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do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

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Murph’s Dog

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #690 on: May 24, 2023, 04:23:32 PM »
Sorry for defending you, I guess.

That post to PAMan you got 100% right.

Are you really going to dismiss that you seem a little sensitive to criticism of Underwood or the program?

You don’t think losing out on a suburban kid you could desperately use whose never even played at a high major is cause for even a slight temporary bit of embarrassment?
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #691 on: May 24, 2023, 04:24:07 PM »
Sorry for defending you, I guess.

Would've thought you learned this lesson already.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Murph’s Dog

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #692 on: May 24, 2023, 04:24:54 PM »
You seriously seem to think even the slightest criticisms equal pitchfork screams to fire the coach.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #693 on: May 24, 2023, 04:25:49 PM »
You seriously seem to think even the slightest criticisms equal pitchfork screams to fire the coach.

He's a big fan of Regular Season B1G Title banners.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #694 on: May 24, 2023, 04:26:12 PM »
Careful with the word “should’ve.” As I said previously, toe stubbings happen. Doesn’t mean no one sees them, they aren’t painful or embarrassing. And god forbid Underwood get even a tiny bit of criticism over losing a local kid whose never played at a high major.

By all means, criticize Underwood for missing a kid he spent a ton of time and resources on, that's totally fair.

The idea that he deserves extra criticism because the kid's from Oswego and has been at a mid-major is what I took issue with, because that's silly and is based entirely on an assumption that an Oswego kid must have some kind of special fondness for Illinois basketball - even though Illinois basketball has been mediocre as hell for most of his life.

I will say, I worked in a high school athletic department during the Groce era.  Even had one of our kids play at Illinois.  I did not notice any particular affinity among the kids for Illinois basketball.  A few of them followed it; most didn't anymore.  The big basketball heads I knew followed a little, but they were more into the teams in the tournament every year - the Kansas' and Kentuckys and Gonzagas.  Obviously a big difference from when I was in high school.  But it makes some kind of sense - Illinois has not been good during these kids' lives until very recently.

You look at this from the perspective of someone from your background and never consider that maybe someone who DIDN'T come of age in the 80's and 90's would view Illinois basketball quite differently than you do.

From the time RayJ Dennis was 5 years old until we hired Underwood when he was 16, Illinois made the NCAA tournament three times.  He almost certainly does not remember Illinois ever being in the Sweet 16.  That's a very, very different program than the one you and I were looking at when we were 16.

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ThePAMan

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #695 on: May 24, 2023, 04:26:38 PM »
That post to PAMan you got 100% right.

Are you really going to dismiss that you seem a little sensitive to criticism of Underwood or the program?

You don’t think losing out on a suburban kid you could desperately use whose never even played at a high major is cause for even a slight temporary bit of embarrassment?

Especially when he was, allegedly, offered more money to play here?
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Murph’s Dog

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #696 on: May 24, 2023, 04:26:43 PM »
Would've thought you learned this lesson already.

Ooooh, you got that ankle good that time! Sick ‘em boy!

Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #697 on: May 24, 2023, 04:28:00 PM »
You seriously seem to think even the slightest criticisms equal pitchfork screams to fire the coach.

Nope, but no matter what I say you're going to tell me what I think and argue with that anyway so have at it.

I even think Underwood deserves criticism for this - will deserve a lot if we don't pull a solid backup option.  I just don't agree with your reasons to criticize him.

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ThePAMan

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #698 on: May 24, 2023, 04:28:39 PM »
The big basketball heads I knew followed a little, but they were more into the teams in the tournament every year - the Kansas' and Kentuckys and Gonzagas.

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From the time RayJ Dennis was 5 years old until we hired Underwood when he was 16, Illinois made the NCAA tournament three times.  He almost certainly does not remember Illinois ever being in the Sweet 16...

You don't say.....
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #699 on: May 24, 2023, 04:29:25 PM »
That post to PAMan you got 100% right.

Are you really going to dismiss that you seem a little sensitive to criticism of Underwood or the program?

You don’t think losing out on a suburban kid you could desperately use whose never even played at a high major is cause for even a slight temporary bit of embarrassment?

I have said since the very first post on this, I think it's pretty shitty any time a coach loses a kid he put a ton of time and resources into.  I don't think how bad it is depends on what school he's transferring from or where he went to high school.  If we'd spent the same amount of resources on a kid who grew up in Los Angeles and played last year at Duke and he went to Utah, it would feel the exact same as if RayJ does.

What sucks is that we put a lot of eggs in the basket of a talented kid and it seems like he isn't going to play for us.  Beyond that, I can't really make a judgment because of the large amount of information and context I'd need to discern why he might make that decision, I (and you) have exactly 0 of it.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 04:31:25 PM by spark mandrill »

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ThePAMan

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #700 on: May 24, 2023, 04:30:10 PM »
Ooooh, you got that ankle good that time! Sick ‘em boy!



He already knows how disingenuous you are, yet he keeps playing it straight instead of just telling you that you are an idiot.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"

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Murph’s Dog

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #701 on: May 24, 2023, 04:31:13 PM »
If you think people in the basketball world (coaches, AAU people, reporters etc not just “fans”) aren’t looking at a Rayj situation and thinking “oh man, that’s gotta hurt…” you aren’t living in the real world. The landscape is not as homogenized as you are pretending it is. There is definitely a correlation between where a kid grows up and where he might want to play. It doesn’t mean that correlation is 100% predictive. It’s not even close to that. But it’s there and it’s often a factor.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #702 on: May 24, 2023, 04:32:06 PM »
If you think people in the basketball world (coaches, AAU people, reporters etc not just “fans”) aren’t looking at a Rayj situation and thinking “oh man, that’s gotta hurt…” you aren’t living in the real world. The landscape is not as homogenized as you are pretending it is. There is definitely a correlation between where a kid grows up and where he might want to play. It doesn’t mean that correlation is 100% predictive. It’s not even close to that.

Of course it hurts.  We spent a ton of time and effort recruiting him.

It doesn't hurt more because he went to HS in Oswego or played at a couple mid-majors, though.

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Murph’s Dog

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #703 on: May 24, 2023, 04:32:30 PM »
He already knows how disingenuous you are, yet he keeps playing it straight instead of just telling you that you are an idiot.

And yet he continuously calls you an idiot. Maybe he’s just a super truth teller.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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ThePAMan

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #704 on: May 24, 2023, 04:33:53 PM »
And yet he continuously calls you an idiot. Maybe he’s just a super truth teller.

Appears to be his character flaw.
Mark Carman: "The Whitlock!...Caleb Williams failed Wayne Whitlock." Been told I need to take my dick out my mouth so maybe I "wont [sic] sound like such a fucking faggot all the time[.]"