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2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #270 on: May 09, 2023, 10:51:36 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 09, 2023, 10:50:50 AM
Half of those teams were not taking him regardless Spark. What do you not understand here? He’s not Connor Bedard.

He was sold as a generational talent all year.  Let's not pretend he wasn't, please.  He was compared to Warren Sapp and Aaron Donald consistently.

ALL of those teams were not taking him regardless, including the Bears - obviously, since they all had the opportunity to take him and passed.  8 of them did it for free, one of them got a pick for it.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #271 on: May 09, 2023, 10:52:28 AM »
Meaning he wasn’t the #1 prospect on everyone’s board. And he doesn’t play quarterback, which makes a big difference. Indy wasn’t taking him. Carolina wasn’t taking him. Houston probably wasn’t taking him.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #272 on: May 09, 2023, 10:53:48 AM »
Seattle wasn't taking him.  Arizona wasn't, Las Vegas wasn't.  Atlanta wasn't and Chicago wasn't.

One of those teams got paid not to take him.  The rest did it for free.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #273 on: May 09, 2023, 10:57:14 AM »
By the 9th pick he was clearly the best talent left. All of the other picks can be justified. Raiders went with extremely high upside/better character. Seattle went best CB in draft. Arizona chose to invest in Kyler Murray and try to salvage their investment in him.

By #9 Carter was far and away the most talented player and an obvious fit for the Bears talent/scheme wise. This isn’t controversial. You’re wrong on this one.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #274 on: May 09, 2023, 10:58:50 AM »
Atlanta passed on him because they are a losing organization. If you want to grill them, feel free.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #275 on: May 09, 2023, 10:59:33 AM »
He was, by all accounts, among the top 2-3 talents in the draft.  So by the 3rd or 4th pick, he was the most talented player left - if not the 1st pick.

EVERYONE passed on him and got the guy they wanted instead.  8 of them did it for free, 1 got paid.  To criticize the one guy who actually got something in return for him instead of the guys in front of him who did it for free is so self evidently stupid that fucking of course you buy it.

Meatball shit is like one of those fly zapper lights to you.  Drawn in so consistently by self evidently poor emotional logic.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #276 on: May 09, 2023, 11:00:21 AM »
Again, Carter wasn’t the “consensus” #1. He was certainly #1 on his share of boards, but at least 3 teams were passing on him even without the character concerns.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #277 on: May 09, 2023, 11:00:42 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 09, 2023, 10:58:50 AM
Atlanta passed on him because they are a losing organization. If you want to grill them, feel free.

8 teams passed on him.  If you want to say "there were one or two more talented players so those guys weren't passing" then fine, 6 teams passed on him.

All six got the guys they actually wanted Five did it for free.  One got paid to do it.  You're justifying criticizing the only guy who got paid to take the prospect he actually wanted.  It's fucking insanity on its face, the purest meatball NFL nonsense.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #278 on: May 09, 2023, 11:03:01 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 09, 2023, 11:00:21 AM
Again, Carter wasn’t the “consensus” #1. He was certainly #1 on his share of boards, but at least 3 teams were passing on him even without the character concerns.

Consensus top-3, absolutely.  Sold as the most talented prospect pretty much 100% of the time until the accident stuff came out.  Agree?


I love this revising history thing, it's hilarious.  It's a thin line you're trying to walk.  "He wasn't so talented that it didn't make sense for the first 8 teams to pass on him, but he's such a talent that the 9th team (who also didn't want him) getting paid to pass on him is worthy of criticism."

He's either an uber-talent, or he's not.  If he's an uber-talent, then the teams in front of the Bears are surely more worthy of criticism - they passed on him without even getting paid to do it!    That's the best case scenario for you, because if he's not an uber-talent, then getting paid to not take a guy you didn't even want is an even better move. Seems like your evaluation of his talent changes depending on which way you want to argue.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #279 on: May 09, 2023, 11:03:33 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 09, 2023, 10:59:33 AM
He was, by all accounts, among the top 2-3 talents in the draft.  So by the 3rd or 4th pick, he was the most talented player left - if not the 1st pick.

EVERYONE passed on him and got the guy they wanted instead.  8 of them did it for free, 1 got paid.  To criticize the one guy who actually got something in return for him instead of the guys in front of him who did it for free is so self evidently stupid that fucking of course you buy it.

Meatball shit is like one of those fly zapper lights to you.  Drawn in so consistently by self evidently poor emotional logic.

Again….at least 1/3 of the teams picking in front of the Bears were drafting a QB. Which is completely and utterly defensible. Then you start wading the talent/risk waters and things get murkier. By #9 there was zero question who the best talent left on the board was. If not for the character concerns he’s was the obvious choice/fit for the Bears (even more than other teams). I’m not going to argue this with you all day. You either understand this or you don’t.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #280 on: May 09, 2023, 11:04:47 AM »
No, I don’t agree. Will Anderson was #1 on more boards I would guess based on my recollection.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #281 on: May 09, 2023, 11:07:13 AM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on May 09, 2023, 11:03:01 AM
Consensus top-3, absolutely.  Sold as the most talented prospect pretty much 100% of the time until the accident stuff came out.  Agree?


I love this revising history thing, it's hilarious.  It's a thin line you're trying to walk.  "He wasn't so talented that it didn't make sense for the first 8 teams to pass on him, but he's such a talent that the 9th team (who also didn't want him) getting paid to pass on him is worthy of criticism."

He's either an uber-talent, or he's not.  If he's an uber-talent, then the teams in front of the Bears are surely more worthy of criticism - they passed on him without even getting paid to do it!    That's the best case scenario for you, because if he's not an uber-talent, then getting paid to not take a guy you didn't even want is an even better move. Seems like your evaluation of his talent changes depending on which way you want to argue.

About 4-5 “Uber talents” (non QBs) went before Carter as well. For the 3rd time, he’s not the Connor Bedard of this draft. No one was. That’s why a 5’10 QB went #1 and a QB who apparently can’t spell cat went #2.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #282 on: May 09, 2023, 11:08:54 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 09, 2023, 11:03:33 AM
Again….at least 1/3 of the teams picking in front of the Bears were drafting a QB. Which is completely and utterly defensible. Then you start wading the talent/risk waters and things get murkier. By #9 there was zero question who the best talent left on the board was. If not for the character concerns he’s was the obvious choice/fit for the Bears (even more than other teams). I’m not going to argue this with you all day. You either understand this or you don’t.


I understand it perfectly:  you're the same meatball you've always been, prone to obviously faulty logic to justify your emotional reactions.

If there was any question when the first pick was on the clock - which is certainly debatable - Carter was definitely considered the top talent left by pick #5 or 6.  Every one of those teams passed on him for free.  If Carter is a stud, every one of those GMs is far more worthy of criticism than Poles - and that's 'granting' your point about QBs and talented CB/DE.  They passed on Carter too, but didn't even get paid to do it.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #283 on: May 09, 2023, 11:10:37 AM »
Quote from: Tempo34 on May 09, 2023, 11:07:13 AM
About 4-5 “Uber talents” (non QBs) went before Carter as well. For the 3rd time, he’s not the Connor Bedard of this draft. No one was. That’s why a 5’10 QB went #1 and a QB who apparently can’t spell cat went #2.

This narrative fully changed after the accident stuff came out, surely you're willing to acknowledge that?

EVERYONE said Carter was the easy top talent in this draft for a year or two before that came out.  Please don't pretend they didn't.  He was The Guy for a long time in this draft, until character concerns popped up.
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Reacher

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Re: 2023 Chicago Bears thread (new)
« Reply #284 on: May 09, 2023, 11:10:44 AM »
If he was the runaway top prospect, he would have went higher. There were 7-8 players other teams felt had similar upside with less risk. After that, no one was particularly close.
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"He commented more than once that, 'You know, Hitler did some good things, too,'" Kelly recalled to The Times. Kelly said he would usually quash the conversation by saying "nothing (Hitler) did, you could argue, was good," but that Trump would occasionally bring up the topic again.
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