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2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #570 on: April 18, 2023, 08:32:20 PM »
I don't see why comparable high major coaches taking over comparable rebuilds would have such disparate results, no - can you explain it to me without acting like it's just a truism?

One of the two guys took over a program with a previous four year record of 70-61 (34-38), one NCAA appearance and no wins, two NIT appearances.

The other took over a program with a previous four year record of 73-65 (29-43), no NCAA appearances, three NIT appearances.

Because they are not comparable programs. I’ll admit Kentucky/Calipari is an extreme example. But let’s say Rick Pitino two months ago had been offered Illinois and Oregon State? Which one do you think he’s taking? I’m thinking there’s a 98% chance it’s Illinois.
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #571 on: April 18, 2023, 08:33:49 PM »
Calipari went to the Final Four at the University of Massachussetts and Memphis.


Correct. And yet he still left several successful programs for better gigs.
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Bridging the Gap

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #572 on: April 18, 2023, 08:34:29 PM »
Why do you think Self left Illinois for Kansas? It wasn’t just money.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

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No one in Mn

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #573 on: April 18, 2023, 08:34:44 PM »
Underwood makes $2 million more than Hurley and more than any Pac 12 coach.
Hurley is 6th in the Pac 12. Underwood is 7th in the country.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #574 on: April 18, 2023, 08:36:07 PM »
Why do you think Self left Illinois for Kansas? It wasn’t just money.

Because KU let him 'play the game' the way he wanted, he was from the area, started his career there as an assistant, and it's a blue blood program that was coming off another Hall of Fame coach and the cupboard was full.  Wasn't some huge secret.

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #575 on: April 18, 2023, 08:37:37 PM »
Correct. And yet he still left several successful programs for better gigs.

But he totally undercuts your point about how a given coach's results will be notably better at 'bigger' or 'better' schools.  Like, he was about the worst possible example you could've given.

His results have been consistent everywhere he's been.  Didn't matter if he was at a Buffalo type school (UMass) or an Arizona State type school (Memphis) or a blue blood like UK.

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #576 on: April 18, 2023, 08:40:09 PM »
Because they are not comparable programs. I’ll admit Kentucky/Calipari is an extreme example. But let’s say Rick Pitino two months ago had been offered Illinois and Oregon State? Which one do you think he’s taking? I’m thinking there’s a 98% chance it’s Illinois.

So you can't explain it without pretending it's a truism.  "it's just true".

Calipari was an extreme example in that I couldn't have possibly picked a better example to undercut your point.  He's the exact opposite of what you're claiming.  He's had similarly good results everywhere he's coached, from mid-majors to blue bloods.

I have no idea which one Rick Pitino would take, but that's not the discussion we're having either.  I know you do this "why would anyone pass up Illinois?" thing every single time we have a coaching search and have typically ended up with that looking pretty silly, though.  Why would Brad Stevens pass on Illinois to stay at Butler, or Shaka Smart to stay at VCU?  Because it's not 1988 or 2001.

Do you think Rick Pitino would definitely have better results at Illinois than at Oregon State simply because Illinois has a better history?  I don't.  I think Pitino is likely to have similar success at either place, because he's a good coach.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2023, 08:49:37 PM by spark mandrill »

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Dominic

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #577 on: April 18, 2023, 08:43:02 PM »
Underwood makes $2 million more than Hurley and more than any Pac 12 coach.
Hurley is 6th in the Pac 12. Underwood is 7th in the country.

Good point.  Hurley is the far better value.

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #578 on: April 18, 2023, 08:44:36 PM »
True.  Why pay real money for tournament appearances every year when you can get a guy who makes it once every three or four years for way cheaper?

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #579 on: April 18, 2023, 08:45:47 PM »
It's wild that you guys let this moron Truth dictate the narrative on Underwood.

He's like "just pretend Kofi didn't play for him and Hurley's way better!" and Tempo's like "ayup, must be comparable!"

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #580 on: April 18, 2023, 08:48:21 PM »
Pitino, BTW, another guy who has been good no matter where he's coached.  Was good at UK - but was also good at Louisville.  Was good at Providence, was good at Iona.  Was good at Boston University.  Will probably be good at St. John's.

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Dominic

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #581 on: April 18, 2023, 08:50:20 PM »
True.  Why pay real money for tournament appearances every year when you can get a guy who makes it once every three or four years for way cheaper?

If I’m paying the 7th highest salary in the country, I expect the 7th best results. 

Otherwise you are wasting money

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Dominic

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #582 on: April 18, 2023, 08:52:22 PM »
It's wild that you guys let this moron Truth dictate the narrative on Underwood.

He's like "just pretend Kofi didn't play for him and Hurley's way better!" and Tempo's like "ayup, must be comparable!"

GENE CHIZIK:CAM NEWTON
BRAD UNDERWOOD: KOFI COCKBURN

Seems easily comparable to me.

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Bridging the Gap

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #583 on: April 18, 2023, 08:52:39 PM »
Because KU let him 'play the game' the way he wanted, he was from the area, started his career there as an assistant, and it's a blue blood program that was coming off another Hall of Fame coach and the cupboard was full.  Wasn't some huge secret.

Translation: Better gig. Illinois is a better gig than ASU. Anyone outside of an ASU alum or homer will tell you so.
Tempo34: “I want dignity and equality of opportunity for all, a higher standard of living for all, and healthcare for all.”

Judge Judy: “You are an extremist.”

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 PORTAL TRACKING THREAD
« Reply #584 on: April 18, 2023, 08:53:10 PM »
GENE CHIZIK:CAM NEWTON
BRAD UNDERWOOD: KOFI COCKBURN

Seems easily comparable to me.

Of course it does, because you're very, very stupid.