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2023 2.0 Portal Thread

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Murph’s Dog

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #330 on: May 03, 2023, 04:40:41 PM »
I just don’t see the words Coleman Hawkins and NBA ever being that closely associated with each other. He was a long way from an NBA player last year.
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Custard

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #331 on: May 03, 2023, 04:44:45 PM »
Hawkins is so tentative and indecisive, can’t see that being a big selling point for a team who might otherwise take a flyer on his physical tools.
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Murph’s Dog

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #332 on: May 03, 2023, 04:53:17 PM »
Quote from: Custard on May 03, 2023, 04:44:45 PM
Hawkins is so tentative and indecisive, can’t see that being a big selling point for a team who might otherwise take a flyer on his physical tools.

That’s a pretty good point. He has “tools,” he just seems to lack confidence and consistency.
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illinicalvin

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #333 on: May 03, 2023, 04:59:30 PM »
He's getting mid/late 2nd rd looks, which seems right although the ESPN position list had him just 2 spots below Japen Wilson in terms of PFs and.... friends, that's a big gap.

Needs to come back to school or come to terms with developing in the G-League.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #334 on: May 03, 2023, 05:01:30 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on May 03, 2023, 04:59:30 PM
He's getting mid/late 2nd rd looks, which seems right although the ESPN position list had him just 2 spots below Japen Wilson in terms of PFs and.... friends, that's a big gap.

Needs to come back to school or come to terms with developing in the G-League.

I guess what I'm saying is, I sincerely doubt another year is going to really bump his draft stock up much.  Any improvement he makes will be offset by the fact that he was already an upperclassman and will be a year older.

I don't think there's much doubt that if he's NBA or bust, this is going to be the best opportunity he'll probably get.  He may be told that it's not going to happen, but if he's told that it's probably not going to happen next year either.

There was one college senior taken in the first round last year (he was an All American), and three more in the second round.  If you're 22-23 and you're not in the league yet, chances are the NBA isn't that interested.  And that's why mocks might project them close together - Hawkins is more than a year younger than Wilson.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2023, 05:04:41 PM by spark mandrill »
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ILLINICHIEF

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #335 on: May 03, 2023, 05:07:35 PM »
All valid points, I just don't think Hawk has to "help" his cause much....I think the draft class will "help" him all he needs.

I mean the 2024 draft projected class is SO WEAK that Bronny James is considered by some to be Top 10? 6'2" CG (loosely used here) Top 10?

There is no chance that Hawk and TSJ both would not move up in this draft, the talent is just weaker.
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illinicalvin

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #336 on: May 03, 2023, 05:17:06 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 03, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
I guess what I'm saying is, I sincerely doubt another year is going to really bump his draft stock up much.  Any improvement he makes will be offset by the fact that he was already an upperclassman and will be a year older.

I don't think there's much doubt that if he's NBA or bust, this is going to be the best opportunity he'll probably get.  He may be told that it's not going to happen, but if he's told that it's probably not going to happen next year either.

There was one college senior taken in the first round last year (he was an All American), and three more in the second round.  If you're 22-23 and you're not in the league yet, chances are the NBA isn't that interested.  And that's why mocks might project them close together - Hawkins is more than a year younger than Wilson.
I think the sale to Hawkins is having a second shot at being the alpha without Matt Meyer dragging down his scoring opps. It's not a great argument but it's an argument.
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Lkdog

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #337 on: May 03, 2023, 05:24:59 PM »
Quote from: ILLINICHIEF on May 03, 2023, 05:07:35 PM
All valid points, I just don't think Hawk has to "help" his cause much....I think the draft class will "help" him all he needs.

I mean the 2024 draft projected class is SO WEAK that Bronny James is considered by some to be Top 10? 6'2" CG (loosely used here) Top 10?

There is no chance that Hawk and TSJ both would not move up in this draft, the talent is just weaker.

Mock drafts for next June are pretty worthless. Way too many unknowns.
If either of these guys gets a solid commitment from a team to get picked in 2nd round and get a contract of any kind, they are gone.
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Lkdog

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #338 on: May 03, 2023, 05:28:26 PM »
Quote from: illinicalvin on May 03, 2023, 05:17:06 PM
I think the sale to Hawkins is having a second shot at being the alpha without Matt Meyer dragging down his scoring opps. It's not a great argument but it's an argument.

Maybe. He seemed either afraid to drive, or afraid to shoot, or he took ill advised shots.
Has to show a consistent scoring game in college, or the summer NBA league, or the G league to make a roster.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #339 on: May 03, 2023, 07:17:32 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on May 03, 2023, 05:24:59 PM
Mock drafts for next June are pretty worthless. Way too many unknowns.
If either of these guys gets a solid commitment from a team to get picked in 2nd round and get a contract of any kind, they are gone.

And IMO they should be gone in that scenario.
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ILLINICHIEF

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #340 on: May 03, 2023, 07:20:14 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on May 03, 2023, 05:24:59 PM
Mock drafts for next June are pretty worthless. Way too many unknowns.
If either of these guys gets a solid commitment from a team to get picked in 2nd round and get a contract of any kind, they are gone.

That's the issue, Grandpa Hawkins has maturity issues, I doubt he would be guaranteed more than the 2 years and average pay of $$1,579,416 to $952,995. TSJ could conceivably get more of a guaranteed based on playing style/etc....but even then the team that drafts him can pay him league minimum or anything from 1-4 years and with fully guaranteed or none at all. At this stage both may fall into the NONE at all category?

Final pick in 1st Rd gets approx $3-500,000. more than the highest average of a 2nd rounder and it is for 4 years with minimum 2 years fully guaranteed.

I think both of ours guys could easily get from projected 35-50 range as of now into that 25-30 range next year. More $$$, more guaranteed.
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Dominic

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #341 on: May 03, 2023, 07:44:04 PM »
Quote from: Custard on May 03, 2023, 04:44:45 PM
Hawkins is so tentative and indecisive, can’t see that being a big selling point for a team who might otherwise take a flyer on his physical tools.

Hawkins should look at Dawson Garcia as a similar player whose draft chances got worse by coming back to college.
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Dominic

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #342 on: May 03, 2023, 07:48:30 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 03, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
I guess what I'm saying is, I sincerely doubt another year is going to really bump his draft stock up much.  Any improvement he makes will be offset by the fact that he was already an upperclassman and will be a year older.

I don't think there's much doubt that if he's NBA or bust, this is going to be the best opportunity he'll probably get.  He may be told that it's not going to happen, but if he's told that it's probably not going to happen next year either.

There was one college senior taken in the first round last year (he was an All American), and three more in the second round.  If you're 22-23 and you're not in the league yet, chances are the NBA isn't that interested.  And that's why mocks might project them close together - Hawkins is more than a year younger than Wilson.

Also being undrafted and older isn’t a death sentence for a career.

Fred VanVleet and Austin Reaves are gonna be near paid a ton.  In fact Reaves will be making far more money as an undrafted player when he’s a RFA than Ayo will get who was a 2nd rounder.

I think the success of Fred and Austin, although clearly anomalies, are going to play into the decisions that even if I don’t get picked in the 2nd round I’ll still go for my career
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #343 on: May 03, 2023, 08:29:04 PM »
Quote from: ILLINICHIEF on May 03, 2023, 07:20:14 PM
That's the issue, Grandpa Hawkins has maturity issues, I doubt he would be guaranteed more than the 2 years and average pay of $$1,579,416 to $952,995. TSJ could conceivably get more of a guaranteed based on playing style/etc....but even then the team that drafts him can pay him league minimum or anything from 1-4 years and with fully guaranteed or none at all. At this stage both may fall into the NONE at all category?

Final pick in 1st Rd gets approx $3-500,000. more than the highest average of a 2nd rounder and it is for 4 years with minimum 2 years fully guaranteed.

I think both of ours guys could easily get from projected 35-50 range as of now into that 25-30 range next year. More $$$, more guaranteed.

Neither of these guys is going to be a first round draft pick whether they go now or next year.

If either guy got offered a 2 year/1.9m contract he would be ridiculously dumb to pass on it.
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ThePAMan

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Re: 2023 2.0 Portal Thread
« Reply #344 on: May 04, 2023, 10:00:45 AM »
Hunter Dickinson to Kansas, per The ESPN.
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