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rank our last 5 coaches

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ThePAMan

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2023, 04:36:32 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 22, 2023, 04:15:04 PM
It's simply revisionist history.  It's the EXACT same logic people are using right now about Underwood.  Just ignore all context.

I do not believe this is exactly true. Yes, the program is back to where the expectation is that the team has a great chance to make The Tournament every year. One thing troubling to me, obviously, is what happened when he had Ayo and Kofi and completely shit the bed in The Tournament. There seems to be an issue when it comes to his coaching of that second game in The Tournament.

He's a competent coach. He can be flexible in changing schemes when one is not working. Is he a great coach that will get Illinois into Blue Blood/UConn Territory? I hope so, but I am skeptical based on what we have seen.
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2023, 05:01:24 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 22, 2023, 04:15:04 PM

I've gotta just laugh at the "why use 4 years?" attitude.  One single second of thought would lead you to the why.

I used the last 6 years and the last 4 years of Henson's program. I explained why. 6 reflected what happened after Gill, Bardo, and Liberty were gone. 4, after probation ended..

You cited 5 years. I saw no reason except to get a worse winning percentage and make it look like the program was in worse shape than it was.

The situation Lon inherited was quite a bit better than what Henson and Underwood inherited. Despite Pearl and Slive, Lou still left the program in better shape than he found it.

LK also left it in better shape than he found it, but there is context to that too. He came into a favorable downstate recruiting situation. On the negative side, he was pretty much locked out of Chicago, dimming long range prospects for success.
 
Was it Pat Kennedy who raked in and wasted all that Chicago talent at DePud? The door was subsequently reopened for UI and Weber was clueless ...
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2023, 05:11:13 PM »
Like Lon Kruger, when Lou Henson came here, he found himself mostly locked out of Chicago. DePaul cleaned up. Knight came into Illinois and took what he wanted.

It took time, but Henson and Tony Yates patiently cultivated relationships and earned the trust of a handful of influential CPL coaches.
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spark mandrill

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2023, 05:43:02 PM »
Seems like you're intentionally trying to obfuscate now.

The point remains: Kruger took over a program here that was not in good shape, and built the foundations of the Self era in his three years.  He did a great job, but now you're trying to remove the context from his numbers here (ignoring that he had to rebuild, and did in his three years) to pretend he was a mediocre coach.  And then you did it again at his other stops.

Florida, obviously the worst job Kruger did.  But it's not a coincidence that he took over three other high major programs in need of a rebuild, and successfully rebuilt them.  He didn't get into the CBB Hall of Fame by accident.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 05:45:01 PM by spark mandrill »
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2023, 06:39:42 PM »
In the one case, 4 years tells us nothing. In the other, Kruger was here 4 years and that was enough to tell us he did a great job.

I wonder how many college basketball coaches with 60.9% winning percentages are in the hall of fame?
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2023, 08:09:20 PM »
Jud Heathcote, who won 60% of his games, is also in the National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame.
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ThePAMan

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2023, 09:16:57 PM »
I'm just glad Underachiever finally got an Illini picked in the first round of the NBA draft....
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Somewhere in Mn

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2023, 09:19:18 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 22, 2023, 09:16:57 PM
I'm just glad Underachiever finally got an Illini picked in the first round of the NBA draft....
Lol
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Gokuwearsorange/blue

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2023, 09:25:25 PM »
"For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'."

-John Greenleaf Whittier
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FaninCa

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2023, 09:27:26 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on June 22, 2023, 09:16:57 PM
I'm just glad Underachiever finally got an Illini picked in the first round of the NBA draft....

Better chance of Podz getting minutes for Golden State than with Illinois.
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2023, 11:54:43 PM »
Quote from: FaninCa on June 22, 2023, 09:27:26 PM
Better chance of Podz getting minutes for Golden State than with Illinois.

He won't have to defend his own shadow.
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2023, 12:16:03 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 22, 2023, 05:43:02 PM


Florida, obviously the worst job Kruger did.  But it's not a coincidence that he took over three other high major programs in need of a rebuild, and successfully rebuilt them.  He didn't get into the CBB Hall of Fame by accident.

At K-State, FL, and OK-State, he built them up, then had a steep decline, and then he left. Peaks and Valleys. Quite similar to what Capel did at OK-ST. Two years before LK arrived, Capel had them in the E8. There is some context.


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spark mandrill

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2023, 09:47:48 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 22, 2023, 06:39:42 PM
In the one case, 4 years tells us nothing. In the other, Kruger was here 4 years and that was enough to tell us he did a great job.

I wonder how many college basketball coaches with 60.9% winning percentages are in the hall of fame?

Probably not that many, but more than a few because most people aren't simple enough to simply remove all context from someone's career and spout off winning percentages. 
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spark mandrill

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2023, 09:49:47 AM »
Quote from: illiniray on June 23, 2023, 12:16:03 AM
At K-State, FL, and OK-State, he built them up, then had a steep decline, and then he left. Peaks and Valleys. Quite similar to what Capel did at OK-ST. Two years before LK arrived, Capel had them in the E8. There is some context.

Oklahoma.  Not OK State.

It's funny to see you try to include 'context' now.  Yes, three years before he got there they were in the E8.  Then they went 27-36 (9-23) in the two years before he arrived.

He inherited a program in a very poor state.  As I have been saying from the beginning.  You can keep pretending otherwise, it doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know, but you sound silly.
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illiniray

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Re: rank our last 5 coaches
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2023, 10:33:15 AM »
I stand by original comments.on Lon Kruger. Upon reviewing my posts, I saw a couple obvious senior moments / brain farts. Those are going to happen.

 I know the context. He coached at historically good programs that were down. He typically built them back up, had a steep decline, and left. Not always. His overall winning percentage was not all that good.

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