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2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations

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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2023, 03:36:58 PM »
It 'comes with the territory' to some degree, but there are also lots of places who have had an awful lot more recent success than we have where they wouldn't look at a clear upward trajectory from his hiring and be thinking about firing him.

We have the expectations of a blue blood but without the recent success and advantages of being a Kentucky or Kansas.  It's a thin line to walk, for sure.

I of course agree that you can't keep a guy forever who can't win in March, but he's really been upset once in March.  He lost two other tournament games where he was an underdog.  That's a pretty damn small sample of evidence that he 'can't win in March'.  Lots of coaches have had worse 7 year stretches to start their tenures at a school and ended up great, including one whose name is on our court.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2023, 04:02:50 PM by spark mandrill »
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frankiew

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2023, 03:41:26 PM »
But he's also the 7th highest paid coach in the country.  At some point you have to show why

Also. Almost 20 years since we made a sweet 16? Geez
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2023, 03:43:21 PM »
I assume he's paid well because he took over a program in the dumpster, with an empty cupboard, who hadn't been thought of by anyone outside of our fanbase in 15 years, who had made 3 tournaments in a decade, and turned us into a program that's nationally relevant, has spent time in each of the last four seasons ranked in the top-20, and has been a tournament team four straight years.

That kind of success is going to get anybody paid well.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2023, 03:57:33 PM »
Looking at the top-15 highest paid coaches:

#1, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #14 have not made a S16 in the last four seasons (back to and including the COVID year, which was the first year I'd have considered Illinois "back").

Izzo (#3), Cronin (tied for #9), Musselman (also tied for #9), and Dana Altman (#12) have made more than one.

I do think our fans (especially those who lived through the two truly great 5-7 year stretches in our program's modern history in the 80s and early 2000s) tend to overestimate how easy it is to make the second weekend, and underestimate how much luck is involved in that even for the very top echelon of college coaches.  Totally ignoring the huge changes happening throughout the sport right now.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2023, 04:04:11 PM by spark mandrill »
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Lkdog

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2023, 04:43:04 PM »
You might want to take a look at Loyalty Recruiting thread today.
Even the Insider homers are stating the reality of the pressure and expectations and what happens if we fall short again this year.
May not be fair but it is what it is.....
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illiniray

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2023, 05:10:52 PM »
Correction

Per NG: "Academic year doesn't end until this week at Oregon for Quincy Guerrier."

He was enrolled in classes there, but not summer classes. He is finishing up the spring term.

Harmon does still need more credits to graduate
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FaninCa

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2023, 06:26:47 PM »
This is Underwood's 7th year at Illinois.  The excuses need to stop.
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2023, 06:56:23 PM »
Quote from: Lkdog on June 15, 2023, 04:43:04 PM
You might want to take a look at Loyalty Recruiting thread today.
Even the Insider homers are stating the reality of the pressure and expectations and what happens if we fall short again this year.
May not be fair but it is what it is.....

I already mentioned the blue blood expectation without the blue blood history or advantages, yeah.  I'd imagine it's a negative among coaches.  Or at least coaches are probably more wary than they have been previously of that, especially given how nice and cushy some of those top mid major jobs are.

Our fans are a double-edged sword, for sure.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2023, 06:58:31 PM by spark mandrill »
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2023, 06:57:06 PM »
Quote from: FaninCa on June 15, 2023, 06:26:47 PM
This is Underwood's 7th year at Illinois.  The excuses need to stop.

Don't think anyone's making excuses, I just don't believe in distorting and revising history to justify firing a guy who's been pretty damn good here.  I don't understand the need to act like he's a complete disaster when any objective assessment would be far from that.
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ILLINICHIEF

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2023, 07:08:37 PM »
Getting a good feeling on this one....

https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/antonio-reeves-is-currently-taking-summer-classes-at-illinois-state/

Williams I believe will end up having issues, or no immediate play with injury (pushed out 1 year or not at all), Harmon comes still ASSUMING he gets credits needed, and we snag Reeves to give us the punch we need of Reeves/TSJ/Hawkins and a Top 10 ranking with our depth.
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ILLINICHIEF

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2023, 07:14:41 PM »
DeKwon Brown from Peoria going to Simeon next year....6'3 PG RayJ wanna be? Good player, we will see, C0-MVP at last years Pango camp.
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FaninCa

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2023, 08:21:10 PM »
Quote from: spark mandrill on June 15, 2023, 06:57:06 PM
Don't think anyone's making excuses, I just don't believe in distorting and revising history to justify firing a guy who's been pretty damn good here.  I don't understand the need to act like he's a complete disaster when any objective assessment would be far from that.

Just think top ten pay should equal top 10 results.  Also seems that he has lots of NIL support. 

No doubt Underwood can make this a perennial tourney team.  However, seems doubtful he can make a deep tourney run and justify his pay.
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Jobu

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2023, 08:40:06 AM »
Uh oh. Here comes 10 more pages about how all Illini fans demand sweet 16s every year.
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FaninCa

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2023, 08:49:33 AM »
Quote from: Jobu on June 16, 2023, 08:40:06 AM
Uh oh. Here comes 10 more pages about how all Illini fans demand sweet 16s every year.

A Sweet 16 every 3 years would be nice..
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spark mandrill

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Re: 2023-2024 Next Year Roster Expectations
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2023, 08:55:44 AM »
But again, half of the top-15 highest paid coaches haven't made a S16 in the last four seasons - Underwood is by no means alone in that.  It's just not as simple as you make it seem.  If it was the best coaches would make it more consistently, and they don't really.

Top-10 results overall?  Or only in the single elimination tournament?  He may not be exactly top-10 but surely taken as a whole, Underwood's been among the top-15 or -20 coaches in terms of results in the last 4 seasons.

88-40 (54-25 in a high major conference), a conference title and a conference tournament title.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2023, 08:58:13 AM by spark mandrill »
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