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Poll

Illinois be ASU

ASU is an equal program to Illinois
11 (68.8%)
Illinois provides a competitive advantage
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 26, 2023, 11:18:32 AM

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Show of hands

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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #300 on: April 21, 2023, 12:50:18 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 11:39:41 AM
And again. You’re the data guy. But refuse to accept the data that says over the last 40+ years Illinois is a superior program over a large handful of coaches. ASU and Illinois have not been on level playing fields, just as Illinois and Kentucky are not on level playing fields. Now, could you convince me that the gap has closed somewhat? Yes. You could.

Saying “Kentucky and Illinois aren’t on even playing fields!” In order to justify a claim that John Calipari and Bruce Weber are comparable coaches would be really stupid, wouldn’t it?
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #301 on: April 21, 2023, 12:50:29 PM »
And the doubling down starts in 3.....2......1....

He beat me to it.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #302 on: April 21, 2023, 12:51:33 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 20, 2023, 03:04:50 PM
Can you please explain to me how I’m “lying?”

Here’s what happened. You made that case that Trubisky “is more or less on par with Mahomes” (even if through just 5 games). I said: “stop with that nonsense, Mahomes is clearly better!” You said:”Not according to the statistics.” I said: “I don’t give a damn what the statistics say, Mahomes is way better.”

Contrary to your accusation, I never once said you said that Trubisky was better than Mahomes. I merely pointed out that comparing the two in any way was dumb, and you took exception to it. That’s why we argued about it.

Here’s the post I replied to.  In it, you will find two separate quotes attributed to me that I did not say.  They are the only two quotes attributed to me. That is called lying.

You said “please explain to me how I’m lying”, and then laid out a conversation in direct quotes that never occurred.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #303 on: April 21, 2023, 12:51:37 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 21, 2023, 12:48:40 PM
You simply didn’t understand my point - the only point I was ever making - about how silly it is to judge a QB, good or bad, by his first 15-20 games.

I’m curious - if you were me, how many years would you continue repeating the same obvious, simple point hoping maybe THIS TIME the other guy will get it?  I’m on year 6.  I think I’m pretty much done trying to explain a simple point to you.

I would definitely appreciate if you’d quit lying about things I didn’t say to try to win an argument, but if you won’t I’m happy to make up all sorts of bullshit about you and pass it off as fact.

So you were just trying to teach me something? You weren’t trying to prop up Trubisky or Nagy? In the least?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2023, 12:53:31 PM by Tempo34 »
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #304 on: April 21, 2023, 12:53:05 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 21, 2023, 12:51:33 PM
Here’s the post I replied to.  In it, you will find two separate quotes attributed to me that I did not say.  They are the only two quotes attributed to me. That is called lying.

Ok. Tell me exactly what you said then. Because you used stats to show how Trubisky was pretty much playing as well as Mahomes. Forget how I remember it. What specifically did YOU say?
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #305 on: April 21, 2023, 12:53:26 PM »
If he were a papist, The Pope would make Spark a saint.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #306 on: April 21, 2023, 12:53:43 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 12:51:37 PM
So you just trying to teach me something? You weren’t trying to prop up Trubisky or Nagy? In the least?

I mean, I didn’t mince words, equivocate, or hide my point - initially, or in the six years after - that it was stupid to judge a guy, good or bad, after his first 20 games.  That’s been my point since day 1, and is still a totally valid point.  Your insistence on misrepresenting it simply isn’t my problem, Tempo.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #307 on: April 21, 2023, 12:55:05 PM »
I’m about 99% sure I’ve portrayed what happened accurately. Saying “stop lying” doesn’t help me see where I went wrong.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #308 on: April 21, 2023, 12:55:55 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 12:53:05 PM
Ok. Tell me exactly what you said then. Because you used stats to show how Trubisky was pretty much playing as well as Mahomes. Forget how I remember it. What specifically did YOU say?

I said look, after you crowned Mahomes and trashed Trubisky because of their results in a tiny sample size, Trubisky has outplayed Mahomes over the last five weeks - so maybe we should let guys’ careers play out before we rush to judgment, good or bad.

Was what I said then, and what I’m saying now.  Has literally never changed through your literal years of lying and misrepresenting it.  It is and always was about making holistic judgments one way or the other with a tiny sample size.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #309 on: April 21, 2023, 12:56:25 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on April 21, 2023, 12:53:43 PM
I mean, I didn’t mince words, equivocate, or hide my point - initially, or in the six years after - that it was stupid to judge a guy, good or bad, after his first 20 games.  That’s been my point since day 1, and is still a totally valid point.  Your insistence on misrepresenting it simply isn’t my problem, Tempo.

Again. My main point in that “debate” was that Mahomes was the far superior quarterback. And that trying to compare them using numbers was dumb. I think that stance has held up quite well.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #310 on: April 21, 2023, 12:57:16 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 12:55:05 PM
I’m about 99% sure I’ve portrayed what happened accurately. Saying “stop lying” doesn’t help me see where I went wrong.

You can be sure of whatever you want.  If that’s how you took it I guess my simple point was too complex for you?  I could not have possibly made it any clearer, then or any number of times since.  You simply move on and misrepresent it again next time it comes up.

And it’s fine, but if you’re going to lie about others to win arguments then you should stop whining when others do it to you.
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spark mandrill

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #311 on: April 21, 2023, 12:58:39 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 12:56:25 PM
Again. My main point in that “debate” was that Mahomes was the far superior quarterback. And that trying to compare them using numbers was dumb. I think that stance has held up quite well.

If your main point was totally irrelevant to the discussion I’d started, and you used that to misrepresent my views for years - is that your issue? Or mine?

Would it be fair to judge Justin Fields based on his production thus far?  He’s played more games than either Trubisky or Mahomes had when this discussion took place.
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ThePAMan

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #312 on: April 21, 2023, 12:59:14 PM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on April 21, 2023, 12:55:05 PM
I’m about 99% sure I’ve portrayed what happened accurately. Saying “stop lying” doesn’t help me see where I went wrong.

There is a large sample size of this happening though.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #313 on: April 21, 2023, 12:59:29 PM »
Again. It doesn’t matter what the stats through 5 weeks said. It was clear Mahomes was the better player. That’s the only point I ever made. It’s 10x more obvious now than it was even then. I don’t see how I’m the one who comes out looking stupid on this one.
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Reacher

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Re: Show of hands
« Reply #314 on: April 21, 2023, 01:01:46 PM »
Quote from: ThePAMan on April 21, 2023, 12:59:14 PM
There is a large sample size of this happening though.

Your “opinion” is virtually meaningless. Go hang out at the deuce, where you have some value.
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