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do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #600 on: May 24, 2023, 09:58:24 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 24, 2023, 09:55:11 AM
I wasn't comparing the programs either, I simply took the example you gave and used it to show that your thought process is silly.  Switch it to UNC, if you don't like the example you used.

I must have just not taken into account the Scope!

You absolutely were “comparing” them. You lowered Illinois’ expectations down to DePaul and NU. That’s EXACTLY what you attempted to do. Soft-landing.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #601 on: May 24, 2023, 09:59:31 AM »
This reminds me of when Spark mocked me for using the term “pocket presence,” even though everyone who evaluates quarterbacks understands what that term means, and uses it.
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #602 on: May 24, 2023, 10:01:47 AM »
I don't remember that, but if you use a term you can't define and when asked to define it you say "you just know, it just is", then yeah, I'm going to mock you for that.
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #603 on: May 24, 2023, 10:02:18 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 24, 2023, 09:58:24 AM
You absolutely were “comparing” them. You lowered Illinois’ expectations down to DePaul and NU. That’s EXACTLY what you attempted to do. Soft-landing.

Well, when you find the Tempo who made the post bringing up NU and DePaul as analogs for this situation, tell him you thought it was stupid.

In a similar way, I have raised Illinois' expectations up to UNC!  You just, again, ignore it when you can't make up something to argue against it.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #604 on: May 24, 2023, 10:08:57 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 24, 2023, 09:38:32 AM
I laugh at all your strawmen, yeah.  Have literally never had a discussion with you that didn't end with you just telling me my opinion and beating the shit out of it.  What I actually think has simply never been of value to you, you seem to think it's legitimately irrelevant to discussions I take part in.

What's particularly funny is how mad you get - rightfully so - when people do the stupid Reggie Theus shit.  You know it sucks when people just make up your argument and beat it up rather than listening to what you say.  But you do that to me literally every single time we talk.  You still do it, JUST like they do with Reggie Theus, about stuff I've explained dozens of times for years.  Just make up something instead.

You've never, ever, been capable of reading a post and accurately pulling out someone's point, so you simply make up a point and argue against it.


Again, how is lowering the expectations down to NU and DePaul’s standard “not comparing” them? Because that’s exactly what you did.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #605 on: May 24, 2023, 10:10:29 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 24, 2023, 09:45:55 AM
It was Andrew Bogut.  He went two picks in front of our All American.  Milwaukee must not have known about the scope.  No way they thought the best player on Utah tended to be better than the best player on Illinois.

And you claim I’m the only one using disingenuous debate techniques…
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #606 on: May 24, 2023, 10:11:54 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 24, 2023, 10:10:29 AM
And you claim I’m the only one using disingenuous debate techniques…

Hahahahaha, yes.  You can see it when someone uses your own 'logic' against you, but somehow miss that when you type it out.

If you think I typed that because it's a thing I actually believe, you're even further behind than I thought you were.
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #607 on: May 24, 2023, 10:12:28 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 24, 2023, 10:08:57 AM


Again, how is lowering the expectations down to NU and DePaul’s standard “not comparing” them? Because that’s exactly what you did.

I also compared them to UNC!

Which you know because you've read the thread and aren't just cherry picking half of what I say to make up a strawman and beat it up!
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #608 on: May 24, 2023, 10:12:53 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 24, 2023, 09:51:35 AM
I'd like to know what we're discussing specifically when we talk about 'scope'.  Brand?  Yeah, Illinois definitely has a higher profile brand than Utah.  They also have a higher profile brand than a lot of schools that have had similar or more success to them.  I am not and never have been talking about their brand, I am talking about their program.

They also have a higher profile brand and bigger "scope" than, say, Gonzaga - but I'd understand if a kid picked Gonzaga over Illinois.

Yes, “brand” would have been a better word. “Higher profile” would
Have worked better as well. But you’re a smart guy, I thought you’d get my drift.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #609 on: May 24, 2023, 10:14:19 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 24, 2023, 10:12:53 AM
Yes, “brand” would have been a better word. “Higher profile” would
Have worked better as well. But you’re a smart guy, I thought you’d get my drift.

It's just tangential to the programs' historical success, which is what I was talking about.  It's a deflection.

A brand does not make a program.  If it did we'd have a title and UConn wouldn't have five.

In terms of brand reach, Forbes says we have a bigger/more valuable brand than UCLA, but I hope you wouldn't agree we've been a similar program to UCLA historically.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 10:16:39 AM by spark mandrill »
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #610 on: May 24, 2023, 10:16:29 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 24, 2023, 09:53:04 AM
I simply borrowed the comparison you made.  If it was a stupid comparison, you shouldn't have made it.

Switch it to UNC.  Point is exactly the same, as you've already ignored a bunch of times.

Honest question:  is Illinois more similar to UNC as a program, or to Utah?

In between. Illinois I’d say is closer to Syracuse than a true blue blood like UNC. Utah is one of the most successful midmajor programs ever, but literally almost no one cares. No one even sees them until Tournament time.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #611 on: May 24, 2023, 10:17:26 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 24, 2023, 10:14:19 AM
It's just tangential to the programs' historical success, which is what I was talking about.  It's a deflection.

A brand does not make a program.  If it did we'd have a title and UConn wouldn't have five.

In terms of brand reach, Forbes says we have a bigger/more valuable brand than UCLA, but I hope you wouldn't agree we've been a similar program to UCLA historically.

If the 2005 team played for Utah, almost no one would have seen them until tournament time.
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spark mandrill

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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #612 on: May 24, 2023, 10:17:37 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 24, 2023, 10:16:29 AM
In between. Illinois I’d say is closer to Syracuse than a true blue blood like UNC. Utah is one of the most successful midmajor programs ever, but literally almost no one cares. No one even sees them until Tournament time.

Of course they're in between, I'm asking which they're closer to.  UNC or Utah?

In terms of brand value, it's UNC.  In terms of historical success it's Utah and it isn't particularly close.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #613 on: May 24, 2023, 10:18:33 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 24, 2023, 09:59:31 AM
This reminds me of when Spark mocked me for using the term “pocket presence,” even though everyone who evaluates quarterbacks understands what that term means, and uses it.

Spark has 5 days left.  Then this cancer is gone.
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Re: do illinois loyalty "insiders" actually have info
« Reply #614 on: May 24, 2023, 10:18:40 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 24, 2023, 10:11:54 AM
Hahahahaha, yes.  You can see it when someone uses your own 'logic' against you, but somehow miss that when you type it out.

If you think I typed that because it's a thing I actually believe, you're even further behind than I thought you were.

By lowering Illinois’ expectations to that of DePaul and NU, you did indeed “compare them.” If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you.
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