again, most. And before you present the 49ers, they don’t give up on Lance if they didn’t have Purdy. We don’t have a Brock Purdy.
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His name is Tys-, oh never mind.
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I never said Fields “should get 50 starts.” I was making the case that it’s unfair that Mitch gets 50 while tons of people were wanting to launch Justin after 26. Or in your case, maybe 10.
I did feel Justin deserved at least the rest of this year. Most teams are not going to give up on a QB they’ve invested so much in only 2 years. Again, most. And before you present the 49ers, they don’t give up on Lance if they didn’t have Purdy. We don’t have a Brock Purdy.
Mitch should not have been able to start 50 games. We all know he sucked far sooner than that.
Yet, the 49er hedged and re-signed Jimmy G at the time for a reason.
Fields will get another chance just like Mitch has had a few chances since he left Chicago. Everyone thinks they are better than the previous coaches and can fix a guy. Not everyone is Geno Smith though.
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From Oct 7, 2022, fixed ...
"If Fields is bad this time next year in 2024, I’ll be worried. I am not panicking on the kid yet. Again, please give me the extensive list of QBs who were clearly stars before their 14th start. "
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The point is, Mitch was given every opportunity. He wasn’t benched for an UDFA rookie. If you give up on every quarterback after 2 years, you’re probably not going to find a good one. Everyone looks at Joe Burrow and thinks everyone should look like that. It’s not realistic. Almost every quarterback has growing pains, especially ones who aren’t in good situations
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Listening to a Bagent interview right now. He apparently believes in pre-determination.
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From Oct 7, 2022, fixed ...
"If Fields is bad this time next year in 2024, I’ll be worried. I am not panicking on the kid yet. Again, please give me the extensive list of QBs who were clearly stars before their 14th start. "
He had 8 TDs/600 yards passing and a 128 passer rating his previous two starts before getting injured. So..not all “bad.”
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Looks like the answer would have been "yes" if they had started Bagent sooner.
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Class act by Fields in the video…
https://x.com/dave_bfr/status/1716224612034375873?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
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Class act by Fields in the video…
https://x.com/dave_bfr/status/1716224612034375873?s=46&t=nLWTarDKWNHMqYhTVD-LQQ
What did I miss?
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What did I miss?
Just that he was very complimentary and looked genuinely happy, clapping and cheering in the background. He’s a good kid and I do like him. I just wish he could put it together between the ears on the football field. I hope he does, but after 3 years, I don’t know 🤷🏻♂️
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Just that he was very complimentary and looked genuinely happy, clapping and cheering in the background. He’s a good kid and I do like him. I just wish he could put it together between the ears on the football field. I hope he does, but after 3 years, I don’t know 🤷🏻♂️
Judging from the…I thought you were being sarcastic.
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Judging from the…I thought you were being sarcastic.
No, I was and am being genuine
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Justin Fields is a hard worker and a classy dude, it’s one of the reasons I don’t get the hatred towards him.
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horseshit poll. We all know he gets hurt and DeVito takes them to the promised land
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I haven’t really seen any hate towards him, I think people just want him to be better at football than what he’s been. Now I’m sure there are all kinds of red assed idiots all over Twitter etc but they don’t really count.
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Lol
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(https://i.postimg.cc/N0NfRkzS/IMG-5283.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9dSSpZx)how to capture screen (https://postimages.org/app)
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No INT or fumbles in that chart. Also, he was allowed to check out of plays at the line and call the protections. Amazing what happens when the QB can read a defense. Big improvement over the previous occupant of the position.
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Lol
Where did you hear he was calling protections? Not that he needed much. Most passes went less than 5 yards. Run that offense against Philly and it’s a 38-3 loss.
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Lol
Where did you hear he was calling protections? Not that he needed much. Most passes went less than 5 yards. Run that offense against Philly and it’s a 38-3 loss.
Post game shows
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Post game shows
Can we trust their content?
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From what I watched, and based on my non-expert opinion:
He was loose. Game plan or not, he saw what was and wasn't there, and made the throws he was supposed to make. And the ball came out quickly.
That Raiders defense was either bad or not prepared. Probably both.
The guy has some swagger to him. He did his job for Sunday. He was prepared and knew what he was supposed to do. And he executed. Can't take that away from him, no matter how much you love Fields.
Ceiling is probably Heinicke. Which isn't bad at all.
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From what I watched, and based on my non-expert opinion:
He was loose. Game plan or not, he saw what was and wasn't there, and made the throws he was supposed to make. And the ball came out quickly.
That Raiders defense was either bad or not prepared. Probably both.
The guy has some swagger to him. He did his job for Sunday. He was prepared and knew what he was supposed to do. And he executed. Can't take that away from him, no matter how much you love Fields.
Ceiling is probably Heinicke. Which isn't bad at all.
If you get a QB who doesn't turn the ball over, moves the chains ok, and invest in a solid running game - you can win a lot of games. There are only so many Mahomes out there. As in, one.
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If you get a QB who doesn't turn the ball over, moves the chains ok, and invest in a solid running game - you can win a lot of games. There are only so many Mahomes out there. As in, one.
It's possible, but you also have to have a good defense to keep the score down.
Every team has a salary cap to work with. You have to figure out where to put the money to help you win. Some teams are better at it than others. The key is winning while your QB is on his rookie deal. See Seattle Seahawks with the Legion of Boom.
Right now, the Bears have a below average offense and a below average defense. Hence the record. The QB on his rookie deal is not on a winning team.
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Can we trust their content?
Wasn't the Score or AM1000, so possibly.
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From what I watched, and based on my non-expert opinion:
He was loose. Game plan or not, he saw what was and wasn't there, and made the throws he was supposed to make. And the ball came out quickly.
That Raiders defense was either bad or not prepared. Probably both.
The guy has some swagger to him. He did his job for Sunday. He was prepared and knew what he was supposed to do. And he executed. Can't take that away from him, no matter how much you love Fields.
Ceiling is probably Heinicke. Which isn't bad at all.
I’ve literally said probably 18x that he played an excellent game. And said if he’s another Gardner Minshew that would be a fantastic outcome.
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Wasn't the Score or AM1000, so possibly.
Or ESPN. Or a YouTube channel. Or a Twitter guy. Or a former QB. Or a Reddit guy.
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Murph needs to post here more, because his football takes are legit the funniest since Squeaky was here.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/WbY7JgnQ/IMG-5298.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w7JNCtnV)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/WbY7JgnQ/IMG-5298.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w7JNCtnV)
And they still blew them out! Awesome job by Bagent and the receivers in taking what they were given by the Raider D.
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https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/nfl/chicago-bears/bears-analysis/how-justin-fields-played-integral-role-in-tyson-bagents-debut-win-vs-raiders/515023/
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https://www.wsj.com/sports/football/tyson-bagent-chicago-bears-justin-fields-division-ii-nfl-696e19ed
Ride the serpent while you can, kid....
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Dan Hampton still liking what he sees out of Bagent in his second start!
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Dan Hampton still liking what he sees out of Bagent in his second start!
LMFAO